Selling doesn’t have to feel awkward or pushy. In this episode, we talk about how photographers can turn sales into conversations by building real relationships, showing up consistently, and being clear about what they offer. We cover sales language, asking for the sale without pressure, helping clients understand their “why,” and preparing them for the process so nothing feels surprising later. When trust comes first and expectations are clear, selling stops feeling like selling and starts feeling like good client care.

Foreign.

And take your photography to the next level with your favorite cowgirls with cameras.

Kara, Kim and Phyllis.

Welcome to the Cowgirls with Cameras podcast.

I'm Kim with Kim Beer Photography and be more business.

I'm Kara with Fast Horse Photography.

And I'm Phyllis with Phyllis Burchette photo.

Hello, good afternoon and hi.

Long time no say.

Yeah, hi.

We're back to that lovely afternoon recording time when we always mess things up.

I don't know what you're talking about.

Yeah, really, Kim.

Never happened.

Speak for yourself.

Never happens.

Never happens.

So what have you guys been up to lately?

Oh, I have been editing photo albums like crazy and a keepsake box and.

And graduation announcements because my clients are equestrian.

Seniors are doing their thing right now because it's post holiday and they're kind of feeling the crunch because we're on the downhill slide to the end of school season.

So that's what I've been doing.

Sessions and product editing, delivery, that sort of thing.

So all good stuff.

For just a moment in there, you said graduation announcements and I was like, oh my God, did I miss Easton getting medals?

No.

No, thank God.

But it won't be that many years and you'll be doing his GR Ashton's announcements.

Why are you bringing this up?

He's not even 13 yet.

He's still my little baby.

Let's not go there yet.

He sounds like a man, though.

Well, she's already not feeling that good.

Do you have to bring that up too, Kim?

Right, way to read it.

Just rub all the salts all in my wounds.

Oh.

What about you, Phyllis?

What have you been up to?

You know, I haven't been up to anything much different.

I've still been doing a lot of office work and then braving the cold and just hoping that our power stays on and taking my dog out for walks in the cold and enjoying the kind of the snow.

We didn't have a ton, but we had about an inch.

So yeah, that's about it.

Getting ready for spring.

Two weeks.

Two weeks will be in sunny Arizona.

So yeah, I'm actually looking forward to our Arizona warmth.

Although I had a panicked moment because I was scrolling through believe it or not Facebook, which I should not have been doing.

And this is a reason why I should not be doing it.

They had had a long range forecast prediction for 17 February, which is the day I leave to go to Arizona, that Kansas City was going to get 23 inches of snow.

That has to be some kind of joke, right?

Well, I'm like, oh, My word.

What if.

23 inches of snow.

I'm not making it to the airport, so I am sincerely hoping they're wrong.

Is that, like, normal for y' all.

To get that much snow?

I have lived here for my entirety of what will be in a few short weeks.

60 years.

Never have we gotten more than 18 inches of snow.

I think you need to leave the.

Day before, let me tell you.

If that actually comes up on a forecast, I'm canceling my plane reservation, renting a truck, and heading to Arizona before the weather gets bad.

Oh, my gosh.

And also stocking Nick up with every supply that he could possibly have because that means no one is leaving this farm.

Honestly, it snowed six inches and we didn't leave for a week.

But it's not that we couldn't have left.

We could have.

We just didn't want to.

But 23 inches would definitely put a damper in anybody doing anything.

And not to mention, you want to talk about Shetland ponies in Florida?

Imagine Shetland ponies trying to get through 23 inches of snow.

I have, like 10 of them things.

I think they probably are pretty comfortable in that level of snow.

Like, they're so woolly.

My ponies, the Shetlands who live here, the two that live in my front yard.

Her ponies are old, too.

My ponies are old.

These two are in their teens, late teens.

It's not the cold.

It would be having to get through.

Having to walk through it.

Yeah.

But these dorks, we built them.

We took the former cowgirls with cameras booth, tent, which had gotten kind of stained in the shipping in the years.

And I set it up for them so they'd have a place to get in and out of this last snow.

And they have a nice dry place in there because we've purposely kept it that way for them.

And they are both laying in the snow.

They go lay in the snow.

They have a choice.

They can lay in warm, cushy straw and hay under their little enclosure, or they can lay out in the snow in 10 degrees weather.

And guess where they're at.

They're in the snow.

That's what they do.

They're happy.

Little be happy.

They're happy.

Okay, well, let's get on to our topic, because we probably shared enough about Shetland ponies and various other things.

So today's episode is about strategic marketing for photographers who hate selling, which I don't understand why people hate selling, because I actually really like it.

I don't like selling.

Yeah.

But if you think about it, as what we share is so valuable and it changes lives, it makes a difference to people, and for all that is holy, it is fun.

Why are we down on selling like it's actually what we love to do?

Everybody wins in this situation.

Everyone wins.

The clients get gorgeous photos.

No matter whether they're commercial clients or people hanging them on their walls or people getting portraits, it's a win for them and it's a win for us because we get to do something we absolutely adore.

So why are we fighting selling it?

Yeah, it's the process that trips most people up.

And what we're going to talk about today are some strategies that you can utilize to kind of get over that point.

So my strategy that I'm going to offer you comes from my book, the Little Book of Big Sales Moves.

I was wondering what book you were running off to get.

Yes, it is the book.

She just happens to have a book here.

I just happen to have a book all about this.

And it's really short.

And who was that book by, Kim?

It's by me.

Oh, really?

It's only 95 pages.

It's not a long book.

But one of the things I suggest in here, and it's my number one sales move to make selling not feel like selling, and that is three thoughtful questions.

So rather than trying to deliver a pitch, which just feels way awkward, and you know what?

I know most of the people who listen to this podcast are women, and no offense to you if you're a man listening to it, but women don't deliver sales pitches the same way.

We don't sell that way.

We sell by talking.

We sell by sharing with each other.

And it feels unnatural for us to pitch a sales pitch to somebody.

So if that feels unnatural to you, stop doing it.

Start asking questions.

Come up with three thoughtful questions that you can ask people in order to initiate a sales conversation.

And guess what happens.

First of all, you make it all about them, which is, let me tell you, the number one sales tactic you could ever use.

People never get tired of talking about themselves or solving their own problems.

That's the truth.

And if you just happen to be part of that solution, that's great.

And it also helps you build a relationship, which Phyllis is going to talk about here in a moment.

It helps you set a solid foundation for the entire experience, which we talked about in our last episode, as you are the experience that you're having.

And it is what, moving forward is going differentiate you from AI and make it so that despite what happens in the world, that experience is what people are going to want to come by.

So let me give you an example of this in my own past niche of working with commercial clients.

So let's say I ran into a small business owner who has an equine based business.

Rather than saying, hey, I'm an equine photographer and I do commercial photography for small businesses like yours, and here's my portfolio, look at it.

And here's my price list, which is another thing that's a whole sticky subject, right?

Instead of doing that, what I'm going to do is say, you know, where in your business do you feel like you're not fully getting your message across?

Guess what happens?

I get a ton of information about that business right from that one question.

It shows I have interest in their business.

Not only that, it saves me time later on because now I have an idea of where we're going with that.

The business owner can share about a problem that they need to solve that I can help be a solution for.

And that one question will lead you to the other two.

Because in that conversation, that individual will share things with you about their business and about their imaging needs that you can insert yourself into and ask another question that basically leads them to your business as a solution.

And it's just as simple as that.

Take an interest in what the person that you're talking to is needing or wanting to do, how you can help them solve that particular problem.

Get curious and let them sell themselves.

If you hate selling, let them do the work.

It's so true because I get on the phone like for my initial contacts with people, and I have this urge to like, like I have, I know what I need to say and I know how I want to say it.

And I always say it kind of the same way.

And I just want to get through it.

And I have found that when I find myself doing that, I'm losing them.

Like, I need to shut up, ask questions, let them talk, and then quit worrying so much about like getting everything out and spend more time like letting them tell me their story.

Become kind of invested in their own way that way.

So, and this is where you guys who are introverts have a superpower.

I mean, I am an extrovert.

I always want to insert myself into the conversation and answer things.

Introverts naturally wait for other people to say, and honestly, if you're doing a good job of saying selling and you're using conversational selling, you should not be doing most of the talking.

Your client should and they're, they're selling themselves.

And like I said, it really sets you up for a much better relationship with them moving forward.

And so my two big takeaways.

First of all, quit hating on the selling because you're just doing nothing but helping yourself and them.

And second, stop pitching and start having conversations with your clients.

All right, I'm off my soapbox.

Who's next?

I think I'm next.

I didn't mean that I hate selling, it's just that that's not what this is perfect for me because if selling feels uncomfortable, then you should focus on building relationships instead.

And that's perfect for me because that's what I think I already do because I'm not.

I don't consider myself a salesperson at all.

So yeah, if selling feels uncomfortable, just focus on building relationships.

Your trust will grow and when people are ready, they will already know who to call.

They'll know where to find you.

Good marketing isn't pushing people to choose you.

It's it's showing your work in a way that makes the right people say, yeah, that's my person.

You need to figure out who those people are and hang out where they hang out and show up as yourself.

That's the biggest advice I can give you right there is to show up as you.

Most people hire you after they've watched you quietly show up.

Share your work.

Engage.

I don't care whether it's in social media or going to events or showing up where they hang up and care.

That consistency builds familiarity, which in turn builds trust with people in general.

I think being generous with your knowledge, encouraging others, celebrating your peers and your clients and given value without immediately asking for something in return is really important.

Respond thoughtfully to comments, send thank you messages or notes and check in with past clients.

This is a hard one for me, but remembering names is a big one.

Notice and repeat commenters Treat your DMs like conversations, not transactions, and that's building a relationship with that person.

Not as a client really, just as another person.

Think about community and not audience.

People hire photographers they feel seen and known by, which I can see that over many years of doing this, I feel that strongly.

Let your work speak before your pricing Selling feels hard when people don't yet understand the value of what you've got to offer them.

Curiosity does build relationships.

People lean in when they feel invited, not pressured, and be human when things aren't perfect, which we know they're not perfect a lot.

Or at least for me, they're not perfect a lot.

Authenticity built builds Trust faster than that Perfect polish.

Stay visible without always asking.

You don't have to be allowed to be effective.

You just have to be clear.

You don't have to close the deal every time you show up.

Sometimes the goal is just to stay at the top of their minds.

I think that's really important is just to be right at the top of their minds.

Even though you haven't closed any kind of deal with them, they're going to find you because they already have that relationship with you.

That's ideally what social media and email marketing are supposed to do, is to keep that relationship A warm and fuzzy, B supportive and C top of mind.

So people do tend to forget.

Yeah, but if you're there and present with them and they're connected with you and that relationship has a good bridge, then that type of marketing is super, super successful.

It's what differentiates the people who are truly successful at social media and email market, the ones who take a stab at it and don't make many conversions.

So I want to talk about this from the perspective of like, when I first started in this work, I was terrified to ask for money.

I was terrified to like have prices that felt like so much higher than anything that I would ever pay myself for the most part.

And that was really scary to me.

I had worked in like a sales type position for most of my life in terms of I took money from people, I helped them find the things that they need and I, you know, rang up their sales.

So I knew how to ask for a sale.

But the problem was is I had never done that with something that was like, me as the brand, me as the product.

So that was a really scary transition for me.

So when I think about it, I think about it in terms of my job is not to sell people things that they don't want.

Like, that literally sounds like my nightmare.

It's really to help them understand what they're here for in the first place and then make sure that nothing about the process or the options that are coming their way catches them off guard down the line.

So for me, selling only feels uncomfortable when the client's why is still fuzzy.

And what that means is if they don't really know why they're having a photography session, for example, then they're not going to understand why that matters to them and that every decision down the line later starts to feel heavier and heavier than it needs to be.

And it gets harder because they don't really know why they're there.

So a lot of my clients Will reach out with what I would call surface reasons for wanting a photography session originally.

So they might say things like I just want some photos or I just love some pictures of my horse or with my horse.

And I think that's a good starting point.

But that's not really the reason that they're there oftentimes.

So my job really early on in the beginning stages of the experience that I provide is to ask a few intentional questions.

And Kim talks a little bit about questions and getting people talking already that will help them figure out their reason that they're really here for themselves.

So for example, I might ask a potential client who reached out for equine photography, I might say, why have you decided to have an equine photography session now?

And I'll ask now because I think that the reason that they picked up the phone finally is the reason that you want to talk about.

Because they might have been saying for years that they want to do this.

They oh, I would love to have a session with my horse and I would love to get this done.

But what's the, what was the triggering moment that made you pick up the phone?

Because I think once someone understands why they really scheduling their session, everything else is going to get easier, Decisions are going to start to make more sense, their priorities are going to get clear and I don't have to convince them of anything later on because we're always coming back to the same reason that they reached out in the first place.

And I do that throughout.

Like all of my process, we come back to the reason that they reached out.

The other piece of this in terms of preparation, I think is that, that I think a lot of discomfort around selling actually comes from surprise when people don't know what's coming next.

Maybe the prices feel scarier, decisions feel have to start to feel rushed.

So for me, I talk about my process from the very beginning and all the options, including pricing, all the way through.

And I don't do it in a pushy way.

I just do it in a steady this is the way that it is very normal.

This is what my clients always do type of way.

Because people want to feel, they want to feel normal and they want to feel like they understand the process and that they have time to process it all along the way.

So that like every touch point that I have with them is doing just a little bit of work in terms of like pushing that ball towards the final moment where we're asking for the sale.

So things like my website, my social media pages, my creative consultation and even during the photography session itself, I'm helping them understand what's possible long before they're ever asked to sit down and pick a product that has a price point attached to it where I'm going to ask them to make a payment.

So by the time that it's actually time for them to make the purchase, nothing feels like new or unexpected.

The conversation feels familiar, I don't think it feels awkward.

And that's really the goal.

I don't want the sell to feel like I'm like flipping a switch.

I want it to feel like the natural next step.

Because nothing feels worse than when you're sitting with people that have not, you know, you've and you've not been clear with them about your price point or your process or there's an expectation of a sale at the end of this and they look at your prices and they are shell shocked and they have to think to themselves, I need to figure out how to get out of this situation so that I can really think through what I want to do.

No, I want them coming to the end of the road knowing and excited to like make a purchase and with a budget and like ready to spend money that they are expecting to spend.

So I feel like when clients know while they're here why they are here and what to expect selling stops feeling like selling.

It just feels like being a good guide through the process instead of an icky salesperson.

And that's really what my goal is.

And that is how me as a somewhat introvert and as a person that doesn't want to be a pushy salesperson, that's just, that's how it feels good for me.

Exactly.

I think that is a great, great statement.

I think everything in this episode is very aligned and about building that relationship that makes selling not feel like selling.

It is helping, it is serving and that feels a lot better than the selling proposition.

I do want to add two little tips to my part of it.

One, Ask open ended questions.

When you ask questions, do not ask questions that can be answered with a yes or a no.

And also do as Kira said, ask for the stale.

But don't ask, are you ready to buy?

Or can I book this?

Do not ask for permission.

Instead, say if you're booking like a portrait session like this, so would March 15th or the 18th feel better to you?

Right?

And let them determine.

Or if they're looking at a piece of art, say something along the lines of would you like that for me to deliver that and install it or would you like to just take it home.

Right.

So they have to answer or choose or give you a response.

And people often do need a little bit of encouragement to close the sale.

They don't expect to say, yes, I'll take it.

And some people are that direct.

But a lot of people struggle with saying, I want it.

And so as the person who runs the business, you need to be a good guide, a good server, and a good steward and facilitate that conclusion for them.

So I do, do encourage you to do that.

I always have that conversation with my sales.

During my sales sessions, I'll say something towards kind of what I feel like is the end of the sale.

Okay, do we need anything else for grandma, or do we have to take.

You know, do we have someone at the barn?

We need to make sure we have a gift, and I'll ask that.

And once I feel like their list is done, then I will literally just say, okay, perfect.

Let me get this added up for you and get you a total.

And you just let me know how you plan on paying for that today.

And I mean, it's just done and it's.

It.

You start to practice it.

You know, we've talked about practice what you want to say, and it just gets more and more comfortable, you know, rolling off the tongue, so.

Exactly.

All right.

Did we wrap it up, guys?

Is there anything else we need to add?

Phyllis, do you have anything you want to add?

You're just grinning over there.

Remember, I don't have to sell anymore.

So must be nice.

I mean, they all come to me.

Well, you've built your relationships.

You did exactly what you taught people to do.

You built relationships so people come to you.

Well, I don't have a portrait business either.

Let's clarify that.

So it doesn't matter.

Yeah.

For what I do, yes.

They come to me.

Yes.

Yeah.

All right, Well, I guess that's it for us today then.

So please head over to cowgirlswithcameras.com check out our upcoming events.

I believe we still have space at our cottonwood ranch event in August.

Yes.

And we've still got a couple spots left at our trappers lake lodge event.

Our trappers lake event in Colorado in October.

Is that right?

Nope.

It's late September.

End of September.

Okay.

The very end of September.

The most beautiful place in the world to see beautiful fall color and horses.

So we'd love for you guys to join us at one of those events.

You can also find us in our online community at calgars with cameras.com community, where we've got some really fun upcoming live events that you could pop into and just hang out with other equine photographers.

And then, last but not least, we're on all the socials.

We're on Instagram, Tik Tok and Facebook.

You can find us there as well.

So stop in and say hi.

Thanks for listening to this episode of Cowgirls With Cameras.

Don't let the laughter and learning stop here.

Join our community on social media and be sure to visit our website for more opportunities to fulfill your photography goals.

Head to cowgirlswithcameras.com that's cowgirlswithcameras dot com See you next time.