Vinny Mauri, hailing from Howland, Ohio, has made an indelible mark in the realm of marathon running by achieving the fastest debut for an American with an astonishing time of 2:05:53. This episode delves into the nuances of his remarkable journey, exploring the circumstances surrounding his marathon debut at the Toledo Marathon. Vinny shares insights about his preparation, training philosophy, and the pivotal moments that led to his unprecedented success. We discuss the mental and physical challenges of marathon running, emphasizing the importance of consistency and self-belief in the pursuit of excellence. As he prepares for future competitions, including the prestigious Chicago Marathon, Vinny's reflections offer invaluable lessons for aspiring athletes and seasoned runners alike. Vinny Mauri, a remarkable athlete from Howland, Ohio, has made headlines by completing his marathon debut in an astonishing time of 2:05:53, establishing a new record for the fastest marathon debut by an American. In a candid conversation with host Leo Kormanik on the Mind Body Marathon podcast, Vinny reflects on the tumultuous journey leading up to this historic race. Initially set to compete in Carmel, a last-minute storm forced him to switch venues to Toledo, where he ultimately triumphed against the odds. This episode not only delves into the logistics and preparation surrounding his debut but also explores the mental and physical resilience required to achieve such a feat. Vinny shares insights into his training regimen, which eschews traditional coaching in favor of self-guidance, relying on the support and advice of colleagues and friends, thereby emphasizing the importance of personal accountability and adaptability in the face of unexpected challenges. The discussion reveals his determination to exceed expectations and showcases the significance of dedication and passion in the world of competitive running, presenting an inspiring narrative for both aspiring athletes and seasoned professionals alike.

Takeaways:

• Vinny Mauri, hailing from Howland, Ohio, achieved an impressive marathon debut in 2026, finishing with a remarkable time of 2:05:53, marking the fastest debut by an American in marathon history.
• The decision to switch from the Carmel Marathon to the Toledo Marathon was influenced by a potential storm situation, showcasing Vinny's adaptability and strategic thinking in race planning.
• Throughout the episode, Vinny emphasizes the importance of self-coaching, drawing from past experiences and insights shared by colleagues and previous coaches, which ultimately contributed to his marathon success.
• Vinny's training philosophy revolves around consistency and understanding one's body, rather than solely focusing on competitors' training methods, promoting a personalized approach to running success.
• The conversation highlights the significance of nutrition in long-distance running, with Vinny sharing how he fuels his body during training, emphasizing the need for adequate caloric intake to support high mileage.
• As he prepares for future races, including the Chicago Marathon, Vinny reflects on the lessons learned from his debut and expresses a commitment to continuously adapt and refine his training strategies for optimal performance.

Foreign.

All right.

Yo, yo, everybody.

Here we are on the podcast Mind Body Marathon here with guest Vinny Mori from Howland, Ohio.

At what?

205.

53.

54.

54.

I'm sorry about that, buddy.

Yeah, we got to get specific now.

Yeah, yeah.

It was at Toledo, right?

So you were set to run.

I heard somewhere you're set to run Carmel, and at the last minute they had some storm situation or something like that, and you changed to Toledo.

Yeah, I don't know if the storms actually rolled through, but my rationale was, I mean, I went to Notre Dame for grad school, so, like, geographically I just wanted to head straight down the turnpike and see some friends, get some dinner with them, and then head down and debut in a marathon.

But I think three days before I wanted to leave got canceled, and then kind of got our back way in through our second soul Toledo with Matt Folk.

And can you imagine if Toledo had not let you in to that?

Like, you had to go the back way into the Toledo Marathon and run the fastest debut ever for an American.

Yeah.

I mean, who knows?

I mean, yeah, Best case scenario.

I'm going to call it best case.

Scenario, but I guess ultimately that kind of brings up one of the biggest questions for me was, did you like, were you like Josh Curry?

Did you know this was going to happen?

Did you kind of shot call it?

Were you like, I'm going to do something special.

I think you need to let me in.

We were definitely saying, like, I could probably run under like 212.

I mean, the whole thing started with I ran a four mile from behind our store in January, February.

And then we ran distance classic in Youngstown through Mill Creek.

Ran pretty fast there.

And from there we're like, hey, let's.

Let's do a marathon.

Like, why not?

And it was like, I don't know if it's my event.

I've never run one.

And I was like, think I can get the marathon?

I just don't know if I could.

My body can run for more than two hours.

And from there just was like, yeah, like, let's do it.

As training progressed, I was like, 216 feels definitely gettable.

And then 212 felt manageable.

And I was like, best day.

I was like, I think I can go under 210.

But of course it's just so uncharted that I didn't know.

My biggest thing is I just don't know what my body would do once you get past that two hour mark.

So it was, I think I can run a fast pace till then, but it's like, is my body just gonna shut off when I get to that point?

But you know, I mean, what's interesting though is, I mean the difference between, you know, 212 and two going under 206 is crazy.

And like what's amazing is that you're so close to two hours it almost doesn't even matter like you know, what would happen after the two hour mark at that point.

So that's kind of an incredible thing.

Now you said we earlier.

Who's that?

You're not coached by anybody, right?

No, I'm not coached by anyone.

But just honestly, coworkers, just asking people.

Yeah, coworkers, managers and just like old coaches I've had in the past.

And I was just like bouncing ideas.

I was like, I think I'm getting pretty good at running again.

Cause I took probably half a year off almost and just kind of reset and fell back in love with it and it ended up working out pretty well.

So what made you kind of want to be self coached?

I mean, was it just that you didn't want the pressure of anything and you just kind of want to do your own thing or you felt like pretty comfortable with your thought process with it?

Yeah, I really wasn't like, I guess in that whole thought, I guess idea of doing the marathon, it wasn't this professional thing.

It was just let's do it fun.

But also all I've ever known was being competitive like high school, college.

Like I was only removed from college for about six months, months at that point.

So I didn't really know how to just go run and jog around.

So I liked working out, I liked running fast.

So it was, hey, if I'm going to run, I'm going to do it on my own terms and do it the way that I enjoyed to do it.

So that is kind of where it stemmed from.

I enjoy working out, I enjoy running fast.

Even my easy days are a little bit faster than most.

So I don't think a coach would really prescribe a lot of that.

So yeah, it just kind of snowballed.

From yeah, you didn't win.

Somebody pulling the reins on you and just kind of the free of the freedom of it, which that's always something I heard about you is that like, even in high school, like you could just hammer easy days and just be fine for race day still.

Cause you obviously had success in high school and college and it's like, did you.

You know, it's funny that you had this kind of like doubt about the marathon because you always sort of had this aerobic ability to just hammer on some of those days.

Yeah, I think it's.

I think there's two rationales.

Like, it was, it was really cool like kind of finding out that I was probably over training.

So I've been running 5:30 pace, 520 pace on like up tempo runs since I was 14 years old.

So inadvertently I've been over training to the point where when I finally have the facilities to make it manageable.

I've been over training for so long, like training age at that pace, I feel like is now to the point where it's manageable.

Yeah, back then it probably wasn't.

That was why I was injury prone and not really putting things together.

But also, even in college I only maxed out at 85, maybe like 80 to 85 miles a week.

So volume wise is like a lot of the guys were running around 100, so I wasn't, definitely wasn't a really high mileage guy, but the quality of what I was doing was a lot higher.

So I mean, even right now, like the guys that are running 110, when I'm running 130, I'm probably running the same amount of time on feet as the people that are running 110.

That's actually a really good point.

And it's really wise on your part to actually recognize that fact that you probably were overrunning those early runs when you were younger and that's why you were getting injured, but now you just adapted.

Kind of reminds me a lot of like Cam's career in terms of how he.

He's operating.

Anthony Camareri, in terms of, you know, kind of being dinged up in high school and college and then just now being able to handle what is, you know, it's kind of like the engine is, has always been so good for the chassis that it's breaking it down.

And now the chassis has gotten stronger and it can handle the, the power of the engine.

But let's stick with the marathon real quick and then we'll kind of dive into some other stuff with that marathon in particular.

Toledo.

What?

Okay, so you had to have known you were going to run something special because you went out decently quick.

So you kind of just Started and you're like, all right, let's just go and just see how this feels.

And then you just held it.

Is that.

Yeah.

I mean, I kind of all of my runs if I'm outside.

Of course, when I'm on the treadmill, it's a steady pace the whole time.

My body just naturally progresses when I run.

Like, if I'm starting out, I'm usually at 6 flat to start.

And if I'm not really putting a governor on myself, I'm getting down to 5, 10 if I'm going over 10 miles.

So I knew at least, hey, go out something comfortable, bare minimum.

If I like relative perceived effort.

If I keep it the same, my body will probably progress and run 10 seconds faster per 10 miles.

So what did that look like early on?

Like, for the first five, I mean, I was.

If I had a race plan, which I really didn't, it was like, hey, go out in 505.

Okay, 505.

505.

Maybe 10k later, try and get under 5 flat, 455 and then 450 to finish.

Just on the day.

Body felt great.

I mean, perceived effort.

I thought it was 5:05.

I only had like average pace and current pace on my watch.

So, like, I didn't have any time, any distance or anything.

Cause I was like, I don't think it's necessary.

I just want to execute.

Just progressing faster throughout the race.

What I thought 505 was, was end up being 455 and then just.

And then from there progressing down.

Exactly.

So yeah.

And the funny thing was is, like I knew like four.

It was never going through my, my mind.

But like, I knew the fastest.

The fastest I ever like thought about running was like 4:56, which was what it would have been like under 210.

Yeah.

So like anything under that, I was like, I saw my average pace, but I'd never really put two and two together that it was going to be, hey, every two seconds is like a minute.

But I was like, I'd never really did the math.

I was like, oh, I might be running like 2:09 right now.

Yeah.

So I guess that's my next question.

Nice segue into that.

Because I'm thinking like, at some point, I mean, I can remember like when I qualified for the trials at ground malls, like, there was a moment where I got to a certain mile mark and I was like doing the math in my head.

I'm like, I got it, I got it.

Like, I just have to see it.

Through.

Did you ever, like, were you just kind of having that moment where you started doing the math?

You hit mile 23, 24 and you're like, I'm freaking going to run 206.

Like, did that come to any sort of realization?

I, again, I didn't know, like, I didn't know what time was on the clock at all.

And also, like, you know how the marathon is.

Like, I could be running 26.7 miles.

So, like, that was.

I was like, I just got to stay on the gas.

I think once I got to 18, like from like 13 to 18, I was starting to like, I was feeling really good, but I'm like, if I need to, I feel like I'm running fast enough where if I need to take 5k off or a couple miles, yeah, 20 seconds slower, I feel like I'm running fast enough where it's fine.

I can regroup and rejuvenate myself to like, progress throughout the rest of the race.

Everyone says there's that like 20 mile, like the 20 mile block or whatever.

I think I hit mile night.

I saw the 19 mile mark and then it felt like it was like 15 minutes before the 20 mile mark came.

And it was.

I was like, yeah, I think I hit that wall.

Like, I don't know where it is like this.

It's.

I didn't feel physically bad, but I was like, I just feel like I've been running for so long.

And then I saw the 21 mile mark.

I was like, oh, well, I've been running for two miles instead of one.

So that's probably why.

Yeah, felt like it was two miles because it was.

But yeah, I mean, past, past 22.

That was where I was like, okay, like, I can do.

I can do this for 20 more minutes.

Like, I was like, I don't know what I'm running.

I don't know what the pace is going to be.

But I was like, I don't need to run any faster.

I was like, whatever this effort is, I just need to keep it for 24, 20 more minutes.

The finishing video of you is so cool for two reasons.

One, because you see how unprofessional the race is and I'm not ding in Toledo.

Trust me.

It's a good kind of mid tier Ohio race.

It's awesome.

And it's obviously flat and it's obviously fast, but, you know, it's not like a beautifully catered finish where, you know, you took that hard right or the hard left and there's like that polo was really close to you, and it was, like, kind of a jank.

Just finish.

But it was so cool that they got that drone footage of you.

It was great.

And then you finished, and you're just, like, filled with energy.

Like, T. Clark came over to you, and you were, like, going crazy, and it just was, like, such a cool thing to see.

You just, like, not just spilled out on the ground like a glass of water.

Like, you were totally upright, totally animated.

Yeah, I mean, I. I think that was.

The beauty of not having the time on the watch is because, like, if you would have seen me 6 minutes earlier when I hit the 40k mark, I was like, I don't know how I'm gonna put six minutes together to get to that finish line, but I'm like, hey, one minute of time.

And then there's all those turns, those last.

That last half mile, there are a lot more turns.

That's what I'm saying.

I never even saw it.

Yeah.

Like.

Yeah.

And that kind of reminds me of.

And Jared, you did this with grandma's.

It's like, it's straight, and then the last mile, there's five turns, and it's, like, terrible to make somebody turn that many times in the last mile of a mar because you just want to go in a straight line.

Yeah.

I think that was the beauty of.

We were just talking about the bike trail earlier.

It's like, it was, like, so great just having that, okay, you.

You can run.

Really?

I think it was at 22 miles, you had that for about 5k.

So I was like, okay, at least I have this bike trail to just turn off my brain and just not.

Not pick up anything.

I was like, I know.

I'm not gonna get greedy.

I was like.

I felt like I could go a little bit more.

Thank God I didn't, because if.

I think if there was two more minutes left of that race, it would have been a little bit of a hobble in.

But, yeah, coming into that.

The stadium, like, I remember, like, glancing at the clock.

I'm like, is that a 209?

Is that a 208?

And I saw, like, 205 on the board.

I'm like, all right.

It was like a.

Like a.

Kind of when you jump in a.

Ice bathroom in the drone video.

Yeah, exactly.

So I can't tell you how many patients I showed that drone video to.

You finishing.

It was so epic.

My dad watches every day still.

Yeah.

Good man.

Now, here's an interesting question.

Do you think that you.

Do you think you could have put Together a similar effort like that if you were in a competitive race versus like a time trial effort.

Have you thought about that?

I think, I think it's Chicago that's going to be the question.

I don't think it would have been the best option for my first marathon along with everyone else's first marathon.

I feel like you have to set a limit and I think that's what I did is like at least I know what I can do without people around me.

I had people around me for 25 or I didn't.

I was alone for 25 point like 8 miles.

So knowing that I can do that alone without pacers with only four bottle stops, it was definitely a good peace of mind that I think I'm gonna take to Chicago.

Like at least I know I'll have one more resource or two more resources or at least someone to take the reins for half marathon.

I don't.

Yeah, I don't know if I don't know a lot of marathoning at all until this year.

But I think like that mid tier marathon as a first one was quite honestly best case scenario.

Yeah, I couldn't agree more.

You know, the advantage of obviously a race like Chicago is like you just like tuck in people, cut the wind, people do it.

But East Africans like to race chaotic.

They like to put in crazy surges.

They like to make things very hard on Europeans and Americans because we're very good with pacing and you know, that kind of development of things.

So there could be a lot of crazy jostling, a lot of things happening.

And you know, how are you kind of planning on just like going to just running your own race and just kind of doing your own thing.

Like what's some of your strategies about Chicago?

Yeah, I haven't thought a ton about strategy yet, to be honest.

I even take like training week by week and I don't really even.

We're still quite a ways out.

So.

Yeah, so it's like I think I'll figure out my fitness and what my attributes will be.

I think I'll be ready for darn near anything.

But also taking with a grain of salt, like if I've never run a 4:15 mile in the middle of like a long run, I don't think I'm gonna do that in the marathon.

Like also if you're gonna run 4:15 for the last 10k, cool, you're gonna run 156.

But I'll sit there at like, I'll sit there at 4:40 or 4:30.

And ideally you'll come back.

But if you don't, then phenomenal.

You're gonna have.

It's gonna be one of the best marathons of all time.

So.

Yeah, and that's great because, like, I love hearing you say that because, you know, there's so many life cycles to a marathon.

Like, you know, people that have never run them or kind of more novice.

I always tell them it's like, there's some marathons, and you probably have this at Toledo, where there's moments where you feel amazing and there's moments where you just don't.

And you can't let your highs get too high and your lows get too low.

You just have to stay balanced.

You have to stay concentrating, and you just gotta just stick with your game plan and your rhythm of things.

You know, it's interesting, too, because when you get to, like, you know that 13 to 18 mile window that we were just talking about that you brought up earlier?

It's like, that's such a wonderful spot in the race, and it's always going to be a comfortable thing for you.

Not just you in general, but just people that are running marathons.

Mainly because you start to lose so much like, blood, volume of sweat that you're lighter, actually.

But it's before it really starts to dig into your deep glycogen stores.

So that's why you feel that, because you're actually slightly lighter.

And then you really start to get that glycogen rub, which is what hits at 20.

So that's kind of some of the logic as to why that happens.

So if it happens in Chicago, you know, like, just know that Chinatown's coming, you're gonna get through it.

Oh, yeah.

I haven't even looked in the course yet, so we'll find that out.

I know it's flat around that period.

It gets quiet.

Okay.

You know, and it gets quiet, you start to go south.

Isn't that true?

Like, it kind of gets a little bit quiet.

Jared just did it last year.

And then it's like at that point, like, you just still got to stay with your game plan, just kind of roll with it.

So.

But you.

You kind of mentioned me earlier, you're not intending to race before Chicago.

I don't think so.

I. I think if the stars align and something pops up, maybe.

I didn't really race anything.

I didn't race anyone before that.

Like, I even.

Like, the half marathon I did was just a solo one, which was also definitely harder than the marathon.

That was an amazing effort.

Yeah.

Through mill Creek.

There, There is nothing in that marathon that was as hard as like the last two miles of the 2.8 mile half marathon.

Yes.

Yeah.

Okay, so you ran through Mill Creek and you ran what, 62, 60.

So it was a little bit short.

The turnaround, just the cone wasn't as far as it should have been, but it was, it was a lot.

I mean, there was never a point in the marathon where I felt like I did that last, like even half, the last half mile, that half marathon.

I was like, I've never like gone to a race and been like, yeah, I have.

Like, I was like, I'm just gonna have to like, stop.

If you've ever run through Mill Creek, it's.

It's pretty brutal.

Yeah, she's brutal.

She has some teeth on her.

So kind of expanding out a little bit.

Do you see yourself as a marathoner now?

Is that kind of how you, how you identify yourself as a runner?

Yeah, I was like in the last block, I was like, I like, I can run this marathon, but I feel like I can run like a 350 low mile, like in training.

I think I've transitioned away from that and just like kind of taken the reins on.

Yeah, this, this whole marathon thing.

I'm gonna throw all my eggs in that basket because I selfishly enough and very.

I've just shown myself that I'm really good at it.

And I think this is what I've been meant to do.

Yeah.

Not saying I want to.

I don't want to do anything else, but yeah, I think the marathoning is really cool.

Well, I saw you at, at Cleveland, you had kind of mentioned earlier in that.

Or at that, at that event, like maybe even throwing your hat into the ring with like a 50k at some point and just kind of tinkering with that.

Yeah.

Is that still something that you kind of years down the road?

Like, it would be fun.

I think around there was when I had like a six week block.

I just finished it up two weeks ago, two or three weeks ago of like really long, long run, really long double threshold session on Tuesday.

And I ran like 29 miles, like I think the day before the, the Cleveland Marathon.

And I was going to watch like some friends and actually my cousin and her fiance now.

So.

I was like kind of all hyped up about it, but I'm like, yeah, I think that might have to wait a couple years.

But because I think the marathon is just such a fun distance.

Yeah, and you know I always heard Vigil say, Terrence Mahone would say this Vigil and some other coaches, they would always say they, they would track their athletes to really, really peak in the marathon, about six or seven of them in.

And that's like once you've really dialed in nutrition, dialed in pacing, dialed in balancing pacing and racing, which is unique thing which obviously like racing the Olympics or something like that would be markedly different experience than just like time trialing Chicago of course.

So but like really kind of honing in on that and being able to compete at that level.

So it's like you, you kind of just want to just make sure that that whole projection towards that, you know, those six, seven kind of marathons is, is ultimately where you're really digging in and getting after it.

Yeah, I mean that was my biggest, like we talked about that two hour mark.

Like I've last block I only went over two hours, maybe three times.

So I knew like I can do it.

I went to 2 hours and 15 minutes once.

I was like, okay, my body can at least run for 2 hours and 15 minutes.

Can it run fast on race day?

Probably.

I don't know where effort wise that stands, but that was my rationale coming into this block of.

I had six weeks of 26 plus mile long runs back to back with 35 to 40 miles on every Tuesday with double workouts.

So I'm like, okay, I think I've shown my body that okay, I can consistently do two hour plus efforts.

I mean back to back weeks.

Of course intensity and relative receive effort is going to be a lot higher on race day, but at least I'm not going into there.

Like I wasn't scared but it's just like I just, it's just no man's land.

It's like okay, I've been there every week at least twice.

So do you, do you have any intent to do something like Connor Mance or something like that where he does maybe get to the track trials and then obviously gets to the marathon trials and tries to really challenge himself in both of those.

Do you have any, do you have, do you want to go to the 10k?

You want to go to the 5k?

Do you want to try to go that route in another season coming up or.

Yeah, I mean I would, I would love to run another 5k.

I would love to run another 10k.

I mean the people that I'm going to be racing against in Chicago have PBS in the 5K.

30, 40, 50 Seconds faster than mine.

My only.

I Guess drawback with it is I was very injury prone in college.

I don't know if it was because like even the last two years it was my hips, I was like.

I don't know if it was from the turns on the track.

Especially at Notre Dame, we were in the indoor track doing all of our threshold, even long runs indoors.

So I don't know if the turns bothered me a lot even in training.

Okay.

If you're gonna race on a track, you have to train on a track as well to an extent.

So right now I'm a little bit hesitant of getting back into it, but I think if I can stay healthy long enough and try and naturally progress into that, then possibly.

But I just.

The road to.

You can.

Yeah, it is.

I bet you could just rip a fast 5k though, even off the training you're doing now, like 5k or 10k.

Definitely a 10k.

I mean, I could probably PB in the 5k, definitely the 10k, but like I can PB in the 5k and 10k probably this weekend.

But I just don't know if it would.

It's funny, it's like I was talking to people like whatever I run is like.

But is it even gonna come close to what I just ran in the marathon?

So I don't know.

It's a weird spot.

Yeah.

Getting back to that hard nose track racing though, do you kind of miss that?

I miss it, but I also do not miss it in this life.

It's like, it was really fun to going.

I think the thing I miss is going with teammates in those tracks, travel trips, like those are things that I'll remember for the rest of my life.

I just think that how we were talking about earlier, like how I've been.

I've just inadvertently been training at this zone for the marathon for so long that I just don't.

I didn't realize at the time.

I just don't think I was training well enough for the track.

I mean, if I would change things up, then probably I just.

I mean, 5k Hertz, 3k Hertz mile, Hertz 800's okay.

It's short enough, you can get through.

But yeah, all those shorter ones definitely hurt a lot longer than the Longer ones.

I would say that if I was looking at your shrava, just kind of looking at what you do and knowing what I know about kind of how some of the old school East Africans train.

It's very similar where you kind of just volume, just kind of those gentle hammers, like nothing too outrageous, but just like a lot of good volume.

A lot of good, you know, hard aerobic work and dipping into a little bit of anaerobic, but just like time on your feet and just really getting efficient there.

Is that something that inspired you or is that just because it comes natural to you?

I have not looked at anyone's training plans.

I don't know like what any training philosophies are.

My whole thing.

I was even talking to coach Neil from Notre Dame, I think two weeks ago on vacation, about a down week, because I have, I. I hadn't taken a down week yet.

I was on vacation.

I'd like to enjoy my time there, spend time on the beach, have some drinks with my family and just not have to worry about running 130 miles that week.

So our thing was like, okay, we can.

There's volume and there's intensity.

I was like, I feel like intensity.

Yeah, it'll take a little bit of a hit, but like volume is going to take the bigger hit.

Since I've been doing so much intensity, I don't want to just go out there and my cadence be super low and be inefficient.

Like even today, I think the first three minutes of the run sometimes feel clunky.

But after that, when I'm running efficient, it just gets easier throughout the run.

If I'm running, I mean, easy pace for me right now is like 5, 40 to 6 flat.

If I go out there and run 7 minute pace, I'll probably feel horrible the whole time because that zone just even from when I was 14, I haven't been.

I was never running that pace.

Even with my teammates.

We'd go out there and just like feel like my cadence is just so off and not efficient.

So I'm like, how I structure my easy day is like, what is the slowest I can run and also still be efficient doing it.

So.

Because I feel like efficiency in the marathon is the biggest thing.

And also what keeps you healthy too.

I mean, how much in high school and college did P S people bust your chops from one step in a minute since it was so a lot, a lot.

And it was like always a funny, like, oh, he doesn't know how to pace at all.

I'm sitting there like, oh, I know how.

Like, I was like, if you tell me to hit a pace, I'll hit it spot on.

But it's just like, I always just wanted a little bit faster, like, did.

So did you train your body to do that or, like, off of, like, gps, or do you, like, typically.

Do you just not utilize that a lot?

I don't really.

So when I actually, I run with just, like, a con.

Like, at the end of the run, I'll see how fast I'm running.

I have a compass on my watch.

Yeah, but my.

But, like, at that point, like, I've been running.

Yeah.

I know where I'm going.

That's my point, is that people that stare at their watch because they don't understand their PC perceived exertion matched with their pace, they.

They're lost when they get to races because they have no.

I mean, it's like.

It's like you're studying, but then all of a sudden, you take away all the papers and they didn't remember anything.

And then now the test is hard.

It's like, you need to learn how to pace because you won't necessarily need to rely on that in the race.

Yeah, exactly.

I think that's.

I do a lot of my running on a treadmill, and I think that's a really.

I mean, it's kind of the easy way out, but it's also a very controlled environment.

Yeah.

So like, six flat in a treadmill probably is like, 620 outside with the heat, humidity, and hills.

So I'd rather just be a little bit more efficient on those days rather than going out and not knowing what my perceived, like, treadmill.

I know my perceived effort is every single time.

Like, if my body doesn't feel good at 6 flat and I have to go down 6, 10.

Okay, we're a little bit tired today.

If it's feeling good all right, we're gonna keep it there.

That's fine.

But I feel like outside with a lot of.

I mean, when you're doing so much volume, it's kind of hard to get that perceived effort that you're actually looking for when you're writing workouts.

And kind of reminds me a lot of, like, elite triathletes or elite cyclists where they don't.

They don't necessarily love going outside and hammering on the bike outside, because they want to control the variables.

They want to control the power meter.

They want to control all that.

And they obviously still race outside and race well.

And so kind of reminds Me, your training strategy reminds me a lot of that, which is very common, actually.

It's actually more common than not in that world.

But although in running, like, we don't necessarily have that same concept.

Yeah.

And it's like, everyone asked me, like, are you scared to get, like, outside?

And it just not feel good.

Like, think it takes me two days if I'm on a treadmill for two weeks straight.

It takes me about two days to get, like, my ground legs back under me.

But, like, Wednesday, I went out and did 20 miles in a torrential downpour with my girlfriend on the bike.

It, like, a lot faster than I thought I was running.

I was like, okay, we're fine.

Like, it's just a good check every once in a while.

Especially on those days that are just, like, supposed to be easy, controlled.

Just if anything, just an efficient day.

Not.

Not anything super spectacular.

Just getting out there and not just getting the work in.

So.

So walk me through a little bit of your nutrition in general.

Like, I'm sure you've been asked this a lot, and people are just trying to figure out, like, because you really are kind of an n of 1.

Specifically with your training.

I mean, I would say, like, I've never met anybody that could do any of the stuff you were just saying with regards to training load and being able to do that kind of stuff.

And it's awesome you recognize this about yourself and then take advantage of that.

But, you know, were there other hidden secrets, hidden powers of yours that you're taking advantage of?

I think a lot of it might.

I mean, I don't count calories or anything like that.

Like, so, like, daily.

I think I definitely had a problem with, like, not eating enough in college.

Like, there'd be days in college that I'd eat once every other day just because I wasn't hungry.

And then after a while, your stomach just isn't looking for food because you're not giving.

You're not fueling your body.

So it's trying to adapt to bad habits.

I think my other thing coming back was like, okay, we need to keep our body fueled even if we gain weight or whatever.

It's like, I don't care.

I just want my body to be fueled and not get hurt.

Running so much mileage right now, I'm like, I don't count calories.

But I just know from that side of the spectrum, I mean, I'm getting a lot better with it, but it's like, I don't think I'm ever getting to a point Where I'm really eating enough anyway.

So it's like, I mean, keep the.

Foot on the gas.

Yeah, it's like anything.

Any, like, hey, anything's fuel in the fire.

Like, in the morning, it's like, I'll make a protein shake and throw some scoops of ice cream in it.

Like, just get some calories in to, like, really balance that load out.

Especially it's like, hey, if I'm hitting 35 or 40 miles on a Tuesday, like Monday, I gotta have four or five meals.

Like, just get whatever I can in, like, fires burning hot just kind of throws.

No, and that's the thing.

Like, so say, I mean, this is.

This is maybe a little bit of a hard topic to navigate, but, like, say you.

You're training in the summer, you hit the fall, and you're just eating whatever you want.

And, you know, not using you as an example with this, but for me particularly, this would happen, and I noticed this happening.

This is one of the things that I see when I work with an athlete.

Like, it's specifically a pro athlete through a training cycle.

You know, you start the cycle, you can just feel their body.

They're not.

Their muscles aren't as dense, they're just a little softer.

Their joints aren't moving quite as well.

Then, you know, the season goes on.

You're like, dude, things are getting sharper.

And like, you just.

You feel the body, like, kind of trending in the right direction.

And then like, you can tell like, week or two out from like worlds, Olympics, whatever, be trials, it's like, oh, my gosh, like, this is a different person.

Like, you see it trending in that direction, naturally speaking, because the arc of, like, intensity ramping up towards an event, you're going to get a bigger output of growth hormone, bigger output of cortisol, higher cortisol levels, things like that.

And what they're going to do, that's going to trim the body up and sharpen the nerves, kind of get you a little bit slightly more into that fight or flight realm.

And then naturally your body's from a weight perspective is going to trend in the right direction.

So for me personally, that might look like, you know, when I was running at a decent level, I might be like 147, 150, and then kind of trickle down closer to 140.

And then, you know, the lowest I ever really saw it was like 138.

And it's just like.

And I didn't do any.

I didn't consciously do anything.

No.

And I just was listening.

My body, you know, and it just naturally arcs in that realm because it knows it's peaking towards something.

And the concept of peaking really does kind of matter a lot because like physiologically this, this is how we're designed.

I mean, it's like it's pregnancy, you know, like that happens in women.

It's just like there's a sort of natural trend of the body from a hormone perspective to kind of lend in the right direction.

So I, I think that's good for you to just like eat.

Just don't even think about it.

Just eat.

Because when Chicago comes, like, even if you have or a pound or two heavy doesn't even matter.

Like by that time it's going to just trim it right off.

Like when it needs to.

Yeah, I mean, I think during, probably during that whole marathon block, I was heavier than I had been all of college.

So I'm just like, I know I can.

Yeah, I just felt healthy.

Like I don't really care what my weight is.

I haven't stepped on a scale in a year and a half.

It's like as long as my body's fueled and I'm feeling like strong and healthy, I could not care less of what that is.

Exactly the way you need to think of it.

Yeah, everybody should think of it that way.

And I guess fueling like on runs, like I was actually talking to Hunter Christopher on the way here.

I'm like, I was doing the math.

I'm like, I probably spend like a dollar per mile on gels.

I'm taking like on Tuesdays, like I'll take like eight or nine gels during all of my sessions combined.

And like, dude, you got to get.

That stuff for free, man.

You gotta get those people to send you it.

But yeah, it's just like, just keep like fueling during.

If it's an easy run.

Like I've kind of stepped away from like having a gel on like a 10 mile run or like an hour run.

Like I need to go over an hour.

I'll take a gel on.

But okay, so walk us through that.

So say you do a 90 minute run.

What does that look like gel wise?

90 Minute run.

So like, yeah, anything.

An hour under, I'm just like, okay, I'll be fine.

I'll have some water.

If anything.

I'll have like element.

So I'll have some kind of like electrolytes and just eat before and after.

It's not a big thing.

Have a protein bar in the car.

But if anything over that, I Feel like, not that I'm gonna start fueling after an hour because I start fueling early like every four miles.

Okay.

The harder the intensity starts, start kind of creeping down a little bit more.

So basically every 20 minutes?

Yeah, every 20 minutes.

So like if it's just a regular 90 minute run, like every, I'll just take two gels, like 30 minutes.

30 Minutes.

If it's a little bit up tempo, then I'll go down to 25.

I mean on my threshold days I'll take one every 15 minutes.

So like when I'll get volume wise on the like the work side of things, If I'm getting 26 or like 22 to 26 miles of, of work, I'm taking in quite a bit of gels.

But like I'll start after my warm up and then like finish one right before the cool down.

So specifically which ones are you taking?

Do you?

Just kind of anything I get my hands on.

Really?

Anything.

I'm sure you tried them all with that kind of frequency.

Yeah, I do like to have at least some electrolytes in there.

Caffeine's hit or miss.

If I'm feeling a little bit sluggish, maybe I'll take one late.

But yeah, I mean I like everything from Martin to Edge to never.

Second is the one that I like a lot because it has electrolyte like 200 milligrams of electrolytes in it, which I like about some of these new gel companies.

Not new, but they're putting some more sodium in it than in the past.

I mean my marathon career has lasted like what, five months now.

So yeah, I did bottles at Toledo.

Right.

But like do you practice with them?

I did a little bit.

I feel like I've always been pretty athletic where it's like it, I'll have to definitely line them up.

Like in a Chicago standpoint where there's going to be a lot more than like 12 on the table.

Yeah.

But yeah, I feel like I've been pretty agile.

Stomach wise, you're good?

Oh yeah, stomach wise I'm great.

I feel like with my diet and lifestyle, I put a lot of stuff in my body that it's fine.

Yeah, well, there's not a lot, there's.

An advantage of that.

And I, I talked a lot about this with Clayton.

It's like when he was, you know, at his peak and he would, he would do a lot of the diamond leagues overseas, he would almost never race in the states and he, he knew that that was one of his advantages.

That he could basically eat whatever he wanted.

So he could go to Romania, be fine.

He can go to China, be fine, Go to Australia.

It's fine.

Because he just was used to just, like, kind of having, like, a lot of different variety of foods.

Yeah.

And some athletes are so strict with it.

They go to Europe and they race, and they're like a nightmare because it's like a completely different situation and all that sort of stuff.

And it's like, flexibility is really the key in this sport.

Oh, 100% flexibility.

Like, the ability to pivot.

Like, just.

Hey, something goes wrong, then not stressing out about.

About it.

Just, all right, we'll make the best of what's going on.

Yeah.

But I think the fueling thing I do pretty well.

I don't know how many carbs I should take in an hour, but I think that's the beauty of doing such long sessions is, like, I'm kind of really putting my foot on the line of, like, okay, if I'm taking in, like, 150 an hour, which I've done, like, once, I know I can stomach it.

That's amazing.

And also be able to eat and not feel bloated all day either.

So.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, that's good that you're challenging it, because I think that's when we're looking at partly why we're seeing such a big jump in the marathon itself.

It's like, people are cramming so many more carbs per hour, and then we used to be able to do.

So that's phenomenal that you're able to get that low or that high.

I mean, what about.

So one of the things that I noticed during Toledo, watching the videos you racing, and it's crazy I missed that race.

I was really set to go watch it, but one of the things I noticed is how freaking strong your quads were.

Do you lift at all?

So that is my biggest qualm about my build right now is I was in the weight room probably two or three times a week last year.

I'm going like, this is, like, my week, where I've only been in probably once or maybe twice every week.

I'm.

I'm getting back to, okay, a big.

But, yeah, I was definitely in the weight room a lot.

Is that a big thing in college that you would do?

Yeah.

At both schools is more specifically Arizona State.

We had, like, Coach Mac and D. Our weight.

Our weight coaches were some of the best I've ever seen in the country.

Taught a lot.

I was just working a lot.

Honestly, A lot of explosiveness.

So like, hey, if I can be explosive, then the marathon effort should feel a little bit easier.

Like if I'm able to run like that was the thing.

If I can run a fast mile, then I know that marathon pace should at least feel somewhat more manageable.

But yeah, I was doing everything from cleans to like Bulgarians and a lot of free weight stuff.

Now were you carrying that.

Those same lifting styles into Toledo?

Oh, yeah.

So you're doing like even like Olympic lifts and stuff like that?

Yeah, even like, I mean I would, of course they would be kind of like the same as your traditional running.

Okay.

You have three weeks on or four weeks on and then a deload week.

So like I had my taper of course got extended an extra week which ended up, I think helping.

Those last two weeks were like deload where it was like low weight but just like fast.

Yeah, just as fast as possible.

Yeah, it's just like really fast Twitch.

And are you still in communication with some of those strength coaches to kind of help you out still?

Yeah, every once in a while.

Yeah.

Actually I talked to Dee a couple weeks ago.

I've been.

I'm pretty bad at answering texts sometimes, so I'm probably going to text her like before on my way back home.

But yeah, that reminds me.

But yeah, I mean, great people, I think that's a cool thing about transferring.

And then I mean you don't see it as an attribute in, in the time, but when you have four different coaches at one school and then like you get a lot of different training philosophies.

So being able to kind of form that into what works for yourself was a really big thing for me.

One of the, you know, whenever you go to like let's Run or see your articles and like Runner's World or whatever like their city is and they're talking about you, it's always there.

People are always bringing up, you're self coached.

You're working at a running shoe store and you just came back to Ohio to train.

What was.

Did you just.

You came back home and you're like, I, I don't know, I just kind of want to see what I can do with this running thing.

Is that what started things or like what degree did you, what did you graduate with?

What was your professional goals on that side of things before you realized you had this crazy marathon talent?

Yeah, I haven't read any like let's Run or any articles around me.

I just, I don't.

That's always how the subtitle is like,.

Yeah, I don't know.

Self coached Ohio native, goes back, works at a running shoe store, you know, something like that.

Yeah.

So I mean, through that I went to Arizona State for four years, graduated my degree in biomedical engineering, my bachelor's, and then I went to Notre Dame and had a one year master's degree and got that in master's in science and management.

And then I stayed for an extra year and I was like, hey, I even told my mom and dad.

I was like, I, I'm going non degree seeking.

I'm kind of throwing everything into running.

I'm just gonna try one last time at this because I was just never, I was like kind of flirting with making it to NCAAs.

I was making it to NCAAs, but when I would get there, it just like got blown out of the water.

Just kind of always on, on the bubble.

I was like, I'm gonna throw everything into the season.

And even coach Neil and I sat down and we, we thought we did everything right.

We're like, on paper, we did everything right.

Still got hurt.

Stepped away from that.

Was like a volunteer assistant coach for a couple months.

Just because I loved my teammates, wanted to be around all my friends.

Wasn't running because of course I was hurt.

After that was just real life happened.

It's like, hey, let's go find a job in biomedical engineering.

Threw out probably a thousand applications, got about four replies back.

And in the meantime I was like, okay, like now I'm healthy.

I was out in Arizona with my brother and I was like, because he's still out in Scottsdale, he's just like the most charismatic person in the world.

I have a twin brother, Angelo.

But I was like, you know, like, I don't think I have running shoes on me.

I was like, I just want to go out for a run.

Like it's been probably five months since I've even broken.

And I went out and it was horrible.

I think it was like an all out sprint.

And I ran like six miles and it was like 6:30 pace.

But for me I was like, wow, I'm like really not like that good anymore.

And I was just like, like I wonder like, I was like, I wonder how if I could like just train for like six months where I would be.

And I went home and that was kind of it.

I was just like, yeah, let's like, let's play around with this.

Like we'll get back into it.

But yeah, jobs weren't panning out.

I mean that's like, I didn't go to Glass City and be like, oh, I'm this.

Once I run this, like, I'll be set for life.

Yeah.

Or for the next foreseeable future, even next year.

It was just, I just want to go do this because I love doing it and I've always wanted to run a marathon.

Yeah, I know.

When I texted you after that and then you, like, you got back to me and you're like, sorry, I haven't got back to you, but my life is turned upside down.

Yeah.

It's like I like replying to like one text, like, from my mom and dad, like a week.

And then it was just like, there is like 330-416-like-all like a million down.

I was like, I don't know, what's going on is already on the fritz.

So that's awesome.

And you still have.

You still want to stay local and trained.

Do you want to do, like, you know, altitude blocks at all or, you know, are you kind of tinkering that ideal at all?

Yeah, I mean, I would love to do an altitude block if it lined up right.

And I mean, I had the right setting to be in.

I think at this point in the block, it's too late to really flirt around with that.

But probably next year would be a great one to just, hey, let's go out for 28 days, see what happens.

I don't think it could be bad, but I think I do need to get a little bit more clarity on why things are working or actually even what zones I'm training in.

Because I just know.

I think that's the cool thing about training for so long is you just know where your body's at.

Something that your coach would never know.

Like, even, I mean, you can look at the analytics and stuff, but, like, mentality, like, there's some days where I like the first miles, the warm ups, horrible.

And then I'm like, okay, well, I just know I'll be fine.

And it just pans out.

But really getting a little bit more, some more statistics behind that would be great.

Because when you're training pretty much at sea level and then you're going up to 7,000ft or 6,000ft, like, where are my perceived efforts at and what zones was I hitting for that last six months?

Are we going to hit those?

Are we going over?

Like, how can we stay healthy doing that as well?

Yeah.

So this is kind of be the final question here.

We kind of round third on the podcast.

So, you know, obviously, like, your Story is very special to people here locally in Ohio, and people love the fact that you came back and we can all relate to just that, you know, gritty Midwestern mentality and all that.

But what, you know, you recently were just at high school cross camp and things like that.

What are some things you consistently tell, you know, a Vinnie in high school, you know, somebody that was in your shoes and up and coming, and, you know, just some advice in general about your overall trajectory in the sport?

Yeah, I think I've probably said to a couple people, even today is like, it really is the most, like, genuine sport and it teaches you a lot, like, just staying with it.

Like, I mean, anyone in this sport can say, hey, I am a better.

Better than I was three years ago.

And even if the times aren't there, it's like, okay, my easy runs are feeling better.

So it's like the consistency that you can build throughout not even like three months or three years.

Like, if you can stay consistent, that's better than just, hey, let's get an A plus day every single day.

Like, yeah, okay, B plus is great, too.

For three years compared to I'm training really hard and getting hurt.

Training really hard, getting hurt.

And that's a lesson you kind of had to learn.

Definitely.

It's like, no, I'm not him.

There's different physiological benefits to each training block.

Any, even every environment.

So, like, figuring out what works for you in tandem with, like, the cool thing about, like, I think high schoolers sometimes, like, oh, I have horrible coaches.

Like, they're giving you a free template, too.

Like, at least, like, they're taking all of their experience and giving you a template to.

It may not be the best one, but it's going to be successful if you believe in it.

So it's like just believing in what you're doing, figuring out those things.

Like, hey, if something goes bad, it's like, cool, that's fine then now, you know, for the future.

It's like, how can you pivot from that?

How can you learn from that?

And I think there's like, a couple things that the high schoolers like, oh, how do I build something when I'm done with high school?

It's like, okay, consistency.

And then you build structure from structure.

You build intensity.

Intensity you build, like, specifics.

Yeah.

So it's like, there's different levels to it, but it's like, at the end of the day, you ask anyone in the sport.

Anthony.

I were running in the tow path a couple weeks ago, and we're like, consistency over everything.

If you can do.

Yeah, he's a.

If you can just.

Perfect example.

Exactly.

If you could just stay consistent and healthy the whole, like, for your lifetime in the sport or just forever long, you want to be.

You're going to see results in all the different aspects.

You didn't know what your competitors were doing.

You didn't really care.

You just trained on your own.

You didn't constantly question everybody around you and what was happening.

And I feel like high school kids just know too much.

Oh, yeah.

And it's just like, you're right.

Like, just believe in whatever you're doing.

I mean, I don't think, like, Jim Ryan's coach back in the day, like, knew exactly what he was doing, but he just believed in them and.

Yeah.

And you just run through a brick wall with that mentality.

And I am starting to see it more with the women 6k recently and over the last couple years, I noticed some of the women wearing Timexs and going back to that, staying away from the gps, not getting too much information.

And I love the fact that you have no care in the world about other training strategies and you really don't care about other things that are happening around you.

You're just like.

You figure that out about yourself.

You're not comparing.

You're just, like, staying in your lane, you know, it works for you.

And that's genius.

And that's such a veteran move.

Yeah.

It's a hard thing to pull yourself away from.

Yeah.

I think something in the back of my mind that I.

People always ask, like, oh, are you doubting it?

I'm like, kind of.

But it's like, I believe in what I'm doing because I can see week after week that my body is being really resilient and running, recovering pretty fast.

But also it's something.

It's like, hey, I don't.

I know what I'm really kind of doing for my body.

But also, it's probably not.

It's definitely not 100% of what I should be doing to get ready for the fastest marathon of my life.

But I'm also 25, I'm still very young in the marathoning sport.

So it's like, yeah, let's make these risks, take these risks and try and find these boundaries early.

So later we can just be like, okay, well maybe 120 miles a week isn't what we need to do.

Or this double threshold, this, this volume, I need to be more, need to be less.

But at this, at this point, like, I can always get better the next block.

So it's like I don't have this professional coach, I'm not a professional coach.

But also it's like in tandem with that, it's like, I know what I'm doing isn't 100% correct.

So next block.

I know I can get a couple percent better.

Yeah.

And it's interesting too, because so in each season begins to look slightly different, right?

Because you get a new body, you're kind of slightly older, you're a little bit more veteran, you figure out what works, what doesn't work, et cetera.

And he.

And I was like, walk me through what it was like training for the American record in the mile and then versus now you're training for the Olympic trials in the marathon.

And he's like, well, actually I run less miles per week than I used to.

He's like, you think I would run more running the marathon?

He goes, I work out the same number of hours in a week than I used to.

But he's like, less of its mileage.

I'm just, I'm just doing more core.

I'm doing more lifting, I'm doing more stretching, more balance work.

And then that adds up to the overall time volume of what I used to do.

But I put in such good work in my 20s that in my 30s that it's just, I just need a little flick of the wrist training, volume wise.

And I can run well in the marathon.

And that's such a veteran move.

And it's like as time goes on, like your seasons might look slightly different because you're flexing different variables.

Like you said the last training cycle you had a little bit larger emphasis on strength training.

And then this training cycle, it's maybe slightly different in terms of like volume, you know, but now it's an experiment.

Now you kind of, you're testing things right now and just to kind of see how the outcome comes.

Yeah, I mean, I think it's Like, I've run the cool time on paper of 205, I think, like, at my last, like, of that.

That long run double threshold, like, giant block.

I was sitting there was like, if I was.

If, like, March me was lining up against me right now, like, March me had absolutely no chance.

Like, like, nice.

So it's like.

But if I get there and it's like, hey, something doesn't happen, like, I already.

I've already done the cool thing this year, but I'm also taking a risk of changing things up, but I think it is gonna be for the better.

And if it's not, then, okay, we have that think.

That's the beauty of all the technology and resources.

Like, I can go back and try and replicate it as close as I want to.

I have what I ate, what I trained at, the paces I was at, and we can kind of go back and see that, and the difference will be like, I know I can do it now.

It's like, it's not gonna be that question mark of I'm training to run 210.

It's like, okay, well, that's what I was doing to train to run 206, but that doesn't mean that that's what I have to train to.

To be 202 or 204 or 208.

Like, it's.

There's a million different ways to skin a cat.

And let's find the good, happy medium.

Yeah, well, I mean, I can talk about this for another couple hours, but we're not going to subject everybody to that torture.

So to kind of close out the podcast here, what's a final tidbit of advice that you have to anybody that might be listening or anybody here present?

Just enjoy it.

I think a lot of people.

Stop looking at what everyone else is doing.

Enjoy it, and figure out what's going on with yourself.

Like, I think.

I don't.

I don't really think in the professional side of things, because they know exactly what's going on, especially with their coaches.

But if you're trying to find your way, it's like, find.

Find your own way.

Stop looking at what everyone else is doing and figure out a way to enjoy it as well.

If you're not enjoying it, you're not going to run good and you're not going to be happy.

Like, being happy was the biggest thing is, like, I just don't feel like I was.

I was happy at Notre Dame, but I just.

I just don't think that the track was my thing.

Like, it was like, I think we got.

I got all out, all out of it, as I was going to, but then day, I think I was just made for the roads, and I think that was something.

I talked to Coach Neils, like, I was very happy.

And I think that transition of just enjoying life in tandem with running was great.

And it can't be that number one thing that you're always stressing about, so.

Especially the younger kids.

Couldn't agree more.

Well, I thank you so much for having come on the show and this is awesome, and absolutely pleasure talking to you and, you know, wish you nothing but the best for training.

And we'll all be cheering you on from afar.

And I'll be at Chicago, so I'll be cheering you on there.

That'll be fun.

Yeah, I'm excited.

All right.

All the best.

It.