What happens when three friends talk through a long run? This super entertaining and funny episode touches upon that similar feeling we've all had on long runs when any topic is fair game and stories unfold.

In today's episode, we engage in a candid and free-flowing dialogue that explores a myriad of topics, ranging from personal anecdotes to the intricacies of athletic training. Dr. Leo Kormanik is joined by his esteemed colleagues, Dr. Matt Pisanelli and Zach Goulet, as they navigate the complexities of life, friendship, and the occasional humorous mishaps that accompany their experiences. A salient point that emerges from our discussion is the evolving landscape of injury management in sports, highlighting how contemporary practices enable athletes to train through setbacks while maintaining peak performance. We also delve into the realm of literature, sharing insights on various books that have piqued our interests, thus illuminating the interplay between personal growth and professional development. As we meander through these topics, it becomes evident that the bonds of friendship not only enhance our conversations but also enrich our lives in profound ways. In a candid and unstructured format, Dr. Leo Kormanik, Dr. Matt Pisanelli, and Zach Goulet engage in a multifaceted discussion that spans a broad spectrum of subjects, weaving together elements of their personal lives and professional insights. The episode opens with a light-hearted acknowledgment of the time elapsed since their last gathering, setting a tone of familiarity and rapport. The transition to a new studio is humorously noted, reflecting the ongoing changes in their lives and the challenges that accompany such transitions. As the conversation moves forward, Dr. Pisanelli introduces the subject of indoor track, sharing his enthusiasm for returning to work with high-caliber athletes. He elaborates on the unique pressures and expectations that come with this role, highlighting the psychological aspects of coaching elite athletes. This discussion segues into deeper themes surrounding the mental resilience required in sports, as well as the importance of adaptability in the face of setbacks. The trio reflects on their respective experiences within the world of athletics, emphasizing the significance of cultivating a strong mindset in both training and competition. In a delightful juxtaposition, the episode also features personal anecdotes that provide insight into the joys and challenges of parenting. Dr. Kormanik shares humorous stories about his adopted son, Tommy, illustrating the unpredictability and hilarity that often accompany raising young children. The intermingling of serious discussions about sports with lighthearted parenting tales creates a dynamic and engaging listening experience. This episode ultimately encapsulates the essence of friendship, personal growth, and the shared journey of navigating both the complexities of professional life and the joys of family.

Takeaways:

1. In our recent episode, we engaged in a candid discussion about the evolving dynamics of friendship amid the passage of time, reflecting on how our lives have diverged yet remained interconnected.
2. The topic of injury management in competitive athletics was thoroughly examined, emphasizing the necessity of adapting training approaches to accommodate the realities of physical setbacks.
3. We explored the profound psychological aspects of competitive sports, particularly how athletes cope with performance pressures and the expectations placed upon them by themselves and others.
4. Insight was shared regarding the significance of a supportive community in both personal and athletic pursuits, highlighting the role of camaraderie in fostering resilience and motivation.
5. An enlightening conversation ensued about the cultural perceptions surrounding drug use in sports, particularly the historical context of methamphetamine usage among athletes during wartime periods.
6. We reflected on the importance of embracing imperfections and setbacks in both athletic training and life, encouraging a mindset that values progress over perfection.

Foreign.

It has been a hot minute for you, too.

All right, here we are.

Yo, yo, everybody.

On another episode of the Mind Body marathon.

Hello.

And on today's show, it's yours, Dr. Leo.

Yours truly.

And then we have Dr. Matt.

Hello.

And old Zacharoni.

It's been a minute.

It has.

This is my first time in the new studio.

Yeah, the new studio.

Yeah.

It took forever to get the studio painted.

And it looks the same.

It looks literally the same.

It's just mainly like that.

We just needed to move the room.

That's all it was.

Well, like always, I'm gonna blame it on Jared.

Yeah.

Took his good old time.

But, yeah, like we don't.

What do we have on the agenda today?

I think we're just kind of riffing it.

Yeah.

Matt, so you kind of had mentioned you want to talk a little bit about indoor.

And why was that indoor track?

Well, right now we're in the thick of it, so not even that well.

So I am going to be treating at us.

There you go.

So what, what, what's that date I leave on the 24th or 5th.

I feel like 25th.

So I'll be there till the 1st of March and then come home.

Okay.

We'll be gone at the same time.

I'll be in Cancun.

Yeah, we'll be doing.

What are you doing there?

Joelle turns 18, so we're gonna do Cancun things and.

Oh, my gosh.

So, hey, I just remembered, I still have Mariah's Christmas present, but I needed chapstick, so I stole one.

I stole one.

She's got three more.

Mariah is obsessed.

My little daughter, four.

She's obsessed with collecting chopsticks, chapsticks.

But she likes strawberry.

That.

That's her favorite though, right?

Sure.

I thought she said that her favorite was strawberry.

I think it's just because it was pink.

Well, I got her strawberry.

It's organic too, so.

Oh, well, that's.

We love that.

Yeah.

Raspberries.

Yeah.

A lot has changed since we've been on the show.

I mean, since we've done like regular shows, we've done, you know, I did about two months worth of kind of solo acts and traveling and had Jared on for show or two and just could never get us to all connect.

Yeah, we've just been busy.

Yeah.

But a lot has changed.

I got another kid.

Yeah.

I adopted or am in the process of adopting my first cousin once removed.

A little five year old Tommy.

Have you guys even met Tommy?

No.

I can't wait to Meet him.

Can't wait to give him a new.

He's a ball of energy, isn't he?

He is, dude.

He's.

He is.

We were at Sky Zone this past weekend, and I'm just so bad, dude.

I'm so bad.

Like, I took Mariah, two of her cousins, and then Tommy.

So there's four kids, four, five, six and eight.

And somehow thought that it was smart to convince them all to go into the main Dodge Bar Court.

It's a brilliant idea and, like, humble those kids.

Tommy just like, it was getting picked off like crazy.

Just didn't understand the concept of getting out.

And then he got injured and then Weston got injured.

I'm like, all right, let's just move on.

Like, it's, it's past time.

So then we kind of keep going.

And about an hour later, I'm like, let's go back into dodgeball.

Not even five minutes later, poor little Tommy, like, wrenches his knee and is limping around.

And Weston, like one minute later, gets blasted in the face from like this 18 year old kid.

And his, like, I was all bloodshot and the kid, like came out of the game specifically to like, make sure Weston was okay.

He's been taking him to the noggin.

Yeah.

For so long.

I know he played tennis, the ping pong.

And I hit him square in the forehead.

It's like it was like a Three Stooges.

But he was asking for it, though.

He was talking crap.

He better not play any contact sports in high school.

He's already halfway, like being disqualified for participating.

Just everything just goes right after his head.

And he was like, trying to hold back tears to be a tough guy.

And this kid was like, dude, I hit him so hard.

I felt so bad.

But then I'm like, if I freaking take this kid, this little kid I adopted, if I take him to Sky Zone within like a month of having him and break his leg, that's the worst parent ever.

And I gotta pump the brakes with this kid because he is all energy.

Like last night I was like, dude, go downstairs, like, rush downstairs.

Like, take this to your room real quick.

And then he's rushing downstairs in here.

He just falls down the stairs, dude.

He just slides on the steps.

I'm like, you gotta watch out.

Your story either this, like, early this week or last week when you said like, like Tommy and Mariah, like, if they got all their stuff done, they could.

Or like, you guys would wrestle.

Yeah.

And he got real excited.

Then punched you.

Oh, punch me square.

Square in the Chongas.

And I don't know why he goes.

After that dude because he's probably at the height of.

But it's.

Well, it's funny, though, because we were talking to his.

His nana, so my uncle was taking care of him.

And then my uncle's girlfriend was his nana, so he called him Papa and Nana.

And so he.

They started him in a year young at elementary school.

And we were talking to her last night, and she's like, does he punch kids, like, in his new school?

And we're like, no, he doesn't really have any issues like that.

She's like, yeah, he would, like, literally punch kids every day.

I think he was just, like, just riled up.

Just beating kids up in the wrong area.

He knew the sweet spot.

And he just comes into our house and you just start swinging hard right at the wrong areas.

If you watch too many Three Ninjas, the puffy doll, that would light up when you hit them in the sweet spots.

Oh, my gosh.

That is such a weird reference.

But it's so true.

I have watched that movie a thousand times.

You wished you were them so bad?

100%.

It's still to this day, one of my biggest regrets is not learning how to do flips.

How many movies came out from that series?

4.

4.

And we've only seen the first one.

I've seen.

Well, you see, but for Wine and Jamie Night.

Yeah, I don't think we only watched the first one.

Yeah, I don't think we went to the second one, which I think is just as good as the first one because they're in Japan and they got.

They got a whole new Mecca.

Well, they had.

So the original three brothers.

The guy who played the oldest, which is Rocky, only was in that first movie, I believe, and then he just.

Got too big and peaced out.

I don't know.

I just think he didn't actually want to act anymore.

So they found a different Rocky for the other ones.

But the guy who played the middle one, Colt, has been in all four.

So.

That is the weirdest trivia I've ever heard.

Yeah.

Wow, Zach, you were giving me some weird trivia before this show started.

Oh, yeah.

I'm reading a crazy book right now.

Or, sorry, I'm listening to a book right now.

You gotta.

You gotta clarify because you can't act all like, oh, smart and stuff.

But I am.

I am reading a book that I got for my birthday that it's ticket taken me this long.

So my birthday's in September and it's taken Me this long to finish it.

Yeah.

Can I just say, like, I too, am very ADHD with reading.

Like, next to my bed.

This is probably one of the more annoying things that I do for my wife.

I probably have like 12 to 15 books stacked next to my bed.

And I just.

Whatever I feel interested in, I just read.

And I don't start front to back.

Like, I don't like reading like that.

Like, I'm very open.

Do you front?

No, I just open to a page and whatever.

If I'm interested, I'll start reading.

If I'm not, I just flip to a different page.

Yeah, I'm.

I'm a lot like that.

Obviously I can't do that with stories, but like, with.

Right.

You know, like, I'm somebody who likes to read.

Like, like, obviously things that like, that interest me, like running books.

So, like, Running with the Buffaloes is like a big one that I got really into back in the day and then like, just other things about history.

But I never really got into, like, fiction books.

And I really want to get into it because I feel like it opens up a creative part of your brain.

Oh, that's such a great idea.

I. I do.

I do agree with that.

Like, I think so now I'm just mainly reading the Bible and stuff at night and.

And book called the Utmost for the Highest, which is like devotional prayers and stuff.

That's mainly what I've been doing.

But I do agree with that.

Like, I like reading fiction before bed because it does make the dreams better.

Well, I'm reading Project Hill Mary, so that's like the physical book that I'm reading.

And they're going to make it into a movie.

So it's.

It's Andy we.

So he wrote the Martian, which became.

The movie or became the movie.

Yeah.

And then this one's going to be a movie.

And I'm like, trying to get it done before.

Like, I don't know when the movie.

I think it comes out in spring, but I'm like, I got like 100, like 50 pages left and I'm just.

Like, like, what is it about?

It's basically like this energy source that.

Is.

Consuming the sun and they're trying to find a way to, like, combat it.

So it's like an end of humanity type book.

And like.

Yeah, it's really neat.

I don't want to go too much in detail because I think it's going to be a really good movie.

And the book's like, it's really good.

And what's it called again Project Hail Mary.

Project Hail Mary.

It's a really good book.

People are going to think that's like some like college football or something like that.

And like, I'm someone who can't get into books like that.

But this one, like, his writing is just so, so good.

It's so good.

But the book that I'm listening to is called Blitzed and it's basically a book about how there was extreme meth use in the German army when Hitler was in power.

Now, the.

They didn't use method, any of those kind of things in World War I.

Correct?

It was just.

No, it was.

So like, the book kind of starts out with like an historical overview of like how meth became.

And then like, there were some doctors that were concerned and saw bad side side effects.

And so it was like prescription only.

And then as I don't think it, like, they didn't really talk about in the book it being prevalent in World War I.

But then as Hitler started to become or gaining more power, he wanted more of a pure society.

So like banning alcohol, banning drugs, whatever.

And part of the reason why is because he had really bad health issues.

So he had like bad GI issues.

And then this like doctor who became like the celebrity doctor back then and then ultimately became his personal doctor, started to inject him with vitamins.

Huh.

He was getting infusions.

He was, it was like very like forward thinking.

And then.

And then Germany at a point, as they were like in turmoil after World War I, with all the sanctions and things that happened to them started, some of the pharmaceutical companies started to create this other type of meth called Per or Pervitin, which was like a safer form.

Like, it had like, they claimed that it had no like, side effects besides just the effects that you get, like, you know, feeling.

What are the effects of meth?

Like, like, what does it even do to you?

Because all I think of is just teeth.

Yeah.

So like, in terms of like, bad.

Or good, you don't like your teeth?

Yeah.

Yeah.

So, so terms of like bad or good?

Both.

Well, good.

Like, why do people do it?

So the, what they talk about in the book is that it's basically like, like Adderall.

So it's like you get, you like, you get shit done.

So like, it helps you to stay focused, it helps you to work, it helps you to have a lot of energy.

Like you don't.

You can't fall asleep.

Yeah, dude, I Have.

And so this is crazy.

This is worth, like, slightly interrupting back to your story.

But the reason why I ask is, like, I don't think I've opened up at all on this podcast, but I was around a lot of drugs as this as a kid, and meth was one that I was not around a lot.

And you can.

You, as a kid, when you're growing up around drugs, you get very comfortable with understanding what somebody is on.

Like, you just.

You.

You're like, oh, well, they're probably on heroin or they're on coke or cocaine or whatever, and you kind of just get an idea, like.

Because there's distinct differences.

There's like.

You get, like.

You find, like, looks in their eyes and then paraphernalia around, and you kind of just follow.

Follow the tracks.

Right?

I don't even know.

Like, this was the.

One of the weirdest stories of my life, but I was probably in, like, fifth or sixth grade somewhere in that.

That time frame, and I was hanging out with a friend, so I lived at the time in South Akron, and we had just moved to East Akron, and I went back to South Akron to hang with one of my friends.

And he was his stepdad, so I only knew his mom from when I was in South Akron.

And his stepdad was, like, freaking crazy.

So we go and stay at his stepdad's house, and he was, like, quite literally making bombs in his basement.

Oh, my God.

Like, he was.

He was absolutely crazy.

And sometimes I just like, I'll meet people, and I'm like, did these things actually happen to me?

Because it's so crazy.

But he was on meth, and it was a.

It was a whole new thing I had not experienced.

I was not around, and he was.

He would stay up all night, and I was there for, like, two or three days.

And of course, this.

The house was absolute mayhem.

Like, we were shooting, like, paintball guns at cars on the highways and stuff.

Like, just.

I can't believe that I, like, survived my.

You've come a long way.

But I do remember vividly in the middle of the summer, because it was like, summer, he set off a small bomb on the railroad tracks.

Oh, my gosh.

Yeah.

In Akron.

Yeah.

Oh, my God.

Like, it was.

It didn't, like, blow up a ton of stuff, but it, like.

It literally was like.

It was like, you know, it was like a pretty elaborate firework, essentially.

And we all, like, ran up.

Remember, they had helmets, and he's like, put on these helmets and stay in the front yard.

And then he's like, you guys want to see what I'm working on?

He's like.

He just had this look in his eyes.

Like he.

He.

This dude was, like, wired to the core with.

Hadn't slept in days.

Was just, like, on a frenzy.

He was on a mission, and he.

Set off a freaking boat on the railroad tracks.

It was crazy.

So lot of this book is through the clinical notes, through, like, some of the doctors and some.

And some.

And some of the generals and.

And they said, like, one of the things that meth did was it took away fear, and it made you feel invincible, and it just gave you, like, this.

They.

They talked about.

It just gave you this power of, like, no fear.

Just go in there.

And so they.

So it's like alcohol, but not.

It's not a depressant.

Yeah, yeah, until you.

Until you're withdrawing from it.

Then you're, like, irritable.

You're okay.

Crazy.

Do they go into detail about, like, the dosage that they would give, like, soldiers.

The soldiers.

They do.

So I'm actually kind of at that part now, so.

So one thing that they experimented with is.

They experimented it with, like, more of the logical side of it.

So they did this.

They did this test where they had a control group that wasn't on meth, and then they did another group where they were on meth, and they had them do math equations for six hours.

And of course, the control group, like, you know, tired after three hours, exhausted.

And the meth group, like, just frenzy doing math equations.

It's nuts.

But then they looked at their work, and it was, like, all over the place.

They weren't getting stuff right.

So, like, all right, we can't really use it for this.

But then they realized that they could use it for, like, battle soldiers.

They were just trying to figure out, like, how to best.

If these guys are crazy, how do we best use it?

Yeah.

So then, like, put them in tanks and send them on the front lines.

100.

Well, that's like chewing tobacco was originally given to soldiers to calm their heart rate and their blood pressure down so they could shoot more accurately.

Yeah, well, that.

Somebody was asking about this, and obviously, this is Mind Body Marathon, but somebody.

Was asking with this right now.

This is incredible.

Yeah, was.

I was.

I was talking to a patient yesterday.

Everybody do math.

False.

Do not do that.

But, yeah, I was talking with a patient yesterday, and they were like, we were talking about Shakari and how she got busted for.

Shakari Richardson.

She got busted for speeding, and then Christian Coleman came to her Aid.

Yeah.

And then he had drug paraphernalia.

Yeah.

I think he had like a, Like a weed pipe.

Yeah.

So then it came up, the conversation like, why is weed even banned it with WADA and USATF and, and usada.

And I was like, oh, well, it's just.

It's a performance enhancer.

And he's like, how would it be a performance enhancer?

And I'm like, well, are.

If you're a jumper or pole VTER and your world is precision, it calms your nerves.

It doesn't do it for everybody.

But if you dose it right, it could be a performance enhancer because it can allow you to lock in a little bit better.

Like, I mean, if anybody has listened to music ever in their life, they pay.

It's like the old.

It's.

Is it technically banned?

It is, yeah.

I thought it was banned up to a certain point.

Well, like, a certain point that I.

Don'T know, but this is why it's banned, is because you can't, you can't.

It's a performance enhancer, right?

It calms the nerves.

I mean, like musicians and authors and writers and I mean.

Yeah, that's a thing that you use it for.

Well, I'm gonna Jamie this.

And if you, if you, if you ban it for like, if you have it like being like a performance enhancing drug for like a technical side of USA track and field, or track and field in general, then you have, you can't just be like, yeah, sprinters can use it, but throwers can or something.

You know, you can't do that.

So you just ban it indefinitely.

Yeah, it's ban in competition.

Oh, pro.

Prohibited.

Only in competition.

Yeah.

What?

That's the point, right?

In competition.

So the fact that he had it in his car was more of a legal issue because obviously the state of Florida, wherever they were, doesn't recognize it.

Right.

But you know, it's a performance enhancer.

I mean, it's the reason why Pink Floyd is so good.

Like, you know, it, like, it allows you to be creative.

Like, let's just be honest about it, right?

So, yeah, I mean, like in this book, I'm kind of getting to the point where, like, worked until it didn't.

It was like the, the excitement of it all where it's like you, you know, you try something new, you're like, man, I feel great.

And then like long term use, you realize that it's like detrimental.

And you're getting to the point where like, part of the reason why, because it worked when they invaded Poland.

So they said it, like, worked tremendously.

So they just, like, stick.

Like they stuck to the script.

And then basically everyone was addicted.

No one was sleeping.

They were all burnt out.

They were all fatigued, so.

So you have a war that goes on for more than a couple years.

Yeah, they screwed them.

Nothing left.

Yeah, well, plus, you're not fighting.

You're not thinking clearly.

Right.

You know, you're not strategic about it.

Yes.

You're just kind of a number because you're just thrown to the front forces, but you're not acting with emotion.

You're not.

You're not.

You're not fighting for your country, fighting for a call.

You don't feel that same passion.

Right.

I don't know.

It's.

Obviously, none of us have ever been in war, but I would imagine that that's what carries you through the hell of it.

All.

Right.

Just being there with your team.

And.

Yeah, we've also never been on meth.

We'd like to clarify.

And thank God that they took it, because who knows what the world could be?

I know, right?

Yeah.

So filming Zach or Matt, what excites you most about.

Most about indoor track here?

I just think getting back to working with that high level of an athlete, you know, it's one of those things where working NAC act, there was probably 75% of the athletes being pro and 25% still being, like, just collegiate, trying to make it into the pro circuit.

And this will be.

I mean, there are going to be all the big names, and so it's.

It's going to be even more locked in, you know, ready to go type of mentality for both the athletes and myself.

So it's like, a lot more stressful.

Where's the beat at?

So it's in New York City.

I can't remember which stadium.

It's Breezeway.

It's Breezeway.

Yeah.

It's the Staten island one.

Yeah.

So that's honestly probably 50 of my anxiety.

I've never been in anywhere close to you.

Never been in the city?

No.

Dude, you're about to get baptized by fire.

I am a. I am a country boy at heart, so me going to a city with, you know, I love this in any caliber is already giving me high anxiety.

But I will commend USA track and field for the first time being on top of things and already getting my travel arrangements not six days before I leave.

Go, team.

So.

So that was awesome.

But, yeah.

So what do you guys think about the performances where we're at right now with with track, I mean.

Oh, it's crazy.

We got a 16 year old that's the world lead right now.

We got, you know, we got a bunch of depth on the US Side.

So many world records being broken.

Yeah.

Or at least US records being broken.

So I talked to a kid earlier, double T's.

Yeah.

I talked to a kid earlier that he ran at Beat up last week and ran past and he's running at Valentine's next weekend and he's like, dude, that track is so bouncy.

It's so fast.

I think they're just great opportunity, great training.

I don't.

Yeah.

I'm so naive to the, the world right now because I've been out of it.

One of my, you know, one of the things I think that's happening with trackflation, I think it's a combination of factors.

I think the access to information is very high.

Like people are aware of what works from a training perspective.

Like trade secrets, if you will.

Secondarily, I think trade secrets of nutraceuticals like creatines, you know, bicarb being the two main ones.

I would say that, that have vast trained change.

The industry of running over the last two years in terms of like how you figure out how to run fast essentially.

And then we have the obvious advantage of shoes and track being different in terms of better.

And then I think there's the other advantage that individuals like us, we keep people healthy.

That was what I was going to say.

I mean, I think that's kind of a hidden variable where, you know, and then if you just think back to the 70s and 80s and if somebody's knee went out, they just kind of stopped.

Yeah.

Or they either pushed through it or, or had to stop.

I remember, yeah.

Reading Frank Short, Frank Shorter's biography and like he was diagnosed with a stress fracture and his team doc was like, yeah, just keep running and it's either gonna break or your body's just gonna like eventually heal.

That's.

And one.

One year it healed and the other one it just broke in half like.

And that was just the mentality like, of it.

Yeah.

So like, you know, doctors and the rehab of the Internet or just have just gotten better about managing injuries and keeping people healthier and allowing them to train at decently high levels and we can, you know, like I was just telling somebody today, there's a basketball kid from, from Britain.

He came in and jacked up his knee pretty good.

Got a torn meniscus, torn mcl and like you're good dude, like, just a couple weeks.

She'll be back by conference.

And he's like, what are you talking about?

It's like, yeah, like, we don't lose meniscus to surgeries anymore, man.

Like, the world's different.

I've got really good with rehab and really good with modalities, and just we know how to release the tissue in different ways now.

I mean, even the fact that, like, I. I didn't know this, but, like, Lindsey Vaughn with a ruptured acl, and she's gonna go out there and try to give it her best.

Like, I don't feel like that was a thing not that long ago.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I mean, you just.

You understand the mechanics of the joint, and then what structures take over and what structures shut down, and it's a very predictable pattern.

And then if you hack this system good enough, then you can.

You know, even with the meniscus tear, people go, well, will it ever heal?

No, it won't.

But that's okay because, like, in a situation like that, I often explain it sort of like it's like a hangnail.

Like, if you have a hangnail, it's a big old fat hangnail on your finger.

It's not a big issue until you catch it on, like, your clothes or your pocket or something, and then it hurts.

But if it's just out in space, it's not a big deal.

It's kind of like the same thing with, like, the labrum of the hip or the meniscus of the knee.

It's like, yeah, you can have a structure that's frankly torn, but if you don't apply aberrant or abnormal forces to that structure, then it just won't hurt.

You know, it's like, it's not the same as, like, a skin tear, like a cut on your skin or something.

I mean, my mind was blown when Arlen talked about his acl.

Yeah.

And it like.

Like, when I found out about it, I was like, wait, that doesn't compute in my head.

But now it's like, now we're kind of rewriting slowly what it's like to have an ACL tear.

Like, he's kind of proof that you can keep going forward.

Yeah.

And is it.

Is it worth it if there's no issue?

Yeah, right.

That's the question.

Able to stabilize it enough.

Like, how would you shut.

Shut down for nine months, you know, of training?

Yeah.

I mean, like, somebody like me who's loosey goosey and very unstable through the joints, like, I would have Known very quickly if I had an ACL tear, but somebody like him who's obviously done hundred mile races, like hundreds, hundred, hundreds of miles of races, it's kind of like, dude, you're, you're just durable.

Like your joint capsule, your tendons, your ligaments, they're just durable.

So they're sure you have an ACL tear, but like everything else is jumping in to stabilize, right?

Yeah, yeah.

So I think that you can kind of get away with that stuff like that.

How much of like just with our change of treatments over the years, like have gotten to the point where we've gotten even better at like being able to allow these athletes to continue to train through injury at 90, 95.

Yeah.

Where, yeah, in a, in, in a race this competitive with that amount of talent is a big deal.

5% is the difference between making it to a finals or not.

But you just can keep them competing for a long enough time where they can run enough races where either the other athletes are having a bad day and they just keep consistent or they have one day where they just get a little bit more of a, you know, of a boost of things too.

Well, especially sprinting, like obviously you're not going to have that as much in a 10k guy who can't race, you know, every week or something.

That's a good point.

It's like, it's kind of like.

So I'm working with this like really high end sprinter right now.

Like this.

He's national, he was internationally ranked spinner and it's like, I mean, he's definitely got some irritation in his hips and he just recently had his knee buckle and he just kind of had a setback with that.

And it's like, it's like, dude, like, it's not like you're running a marathon where your volume of training has to be high.

So you do actually in training have to be kind of firing on all cylinders in the sprints.

Like, yeah, training matters, but you really do just need to get to the line healthy.

And if you're sure, you might have some tears and some structures like labrums or like hamstring or something.

But if you get to the line healthy by managing your workload with volume and training, you just need to be, you just need that window of 10 seconds to be efficient.

And it, it is very manageable to control those forces.

Now optimally, if you have no injury, then you can train even harder and then there you go.

But if you're just really gifted, just get to the line healthy, which Isn't the case in distance?

Like, yes, you wouldn't.

We want to get everybody the line healthy, but, you know, in a sprint, they're more likely to injure themselves in races versus training.

And in distance running, you're more likely to get injured in training versus races.

So it's kind of like you just.

In the.

The psychology is slightly different when you're treating both athletes.

And maybe it's like, what is.

Like, what is the definition of healthy when it comes to an athlete like that?

Because, like you said, like, anytime that you're on the circuit and you're working, you know, there's somebody that has something going on, and it's like, can we manage that to get you to that 90 to 95% so you can go out there and give you, you know, what you need to give for that race?

And I think that's, like, the beauty of being on.

On the circuit, and that's one thing that I miss is, like, when you get to that level and you see these athletes and then you can bring that back and apply it to your, you know, your patient population, you go, no.

Like, you're gonna be fine.

Like, we don't need to take six months off for, you know, runner's knee or whatever.

Like, you know, I'm exaggerating, but it's like, you can use those experiences that you have working with these type.

With these types of athletes and.

And come back and reassure people, like, yeah, you are gonna have these things, but it's okay.

Dude, this is.

This is actually bringing up an interesting point.

So, like, this is kind of way to think of it.

And so I hope people listen to this whole episode so they can kind of arrive to this point.

But if you.

So you would never buy a car.

So you buy a car.

2026 Toyota Corolla.

Yeah.

Well, you.

Would you walk around the house throwing a fit and tantrum because the car needs new brakes.

No.

That's a setback that you expect in a.

In a.

In a.

In a piece of matter that is.

Will literally break down with Use the.

The people that understand that bodies are not perfect.

And if you come out of your teenage years with no injury, you come out of your early 20s with no injury, and then you hit your mid-20s, and that everything adds up and you start getting injuries.

The athletes that age gracefully and continue to do well, go.

Okay, that's fine.

I expected to change my oil at some point.

I expected to get a New set of tires.

I expected to change my brakes.

These are things you expect to do on matter that breaks down and they just go, okay, yeah, that's an injury.

You know, whatever.

I got an Achilles strain or I tore my hamstring or I got a stress fracture.

I mean, that's the risk of our sport.

Sure, fine.

You just deal with it.

People will want it to always be perfect.

And you.

You don't expect that of anything, literally anything else ever in your life, including your job, including your spouse, including your kids.

Setbacks are expected, so why should you not expect them?

Also in training, and you shouldn't throw fits when they happen and panic.

I feel like.

Do you know what I mean?

Like, it's just kind of like, all right, let's take a step back, figure out why this happened and get you back.

It's not a big deal.

Just rewrite.

You know, I. I think it's you.

You.

And I know, like, working with Clayton, it's like he had a lot of setbacks, and we just kind of all.

He never panicked, right?

He just.

You just.

He just sat calmly on the table, 0% raise in blood pressure, and said, yeah, you know, this hurts.

Let's deal with it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Like, there's no way of statistically figuring this out, but I'd love to see, like, if they somehow could with AI or whatever.

Like, what is the actual percentage of people who go to, like, race day, like, having either a.

A hundred percent perfect training plan or, like, feeling 100.

Oh, like a true 100.

It's got to be massive.

There's no way of actually, like, statistically figuring that out.

But, I mean, think of all the people that come on, like, the table for the flushes at Akron Marathon, and you're like, you're.

We're dealing with this now.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's got to be 0.00.

Like, 1% of people who have had, like, they're like, yeah, this was the most perfect.

Yeah.

And that's the thing.

That's a great point.

It's like, well, then, did you push yourself hard enough to, like, you should feel sore?

It's like the track athletes that come in and they're like, I hate track.

It's so hard.

I'm like, it's track.

It's a supposed to suck.

Okay.

I mean, you can play super bowl is coming this weekend.

You can play a whole football game and not have any issues.

Like, but in.

In.

If you're running a marathon, it is a guarantee you will hurt if you run it all out.

800.

It is guaranteed.

You will be b.

You know, baptized by fire.

It will absolutely hurt.

You'll be dipped in acid.

Now that's our world, right?

And you know, when, when you write a training plan for somebody in terms of training, if they execute that 100, you're actually probably overshooting it because you do assume you bake into plans that there will be setbacks.

And you just have to be clear with your athletes about that.

Like if they have setbacks, that.

Is that better?

Did you guys hear that?

Yeah.

The static.

Yeah.

Oh, I don't think I hear it.

That was, that was crazy.

But anyways, if you.

We got to pay attention to that.

But if you guys, if you write a plan for somebody and you're clear with them, like, look, it's not abnormal for you to have some moments where you have to take a day off.

Here we have to back off of a workout.

Like, don't panic.

Don't like stress that you're not going to be as fit, you're not going to be in shape.

Because if you enact a plan to 100 to a T, I'm a little worried, you know, you might have.

You might be almost over trained or there might be an injury looming around the corner.

Yeah.

So just, just kind of know that.

Or then you've miscalculated that athlete and they actually have way more of a threshold.

Yeah.

Shoot.

Like they could.

We could have pushed them 10 more.

Well, great.

You know that.

And now in the next phase.

Yes.

You build up from it, you know.

Okay.

And then you kind of redline it a little bit.

But I think jumping away.

Samuelson said something along the lines of like, you know, we would rather end up on the line, you know, struggling with injury and fatigue than to even consider for a moment to be slightly under trained.

And it's like that's the psychology of a runner right there.

Like, just for some reason we can't even fathom the concept of being like not working our butts off to the absolute degree or that, like the mental.

Side of that too.

Like, I, I had some teammates where they would come in from their warm up before, they're like, race, whether that was like a mile or 800, like, man, that was like the worst warm up I've ever had.

Like, I felt like absolute dog.

Yeah.

And then they would, they would pr.

They run fast.

Well, the psychology is pretty obvious there because they felt bad.

They had no expectations.

Right.

And then.

Or they had lowered expectations while it's.

Down and you're just going out there and competing.

Yeah.

And they're just like, oh, it's gonna kind of suck and like this and that.

And then the race starts and they're like, actually, wait a minute.

Like, I kind of do feel pretty good.

And you know, I always liken those days to.

I mean, I feel like I learned that lesson pretty early in high school, but I liked it.

Likened those days to like getting the cobwebs off.

You know, like you're just sometimes on the warm up, you're like, yeah, you're just getting the cobwebs off a little bit.

Breaking the rust off the bumper a little bit.

And then the race starts and then you're like, all right, here I am now.

I'm familiar with this feeling now.

Yeah, it's, it's, it's.

I like one high school athlete that I'm working with, you know, he, he opened up his indoor season and he had, he had a big goal and we were talking, I was like, dude, just go for it.

Just, just go out, just go out fast and whatever happens, happens.

And he's like, yeah.

And he fell about 10 seconds off of that goal.

He wanted to run for 408, 406, and he went for 416.

But his first lap was 58.

Yeah, that feeling, that feeling.

And it was just like, dude, you're gonna put those pieces together and it's gonna come together and you're gonna, and you're gonna feel so good once it does.

Yeah.

But just don't like, don't doubt yourself just because you ran 416, you went out in 58.

You're fine.

You're gonna be fine.

Trust your talent, trust your training.

Like you're gonna hit that.

And so I'm excited for him.

I hope, I hope he gets there.

Yeah.

And that's the thing.

Like, like that's what I kind of appreciate about this like younger culture, like right now.

Like the full send mentality and stuff.

Like even, even little Tommy, my little five year old guy that I'm adopting.

Full send, dude.

Hey.

I just love.

He fell down the stairs last night and he was like, I'm okay.

It's like awesome.

That's great, dude.

I love the humility of it.

Like my nephew, he'll do laps around the house and I was timing him one night and he had to do like, I think five laps and he comes around after his third one, he's like, he's like, uncle Zach, don't time that one.

I trippy fell in the gopher hole in the back.

He's, like, all, like, muddied up.

His sock is hanging off his foot.

Well, the other day, they were chasing each other at our house, and we had the dishwasher down, and then Mariah, like, just.

I already know that.

She just, like, catapults into the dishwasher, just tangles herself up with some forks and stuff.

Oh, gosh.

I thought you were gonna say she just ran into.

With her shin.

Well, she did that, and then she ended up in the dishwasher.

How did she respond to that?

Did she just get up and shake it off, or is she.

They look at you.

Yeah.

And they're waiting for.

They're waiting to see you panic.

And then I literally don't even really acknowledge it.

And she just gets up and was like, I'm okay, and keeps running, but she's like, should this hurt?

Should this hurt?

Oh, yeah.

Oh, man.

We've had some great movie references.

I know, dude.

Yeah.

Any other crazy topics you guys feel like we should tackle?

These Shooting from the Hip episodes are fun.

They are fun.

We talk about meth, to talk about training to.

Yeah, to training psychology, to racing psychology, to, you know, ninjas.

Three ninjas.

I think that's the theme of it.

A Super Bowl.

Predictions.

What are we thinking?

Well, this will come out.

This will come out after the Super Bowl.

So if we're right, then we'll look really, really good.

Yeah.

So I said.

I think I like what Tom Brady said.

He said that, you know, the year that they lost to the Giants, and they were the best team in the league with Moss, and they were the per.

They were going for the perfect record, and they lost.

And he's like, I would have bet every money, all the money I had that we were going to win that game.

But he's like, you can't think of it that way.

He's like, I learned a big lesson.

You have to think of it, like, if you play 10 times, who would win seven out of the 10 times or six out of the 10 times?

And I think Seattle would win six or seven out of 10 times here.

I would not be shocked if New England upsets him, But I think Seattle wins by double digits.

Blowout game.

I'm gonna pick Seattle.

So I think.

Yeah, I think.

Well, I shouldn't say double digits.

My.

My technical score is 31 24, but I think they cover, which is four and a half points.

Who's the Seattle coach right now?

Matt McDonald.

I don't know much about him.

Yeah, he's a hard line, tough defensive guy.

Is he?

Yeah.

Is he a guy that'll stand out in the rain with no.

Yeah, he's a tough dude.

Oh, man.

Yeah, he's a little tough dude.

I see.

I, I do think it's going to be the, be the Seahawks, but I'm, I'm saying Patriots squeak it out by a touchdown or field goal.

Okay, so, so you're saying, so you're saying Seahawks will win seven out of 10 times, but this game you think Patriots gonna win?

I just think that they, I, I just remember watching the first game of the season when they played the Bengals and they were talking about Mike Gravel's first year.

This is a, this is a rebuild.

You know, I think down the line he's going to have the right stuff and like he's just, he, he just has that, he's got that grit.

They lost early.

Too bad to Pittsburgh and to the Raiders and they came out 13 and three and they had those two losses earlier in the year.

So since then they've had the number one offense in the league in terms of yards per game and all that.

So it's like they're definitely not slouches.

But I think recency bias of.

I mean Seattle just looks so good.

Yeah, and, and they look, they're high flying, they're fast, they're just aggressive and like New England played like slug fast games against tough defenses and the defense they're going to see in Seattle is not going to be any harder than what they already experienced.

So I, I could definitely see an upset.

But I'll put it this way.

I think Seattle would win more times out of 10.

But I also think that if you told me there was a blowout, I would bet my bottom dollar that Seattle would blow them out.

I can't see New England blowing Seattle out.

I think New England would win in a close game.

The other thing that you got to consider too is that Josh McDaniels is, you know, this is his 10th Super Bowl.

And so variables.

I don't know how many Super Bowls he's been in, but he's been in a couple.

And as a player, you know that, that front office all the way through from New England all the way down.

I mean all those coaches in front office, I mean they've been here before and Seattle's been to some recent Super Bowls, but only the GM has.

That's it.

Yeah.

I.

Mean, Mr. Walsh Jesuit to pull it out.

I know the old variable grew up a block down the street from where we're recording this episode.

So I am rooting for the Patriots because of that.

Not because I am a Boston fan, because old Mike Vrabel was from where we're recording the podcast.

So root for your local guy.

Went to Walsh high school, say 28 to 17.

Oh, man, that's a doable thing.

Our scores might be a little high.

I was listening to Gray Cosell talk, and he was saying that he thinks it's going to be a field goal kind of a game.

It's going to be a heavy defensive game that these two defensive coaches as head coaches are going to have a lot of schemes.

And, you know, they're just going to kind of slow down the offenses a little bit.

And, you know, most people are kind of saying it like a 20 to 10, 20 to 13 kind of a game.

Yeah, it's gonna be the mustard, dude.

Yeah.

I'm just watching for the commercials.

Which super bowl halftime.

You guys gonna watch the super bowl halftime show?

It's, it's, it's.

Well, it's.

But Bad Bunny.

But the alternative is Kid Rock.

Wait, there's an alternative?

Yeah, I'm 100 gonna listen to Kid Rock over.

I don't even have any idea who Bad Money is.

Up until like two days ago, I had thought it was a female.

So I'm not even.

I'm not even diving into that mess.

I'm just watching.

I'm keeping on the Super Bowl.

Yeah.

Wait.

Oh, is it not a Super bowl thing?

So what is it?

Turning Point?

Yeah, it's like Charlie Kirk's platform that his wife took over.

Yeah, I'm not gonna get involved in that.

I'll just listen to Leonard Skinner.

My favorite commercial.

Because you know how they now pre release some of the commercials.

Yeah, the Bud Bud Light.

They're back in the game.

I. I was talking to this one page.

What were you gonna say?

Oh, their new commercial is fantastic.

Oh, man, I think I've seen it.

Oh, it.

It's.

It's the Clydesdale as it was a pony and it finds a baby bird and like, basically, like, blocks it from getting rained on.

And they like, fester this friendship.

And then the very end of the commercial is like the horse, you know, now being a full Clydesdale and jumping over a log.

And as he's jumping in the air, it's a bald eagle and it spreads its wings so it looks like Pegasus.

And the whole time it's.

It's Free Bird in the background.

That is the most American thing.

Exactly.

And I'm like, that's hilarious.

They whoever in their marketing program should get paid an extra million dollars for that commercial.

I know.

I was talking to a patient about this, and they were like.

They're like, oh, I'm not watching the bad bunny halftime show because they were very political about it.

And I was like, oh, okay.

And then they're like, oh, I'd rather watch the Kid Rock one.

And I'm like, do you know who Kid Rock is?

Like, did you remember Kid rock from the 90s?

This is not the most model Citize.

Like, just on your Dr. She was like 70 years old.

And I'm like, just on your drive home, like, playing ball with the ball.

Bang on Spotify, some cowboy and that's who you're choosing.

It's like, come on.

Like, these are just like.

No.

One is not more like righteous than the other.

Let's be honest here.

I'm just gonna watch.

Watch the Super Bowl.

Yeah.

All right, guys, thanks for listening to another great episode of the Mind Body marathon.

Any final last points, Zacharoni?

No, I. I think.

I think I'm good.

All right, Peace out.

Till another day.

See you guys.

Dr. Leo here.

If you want to catch me in another setting, be sure to check out my YouTube page, Running Rehab, where you will find exercises on how to stay healthy with running, how to improve your running form, and a bunch of other tips and tricks on how to get over common injuries.

Dr. Leo here.

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Appreciate it.

Sa.