Join Tanya Arnold for a very special episode celebrating the remarkable people inducted into the Leeds Beckett University Sport Hall of Fame.

More than 20 alumni were inducted in June 2026, recognising their outstanding achievements and lasting impact on sport and society.

Tanya speaks to Sir Kevin Sinfield CBE, Natalie Metcalf, Jamie Peacock MBE, Stuart Lancaster, Alexandra Bell and Ali Jawad about their careers, defining moments and the people and experiences that inspired them along the way.

Listen now to hear their stories.

Or you can watch the conversations here: https://youtu.be/Ypx6cUue7BE

Speaker 1

Hello and welcome to a special edition of Carnegie Conversations, because for the second time, we are inducting more people into the Leeds Beckett University Sports Hall of Fame.

Speaker 1

right. So, Kevin, what's it like being back here at Leeds? Beckett. A member of the Hall of Fame. Now, what do you remember about doing your degrees?

Speaker 1

Speaker 3

A lot of fun. We're a good time. My first one, undergrad, was, started off with five of us. Then a couple more jumped on because they thought it was a good idea, but very quickly dropped back off.

Speaker 3

Speaker 3

We had some really good afternoons, sat in the cafe bar, so we'd come up after training knowing how to lecture that afternoon, and we'd grab some lunch here.

Speaker 3

And it was really good for us. Connecting away from rugby and having something different to talk about. But I love my time here. It was

Speaker 3

tough, like, because it was a juggling and we just. When I started, we didn't have a family, but within 12 months of on. And so you juggling playing family and trying to do a degree and but

Speaker 3

everybody was great here.

Speaker 3

So welcoming wanted to help kind and we met a lot of friends. It was funny because there was five of us, yet we we're in different lectures with lots of different students because we didn't follow a typical routine. We were just moving around a fair bit, trying

Speaker 3

to make our subjects work. And that's where I first met Ben Johns in that first year.

Speaker 3

So but it was great. It's good fun. But like I said, it was a juggle. And

Speaker 3

we all had our especially around examiner assignment time. We all had our little roles. Who who go on find the past papers. Who'd get them printed. Who do the fork copy. And we had so we it was good because we lived certain things out between us and it made it a bit easier.

Speaker 3

But it was a challenge.

Speaker 1

Did you go into it thinking at some point my rugby league career is going to end, I'm going to need to do something else. Or actually, did you you want something else to be doing other than just rugby?

Speaker 3

No, I

Speaker 3

went in trying to get ready, trying to get rid of free time. And, you know, I'm at the time I didn't want the hindrance. I just wanted to focus on playing. But I knew it would. It just kept kicking it down the road. But

Speaker 3

what happens when I've got an event up with a big family and late 20s, early 30s?

Speaker 3

As I found out later on, it's a lot more difficult to juggle. So,

Speaker 3

I went in 23, I've done the ER levels, finished them, decided to have a couple of years break where I could focus completing the rugby and like most I do, were playing. That means afternoons of PlayStation and X-Box and and you end up wasting time and and.

Speaker 3

Killing time. And in some ways when I came back to study and I never thought this is really good for me to run alongside my playing career. It was, by the way, but it wasn't the reason I came back.

Speaker 1

So what helped you with your playing career that you were learning?

Speaker 3

There were certain modules that were that just took my mind completely away from it. Sure. I remember that first year we did nutrition with its psychology with biomechanics, and I were interested in all three of them. I had done physics and maths and PE elbows, so I had an understanding

Speaker 3

of where it was heading and and what we were studying, so I really enjoyed that side of it.

Speaker 3

There were bits I took out of it, but I reckon

Speaker 3

another conversation between the five of us was was on a different level to what a typical group of rugby lads it up, and it was only when we came here. It went around the dressing room when we came in and we're in the cafe and we, we chatted about all sorts of different things and, it were good for

Speaker 3

us.

Speaker 1

And a glutton for punishment because you did a master's as well.

Speaker 3

Yeah, I got to 32 and probably realised my degree was a bit outdated, and at that point I really wanted to be in sport ministration.

Speaker 3

Wanted to be a sporting director. Even being brutally honest. Now, rugby league doesn't really have sporting director performance directors

Speaker 3

doubts a rugby, but that title had really come through, although it was in football and that's what I really wanted to do.

Speaker 3

And when I looked around for courses right across the UK where I could come and

Speaker 3

do night school and it'd be in and around the rugby, this was the most I was the best suited. And the problem was that the first evenings and typically the night. So Thursdays were the longest airs and you know, we have our captains running them on, we'd eat together and then from our past 12, three till 5:00, I

Speaker 3

was up kicking me.

Speaker 3

So I didn't live in Leeds. I lived in all those. So I had that debate every week. Do I go home and have a sleep and come back, or do I stare through and and try and get some work done? And it were a tough couple of years,

Speaker 3

but I'm really glad I finished it. I did me, I deferred my dissertation until my third year.

Speaker 3

The reason was it was well cooked and and I thought, I can't count of all this going on in World Cup. And the unit was just so, so helpful. They knew we were going to get the work done. They just allow me to, shaped my life a bit better. Two kids at the time. So it

Speaker 3

was a real balancing act, but, that's probably the one I've leaned into the most, because after that and then joined the.

Speaker 3

And Phelan, the rugby director, then went back to out to be. That's where I started to use in particular the Masters.

Speaker 1

And you talk about friendships, not only the friendships that you had with with the players, but I mean, you've done so much with these guys, with all the challenges you've done, you know, the university and those connections you made have been key to get you around those challenges.

Speaker 3

Speaker 3

A paper craft has been wonderful. So some guys who you meet a long time ago and you're not quite sure what the future looks like and how this plays out, but you know, you keep in touch and you end up doing bits of work

Speaker 3

together and and suddenly you're throwing in a team, throw on the wrong word.

Speaker 3

But we're put together and it felt like we're thrown together, by the way, because of how quickly we pulled some of them together. And they just worked. And, and the fact that we had a history together and there was a friendship already there meant it was seamless in grabbing all of that and going, this is what we want to do, and we all understand our roles

Speaker 3

within it.

Speaker 3

At times we're gonna have to do all the bits because there's stuff going to crop up. We aren't accounted for, and we'll just make it work. And it'd been awesome and the whole team up. But Ben and Pete, we're talking about you. And he has been particularly good.

Speaker 1

Fancy a PhD?

Speaker 1

No.

Speaker 1

You finished their got enough on your plate?

Speaker 3

Yeah, I've got too.

Speaker 1

Much on

Speaker 1

there. But happy days.

Speaker 1

Speaker 3

Good. Yeah. Great times. I'll look back on memories. When I did the Masters JP was on the course, so it was great for us. We spent a lot of time together. Thursday nights off in the dark before games. So be chatting bits around the game and

Speaker 3

some things we might need to go after, so it was really helpful.

Speaker 3

My first one was was great fun. The second one was a bit more serious.

Speaker 4

Well joining us now we've got Alex Bell who graduated with a BA in human geography back

Speaker 4

Speaker 4

Alex?

Speaker 2

For me, it did not exist as well. Yeah. When I look back now, we've we've come such a long way. And the place itself, the place I call home, has changed beyond measure. And it's fantastic to see and for it to be such a platform now for so many successful athletes and other people in other occupations. It's yeah, it's a marvellous place.

Speaker 4

And just beyond us is the running track. How many hours of your life do you think you've spent running around that?

Speaker 2

Countless, countless and many, many more to come. Obviously with the marathon, soon to be, you know, expected. Yeah, there's many more laps to come and I welcome it, I don't mind, it's it's someplace. It's a place that I enjoy. And it's a place I love to be. And it for sure is my second home. And I wouldn't waste a lap on there if I didn't enjoy it.

Speaker 4

How much of a juggle was doing the degree with the amount of training you had to put in.

Speaker 2

At the time, I'd say not so much because I'd say I'm a completely different athlete as well as person to who I was back at university, I would I was part of the team, but I would never fully commit and fully give my all as as I am now. But yeah, it was. It was still an amazing group of people.

Speaker 2

There was still some amazing world class coaches there who I'm in the hands of now. And yeah, I'm a completely different person for it and gladly so. Because yeah, I call this like a magnetic field, like literally a magnetic field because so many people come to uni, they leave and then they end up being drawn back to this place because of the environment, the people who are here.

Speaker 2

And like I said, the world class coaches who were in the hands of as well.

Speaker 4

So when did it sort of dawn on you that you were good? You you were of the standard where you should be dedicating your life to it.

Speaker 2

I would honestly say actually, when I graduated, and I'm sure a lot of people would, you know, understand this, this thing I'm about to say, but you come out of university sometimes and you're like, what now? What do you do? Do you get a full time job? Do you, do you stay on and study something else? I was very lost at that point, and one of my favourite memories of being here at university was me and my husband now, and I have a lot for him to thank because he was the one who actually pushed me and introduced me into the coach who I've got now, who was developed me into the woman I am

Speaker 2

and developed me into the athlete that I am. And yeah, I'm so thankful for my other half and we have a great partnership together on and off the track. So

Speaker 2

yeah.

Speaker 4

And when you come back here now, do you ever sort of think back to that student as you're coming day in, day out for your training?

Speaker 2

Sometimes. I mean, it's always nice to reflect and see how far you've come and where you've been. And yeah, there's always time to reflect. And yeah, I'm just the word I'd say is probably grateful to have a really small circle, but a really trusted circle of people that I have around me. And I work quite a lot in the community with like younger athletes and even just younger students, whether or not it's sport or not.

Speaker 2

And the one thing I said to them is two words is resilience is one. There's a lot of things that will knock you down, but to go through them, you must go through them to go through the highs. And yeah, I just said to a lot of people is just get yourself a really good support network around you and things like that don't come overnight.

Speaker 2

It takes time. So yeah, it's nice to look back and reflect and and see the support network that you've grown over that period of time.

Speaker 4

And the next chapter for you is that is looking towards the marathon. It's always I mean, I just tip my hat off to anybody who

Speaker 4

runs a marathon, who's looking to run it in an Olympic Games is just completely beyond me. But how excited are you about the next chapter of your career?

Speaker 2

So much unknown territory for me and my coach. Although he, Andrew Anderson, he has had many athletes who has like trained and directed to the Olympics in the marathon. My style is quite different in the fact that I'm coming from an 800m background in seventh in the Olympics, I have got fast twitch fibres, I have no twitch fibres and it's something that we're both interested and seriously don't actually know how far we're actually going to go with this and how fast we can actually, like, go with it.

Speaker 2

And that's that is so refreshing for us. Birth to have something new, a new direction. And again, we're buffing it together side by side, step by step.

Speaker 4

And you've got some incredible people to train around with you doing the same thing.

Speaker 2

Yeah, so many people to be inspired by and some other people I speak to the like when you watch the marathon, it goes as far as just watching it and being okay, I'm inspired. That'll do. Whereas me, I've watched London every year and I've always had to be like, oh, that could be me one day. I'd love to do that.

Speaker 2

But I've always said, if I want to do it, I want to do it like amazingly well, as opposed to just say, I've done one. So I'm an all or nothing kind of girl and it looks like we're all, we're all in, we're all for it.

Speaker 4

So

Speaker 4

the best of luck.

Speaker 1

Well, our next alumni is Stuart Lancaster, who did two degrees here. First human movement studies and then a pg C in physical education. I wonder you were a PE teacher when you started out alongside playing in all of the rest of it? How do you look back on your time as a student?

Speaker 2

No, I loved it, I loved it, I was fun, so that's what drew me to the city to start with. I'm from Cumbria originally, and then the course, the human movement of this course was a really broad course. So it had like physiology, biomechanics, psychology, sociology, etc. so it had all the theoretical elements of sport, and then it had all

Speaker 2

the practical elements to actually physically did athletics, dance, gymnastics games, swimming, whatever.

Speaker 2

And then that was the first year, and then you had to narrow down and select which ones you were the most interested in. I end up

Speaker 2

picking physiology and mechanical and games from enough and athletics. And so that led to my degree completion in 91 and then did the PGC in 92. But remember, like I was playing rugby at the time, but rugby was amateur.

Speaker 2

Speaker 2

they went to Headingley, merged around it, formed Leeds and lived on Escort Avenue. Met my wife here and I'm currently organising our 35 year reunion for September this year.

Speaker 1

And you've never left Leeds despite the fact

Speaker 1

you've coached around

Speaker 1

the world.

Speaker 2

We set

Speaker 2

up about ten minutes ago to get here. People have probably driven all over the country to come to this event and we still live in Whitworth,

Speaker 1

Even though currently you're working in Connaught, when you look back at what you learnt on that degree, how useful has that been in, particularly in the coaching?

Speaker 2

I think the the broadness of the degree was really useful. So it gave you a lot of the support science and the, you know, the, the physiology if you like, of sport. And then the PGC then led on the ability to teach what you'd learned to people. So taught you how to teach. And that's a brilliant that's a brilliant lecture during the degree but also particularly the PGCE.

Speaker 2

But like Malcolm Butterworth was huge influence on me. He taught me how to teach, really was a very good lecturer. Anyway, then I went on teaching practice to school and also in high school in 92,

Speaker 2

which was a challenge also in particular. And then I shouldn't get a teaching job straight away. My first teaching job was in Morecambe at my school, so I had to travel backwards and forwards to play rugby.

Speaker 2

And then the the job. First real teaching job was at Celtic Park High School in Wakefield and yeah, you know, being taught how to communicate, how to motivate, how to get the best

Speaker 2

out of people, how to differentiate your your lesson plans. And then to do that Monday to Friday, five days fabulous a day, five days a week.

Speaker 2

You know, over the course of eight years, you just develop a huge amount of experience, which means

Speaker 2

that when you actually go and leave teaching into coaching, you've probably done the 10,000 hours, you know, the 10,000 hour rule. You're probably doing the 10,000 hours by the time you're 30. And that's how it was for me. It's 30. Became the academy manager at Leeds, took over as head coach at 35 and then through a sequence of events was coaching England five years later.

Speaker 1

Is it as much as anything that communication piece that you can have brilliant ideas you can have, but if you can't communicate that to the players and teach them, you know.

Speaker 2

Yeah,

Speaker 2

I think it's the communication. It's the ability to create meaningful motivational sessions that really develop them and get the best out of them, particularly in a team sport like rugby, like I've always believed in playing the game within training. And, you know, a lot of my teaching

Speaker 2

was about ten lesson hockey, less than the football lesson. You always play the game and teach within the game.

Speaker 2

So I think I had some very good support. I was also mentored

Speaker 2

by Kevin barring Brian Ashton, Bill basic. So during that post teaching career, well, post degree career into my coaching career, I had had a hell of a lot of support from really, really good mentors as

Speaker 2

well.

Speaker 1

Do you think it's something a sport has got more and more professionalised? Rugby union has gone. Professional football. Been there a long time. That actually that education piece is sometimes getting lost.

Speaker 2

Yeah. I mean, I think, I think probably one of the challenges for that for any sport is that. And in Ruby it's a good example. What happens now is a lot of former players become coaches without any sort of teaching or coaching education. And I didn't play at the highest level. You know,

Speaker 2

as I said, the game was amateur anyway, but I didn't play internationally.

Speaker 2

But I did have the 10,000 hours of teaching. So the ability to communicate, to inspire, motivate,

Speaker 2

hold a room, create as a motivational sessions that improve performance, that stands a lot, sounds a lot. You know, to to ability to to deal with players at the highest level. And I sometimes think because as the game went professional and teams now lean back into, oh, he was a player, therefore

Speaker 2

he can become a coach.

Speaker 2

I'm not sure that's always the case. So I'm very grateful for the journey I took. You know, I mean, to become a coach rather than just being a player who became a coach.

Speaker 1

Seems a very, very long time ago and you've had such incredible success. But it's lovely to hear that this was very much the foundation of what you've gone on to

Speaker 1

do.

Speaker 2

Yeah. For sure. Absolutely. I mean, I love my time in Leeds. I loved the degree. The friends I have from the course are still my best friends now.

Speaker 2

And we were like super busy, like we had Monday to Friday. We said our lectures all the time, and my dissertation was actually on

Speaker 2

an ACL injury and a guy called Andy Tanner, and it was by mechanical devices and psychological analysis of his rehabilitation. So it was just so broad, you know, I mean, but then as you

Speaker 2

mature, as you get through your 20s, you begin to wind out now down to what's your passion?

Speaker 2

My passion really is helping individuals get better and building great teams. And I think that, you know, I'm 56 now, so but I still 25 year olds, I still feel the same age as I did then. Even I'm maybe not same age.

Speaker 1

It's been fantastic to watch how you've developed in your career.

Speaker 2

Thank

Speaker 2

you.

Speaker 2

Speaker 3

So I came to.

Speaker 4

So I competed in the Beijing Paralympic Games. Then after that British weightlifting actually moved the HQ to here. So I thought it'd be, you know, it made sense to come and, you know, be in Leeds.

Speaker 2

When you look around at this gym, this strength and conditioning suite, a little better than you had.

Speaker 4

Oh, this is amazing. Yeah, this is really good. Obviously, I really loved where we were. I just wrote us of it, but this is this is what class? I'll be very, very lucky. We've had this ten years ago.

Speaker 2

So what was it like to be part of that program at that time?

Speaker 4

Exciting, because it became quite professional in Leeds. It laid down the foundations actually, to the future generations of what the program is now. And I think with the team set up and the practitioners that I work with, they

Speaker 4

produced a level where it's been replicated ever since. So I think Leeds was the foundation of what we achieved in the future.

Speaker 4

So we're quite lucky here.

Speaker 2

Did you have to come to do a degree, or was that a choice that you made, that you wanted to get a degree as well as join the

Speaker 2

program?

Speaker 4

We were encouraged to get a degree only because they felt that a distraction would be quite good. But also, you know, you want your social skills to increase and you know what perfect place for them here.

Speaker 2

So did you enjoy doing the degree? Was that something that you welcomed?

Speaker 2

Speaker 4

The fact that I could shut myself from training when it came to lectures and actually doing topics, that I really enjoyed some other sports. Crazy. So for me, the small science degree was it was arbitrary.

Speaker 2

So the competition, I mean, watching you compete to say you were a fearsome competitor is an understatement. You absolutely loved it,

Speaker 2

you.

Speaker 4

Yeah, for me, I like I love the energy from the crowd. I'm someone that needs that to perform. And yeah, I think I kind of developed it here in training. So as I said before, like Rocky Fridays, we'd

Speaker 4

get the soundtrack on full blast and it would be so many people in the gym, but eventually they understood. So I actually developed that here.

Speaker 4

So it was great.

Speaker 2

So that was your mini competition stage, was it?

Speaker 4

Yeah. So every Friday we kind of replicate what condition would look like. And the basis of how I competed actually started it from Leeds. So replicating that every week helped me compete at the highest level actually.

Speaker 2

So when was it that you were diagnosed with Crohn's disease?

Speaker 4

Speaker 2

So how did you did you think about quitting? Did that ever come into your mind?

Speaker 4

Oh, I remember the consultation at the time I diagnosed. He said that from his knowledge, medical science hasn't caught up to a sufferer that competes at that level. They just don't know if it's possible. With the unpredictability of Crohn's and the medication neurones actually quite toxic, the system. So yeah, I at the time people were begging me to

Speaker 4

quit just to focus on my health.

Speaker 4

And I thought, actually, I can't, you know, give away, give away that easy not knowing what was to come. Unfortunately.

Speaker 2

It was a battle, I mean,

Speaker 2

and some, wasn't it?

Speaker 4

Yeah. I think I don't know whether many people would do that to themselves to try and attempt a medal with Crohn's. What we had to go through were I became a

Speaker 4

guinea pig, and eventually we did learn the patterns and what different medications did and how crumbs affected me. But it felt that Crohn's was always

Speaker 4

going to try and deny me a shot at, you know, the games in the middle.

Speaker 4

And we had to really work really hard as a team to try to pull it off. It was we lost so many battles, but I guess we won the war eventually because we hung in there.

Speaker 2

And were you conscious of laying a platform for other Crohn's sufferers who came after you, or was it just your own battle.

Speaker 4

At the time? You really think about other people? And I think for me it was more like, how much can I learn to try and counter it? But what happened was because we learned so much from me, and the elite sporting system is very well

Speaker 4

connected. People with Crohn's that were competing at the highest level wanted to find out how I put it off.

Speaker 4

So all that knowledge was given to other sports.

Speaker 4

And for me, like for example, like Fran Brown triathlon, she won a medal and she's got Crohn's. But the fact that I could share that knowledge to her was amazing. So for me, yeah, we left a legacy that was never really thought about.

Speaker 2

Yeah, not one you'd have wanted necessarily to leave, but one heck of a legacy you have left.

Speaker 4

Yeah, so I'm probably well known for the comebacks rather than my career. And I don't actually mind that because a lot of people focus on medals to define themselves, I guess. I mean, I get to define myself in a way where you can use that in life, rather than the medals around your neck.

Speaker 2

You certainly can. It's been quite some journey.

Speaker 4

Has been a great journey.

Speaker 1

Speaker 1

Thwaite. I always struggled. I

Speaker 1

always struggled with that back in the day. You and I first met when you were you were playing for the Yorkshire Jets here at the university while you were also a student. I mean, what a time that was for

Speaker 1

you.

Speaker 2

Yeah, I absolutely loved my time at Yorkshire Jets. I actually first started when it was officially Leeds Carnegie, the netball team, and then it turned into Yorkshire Jets. So feels like it takes me back to think about those days. But yeah, balancing the sports and academic was challenging but loved everything about being at Leeds.

Speaker 1

So how did you manage that juggle?

Speaker 2

I think communication with my tutors was massive. My tutors on the speech therapy course, Tracy Day, it was just honestly incredible. I would not have graduated without her support and her understanding with helping me work through what my calendar looked like in

Speaker 2

terms of netball and academics. You just have to be super organised. I definitely found it challenging at times and at netball.

Speaker 2

At that point it was called

Speaker 2

into and we would train like before lectures started, so days were very long. What? You make it work. It's what I wanted to do. I was really passionate about doing the degree and I wanted to keep progressing in my netball game. So I think in the netball world it's just what we do.

Speaker 1

How netball has changed in your career? I mean, it's now a professional sport. You can make a living out of it and it gets, you know, big, big viewing figures and big crowds.

Speaker 2

Yeah, I think that ball to go professional is amazing. It's what the sport needed. It's what we all wanted. So I think it's it's definitely still on a journey. I think it's like professional, but there's still lots of more steps for us to go and see the game keep growing. But for us to be playing in big arenas, to be able to have it now as a career, I

Speaker 2

think for youngsters watching us growing the game, that is so important.

Speaker 2

We want people to be watching that ball, coming to view the game, participating in the sport. So yeah, it's definitely an exciting era to be part.

Speaker 1

Of,

Speaker 1

and one of the things that really propelled it to the to the forefront was you winning Commonwealth gold. Talk me through that.

Speaker 2

Speaker 2

grew up watching those girls play and like playing alongside them.

Speaker 2

Speaker 2

Howard be and the last second goal from your heart in the semi-final. Like I think that it was a real journey and it wasn't just about those games. It was the five week build-up before it just if I could ever bottle up a time period that I'd love to relive, it would be that.

Speaker 2

So yeah, it was amazing to be part of that squad and really see the country just unite and get behind us and celebrate the

Speaker 2

game of netball. It was incredible. And off the back of it we saw like participation numbers rise, loads of people talking about the sport. So it was so exciting and I love it. Thinking about back.

Speaker 1

To it, I

Speaker 1

mean the fastest participation growth of any sport wasn't it at the time for a few

Speaker 1

years?

Speaker 2

Yeah, absolutely. And I think that's amazing for us to have experienced and witnessed. I remember like coming back, like flying back in and there were people at the airport waiting. They celebrated us. And I was like, what's going on? Like I've never experienced this before. So I think the fact that people were talking about netball and like, like looking up on the website, England website,

Speaker 2

walking that ball back to netball, people getting back into the game, it was massive for us as sportspeople to as netball as to see and witness, and we want that for the team and we want that for the country, so it was incredible to be part of that.

Speaker 1

You're still very much playing at the highest level, but you're also a mum now. I mean that's another juggling act for you though. Student days and time allocation helping you out.

Speaker 2

Yeah, I will never complain about having to get up before 8:00 Am ever again. I don't think I knew what time it was before balancing like motherhood and sports and like at times it has been super challenging, but I've got an incredible support network around me. My husband Josh, who I met at university here, I'm like grateful and fortunate that he

Speaker 2

like, just picks up and packs up the family and comes to us with us, to all our games.

Speaker 2

And and Miller is just the best thing since sliced bread. Like, she's just incredible. And she's taught me so much about perspective,

Speaker 2

about myself. It was a real journey. It was really hard to get back into the sport and get back to that level, but I was so determined to do it. I wanted nothing more than to get back out there when I was pregnant.

Speaker 2

I really miss playing netball, so for me to be able to be back out there and now see Miller in the stands, clapping and flailing her arms around, it's really exciting.

Speaker 1

And again, being a role model that, you know, girls who want to go on to be professional athletes in whatever their sport, you can have children and come back to the very top. And that's an important message, isn't

Speaker 1

it?

Speaker 2

Absolutely. I think like the previous generations, like even me, when I first started playing, we didn't know if a lot of times people might say, you have a baby and that's the end of your career. And I think we're changing that narrative. And the support in place to help mums get back into the game is

Speaker 2

incredible, and I think it should be there.

Speaker 2

We need that for mums. We want to to be able to show future moms current like current mums, ladies who are pregnant and want to get back into the game, that you can

Speaker 2

be a mum and get yourself back to whatever level of netball you want to do. So I think it's an important message for for the future and I think I've been massively supported at England Netball and my, my, my club team at Manchester, just to get back onto that court and do what I absolutely love doing.

Speaker 1

And when you look to life beyond netball in a few years time, we hope a lot of years

Speaker 1

time. But do you think you'll go back

Speaker 1

and use that degree that you've

Speaker 1

got?

Speaker 2

I get asked this question a lot and my answer is yes. Like in a heartbeat. I went out to Australia and played out there for four years, and so when I came back, I did my retraining. And so I was back on the on the stroke wards

Speaker 2

in a hospital, working with stroke patients and helping them rehab and returning to practice role.

Speaker 2

And I loved it. I absolutely love

Speaker 2

speech therapy. As as passionate as I am about netball, I am about speech therapy as well. And the the desire to to one day be practising as a speech and language therapist is definitely there for me. So I hope in the future at some point I can get back to it.

Speaker 1

I'm sure you will. You're a pretty big character. What you set your mind to, you tend to

Speaker 1

achieve.

Speaker 1

Jamie Peacock, M.B.E..

Speaker 1

Now

Speaker 1

Speaker 2

Speaker 2

businesses running.

Speaker 2

But I did have an eye on going into administration, so I wanted to get some academic knowledge with that, and it was an eye opener for me. I left school at 16. Back then when you left

Speaker 2

16. So jump from being a 16 year old into higher level education. The first 2 or 3 months was difficult and it was a challenge balancing family life, being a professional rugby player and also trying to study as well with it.

Speaker 2

But it's a challenge I enjoyed and also I enjoyed about learning as well. It's been really useful.

Speaker 1

You said. I mean, that is a jump to have not even done A-levels, degree and all of that to go straight to that level. That must have been the first few times. Did imposter syndrome creep in a little

Speaker 1

bit.

Speaker 2

System that everyone's

Speaker 2

talking about. But yeah, I mean, I'm a quick learner and I'm adaptable. So I kind of got to grips and I saw my, the, the, my marking increase throughout the programme as I got to grips with that style of education and what was required from me.

Speaker 1

And quite a few Rhinos players around that time were doing degrees. Was that good that there was a few of you doing stuff?

Speaker 2

Yeah, it was great. We mean, in our class we had Kev was doing the same degree as myself and Phil daily, but it was a had a media as well. So the three of us together really enjoyed, I think, working together and helping each other out on the programme. And so, so good to have somebody going through the same experience as yourself as well.

Speaker 2

I think because you can talk, talk about things you enjoy doing, you can have a bit of a wins with each other as well with it along the way.

Speaker 1

And

Speaker 1

was it nice to have a distraction from the sport because it can, I guess at times, be all consuming?

Speaker 2

Yeah, I've always been a big believer that you your level of performance is on the field are increased. When you are positive distractions away from the sport, it can't be all consuming or you can burn out from it. So for me, I did enjoy the distraction that it brought because it was positive and it was building towards my future

Speaker 2

as well.

Speaker 2

It was difficult with the timings. It meant, you know, all my days off are dedicated towards doing that, but that's the challenge I took on that. Yeah, I did enjoy that side of it.

Speaker 1

And you know, you've been in professional sport for a very long time, but was it an eye opener to what it takes to run a club, a sports organisation?

Speaker 2

Yeah, it's an eye opening to see how things are run and the level of detail goes into it and all the theories behind things and just yeah, I really enjoyed it. I enjoyed our projects that we worked on and just, you know, doing analysis of Super League

Speaker 2

clubs. It was good fun, I thought, and it's good to see, you know, we can make positive and probably negative differences in how you run and how you be an administrator at the time.

Speaker 1

And how did the other students react to you?

Speaker 2

Well, I think I was just talking earlier that it was very interesting because myself, the mature students, me, Kevin and Phil, we were the ones who always had our work in on time three days earlier. Everything else with all this bull time shootings were all last minute with

Speaker 2

it. So I used to think to myself, you've got quietly you might be learning the academic learning, but you've got quite a lot to learn about actual life itself and being organised.

Speaker 1

And yeah. Ever tell.

Speaker 2

Them I might have shared it a couple of times.

Speaker 1

In your own inimitable style?

Speaker 2

Yeah, my my own way of doing things with them.

Speaker 1

And you did go on into sports admin for a little bit, but you're now working in and around businesses and is the degree useful for you in that environment?

Speaker 2

Yeah, in what I'm doing now is useful for me. It has been helpful because I think it gives you that theory insight into business. I've got a lot of lived and experience of what winning looks like, what leadership looks like, but not that academic theory behind it. And I think being able

Speaker 2

to have both of those that allows me to develop good leadership programmes because I know what their theory and modelling looks like.

Speaker 2

But then I also got the lived in

Speaker 2

experience of doing it as well. I think combining those two has been huge, super helpful for me, and I think you obviously don't know what you don't know, but the, the, the knowledge I learnt on the program has been super useful for me. Really

Speaker 2

useful.

Speaker 1

And also nice to prove to yourself, having left at 16 that actually you were an academic kid as well.

Speaker 2

Yeah it was, yeah, it was good. And I think it's a good example for my, my kids as well. You know, it's not only about being professional sport. You've got to be educated behind it as well. And education is important. And to be a lifelong learner is important to as well. So I think that hopefully influence them as

Speaker 2

well.

Speaker 1

So influenced your kids and maybe a few of the students around you as

Speaker 1

well.

Speaker 2

Yeah, hopefully both of them. Yeah. Yeah, in a positive way.