Our Hannover Messe countdown series—featuring Ontario manufacturers and technology companies that will be showcasing at the world's largest industrial technology trade fair—continues with Pablo Molina, Co-Founder & CTO of Kitchener-based Avidbots.

In this episode, Pablo shares Avidbots' journey from a small office in Waterloo to a multinational company shipping autonomous cleaning robots around the world. Pablo pulls no punches about Canada’s lagging adoption of robotics and lack of investment in scaling up the industry, both of which are challenges that he and the Canadian Robotics Council (CRC) are working to address.

The episode concludes with a preview of Avidbots' participation at Hannover Messe 2025, and his take on the rumours, thus far, of which musical act will be playing at NGen’s Hannover Messe reception.

• 03:41 Avidbots’ Journey
• 07:16 Avidbots' Products and Innovations
• 11:20 Challenges and Future of Robotics
• 14:36 Hardware, Software, and the Kitchener-Waterloo Ecosystem
• 17:03 How We Can Help Canadian Companies Scale Up 
• 22:46 The Role of CRC in Canadian Robotics
• 26:10 Avidbots at Hannover Messe
• 28:32 What Pablo is Excited About in 2025
• 30:17 Whether Avidbots Will Stay in Canada
• 35:26 Musical Rumors

Find Out More about Avidbots and the Canadian Robotics Council

• Avidbots website: avidbots.com
• Canadian Robotics Council website: roboticscouncil.ca

Find Out More About Trillium

• Trillium website: trilliummfg.ca
• Trillium GIS: trilliumgis.ca
• LinkedIn: linkedin.com/company/trilliummfg
• X/Twitter: x.com/TrilliumMfg
• Instagram: instagram.com/trilliummfg
• Facebook: facebook.com/trilliummfg
• Old ‘Making it in Ontario’ Episodes: https://soundcloud.com/making-it-in-ontario-past

About the Making it in Ontario Podcast

Making it in Ontario is your window into what's next in manufacturing. Ontario’s economy depends on manufacturing, but the latest research reveals concerning trends that could undermine the sector’s strength—if we don’t address them. Join us as we talk to CEOs and other leaders at the forefront of the sector about productivity, strategy, talent markets and career opportunities, and the role of manufacturing in a prosperous and sustainable future.

This podcast is an initiative of the Trillium Network for Advanced Manufacturing. It is produced by Storied Places Media.

Welcome to Making it in Ontario, your window into what's next in

2

Ontario's manufacturing sector from the

data driven researchers at the Trillium

3

Network for Advanced Manufacturing.

4

I'm Michelle Samson.

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Brendan Sweeney: And I'm Brendan Sweeney.

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Michelle Samson: Okay, Brendan.

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This is episode three in a series of five

episodes focused on Ontario companies

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that are exhibiting at Hannover Messe.

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Brendan Sweeney: Yeah, and we're

gonna talk to, uh, Pablo Molina of

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Avidbots today, uh, Waterloo based.

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And stay tuned next week

for Waterloo-based company.

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Um, we're gonna hear from, uh, Greta

Cutulenco of Acerta Analytics, one of

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the leading AI companies in Canada.

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Michelle Samson: Yeah, so we're

really looking forward to that one.

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But, for this episode with Pablo,

we're really in for a great one.

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I, you know, better get ready for this.

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He's got some hot takes.

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Brendan Sweeney: Yeah, and some of

them kind of hearken back to what we

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learned from some of our guests in

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Michelle Samson: Yeah, in that season

we talked a lot about productivity.

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We talked about scaling up.

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Giles Gerson brought up the Christmas

Tree farm analogy, which if you remember

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that it was that we start building

these companies and then they get kind

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of cut off and they get sent elsewhere

and we're not keeping them in Canada.

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Uh, so, you know, all of

these themes keep popping up.

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Brendan Sweeney: Yeah, and so

Pablo has some ideas about how to

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keep these companies in Canada,

and we kind of dig those ideas.

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Um, but yeah, these

themes keep popping up.

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So I guess we're, we're

hitting a nerve somewhere.

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We're focused on the right stuff.

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And you know, one of the themes that

come up today that we've heard before is

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how great it is for, technology enabled

manufacturers, like Avidbots, uh, to be

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located in and around the Waterloo region.

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And so that keeps popping up.

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And so we're really

seeing something there.

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Um, maybe we knew that already

and we're just validating that.

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But, um, it's a recurring

theme throughout this podcast.

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Michelle Samson: It's tempting to say

there's something in the water, but

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we all know it's much more than that.

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Brendan Sweeney: Yeah.

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In the Grand River.

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That Grand River water.

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Michelle Samson: Ha ha!

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And, uh, yeah, we, as we've been

doing for the past couple episodes,

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we are wrapping this one up with,

um, a bit of a musical bent.

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We're continuing to spread rumours.

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Brendan Sweeney: Yeah.

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Spread rumours, speculate.

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Um, but what we learned is that in a

past life or maybe in a past life and in

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his current life, Pablo is a musician.

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He was in a band, they were on the scene

in Toronto for a while and we didn't

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know that, and so that's pretty cool.

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Michelle Samson: And he's gonna be,

uh, tapping into this, uh, this musical

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background that he has to give his

feedback on some of our predictions

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for NGen's reception at Hannover.

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Brendan Sweeney: Yeah, and I do like

that he kind of validates one of

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my ideas, but um, yeah, stay tuned.

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To learn more.

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Um, and interestingly enough, this

idea keeps getting validated because

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Greta might have some similar thoughts,

but, uh, but we'll see about that.

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So

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Michelle Samson: All right,

and here's the episode.

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Brendan Sweeney: Pablo,

thanks for joining us.

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Uh, we understand that Avidbots

turned ten last year?

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Pablo Molina: Uh, yeah,

it has turned 10 years.

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Yeah, we incorporated in January 2014.

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So yeah, it's been over 10 years now.

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Brendan Sweeney: Based in Kitchener,

Ontario in the Waterloo region?

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Pablo Molina: Yeah, our first office was

in Waterloo, then we moved to Kitchener.

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So yeah, our headquarters in Kitchener.

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We now have offices in, in Columbia,

India, Australia and also in the US.

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Brendan Sweeney: Wow, so

tell us a bit about yourself.

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Tell us a bit about Avidbots and tell us

a bit about the journey from, you know,

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a small office in Waterloo to being a

multinational Kitchener-based company.

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Pablo Molina: It is been definitely,

very exciting, very thrilling, uh, lots

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of ups and downs, rollercoaster, yeah.

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So we started in 2014, uh, basically

with my classmate Faizan Sheikh.

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He and I, we've always been

interested in robotics.

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Uh, when I was doing grad school,

it became very apparent to me how

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underutilized were robotics in the field.

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Like in everyday life we

rarely run into a robot.

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And me coming from Waterloo and from my

master's as well, it was disappointing,

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and it is still disappointing.

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Robotics is at a very good place when

it comes to the core technologies, but

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you don't see them deployed as much.

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And so this is where we started

looking, I guess, what to do.

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And we in fact started

doing snow cleaning.

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We weren't doing floor

cleaning right away.

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And when we were doing customer

discovery, it became apparent to us

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cleaning is a very good application

because for service robots because

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it happens very often every night.

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So you are looking at cleaning

many hours every night.

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So a very strong ROI so that very

clearly became our main goal.

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And yeah, the reality is, uh, I think

we made some good decisions product wise

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and we're using the latest technology

that we were available at the time.

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And so we were able to enter

the market and do well.

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We were able to really solve the

customer problem in a much better way.

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It's been quite exciting to

watch the growth of the industry.

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When we started, it was very, very small.

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Now I think it's getting close to the $1.2

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billion, the whole

cleaning robotics industry.

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So it's amazing to watch it go from,

back then, one of our competitors used

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to use sonar and you know, we come

in with LIDAR, we're like disruptive.

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Then to watch now how things are changing

again with 3D LIDARs and all this stuff.

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So it is amazing to have been through

all these changes and this evolution.

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And, yeah, it is been always our

goal at Avidbots to become a large

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company to eventually, hopefully, go

into the billion dollar evaluation

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going public, all those goals.

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That's still very much a north star.

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The market is there.

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I think we gotta keep at it.

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We gotta keep working on it.

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Our product is very good and we just

have to basically, yeah, make it happen.

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And, of course, as we

scale, challenges change.

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Challenges intensify.

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We joke that it's a bit like the Olympics.

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I guess like every stage of the company,

chances of success get harder and harder.

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But we're here for the fight and we wanna

take it all the way and we think we can.

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And certainly Canada a lot

more of this billion dollar

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headquarter in Canada companies.

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We're huge fans of Shopify and

what it's done to, the whole

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community and the whole industry.

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And I think we need to learn from that.

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I think this is amazing how many

people they employ, how many

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co-op students work there, how

the whole thing has transformed.

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And so I think robotics

definitely needs that in Canada.

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Brendan Sweeney: So tell

us, and spare no detail.

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What is an Avidbot?

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What does it do?

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What kind of technology

was in it 10 years ago?

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What kind of technology is in it today?

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Pablo Molina: So we make

two products so far.

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We have Neo, which is a large

floor scrubber is basically, uh,

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more for industrial facilities,

for train stations, for malls.

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And then we have Kas, which

is a smaller scrubber.

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Both of them are floor scrubbers,

basically a machine that washes the

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floor of the high traffic facilities.

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At heart, I think Avidbots our

main differentiation is that we,

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we really believe in a really

good experience for the customer.

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We're firm believers that you

walk to a robot and you press the

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button and it needs to clean the

whole place without any assistance.

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And I think that's the big differentiator.

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If you look at some of our Asian

competitors and to some of our

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American competitors, we have

the lowest intervention rate

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and the highest reliability.

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So reliability and low intervention

have been paramount from day one.

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And yeah, it's been quite fun and

challenging to, to make that happen and

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the product has improved tremendously.

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To give you a high level idea of how

it evolved, we were very pragmatic on

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what we, entered, uh, what we attacked.

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So we first attacked shopping malls.

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Shopping malls are empty at night.

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There's nothing going on.

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Is an environment that's very static.

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That's how we started.

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So we just cleaned malls and then,

okay, let's go clean colleges.

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Colleges are also fairly

static, fairly the same.

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And then we started doing warehouses.

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Warehouses, uh, to our discovery

are not actually that static.

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They're very dynamic

and they change a lot.

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So that was a big difficulty.

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So we were very pragmatic.

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And so as a company, I think we do have

another differentiation, most likely

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is we have vertical specific software.

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A lot of companies are there like,

yeah, robots just work everywhere.

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That's just not true.

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In warehouses there's very particular

challenges, particular obstacles,

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particular situations that for a

robot to truly be autonomous, you,

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you really need to handle well.

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And that's what we have done.

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So, uh, I think that's gonna evolve.

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And then of course, Kas

is really the next stage.

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We managed to achieve very

good levels of safety and high

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reliability with a lower cost.

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So it's a whole new, uh, perception

system, a whole new robot.

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Now this is very much for retail stores.

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Retail stores they're, as you can

imagine, even more dynamic, even

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more challenges, more complexities.

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And so yeah, we're super happy to

see Kas now released in the field.

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We released it last year in the

summer and it's been doing quite well.

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Uh, it's been able to really

delight people and we're now

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talking to a lot of large customers.

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So very exciting and that's a very large

part of the market, so we'll keep at it.

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We need to keep improving,

much of things to do.

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And yeah, our goal eventually is

to have a portfolio of products.

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Potentially vacuuming,

potentially sweeping.

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I think when we make the vacuum

cleaner, we're looking at even

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reducing the cost even further.

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That is also another difference I would

say with a lot of robotics companies

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out there and Avidbots, is we, due

to the nature of our industry, we

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cannot make a hundred thousand dollar

robot because we won't have an ROI.

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We have to make it cheaper and

it is gonna get very exciting.

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That's where, Kas is like a 22 inch.

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If we make an 18 inch machine, uh,

be it a vacuum or be it a scrubber,

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I'm personally quite excited because

we will have to make it cheaper.

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And so you start getting to a point where

like you can start being able to rent

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these machines for like $500 a month.

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And that's when I can

start seeing this whole...

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I can talk for a long time about this

whole trend of multi-application robotics.

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Like, maybe you get a robot that

does your floor for $500 bucks, but

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then you pay it a hundred dollars

and it becomes your security guard.

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You pay it a hundred dollars, it

becomes your concierge at the front,

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or a hundred dollars and it goes around

checking for hazards in your facility.

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Like those are the kind of

things that like, will you pay

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$30,000 for a hazard robot?

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You probably won't, but if you

already have one and you're paying

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like a little bit, just kind of

what happened with computers, kind

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of what happened with the phones.

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It's just a natural evolution,

I think that hopefully will

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happen too, in our industry.

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Michelle Samson: So Pablo, if I understood

correctly earlier, you talked about how,

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like, there's still just so much more room

for people to be adopting robotics, but

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that there still may be some hesitation

there or, you know, some, some friction.

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What are those friction points?

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And are you doing anything

to try and smooth those out?

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Pablo Molina: Yeah so there, there

is this publication I really like,

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like it's called the, I guess,

inflection points of industries.

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You've seen it in computers, seen it

in cell phones that it's going very low

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and then just exponential growth, right?

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It takes over and it starts reaching

the hundreds of thousands of

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units a year kind of numbers that

we all wanna see in industries.

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They call it basically a combination

of, uh, cultural buy-in, economic

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impetus, and just like reliability

and operation of the system.

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I think that's a very good summary of what

it takes to achieve an inflection point.

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I'm very happy to say, you know, we

started Avidbots and people would put

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our robot online, we'll be cleaning

the Eaton Centre, right, with Neo,

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and people put online and they'll be

like, oh, it's taking this guy's job.

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It's so sad, this and that.

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And so I would say, like, 50%

of the comments were negative.

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But now we have a bunch of Neos

in Walmart and they're making

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TikToks, so they're, it's hilarious.

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I absolutely love watching what

people do to robots and how they

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anthropomorphize them, and they think

of them as friends, and it's just,

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highly recommend, very entertaining.

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But, uh, yeah, then you read the comments

and it's like, 70% of them are positive.

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They're like, oh my God, it's so cool.

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So I have seen like personally,

viscerally myself, a radical,

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uh, cultural adoption change.

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Perhaps the pandemic helped.

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I think just in general, people just

get it more so that is one that is hard

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to touch, hard to change, but it is

now, I will say, in the positive trend.

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Of course economic impetus, if anything,

I think is potentially the biggest.

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If you could tell me tomorrow that

like making your car drive by itself

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costed a thousand dollars more.

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Will you do it?

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Like I'm sure any consumer in this world

will pay a thousand dollars to have their

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autonomous, now, if you go tell me, oh

no, autonomous car is $300,000, I don't

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know how many people are gonna afford it.

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So, the good thing is that as

the sensors are changing in price,

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computer has changing price.

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I will tell you, it is

been just amazing, right?

252

Like when I was a grad student, 3D

LIDAR was, you know, $30,000, $60,000.

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I had a GPU that did like two

hundred gigaflops and I was like

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so proud and it was like 400 watts.

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I needed like double

power supply and stuff.

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Today that thing is running in like

five watts, like it's unbelievable.

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And there's now 3D LIDARs out

there that cost like $400.

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What used to cost $60,000

when I was a grad student.

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So it's to watch that.

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And so economic impetus is gonna

get better as things get cheaper.

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And then, yeah, then the operation

of the machine I think is just

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time and doing things right.

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So, to answer your question, maybe

long-winded way, as we get cheaper

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and cheaper in the price of robots,

and as ideas, like that you pay

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because it's a cleaning robot, but then

you can use all these other things.

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I think the age for this multipurpose

robot, it's not here today.

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Is it here in the next five years?

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I think so.

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And so this whole more exponential

growth hopefully starts happening,

270

yeah, in the next five years, or so.

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Brendan Sweeney: So you are

producing robots, hardware.

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Within that hardware, within that robot,

there was a lot of software and there's

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a lot of advanced technology throughout

one of your autonomous cleaning robots.

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But how does that interplay between

the hardware and the software work in

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the company, in the design stage, in

the testing stage, in the production

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stage, and in the servicing stage?

277

Because this is, we're really seeing a

lot more companies that are traditionally

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understood to be manufacturers, but when

you dig around, you're kind of like, well,

279

you're kind of a software company that

just has a vehicle for its software too.

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And many of these are located

in and around Waterloo.

281

Um, how does that all play out on a

day-to-day, on a week to week, on a month

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to month basis, you know, in Kitchener?

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Pablo Molina: Yeah, that's a very

multi-variable question, I guess.

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There's a saying in the robotic

industry, it's called the decathlon

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of startups, because if you're a

startup doing robotics, it's like

286

even harder than normal startups.

287

And it is true, we have to do a web

application, we have to do mechanical,

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electrical, firmware, navigation

localization, perception planning.

289

So there's a very wide set of efforts and

then we have to get manufacturing, right?

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So there's a lot of things

that have to get done right.

291

Uh, and so yeah, it is

certainly challenging.

292

I think, yeah, you're right, there's

lots of software companies out there.

293

I do think robotics is like hardware

enabled software in a way, really.

294

And, and yeah, oftentimes it

becomes a lot about the software,

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about the quality of the software.

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But again, I don't think we should

discount the importance of getting

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the hardware right as well.

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I think, uh, Kitchener-Waterloo is,

I don't think we do a good job at

299

advertising ourselves, to be honest.

300

I think we're a bit of a hidden gem when

it comes to the concentration of talent

301

and knowledge, uh, especially for the

kind of the series A, series B, seed,

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kind of a skillset and suppliers and

supply chain, and knowledge, really.

303

I mean, ATS is here,

such an amazing company.

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So many great automation companies.

305

There are so many knowledgeable

automation engineers around.

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University of Waterloo, terrific job.

307

Uh, same with U of T and all this whole

southwestern Ontario, there's lots

308

of knowledge here and lots of good

suppliers, uh, quality suppliers, lots

309

of know-how to do manufacturing, lots

of know-how to do hardware engineering,

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and good suppliers for low quantity.

311

And then of course the

talent and the software too.

312

So very multilevel here.

313

So it's really a great place

to do this kind of thing.

314

Yeah.

315

I guess the thing we need to work

on is maybe after that, like,

316

series B to get them to become, you

know, public companies, unicorns.

317

That is the part where I think we need to

pay attention to, because it's where we're

318

not succeeding, at least in robotics.

319

But I don't know about other areas.

320

Brendan Sweeney: What do you think

we could do specifically there?

321

Uh, and I agree with you that we

could be doing a better job there.

322

What do you think we could be doing

better or that we aren't doing that we

323

should start doing to achieve that, to

help companies in the scale up phase?

324

Pablo Molina: That's a very hard question.

325

I have ideas, but they are not gonna

be comfortable ideas, I don't think.

326

So number one, investment in this

country is lacking in that space.

327

[Unintelligible] has had

to go somewhere else.

328

There's not that many VCs

in that stage in Canada.

329

I also don't see, uh, government

strategies to support that.

330

If you look at China, Korea, Singapore,

Denmark, Sweden, all of them have scale,

331

basically groups for this kind of thing.

332

VCs and that kind of stuff.

333

I guess we have EDC, but in other

countries, they have mandates, right?

334

And they're much more focused.

335

So investment, big problem.

336

Uh, another one is adoption of robotics.

337

So, uh, I will speak

specifically about robotics.

338

I'm sorry I can't speak about everything.

339

I'll talk about robotics.

340

Canada is struggling.

341

We are not good in adoption

of robotics at all.

342

We are, uh, sadly if you take automotive

out of the equation, because you should,

343

because Toyota, yes, there's a lot

of great Canadian engineers, amazing

344

people, nothing to them, but of course

a lot of the things is from Japan.

345

So there's a bit of a mix.

346

So if we take out automotive, Canada

is the worst in adoption of robotics in

347

the G20, and that's not a overstatement.

348

That's a fact.

349

Let's take a pause and look at Denmark.

350

In Denmark, the top three

robotics companies have a

351

revenue over $200 million.

352

Thirty percent of their

sales, it stays in Denmark.

353

In Canada, actually, the CRC, I'm

part of the Canadian Robotics Council,

354

we're hopefully working on a grant

to get money to do this research.

355

We haven't done the research, but my

personal opinion is that our revenue

356

staying in Canada, of the top five

Canadian robotics companies, less

357

than 5%, like I guarantee you.

358

So, it's hard to create an ecosystem

where nobody uses the thing.

359

I remember when I was, we were a startup,

series A, we had to go sell robots in

360

Australia, go sell robots in Singapore.

361

That's my first customer.

362

I had to ship.

363

We had some problems with the first

units, so the key engineers flew to

364

like Singapore to fix it and stuff.

365

It's not good.

366

We, you don't get that quick feedback.

367

It's hard.

368

It's hard.

369

It could be a lot easier

and it should be easier.

370

So why is there no adoption?

371

I can talk to you about

that for a long time.

372

Again, the government could have

a bit of a strategy about it.

373

Other jurisdictions, like Michigan,

Missouri, they have many programs

374

in place to ferment and to give

some grants to people to do this.

375

We started to do that in

Canada, but very slowly.

376

Uh, I don't see a national

strategy or an importance of

377

robotics as a key technology.

378

I think that's impacting that

second pair when in other

379

countries they put it in place.

380

And then last but not least,

training, of course, but I think

381

training is also part of all this.

382

So, I would summarize it like that.

383

I think that's kind of what

is needed to really scale.

384

I also do see one thing, it's gonna

be a bit tough statement, I guess,

385

but, maybe with this tariffs and the

currency situation, this is gonna

386

improve, but I would love to see a

lot more national pride and a lot

387

more like, no, we have to make it to

the billion dollars and go public.

388

And, uh, I do see a lot of, uh, in

the community, the celebration of

389

selling your company for a hundred

mil to Google, Microsoft, whatever.

390

Like that's like, Oh my God.

391

Amazing.

392

Thank you.

393

You killed it.

394

If you go to Silicon Valley and you

get into these meetups and you talk

395

to these people, it's incredible.

396

Everybody around you is like, oh yeah,

I sold like, you know, $2 billion.

397

I've made three companies

a billion dollars.

398

Yeah, you know, whatever.

399

Then they become investors and so it's

all like this kind of a cycle, right?

400

We can't have an ecosystem and

a cycle when as soon as you get

401

to a hundred mil, boom, right?

402

And then a lot of those things that are

sold become very successful, become huge.

403

Like I, maybe I'm countering my own

point, but in Denmark is the same

404

like Universal Robots, they sold

Universal Robots for $300 million.

405

Their revenue is close to $150 right now.

406

So like, uh, I, I'm not sure if the

Danish government and the Danish

407

co-founders are happy now, they may

be a little disappointed of their

408

decision, but it speaks to that, is

like, you plant the seeds and you do

409

the hard work, and then the benefits

and the margins and the revenue and the

410

earnings are all for somebody else later.

411

Then you didn't stay in Canada.

412

Okay, that's maybe a strong, I'm

opinionated, but I've noticed in

413

trends and I have data points, and

so it is a strong opinion, but I

414

think there's some data behind.

415

Brendan Sweeney: Yeah, I think it

resonates in some of your comments too

416

about, you know, well we can develop

and build these robots in Canada, but

417

it's hard to find a customer in Canada.

418

This sounds similar to our medical

device industry where we can build

419

some really cool, some really

useful medical devices in Ontario.

420

But to get them into an Ontario

hospital is really hard.

421

But at the same time, UPMC and the

Mayo Clinic are champing at the

422

bit to buy Ontario made technology.

423

And so I think we're speaking

the same language here.

424

I think we're on the same track.

425

And you know, some of that

research with the CRC.

426

You mentioned, I mean, that's

something that we can get behind

427

and that we can help with.

428

And while we're on it, why don't you tell

us a bit about the CRC and your role in

429

it and what you're looking to do there?

430

Pablo Molina: CRC, really

exciting development.

431

Uh, I was with them from a long

time, I guess, but, so it is

432

a volunteer run organization.

433

We are all trying to do is unify

the voice of robotics in Canada.

434

Again, we're firm believers

that, robotics is a technology.

435

It is amazing what it

can do to the country.

436

we're talking about our

productivity problems.

437

We're talking about how we're the worst in

the G20 and adopting advanced automation.

438

We've been saying this for the past five

years, and now I guess it's becoming

439

front and center, which is good.

440

We're happy.

441

We're like, yeah, we've been saying that.

442

so, that's the whole goal here is to try

and really unify our voices and become

443

the place where we can all come together

and talk more and try and move the, you

444

know, some of the conversations forward.

445

Um, the CRC is divided into like

a government committee, education

446

committee, and the industrial committee.

447

And we have, uh, outdoor

robotics and indoor robotics.

448

I am the co-chair of the

industrial indoor robotics.

449

Then we also, I'm also part of the

executive group and part of the board.

450

We're hoping to, yeah, soon

be able to have an executive

451

director, hopefully this year.

452

And so we're slowly growing.

453

Um, I guess maybe the big projects that

we're working on, one of the things

454

we're doing is like a Canadian Robotics

Test Center, so we want to have a

455

place to showcase Canadian robotics and

also just robotics in general and help

456

with this adoption problem, help with

the education, help with, uh, we're

457

calling it like, I guess, automation

analysis that we will take an SME and

458

then understand their problems and then

suggest them a robotics technology.

459

So we are working on that.

460

We have about, uh, $700,000 in donations

from Canadian robotics companies.

461

We're working to try and get some more

funding to actually open up the center.

462

We're envisioning like a 10,000

square foot facility, constant motion,

463

a lot of people coming to learn.

464

And yeah, just to try and

centers of excellence like this

465

exist throughout the world.

466

Germany, the usual suspects, Korea,

you'll hear me say China, Korea,

467

Denmark, Germany, and all these countries

over and over again because all of

468

them are doing very well on this.

469

And all of them have

multitude of test centers.

470

So anyway, so that's one

of the big initiatives.

471

I guess other initiatives of course, is we

do reports and we do a yearly symposium.

472

So I will highly recommend anybody

in the that is interested to

473

learn more about robotics in

Canada, that is the place to go.

474

Is a great, great conference.

475

Lots of amazing speakers.

476

We publish, also reports

out of each conference.

477

I highly recommend going to our website,

the Canadian Robotics Council website,

478

and you can download the reports.

479

Really, really good information there.

480

That's the hope is we wanna dig deeper

and really explain with more pragmatic

481

data, the impact that we have on the

GDP and the potential growth here.

482

To hopefully get a bit more attention

and more of a strategy going for

483

the long term for Canadian robotics.

484

Brendan Sweeney: I can confirm

it is a great conference.

485

I was at the last one in June, 2024.

486

And, um, packed room, great conversation,

great food, great view, uh, from

487

up top where we were last year.

488

And I am very much looking

489

Um, Michelle, any?

490

Michelle Samson: No, I think that's

a good transition to Hannover.

491

Brendan Sweeney: It sure is.

492

So Avidbots will be on

display at hannover.

493

Uh, what are we gonna see?

494

Why should we be excited about

seeing Avidbots at Hannover?

495

And why is Avidbots as a company

excited about going to Hannover?

496

Pablo Molina: Yeah.

497

No, it was really exciting.

498

Yeah, really thankful to NGen and

to the whole Canadian government.

499

Huge move here.

500

Lots of effort to co-host

the whole conference.

501

So, really great to see, is a great idea,

uh, even more now with the whole situation

502

that we're having with the United States.

503

We are gonna be sending Kas.

504

It's smaller.

505

Europe is very tight, even

the malls there very small.

506

Everything is just smaller.

507

So, yeah, Kas is the

perfect robot for this.

508

We tried to sell Neo a few years ago.

509

It was a bit hard, Europe is

just very tight and so, yeah.

510

And then of course Kas also has

the latest safety standards,

511

everything properly for that market.

512

So, we're looking at Germany, France,

and UK and everything, and, super,

513

super appreciative of the effort

of the trade commissioners there.

514

We're talking to them, trying

to get some help to settle down.

515

We're looking to the distributors, so

yeah, that's kind of what we're doing

516

is really lining up a bunch of meetings.

517

It's, uh, amazing, really, like we

haven't done anything and we just put

518

our name and we already have all this

inbound, uh, from people attending

519

the conference wanting to speak.

520

They're very organized

in Europe, it seems.

521

Very, like, I wanna make a

schedule of what I'm gonna do.

522

North America you just show up and

whatever and, but no, Europe seems very,

523

yeah, you have to prepare and it's very

good, very, very happy to see that.

524

Uh, so yeah, we'll have Kas and it's

gonna be running around in the pavilion.

525

That's gonna be cool.

526

It's not gonna be cleaning, but

it's going to be driving around.

527

Uh, so yeah, hopefully we can attract

some interest, Germany is super exciting.

528

They're very into cleaning.

529

Uh, they clean their grocery

stores three times a day.

530

That's cool.

531

And so, you know, selling them a cleaning

robot to a country that is so into

532

cleaning is hopefully a good thing.

533

And, you know, labor rates are high and

everything, so we're excited about that.

534

Again, our product, we stand

for reliability and quality

535

and low intervention rate.

536

And so I think those values

resonate a lot with those

537

countries and the way they operate.

538

Brendan Sweeney: Mm-hmm.

539

Do you have any videos of one of

your robots doing its thing, cleaning

540

something with a cat riding it?

541

Pablo Molina: That's a good idea!

542

Brendan Sweeney: Because, if you

don't, maybe we need to, I've

543

got a cat, and we could maybe-

544

Pablo Molina: We need to do that.

545

I have a video with my daughter,

when she was very little, she sat

546

on top and then was driving around.

547

So I have that.

548

I didn't post it anywhere.

549

Brendan Sweeney: Makes sense to me.

550

Michelle Samson: Cute kids and cats.

551

Brendan Sweeney: Yeah, we'll leave

this stuff up to the marketing people.

552

Pablo Molina: That's right.

553

Brendan Sweeney: Yeah,

so, um, this is great.

554

Big things in 2025 from Avidbots,

555

things in 2025 at Hannover Messe.

556

What's the one thing out of all this

stuff, whether it's Avidbots, whether it's

557

a CRC, whether it's Hannover, what are

558

Pablo Molina: Uh, yeah, I mean they're

all, I think, exciting in different ways.

559

Uh, yeah, Hannover is,

it is just a good job.

560

It's great to see Canada

taking a leadership stance.

561

You often don't see that

in other conferences.

562

So it's, I think it's very smart

to support the Canadian companies

563

that are going, so kudos to that.

564

That's the kind of support I was

talking about in the commercialization

565

and scaling stage that, you know,

we don't have too much and I think

566

that's a step in the right direction.

567

They should slowly continue to do that.

568

and it is actual help, right?

569

Like they actually help you shipping

things and they support you economically.

570

So I think it, it makes a difference

and it's very appreciated.

571

I'm excited again about the future and

the growth that we have at Avidbots.

572

So excited to have Kas released

and Kas working well, and we are

573

working on some large deals that

can really help us move forward.

574

And yeah, just reach a scale really,

which we've been looking for a while.

575

And then the CRC of course, we've been

hard at work for a while, is happy that

576

it's growing and, and scaling up in

size, and let's see how this current

577

situation can change that or improve that.

578

I hope that whatever ends up happening

with economic stimulus or whatever,

579

uh, is diverted towards this kind

of efforts and towards a heightened

580

importance on advanced automation and

making us more productive as a country.

581

I hope it goes well and I think that's

just gonna pay dividends down the line.

582

Uh.

583

So hopefully there's attention

to that and we can move forward.

584

Uh, yeah, indeed.

585

This is an exciting year.

586

Robotics is going up and yeah,

Again, we're not yet in that

587

inflection point, coming soon

and so we just gotta keep at it.

588

Michelle Samson: Well, Pablo, the

subtext has been there throughout,

589

but can we get on the record that

when Avidbots becomes a unicorn

590

that you will be staying in Canada?

591

Pablo Molina: You have no idea how...

592

Well, as long as I am

here, that's for sure.

593

As long as I am here, uh,

headquarters, at least R&D has to be...

594

We owe it to these people.

595

I mean, I'm a cog in

this beautiful system.

596

There is amazing cogs in this

beautiful system called Avidbots,

597

and they are the ones who have helped

build this, who have made the robots

598

better and to make everything happen.

599

So I mean, it absolutely,

I think it's so important.

600

It's amazing to watch Shopify and

how much is impacted, how many, they

601

hired, like, I've heard like a

thousand co-op students or something

602

a year or something like that.

603

It's like, oh God.

604

Michelle Samson: Wow.

605

Pablo Molina: And like, and yeah,

because they're huge company.

606

They have a lot of code,

and imagine what that means.

607

That's kind of what I mean.

608

Like, I hope this changes the narrative.

609

I hope our government and the institutions

that provide this kind of funding pay

610

attention to the fact of how different

it is that you open a Google office

611

versus you helping with that same

money, uh, opening or supporting local

612

headquartered in Canada companies.

613

It's just night and day, what

it does to the economy and

614

all the earnings stay here.

615

And then they went to TSX, I guess.

616

Sure.

617

But like, that's different.

618

I guess what stock marketing

gets published in is a harder,

619

more complex conversation.

620

So I don't know about that,

about whether we'll, who knows?

621

I hope to have that problem, to have

to debate between NASDAQ and TSX.

622

But, uh, anyway, that,

that's a different one.

623

But no, I think headquarters in

Canada will always be the thing.

624

I think it's the guys who build

it and this is where all the

625

know-how is where we wanna keep it.

626

This is where I hope a lot of

these guys go make startups later.

627

We gotta have more and I hope our

government, yeah, supports that more and

628

that makes it a bit of a priority and a

bit of a thing that they need to support

629

because yeah, this is how it's done.

630

10 years of this, this is

how Silicon Valley is built.

631

This is how those kind of networks

begin to happen, and we're kind of

632

chopping it off in the middle now

and shipping it off somewhere else

633

and it, we're never going to...

634

Okay, this will be also maybe be an

opinionated statement, but super happy for

635

all the EV efforts and all these things

that are being invested for Volkswagen.

636

I'm curious though, like, if all

this investment, if a billion of

637

dollars of that was put towards VC

funds to help local ground companies.

638

Because that's what happens in China,

that's what happens in Denmark.

639

Like, there's dedicated billion

dollar funds dedicated to grow

640

and scale robotics companies.

641

I have witnessed an unbelievable change

in the supply chain and robotics.

642

When I started, nothing came from China.

643

Not a single encoder, not a

single sensor, not a single motor.

644

Today, like good luck building a

robot without parts from China.

645

Like you just won't be able to.

646

You'll be more expensive.

647

When I started it was

German or Japanese LIDARs.

648

Now, we're no longer using

German, we're using Chinese.

649

And it's going to be like that.

650

They're amazing.

651

High quality.

652

And so this is what happens

when you focus, right?

653

When you put your head down, you put

the money and you support the smart

654

people, they're gonna make it happen.

655

It's just, but are you

going to do it right?

656

I don't see us being very

nationalist and investing our

657

resources in a nationalist way.

658

I hope this current situation changes

that and makes us more focused on

659

supporting locally grown and we

realize the value that it can bring.

660

And Shopify, with all the

respect to everybody, it's not

661

a government supported success.

662

It's completely organic from them.

663

Yes, it's in Ottawa.

664

Great.

665

But did Ottawa and the support system

and the network made it happen?

666

If I go back to looking at our

competitors in China, it's amazing.

667

The amount of funding they get from

the Chinese government is incredible.

668

The same for the suppliers that

we're using for the LIDARs.

669

Like it's, the government

is very involved.

670

The same in Denmark.

671

Like all the big successes

are all heavily, heavily, uh,

672

supported by the government.

673

So that's the point.

674

They get that if they do that,

there's a lot of dividends.

675

I hope that that's understood

a bit more wider in Canada.

676

Brendan Sweeney: Great question.

677

Great answer.

678

We really struck a nerve there.

679

Pablo Molina: A bit

opinionated, don't know.

680

I would love to see the business plan

of the $7 billion Volkswagen thing.

681

Maybe there is a business

plan and I don't know, right?

682

I'm trying to be careful.

683

I sure know that if you did a

business plan of a billion dollars

684

to support advanced manufacturing

funding and scale up, it will be a

685

knockout, home run, like no doubt.

686

If you watch some of the people

I sometimes interview, like young

687

companies in series C or A, where,

like, I have American VCs that ask

688

me like, Hey, look at this company.

689

And I'm like, there's some

smart people here, wow, these

690

people are gonna make it happen.

691

It's just, are we going

to believe in them?

692

Are we gonna support them or

are we just gonna let it be?

693

But again, Denmark,

China, they are investing.

694

So it's not magic.

695

There's logic to it.

696

Brendan Sweeney: Okay, so last

question, and this is us starting

697

rumors about Hannover, because we

know at one of the NGen receptions,

698

there's gonna be a big guest musical

act, but they won't tell us who it is.

699

So we're starting some rumors that no

one's confirming and no one's denying.

700

And so far we've got Scorpions

because they're from Hannover.

701

Pablo Molina: Oh, wow.

702

I didn't know that, that's cool.

703

Brendan Sweeney: We got Justin

Bieber on the maybe list.

704

We got Chris Hadfield coming

and playing his acoustic guitar.

705

Who do you think, which Canadian

artist, and I know Scorpions is not

706

a Canadian artist, but they're from

Hannover, Germany, so, but who do

707

you think should be up on that stage?

708

Pablo Molina: I'm a huge

fan of Chris Hadfield.

709

I've met him in person many times.

710

He has the strongest, biggest forearms

and the strongest handshake I have

711

ever experienced, that was just

borderline painful, a couple of times.

712

Uh, and yeah, I was in a band in Toronto,

they played with him the year after.

713

I'm so sad.

714

I was gonna have a chance

to be on stage with him.

715

That would be awesome.

716

I will absolutely prefer that.

717

Brendan Sweeney: Yeah.

718

Pablo Molina: Maybe a Scorpions.

719

That sounds so cool.

720

They're, they're great live.

721

I've watched them live a lot of times.

722

They're, they're terrific.

723

They're, little advanced age,

but they have played their songs

724

together for 30 years, so I mean,

they literally complete each other's

725

solos is pretty cool to watch.

726

Brendan Sweeney: I think 50 years.

727

Pablo Molina: It's unbelievable

to watch them play.

728

It's just like part of the same

human it's awesome because

729

they do a lot of duality, right?

730

They do like the third and

the fifth and the solos, and

731

it's just like, how are you?

732

What?

733

Are you the same person?

734

Or no, you're two people.

735

How are you so together?

736

Brendan Sweeney: Klaus and

Rudolph, because the album Blackout

737

is as old as I am and I'm 45.

738

Pablo Molina: Okay, okay.

739

Yeah,

740

Brendan Sweeney: Yeah.

741

Pablo Molina: Probably 50 years then.

742

Brendan Sweeney: Pablo,

thanks so much for joining us.

743

Uh, this was great, and look

744

with Avidbots and with the CRC.

745

Pablo Molina: Awesome.

746

No, greatly appreciated

for the opportunity.

747

.

Michelle Samson: New episodes of Making it in Ontario are published weekly.

748

Follow us now on Apple Podcasts or

Spotify to make sure you don't miss any.

749

Making it in Ontario is an

initiative of the Trillium Network

750

for Advanced Manufacturing.

751

It is produced by Storied Places Media.