In this episode of 'Making it in Ontario,' co-hosts Michelle Samson and Brendan Sweeney share highlights from Trillium’s latest data bulletin focused on Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion (DEI) in Ontario's manufacturing sector. A key finding is the inverse relationship between pay and the proportion of women and visible minorities in various industries, with some notable exceptions. The episode delves into the impact of education and immigration patterns on workforce demographics and underscores the necessity for systemic change to include underrepresented groups in trades.
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About the Making it in Ontario Podcast
Making it in Ontario is your window into what's next in manufacturing. Ontario’s economy depends on manufacturing, but the latest research reveals concerning trends that could undermine the sector’s strength—if we don’t address them. Join us as we talk to CEOs and other leaders at the forefront of the sector about productivity, strategy, talent markets and career opportunities, and the role of manufacturing in a prosperous and sustainable future.
This podcast is an initiative of the Trillium Network for Advanced Manufacturing. It’s hosted by Michelle Samson and produced by Storied Places Media.
Welcome to Making it in Ontario, your window into what's next in
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:Ontario's manufacturing sector from the
data driven researchers at the Trillium
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:Network for Advanced Manufacturing.
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:I'm Michelle Samson.
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:Brendan Sweeney: And I'm Brendan Sweeney.
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:Michelle Samson: All right.
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:Brendan, some eagle eye listeners
might be wondering why this episode
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:is a lot shorter than our other ones.
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:Brendan Sweeney: Yeah, this season of
Making It in Ontario, and I think future
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:seasons, we're going to try something out.
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:We're going to have some mini episodes,
some shorter episodes, that really just
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:focus in on some hot off the presses
topics, uh, and that are really just
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:designed to give a bit of a primer
on some of our reports, some of our
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:data bulletins, some of our research.
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:Michelle Samson: Yeah and if there's
big news in the manufacturing
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:ecosystem, then that might be
the topic of an episode as well.
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:So this obviously is
one of those episodes.
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:What is hot off the press today?
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:Brendan Sweeney: So it's
a new data bulletin.
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:These data bulletins are
something that we, uh, had some
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:success with in 2022 and 2023.
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:And this particular data bulletin
follows a broader program of work at
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:the Trillium Network that began in late
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:The focus of this program of work
is on DEI, on Diversity, Equity,
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:and Inclusion in Manufacturing.
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:In the past, we've really had
a specific focus on gender.
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:We published our flagship, a landmark
report about gender diversity in
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:manufacturing in February 2021.
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:Uh, later we published an associated
data bulletin that kind of lines up
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:with some of the work that we did there.
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:That data bulletin plotted different
manufacturing industries in Ontario
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:by compensation, and by the proportion
of women that they employed as a
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:proportion of their overall workforce.
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:And we found a pretty explicit,
pretty direct relationship, inverse
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:relationship: the higher the
pay, the fewer women there were.
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:The lower the pay, the more women
there were, with one exception.
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:Pause for Michelle to
ask about the exception.
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:Michelle Samson: Pause
for dramatic effect.
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:What is our one exception?
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:Brendan Sweeney: Pharmaceutical
product manufacturing.
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:And it was just, I mean, it really you
can see in our data bulletin, you can see
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:on the graph just how much it stands out.
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:And from there we dug in a bit, we talked
to some companies, we looked at some
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:more data, and what we learned was that
the occupational mix was very different.
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:in pharmaceutical product manufacturing,
than it was in other industries
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:that we were more familiar with,
automotive, aerospace, machinery.
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:Big difference in pharmaceutical
product manufacturing is that there
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:are lots of scientists, chemists,
biochemists, very few tradespeople.
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:And what the reality of that is,
in Ontario, people with science
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:degrees are much more likely to
be women than people with a trade.
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:And that's just the
reality of the situation.
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:So on the one hand, you
know, industry is important.
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:The industry you work in is important.
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:And as a determinant of, you know,
what the, the gender mix will be.
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:But it's important because of
the occupational mix in there.
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:and so we actually have another data
bulletin, one of our first, that
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:illustrates this, the occupational
mix in different industries.
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:And it really does show that
within manufacturing, individual
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:industries are, are themselves quite
distinct in their occupational mix.
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:Some rely, like pharmaceutical, rely on
a lot of scientists to get the work done.
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:Others, like, metalworking
rely on a lot of tradespeople.
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:And then everything in between.
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:Michelle Samson: That is such
an important perspective or a
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:different way of looking at it.
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:So what about this new data bulletin?
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:What's going to be covered here?
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:Brendan Sweeney: This one focuses on
some, uh, new to the last census data.
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:And it's specifically focused
on race and ethnicity.
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:And so we organized the data similar to
the way we organized gender before, but
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:it focuses specifically on the proportion
of persons in any given manufacturing
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:industry in Ontario who identified
on the census as a visible minority.
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:And then we kind of plot and
examine those data by compensation
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:and by specific industries.
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:Michelle Samson: Very interesting.
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:So what does the data show?
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:Brendan Sweeney: Interestingly enough,
it shows almost the exact same curve,
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:not the exact same, but almost the
exact same curve as our analysis of
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:gender by industry by compensation.
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:Higher paying industries within
manufacturing tend to employ fewer persons
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:who identify as visible minorities.
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:Lower paying industries tend to,
employ a greater proportion of persons
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:who identify as visible minorities.
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:There were a couple more exceptions
or outliers in this case, though.
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:And that was really interesting.
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:Pharmaceuticals.
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:Pharmaceuticals on, on that diversity
angle, just check out really, really well.
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:Pharmaceuticals also checks out on
a lot of other really interesting
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:stuff: R&D, investment, pay.
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:but aerospace, which didn't check out
too well on the gender front, checked
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:out really well on the pay compensation.
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:But aerospace is a high paying
industry that employs an above
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:average proportion of persons who
identify as a visible minority.
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:And electronics did, quite well too.
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:I mean, what's left of our electronics
industry in Ontario, post Nortel,
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:post BlackBerry, um, a lot of
that's really high end stuff.
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:And those companies pay well, for the
most part, and employ a relatively high
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:proportion of persons who identified
on the census as visible minorities.
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:Michelle Samson: Interesting.
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:So was it education again
that made the difference?
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:Brendan Sweeney: Yeah, occupation
and education, definitely that
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:was one of the variables we ran.
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:We've got a table in the most recent
data bulletin that shows a bit of that.
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:And industries with a higher proportion
of university graduates also have a higher
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:proportion of visible minority employees.
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:Conversely, industries with a higher
proportion of trades have lower
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:proportions of visible minority employees.
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:Michelle Samson: In the case of
visible minorities, the historical
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:patterns of immigration make
a difference here too, right?
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:Brendan Sweeney: Big time, and if we
look at the recent historical pattern
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:of immigration, or today's pattern
of immigration, relative newcomers to
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:Canada, people who are joining us, you
know, today, yesterday, a year ago,
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:tend to be very well educated, tend to
have university education, or are coming
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:here to get a university education
and then staying here via a permanent
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:resident or path to citizenship program.
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:And conversely, you know,
historically, where have people
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:who with a trade come from?
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:From Britain and Central Europe.
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:So that really does kind of
flavor the demographics of the
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:workforce and, by education, by
occupation, and continues to do so.
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:Michelle Samson: Really
fascinating findings.
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:So let's bring it together.
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:What does it all mean?
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:Brendan Sweeney: Okay, I think there's
three things that are really important
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:to know here that, you know, one
is demographics change in Ontario.
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:As more people from all over the
world, more university educated
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:people come here, we might need to
think about focusing on manufacturing
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:investments that fit the workforce
rather than trying to fit the workforce
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:into our manufacturing investments.
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:So the two industries that really
jump out there: Pharmaceutical
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:Product Manufacturing and Aerospace.
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:Electronics are great.
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:I don't know how much electronics
investment there is on the horizon, but
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:we do know that pharmaceutical products
or life sciences generally, uh, and
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:aerospace are really good fits for our,
uh, existing and evolving workforce.
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:Two, and this is one of the more
provocative things that I'm on about
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:these days, but something really
needs to give with the trades.
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:you know, we understand there are a lot
of opportunities in the trades and that
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:they pay well, but I think we really need
to ask ourselves, well, why are women,
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:why are other under represented groups
just largely absent and continue to be
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:largely absent from the trades, at least
in manufacturing, and I think this is
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:a broader systemic problem, and things
won't change until the system changes.
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:Michelle Samson: Absolutely.
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:And culture is such an
important part of that, right?
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:It's shifting, not just offering
the opportunity, but shifting
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:the culture to make people feel
welcome in these environments.
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:Brendan Sweeney: Yeah and shifting
broader institutions like apprenticeship
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:systems that tend to exclude.
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:women and a lot of underrepresented
groups or, really don't
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:afford opportunities there.
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:And then, um, third, all the data, you
know, we let data point us to conclusions,
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:and my conclusion, this has been pretty
consistent over the past few years,
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:you know, that pharmaceutical product
manufacturing, especially biopharma, is
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:one of the most productive segments of
manufacturing and scores well on just
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:about every indicator that we want,
whether it's R&D spending, whether it's
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:earnings, the pharmaceutical product
manufacturing industry pays really, really
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:well, and as this shows on every element
of diversity that we could come up with.
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:aerospace is doing pretty well too.
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:but These industries are both good
evidence that if you pay attention to
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:diversity, if you embrace diversity,
it's a good business practice.
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:Michelle Samson: Love that.
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:Ending on a high note.
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:We've covered the highlights of this
report, but I'm sure there's more details.
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:Where can they find the data bulletin?
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:Brendan Sweeney: Yeah, in the kind of
research and publication section of
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:our website, uh, we will also probably
have kind of some blog post links to it
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:throughout the website and we will be
telling people about it via LinkedIn.
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:Michelle Samson: And as always,
you can find it in the show notes.
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:We'll definitely put a link in there.
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:Brendan Sweeney: You bet.
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:Happy friday.
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:Michelle Samson: Making it in Ontario
is an initiative of the Trillium
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:Network for Advanced Manufacturing.
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:It is produced by Storied Places Media.