Gena Morgan, Vice President of Standards at GS1 US, discussed the evolution and future of barcodes, emphasizing the transition from 1D to 2D barcodes by 2027. She highlighted the benefits of 2D barcodes, which can carry more data, including serial numbers and expiration dates, enhancing inventory management and consumer engagement. Morgan explained that GS1 Digital Link standard transforms barcodes into web-resolvable identifiers, linking products to detailed information. She noted ongoing lab tests and small-scale pilots, with real-world implementations expected by next year. Morgan encouraged retailers and brands to start planning now to leverage these advancements

Mike presented by all access retail.com Welcome to

Conversations on retail. Join Mike Green as he sits down with

Gena Morgan, Vice President of standards for GS1 US to discuss

the role of GS1 in on shelf availability. Let's get started.

Good morning, good afternoon, good evening,

everybody. My name is Mike Graen, back with another version

of on shelf availability. Can't talk. It's Friday, sponsored by

conversations at retail and the University of Arkansas supply

chain. We've got a return guest. Gina. Gina Gina, thank you so

much. Gina Morgan, with GS1 is back, Gina, I understand we are

the only thing standing between you and a vacation, so we're

gonna be very, very, very efficient with our time here and

just hit the highlights so you can get packing and get out of

town. But for those, those of you who don't know Gina, Gina,

what you go ahead, unmute and introduce yourself to the

audience. You're unmuted. Okay.

Hi. I am Gina Morgan. I am the Vice President

of standards at GS1 US. I've been in that role for about four

years, but I have maybe three. Who knows what is time Mike, but

I have been around GS1 in this, in the development of industry

standards, for 25 years now. And prior to that, I was a retail

kid. I grew up in retail. My parents were in retail. I

started my career as a merchant in a department store,

retailing. And so it's just pretty much been my life. And

back when the computer became a thing, just kidding, I'm not

that old. I transitioned into systems and efficiency and

supply chain. So it's been just a tremendous pleasure working in

the field, trying to solve the problems of retail.

Well, 25 years, that means you were involved,

probably in the very early days, where we are literally trying to

create standards of how we were going to electronically

transplant purchase orders and invoices and and all that stuff.

I was on, indeed, yeah, I was on. I was on a call yesterday

with Matthew, who's on your team, and and I started making

references to when I first started working with P and G and

Walmart. We did all of the business of those two great big

companies via fax machine, and that was one of my first jobs,

just to move that to EDI. And the standards were being

developed and in a consistent way. And it was a lifesaver,

because otherwise, if I'm Walmart, I've got 1000 different

suppliers, I got to communicate all with them differently. That

doesn't make any sense. So, huge, huge help. Huge, huge

help. So standards and this focus, the focus of this channel

has always been just kind of on shelf availability, getting

product on the shelf for the customers to buy. So obviously,

things like EDI creates standards, but we've also got

standards for other things, such as, how do you actually, how do

you actually produce a barcode, a label? And we're going to get

into this later, but we're celebrating the 50th year of the

barcode. We're also introducing that, just like everything else

we're looking at continuing to grow that. So tell us a little

bit about how standards really impact and really help us get

product on the shelf for customers.

I will, if you don't mind, I'll take a step

back into my beginnings as an apparel merchant, just for a bit

truly was one when I was an assistant buyer, they were just

starting to roll out that UPC code, and so that was probably

mid 90s, so a little less than 50 years ago, but and prior to

that, you just kept stock of what was in the store by an SKU,

and so you really couldn't track what inventory did you have,

what did you need, what was you couldn't even track sales by you

could track it by SKU, but you couldn't do color, size, all the

things that you Want to track in order to be able to have

maintain your inventory of accuracy and things like that.

So I have been there from the beginning. It's called floor

ready merchandise initiative, and I was there at the

beginning, and here I find myself now driving those

industry initiatives forward. So that barcode that you spoke

about that began 50 years ago. To make checkout more efficiency

has evolved to manage inventory, to do things like that, and it's

evolved into things like serialized identification, which

gets you even more granular on about what's in your store.

Consumers are now demanding a unified always on, always open

shopping experience, and retailers, marketplaces, brand

owners, manufacturers, all the folks involved, Mike are seeking

ways to keep pace and grow and standards really are important

for interoperability, which leads interoperability is

essential to. Solution choice. So what I choose to operate my

business may be different from what you choose to operate your

business, and we can compete on what those solutions look like,

but standards bring it all together, because they can now

speak to one another. So it really you could think about

standards in a way that don't deal with retail, and that's how

we talk on the phone with one another, that's how we surf the

internet. All of those things are are important in keeping

things connected, and standards are at the heart of

it, yeah, well, we think a little bit about just,

just the invention of the UPC. And it was during my early days

that I kind of said that too, if I remember correctly, the

primary driving factor for coming up with that is they

didn't want to have to price sticker every single unit,

right? That was the driving factor. It was really more of an

efficiency play. But just the talk with us a little bit of

what are the other things, I mean, once we go, okay, well,

yeah, now we don't have to, we can just scan it. We don't have

to literally key it in every time, but some of the unlock of

how we leverage that UPC, you mentioned being able to track

sales. Ever thought about that? The other things that people

once it was in place all sudden, said, Well, if that's in place,

we can use it for the following things. Do you have some other

examples of what that would look like?

Yeah inventory management is the big one,

right? And you hit on it prior to that, like you knew what you

sold by going and counting it on the shelf at the end of every

night. So there's total efficiency, sales, volume, the

success of a promotion, anything that allowed that, what the bar

code unlocked was, I think it's just masterful, actually, when

you think, when you think about it and how it evolved commerce,

but that automatic identification that you can get

from a single scan, depending on how, what, what data stream

you're feeding that can has done a lot of things. It's made the

supply chain more efficient. We We moved from just putting the

UPC code on a product to using similar, different, different

identification, but similar bar code symbology to track

shipments and containers and ships and so that really just

unlocks the visibility of the entire supply chain. Now, have

we perfected it? I mean, I think the pandemic would would point

to, maybe not, because now, but, but that's really what, what the

next evolution of identification and automatic data capture can

unlock is being able to see and divert and move and respond in a

much more dynamic way than we've been able to

Yeah that's a that's a perfect segue. Because what

we're talking about with this sunrise 2027. Is something that,

frankly, we've been doing at retail for a while. We just

didn't call it that. It was called radio frequency

identification. The RF part is how we actually capture the

information. The ID part was always the identification. I

have a prop here, so I've got this bottle of Windex. It's got

a up sequence, and today we can go this UPC. I've got 10 of

them, right, but I can't distinguish this one from the

other nine. They all look the same. You guys are really kind

of leading the way from an industry standpoint, which is

much better than the industry needing it, and you guys not

having it. You guys are doing a really good job of saying we

need to uniquely be able to identify and track these

individual units. Okay, why would we need to do that?

Because, hey, UPC qualities worked forever. Why do I need to

be able to track whether it's this or or a television or

whatever? Why do I need to be able to track an individual unit

level,

a few reasons. And you can, you can serialize. You

can, there's different forms of serialization, right? You can go

to a batch or a lot number, which is still not a very

specific instance, like you talked about with the with the

nine distinct instances of Windex. But you so you can go to

a batch lot. And what that gives you is I don't need to pull

every bag of potentially contaminated produce. I don't

want to name any any particular commodity, but at batch and lot,

when you know that, you can then zero in on on maybe there's an

incident or a problem with something. And so that allowed

that granular identification helps you pinpoint and

understand things like that. Serialization gets you to a

finer level of granularity. And so now I can track a specific

instance of a television set. I can count them without radio

frequency identification, that's a requirement so the reader, you

can be hands free, and I can count I can wave a magic wand,

and I know that I've got 10 things there unique things

without serialization. I don't know if I've read 10 distinct

things or I read one thing 10 times. So that's where

serialization and that fine level granularity unlocks a lot

of different technology, but also a lot of different use

cases, I would say. Say that speaking to where the consumer

is headed, the consumer wants more information about the thing

they're holding in their hand. And to do that, that granular

level identification is also extremely valuable, because

something might one thing, one might be manufactured in

different places, so it looks the same on the shelf, right?

But it actually might have come from a different part of the

world, because they're manufactured in different parts

of the world. But maybe that matters to me, and so having

that granular identification will allow me to link to the

specific information about that instance of the thing. Yeah,

that makes sense. Mike

Great example. Great example. I gave you one more

that I've used with several retailers, because,

specifically, when people are looking to get their on hand

accurate so they can take care of their online customers,

that's usually a big thing. So we got to get their inventory

right. We got to get their inventory right. Well, I've

given this example before, but let's just say I have three of

these television set, a specific television set. If I have three

in the building, I may or may not have three to sell. Correct?

What do you mean by that? Mike, well, one of them could be on

the back wall showing customers how they work. That's in the

building, but it's not available for sale. One of them could

have, hey, we've got to open it up, and we're playing a video on

an end at end cap somewhere, again, that's in the building,

but not available for sale. And one of them could have been a

customer just returned because there's a problem with it. So

they took it from the returns desk. They've got it back in

claims to evaluate whether it's sellable or not? Well, the

reality is, my on hand is perfectly accurate, 100% but I

have none available to sell today. I can't distinguish those

with this serialized information. I can literally say

number one, number two, number three, not for sale. Brilliant

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so what's GS1 done about this? So we know that I

the serial identification has always been in the RFID

platform. But there's not everything makes sense from an

RFID standpoint. So you guys have come up with this new set

of guidelines, and I'll have a one pager on the screen that

will show it, and we're gonna later, we'll show, after we get

done talking, I'll show the GS1 John Phillips video is what I

call it. Was okay about that, but talk to us about the whole

idea of you guys have called it sunrise 2027 not sunset. We're

not sunsetting anything. We're sun rising, a new capability.

Tell us a little bit about that. What drove that? Where are you

in the deployment stage? What kind of adoption Are you seeing?

Just anything you want to share with us about that, that topic?

Yeah, sure. So I'll go a couple, a couple of ways

here, but just going back to the OG barcode, the UPC, it has done

a tremendous job of doing what it was supposed to do, and it

did actually more than that, as we've talked about. But it's

original, beep at the checkout give you a price, and now we

live in this age of a connected consumer. The explosion of

digital access to content is key element to remain competitive.

Just got to do more, and that product's got to tell a story,

both to the consumer and into the supply chain, frankly. So

that barcode that we have now that we know and love, it can

only carry an identifier. You need finer granular

identification, like we talked about. It could be the batch

lot. It could be a serial number. And I just want to be

clear, you might not be serializing fast moving consumer

goods, where they go super fast down the line. That might not

make sense now, as as technology evolves, I think one day, yeah,

but still, you have that capability to do that with what

we call a 2d bar code, whether that's a QR code or a data

matrix code there, and which is just a slight difference. We

won't get too nerdy here, Mike, but a 2d bar code can carry more

information. It can carry the serialization. It could carry an

expiration date. It can carry a lot of things that can now be

automatically captured through a scan. 1d bar code can't do that.

The UPC code can't do that. You have to link to a whole bunch of

information about it, and you still can't get to things like

the expiration date and that sort of thing. So first and

foremost, we need to know more about the product, not we need

that product to tell us its story. And so you need a data

carrier that supports that has the capacity to carry more data

in it. But more importantly, you need that to be web resolvable.

And so our standard GS1 digital link is the standard that takes

a number, the UPC code, plus some additional numbers, the

batch lot, the serial serial number, the expiration date, and

transform that into a web address. So now I can link to

the story of that product and that that resolvable identity

can link you to things like certifications and claims. It

could link you to country of origin. It could link you to a

number of coupons. It can promos, whatever you want to do.

So you could bring in the consumer to give them an

experience, but you can also satisfy their desire for more

information about that product, all at the same time, being able

to go beep at the checkout, just like the UPC code does today. So

there's this convergence of of of things, where it's granular

identification, web resolvability, links to other

data about that product that that work together through a

series of standards that tell that, that allow you to tell

that product story.

I've said this before. If there's one good

thing that came out of COVID, everybody can use their phone to

order food at a restaurant. Everybody knows how to do that.

Nobody knew how to do that before. So what you're basically

doing is you're putting that kind of capability that happens

to be a QR code, but that same kind of capability for every

item, I can go look and find out a lot more than just what the

item is, right, where it was manufactured, any potential

health hazards, or does it? Does it contain peanut butter, or

whatever? Those things happen to be rom a consumer facing

standpoint, I've become a lot more educated about the products

I'm buying.

Yeah, that's for sure. And the thing is, like,

there are QR codes on products today, you can go pick up any.

Probably have something on my shelf right now. I do right

here. Here's a QR code on a box or something, and that will take

me to, likely, the product page that the brand wants to send me

to. It's a you dug into what that is. It's just a web address

you when you use a standard, and it's a proprietary web address

that that brand put in there when you use a standard that

also incorporates the UPC code, or the UPC code and the lot,

then that allows you to tell the story about that lot, or that

batch, or whatever, of that box of crackers, and then, because

the identifier is in there, you could do all the supply chain

processes that our UPC code did. And that's really the importance

of moving to a 2d bar code. It allows you to put more data in

the code, and so the that then allows you to tell a deeper,

richer story, and it also can then allow you to create, to

manage the supply chain processes that has have always

been done and that we talked about earlier.

How about food? I'm just going to play this all the

way out. I am standing in front of a whole bunch of bananas. Can

I pick up a set up bananas and scan that code and tell me what

the life history, when was it picked, when it was a wrap?

Because bringing home bananas or strawberries that get moldy the

next day, etc, never is a really good experience, right? So is

that kind of information available, or potentially

it absolutely is, and I will admit and be

perfectly transparent, that there are some produce companies

who have a QR code on it today that tell you where it came

from, what farm was it produced. The difference here and where

we're moving to is you can combine that it once you use the

GS1 digital link standard, you bring all of that together. So I

now don't need a UPC plus that QR code. It all comes together

in one code. So I could tell, that's right, I could tell where

that where those strawberries were farmed, and I can check it

out and at the cash register all in a single code.

Wow. So, so let's talk about the actual

transaction part of that. I go to the register today. I'm

scanning basically my 1d bar code, right? And it just looks

up the price, and away we go. When I use this 2d bar code or

this at the register, I'm assuming the same thing happens.

I'm going to go look up the price and charge the customer.

What are the other things that I could possibly do with that?

Yeah, long term, that is exactly what is, how

it's going to work. It'll go beep. And It'll give you a price

from that 2d code. If there's additional data in the code,

let's say it is a lot number, or it's an expiration date. What

you can do as a retailer with you know, upgrades to your POS

system is say, Nope, I'm not going to let you walk out of

here, because that's actually a recall product, or that's that's

close to expiration. You know, there might be some dynamic

pricing or something like that that you you might do or don't

let your customer walk out with an expired product, because

there's nothing worse than getting home and seeing that my

milks expired. Hasn't happened often, but does, and that's not

delighting the customer.

Wow, that's a that's huge. That's huge. While that

may sound like an inconvenience at the register, that's really,

I think most people would go, I'm sorry, this one has expired.

We're going to go run and get you another one and take care of

you. I think the first time that happens, you probably go, What

are you talking about? The second time, it's like, well,

thank you. I don't want something that's going to expire

right away. That's cool. That's cool.

Also just add that, you know, there's some food

regulations that are on the horizon that do require you

track certain things, certain high risk foods that might have

been transformed in your commissary, at the retail space,

that if you that this 2d bar code will allow you to put that

block code in the bar code, and so it will allow you to comply

with some of those regulations in an efficient way.

Well, I've got two more examples that I think would

be pretty powerful for you guys to help. I'm helping you market

a little bit. Number one, if I'm literally scanning a unique

serial number, I may not have to go have my associates mark down

stuff, because I just realized everything I was supposed to

mark down just sold today. I don't know. Right in the future,

I should be able to know. Here's the other one. And I just got

off a call yesterday with Joe Cole, who's who's the vice

president of asset protection at Macy's, and he's leading the way

with RFID and the whole idea of leveraging RFID with asset

protection. But still, the industry is comparing what did I

sell at a UPC or G 1014, level to what all left the store at a

serial number level. So let's give you an example, five pairs

of blue jeans left the store. I'm sorry, were sold at the

register, but 10 left the store. Yeah, so obviously, five got

stolen. But which five got stolen versus which? I can't

tell you, somebody comes in and returns one. Was that one that

was bought, or was that the one that was stolen? I don't know.

So to me, this next level of asset protection is actually

comparing the serialized G 10 at the register to the serialized G

10 at the exit. Well, guess what? RFID can't really do that

very well, or it can, but it potentially would get overreads

of other stuff in the area, because you didn't get

everything if you start to leverage that and have the same

RFID serialization in the tag that's on the label. You can

actually pull those things together.

Yeah, I'll give you another one. Is in addition to

theft, that another form of that is returns fraud, and we've all

been, you know, where the they scan your product and then they

scan a sticker, and they put the sticker on your on your pair of

shoes. When you get to marrying that serialized RFID tag, that

serialized G 10, you put that into a 2d code. Now I can

capture that at point of sale. And like you're right, there are

RFID point of sale systems, but that's a CapEx expense as well.

And so this is another way to capture that a point of sale, so

I know I can prevent returns from which is huge in the

apparel and general merchandise.

Well, here's the other the other great news about

this, but it's also a complexity. Everybody's looking

for that single solution. I just want a scanner based solution. I

just want a computer vision based solution. I just want an

RFID solution. The reality is, at least I've been around long

enough to know I don't think there is a silver bullet. I

think it's going to be, how do we get those to work together?

Because if I can scan it at a register with a scanner,

obviously2d barcode, and that 2d bar code actually matches the

serialized number that's embedded in the tag. I can link

them together, but they would be different data captures, but

it's still pointing to the same thing, right? Absolutely,

and I wholeheartedly agree. I always

say like, it's not an either or, it's a bunch of ands and listen,

machine vision and where technology is evolving is super

amazing, right? I always go back to, how do you tell the organic

banana from the regular banana? They're both bananas, and the

machine doesn't know, I mean, and so that's my question every

time I go. So it is a bunch of ands put together to give you a

solution that will solve all of the problems. And it's up to us,

and that's where standards become super important, right?

It still should rely on that unique identification in

whatever data capture mechanism, whatever sensor you've got going

on to whatever level of granularity you want to identify

the thing to solve your business problem. And the business

problems we're trying to solve become more and more and more

complex, which is what requires granular identification and put

into the appropriate data carriers you can begin to unlock

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so you guys call this sunrise 2027, by the way

2027, that's several years away. I don't have to worry about

that. The reality we retailers and suppliers need to be

thinking about that now and implementing things now. Where

is the industry really, really on the maybe not the full

adoption of this. But do you get? Are you getting a lot of

queries there? Don't need specific examples, but queries

from retailers and suppliers, how to so they so they're

working on it now to be ready for 2027

Yeah, so we GS1 have spent several years working

in the lab, right, and doing lab testing on reading 2d barcodes

at point of sale, with biopic scanners, with handheld

scanners, to ensure that we don't break anything by the move

to this 2d bar code, that things don't ring up twice if there's

Two barcodes on there, which there will be for a period of

time, that things can still go quickly. Because the whole point

of the barcode was to speed up checkout. So we don't want to

introduce this whiz bang barcode and then everything slows down.

We certainly don't want to do that. So we spent a lot of time

in the lab testing that and and and got it to the right point,

all of the scanner manufacturers were part of that to get it to

acceptable levels. And now we have retail partners that are

testing now. They are testing in small scale pilots at the

moment, but they are doing that with real world product. You

will find product on the shelf at a grocery store that has a QR

code with a GS1 digital lake and the UPC code and other data in

it today there, there are products out there that the

brands have started marking with that. I expect that next year

will bring us some real life implementations of 2d bar codes

in store for sure

awesome, awesome. So I would imagine that it's not

just the point of sale systems, because a lot of retailers, we

have these personal shoppers, bopis, whatever you want to call

it, but people shopping on behalf of shoppers. Yeah, so I'm

assuming anything I'm using to actually deliver a customer

order, even if it's a handheld device has to be able to read

that, that QR code, or that GS1 data link as well, right?

Yes, yes, for sure. What's interesting about that

and that particular you know, when you've got somebody else

buying your, your groceries for you, or whatever it might be,

there could be minor variations in a product, right? And but it

still has the same G 10. It's a minor variation. Maybe it's a

Messi bag of chips, meaning Lionel Messi versus Ronaldo. I

guess I'm not a soccer person, football. I mean American

football. I'm getting it all wrong here, Mike, but that might

be what you want to purchase. Maybe you're having a birthday

party for your kid, and he's a Messi fan. And so there's

another piece of data that we call label variant, or consumer

product variant, that could distinguish this bag of Messi

chips from Ronaldo bag of chips. And so that can also be put in

this 2d code, and that would serve that guy that's picking

it. I don't want this just any bag of chips. I want that bag of

chips. While it still has the same UPC code, it has this

slight variation on it, and so, yeah, it allows you to fulfill

orders to exactly what I put in my basket online.

Gina, this has been incredibly helpful. Thank you so

much for this. Where do Where do people go if they want more

information, if this has piqued their interest and they're

interested in finding out more, where can they go within? Gs1,

to find out more information about this? Sure.

So we our web page. GS1us.org, sunrise, 2027, give

it a search there, and you will find some stuff, but also

sunrise2027@GS1US.org. Is an email that you could send us a

note and tell us your more, your you would are interested in

learning more, and I've got a whole team ready to talk to you.

Yes, perfect. All right, my favorite question for

the end of these What did I not ask you that I should have,

what's on your mind of something that we should have talked about

but I didn't ask you about, or if just have any other closing

comments that you want

to make, I would just say, I think you hit on it

at the beginning, like, and actually, though, when you think

about it, 2027, is like tomorrow, at least when you get

to be my age, it goes pretty fast, but, but, but you should

Start now, and we do anticipate a transition. There will be a

time where there will be the 1d bar code and the 2d bar code on

pack. And if a brand never wants to realize the benefits of what

a 2d bar code can bring, that's cool. They could keep the 1d bar

code. You can keep the UPC. We're not mandating that at this

point. All standards are voluntary anyway. But you you

should get started now, though, and make your plan. And I would

suggest identifying the stakeholders within your

organization, if you're a brand, that might be your brand

marketing team. And oddly, we don't talk enough to the brand

marketers. When you think about what we're doing here, it is

going to free up a lot of space on pack, and that should be a

brand marketers dream. It is also going to allow you to serve

up a consumer experience in a way that you can't do today.

Also a brand marketers team, but then there's operations and

supply chain, all those other folks. So so really starting to

explore what this means for you and what it can unlock, and

putting your teams together for the brand. That's what I

recommend. Now, from a retailer perspective, it's really getting

in touch with your scanner manufacturers and your POS host

systems to start to prepare the ability to read. In most cases,

I would say, Mike, 90% in our research, about 90% of retailers

have optical scanners today. That's the number one

requirement, by the way, you have to have an optical scanner

in order to read and process the barcode. And then there's some

firmware upgrades and a little and some some software changes

that you need to make so that you can read it. It won't beep

twice. You can read it fast, and all those sorts of things. So

it's really important to get started now and start to make

your plan. And we will, we will help prepare you for 2027 and

the sunrise, like you said, it's not a sunset. It is a sunrise.

And it could be a gradual sunset, like John Phillips

always says, it's not like this being a light at you. It is.

It's a slow sunrise. And so we want to make sure that industry

is prepared for that.

Well, Gina, I can't thank you enough for spending

some time on I said, and I gave you guys credit, and it would

that credit didn't always exist when I was working in the very

early 80s around EDI implementations, it felt like

GS1 was just lagging. We'd have to go, Hey, we're ready to do

EDI for advanced shipment notifications. Oh, we got to

trade a standard for that. How about electronic funds transfer?

So you were always just, you were there, but you were always

lagging a little bit. Now, you guys are way out front. You've

done the research. You know where the industry is going.

There's nothing better than having standards. And I would

argue that you don't have to adopt standards, but that's like

saying you really need to drive on the right side of the road of

the United States, not the left side. You can drive on the left

side. Doesn't work very well, but you're thinking out the way

that things happen. And they all have a standard way. And I think

you guys just the way you're thinking about, you know, this

whole moving to serialized data with a scanner based like GS1

digitally, you're way ahead of the industry. You're you're

going to create capability that people will start to take

advantage of. It'll seem like it's taking a long time, and it

is, but it's already there. It's not like we've got to be, you

know, screaming at GS1 We need standards for this. So thank you

guys for doing that, and I know you also have a huge marketing

job ahead of you. You got a lot of people to tell the story.

Hopefully this podcast is a very small step towards that, but I

want to thank you for that you enjoy your vacation. Deserve it.

And anything else that you want to say before we close out?

Yeah, I do want to I appreciate the the kind words

about about GS1 and how we have evolved over the years. I've

been there for a lot of the decades that we've done that,

but we we're created by industry and governed by industry, so a

lot of credit goes to industry being willing to charge us with

looking ahead and around the corner and trusting us to do

that. So thanks to all of our industry partners as well, but

we are excited about that future.

Awesome. Well, thank you for your time. Have a great

vacation. And hey, I helped hear 2025 we're going to hear success

stories about 2027 How about that?

Yes, sir, yes, sir. And you'll have me back, because

I love being on a podcast with you. Mr. Green.

Awesome. I enjoyed as well. Gina, have a great rest

of your day. Bye, bye, everybody, bye, All right, bye,

bye.