If you feel like adult life is just full of responsibilities, to-dos, meetings, and seriousness, you’re not alone. With busy schedules and the weight of the world, it’s easy to feel disconnected. In this episode of But For Real, Valerie and Emerson explore the relationship we have as play as adults, why it’s actually integral to your well-being and how to start inviting in joy again 🫶

This episode covers:

• 03:17 - Tea & Crumpets: Freaky Friday + Freakier Friday and Emerson’s screen free sauna/steam Sunday routine
• 07:08 - Step Into My Office: How can I get over the fear of looking stupid so that I can find fun?
• 12:57 - The DSM: The Serious Person’s Guide To Getting Silly Again
• 36:33 - Now That's What I Call...OKAAAY!
• 38:11 - Em Pick: "Girl of Your Dreams" by Eli
• 39:19 - Val Pick: "H.Y.C.Y.BH?" by Tom Cardy
• 39:37 - Wait...What? - WTF does 67 mean?
• 42:52 - Fire Dumpster Phoenix: Tiffany Haddish’s She Ready Foundation + Henry the 1200 lb polar bear eating a giant pumpkin

Resources + Stuff  Mentioned in This Episode:

• Why We Play 
• Jack Panksepp
• Eli, pop’s new stage girl, is living her teenage dream | The FADER
• "Girl of Your Dreams" by Eli
• "H.Y.C.Y.BH?" by Tom Cardy
• Tiffany Haddish’s She Ready Foundation
• Henry the 1200 lb polar bear

Connect with Us:

• Send a story or ask for advice: butforrealpod@gmail.com 
• But For Real on IG: @butforrealpod
• Now That's What I Call... OKAAAAY Playlist
• The Gaia Center on IG: @thegaiacenter
• Val on IG: @valkaymartin
• The Gaia Center website: www.gaiacenter.co 

DISCLAIMER: But For Real Podcast is not a substitute for individualized mental health treatment or healthcare. This podcast is solely for entertainment and educational purposes. If you are in crisis, please utilize crisis support services, such as the Crisis Text Line (Text START to 741741 in the US) or the 988 Suicide & Crisis Lifeline: (Call 988 in the US), or visit www.findahelpline.com for international resources.

Welcome to, but for Real, a variety show podcast co-hosted by two therapists who

also happened to be loud mouth feminist.

I'm Valerie, your resident elder, millennial child free cat lady.

And I'm Emerson, your resident, chronically online Gen Z brat.

And on the show we'll serve up a new episode every other week that will take

you on a wild ride through the cultural zeitgeist, mental health and beyond.

You'll definitely laugh and TBH sometimes maybe cry a little because

this is a silly and serious show.

Buckle up my friends, and let's get into today's episode.

Emerson, I'm so happy to see you today.

I'm really

scared.

I'm like, what does fake serious intro mean?

Um, okay.

I was

really trying, I was really trying to be serious, but I was like,

I don't with the most unserious person you've maybe ever

met, and I don't think I know

how.

No,

I don't.

When it counts, sure.

When the moment calls for it.

I guess I don't know if I've, if I'm serious ever anymore.

Oh my God.

Mm. How's spooky?

Oky?

Get the, get the adrenaline going everyone.

Yeah.

You know, that keeps me on my toes.

Um, our.

I guess real air quotes intro is what is your relationship with play

and or getting silly as an adult?

Yeah, I mean you have to frame it around

adulthood, and I love this question because for me

it's like a two part answer.

Mm-hmm.

Like, because being silly, I am all about, yep.

But I'm really excited to talk about play today.

Me, because I'm like.

I think silliness is its own type of play.

Yeah.

Interpersonally.

Um, just with yourself even.

But yeah, I feel like I'm s silly a lot and I don't play a lot.

Mm. How about you?

That's actually a really, I feel like I really resonate with that.

Mm. I think the, the silliness, the jokes, the humor, I can access that.

And I feel like that's, that has made me confused a little, or at least like.

Caused some dissonance within my, like identity where I'm like, I'm an

unserious person or like a silly person.

And so I feel like that has made me think that I'm playful.

Yeah.

Or that I am, uh, am engaging in play a similar kind of beat where

like, I really haven't, I've just been kind of like over here in the

like comedy realm of it all Uhhuh.

So like thinking that they are, you know, mutually exclusive type beat.

So, um.

I feel like I am.

Me too.

I'm, I am excited to talk about this today.

'cause even writing this out, it was making me kind of turn on what

does this mean for me right now?

Mm-hmm.

As a 26-year-old.

Mm-hmm.

Um, which means nothing and everything all at once, so.

Um, yeah.

Kind of like to be determined.

Okay.

We'll explore more.

We shall.

Okay.

Yes.

Now it's time for our first segment, tea and Crumpets, where we tell you what

we can't stop talking about this week.

Kind of along the lines of play.

Mm-hmm.

I feel like one of the ways that I'm exploring that is through.

Um, I'm trying to become someone who like watches a lot of movies.

Yeah.

And that's not always play.

Like there's a lot of movies that I'm like, is this really how I

wanna spend my Monday evening getting depressed about this topic?

Right.

I'm sad, so it's not all play, but I am, I'm trying to look at it as an opportunity

to like lean into that side too, right?

Yeah.

Like I don't have to.

Watch all highbrow serious cinema, right?

Yes.

And so, uh, recently on a trip on the airplane, I watched Freaky Friday, which

I had never seen the original, like, not, not original, original, but the first.

Um, Lindsay Lo and Jamie e Lee Curtis won from like 2003.

Oh my God.

Had never seen it.

What?

I know, right?

Which is so weird because I was like in high school, but it was,

that was the era where if you didn't see it in the theater, that was it.

What were you going to Blockbuster to rent the DVD.

True.

So, um.

Yeah, so I watched that and then on the plane ride back,

I watched Freakier Friday.

Oh.

And I tell you what, I was laughing out loud period there.

I was tearing up like, they're so good.

And I'm just, so, I'm just enjoying the opportunity to remember that

connecting with film includes connecting with playful, silly stories.

Mm. That's actually so inspiring.

I feel like I'm really, I'm really bad with media.

Like I. To sit through a movie or to like, I, especially with movies, I feel

like I'm really behind and also judgy.

I'm like, if this, it doesn't hook me right away.

I'm like, okay, bitch.

Like we get it.

You have dopamine problems like this, like good stuff a chance.

Oh, um, I really love that yours is kind of centered in play.

Yeah.

I was kind of reading mine and I was like, mine is not, but that's also not true.

Yeah.

Um, so mine is screen free, which ish, we all know I can't all the way.

Um, screen frees.

Sun, like Sunday sauna, steam, like I'm trying to like build this

like more fruitful Sunday routine.

Okay.

Where like I look at my meal prep for the week.

Um, I go to a restorative yoga class every Sunday at the Y and so

that's kind of where it started.

And then I'm trying to just like build this like lovely routine around it because

I really struggled with this time of year.

I'm bad with the winter blues.

So, um, I've been trying to like, I, and I'm also like paying to go to the y Yeah.

And like, we have these amenities and I feel like I

was, I'm like never using that.

Oh.

So I was like, okay, let me like put on a swim and go get like a padlock for my

locker Uhhuh and it's pink and that's fun.

You know?

So I feel like my play is kind of, um, you know, like I have like my little.

Um, you know, toiletry bag with like my mini products that I brush

out and then I go to yoga after.

So it's just these like few hours where I'm not on my phone.

Like it's straight up just like locked up where it's, I leave it in the car

and I just go and like unwind and unplug across these like two to three

hours, come home and meal prep and still kind of like leave my phone and

just have like some time away from it.

And I feel like it has.

Been very, very important for my kind of like existential Yeah.

Scaries and the dread where I feel like I just kinda was spending all

of my weekend in bed and then being like, wait, why am I terrified?

Yeah.

To go to work next week and do life stuff.

And I was like, Hey, maybe you need to move.

Yeah.

So, um, that's been really nice.

It's been exciting and I feel like it's a good thing to set myself

up for winter, so I'm happy.

I love it.

Yeah, me too.

Inspirational.

Now it's time for Step Into My Office where you get advice from your

favorite professionally qualified, personally peculiar therapist.

Dear Em and Val, this year has been the most successful year of my career

so far, and I feel really grateful and proud of how far I've come.

However, it feels like something big is missing.

I've spent so much time focusing on getting myself to where I want

to be at work that I feel like I've lost the ability to answer.

What do you do for fun in an embodied honest way?

Most of my days are steeped in logistics and optimization, which truly makes

my life easier and function better, but everything feels so serious.

I tried to sign up for an adult dance class, but I felt too embarrassed to

go and canceled at the last minute.

I'm so frustrated at myself for knowing what it is I need to do to fix this,

but being scared of looking stupid or feeling like I should just use that

time for something more productive.

In quotes, how do we get over ourselves enough to pursue what

we know will make us feel better?

Sincerely optimizing, but a little bit dying on the inside.

Oh, oh.

What are your thoughts?

Hearing this?

Oh

gosh, too.

Too relatable.

I'm like, been there.

Yeah.

And I think that's why, you know, we wanna talk about this is because so many

of us I feel like could write this exact message or something very similar and.

And I think there's multiple parts here.

Like there's the, um, kind of self-consciousness aspect of like, okay,

I wanna go do this fun or silly thing, but also like, what if I suck at it?

What if people perceive me doing it?

Mm-hmm.

So I'm curious what you think about that part of it, but I think like, just

like I was saying about the movies piece and like I, I've really had to kind of.

I don't know, battle feels like the wrong word, but like really work with

myself around this judgment of like, I should be using my time productively.

Yeah.

And so I think like sometimes you have to backdoor your way into it.

Mm-hmm.

And like, kind of like you're describing the value of that Sunday time.

Remind yourself that like, if we wanna get technical about it.

This play actually is productive in the sense of what it gives

you, right for your self care for.

You know, keeping your nervous system grounded and all of that.

So like if you need to kind of talk yourself into it by being like, Hey,

actually this will help me do better in all aspects of life, then do it right.

But also the more that you can like get out of that sort of

capitalistic mindset and just say.

You know what, also, like life is about having enjoyable

experiences and feeling alive.

And so God forbid, you know, blow a fucking bubble, maybe blow a bubble.

Like I don't, no fart outside.

I don't know, like, just like, go do something and, you know, circling back

to that life, oh, I wanna go do X, Y, Z, but I'm scared I'm gonna be bad at it.

Yeah.

I meet that so much clinically.

I meet that within myself where I've, I feel like I've thought of

so many instances in my life and.

I feel like I, I try to use the word like regret carefully, but like there

are moments where I think that like.

I was so anxious and so in my own way that I stopped myself

from going and doing something.

And I mean like simple stuff like trying out for the talent show in high school.

'cause who gives a shit, right?

It's high school.

And who was gonna remember?

And it's always something that I wanted to do, but I never did it.

Like I was always too scared.

I was always in my own way looking stupid, you know?

And I just think back and I'm like, who gives a fuck with like

most of these things, right?

We, we get in our own way bad.

Mm-hmm.

And like not, and it's not like this whole episode is like, stop being

the person that gets in your way.

And that's the only factor here.

Yeah.

It's not, but it is a big factor, right.

For most of us.

And it is a little bit of like, I know what I could get out of this, but

I'm still denying myself of doing it.

Yeah.

And so like, can we entertain, like what it means to

self-sabotage a little bit, right?

Mm-hmm.

Like not show up for yourself when.

No one else is gonna do it.

Right.

It has to be for you and you have to do that for you and, and kind of

reckon with like doing that can help.

The meaning making.

Yeah.

Ties into our last episode.

That's why I thought this was a good.

Place to put this one where like it, this stuff is really

existential when we think about it.

Yeah.

And I think also like challenging the idea of like what's cringe

and not being afraid Yes.

To be like the lady pre exercising through the park.

Right.

And there's a reason that that woman is like probably in her sixties, because

this is something that people often say.

You know, as they get into their thirties, forties, and beyond that, like, it's

like the bell curve of giving a fuck a fuck of what people think goes down.

And I think there's some, some element of that that's just

like developmentally aligned.

Like it makes sense.

Yes.

But also if we have a choice where we can speed up that process and remember

guys, we're not saying don't give a fuck, as in just be a little asshole

and like to think only of yourself.

But maybe give less of a fuck about people's perceptions of you.

Yes.

And especially if they're gonna think something you're doing

is silly or you're not good at it, like, or that you're weird.

Put your butt

in there.

Yeah.

I hear adults every week, oh, well what if I do this and or,

or what if they think I'm weird?

And I always.

No matter what they, what I've been met with so far.

When someone said Weird, I've looked everyone in the face and said, who cares?

Yeah, who cares?

It is such a con, oh, what if I reach out to someone on social media and ask

them, it's weird to be friend and be friends, and they think that I'm weird.

Well, what the fuck was all of this supposed to be for in the first place?

I'll make friends.

Yep.

To keep up with friends like we've lost.

We've lost a plot.

People we have about what's weird and cringe, who she's

self out there, put herself out

there.

And now it's time for the DSM.

In our DSM, all varieties of dysfunction, spiraling, and meltdowns are welcome.

In this segment, we break down complicated concepts and common misconceptions

about mental health, wellbeing, and tell you what we really think.

Of course, as you can tell, we're gonna.

Floor today, the relationship that we have with play.

Mm-hmm.

And silliness of course as adults.

And why play is actually integral to your wellbeing.

How we can start inviting, enjoy when you maybe have not felt very connected to it.

Yeah.

So let's start with defining what we mean by play.

And I love this definition from the National Institute for Play

'cause it is sort of one of those ideas where it's like.

You know, ask a hundred people, you'll probably get a

hundred different definitions.

Yep.

So what do the experts say?

Well, they say that it's not defined by the what mm-hmm.

That you're doing, the content of what you're doing, it's

defined by your state of mind.

Mm-hmm.

How are you showing up to that experience?

So, you know, you could have, um, two people doing the exact same

behavior, like tossing a ball or even typing away on their laptop.

And one of them might be in a state of mind that is playful and the other's not.

Right.

So I think that's so great.

Like it's, it's qualitative, it's phenomenological.

We love it.

Right?

Yes.

Um, it's a state of being marked by absorption, curiosity and joy.

And it's interesting because I'm sure we'll, we'll continue

weaving in and out of like.

There's so much similarity between this play state of mind

and what we call the flow state.

Mm-hmm.

It's almost like the, um, psychologist, the scientists like

needed to make it more corporate.

Yeah.

And so they called it, they called it flow because it has synergy.

Right.

But then, you know, I'm kind of just like getting curious about

like, huh, what is the difference?

Right.

If there is one, like, 'cause I think there's a lot where they could overlap.

Yeah.

But like, what's maybe play that's.

Where, or what's, what's flow state that's not play.

Mm. And I do think there is this element of joy.

Yeah.

That is 'cause the, the absorption and curiosity, I feel like is

a natural part of flow state.

Yeah.

But it's like when we're connecting with play, there is this element of

joy, um, that's not necessarily always a part of when you're climbing up

a boulder or, um, you're, you know, doing a, a clay pot or whatever.

Yeah.

Like, you might enjoy, you might enjoy that, but you're

not necessarily feeling joyful.

Joy.

So, um, time stretches just like in flow state, right.

That self-consciousness can sort of drop away.

Mm-hmm.

And we enter into what researchers call the play state a neurobiological

cascade that begins in the midbrain.

Mm-hmm.

Which is also the region that drives our hunger and like care and relationships.

And then it lights up networks across the brain, which, oh my god.

Oh, this is so crazy 'cause I did not even intentionally align

this with this conversation.

But, um, you know, I'm always in those Kindle daily deals.

Oh, bad, bad.

I'm like, there will be days where I don't buy any books and there's days

where I'm like, I just bought four books that are going in the library of 800

that I, when will I read them anyway?

So there was one that I got recently and I just started reading it last night.

Okay.

And then I did the practice this morning, but it's by, um,

Dawson Church called Bliss Brain.

Mm. And he's kind of like a little researcher, healer, sort of dude.

Um, and I'd heard of him, but I've never delved into his work at all.

And I really liked it because, and you're gonna dig this too, because basically he

took a lot of like, what are all of the neuropsychology spiritual healing people?

Noticing And how do we, can we bring it in together into like one practice?

So he calls it eco meditation and it's um, this idea of like, you get in, you,

you start with your tapping, you do open space, you get into heart coherence.

And then you're connecting to this bliss brain, this sort of like, um,

enlightenment circuit in the brain.

And so that's kind of the goal is like he's constructed this practice that

of course you can make your own, but like do these seven steps and if you do

this, you know, every day for however many days that you can actually, um,

start to really deepen that sort of enlightenment circuit in the brain.

Oh, I need to do that.

Right?

So.

Okay, sidebar.

Um, but going back to play, it, it, the key traits and

it's intrinsically motivated.

Yes.

Right?

So like, yeah.

Structured play.

Sometimes we can get into that state, um, team building exercises,

but it's done for its own sake, not for reward, not for performance.

Mm-hmm.

It's voluntary, self-directed.

So you get to choose the what and how.

Um.

Challenge by choice, whatever you wanna do, it's process oriented.

So again, it's the joys in the doing, not the achieving a result.

Um, of course there can be an overlap there, right?

Yeah.

There are maybe some things where it's like a game that someone really

likes where they're connecting with play and joy, but they

still wanna win the game, right?

Mm-hmm.

And then it's improvisational, so there's creativity and flexibility

and openness to possibility.

Totally.

Okay.

Let's explore why we lose play in adulthood, right?

Because I think even as I, even, even with clients or even just like with

friends, when I use the word play, it's always, it's kind of like a litmus test.

'cause everyone kind of gets like, so what do you mean by that?

You know, why are you asking?

Right?

And I'm like, Hey, I'm not the cop.

It's like calm down the play Police, Hey ha, the play Police.

Okay, fierce.

So of course, duh.

Capitalism and the cult of productivity.

I mean, whoopty fucking do One thing about us, we're gonna be

stepping on capitalism's net.

Take a shot on this podcast.

So play does not produce.

So of course we label it wasteful or childish.

Every activity must.

Justify the, you know, its existence through output.

So our self-care is monetized and we're buying way too many

face products that we don't need.

So you know how that then trickles into like what it means for like

trauma and the nervous system.

So we'll kind of get into a little bit of the paradox, but of course,

like play requires safety, both psychological and physical, of course.

So if your nervous system is.

Chronically in that survival.

You know, we're not leaning into curiosity and silliness.

That feels dangerous.

Mm-hmm.

It doesn't feel safe.

Um, you know, my brain plucked out with like polyvagal theory.

Mm-hmm.

Um, Steven Porges, so, you know, when we're looking, um.

You know, he has the, you know, autonomic ladder.

We have the ladder.

And so when we are in those like dorsal or sympathetic states,

shut down, we're shut down.

So like, we're not like, yay, let me go play.

We're literally just like trying to protect ourselves.

Um, gender and social conditioning.

So I think probably some of the personal work that I've had around this was in

therapy, realizing, you know, certain points across my childhood where.

Um, like I recalled a memory of my mom telling me that I

was too old to watch Dora.

And so like, she switched me over to Scooby-Doo and then like, I loved

Scooby-Doo, but like, and I don't even know how old I was, right?

Yeah.

But I remember her saying, you're too old to watch Dora now.

And so that was probably my first existential crisis ever.

I was like, I'm too old to watch fucking Dora.

Like, um, what is this

life?

What is this

life like?

Dominance, you know, like, I was like, oh my God.

So can I add a little bit to that?

Yes.

So I, I don't have a lot of like really clear memories from childhood, but

one that has always like stuck with me is when I walked into my first day

of first grade, because kindergarten, even at my, like, normal school Yeah.

Was.

Like, you know, there's the mat over here for reading time and there's the blocks

and there's the different like stations.

Yeah.

And it's all like bright and colorful and engaging and like that was kindergarten.

I walk into first grade rows of desks, almost nothing on

the wall, and I was like.

What the fuck is this?

You're like,

fuck this, I wanna go back.

Yeah, yeah.

Whoa.

First grade, like, Hey, the kids don't eat color.

Right.

Damn.

Um, so yes, you know, the women and marginalized folks are socialized to care

for others, not to delight for themselves.

Um, men are often taught that play must have points or stats or, you

know, like really just like that competitive nature with little

boys, you know, not softness or.

You know, engaging in, uh, you know, more nurturing play.

My mom was a nanny for so long and she always remembers having a little boy,

and he loved playing with like the baby dolls, and he would pretend to be a

dad, and his dad came in and was like.

He's not allowed to play with this anymore.

Aw.

And like stumped it in front of the kid and like my mom, you know, I

just think of these instances where we like say things and we think,

oh, just so flippant with kids.

Mm-hmm.

No, these kids are like remembering what you're saying

and like internalizing this shit.

Not all of it, but some of it.

And then of course, like neurodiversity and masking

where this kind of fits in here.

So your natural ways of play, if you're neurodivergent, you know, whether it was

a lot of repetition or fantasy or really going in on your special interests.

Um, can be met with, you know, being shamed or being judged.

Yeah.

So you're learning to suppress them.

Um, and so, you know, the flip of that is PDA pathological demand avoidance.

So like that.

Or that persistent drive for autonomy.

How, I like to flip that sometimes in adulthood where, you know, you may

now feel like a lot of, you may meet yourself in a lot of resistance or feel

resistance around this kind of stuff.

Or, you know, the importance of being able to engage in sensory play.

Um.

Or having special interests in my unmask group for a while, we did a

special interest series where everyone could come in and they could just

like have the floor for 20 minutes and talk about their special interests.

Love it, like uninterrupted.

And it was so joyful.

I was learning calculus and shit like it was so cool, and we

just gave each other that space.

Um, but like all of these, and so, you know, if you're a neurodivergent

and a woman and you're just suffering under capitalism, who isn't so

like thinking of just like how comorbid all of this is, right?

Like how much.

Layers are in this play, onion, if you will, of like what separates you from

that in adulthood if you're working with all of these different systemic

layers and how challenging that is.

Yeah.

It's not just about that.

Oh, well I'm in my own way.

Sometimes it is working with these systemic pieces, barriers.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

That a lot of us don't think about when it comes to this stuff.

Mm-hmm.

I think for real.

Yeah.

'cause if we don't feel safe, like it's hard to relax into that.

Yes.

So I'll throw another little, um, sidebar in here of something that I thought of.

So one of the ways that I connect with joy and play and sort of childlike wonder.

Is, um, there are certain little toys that I just love, like the beanie booze

with the bright, big sparkly eyes.

Yeah.

Like, I've just loved those.

And so over the years I've collected, you know, maybe 15 or 20 of them cute.

And they're like on display in our home.

Like it's not giving, the beanies have their own spot.

It's not giving like, uh, pottery Barn is out of date.

Whatever the fuck.

It's not what's Elm.

Something you're asking the wrong, a fancy one.

I don't know.

Anyway, so it's, it's not giving aesthetic, right?

But it is giving people live here.

Um, and so I had a bunch of them sort of like at different little

pockets on my book cases in my office.

And then during early COVID when everything moved online and I,

like all my clients were now seeing me virtually seeing my office.

We didn't yet have all these blur, fancy background things going on yet.

I removed all my beanie booze from my bookshelves.

'cause I was like, I need to be seen as professional and adult.

Right?

Yeah.

And then it was like, not even, um, I mean, I have some out other

places in the house, but maybe it was like a year or two ago.

I was like.

Why did I put those away?

And I brought them in, I put them back out on the bookshelf.

And if you're, if you're ever in a virtual meeting with me, look for them.

You'll see like a little dragon here and a turtle here, and like a unicorn.

And I'm gonna start looking now in

supervision.

I'm gonna be like here.

Yes.

And so it's like, you know, I, I could get in my head about like,

oh, what are people gonna think?

Like I don't even have any kids.

Why do you have these weird little stuffed animals?

Also, who cares?

Who cares?

They bring me joy.

Yeah.

Fun.

So anyway, I wanted to share that little example.

Um, that's a great example.

But going back to like why this matters is as you were kind of getting

into with polyvagal theory mm-hmm.

Play actually helps us shift into what POR just calls the social engagement system.

Yep.

And that's kind of the anti do.

For the shutdown and the antidote for that kind of chronic

nervous system, hyper arousal.

Yes.

So, you know, for all of our folks with complex trauma, if you need more

incentive to play, just know that this is actually a part of your healing, right?

This is part of when we are in the place state of mind.

We are naturally in that social engagement system that is

healing for our nervous system.

Um, also creativity is so huge when you think about the power and

necessity of creativity in society and innovating solutions for social impact.

I took a a class last summer on creativity and social change and

just all kinds of fascinating reading about the topic of creativity.

But we really connect with that when we're in that play state of mind.

Yeah.

So it's like you might have great ideas come up that lead to innovation

that have nothing to do with the play that you were doing, but because

you were in that state of mind, it unlocks something in your brain.

Mm-hmm.

Um, and then connection.

Um, the Gottman's would say that couples who play together stay together.

Right.

And, uh, this is something that I, I always love seeing this in couples and

it's one of, you know, the things that I value so much in my own relationship.

Um, I was just, I stalking Hillary Duff a little bit on her socialism.

Like she's got her new killer single out now, and I was like, so who's

she married to and who's this guy?

And like, seeing how they talk about each other and seeing their pictures

and they're so playful together.

Mm-hmm.

And it's like, I'm sure he could post all these like.

Stunning, beautiful pictures of her, but he posts ones where she's

laughing and they're being silly.

Yeah.

And I just love that.

Um, and then as you kind of alluded to that existential wellbeing, that

playfulness connects us with our sense of aliveness and awe and wonder and

meaning, which can really help when we're feeling a little nihilistic.

Yeah.

What's the fucking point of it all?

Little like.

Fuck humanity.

You, maybe you need to go play.

Indeed, indeed.

Um, so a little bit more about the science of play.

Um, and feel free to jump in here at any point.

Sure.

So the researchers at the National Institute for Play.

Um, tell us that play is not just a nice to have.

It is hardwired into our brains.

And that emotional circuit, again, in the midbrain, um, has been

explored a lot by neuroscientists.

So brain scans have shown that when we are engaging in some sort of playful

activity, those play circuits light up, that signals that ripple up to

the cortex and the cerebellum, and it helps us to deepen those neural

pathways that support our wellbeing.

So each of us have this unique.

Play nature.

Mm-hmm.

Our sort of preferred way of playing, whether that's movement, social, fantasy.

Um, and then when we stop activating those circuits in adulthood, if we do,

we experience, uh, real consequences?

Yes.

Whether that's like hopelessness, um, cynicism, rigidity in our

thinking, creativity and adaptability.

Um, we are more vulnerable to low moods when we're not in regularly.

Connecting with that sort of play circuit.

So think of it as this is a necessary part of your care for

your human animal being right.

Um, just like eating and sleeping is we, we seek control to feel safe, and yet the

paradox play requires that we surrender.

Yes.

Right.

Um, so we, the cure for over control is not more control, it's curiosity.

It's an invitation.

To take life a little less seriously.

Yeah.

Or take it serious enough to play with it.

That's right.

Hmm.

So how do we start inviting in this play?

Right?

What do we do with all of us?

We can't just be like, Hey, nervous system.

Like, can you figure it out, girl?

Like you?

Okay.

Go be, be more playful.

Goddammit.

Hey, whims, my nervous system is like, dude, what the fuck?

I don't know what you want.

So most of it is, you know, a, a safe but slightly ridiculous permission slip,

I think to find your way back into joy.

So the truth.

Ultimately you don't need to quote, learn to play.

I feel like I can move into some client cases where they're like,

okay, I've identified this now, um, step by step, how do I do right?

And I'm like, Hey, ain't no how can I check the boxes here?

Yeah.

And I'm like, Uhuh, we need to notice what already feels like

aliveness and stop apologizing for it, I think most of the time.

So.

First kind of invitation, rebrand.

Fun as a nervous system practice, kind of like you were saying already, Val.

So like, if play feels indulgent, then you can call it something

serious if you really want to.

Somatic regulation training.

Yeah.

Sounds militaristic.

Um, maybe it, maybe it tickles your brain.

I don't know.

Just try moving your body in new ways.

Doodling dancing while you make your coffee.

Talk to your plants.

I'm always like, Hey guys.

And my mom got into plants this year because I was into plants.

Yeah.

And now she's like, Sid, the snake plant.

Like she's building relationships with the plants and guess what?

They're growing and they're happy so.

It's, it's a cyclical practice.

Also, I love this one wearing a color that makes you feel like chaos.

Ooh, mine is kind of maybe orange.

What's yours?

Oh my

God.

I feel like I will wear the whole rainbow or color.

This is like graphic.

That's

true.

Polo is your favorite

color.

Um, follow the spark, not the skill.

We often quit playing because we confuse it with mastery.

Again, the mastery, the productivity.

Oh, I'm not good at this.

You don't need to be good at anything.

You just need to fucking do it.

You don't need to be good at singing, drawing, skating, improv.

You just need to be lost in it for a minute again, right?

Remembering that play state where the consciousness kind of dissipates a little

bit and you're just fucking in something.

If it's something that lights up your curiosity, then it's enough.

Yeah, just be with that.

Um, reconnect with your childhood play types.

I think most of us try to start here.

Hmm.

And maybe like can't access that yet until we're getting a little bit,

you know, of these first pieces.

Yeah.

We jump into, oh, I'm doing this, but now it's stupid or, and I'm

like, yo, if you're getting too frustrated, like we need to slow down.

Yeah.

So, of course, think back to what you loved as a kid.

Did you build stuff?

Did you tell stories?

You know, Lego, what is it like to do pottery, gardening?

Were you moving constantly?

What is it like to take that dance class, go for a hike, roll around on

the floor, which is highly underrated, spin in circles really fast.

Um, did you love pretending?

What is it like for you to go cosplay or karaoke or.

Uh, take an acting class like our childhood clues, our adult nervous

system into what still works.

Like there is still that spark there.

There's that version of you that love playing with that

stuff still inside of you.

So what is it like to run that circuit down to them really quick

and say, Hey, is this still here?

Yeah.

You know, I'm convinced by the way that that's why most of us like crystals.

Oh my God.

Not necessarily because like this Crystal does something, something different

that this Crystal doesn't do, but like

they're pretty and sparkly and I like to play with them.

They're pink and they're rocks and I'm collecting them and I'm

putting them on the shelf, and that's all that needs to happen.

So make it social when you're ready.

Play is contagious.

You can try micro play with people who feel safe.

So.

Slide in a goofy inside joke.

Maybe when you would maybe be more buttoned up and serious

or you know, try a new recipe without caring how it turns out.

That's a big one for me.

'cause I'm always like, this has to be, and I'm like, girl, it has to be nothing.

Edible.

That's it.

Girl.

It has to be edible.

That's it.

That's actually fierce.

That's a fierce reframe.

Um, social play reinforces safety and belonging again.

So remembering the importance about that belonging.

It's the opposite of doom.

Scrolling alone on the couch or in your bed, protect it like therapy

or whatever you like to protect.

You schedule your doctor's visits or your work meetings, you know,

what is it like to schedule joy too?

And I think people get dicey around this when people talk about, you know.

Scheduling the self-care or scheduling sex.

Like some people get really perturbed by making it feel like a thing.

And I'm like, I, I get that.

And this part might not be for everyone, but less scheduling.

How are you just making sure you do it?

How are you making sure you have that touch point with this?

How are, how are you protecting it?

Not because it's about efficiency, but it's because your life deserves the play.

It deserves the fluidity and the flexibility that can come from this.

Fun is not a luxury.

It is a preventative medicine for burnout and disconnection and despair,

which we are working Woohoo, with so much of in modern society right now.

So what is it like to lean into like the radicalization a little bit?

You know.

Well, of course, but for real.

But real with all of this play is how the soul stretches its legs.

If you've been carrying the weight of the world, like it's to your

job, I mean, it kind of is, I guess.

But remember that play is not frivolous.

It's data.

Mm-hmm.

It really is data.

It tells you what feels alive, what's, what's protecting what

matters to you and truly is integral to your mental wellbeing.

Go be weird.

Go be bad at something.

Go do something for the first time and not.

Care.

You know, you can care.

But don't get too caught up in what does this mean about me that I did

an adult dance class and it was bad.

It means nothing.

Let your freak flag fly because the fear of being judged is the only thing

in your power holding yourself back.

Mm mm Amen.

Okay.

I'll add one more little bit of lore about the beanie booze.

I need to hear it because, uh, I was just telling someone else's story the

other night and it really just like.

It was awesome.

So we were traveling maybe a couple years ago and you know, gas stations

have often amazing collections of Beanie Boo, even when you're in the middle

of fucking nowhere, which we were.

And so we're like at this gas station stopping on a road trip and oh,

they have a, a great selection here.

Mm-hmm.

And so I had two picked out and then I'm just like, you know, I

don't wanna be frivolously spending.

But, so I was very proud of myself 'cause I put back one.

Okay.

But I was like, I don't have a fox and I love this fox.

So I go and I get in line with Chris and I'm just like trying to,

you know, I'm about to sell him on why I need this other beanie boo.

And I'm just like, this is, she's so cute.

I need it.

And he's like, what's randomly for no reason.

'cause you know, in their little tie tags Yeah.

It tells you their name and birthday.

Yeah.

For no reason.

He goes, what's his birthday?

I open it up March 6th, my birthday.

Oh my God.

It was like, can you believe it?

So then I'm like, March 6th, my birthday, and the guy in line

behind me is like, me too.

Not these Pisces, just at the damn gas station in Buttfuck.

I know me and that guy and Meadow, the fox.

So I was just like, if anything was meant to be, it is me and Meadow

who now sleeps on my bedside table.

We're

twin

and, um,

my, I love that.

And now our musical segment.

Now, that's what I call where Emerson and I each share a song with each

other each week as representatives of our respective generations.

We tell you a little bit about the song or artist and then we press pause, we

share the song with each other, and then we come back for our live reaction

and we're capturing it all on a Spotify playlist linked in the show notes for you.

What's

your tune today?

So I wanted to pick something that of course makes me feel so playful.

So I picked Girl of Your Dreams by Eli.

So Eli is 25 years old.

She's making her break into the music industry.

I found her via TikTok, of course her, this is from her debut album Stage Girl.

So it kind of, um, it.

Chaperone coded.

Mm-hmm.

But I don't wanna, like, you know.

Yeah.

It's just, it's coded, it's adjacent story about a small town

Midwestern girl with big dreams to move to LA find her supers stardom.

Um, so Eli was posting actually on the days of Vine, so I remember Oh.

Seeing that side by side comparison and I was like, that's her.

Um, I just love that she is a, like trans artist.

She's like, she's.

For the Dolls, you know, like she's just so cool and her album and her

sound, I think you'll, you'll dig, it just feels playful and it makes

me think of the two thousands.

Mm-hmm.

Um, I linked this article here where it kind of.

Um, they were taking pictures of her and talking to her

about the album and like cool.

Her life.

She just seems really funny and cool and just very quintessential.

Okay.

Gen Z. So I think we're gonna vibe

it Sounds like a little whimsy core of it.

Oh yeah.

I just

ran away your.

Just white.

Um, but yeah, no, the, the lyrics video Oh my God is so

cute.

It's, it's so fun.

It's like really intentionally over the top, like tongue in cheek.

I love, oh, things that have a sense of humor about themselves.

Tea.

I'm glad you loved it.

Okay.

I'm, what's your song?

Okay.

So title is

crazy.

So this was originally, uh, a TikTok tune.

Did I find it on TikTok?

No, of course I found it on Instagram or YouTube, like a real grownup.

Um, but maybe two or three years ago.

It is probably my favorite thing on the internet, which is a large statement.

And that's also kind of funny that like this guy has released two whole albums.

He's this Australian comedian, musician, songwriter, actor named Tom Cardi.

Have I listened to any of them?

No.

Just this song, hundreds of times.

Uh, so I love this.

And the Wikipedia on him said, Cardi style musical comedy often

incorporates elements of awkward humor, observational humor, and surreal humor.

So we've got types of humor.

Get

ready.

I'm scared.

And one thing about an Aussie, they're fine.

Oh my God.

Your cheeks.

Oh yeah, we both.

This might be the reason why I've got no close friends.

Fucking worth it, baby.

Oh my God.

Perfect.

Oh, welcome to the segment.

Wait, what?

Where I filled that in on all of the internet vernacular and lore

so that she doesn't end up being an irrelevant elder millennial.

Chris, my husband who teaches middle schoolers are coming home 6, 7, 6

7, 6 7, and I'm like, I still don't.

I said rap song.

I don't understand.

Please fill us in.

Sure.

All of us hopeless older

people.

What the hell is.

Six, seven.

And so I feel like in terms of the interwebs, this is one where it took

me a while 'cause I was like, yeah, and I still don't feel all that confident

ladies and gents and everyone in between.

'cause I'm like, what the fuck do the kids mean by this?

Right, right.

From what I gather, it was a sri uh, a Scrilla song.

There was something about like.

The six seven was in there.

Yeah.

And then I was kind of seeing videos where they, it was like a

famous, and, I don't know, sports, sorry, I'm just a fucking girl.

Um, uh, a basketball player that's six seven.

So then it just, it, it had like, it didn't even really have like strong.

Like to me, like I'm a millennial, so like, I'll, I'll say something.

I was talking to Sam the other day and I said like, uh, hurricane tortilla,

and like, that's from a vine uhhuh.

And so he's laughing.

I'm laughing because we like, understand.

Yeah.

To me, six, seven, like this is the, this is the gen a's like this

is their, it's just brain rot.

Yeah.

So like you'll see them doing like their hands like this.

Six, seven.

So it's like six, seven.

Like it means nothing and

it's not

supposed

to mean anything.

Yeah.

Or it's kind of like, oh, it's like these two.

I feel like I've seen it where someone's been saying like, oh,

there's like two options for something.

And someone's like, Uhuh six, seven.

Like, it's just brain wrt.

Like that's the best way that I can describe it.

It's just not funny.

Sorry, Jen.

A I feel like we were, we were having these vines as millennials and it's like.

Uh, it's Joan's barbecue foot massage, which I did at the Oh yeah, yeah.

Christmas, uh, um, Uhhuh Christmas party, the whatever I remember and.

So like we can still like say those things and like we know what we're talking about.

So like that's Gen A is like, that's their just an inside joke.

It's their inside joke.

That means, that means literally nothing.

I equate six, seven as the gen a's version of um, 21.

Okay.

You have homework.

Okay.

So anyone that says Millennial 21, I feel like six, seven is their 21.

Anyone agree or disagree?

Feel free to chime in.

And the Gen

Xers, which was like, this would've been a little bit before my time, Beavis and

Butthead, I just thought was stupid.

'cause I was just like a little teenage girl.

Yeah.

Um, but it was like one of them, you know, short over the head, I'm the great corn.

Holy.

Mm-hmm.

And like there's all these memes going around about like, we

think six seven makes no sense.

Like we were coming to school talking about the great corn, holy.

Same.

I'm like, Jones Barbecue foot massage.

Like, why was I walking around, like down his spot?

Massage.

Yeah.

People are just loving inside jokes, you know?

We love it.

Yeah.

So like, you know, but we, but we shit on the Jens 'cause

like, it's a dumb fucking joke.

Y'all don't make no sense.

I, I'm making out that says you don't know what humor is.

I'm like, do I kind of agree?

Yeah.

But I'm like.

This is their attempt at an

inside joke and we're gonna keep the, uh, exploration going.

So if we uncover more deeper understanding Yes.

Of exactly the appropriate context in which to use six seven, we will update.

You'll, we will.

Yeah.

'cause this is serious.

It's okay.

And now for our last segment of the show, welcome to Fire Dumpster Phoenix.

It is rough out there, y'all.

And we need all the hope we can get.

It's time to go dumpster diving for some positive news and rides from the

leftover Happy Meal Ashes together.

So Valerie, what is your good news this week?

Ooh, so I was like, what kind of comedian out there?

Just as I was in a silly mood, is doing something good and

impactful and Tiffany Haddish.

Um, she grew up in foster care.

Okay.

In and out of foster care.

And so she, um, founded this 5 0 1 C3 nonprofit in LA called She Ready

Foundation, uh, because one, well, one of their big kind of missions is

basically just like, can we get all these.

Foster you some fucking luggage.

Yeah, some like actual, like an actual good bag or two that when they have

to move from place to place, they have something, rather than just throwing

all their stuff in garbage bags.

So, which is what she had to do.

So, um, it's really become, not only that, but also they do

like a life leadership academy.

Okay.

Um, where they can learn life and career skills.

Mm-hmm.

Uh, summer internships for youth in LA who are transitioning out

of the foster care system, and of course the luggage donations.

So.

Um, it is really, uh, intended as a voice of foster children

who are suffering in silence.

And as she says, Tiffany Haddish says, every child who's removed from their

parents deserves to have a suitcase, a safe place to lay their head, and

a platform to follow their dreams.

So check out the She Ready Foundation.

Wow.

Shout out Tiffany Haddish.

Yeah.

Yay.

Okay.

Mine is very silly to close this out.

Love it.

And so of course I come across a 1200 pound polar bear.

Okay.

His name is Henry.

I'm immediately invested.

Get Henry what?

Henry, what do you mean?

His name is Henry, or is it Ri?

Ri You know, maybe because he's, he lives in Ontario.

Yeah.

And the Cochrane, um, habitat, so they sound really cool.

This nonprofit, I think.

Um, so he's just a side to see when he was given.

I mean, okay, this is a polar bear.

He's big as fuck.

He's 1200 pounds uhhuh.

Um, he was given a 1400 pound pumpkin.

So one of his caretakers mystically is driving to work, comes upon this

huge fucking pumpkin in the road.

It like fell off the back of this truck, I guess.

And so they called and they're like, they call the people and

they were like, Hey, this like you dropped this big ass pumpkin.

And they were like, oh yeah, that sucks.

We're just gonna leave it there to, you know, compost or rot.

And so they were like, well, can we take it and give it to our huge ass polar bear?

And they were like, yeah, sure.

So they rolled this thing in there and Henry was kind of like, what the hell?

They said he was kind of getting buck.

'cause he's never seen anything.

Like, he's like, watch the fuck out, pump in.

No.

He's like, ah, like get out.

And then he was like, oh wait, I'm a silly rabbit.

It's a fricking pumpkin.

So he just was going to town on this thing.

You tucked into the pumpkin.

And there's a picture of him at the end of the article.

He's literally just like passed out because he ate so much pumpkin.

Oh my God.

So he was both eating it and then

cuddling with it.

Oh yeah.

He like is obsessed with this pump.

So he was like, oh my God, this pumpkin like we're not enemies.

And he was like, wait, I can eat this.

So he's just.

Tearing into this hoe and at the end he's just like in a pumpkin coma passed out.

It was actually really fucking cute.

Oh my God.

And funny, I was like, Henry, love it.

So, you know, sometimes you just gotta eat a 1400 pound pumpkin.

Yeah.

And then take a little nap.

And take a

nap.

Love it.

Be less serious.

Like Henry.

Yes.

Thank you.

Listeners, go do something.

Playful.

Yes.

Dammit.

And we'll see you next time.

Bye bye.

This has been another episode of But For Real, produced by Valerie Martin and

Emerson writer and edited by Sean Conlin.

But for Real is the Gaia Center production.

The Gaia Center offers individual couples and group therapy for clients

across Tennessee and in person in our Nashville office, as well as

coaching for clients worldwide.

For show notes or to learn more about our work, visit gaia center.co or find us

on Instagram at the Gaia Center and at.

But for Real Pod

But for Real is intended for education and entertainment and is not a

substitute for mental health treatment.

Also since we host this podcast primarily as humans rather than clinicians, we

are not shy here about sharing our opinions on everything from snacks and

movies to politicians and social issues.

Thanks so much for listening to this episode.

See you next time.

Bestie.