TRUE BIZ (adj./exclamation; American Sign Language): really, seriously, definitely, real-talk

In this episode of The Acknowledgments, I'm joined by Sara Nović, the author of "True Biz." Her novel introduces us to the students at the River Valley School for the Deaf. In this fictional story, the reader has the opportunity to explore the experiences, relationships, and unique aspects of the Deaf students at the school and the adults around them.

During our conversation, Sara shares her thoughts as an author who is Deaf and how her writing process has been influenced by her life experiences. Sara also opened up about the challenges and experiences she encountered during the book's publication.

Since Sara and I use different languages to communicate in that I speak English and she uses ASL, our conversation was translated by Kristin Steinmetz, an ASL/English interpreter, who volunteered her time to interpret our conversation. A full transcript is available here.

Connect with Sara: https://sara-novic.com.

Sara Novic (ASL into English by Kristin Steinmetz): Thank you so

Nutan Rubinson: much for having me. Now, Sara and I use different languages to communicate in that I speak English and she uses ASL. With that, we are joined today by Kristin Steinmetz, an ASL English interpreter. So thank you, Kristin, for volunteering your time to interpret our conversation.

Sara Novic (ASL into English by Kristin Steinmetz): Alright, so the book, True Biz, is about three students, they go to a deaf residential school, and they escape one night. That's really the start of the story. Now the book deals with a lot of stuff before and after, and trying to figure out, how it happened. So the book follows their stories, how they got to the school, and the six months leading up to the escape.

So we're really discussing what's happening in their lives and seeing how we lead to that event. Thank you.

Can you explain the origin of that phrase and why you decided to use it for the title of your book?

I wanted deaf people to right away know that this was their culture, their book, a very just ASL thing that they connected with right away. And at the same time, I wanted hearing people to feel a little off kilter, confused and be like, what does that mean? And pique their curiosity.

Now, when I was working with the publishers and the stores about the book, I felt a little bit uncomfortable because they were concerned about the title.

but I think it shows that it's not for hearing people. It's from deaf people for deaf people. And I wanted to make sure there was accessibility for deaf and hearing people. So I wanted to make sure that deaf people felt ownership over this book and this story.

Nutan Rubinson: So there's a few things there that come to mind. One is it worked from a hearing person to, I was waiting as I was going through the pages of what does true biz mean? And then when the book shared that and the characters shared that, I loved it because it was an example of how ASL is its own language.

There was nothing I could think of in spoken English to use. So I explained this term of True Biz. So it was a learning experience for me.

I think that's so cool.

the acknowledgments, though. In the acknowledgments, you thank many people, but one person I'm curious about is you thank Tereca Florence for her astute feedback toward an authentic representation of intersectional identity in our community. I actually started Googling Tereca, and I saw that she's an advocate for the Deaf community.

Thank you. And I'd love to hear about how you know her and why you decided to acknowledge her.

So when I finished the book

and I had all those interviews during my writing process.

I gave that finished book to Tereca and I asked her if she could really think about a way that I could have representation specifically and make sure that black deaf people's experience was told honestly and represented in the book.

Nutan Rubinson: Thank you. And that was actually a really interesting part of the book is then learning that there's all of these subcultures and then also the issue of equity and representation, even within the deaf community. So that brings me to the question of what has your experience been within the deaf culture and community?

And how did that fit into the characters of your book?

Sara Novic (ASL into English by Kristin Steinmetz): That was a big question.

and around middle school. I stayed in the mainstream educational environment.

I think that way I felt related to. The character of Charlie, that was my experience going to a mainstream school growing up around hearing people and feeling isolated and I didn't know any other deaf people at that time. So I grew up a little bit, not understanding a part of myself, a little part of myself was broken.

It felt or off compared to other normal people. And then later. When I met deaf people and started meeting more people like me, I realized I wasn't broken. I was just a different kind of person. So I think that experience really influenced the main character, Charlie, in the book.

Oh my God, people are like me. We've shared experiences. We understand each other. So now I have to figure out who I am as a person and not just who I am being deaf.

Now around hearing people, that's your identity, that's your label, deaf girl. So when you go to a residential school where everybody is deaf, it means that you can figure out who you are and who you are inside.

Nutan Rubinson: Thank you, Sara. Did you ever have the opportunity to go to a residential deaf school?

Nutan Rubinson: So related to that, one of the most impactful pieces of the book, actually, I felt was also your author's note, which includes a list of the deaf schools that have closed. And I think seeing that made an impact in just knowing the consequences of that now and the implications of closing those schools. What do you think can change this and provide more equity for Deaf children and their academic and social experience?

When a deaf child is born, most of the times 80 percent 90 percent of the time the parents are hearing and the first time that they meet a deaf person might be their own baby, so then what happens is they go to the doctor and the doctor says we can fix them,

but.

they can support hearing, but they're not going to. They're not going to fix everything. They're not going to solve this problem of deafness.

People think that they're going to put on a hearing aid, they're going to put on an implant, and they're going to be quote unquote normal. But that's not what happens to most of these kids as they grow up.

Nutan Rubinson: You shared in your acknowledgments, a thank you to the students at deaf schools around the country who shared their stories and meals and dreams with me. What was that experience like, going around and talking to those students?

And we were discussing why it's important for them to practice reading and practice writing. And there was an exchange there about how important that is.

For example, when I discuss in the book. With some deaf people, just some deaf students of color in Ohio,

I was discussing the book with deaf students and they were having an argument about who Charlie needs to meet who Austin is date, should be dating and which boy, like they were into the drama of the book. And I thought it was really fun that we could have this conversation with deaf characters.

And it might be

the first time they see someone who looks like them and represents them in a book. It might be their first example of that

It's interesting because seeing yourself in a book is something I think about a lot as someone that's South Asian. And I grew up in a place where there weren't a lot of South Asian characters that I could relate to. And it's been such a joy now to read books by South Asian authors with South Asian characters where sometimes it's even just a little thing that I connect to.

And there's been similar books and conversations I've had where it's been someone from the LGBTQIA community that has shared that, Oh, I really felt connected to this book. It's the first time I saw myself in these characters. So that's what this reminds me of. But to me, this wasn't a community that I was necessarily thinking of.

And so on that note, I need to hear about the girls at St. Rita that you mentioned in your acknowledgments who snuck out of the dorm that night to chat without getting them in trouble.

Sara Novic (ASL into English by Kristin Steinmetz): I'm sure they've graduated by now.

So my husband,

he took a job in Ohio, so when we moved, it was a real culture shock for me. I

weren't used to interacting with a deaf person, as opposed to in a big city.

So anyway, I started just... I was walking around and wandering at night and then one night I passed this deaf school and it was St. Rita's and I just happened to notice there was a couple girls standing in a line and it was very obvious, they were teenagers

So we made eye contact and they looked at me real quick. I think they knew they were caught. And so I went up to them, I started talking with them, and yeah, we just started talking. I explained to them that I used to live in New York, and they were like, oh, that's so cool, I want to go to New York.

So in that moment, I realized these deaf kids,

they can be home anywhere, as long as they have people and language. Socialization.

Nutan Rubinson: love that story. Those girls definitely thought they were in trouble.

Sara Novic (ASL into English by Kristin Steinmetz): Yeah, they did. They really did. They didn't expect me.

Nutan Rubinson: One of the other things I love in the book is all these different relationships that the characters, the teenagers, have with their parents. There's Charlie on one hand with her hearing parents and this challenge of really connecting with them. And even that her mother and father have different viewpoints.

And you also included in there, where's the beef? So that sounds like something I need to ask you about if it's not a super family secret. But I'd love to know, what is where's the beef? And also about your relationship with your family.

Okay,

Sara Novic (ASL into English by Kristin Steinmetz): this is so silly.

I don't know how it even started.

And people would make fun of us and bother us. My mom would always go, You want me to beat him up?

So she's I can. I'm beefy. I can do it, so it just became like a joke. So we would just tease in the family about it.

I think it goes back to the way we felt fully supported by our parents all the time. They were always there to support us. It didn't matter what she was ready to, put her fists up or if we were wrong, didn't matter. She was ready to roll up her sleeves and always support us.

Yeah, that's that story.

Nutan Rubinson: I'm definitely going to, along with True Biz, add, where's the beef when speaking to my children? So

Yeah. Roll up your sleeves. Get ready. Get in there.

Nutan Rubinson: As we've talked about the lack of representation within the writing world when it comes to deaf authors, deaf characters, what was your experience like in the editing and publishing world and throughout all three of your books, really, because this is the one that's talking about deaf culture and community, but you have two very different books that you've written already.

What has that experience

Sara Novic (ASL into English by Kristin Steinmetz): been like?

I think my first two books,

I do have a really smart editor. She's awesome. And I'm very lucky,

so those 2 books, I think there are more traditional and I think the stories are more traditional in the process.

And then for this book. I had already finished it, gave it to the editor, and then we just handed it to the publisher, hoping for the best.

But, it was a little bit more of a struggle to definitely decide to, were we going to publish it? How are we going to display it? How are we going to sell it?

I had my editor support, which was good and my manager,

but there are still a lot of question marks about if and how we would be able to make it happen. Would people want to read it? Would people buy it? It was a big question mark.

And then also

It was tough. It's different because I do have some pictures in there. I have illustrations and tutorials

and the way the dialogue is set up, I have that in italics and set up when they're signing so that you know that's happening like a conversation and sign. It depends on the page. They're not all going to look the same. So that was tough because people who make the books, they didn't know what was happening.

Like why are you setting it up like this? So that was, more discussions than I had experienced with the other more traditional books.

and read the book and it was an interesting experience because I believe you actually signed portions of the book that were in conversation. Can you share what that process was like?

I was like, whatever, whatever happens, you guys take that and run with it. But for this book, I really, I woke up in the middle of the night. I was just thinking what I should be doing. I knew I should change it, but I didn't know how for this specific audio book.

So I started it. There's crazy email and I sent it to my editor and I said, what are we going to do? We have to do the audio book. How are we going to include the conversations and the signing? So in the morning I was like, okay, take a breath.

So we're like, okay, awesome. And they said,

we can use the sound of sign in the book. And I said, okay I don't think I understand. They said, we're going to send you a video. And so they sent me this video.

It was some people signing

and I was like, okay. And I didn't understand what they were even proposing.

So I don't even know what I thought that. So I was doubtful we could make it work at that point, but we just kept keeping at it and it was obvious that, we had to figure something out.

So I decided to trust this team of people to make it accessible.

so they had these 3 microphones

and they told me to wear loud clothes and I was like, okay, so I was like, I need more information. I don't really know what you want me to do.

and people seem to like it.

But it was a fun experience for me because I would never be involved in an audio book process. Obviously.

And it was fun to change the dialogue and kind of be in control of what's happening there.

Nutan Rubinson: All I'm thinking about is you looking through your closet and looking for loud clothes.

Sara Novic (ASL into English by Kristin Steinmetz): Yeah, I brought four shirts with me. I said, which one is the loudest?

Nutan Rubinson: So tell me what's next for you in terms of writing and life. I know, I believe you're still a, are you still a professor or you're within you're doing, you're in some kind of educational capacity still. So tell me more about what's going on

Yeah. Right now I'm teaching two courses. One of them is a graduate course for creative writing, and one is an undergrad class for deaf studies.

Both are fully online right now, they're virtual, so that's a real mind shift trying to figure out how to make that work. For me, I have to learn the, how to teach in a different way, with this technology.

But some of it's been cool because it's a way to make things more accessible sometimes. So I am enjoying that part of my life right now. I always love teaching.

so this new book that I'm writing right now, it's nonfiction and it's going to be a combination of history and memories. And so that's what I'm working on now.

And I also have 2 sons right now. 1 is deaf and 1 is hearing. So part of the book is writing about the experiences having a hearing son. He's a CODA now, a child of a deaf adult. So his first language is going to be ASL as a hearing person. And then I have a deaf son. And obviously he's adopted

he grew up in an orphanage.

So he's a little bit limited in language right now. And he's really catching up fast.

So this book is also going to be including letters to each of my boys.

About, different topics, different experiences and raising them. And the ways that we are all different from our parents sometimes. And that's what it deals with.

Nutan Rubinson: What's their relationship like between your sons?

Sara Novic (ASL into English by Kristin Steinmetz): They are obsessed with each other. It is so funny because My hearing son,

They just want to be together all day. It's so funny. I love

Nutan Rubinson: that.

What is that she said? She fingerspelled emphatically. Question marked her eyebrows. Austin understood. First with a flash of recognition. He scrunched up his faith and gave her a scolding finger wag. Finger wag. He said Charlie was disappointed. So is an am and r just weren't. How could a language exists without so fundamental a concept?

Charlie copied the sign, but that didn't seem to be what he wanted. She stared. Me, said Austin, pointing to himself. He patted his chest, then his arms, then held out his hands. Like to flex his fingers before her, you, he said, he took her by the wrist and held her own hands out before her. She looked down at her palms and understood her being was implied.

felt like a lot of pressure to read your beautiful words, Sara.

Sara Novic (ASL into English by Kristin Steinmetz): You're already better than me.

Tell me why

Nutan Rubinson: you picked this page,

Sara Novic (ASL into English by Kristin Steinmetz): this passage.

I think this is a big moment for Charlie in the book. And she starts to realize... That what you said before, English, it's not English on your hands. It's a different language

and she already has that language inside of her as a deaf person.

It's something that hearing people in general, hearing students will ask me about ASL and they start to understand.

They want to know how do you sign is, how do you sign are ? But

It's not about changing and doing a word for word translation, it's not how it works. You have to completely change your mindset to change things into ASL grammar and ASL signs.

I think that's actually one of the best parts of American Sign Language.

It forces you to use your body in a different way. The way that we're used to using our body, just standing, and standing behind our words, now we can have more impact with our hands.

I tend to be a shy person, but with ASL, I'm forced to get out of my shell and really use my full body in expressing myself.

So that's what this book did for me, which is, at least for me, that felt like

Sara Novic (ASL into English by Kristin Steinmetz): a big deal.

Nutan Rubinson: Thank you so much, Sara. I really appreciate you joining me on the acknowledgments today, and thank you, Kristen, for making sure that we could have a conversation