Tune In to Part Two of the Pilot Episode of the Just Us Podcast!

Join Liz Nolley and Kere Thomas as they continue to keep it real in Just Us—the podcast where Black women unpack the realities of life, leadership, and leveling up in corporate spaces.

In this highly anticipated second half of the premiere episode, Liz and Kere dive into a Reddit letter titled "Black Girl Navigating Corporate America."  Together, they share insightful advice on how to foster authentic relationships at work and strategize ways to "layoff-proof" your career.

But that’s not all—this episode also features the debut of their signature Boss It or Toss It segment, where they salute some of their favorite Black TV sitcom career moms and break down what makes them boss-worthy (or toss-worthy as the case may be!).

Come for the coaching, stay for the laughs. Either way, don’t miss the second installment of this game-changing conversation. It’s real talk, real advice, and a whole lot of fun!

Hey, everybody. I'm Liz Nolley.

I'm Kere Thomas.

And welcome to the Just Us podcast, a place for Black women navigating corporate spaces.

What's next? What are we going to do now?

Now, Liz. What qualifies us to be doing this?

All jokes aside, I know we have a lot of fun. Well, it's literally 30 plus years of corporate experience. This podcast is for Black women navigating corporate spaces, and we've literally been navigating corporate spaces for 30 plus years. So I think there's theory, there's practice, and then there's lived. Yeah. And we have all three.

We do have all three. You, as a coach, me, as a PR professional, also, who has helped. people build their personal brand as part of their careers because I've supported c-suite executives like you and you and your coaching you definitely know how to give people the tools to help them improve their careers. So I think that's definitely what gives us the credibility to do this.

Listen, been there, done that matters, right? And we've both walked in these corporate streets long enough to know that there aren't enough of us who have been there and done that at that next level. Right. Like VP and higher. Right. Like we've achieved. And, you know, this is our way of giving something back, I put it this way in my coaching practice, took me 25 years to figure some of this stuff out. So I'm on a mission to get you there faster so that it doesn't take you that long to figure it out like it took me.

Exactly. Let's get to the readout. All right.

So welcome to the readout. And because this is our very first episode, we're going to go to Reddit for this one. But we encourage you all out there who are listening to submit your own letters. But this one is from a listener on, I mean, a writer on Reddit called Chronicles of Me. And her post is entitled Black Girl Navigating Corporate America.

I think this is a great kickoff to the podcast. Yeah. Because this is what we are ultimately all about. It's why we're here.

She says, she writes, hey, everyone, I'm looking for advice as I've been in corporate America for four years, starting during the peak of COVID.

Most of my roles were remote, but since returning to the office, things have changed. I'm usually the only Black woman on my team, and while I get great feedback from both my managers, either white men or white women, and other leaders in different departments, and great performance evaluations, I've been laid off twice— once due to reductions and once for reorganization.

I suspect my introverted nature and reluctance to share personal details might be factors, especially since none of my managers had any type of relationship with me, unlike my coworkers whom they get along with. Great, or at least in my case, brought in old co-workers who were white. They've worked and liked before. I'm going to just pause there. Remember that conversation we just had around sponsorship and people don't know you, right? When there's no conversation around you, when the conversation is... I don't really know her. This is what I'm talking about, right? Because even when budget cuts and things like that happen, and we've all reordered, like I've been laid off twice in my career. Career have you right? So we've like being laid off. It's hard not to take it personally, but you shouldn't take it personally because it's not like a pen stroke— it's probably the least personal thing an organization does, besides making money. Right, right.

But when you're on that side of it, it's hard not to take it personally and think that you're doing something wrong. But this is somebody who could totally benefit from mentorship, coaching, and building her personal brand inside her organization so that she has sponsors in the room. When they're making those decisions around who to cut and who stays, and who goes, somebody speaking for her.

And that's key because she says she's introverted. That's me too. Me too. And the hardest thing it is for me to step up and speak up oftentimes to sell myself for, you know, the talent and skills that I think I have. And that is where, like you said, sponsorship comes in because you need that person who is going to speak on your behalf when you can't or when you don't feel comfortable.

Yeah, 100%. So, I mean, people get surprised when I say I'm an introvert, but I am. I don't drink.

People told me that too.

You know, I don't drink. So going out for drinks after work and all of that. Right. And up until just recently, for like for 30 some odd years, I commuted, you know, an hour and a half one way into New York City. So staying after work wasn't my jam because I just wanted to be quiet and fight my way through the traffic and make my way home. You know, and I'm just learning to golf, so you know, so all of these kind of stereotypical things that we think of in terms of where those you know personal connections get made at work—helping manage the conversation. That's not for me. It's never been for me. However, I have found a way to manage, to find my voice and make those personal connections. Sometimes it's just having virtual tea or virtual coffee with somebody. Hey, can I get 15 minutes on your calendar? Or, if you're back in person, popping by somebody's office.

Every now and then, poke your head in, 'Hey, how you doing?' Whatever— like asking them about the kids or what they did this weekend. It doesn't have to be long, deep, intense conversation. It's just: you're in, you're out, or just going out to lunch with your coworkers and colleagues once in a while to kind of step outside of it. This kind of self-created bubble you can do that in a way that's comfortable and authentic to you.

Exactly you could have a conversation at the coffee station I’ve had numerous conversations that way and it's an opportunity to show interest in what someone might be doing, you know, I just ask a simple like, oh, what are you working on these days?

Great question.

Yeah. While you're making coffee, like you can be that introvert that you are, but you can slowly start to build your presence with people that are the decision makers or people that can influence how you're perceived.

Yeah. One of my, a friend of mine who's a superstar basketball player in college told me, I said, well, you know, he was playing, he played against all these like superstars, you know, who like who you would see on TV all the time. I feel like, wow, what's it like playing with him or playing with this one? And some of these guys went on to play in the NBA. And I remember asking him one time, like, how do you play against somebody like that as a mortal human being, you know? Like, how do you play? He goes, you know what, Liz? Before every single game, I just remind myself that they put their shorts on one leg at a time, just like I do. And then I go out there and I give it my best. Right, that's all you can do. And that's who these corporate leaders that are so many rungs up the food chain from you, like they're just people just like you.

I got over being starstruck by like...Oh, he's the CEO of this multimillion-dollar company. And oh my God, now I got to go and sit in a room with him. And as soon as you hear one sentence from them, you're like, 'Oh, he doesn't know it either.'

Exactly. That's why they all have coaches. So anyway, let's get back into this letter. So she continues. She says, 'Despite my strong work performance and push for advancement, I am starting to feel very discouraged in the corporate world. I will say, however, due to my RBF,’ I'm not sure what that means.

Oh, you know what that means. Resting…face.

Oh, resting. Oh, my bad.

“Due to my resting b--- face, people in the office always thought that I was in a bad mood. I guess they didn't really... see the need to be smiley smiley all the time or to talk to anyone.”

This is a personal peeve for me. I get her in this sentence right here. I don't always want to chit-chat with... My random colleague, like, yes, I did just say, go talk to the person at the coffee station, but I'm not saying you have to do that every day and it doesn't have to be a group activity. Right. Sometimes I just want to go about my business and get my work done. Right.

I think too, you know, like this is hard for everybody. It's hard, not everybody, but it's hard for a lot of people, right? I mean, how many times do you hear white women in particular talking about what a microaggression it is for them when they're told, 'you need to smile more,' you know, and things like that. So, I think as women in general, you know, like, it's not just you. But to your point, you can take little steps. You don't have to become the life of the party overnight. Like, you can just find one. There's got to be one person on the floor that you work with, one person on the team, one person— outside of your, like, self. — created corporate bubble that you can ask a simple question like, 'What are you working on?' or 'How is your weekend?’

And look, I don't know if there's a cure for RBF. I don't think that there is. So she has to find ways to put herself out there that doesn't feel unnatural. Like you said, she doesn't have to be the life of the party. Your RBF isn't going anywhere. So you have to take measures to...kind of counteract that.

100% because you can't change that conversation to, 'Oh, she got RBF,' or 'Oh, she just has RBF. She's a sweetheart. You know what I mean? Like there's a difference. She's got a little RBF. That's just her.

But you know what I mean? You can do that, but it just takes a while. It takes a little time to build those connections. So people could be like, 'Oh, that's just... That's just her. She's a wonderful girl.'

So it gets better for her. She says, 'I recently received an exciting new job offer where I connected well with the manager and her manager, both white women. I really want this job to work for many reasons, and I know I will need to have a different approach with this role since I see now being great at your job is not enough.' She just preached a whole sermon. Wait, wait. We can go home now. My bad. Okay. Am I too old to do this? Probably. Okay. So moving on as a first generation professional who hasn't taught, who wasn't taught the game. Well, that's why we're here. I'm seeking advice on how to not only be a great employee, but also connect with my new manager and colleagues? How can I earn their respect and build relationships that help me advance in my career? Basically, how do I get them to actually like, in all capital letters, me? One quote I heard from my mentor, a black man in the same field but years older, to make yourself invaluable to them to where they will never look your way when it comes to reductions but for promotions.

How do I do that? Question mark, exclamation mark, question mark, question mark, question mark. Any advice is appreciated so much. I'll start.

Please do, because I have so many emotions right now.

First of all. You don't have to like people that you work with to work with them. One of the things that...Can I say the P word on air? Pledging? Can I say that? No. Oh, okay. I can't say pledging. But one of the ways of coming in old school in my sorority taught me, I could say that. Okay. Was that you can learn to work with people you don't know and you can work with people you don't even like, okay? So abandon that limited belief that... It's always about people liking you, okay? What you need to do is share enough of yourself so that people feel connected with you. That translates into like. Right. When the conversation is being had at performance review roundtables and that sort of thing. But they just need to know you. They probably already know your work, but they need to know a little bit about the personality that goes with that work.

I think she said, 'How can I earn their respect?' And I think that's more important than whether they like you or not. They have to know this person is competent, can do the job, and will be a team player. I think that's it.

And getting that across is, to me, the most important thing. I could care less how much somebody actually likes me. Really. As long as you are fair when it comes to she doing good work, she's a good employee, she's supportive, that's all I need.

100%. I used to be a major corporate people pleaser and it got me so far, but after a while, it got me nothing. And when I got so mad, I kind of, I remember being in a meeting one time, this was back when we were working together. I just...what to me felt unleashed and just was like, and people were like, 'okay, okay, okay.' We got it, we got it, we got it, we got it, we got it. And everybody was like, good job, good job. And I thought, Oh, okay. It wasn't like I didn't have to be Suzy Sunshine, you know, the people-pleasing, kumbaya kind of a person. I just had to do what needed to be done in that moment. And be a leader, whether or not I had a position of leadership, and be a contributor, and show my value. That mattered more than quote-end quote likability. It's about connection.

I want her to learn that early on and not feel like that's something that she needs to strive for. Because then that's going to impact her ability to succeed going forward. Because she's always going to be like, 'Oh, I need to get this person to like me.' Oh, I need to get that person to like me. And I know we talked about adaptability, but that's not adaptability.

A hundred percent. So there were some good answers in here. This one person responded to her saying, 'Here's what worked for them.' And they said, smiling when I talk. Making your boss look good, yes. That's teamwork from the Wu-Tang Clan right there. If you make other people look good, they'll, you know, Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis were members of The Time, right? Their careers didn't skyrocket and they didn't get into the real ka-ching of things, making money, money, shmoney, shmoney, until they started making people like Janet Jackson and other people look great, right? Writing, producing, you know.

It's not a word— A &Ring and, you know, and helping like doing whole artist development, making other people look good. And they built their entire careers around it as an example, right? So I think that's a great lesson in corporate America. It's not about you all the time. It's about making other people, particularly your boss, look good. But this other person continues and says, 'Saving a few minutes at the beginning of meetings for small talk.'

Yes. That's that coffee talk. I like that. Right. Like chit chat, chit chat. You know, if only for a minute or two.

Don't come into the room, the conference room, and sit down in the far corner and not say anything until the meeting starts. Like, I think it's fine to just have a conversation. Hey, how you guys doing?

That's a, you know, body language is so important. Sit next to somebody in the room. Or if you're the first one there, sit like smack dab in the middle of the room to force other people to sit next to you or across from you. And when they come in, good morning. Hey, how you doing? How was your commute? Like how crazy was the weather? Did you see the game last night or what? Like small talk. Yeah.

It doesn't have to be fake, phony, pretentious. It could just be, 'Hey, how you doing?' Right. How's your day? How's your day? I'm glad it's four o'clock.

Right. Exactly. Congratulating and thanking people. That's leadership level behavior.

Pleases and thank yous cost nothing. So you should have an endless supply of them at your disposal at any time. It's not hard to say thank you. Yeah. And then the last bit of advice that the other readers gave her was helping others and asking for help.

So it's interesting. In corporate America, a lot of people think that their officially assigned work is the only work that they can do. And a lot of times you can raise your hand for a stretch assignment, for an extra assignment. You know, don't let it get in the way of the day job that they hired you for. But if there's a project team and your boss is saying, 'Hey guys, we're going to be rolling out this huge thing,' you can go to your boss and say, 'You know what, that project sounds really interesting to me. I would love to help with that.’

I have been, sometimes I have been loaned out to... So many different teams that people don't know what team I'm actually on. My last job, I supported finance, HR, technology, in some way, shape, or transformation— because my reputation was... she can fill in that role for you and she can support you in that. And so people then come to me and ask me, can you help out on this? Or if it's something I'm really interested in, of course, I'm going to be like, let me know if you need some help with that.

And that's how you find sponsors. And that's how your sponsors find you.

Yeah. Now, I don't agree with her mentor who said, 'make yourself invaluable to them to where they never look your way when it comes to reductions or promotions, because that's just not realistic to me.

True, true.

But you can make yourself invaluable to them in knowing that, if a certain task comes across their desk, you're the right person for it.

100%. It's about connection. It's really about connection. Because if they know your skill set, your work ethic, how you do things, and things of that nature, then they'll think of you as, and even if your position gets eliminated. Then they'll be like, 'but you know what? Kere is great at blah, blah, blah. Maybe we can put her over here.

Yeah. You know? Right.' And be open to opportunities to expand your skills as well. So it doesn't limit you.

Raise your hand. I raised my hand. A company I work for was launching a corporate foundation. And, you know, I love community service. I told my boss, I was like, 'Oh, I want to work on that.' In some capacity, I want to work on it. And what was great about it, one, it was a great opportunity to blend my personal and professional passions. But two, I met... senior executives from all different corners of the organization who I would never otherwise have a chance to work with, including one that's currently my big boss, because I volunteered for that assignment. So just to recap: Black Girl Navigating Corporate America.

Get you a coach, leverage your mentors, and step out of your comfort zone. Leverage that small talk to build the conversation around you to help. What else would be your parting thought?

My parting thought would also be to, like we said, be open to engaging in small talk just to make those connections. You might find shared interest with someone else. Just through doing that too.

100%. And you could do it in an authentic kind of a way. Yeah. But get you a coach. You need a coach. Definitely get a coach. And leverage your mentors.

Find another mentor. Another mentor. Not that guy.

And you can have more than one mentor, more than one coach, more than one sponsor. You could have multiple of those roles on your personal board of directors, by the way.

Basically, how we started the episode. Build your board of directors. 100%. And carry it through.

Period. Okay, I'm too old to say that. I'm sorry. My bad.

Well, that wraps up the readout section of the program. Why can't I talk tonight?

We're going to take a quick break and then we'll come back for Boss It or Toss It. Yeah, I can't wait.

Imagine PR

So I'm so excited. Welcome to the first ever Just Us podcast version of Boss It or Toss It.

And we're just going to let out and have a little bit of fun. And these are just things that, you know, when it's just us and us talking, how do we feel about it? If we like something, we're going to boss it. And if we don't, we're going to toss it.

So when we came up with the concept for this first episode about Black women navigating corporate America, we were thinking like, what kind of... boss it or toss it would fit with the subject matter. And I think we came up with an excellent one because one of our favorite things is sitcoms… Black sitcoms in particular, yeah. So let's talk about some TV career moms.

Love it, all right. All right. So first up, The Matriarch, the OG that would be Florida Evans.

Boss it or toss it?

Boss it or toss it? You're going to toss it?

Damn, damn, damn. Florida Evans.

Florida Evans is so problematic for me. She always has been, but in 2025, she is really, she's very, how do I say? She's very mainstream, supportive.

Understood, but off-screen, Esther Rolle was a boss. Esther Rolle, completely different person. To have a Black father figure on the show. Yes. So I'm going boss up Florida. Okay. Just for Esther Rolle. You're going boss up.

I'm going to boss it.

You're going to boss it? For real? After what she did to... And after she tried to play it with Lona like that. I was going to toss her like all day.

You could toss her. This is why I'm going to boss her. Okay. Because... In the end, she reformed herself and she came back to be a good mom. However...

I don't like it. I don't like it. Had me scared of irons and like. Well, a lot of these youngsters won't know the context. That's all right. They can Google it. But it scarred me until I couldn't sleep until I saw Charlene on Different Strokes and I knew that Janet Jackson was OK.

Before we get to Walona, Chip Fields is a boss in real life. Chip Fields is a boss in real life. So shout out to her.

As is her daughter. Yes.

Shout out to them.

Shout out to them.

So Walona, boss. Boss it. Boss. Boss.

Boss all day.

Listen. She did her thing at the boutique.

Exactly. She was a career woman.

And was one of the original Black adopting mothers, an adopted mom myself. Yes. Bossing with Wilona all day.

Listen, let me say this.

Plus, she mixed it up with James.

She did. And Buffalo Butt. Yep.

Walona is the epitome of... Rich Auntie. Yes. The original TV Rich Auntie.

100%. Shout out to her. And she sang... The theme song. And she sang the theme song. When Georgia Weezy moved on up. Speaking of which, let's talk about Miss Weezy. How about Louise Weezy Jefferson?

I'm a boss it.

I'm a boss it too. Yeah.

There's no one who can handle George the way Louise could. Boss all day. And he loved that woman too.

But he used to sing Mona Lisa to her. Anyway, yes.

Okay, so on the subject of the Jeffersons.

Lenny Kravitz's mother. I know that wasn't her name on the show. Her name was Helen. Okay, but Lenny Kravitz's mother. Thank you. Thank you, Helen Willis, for giving us the living gift that keeps on giving, that is Lenny Kravitz. That's true. That's true. But Roxy Roker. Yes. Let's call her and recognize her and honor her by her government. Boss, boss all day.

Al Roker's cousin. Boss, definitely a boss because she also could get with George. She had a powerful corporate husband and she was able to navigate those spaces. And so give it up for Helen.

100%. And speaking of power couples, the one, the only, Miss Claire Huxtable.

Claire Huxtable, boss it. Boss it all day. Let me just say that. All day. She is, the character Claire Huxtable is my aspiration. Even though I never got married and don't have kids. If I would have I would have wanted to be Claire.

Equally yoked for days with her husband. Absolutely. Could be that corporate, play that corporate game. But could read Vanessa with an elven and whoever else needed to be read. So you would have big fun. Fun with the wretched. Like she could read you. Of course. But then be that corporate person too.

They showed that on episode one when she came down them steps, her very first scene. She came down them steps as a black mother. Okay. And I love that about her. I love. So Clara Huxtable will always be my number one.

Boss, boss, boss, boss. Okay.

Harriet Winslow, Family Matters.

What you got?

I'm going to boss her. I'm going to boss it. And I'm bossing it because of this. She started out as a minor character on another show. Got the spinoff.

Perfect strangers.

Exactly. And was captivating enough. And when the show, and I know they had their drama off screen when it became the Urkel show and all of that kind of stuff. Harriet Winslow and Carl Winslow, she just looks like your mama. She looks like your auntie. You know her from church or the family reunion. She probably is skilled enough to... Give you the money for the DJ on the sly and bake the mac and cheese on Christmas. I'm just saying.

See, that's my problem. I'm a boss her, but I don't think Harriet could make the mac and cheese. No, for real? She does not like to make the mac and cheese to me.

No? For real? She was like so real. And like that mom and...

She should be a rich auntie.

Okay, I give you rich auntie vibes. But on the show, she raised two...well, two good humans and one that went missing, went up the stairs and never came back. But the other thing that I like about Harriet was that she didn't look like a stereotypical Black TV mom. Like, she wasn't, like... You know, there's so many beautiful shades of black and she was a beautiful shade of black. And she's just stunning in her own way. And she looks like somebody like she was so relatable.

She looks like a real person. A real person. And as opposed to being glamorous or— A supermodel, whatever.

Or stereotypical in a negative way. Yeah, exactly. She's just— Yeah. All right, cool. All right, speaking of which, the OG, original Aunt Viv, go.

Boss all day. There's nothing else to say. It's original Aunt Viv. Nobody like her.

New Aunt Viv?

Wait. The only reason I'm tossing for new Art Viv is because...The original character was so strong and outgoing. She was so docile. And it kind of like took her back. Now, if we talk about the new series.

I haven't seen that. I need to watch it.

New, new Aunt Viv. Boss all day.

Oh, for real? Okay. Okay. All right. I got to check that out. Maybe we'll make her another list. Put her on another list in a future episode. All right. So now we go in 90s.

Gina on Martin. I know she wasn't a mom, but...

She wasn't, but she was a career woman. Boss it.

Boss it. Yeah. Yeah, she's a little annoying.

Gina on My Wife and Kids. Even though her name wasn't Gina, she's always going to be Gina.

She's always Gina. Gina and house party. She's just always Gina. No disrespect. She Gina forever.

Okay, moving on. We're speaking some unspoken black conversation happening right here. We here. We here, okay. How about... Dr. Rainbow Johnson.

Oh my gosh. Rainbow is the second coming of Clara Huxtable.

Okay. Her hair game is fire.

There is nothing you can tell me about Rainbow that I'm going to dislike. Come on now. Come on. Nothing. That's my girl. Boss all day. All day.

And last but not least on the list is Cookie Lion.

I'm a boss it.

Me too. Cookie was ratchet. But she was also fearless. Exactly. She was loyal. You know, she wasn't no snitch. She got a little crazy at the end, but she loved that man.

She loved Lucius. She loved her kids. She tried to do the best she could for them, even though they didn't always want to listen. And sometimes she had to go a little across the line. To get it done the right way. But let me tell you, that woman was a boss. Yes, she was. And she was very well respected too. Yes, she was. So shout out to Cookie. Shout out to all our boss TV moms.

All right, Liz. With that. That's it.

We out. We'll see y'all next time. Wait, wait. Let's raise the glass. Shameless plug.