The winner of the NCAJ’s 2025 Charles Becton Teaching Award, Chris Nichols reflects on his decades-long commitment to NCAJ's continuing legal education programs and the North Carolina Mock Trial Program. Joining the conversation is one of Chris’ mock trial students, high school senior Sam Circosta. “The great thing about mock trial is we're not necessarily training lawyers. We're just training leaders. That's what Sam has been for the last four years,” Chris tells host Amber Nimocks. In addition to discussing his journey as a teacher and coach, Chris also highlights his role as NCAJ’s government affairs consultant and previews upcoming CLEs.

🎙️ Featured Guests🎙️

Name: Chris Nichols

Connect: LinkedIn

Name: Sam Circosta

Connect: LinkedIn

💡 Episode Highlights 💡

[02:42] “Sign Me Up”: Sam Circosta wasn’t supposed to join his high school’s mock trial team, but he was intrigued after a chance meeting with former state champions. Now a senior at Broughton High School and mock trial team captain, Sam has walked out of the courtroom for the last time and hopes the experience will inform his future.

[05:40] Training Leaders, Not Lawyers: Chris explains that mock trial isn't necessarily about training future lawyers—it's about developing leadership skills, as demonstrated by Sam's ability to coordinate two teams with 16 people managing multiple extracurriculars.

[07:16] “I Knew I Wanted to Coach”: Chris started coaching mock trial as a second-year law student at Wake Forest, even before he knew what NCAJ was. He’s been doing it for 32 years.

[11:20] Call for Volunteers: Mock trial is a heavy lift. It’s also a unique way to help the next generation of lawyers. That’s why Chris puts out the welcome mat to volunteers. “I would encourage people who support mock trial with their time, their efforts, and also their money to keep doing it because it is a great program.”

[13:08] New UIM Laws: The “UIM/UM Unpacked” CLE on Feb. 13 is sold out, but members will be able to view it on the NCAJ catalog next month. With his “legislative hat on,” Chris will present about new UIM laws.

[17:01] “I’m the Medicaid Guy”: On Feb. 27, Chris will present about Medicaid disbursements at the “Disbursements 2026: Back to Basics” CLE.

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Voices of NCAJ features members of the North Carolina Advocates for Justice talking about what it means to be a trial lawyer, what it takes to be great at the practice of law and how being a part of NCAJ enriches their lives and their careers.

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Welcome to Voices of NCAJ.

We're talking to members of the North

Carolina Advocates for Justice about what

it means to be a trial lawyer, what it

takes to be great at the practice of law,

and how being a part of NCAJ

enriches their lives and careers.

Produced and powered by LawPods.

Welcome everyone to Voices of NCAJ,

the podcast for the North Carolina

Advocates for Justice. I am Amber Nimocks,

your host and director of

external affairs for NCAJ.

Before we get started,

I'd like to thank our circle of leadership

gemstone level members for supporting

NCAJ's mission and this podcast.

If you're watching on YouTube,

you can see a list of circle of leadership

firms at the end of the podcast.

To find out how your

firm can join the circle,

go to ncaja.com/circle.

I'm starting out today with two guests.

One is Friend of the Pod and NCAJ

Governmental Affairs consultant,

Chris Nichols. Chris is not here today

to talk about governmental affairs,

however,

he is here in his capacity

Charles Beckton Teaching Award.

Chris won the award last

year in recognition of his

longtime contributions to

NCAJ's continuing legal education

programs and his leadership in the North

Carolina Mock Trial Program.

As it is February,

we are in the thick of both CLE

and mock trial season. So Chris,

we really appreciate you taking the

time to be here. Welcome to the program.

Thanks a.

Lot, Amber.

And you can check out all the CLEs NCAJ

has on tap to help you meet your CLU

requirements this month

at ncaja.com/events.

Chris is going to fill us in on

those in just a little while,

but first we're going to welcome real

live mock trial participant, Sam Circosta,

to give us an update on how things

are going out there in the mock trial

courtrooms. Sam, welcome to the podcast.

Hey, thank you so much for having me.

So Sam, tell us a little

bit about yourself.

What grade are you in and how long have

you been participating in mock trial?

So yeah, hi, I'm Sam. I'm a current

senior at Broughton High School,

and this is my fourth year

actually competing with mock trial.

I started off my freshman year

and I've stuck around ever since,

and it's a little sad to see

it go. Sam's my team captain.

Oh, okay.

What made you walk through the door of

the first mock trial meeting and sign up?

The funny story is I actually had a trip

for my uncle's wedding the day of my

first ever mock trial meeting. And so

originally it wasn't supposed to happen,

but a couple of friends informed me that

the people who were presenting the next

mock trial meeting were

the former state champions.

And when I heard state

champions, I was like, "Oh,

sign me up." That's when I decided to

stop by and I have stuck with it ever

since.

Cool. Awesome.

And so you guys just coming off a

big competition this last weekend,

this first weekend in February,

what was that and how did it go?

So yeah, we just finished up the

first competition of the whole ladder

systems and championships

of the mock trial universe.

This was our regional competition and

we competed at the Raleigh District

Courthouse, which was really great.

While we didn't make it

to the regional finals,

and that means we can't

advance to the state finals,

we did a really awesome job. Overall,

just an amazing performance from both

of Broughton's teams and just everybody

involved. And it was just a fun time.

Your mock trial days have

now come to an end then?

Yeah, it hasn't really

hit me yet. It appears so.

It was kind of tough really walking out

of that last courtroom and just being

like, "Man, this could be the end.".

Oh, wow. Looking back, I guess,

yeah, you've got a lot to process.

What was your favorite part about being

on the mock trial and taking all these

instructions from Chris

Nichols over the years?

Yeah. So I mean, for context,

I compete in a lot of competitive

based high school extracurriculars.

So not only do I do a mock trial,

but I'm also part of our speech and

debate team and I'm a part of our school's

DECA chapter,

which does CTE related competition

events in kind of a similar

fashion to mock trial.

What stuck out to me and what's been my

favorite part about doing mock trial is

it's the most team-like event

that you can do without having to

go work out and get on a field

or do anything like that.

For a lot of the stuff I do, it's fun,

but it's very individual focused.

Whereas with a mock trial team,

it's critical that you work with different

viewpoints and who ultimately want to

accomplish the same goal.

It's also really helpful that North

Carolina puts so much effort into just

making sure the competition runs smoothly,

that there's clear rules and clear

expectations of what you need to do and

really help easy and helpful. They've

established kind of certain guidelines

that help bring in new people very easily.

And overall, it's just really nice,

fun, easy program to

just get involved with.

That's awesome. That's awesome.

That's great. Yeah. It's so huge now.

There's so many kids involved and it's

like such a labor of love for all the

volunteers that dedicate so much time

to it. They get as much out of it,

I think, as the kids do. I would

guess because they keep coming back.

Oh, for sure, for sure. Enjoying it.

Year over year. What are you doing now?

You're a few months from graduation.

What are your plans?

Yeah. I mean, I try not to

think about it too much,

but I've heard back from some of my

colleges and it looks like we studying

economics at the University of

Michigan. I'm very excited about that.

Congratulations.

Yeah, thank you. But as it

goes for the rest of my career,

I'm still trying to see

how everything falls out.

I'm going to try to draw on

some of my past experiences,

especially those mock trial ones and just

kind of map out what I'm doing. Well,

good luck. Good.

Luck.

Thank you so much.

And the great thing about mock trial is

we're not necessarily training lawyers.

We're just training leaders. That's what

Sam has been for the last four years.

He's kind of held it all together

when you've got two teams, 16 people,

everybody's got a

hundred extracurriculars.

Sam did a really great job of

keeping us all on track and getting

practiced and things written up. And we

had a tough draw in our second round.

We went against the team that last

year was 11th in the nation from North

Carolina. They're really amazing,

but it's an elimination round.

So only one team's going forward

and we got the very hard one.

We'd had them the year before

in the regional round too.

So it was like our

national championship on.

Saturday. Only one team can win.

So I'm glad that you were in there for

four years though.That's a real testament

to the experience that students are having

as well if you kept coming back when

you had the opportunity to

participate in so many other things.

So we're glad that you did.

Oh, it's amazing.

Best of luck to you, Sam.

Thanks so much for being in mock

trial and for being on the podcast.

Thank you so much for having me.

Thanks for coming, Sam. I'll see

you Thursday for our debriefing.

That's right. All right.

Bye guys. Thank you.

So pretty tough break there going

up against the 11th in the nation

team again.

Yeah. They're really good. I mean,

and it's fun to go against them.

It's like a lot of things when

your competition's really good.

It brings out the best in you.

And I think it did for our kids,

but still a tough draw.

So how long have you been doing

this your whole legal career, right?

More than my legal career.

I actually started coaching when I was a

second year law student at Wake Forest.

I didn't really know what NCAJ was. I

just knew that I wanted to coach a team.

It seemed like fun.

I did it in high school for one

year and I thought it'd be neat

to continue. And here

I am, 32 years later.

Wow. And you were able to coach your

daughter when she was at Broadon, right?

I was, yeah. She graduated from high

I actually coached her middle school.

There was another program that did middle

school mock trial and then followed

her to Broughton and Broughton had had

a team and they'd sort of stopped doing

it. So we revived it and

that team is still going now.

So I guess it's the 10 year

anniversary of, for me,

of starting that up this last competition.

I can't keep track of how many teams

there are now across the state.

Do you know off the top of your head?

So we had, I think it was 120

teams competing this year.

There were actually some teams that were

not able to compete because we didn't

have enough slots.

The way it works is all of the teams

compete on the same Saturday for regionals

across the state. So this

Saturday was two in Raleigh.

We had one in Greenville

just spread across the state.

You could probably smell the tension.

It's a really nerve racking thing.

So there was the Duke Carolina

game and that was kind of tense,

but really there- It.

Was really key actually.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was.

Cool. So what about this program that

keeps you coming back for 30 plus years?

Well, you just saw it. It's like

kids like Sam. Their enthusiasm,

their ability,

watching them grow to see a nervous

freshman come on and leave a

confident senior, it's

always surprising. I mean,

I think any trial lawyer

who's tried a case knows that

trial is terrifying and

exciting all at the same time,

and mock trial is exactly the same

way. So it's a lot of work. And also,

I'd be remiss if I didn't say I don't

do it alone. I have two co-coaches,

Tanya Malik and Dale Stevenson.

They're both attorneys. And so

all three of us work together. And I

have a high school teacher at Broughton,

Laura Leinberger,

who also makes sure that we're following

all the school rules and things like

that. It's a labor of love for a lot of

people, and that's true for every team.

There's no team that does it with just

one coach. It takes a couple people to

get it done.

NCAJ has been intimately

involved in this for years,

and it's exciting.

I get to go sometimes to the state

finals and take pictures of the teams.

It's really great to just see the kids

all dressed up like little junior lawyers

in their suits and come out of

their rounds and line up for photos.

And you can just ... They really do

seem like they're learning so much.

And particularly, I appreciate

what he said about teamwork.

They're not a whole lot of places

where kids learn that kind of teamwork

outside of the athletic field. I

mean, I think that's really special.

Most of the intellectual sports

are sort of individual to a large

degree. And when they're

doing these trials,

you've got three lawyers

and three witnesses and the

lawyers are passing notes

back and forth to each other. And if they

get an objection from the other side,

they might be handing a piece of paper

to their co-teammate to help them argue

that objection. It's really fun to see.

And particularly when they start

off the year going, "Hearsay what?

" And then at the end,

just this last weekend,

one of my kids who was a brand

new mock trial or first time,

there was an objection to

hearsay. And the judge said,

"What's your response to that?

" And he was like, "Well,

hearsay is an out of court statement

offer for the truth of the matter

asserted." It was just

amazing to see that change.

Oh, that's awesome. Yeah.

NCAJ has been doing that for

as long as it's been around,

so I guess for three decades and continues

to support it financially as well as

with so many members who do this as their

volunteer work. So it's great to see.

We've got a lot of volunteers, but

it's been great to see it expand too.

The state bar has been a great supporter.

Chief Justice Newby is a big supporter.

It's a heavy lift for everybody.

And so I would encourage people who

support mock trial with their time,

their efforts,

and also their money to keep doing

it because it is a great program.

And the civic education of it is amazing

because one year it's a criminal case,

one year it's a civil case.

This year's case had to do with

a doctor who may or may not have

inappropriately prescribed opioids to

someone who may or may not have needed

them, resulting in their

death. And so it's topical.

It gets the kids talking about things

and there's probably never been a time

where it's more important to talk about

what the Constitution means and what it

means to be considered innocent until

proven guilty and things like that. We're

practicing it, but we're

playing it out in real time.

Yeah. Any way you can

make issues like that,

relevant high school students make

it seem real. That's really key.

Once you do it for a little

while and start talking to them,

then they'll start arguing

with each other about it,

about the rules of evidence and about

the principles behind the rules of

evidence.

And that's when you know

you've accomplished the goal

because it's become part

of them.

Right. And they're doing it like live

and in person with each other and not via

Instagram or on social media

where you can- Exactly.

Social media free zone for

that moment. That's awesome.

I'm sorry that your

team is not proceeding,

but I guess that does give you a little

bit of extra time because you've got a

couple of other things coming up on your

schedule in February education-wise for

NCAJ.

January, February are busy months.

So on Friday, February

13th, this coming Friday,

and the podcast will probably be

out after this CLE takes place,

you will have a full house.

This thing is sold out,

the UIM Unpacked CLE,

sold out in person and going to be

very well attended virtually as well.

And then anyone who is interested

can look for it in the NCAJ on

demand catalog, but not until March.

So what is it that you will be

talking about as part of this program

on Friday?

Well, even though you said I

wouldn't have my legislative hat on,

I will sort of have my legislative hat

on for that because I'm talking about the

new laws as well as sort of the

overlap on raising the minimum

limits, the legislative history

of how we got those rules,

and then how they fit into the statutes

now and how they can move forward.

We've got a lot of great speakers.

And one of the things I think that's

going to be really good about this seminar

is we're bringing in a

panel of arbitrators who are

frequent arbitrators, Walter

Burton, Kevin Elliot, Mike McDaniel,

and those are people that get

picked by defense lawyers.

They're people that serve as neutrals.

I've served on panels with

them and they're going to

be talking about their kind

of direct practical experience as an

arbitrator to help us understand how to

be more persuasive in arbitrations.

That alone is worth the price,

even on replay.

Even on replay. Well, on replay, yeah,

you can slow down and listen to it again.

Exactly.

So that's.

Good. And then February, of course,

is packed because it's when everybody

is remembered that they need CLE.

I think it's on February 20th,

we have the DWI program coming up.

You are not on the DWI bill this time,

but you have been on this

many times in the past.

This is Bill Power's DWI program.

What can CLE folks or CLE takers expect

from this program, you think?

This is always a great program.

And I participated a couple times that

Bill's asked me to sort of talk about the

civil side of DWI cases and how criminal

defense lawyers and personal injury

lawyers should really be cooperating.

But for this particular one,

we're still focusing on DWI,

but Bill's got Judge Chris Brooks

coming in on DMV revocations,

a Superior Court Judge Osman from

Mecklenburg County to talk about jury

selection, professionalism. Let's see.

John Hutchins and Michael

Neese are going to talk about,

do the case law update. Ron

Shook, who's one of our members,

is a lawyer who does a lot

of work with firearms rights,

is going to talk about impact

criminal convictions on that.

We've got a prosecutor coming in,

Chad Smith from Gastonia

to give their viewpoint.

That's always the best when you hear

your opponent's viewpoint, right?

Warren Savage is going to wrap it

up with the ethics of criminal law

practitioners from our longtime

supporters, lawyers mutual.

Everybody loves Warren. He's

like, "Fun way to end the day,

even if it is ethics.".

I so much love talking to Warren. I've

kind of adapted his hairstyle. I mean,

I kind of want to be so much like him.

Well, everybody wants to be

like Warren, so I guess-.

I'm trying to get Bill Powers

to shave his head for this,

but I just don't think

it's going to happen.

I should have told him that we

would put that on social media.

He might have done it.

He might have. It's not too late. We'll

have to have video effects come in.

And then we're going to round out

the month with the incredibly popular

disbursement CLE. And this one,

you were talking about Medicare

disbursements. Is that correct?

Medicaid.

Medicaid. Okay.

I'm the Medicaid guy on this one.

And Medicare will be Julie Bell,

who is our long-term, we can't say expert,

but highly experienced

person with Medicare.

I think the thing about the disbursement

seminar every year is that it's

important to go to because

the laws keep changing.

It's the one thing that everybody who

does personal injury has to deal with on

all their cases.

Someone always wants a piece of the

settlement and our job as lawyers is to

follow the law, but make sure that

we maximize our client's recovery.

And that's really what

this seminar is about,

is to make sure you know what to look for

on the lien issues and then figure out

the best way to lessen their

impact and make sure that,

particularly when you don't

have enough money to go around,

then everybody gets a fair share.

Some of the folks on that one, well,

Julie Bell and Lauren Newton are the

co-chairs. Joe Tunstall is going to talk

about verdicts, costs,

collection, minor settlements.

Paige Pahlke and Tacro LeCarpie,

who's also one of our sponsors from

Settlement Planning Services are going to

talk about that. And Amber,

minor settlements are always like a

landmine because you go wind up going in a

court and they're

different with every judge.

And it should be a simple thing

because everyone's in agreement,

we're going to get this case settled,

but it seems like every time I go to one,

there's something new that comes up that

has everybody scratching their heads.

So that should be great.

And Tacker is just a wealth

of information on how

these things work out.

I remember being here late on a

Friday afternoon when I just started,

I think I was fairly new to NCAJ

and Tacker was doing a Q&A to wrap

up the CLE.

And I figured we'd be out of here in 45

minutes and those folks did not want to

let him go. He could have stayed

here all night answering questions.

Tacker has definitely seen it all.

And he's been on both sides of the V,

he's an attorney, so he gets it

and is a wealth of experience,

which is really important. And then John

Moore's talking about work comp liens,

Jenny Maynard and Courtney Mann are going

to talk about medical provider liens.

Lauren Newton is taking the hard

one. She's going to talk about ERISA,

which is always fun. Julian-.

Aren't you usually the ERISA guy?

You got out of it this year, huh? No.

Frequently I talk about Medicaid.

I do get a lot of ERISA questions.

The thing about ERISA is that it's

such a gray area in a lot of ways,

and there are a lot of opinions

about how to handle it.

It's always an interesting and sometimes

controversial subject, so it'll be fun.

And Medicaid, the one I'm talking about,

because the Medicaid

program keeps changing.

We used to just have state run Medicaid,

and now we have these LME, MCO,

locally run kind of

proprietary Medicaid programs.

It's changed the way it works.

Julie, and then of course,

Mark Scruggs from Lawyers Mutual,

who is the opposite of the balding aspect.

Mark's got his beard and his

good hair, which I respect,

but it's not as cool as Warren's haircut.

And Mark is going to make sure

everybody gets a dose of ethics.

That's true. You would never mistake

Mark for Warren or Warren for Mark,

despite the fact that they're

hardly ever seen together.

That's true. I could think

about a beard and a hair thing.

We'll see if I can pass as Mark Scruggs.

They're probably not the same person.

All right. Well, thank you, Chris,

for all of that and for being

part of all of these programs and

for being on the podcast and

for everything that you do for

NCAJ,

whether in your role as educator

or government affairs or just as

supportive teammate, we

really appreciate you.

Well, thanks, Amber. I will definitely

say, I always say this about mock trial.

I get more out of it than I

put into it every single year.

There's always something inspiring. And

that's really true for NCAJ as well.

It's not always fun to teach the CLE.

I got a fact I need to

finish up a paper right now,

but once we get it all together,

it's always great just to come together

and all of us talk about what we do

and how hard it is

sometimes, but why we do it.

So it's going to be a great

January, February of CLE.

Yes, absolutely.

Listeners can find out more and register

for the CLEs Chris is participating

in this month or any of the

other great CLEs NCAJ is

offering at ncej.com/events.

And to find out more about Mock Trial

and how to volunteer with the North

Carolina Mock Trial Program,

go to ncmoktrial.org. Before we go,

I'd like to thank today's episode

sponsor, Advocate Capital.

Advocate is passionate about helping

plaintiff's attorneys get better results

for clients, mainly through their ADVO

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Thanks everyone for listening.

And if you're watching on YouTube, don't

forget to subscribe to this channel.

Thank you for joining us on

this episode of Voices of NCAJ.

For more information on the North Carolina

Advocates for Justice and how to join

or support NCAJ,

please visit our website at www.ncaj.com.