Zack Kaplan sums up his inspiration for civil rights law in one word: Leandro. It’s long-running litigation that seeks to enforce the constitutional right to a sound basic education in North Carolina. As a fifth-grade teacher, Zack read frequently about the case. “I didn't even know that there was a constitutional right to a free public education under our North Carolina constitution. And the more I dug into it, the more it really – that mission and that purpose – really resonated with me,” he tells host Amber Nimocks. Zack eventually left teaching to become a lawyer, today focusing on state and constitutional claims, prison and police misconduct, and appellate litigation at Ballew Puryear. He is also the program chair of "Overcoming Immunity: Pro Tips for Success in Civil Rights Litigation," a CLE scheduled for January 29 at NCAJ headquarters in Raleigh. He invites all lawyers to attend because he believes that everyone in NCAJ advocates for marginalized people going up against an institutional power. “We're hoping that, in a small way, this will be useful in those types of claims.” Register here.

🎙️ Featured Guest 🎙️

Name: Zack Kaplan

Connect: LinkedIn

💡 Episode Highlights 💡

[02:21] Teacher to Lawyer: Zack spent three years as a fifth-grade teacher in East Durham before attending law school, an experience he describes as potentially his "best and most challenging job" of his career.

[03:16] Civil Rights Foundation: As an undergrad at UNC Chapel Hill, Zack served as community organizer in historically Black communities, where he came to understand public education as a bedrock to building a multiracial democracy.

[10:21] Standing Up for the Little Guy: Zack believes that he and everybody at NCAJ share a fundamental commitment to stand up for the “little guy.”

[18:24] Law School Outreach Committee: As co-chair of NCAJ's Law School Outreach Committee, Zack is motivated to show students a variety of career paths.

[23:02] “Struck by Lightning”: Zack describes being in the “right place, right time” to briefly clerk for Judge James Wynn, a relationship that led to connecting with other critical mentors.

[26:07] NCAJ NEXT: “It was really impactful for me on several levels,” Zack says of the NCAJ NEXT fellowship program.

[30:54] Civil Rights CLE: The January 29 CLE is designed to benefit all attorneys, even those who aren’t civil rights practitioners, because the work involves helping any marginalized person go up against larger institutional power.

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Voices of NCAJ features members of the North Carolina Advocates for Justice talking about what it means to be a trial lawyer, what it takes to be great at the practice of law and how being a part of NCAJ enriches their lives and their careers.

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Welcome to Voices of NCAJ.

We're talking to members of the North

Carolina Advocates for Justice about what

it means to be a trial lawyer, what it

takes to be great at the practice of law,

and how being a part of NCAJ

enriches their lives and careers.

Produced and powered by LawPods.

Welcome everyone to Voices of NCAJ,

the podcast for the North Carolina

Advocates for Justice. I am Amber Nimocks,

your host and director of

external affairs for NCAJ.

Before we get started,

I'd like to thank our circle of leadership

members for supporting NCAJ's mission

and this podcast. If

you're watching on YouTube,

you can see a list of Circle of Leadership

firms at the end of the podcast.

To find out how your firm can join

the circle, go to ncaj.com/circle.

My guest today is Zack Kaplan.

He's an associate attorney at the

Raleigh Firm of Ballew Puryear,

where his practice focuses on state

and federal constitutional claims,

police and prison misconduct,

and appellate litigation.

He is also co-chair of NCAJ's

Law School Outreach Committee and

program co-chair of the

CLE, Overcoming Immunity:

Pro Tips for Success in

Civil Rights Litigation.

That program is coming up on

January 29 at NCAJ headquarters in

Raleigh.

And if you want to attend,

you can register for it or any of the

other terrific CLEs we have coming up in

January and February at ncaj.com/events.

Zack, welcome to the podcast.

Thank you very much. Amber, happy New

Year. And I'm a longtime listener,

first time caller, as they say,

so I'm excited to chat a bit and to talk

specifically about our upcoming CLE.

Great. Well, I'm so glad to know you

listened to the podcast. That's awesome.

So before we get into the CLE,

I'd love to know a little bit about you.

I know that you're one

of our NEXT fellows,

so somewhat familiar

with you and your bio.

And I know that lawyer

was not your first career.

You spent some time in the classroom

before you headed to law school.

What influenced your decision

to become a teacher first?

Yeah, that's right.

I was a fifth grade teacher at a public

school in East Durham for three years in

between college and when I went to

law school and then became a lawyer.

And I loved it. In a

lot of ways, I miss it.

And I think that it will

end up being, in some ways,

my best and most challenging

job of my career I

anticipate. But yeah, in

terms of how I got into it,

it was really while I was in college,

I went to UNC Chapel Hill

and my scholarship program

required all of the students

to do between 10 and 15

hours a week of work at a

local community partner.

And so I served for all four of

my years as a sort of community

organizer in two different historically

black communities in Chapel Hill in the

north side in Rogers Road,

the neighborhoods are called. And part

of my work there was being a tutor for

elementary school students

and middle school students.

And over the course of my years there,

I kind of had a practical

insight and then a more

theoretical insight.

The practical insight was that I just

loved working with young people and

engaging with students.

And I found that to be a really

challenging, like I said,

but enjoyable and meaningful way

to spend my time and my energy.

And so I knew that I was drawn

to the classroom for that reason.

But then sort of on a

more theoretical level,

I really came to

understand public education

as a bedrock,

this kind of foundational principle

for building a multiracial democracy.

And I knew that I wanted to

do work that had that sort of

civil rights bend.

And so I had in the back of my

mind that one day I might more

look into the policy

world or the law world,

but at least at the

beginning of my career,

I knew that I didn't want to get

into policy or get into law or

governance or anything like that without

having first had some significant

classroom experience and kind

of that boots on the ground,

ground level experience. Like I said,

I really enjoyed my time as a teacher.

I miss it today. Working

with adults is great,

but it's in a lot of ways less exciting

and less dynamic than working with 10

year olds every day.

And I hope sometime a little bit further

down the road in my career to get back

into the teaching world

one way or another.

That's such a great age, that

late elementary school age,

you can really see their

brains start to sort of pop.

That's right. And the school that I

taught at was actually K through eight.

And so we were really fifth grade

with really this transition year where

you were on the older side of elementary

school and on the younger side of

middle school.

And we definitely saw a lot of

transition in that fifth grade year.

And actually, I live in Durham still,

and I've lived there for a

little over 10 years now.

And so I still run into former students

of mine all the time. They are now,

they have graduated from high school

and most of them are college age.

So if they still live or work

around town, every once in a while,

I'll hear a Mr. Kaplan and there's only

a select group of people that call me

Mr. Kaplan. So I know that it must be one.

Of them. Oh, that's great. That's great.

So you knew you wanted to

do something policy related,

but was there a certain circumstance

or a certain event that moved you

towards the legal profession?

As with any big kind of

life or career transition,

there's a lot of kind of factors

that went into it and the

timing and everything. But honestly,

I would say if I had to

give a one word answer,

it would be Leandro,

which is the major education

litigation in North Carolina that's

been going on for well over 30 years

now, or almost 30 years now, I suppose,

and is a long running

lawsuit where a group of

marginalized students and families

or students and families from

marginalized school districts and

counties are seeking to enforce their

constitutional right to a sound basic

education against the state under the

provision involving education

in our Carolina Constitution.

And I would say it was about my

second year in the classroom when I

kind of had my feet on the ground enough

and knew my bearings enough to start

learning more about the education

law and policy world. And Leandro was

something that kept on coming

up. I would read articles,

I would see people speaking about it,

I would see in the news occasionally if

there was something going on with the

litigation.

And I was just exceptionally

curious about what this

was.

And I didn't even know that there was

a constitutional right to a free public

education under our North

Carolina constitution.

And the more I dug into

it, the more it really,

that mission and that purpose

really resonated with me.

And I started talking to some folks

who were either involved in advocacy or

involved in the litigation itself, and

of course, many of them were lawyers.

And so I began to see a

clearer pathway towards,

okay,

maybe this is a different angle at

which I can kind of approach this same

civil rights issue.

And so how you began to be drawn

towards civil rights as a focus

for your practice?

Yeah, that was definitely one of

the elements. It's interesting.

And we just finished up with the holiday

season and now moving into the new

year.

So it's a perfect time to kind

of reflect on kind of the path

behind and the path ahead. And

like so many people, I really,

when I look back at my career

path in some ways, my life,

there's this mysterious alchemy

to it in a lot of ways where

on the one hand you can see

certain elements very clearly that

one led to two, led to three, and

now I'm here. But on the other hand,

there's also some instances of

right time and right place and

kind of a sense of the

pieces falling into place.

And so when I think about my

trajectory becoming a civil

rights lawyer, it's a little bit of that.

There are definitely some elements

that stand out in my experience in the

classroom and my experience as a community

organizer before the classroom is

definitely one of them.

I also think that from

a very early age,

there were a couple of things that

kind of pointed me in that direction.

One is faith.

I am Jewish and one of

the kind of key pillars or

principles in Judaism,

it's called Tikkun Olam,

and it means repairing the world.

And it kind of, to me at least,

it means that everybody

has an obligation to do

what they can to improve their community.

It's not just about volunteering,

picking up trash on the side

of the road once a year,

although that can be

one way of contributing.

It's about really finding

what your lane is,

that kind of intersection of your passion

and your skills and seeing what you

can do to contribute in your community.

And so that was always a part of

my very much encouraged part of my

upbringing, trying to find that angle.

And another thing that I think

maybe everybody in NCAJ

will have in common is

I just have a sort of

intrinsic commitment to

standing up for the little guy.

I just have always had a sense of

injustice and things that appear fair or

unfair. I'm also a middle child,

so that might play into it as well.

But like I said, I think in some

ways everybody in NCAJ is like that.

I don't know if I've met anybody in our

organization who doesn't feel some type

of way about somebody who

for one reason or another is

marginalized,

going up against some

big institutional power.

And so in that way, I

think really everybody,

obviously the folks in the

civil rights section like me,

we have particular types of constitutional

rights that we're often litigating in

Section 1983 and all

that. But more broadly,

I really think that everybody in NCAJ is

a civil rights lawyer. And I mentioned

that I listened to the podcast.

I recently listened, for example,

to your episode with Karma Henson,

and I would challenge anybody

to listen to Karma talk

about her work in nursing home

litigation and say that she is

not a civil rights lawyer or a

civil rights advocate. I mean,

that work is not Section

but that to me, writ large, that's what

civil rights litigation is all about.

And so there's been

elements of all of that,

including my time as a teacher that

have kind of brought me to where I am.

Yeah. That is interesting to hear you

say because when I try to tell people,

we were talking before we

got onto the recording about

trying to explain to my son what I do,

it's not until you become sort

of older and begin to understand

the civil justice system as you become

more sophisticated in your understanding

that you do realize that fighting on

behalf of the individual against the

system, whether or not it is

in a traditionally understood civil

rights way or just in human rights

way, just for justice for the

individual against who has been wronged,

who has had their rights violated,

that is the bedrock of what we do.

That's pretty much we have just come

through the holidays and you go to parties

and be, "What do you do?

" So I'm the communications director for

this group of people and this group of

people does this. And when you put

it that way, people go, "Huh, okay.

All right.".

Yeah. And I think that, like I said,

writ large,

it's about standing up

for and advocating for the

little person, the David

versus the Goliath, right?

The marginalized person or community

against this system of power,

whether it's the state, an insurance

company, a police force, a jail,

an employer, the government.

And something that I have found,

you mentioned our work with the

law school outreach committee,

something that I found through

connecting with law students,

and that is true of my own experience,

is that there's such a pull now

more than ever in law schools,

there's such a pull towards big law,

towards large corporate

insurance defense law firms that

anybody who finds their

way into this profession,

it's highly unlikely that they just

kind of stumbled their way into it.

So it tends to really draw people who,

like Karma or like Sam, who I

know you had on recently, I mean,

like so many others, and

my colleagues at NCAJ NEXT,

it tends to draw in people

who really have some type of

chip on their shoulder about advocating

for folks who have been marginalized and

kind of standing up to some

of that institutional power.

You know,

that's one of our challenges as an

organization at the law school level

is trying to make sure that

we educate and spread the

word about the fact because

you're looking law school and

you've just incurred a great deal of debt.

And so often the path is that

you feel like you have to go

work for insurance or as an

insurance defense litigator in

order to do that. And you don't even ...

Presenting law students with

the option of going into

plaintiff's work first and

making sure they know that that's

even an option is really important.

That's right.

Because big law is out there.

It's not only out there,

it is increasingly

recruiting and signing up

students earlier and earlier and earlier

in your law school career, including,

by the way, like now,

like January of your 1L year,

your first year of law school.

I was in touch in the last couple of

weeks with law students at a couple of

different North Carolina law schools

who are in the middle of interviews,

not only for positions this coming summer,

but for the summer of 2027, right?

The summer in between their second

and third year of law school,

that will then turn

into return job offers.

And then they're set for when they

And that once you ... Of course,

it's always possible to make a pivot if

you start to go down that path and then

change your mind.

But it is much harder to do that

as opposed to deciding now when

you're at this crucial fork in the road.

As you can tell,

this is kind of a pedestal

that I like to stand on,

but I really do think that it's

important to kind of spread the word

among law students at our

North Carolina law schools,

that this is a viable career path.

You can do work that aligns with your

values and you can make enough money

to pay your bills because often it is

presented as a total dichotomy where

you can either go into big law and of

course you don't have to worry as much on

the finance side. You'll be able to

pay your law school loans and all that,

and you can do work that maybe you

have some interest in one type of

that law or another,

but generally you're probably less

likely to be super passionate about that,

or you can go into maybe

a government position or a

nonprofit position or become a public

defender or an assistant district attorney

or something and do more work

that you're passionate about,

but at the expense of paying the bills.

And for people

who are not independently wealthy,

they don't have maybe other lawyers

in their family and they aren't

super aware of the different

career paths that are out there,

that's a really daunting decision

to have to make so early on.

And so I do think that now more than

ever it is important for folks in

NCAJ in formal ways, but also in informal

ways to make some of those mentor,

mentee connections with law

school students and kind

of show them that there's

this middle path out there.

Yeah. Yeah. Well,

we're definitely thankful

for all of the work that

you've been doing on that front as

co-chair of the Law School Outreach

Committee. And we've boosted

our efforts there a lot,

but I think that we've got to

continue to be out there and just be

present. There's so many

people who don't even know ...

Even as far into your second

or third year in law school,

they don't even have a ...

Someplace like Campbell would be an

exception where they have a very active

trial lawyer or their

advocacy program is so huge.

But there are a lot of schools where

understanding really what a plaintiff's

attorney is is not ... We're not

competing as well as we should be.

No. And in fact,

that was my experience and that was the

exact reason why I was interested in

joining the law school outreach

committee in the first place.

I guess a year and a half ago now when

it was our first time doing that with the

new lawyers division,

this is only our second school year

with the law school outreach committee.

So I went to Duke for law

school, stayed around in Durham,

although I will note for the record that

I am a Tarheel. I had a great, really,

really great experience at Duke Law,

but that experience had

absolutely or basically no

knowledge or understanding or instruction

about the fact that this career path

was out there,

that you could go to a smaller plaintiff's

civil rights oriented law firm.

And I mentioned that in touch

with a lot of law students,

I am proud to say that Duke Law,

actually I was just in touch over the

holidays with a student who is starting up

a plaintiff's law association at Duke.

And so to your point,

those sorts of organizations have been

established for many years at places like

Campbell. I think they're

similar at UNC Law,

Elon and NC Central, for example, a civil

rights society at Central that's very,

very active.

But even in some of the schools that

are North Carolina law schools that are

less well known for placing folks in

that career path are starting to get the

word out a little bit. So

I'm excited about that.

Yeah. Well, we will keep at it with

you for ... And hopefully we can ...

I read somewhere that law school

applications are through the roof this

year. There's like a bumper crop,

so there's going to be more

and more ... I don't know.

I think that was a nationwide

statistic that I read,

but I'm sure that it will be

spread throughout the country.

And so there's even more folks

we can target for getting

into the profession.

That's right. We will

never, as smaller firms,

and even as an NCAJ organization

or kind of coalition,

we will never have the

exact same approach or exact

same sort of infrastructure that some

of the big law firms have in their on

campus interviews and

recruitment and stuff like that.

But I Think that actually

makes the mentorship

piece even more important,

that we don't have as much of that

infrastructure to rely on. And again,

going back to my experience,

I really only became aware

that this career path

was out there and was viable and was

something that would really align with my

values and the work that I want to be

doing because I had the great privilege

and fortune of clerking for some judges

who were former plaintiff's lawyers,

and they were the ones who kind

of steered me in that direction.

And so it was a direct result of that

mentorship and that kind of guidance that

I didn't get in law school,

but that hopefully more and more

people will be getting in law school.

That's right, because you were

clerked for Justice Robin Hudson,

who was a longtime member of NCHA.

That's right. Before it was

NCHA even. Yep, that's right.

Yes, yes. She was a longtime member

of the Academy of Trial Lawyers.

I'm sure that she pointed

you in our direction.

She did. Yeah, she absolutely did.

She was largely a workers' comp attorney

before she was on the bench,

when she was in private practice.

And then of course,

as any of our workers' comp

practitioners and NCHA know,

use that experience once

she was on the bench,

she was always the one that when she was

on the court of appeals that the panel

turned to and when she was on the Supreme

Court that the rest of the justices

turned to for a lot of not

just workers' comp issues,

but plaintiff's issues generally.

You will very often find her name at

the top of a lot of those opinions,

medical malpractice opinions,

workers' comp opinions,

and really even civil rights opinions

writ broadly. I mean, gerrymandering,

the most recently Andrew opinion Justice

Hudson authored. And so selfishly,

she had a huge impact on my career,

but more importantly than that,

she's also had a really big impact

on the plaintiff's bar and on

the jurisprudence and civil

rights in North Carolina.

Yeah.

And then you also clerked for

Judge James Wynn on the US Court of

Appeals for the Fourth Circuit.

That's right. That was another

... Both of those opportunities,

kind of going back to the serendipity

point earlier where I kind of

felt like I was struck by

lightning where right place,

right time with Judge Wynn in particular,

I clerked for him briefly while

one of his other clerks was out

on parental leave and he

knew Justice Hudson and

this was relatively shortly after

my time with Justice Hudson.

And so that relationship kind of made

the connection from my time with Judge

Wynn and very, very

similarly to Justice Hudson.

He was a plaintiff's lawyer

out in Eastern North Carolina.

He had a law firm with Congressman

Butterfield and a few other folks out

there,

and they did a lot of

whatever came in the door,

whether it was workers' comp, whether

it was kind of more commercial stuff,

lots of smaller claims and

working their way up. And then

when he was on the bench, and he's of

course still on the federal bench now,

has had a huge impact when he was in the

North Carolina appellate courts and on

the Fourth Circuit in state and

then federal civil rights issues.

So I have been very,

very fortunate over the last several

years to have some really incredible

mentors who not only told me

about, "Hey, this is what NCAJ is,

this is what being a

plaintiff's lawyer is,

is what being a civil rights lawyer is,

" but also had more personalized

encouragement where they

got to know me enough to say,

"I really think that you should consider

this and let me connect you with a few

folks you might want to talk to about it.

" So I just think that I had my

own examples in my own life and

career of how valuable that mentorship is.

And so that's one of the reasons why

I love being able to connect law

students with people in NCAJ or judges or

clerks or other folks who can kind of

provide some of that guidance for them.

And now you're with a firm which

has a couple of really great

NCAJ members at the top as well.

That's right. Yeah.

Matt Ballou and PJ Perier are our founding

partners here at the firm and they

are both NCAJ members.

Matt has been an NCAJ member

and leader for at least 15

years now. And I have two

co-associates now, Trent Turk,

who was in the class of 2025

cohort of NCAJ NEXT and Catherine

Copeland who recently wrapped

up her clerkship with Justice Riggs,

who if we do have a

future NCAJ new cohort,

we will definitely be

encouraging her to join as well.

So hopefully we'll do a sweep

with the associates there.

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. For 2026,

we're going to do the NEXT Steps program,

which will be sort of a recap for all

of the fellows who've come through the

past few years. But for 2027,

I'm sure we'll be doing it again because

it's been such a tremendous success for

us. We've had such great folks come

through and so many of you have

stepped into tremendous leadership

roles in the organization that we've

just, it's been NEXT has

been just a great program.

I know for me, it was really

impactful on several levels.

Obviously connecting with my friends

and colleagues who are in our cohort and

kind of having that

group of people who now,

even though it's been two years since

we were in the program together,

we can still be in touch and still

bounce ideas off of each other. Plus the

mentorship piece with folks

in NCAJ who have been in NCAJ

for a while.

David Henson was my NCHA NEXT

mentor and I owe a whole lot to him

in terms of being able to navigate this

early stage of my career in a lot of

ways.

And then just getting to know the

history of the organization and the

mission of the organization,

it's something that it sounds

really basic when you say it,

but it makes it so that it's not just

a listserv and it's not just convention

once a year.

I felt very fortunate to be able to begin

my career in private practice with an

experience like that.

Wow, that's great. That is great.

Everything that NCAJ has done

for NEXT has like yielded

like twice as many blessings back.

So it's been a great program for us,

including the fact that you're

co-chairing this upcoming CLE,

which has an incredible lineup.

Yeah. We are really excited about it

and thank you for highlighting it.

And we hope,

obviously we hope that a lot of members

of the civil rights section will attend,

but it's also designed such that

you don't have to be a civil rights

practitioner in order

to get a lot out of it.

So we heard a lot from

our civil rights section

members at convention last year

that they were interested in

particular in having,

or in hearing from current judges

and current appellate judges if

possible, because so much of civil

rights litigation ends up up on appeal.

And then also this one was a

little bit of a curveball for me,

but I think it makes good sense.

There was a big express interest

from the section members to

hear from somebody who's traditionally

opposing counsel on the other side of the

V and who has experienced defending

civil rights claims on behalf

of either municipalities or

insurance companies or kind of our

classic civil rights litigation

defendants. And so we

were able to kind of check

both of those boxes or fulfill both of

those requests with our panelists and

speakers at the event.

We're going to have Justice Trey Allen

from the North Carolina Supreme Court

talk about state law immunities.

So things like sovereign

official, excuse me,

sovereign immunity or

public official immunity.

And he was a long time and

is a longtime expert in that

field from back when he worked

at the UNC School of Government,

wrote a really insightful treatise or kind

of pamphlet about state level immunities

that civil rights claims often come

up against. And then our second

program will be from David Coats,

who if NCAJ folks recognize that name,

it will either be from being on the

other side of the V as defense counsel,

or he also does a lot of

great mediation work as well.

So we were excited to hear his

perspective. He'll be speaking about

navigating insurance policies,

whether it's a municipality

or a police department,

kind of some of the modern

twists or wrinkles that you

might find in these insurance policies

and how to navigate your way through them

or around them. And then

last but certainly not least,

Justice Anita Earls from the North

Carolina Supreme Court is going to be

speaking to us a little bit more broadly

about how civil rights litigation

Negators can use the North

Carolina constitution in

civil rights claims and

recent developments in North

Carolina constitutional

law as it relates to certain civil

rights claims. Things like, well,

Leandro obviously is a state civil

rights state constitutional claim,

but also especially after the pandemic,

there was a lot of litigation that

some of our section members were really

leading in a lot of ways behind

the fruits of the labor clause,

which is another kind of niche clause

of the North Carolina Constitution. Of

course, we have our own version of

equal protection and due process.

So Justice Earls will be speaking

about how you can consider those

claims and how those types of

claims have developed over time.

Yeah, that's going to be great. That

is going to be a terrific program.

And I could definitely see how it would

be something that have an appeal beyond

the civil rights section for sure.

Yeah. Thank you. Like I said,

like we talked about earlier,

there is an element in the

work that all of us do in NCAJ

of advocating for somebody who for one

reason or another has been put in kind

of this marginalized position going up

against this larger institutional power.

And the CLE that we'll have

later this month is designed to

help folks navigate some of

the complexities in that,

because there are always going to

be systemic barriers when you are

doing that type of work. And so

we're hoping that in a small way,

this will be useful in

those types of claims.

Yeah. Terrific. Terrific. Well, Zack,

thank you for your work on this and

for helping us spread the word to

potential plaintiff's lawyers in law

school and for everything you do for NCAJ.

No, thank you very much for having

me on and for highlighting our CLE

January 29th, and I hope a lot of your

listeners will be able to join us.

I do too. I do too. As Zack said,

that program is on January 29.

It is at NCAJ headquarters in

Raleigh, or you can attend virtually.

And there will be a social after

the CLE where you can chat with the

attendees and potentially

the presenters as well.

You can register for that or any of

the other terrific CLEs we have coming

up in January and February

at ncaja.com/events.

Before we go, I'd like to thank today's

episode sponsor, Advocate Capital.

Advocate is passionate about helping

plaintiff's attorneys get better results

for clients, mainly through their

AdvoTrack case expense funding service.

It allows firms to track case

expenses and recover borrowing costs,

which makes the net cost of

borrowing zero on cases they win.

Learn more at advocatecapital.com.

Thanks everyone for listening.

And if you're watching on YouTube, don't

forget to subscribe to this channel.

Thank you for joining us on

this episode of Voices of NCAJ.

For more information on the North Carolina

Advocates for Justice and how to join

or support NCAJ,

please visit our website at www.ncaj.com.