Martha Ramsay has been an NCAJ member for more than three decades and served in leadership roles – all while developing a thriving workers’ comp practice at two firms. Later this month, she’ll unite her law practice and her NCAJ commitment at the 31st Annual Workers' Comp Round Table CLE. In this episode, Martha sits down with host Amber Nimocks to look ahead at the CLE, where she’ll participate in a roundtable, and look back on her path to workers’ comp law and to the NCAJ.

The Workers' Comp Round Table CLE will be held at NCAJ headquarters in Raleigh on April 10. Members of the Workers' Comp Section can learn more and register here. Martha encourages attendees to “bring your questions, bring your problem cases.”

🎙️ Featured Guest 🎙️

Name: Martha Ramsay | LinkedIn

Connect: Ramsay Law Firm on LinkedIn | Facebook | X and Dewey, Ramsay & Hunt on LinkedIn | Facebook | X | Instagram

💡 Episode Highlights 💡

[02:09] NCAJ from Day One: Martha traces her NCAJ membership to her first job, working for a founding member who instilled in her that lawyers must learn from other lawyers — not just the letter of the law, but how to get things done in the courtroom and the legislature.

[09:29] Why Workers' Comp:After trying family law, business law, criminal law, and personal injury, Martha felt that she could truly change outcomes for people through workers' comp.

[14:52] High-Value CLE: What makes the 31st Annual Workers' Comp Round Table CLE uniquely valuable? As Martha explains, it is members only, focused on frank discussion of real cases and trends, and gives attendees access to experienced practitioners and younger lawyers with boots on the ground.

[18:07] Paying It Forward: Martha recalls the time when she was “just the little nobody” and stuck on a workers’ comp issue. She was encouraged to reach out to a well-known, respected lawyer who took the time to help her own. Today, she and everyone at NCAJ embrace that spirit of paying it forward.

[21:26] Don’t Go It Alone: “Why would you go it alone?” Martha asks. With NCAJ, you don’t have to. She promotes membership as a way for lawyers to get access to resources, including other lawyers dealing with the same problems as well as practical gems from CLEs.

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Voices of NCAJ features members of the North Carolina Advocates for Justice talking about what it means to be a trial lawyer, what it takes to be great at the practice of law and how being a part of NCAJ enriches their lives and their careers.

Members of NCAJ belong to a nonprofit, nonpartisan association of legal professionals dedicated to empowering a strong community of trial lawyers to protect people, prevent injustice and promote fairness. Membership affords many benefits and we’re proud to offer discounts and opportunities thanks to our tremendous community of sponsors and partners. Join today!

Welcome to Voices of NCAJ.

We're talking to members of the North

Carolina Advocates for Justice about what

it means to be a trial lawyer, what it

takes to be great at the practice of law,

and how being a part of NCAJ

enriches their lives and careers.

Produced and powered by LawPods.

Welcome everyone to Voices of NCAJ,

the podcast for the North Carolina

Advocates for Justice. I am Amber Nimocks,

your host and director of External

Affairs. Before we get started,

I'd like to thank our circle of leadership

gemstone level members for supporting

NCAJ's mission and this podcast.

If you're watching on YouTube,

you can see a list of circle of leadership

firms at the end of the podcast.

To find out how your firm can join

the circle, go to nCAJ.com/circle.

My guest today is Martha Ramsey.

She is the founder of Ramsey Law Firm

where she specializes in workers'

compensation and managing partner

of the personal injury firm, Dewey,

Ramsey & Hunt, PA in Charlotte.

She is a board certified specialist in

workers' compensation law and the author

of North Carolina

Workers' Compensation Law,

a practical guide to success at every

stage of a claim chapter on rehabilitation

professionals. Martha has been an NCAJ

member for 33 years and has served in a

variety of leadership roles and presented

at innumerable workers' comp CLEs.

Later this month,

she will participate in the 31st

annual workers' comp round table CLE.

As part of the panel, who are you

going to call? Doctors for every issue.

If you'd like to register for that

CLE, you can go to nCAJ.com/events.

It will be held at NCAJ

headquarters in Raleigh on April 10,

and it is open to members of NCAJ's

workers' comp section only. Martha,

welcome to the podcast.

Thank you very much, Amber. I appreciate

the opportunity to talk to you.

So you have been a member, I

went back and counted for you.

You've been a member of NCAJ

for more than three decades.

How did you first come to get

involved in the organization?

Oh, I've actually been an NCAJ member

ever since I was really a lawyer.

I started work for Alan Bailey's

law firm. Allen A or AA,

as those of us who work

for him used to know,

was a founding member of the NCAJ.

And I remember the trips he would

make driving from Charlotte to

Raleigh on a regular basis.

That telephone conference calls weren't

always done and they didn't have Zoom or

anything like that. So Alan put in

the miles to go to Raleigh for NCAJi.

And what I found that Alan instilled

in us was it was crucial for

lawyers to learn from other lawyers,

not just the letter of the law, but

how to actually get things done,

how to get things done in the courtroom,

how to get things done in the legislature.

And that was why he was

so devoted to NCAJA.

And he passed that along to many,

many, many of us across the state,

and I'm one of them.

Awesome. So yeah,

I noted on your member record

that I think you have been an

NCAJ member for about one month less

than you have been a practicing attorney.

So what was it like to go

to work for Alan Bailey?

That was your first job out of law school?

Yeah, yeah.

Alan knew tons of people across the

state and would always be able to

give me, if I didn't know

the answer to a question,

be able to give me a

resource. But I'll tell you,

on my first day as a new lawyer,

I walked in and no one else

really knew I was coming.

And Alan walked me down to an office and

there was a stack of paper files on it.

And Alan said, "Read through those and

tell me what you think. " Then I was off.

So that was my training at the law

firm to be able to be ready for being a

new lawyer.

Yeah. As I was saying

before we got on the call,

I started my professional career out of

undergrad as a journalist at the same

time that you were graduating from

law school. It was a different era.

That was very much like my first

day in my first job. They're like-.

Where it's just like,

good luck. Here it is.

Yep. There it is.

Your story's due at 3:15 because my

editor had a tea time that he intended to

keep every day at four.

And so the workplace looked a

little differently for that for our

generations when we started out.

For sure.

And this was one of the things kind of

Alan's sort of idea about NCAJ was really

reproduced in the firm was

obviously there was a law library.

Remember that back when we

had law libraries and you

walked into law libraries

and pulled books down,

there was the law library that you

could figure out the letter of law,

but we were a pretty big firm. We

actually had, I think, seven attorneys,

eight attorneys at one point. And so

each lawyer sort of had their specialty.

So I could go around to sort of any

of the lawyers and be like, "Hey,

you got a minute? Here's my question.

And as long as you were

prepared with enough facts,

they would give you a hand and give you

some instruction on what was going to go

on.

" So there wasn't a formal training

method or program that you went through,

but there were plenty of resources and

you just had to step up and start to use

them. I don't know if your journalism

was the same way where there were

resources for you.

Oh yeah. I started my

career in a bureau office,

so it was just a couple of us in there.

But when I moved to the main newsroom

that the Fayetteville Observer,

it was just,

you learned from just sitting because it

was a big open room just full of people

on the phone.

And there were some reporters there who

were just so good at interviewing and

you just listen to them on the

phone and you would be like, "Huh,

that's how it's done." Almost everybody

was willing to help you and give you

advice. And I think

that it's so important,

especially I read a lot about new grads

entering the workforce today and how

it's like pulling eye teeth for some of

them to get them into the office space.

And I'm like, that's invaluable.

If you're new in a field or even

new to a firm or to a company,

I don't know what I would do if I couldn't

have gone in there and just learned

and watched other people at work.

And absolutely, that's one of the things

the attorneys enjoy at our office.

I mean, we have some

accessibility to work remotely,

but the attorneys enjoy coming in because

sometimes you just have a chance to

walk down the hall and say, "I got

this problem. What do you think?

" And somebody can take four minutes

and just give you some feedback.

It's really very helpful.

So when was it that you decided that

you were going to become a lawyer?

Oh, I never had a grand

plan to be a lawyer.

I was never a person who was

like, "Oh, when I was six,

I was going to be a lawyer." I thought

I might've almost more likely been a

journalist maybe because I

think that was very interesting.

I was an econ major and who didn't want

to work in the bank and liked theater.

So I got into law school, went

to the University of Buffalo,

and I had a great experience doing MOOT

court. Shout out to my MOOT court folks,

Rob Sardinia, Mike Joint

for helping me along.

But we had a great opportunity

for Moot Court there.

And that was what I think really sort

of convinced me that this lawyer rang

stuff could be fun, be

something that is intriguing,

that is challenging, that is changing,

but also that you can influence.

I didn't ever feel that as an econ major

going into banks or bank regulations,

I would be able to influence anything

or change anything. And that's what's

really enjoyable about being in the law.

And how did you wind up in the workers'

comp as your focus, as your specialty?

I stumbled in it.

I don't know how many folks say I want

to be a work comp lawyer when they go to

law school either, maybe or some,

but I did a variety of work at Allen's

law firm. So I did some family law,

I did business law, I

did some criminal law.

Obviously we did a ton of

personal injury cases as well,

but workers' comp lets you really

change outcomes for people.

A lot of my clients are very

happy at the end of their case.

So I would have family law clients

who were just miserable because

something they loved was ending

or there was some kind of spite.

The corporate clients would be like,

"Whatever you did what I paid you to do,

okay." The criminal law, hardly any of

the criminal folks walk out being like,

"Yay,

that was a great experience me and

the criminal law." But the work comp

folks,

I could actually change things for

people that could see a difference and

they were usually happy at the end.

So I really enjoy that area of it.

Cool. And so as I said in the intro,

you've had a variety of leadership roles.

You were in NCHA and other organizations,

but you did a turn on the board

of governors. Is that right?

I haven't served on the board of

governors yet, and now you voted for.

So how did I find my way into leadership?

NCAJ just has this amazing group of

people who volunteer hours and hours of

their time. And I would go and kind

of see it, advantage of it. I mean,

I would see these people putting

in time for making great CLEs.

I would see people working

hard at the legislature.

I served on the education committee and

membership committee for a number of

years and knew that someday

it would be my turn.

I knew that all these other people had

done this work and they had been passing

the work down to sort of the next group

that would come along and take the heavy

workload. So Neil Kamock and

Frank Riccio called me and said,

"Would you be the chair,

get in line to be the chair for the work

comp section?" And I gave them probably

a million qualifiers about how I was

going to be limited in this and I wasn't

sure that I could do that and how

much would actually be expected of me

because I was just really concerned about

meeting the standards of all the other

lawyers that I'd seen. But you know

what? The group had me. I mean,

you just would not even believe the

work comp section folks. They're like,

"We got you, Martha." Kevin Bond

doing legislatives, Zach Derkery,

Stewart, Puicon, Bob Bollinger,

a lot of folks just picking me up.

Sheila Chavis, incredibly helpful,

picking me up and giving me

instructions and giving me guidance.

And you know what? It turned out,

Amber, it was a ton of fun. I mean,

it was cool. I got to see

the legislative stuff,

which you don't always

see as a section member.

I got to see the other lawyer stuff,

and I got to develop a good relationship

with the NCAJ staff who were just

delightful, patient, thank goodness,

and delightful to work with.

So I would encourage anyone who has

any interest in kind of returning back

to service,

giving back to all the lawyers who've

given to them who've gone ahead,

put some time in. It's not going to be

as bad as you think it's going to be,

and it's going to be a lot of fun.

So don't be afraid to step

into some leadership roles.

Awesome. All right.

We're going to definitely going to clip

that and use it for recruitment for

section leadership next year. Absolutely.

The workers' comp round table has

been up and running for almost

as long as you and I have been

professional working adults.

This humming addition is its

31st workers' comp round table.

I don't know too many other

programs that can claim that kind of

longevity.

Workplace towards in December is

the one is going to match that.

Yeah. So what is it that makes this

program and workplace towards ...

But I guess specifically this

one, since we're leading up to it,

what makes this one so valuable

to members of the section?

Yeah,

so there are two sort of completely

different ideas about these two CLLEs that

the work comp section

runs. And so the first,

this round table is really

important because it's members only.

It's an opportunity for us

to talk very frankly about

what we see going on in the

workers' compensation section.

So we can talk about

cases that are problems.

We can talk about how we're seeing

different medical providers respond to

things, kind of trends we're

seeing in our own practice.

We can bring specific issues. I mean,

it just gives you access to

an incredible brain trust of

attorneys. First of all,

experienced attorneys who've

been out there for a long time,

but also younger attorneys who are

just running with the cases and

having to really see what's actually

going out, boots on the ground.

So a chance to hear from

kind of experienced folks,

but also folks with boots on the ground

who are every day running through these

problems.

And how do you get feedback on that?

How do you understand what's going on

in a broader picture to help figure out

your problems with your

cases? It's really unusual.

Yeah. And this time you're going to ...

I don't know if this is always the format,

but there's going to be more breakouts

where you work in smaller groups

around different issues. Is that right?

So the round table traditionally has

always kept more space open for just

those general kind of unscripted

discussions between the attorneys.

So usually, and Jesse,

Shapiro and Mike Vertiks have done a great

job of putting something forward this

year to help for trial prep,

like more of a basic how to run a case.

So we're going to start with sort

of who do you call pre-lit issues

and how do we deal with

doctors and getting evidence?

And then there's a really great group

that's going to talk about getting ready

for a hearing and a group that's going

to talk about post-hearing issues.

And then there's breakout sessions

after those. So bring your questions,

bring your problem cases.

That's really what this is.

Let's do some more detailed,

hard work on these issues.

So very hands-on.

Very hands-on.

You're not going to get a smarter group

of attorneys to get feedback from on

your specific problems with

your cases. So come and join us.

It's always fun too.

They always make it fun.

Yeah. The workers' comp

section has such a sprita core.

You guys really hang very

tough and very tight.

It's always nice to be at your CLEs

or your section events and see that.

I don't know if there's something about

the practice or if it's just it's a

terrific group of lawyers or I don't

know what the magical ingredient is.

I don't know exactly.

I think we fight all the same battles

and so many people in this section had

attorneys give to them, and so they're

willing to give back. I mean, again,

I remember I was stuck on an

issue in a workers' comp case.

And in the way back day,

and Allen Bailey said,

"Call this guy." And it was Hank Patterson

doing legislative work and like a

well-known respected attorney.

And I'm just this little nobody.

And I called Hank because no one in my

firm could answer the question. I called,

Hank gave me 10 minutes and great

suggestions. And I'll never forget that,

that he was willing to take

that time to help me out.

And I've done that for lots of lawyers

who've called me and I'm willing to do

that. That's how we kind of keep

it going, how we pay it forward.

What has being an NCAJ member meant

to you personally and professionally?

It gave me an education I wouldn't

have gotten anywhere else.

How to run a law firm.

I know that's not exactly

on the NCHA agenda,

but we talk about it.

It gives you an opportunity to

meet people and talk about it.

I will say the marketing summit

that the NCAJ has put on has been

outstanding, has been outstanding.

The speakers that you guys get to come

in who can actually talk about the

mechanics of marketing and how to

track cases and how to keep your

business afloat, how to look at

your new term I learned, the KPIs,

the key proposals, indicators,

which I was never taught in law school

and didn't go to business school.

So right, Amber, like KPIs don't roll

off your tongue, I don't imagine.

No, no,

that's one of those acronyms that I

view with suspicion at first because

I remember when I heard the first

time I heard the term KPI, I was like,

"Is this going to be applied to me?

How am I supposed to fulfill this if I

don't understand what it is? " So yeah,

we have had really,

really great response from Strategy Summit

and that's definitely part of it is,

gosh, because the business of law,

like every other field is changing

so much and trying to keep

up with the pace of artificial

intelligence being part of the mix.

And just from a marketing standpoint

that it's just everything's changing,

the speed of the algorithms are changing

or it's just ... So that's great.

We were really gratified at how well

received a strategy summit has been.

Yeah. And so also, I mean,

why would you go it alone?

Why would you be like, "I don't need NCAJ.

I don't need to have access to the

smartest lawyers in the state who are also

running their own law firms and dealing

with my same problems." I'm just going

to do it on my own because

that's how I roll. I mean,

I don't know why you would eliminate

your resources in that way,

especially when it's so accessible with

the Listserv and with being able to

reach out to other attorneys how

much help you can get. I mean,

just things like dealing

with difficult clients,

things like securing evidence and

laying a foundation to get it admitted.

He's passed now, but Joe Roberts, one

of the attorneys in the state, his son,

Scott's a great attorney. I

was out of CLE and he was like,

"Here's how I work to get evidence

from my doctors. Here's how I do my

affidavit.

Here's how I approach their assistant

to see the best way to get it

signed. Here's how I presented

to the defense attorney.

Here's the foundation I laid to get

it admitted into evidence." I mean,

I was like, "Okay,

a whole bunch of notes." And some

practices you're like, "Yeah,

I don't need that.

I'll throw that away." But you can just

pick up these gems that are so helpful

to everyday things in your practice.

Right, right. Tricks of the trade that

somebody else has already figured out.

Yeah, that's invaluable. It really

is. I mean, any field, I think,

but certainly for this specific

practice area, definitely.

So you are a very busy woman.

You're running two law firms now?

I am, yeah. We run two law firms.

So Ramsey does the work comp

and the catastrophic PI,

and Doonie Ramsey Hunt does more

soft tissue chiropractic cases.

It's fun to run too.

And you are, as I mentioned,

involved in a number, not just NCAJ,

you're involved in a number of

organizations that serve workers' comp and

the practice that you do.

So how do you stay recharged

and stay up for the fight?

Yeah. So let me give a shout

out to my softball team,

Mojo's co-ed softball team

still playing after 30

something years together,

some of us have been.

That is amazing.

Yeah. We have our softball

night, which is always good.

So that certainly keeps me

going. The other thing, Amber,

is I've been real fortunate to be able

to represent professional athletes.

So I'm on the NFLPA, the

Professional Players Association,

that represents the players in the

collective bargaining agreement.

And I've been able to represent some

professional athletes in workers'

compensation cases. So some Carolina

Panthers, some Charlotte football clubs,

some hurricanes players, and honest

ton of minor league baseball, lacrosse.

And I don't think, I didn't

know this till recently.

We have professional rugby

here in North Carolina.

Oh yeah. I think I did read

that some. I was like, "What?

That's amazing." Wow.

We used to have professional

or semi-pro cricket as well.

My gosh, I did not.

Know that. In Carey, Morrisville,

I think in Morrisville,

there's a big Southeast

Asian population. And so

their franchise may not have been renewed,

but for a while there was

professional cricket as well.

So those cases can get

complex. Jurisdictional issues,

hired here, injured here, living here,

getting treatment all across the country,

having to figure out how your

knee injury client who is

injured with the Panthers,

now he's living in Texas.

Where in Sugar Land are you able to get

an orthopedic doctor who will take North

Carolina workers' comp to treat them?

Interaction with a collective

bargaining agreement. Are there credits?

Are there injury protection,

injury grievances?

How do they interact with the

workers' compensation statute? I mean,

all of that can be very

complex and challenging,

not to mention that the players

often have multiple injuries.

So not uncommon for us to have

one player who has four or

five different injuries,

different injury dates,

different dates in and out

of work, different providers

for medical treatments.

So just juggling all those balls,

keeping them all in the air,

seeing how they interact with each

other and how they change is sort of an

ever-changing thing.

And that keeps you engaged.

So it's kind of like watching

my son play video games.

He keeps leveling up and it keeps

getting harder and that keeps him going.

Yeah, it keeps him engaged.

He has to add one from what

he knew in the first level,

but now he has to add

these four other moves.

Not that I'm a video

game expert in any way.

No, no. I never really mastered

the whole joystick thing,

which is another thing that, well,

that is different for

this generation than ours.

I'm good at some things,

but my kids completely laugh because when

they were playing Minecraft and I was

like, "I could do this. This is

like putting things together.

That's exciting." I dug a

hole and couldn't hop out.

And so they were just like,

"Okay, mom, you're.

Done." I tried to play Minecraft with

my son during the pandemic and I kept

drowning. I could not

get out of the water.

It was hopeless. Get.

Out of the water and you're like,

"I'm trying to get out of the water.".

It was entertaining for

a minute. Well, Martha,

thank you so much for being on

the podcast today and for all

that you give to NCHA and being

involved in sharing your knowledge

and of all the different

levels that you're at.

It's been really fun to chat

with you, Amber. I appreciate it.

Thanks. If you would like to register

for the CLE Workers' Comp Roundtable,

if you are a member of

the workers' comp section,

you can go to NCAJ.com/events.

It will be at NCAA headquarters

in Raleigh on April 10,

and it is in- person only,

no virtual. Got to be there.

Thanks everyone for listening.

And if you're watching on YouTube,

don't forget to subscribe to this channel.

Thank you for joining us on

this episode of Voices of NCAJ.

For more information on the North Carolina

Advocates for Justice and how to join

or support NCAJ,

please visit our website at www.ncaj.com.