Leadership accountability is the championship skill most service-based businesses are missing—and in Episode 173, Chris Gillen breaks it down with game-winning clarity. Drawing from decades leading Fortune 500 teams and fast-growth startups, Chris exposes how the blame cycle destroys trust, stalls momentum, and turns teams into silent saboteurs.
From overwhelmed trades business owners missing calls to executives pointing fingers instead of taking ownership, this episode delivers a hard truth: leaders set the tone—or pay the price. Chris introduces the core ideas behind his book The Villain Trap and explains how embracing responsibility builds trust, alignment, and real performance.
If you want to stop reacting, start leading, and turn customers and employees into true superfans, this episode is your playoff playbook.
Discover more with our detailed show notes and exclusive content by visiting: https://linkly.link/2W6me
Key Takeaways
Leadership accountability drives trust: Ownership beats excuses every time—inside teams and with customers.
Fast follow-up wins the sale: Speed to response sets the bar and collapses the sales cycle.
Blame creates villains, not results: Finger-pointing erodes culture and kills momentum.
AI can stabilize feast-or-famine cycles: Tools like CallerBase AI protect revenue by never missing a call.
Employees are your front line brand: Treat them like MVPs, not replaceable parts.
Superfans are built through respect: Recognition fuels loyalty more than compensation alone.
Ownership starts at home: Leadership isn’t a title—it’s a daily behavior.
Chris Gillen is a leadership advisor, speaker, and author of The Villain Trap. With 35+ years across retail, startups, and Fortune 500 organizations, he helps leaders eliminate blame cultures and build accountability-driven teams. Chris also co-founded CallerBase AI, empowering service businesses to capture opportunities through intelligent voice automation.
This episode felt like a fourth-quarter comeback. Chris didn’t just diagnose the problem—he showed us the film review. Blame cultures drain energy like a locker room divided against itself. Ownership? That’s how dynasties are built.
From trades businesses missing calls to enterprise leaders dodging responsibility, Chris reinforced what we teach inside the SUPERFANS Framework™: accountability fuels trust, trust fuels performance, and performance creates superfans everywhere—employees, customers, and partners alike.
If leadership is the scoreboard, ownership is the stat that wins championships.
Everybody wants to create super fans, as you say, but more often than not, they're creating supervillains.
Intro/Outro:
But I am the world's biggest super fan. You're like a super fan. Welcome to the Business Superfans podcast.
We will discuss how establishing business superfans from customers, employees and business partners can elevate your success exponentially. Learn why these advocates are a key factor to achieving excellence in the world of commerce.
This is the Business Superfans podcast cast with your host, Freddie D.
Freddy D:
Hey super fans.
Superstar Freddy D. Here in this episode 173, we're joined by Chris Gillen, a leadership advisor, coach and speaker who helps leaders break free from one of the most damaging patterns in business, the blame cycle.
Too many service based businesses struggle with low trust, misalignment and leaders who feel stuck reacting instead of owning the story they're creating.
Drawing from over a decade advising Fortune 500 teams and fast growth startups, Chris has built and rebuilt cultures where accountability and trust actually stick. His journey, rooted in early lessons from his grandfather to real world leadership trenches, brings lived experience, not theory.
If you ever felt the weight of dysfunction or finger pointing inside your business, this conversation shows you how ownership changes everything. Welcome, Chris, to Business Superfans, the service Provider's Edge. Great conversation that we had before we started recording.
So let's continue that conversation for our listeners and welcome to the show.
Chris Gillen:
Thank you, Freddie. Thanks for having me. It's a real honor to be here and to be talking about some of the stuff we were talking about before.
So I'm excited to get into it.
Freddy D:
Put it on into the show.
Chris Gillen:
Let's do it.
Freddy D:
So let's go back to your history. I mean, you've got a couple things going. You put out a really cool new book called the Villain Trap and then you've also got this caller based AI.
And as we talked before we started recording, you were in the retail industry. So let's go back to the history and how did that lead you to where you are today?
Chris Gillen:
Yeah, so actually interesting, man.
I started my career with the expressed intention of getting into law enforcement and I actually have a degree in criminal justice and I was a correctional officer for a number of years. That's how I started my career.
And I had every intention of, you know, going and becoming a federal or cop or doing something, but my life took a bit of a different turn and I got into retail and I actually started my retail career on the security side, the loss prevention side of things.
And that quickly morphed into operational roles and supply chain roles and running stores and districts and eventually running customer service for companies like Toys R Us when Toys R Us was still around.
So 35 years in retail, I tell people I had the privilege of working for some of the world's most amazing companies at that time, like Target, Home Depot, Toys R Us. And that took me all over. Not only all over the US but all over the world.
And I owe a lot to my retail career, but exited and started doing a lot of consulting in startups.
I'm a very entrepreneurial person and so I like to help other people, you know, kind of take their idea and figure out how to bring it to life and what to do with it. The last five and a half years I ran a market research and data analytics company and exited that to do really two things.
One is to promote this concept from my book, which I'm very, very passionate about. But as you mentioned, I also started a voice AI company.
I got very into what AI was going to do is specifically to voice when ChatGPT launched almost three years ago.
And my wife and I have built a company around that that focuses on helping small businesses, trade businesses get better at answering their phones and following up with customers and managing service calls. And we're really excited about that. So that's a little bit about me and why I'm here.
Freddy D:
Oh, good story. The yeah. You know, we talked before you start recording and especially in the trades business, the biggest thing is follow up.
Chris Gillen:
Yes.
Freddy D:
And you know, being engaged with prospective customer and existing customers or partners that you work with, it's really about maintaining that communication and never cutting that off. You can't cut that off.
Chris Gillen:
You know what I find Freddie having the opportunity now to work with many different small trade businesses is that oftentimes the person that owns and runs the business is the person doing the work. And I hear from them a lot where they're out, they're executing, they're doing the work. They come home, they've got 15 phone calls.
Whether that's estimates or quotes or things that they have to send out, it becomes very, very overwhelming for them.
And then, you know, with what's kind of happening in the world, trying to go out and hire somebody right now for a small business is just, it really is becoming a non starter because they're having trouble finding people. They can't always pay what people want.
And so that was one of the reasons we got really excited about our venture caller base AI was to help them alleviate some of that work so they can follow up like what you Just said, still execute the work and do it efficiently and affordably.
Freddy D:
Yeah. Because, you know, someone inquires, I have a rule that, you know, you got a 15 minute window.
Someone inquires through your website about your product or service.
Chris Gillen:
Right.
Freddy D:
And you don't respond within 15 minutes, there's someplace else that's in today's world.
Chris Gillen:
You'Re just going down the list. I mean, you know, for me, any work that I do, I typically try to find three. Three vendors. And then I all give them the same opportunity to respond.
But, you know, unfortunately, what I was telling you before we started, you know, and I'm not joking about this, three out of every five vendors I just never hear back from. Right. Either they never get back with me on my inquiry, or they come out, say, I'll send you an estimate, and then you never hear anything.
And I don't think that has anything to do with anything malicious or that they can't run the business. I just think they're overwhelmed. And this is where technology deployed properly can really help them.
Freddy D:
Oh, sure.
You know, to really emphasize that point, Chris, when I was working with a company a couple years ago, I closed more sales over the phone because I was the first person to respond.
Chris Gillen:
Respond? Yeah.
Freddy D:
And by responding, within minutes, they were taken back. Wow, that was fast. This is.
Yeah, they call me Fast Freddie, you know, and they get people to laugh and that usually breaks the ice and it gets it going. And talk about the service. But here's the advantage that you have if you're first in sales, you get to set the bar. Yeah.
So if they're going to go shop to some competitors, you can put the bar so high and set up some things that, you know, your competitors don't do well and they'll step into it, and that knocks them out of the equation.
Chris Gillen:
That's right.
Freddy D:
And the other thing in sales is you never want to be the middle guy. You don't want to be number two. You either want to be number one or number three. Number two always loses.
Chris Gillen:
Always loses.
Freddy D:
And you think of a movie, you remember the beginning of the movie, you remember the end of the movie, you don't remember all the parts in the middle of the movie.
Chris Gillen:
True.
Freddy D:
So something I learned before is you find out you're rescheduled to be third.
Chris Gillen:
There you go.
Freddy D:
But the point is, it's really speed to communication. What you're doing with the AI voice system is really giving that speed to communication.
Chris Gillen:
Yeah.
And you know, what we found also is the small business community, which is responsible for more employment and generation of revenue than just about anybody is sorely underserved when it comes to technology because they just don't have the money and the infrastructure to think about how do I take some of this cool new technology that can help me and implement it? And they don't have the time. And when we developed Caller Base, we wanted it to be really, really easy and simple for people to get on.
No technical background or IT staff required. Right.
And the other thing that we found is that most people, and this applies to almost everybody, hasn't, doesn't really understand what true gentic voice AI is. They're still thinking about the old robotic IVR that you call, you know, press one for this or say this.
And when they hear our agents and they can have this supernatural intelligent conversation just like you and I are having now, they're really blown away.
And then when you add on top of that that our agents can send emails and text message and schedule appointments and calendars and they never have to do any of that for a lot less than you could go even hire a part time person to answer your phones, they get really excited.
And what I love is hearing them three, four months after implementation saying I haven't missed a call, I've booked more appointments than I ever thought I could. And that's really what we wanted to do. We want to help small business owners and we want to help them be as successful as they can.
Freddy D:
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ssa hyphen prospecting hyphen:
All right, let's get back to our conversation because, you know, as you mentioned, Chris, is the fact that it's taking their time and reorganizing it in a fact that, okay, they don't have to worry about handling the phone calls and inquiries. Everything else, it's being taken care of so they can focus on what they do best.
Chris Gillen:
That's right.
Freddy D:
And know that they're not missing business opportunities, which changes the mental mindset of the individual. In a lot of service based businesses, it's feast or famine. You know, you get the deal, now you got to work your butt off to get it to work done. Okay.
In the meantime, you're not prospecting anywhere else because you're busy doing the work. The work's done, you get paid, and then all of a sudden you go, I just had to spend all that money for all the bills and everything else.
And oh my God, I got nothing in a hopper now I got to scramble to find another deal. So what you're doing with your platform is allowing them to not go up and down in that feast or famine scenario.
Chris Gillen:
That's right. Yeah. It's really rewarding work. You know, if we can help small businesses and if we can help them be more efficient and help them grow.
I love doing business with small business and I live in a small town. And so really your only options are to, you know, transact with small business owners.
But for me, it's a good feeling to know that you're helping these people that have put it all on the line to start their business, no matter what business it is. If we can just help one small business do better, be better, get more appointments, get more bookings, we're doing our job. Yeah.
Freddy D:
And you start creating super fans of the service that you're providing.
And so now you get that momentum because now they're going to tell their people that they know because everybody has at least 250 people that they know directly or indirectly. And so now there's no better PR than what I call a super fan that's promoting your business and the services to you.
Chris Gillen:
Yeah.
Freddy D:
Because that shortcuts the whole sales cycle. John says you need to talk to my buddy Chris. John's not going anywhere else. He's going to basically call Chris and that's it.
And pricing doesn't become the conversation. You all that is out of the whole sales process because it's an introduction and boom, it's done.
Chris Gillen:
Yeah, well, and people, you know, look, if you live in any rural community across this Country. Finding trades that are reliable and reputable, regardless of what it is, can be a real challenge. Just take a handyman, for example.
Trying to find a handyman that can just do basic work where I am is a real chore. There's a lot of them, but I would say probably less than 5% of them, they're reputable. And you can follow up and you can do that.
And I tell the vendors that I'm working with, look, if you got great follow up and great communication and you do great work, I'm going to keep using you and I am going to be your biggest fan.
And if somebody asked me, hey, do you know somebody that can take care of my yard or somebody that does roofing, I'm going to say yes, I know exactly who you need to call. And that's that. And that's the best referral possible. This is where society is headed.
If you look at what's happening in just traditional consumerism, people want to buy from businesses and individuals that they connect with, that they trust. And there's mutual respect. That's why you're seeing the rise of social influence.
That's why you're seeing social selling and social commerce now where people are out. I'm hearing from people that I know and trust that are promoting your business, which drives me to the business and that's, that's where it's headed.
So trades need to think about that as well.
Freddy D:
And it goes just as well for professional services. There's no difference. Services, service, service is.
And it can be trade or it can be professional because you know, you got a lawyer that doesn't respond or a medical professional that doesn't really take the time to understand because you know, they got that six minute window and you can't learn anything about a patient in six minutes.
Chris Gillen:
Yeah, well, you can't. I just wrote a paper, Freddie, and people who follow me on LinkedIn or Substack. I just wrote this article.
I typically put out articles once a week about what's happening with this concept of just being ghosted. Whether it's a recruitment issue or you're trying to connect with the business or follow up with a person or somebody.
We've, we've villainized this concept of fast follow up.
And now what's in what ends up happening is you spend more time just trying to get somebody to respond to you than you do actually executing whatever it is you need to execute. And it's become a real problem. When I go to a website, whether it's a business or A trade or whatever. I'm not going just to one website.
I'm probably going to multiple. And I'm filling out a contact us, an inquiry form.
And the first person that calls me back is typically the person that's going to get my attention the most. As soon as that thing came in, you picked up the phone and you were calling. That scores points with the consumer. Absolutely.
Freddy D:
Because it shows you pay attention and you're respecting their time. You're respecting their time. And because they're putting in effort to put in there, you respond quickly. Like I said before, you can set the stage.
And I've closed more sales on the spot because I had the chance to build a reputation with them, leverage some of our past customers and name drop. And you start naming some customers and they go, oh, I'm familiar with those people. Oh, that's your customer.
Chris Gillen:
Yeah.
Freddy D:
And you can just collapse the whole sales process very quickly.
Chris Gillen:
Yeah.
You know, every relationship, and this isn't just define itself to our personal relationships, business relationships, relationships with our employers or employees is all built on one thing, and that's trust. And how do you begin to build trust with somebody?
Well, you start showing them that you can follow up quickly, that you can respond quickly, that you can answer quickly, that begins to build trust.
I know if I send you an email and I know you're usually good to respond quickly, then there's a trust factor that comes along with that when you don't respond. And this is what these companies get wrong all the time.
When you fail to follow up and you fail to respond, there are consequences at that point in time. I'm remembering that and saying, well, you never followed up with me, you never got back with me. I sent you three emails.
And it could be as simple as the person that says, and I hear these all the time, right. Oh, I'm going to, I'm going to call you tomorrow. Okay, great. And then tomorrow comes and I wait and I get no phone call.
Now, look, you could have run into all sorts of issues and I get it, but there are consequences for that because immediately I'm thinking to myself, Freddie said he was going to call and he didn't call. And regardless of what happens, that's just kind of a notch, you know, a little tick.
And then it happens again where you say you're going to send me something, you never send me something.
These are all things eroding your social credit, if you will, and eventually, if you do that enough, no matter, nobody's going to come buy from you because there's no trust.
Freddy D:
Right. When I managed a large account that I got a couple years ago, I mean, it was a huge account and, you know, there was issues with the service.
Things happen. First thing I would do is I would acknowledge that I received the inquiry. That was rule number one that I put in place within the company.
So anybody comes up with an issue that a contractor didn't do such and such. First off, before you start asking a question, acknowledge that you received it.
So this shows, hey, people, right off the bat that someone's already on it. And that just. I'm really emphasizing what you just said there, Chris, because then person goes, okay, they got it.
And so now all of a sudden they're, they're, they're comfortable, they're relaxed.
Chris Gillen:
Yeah.
Freddy D:
And they're busy going on there because they go, okay, these guys are on top of it. And then you respond and says, okay, thank you. You know, we're looking into it. This is what we're doing. You keep them informed.
I go back, I always share this funny story is it's like dating, okay? You know, if you think about it, it's just like dating.
You know, whether you're dating a guy or a gal or whatever, you know, the bottom line is you don't. You make a phone call, you leave a message, you don't hear anything for a day or two, your mind goes completely in the wrong direction.
Because we, that's how we think. We don't think positive, we go negative. It's the same thing in business. Because all of a sudden they've got an issue, you don't recognize it.
Now sudden they're going, what's going on with this company? You know, and then they call, hey, did you get my email? And once that happens, you've already stepped into the wrong direction.
Chris Gillen:
That's right. And how I put that, Freddie, is everybody wants to create super fans, as you say, but more often than not, they're creating super villains.
And what I mean by that is that they're putting themselves in a position for that particular consumer, for them to see them as a villain. And you didn't respond to me, you didn't follow up with me. Therefore, you're not a good person. I'm not going to call you.
And that's where your ego begins to fill in the gaps, because that's what our ego does. Our ego is designed to protect us from things that that are. Are not comfortable, the experience.
That's why when you, you know, you have a friend that you haven't heard from in four or five days and you've reached out and they're not responding. Oftentimes, instead of saying, gosh, I hope Freddy's okay, we go down that negative road that you said where we're saying, well, Freddie's mad at me.
Something's going on. Right. And so that's the whole concept of my book.
Freddy D:
That was a perfect segue into the book, so let's continue that role. And the book is called the Villain Trap.
Chris Gillen:
Yeah.
Freddy D:
And so let's talk about that, because that was a. We naturally segued right into there. Imagine that.
Chris Gillen:
That was awesome. Well, I tell people, look, this book was 55 years in the making, and I really immersed myself into it the last four years.
Was born into a family of victims, as I like to say. I had a great mom and dad.
Unfortunately, my dad was just the type of person that never understand his true story because he allowed himself to use other people or other things as excuses for why he couldn't do X, Y or Z. He was a great man.
He was a talented man, but he really spent the last 10 years of his life sitting in a chair, dreaming about the life that he want, but never allowing himself to get out there because he created these villains. And I watched this.
My dad died at 54, and unfortunately, my brother kind of caught the same virus of blame, and he committed suicide in his early 30s. And so I've seen first. Yeah, I've seen firsthand how this cycle of blame and lack of accountability and lack of ownership is.
Is not just damaging to your reputation. It literally can kill you. And that's what I. That's what I say happened to my dad and my brother.
I was fortunate because I was really raised by my grandfather, who was just an incredible individual and somebody that. I mean, accountability and ownership were the forefront of who he was. And he taught me that.
He taught me a lesson very early on that if I think it's my fault, it probably is.
And that's how I need to approach things from the standpoint of not taking on blame for things that I don't have accountability for, but owning every action and decision that I make. And look, I think we can agree the last five years have been difficult.
We're seeing more and more of this finger pointing and blaming and people not accepting ownership and accountability for their actions feels good and it protects me. And so I had a calling, quite honestly, to say, I gotta get this book out.
I gotta talk to businesses and leaders and people in general about the power of ownership and accountability and how we can take it back. And so that's what the Villain Trap is all about.
It's about this cycle of blame that we allow ourselves to get into that impedes our ability to grow and learn as individuals.
And so that's the whole framework I put together in the Villain Trap, talking about why it happens and the five stages that actually open the Villain Trap, what that looks like in your organization, small or large, and then more importantly, how to get out of it. And so that's really the essence of the book. I tell people that I'm on a mission to create something called no Villains vibration.
And that is a commitment for people. And it doesn't have to be the business leaders.
Look, we're all leaders in our personal lives, whether it's in our families, our churches, our communities, whatever we're doing. But it's a call to action, to say to people, I'm no longer going to point fingers and I'm no longer going to blame.
I'm going to take full responsibility and accountability for my actions and decisions. And more importantly, I'm going to embrace the consequences, good and bad, associated with those. And so to me, this is a movement.
You know, the book is just the starting point. I hope people read it. So far, everybody that's read it has had really big takeaways. My intent here, man, is to change how we're thinking.
And if I have to do that one person at a time to get back to a place where we recognize that we're here for one reason, and that's to support and help each other. Somebody asked me one time, I call every man I meet brother, and they say, why? Why do you do that? They're not your brother.
I said, you are my brother. And that's how we should be looking at it, is that we should be nurturing and supporting and trusting each other and helping each other.
But, man, this division is getting wider and wider, and we're starting to see blame and finger pointing turn into villainization. And villainization is what gives hate life. Sure. Really?
So that's why I'm so passionate about this and trying to do everything I can just to get people to take a minute, read the book, listen to the book, reflect on it and see what can you do. How can you change to be a better father, a better mother, a better leader at your work, a better leader in your community?
Freddy D:
Yeah. Well, I'm going to emphasize what you just said in a very simple term. When you're pointing a finger at somebody, you got three pointing back at You.
Chris Gillen:
Yeah, that's right.
Freddy D:
And that's bottom line. It's been around for ages.
Chris Gillen:
Yeah.
Freddy D:
Forever. And you got three pointing back at you. So a look at yourself because most likely you're the problem.
And you're right, you're deflecting because you're pointing to somebody else, but the reality is it's you.
Chris Gillen:
Well, you know, I always told people, they're like, well, I'm not going to accept accountability for things I didn't do. That's not the point.
The point is owning what you own in that situation, whatever it is and example that I like to use is I've had the good fortune of leading great teams of people all over the world. And I would love it when one of my leaders would come to me and say, I just hired Freddie and I'm so excited about it. They were just fired up.
When you get that person that you're excited about and three months later they show up and say, well, Freddie isn't working out. And well, why not? Well, he's just not. He's not as good as I thought he was. And it would be really easy.
And most companies would say, well, yeah, we got a performance management and get Freddie out. But what I would ask my leaders every time they did that is what didn't you do to help Freddie be successful and back this look of horror.
Like, are you saying it's my fault? I'm saying that it's your fault. I'm saying you need to take a step back and identify what you could have done differently in the onboarding process.
Maybe there's nothing. But we owe it to you, Freddie, and we owe it to ourselves to take a step back and do that.
And I would never let them fire somebody unless they could come to me and show me, you know, here's all the things that I've done and legitimately, Freddie's just not right for this position because we're just. It's too easy. It's too easy to say, well, I hired you, but you're not working out, so you're fired.
And that's the essence of how this shift in mindset around leadership we have to take because this younger generation that we're all leading, they're all going to come into the organization. You cannot lead that generation the same way you've led Gen X and Baby Boomers. If you.
Freddy D:
It's a different animal.
Chris Gillen:
It's a different animal.
Freddy D:
Different animal. And one of the things I learned when I went to a leadership training in Atlanta years ago, and it was a Dale Carnegie leadership training.
And I still apply some of those tactics today that I learned about, which was helping the individual create their own job description.
Chris Gillen:
Yes.
Freddy D:
In lines with what the company needs. But now they're emotionally connected because they're putting in their benchmark, they're putting in their KPIs that they're defining.
So now they, they own it. And that changes the dynamics. Versus okay, Chris, this is your job. This is what I expect you to do.
Versus okay, Chris, tell me what would be a successful. You being successful in this position, what would you expect them to do? And then you'd be amazed what they come back with. Yeah.
And then you turn around, says, okay, then my job is easy. My job is to help you accomplish what you just said you were going to do.
Chris Gillen:
That's it.
Freddy D:
It's easy.
Chris Gillen:
I was a CEO of a market research and data company, and I routinely this to anybody that would hear it, I am the least important person in this company. And they would say, well, what do you mean? I'm not making the flywheel spin here. I'm giving the vision and the direction. All of you are doing that.
So my job is to figure out how I help you be the best version of you you could be. That's my job as the CEO. And so many organizations right now have this backwards.
Freddy D:
Totally agree.
Chris Gillen:
I just responded to an email about Starbucks. You know, Starbucks announced it's closing like 900 stores and they're laying people off and they're doing this. And to watch the.
I don't think Starbucks is going away, but to watch their fall over the last year or so, and there's many reasons for that, has been interesting. But I can tell you that Starbucks has one issue. They have a blame culture. That's what they're facing.
Employees are blaming leadership for not listening. Leadership are blaming employees for not executing.
Meanwhile, you've got this CEO flying around on a private jet making million billions of dollars and nobody knows what he's doing.
And until they fix that, until they figure out how to remove this blame culture from their organization, there's not a whole lot that they're going to be able to do to fix where they are today.
Because if your employees are not engaged, if your employees don't show up every day wanting to execute, wanting to do it because they trust the company, they feel safe at the company, they're never going to perform the way your organization wants them to perform.
Until these companies figure that out and start taking accountability and ownership for that, you're going to See more and more of the Starbucks and the targets continue to decline because that's exactly what they're facing.
Freddy D:
Well, you're absolutely right because I had a guest on my show several episodes back and the front line, he basically coined them as their director of first impressions.
Chris Gillen:
I love that.
Freddy D:
And the screw up of America. And to screw up in companies today is just like you just said, there's a disconnect.
And really, you know, the CEO, as you said, they're the one flying around on a jet and everywhere else and everybody else is doing the work. The reality is that's the front line. That's your most important asset in a company.
Chris Gillen:
That's not how they're treated. Right. And that's what's happening.
Because my theory on it is in our generation, Freddie, you know, we were raised to go to school, get an education, go to work. Work 6am to 10pm that's just what you did seven days a week. We were grinders.
And so companies got used to that mentality of us just showing up and saying we're going to do it. We don't need any other motivation. This is the most important thing for us. That's not how Gen Z, Gen Alpha are thinking.
They're thinking completely different. Work is simply a means to live. So I'm not going to put in 70 or 80 hours a week. It's not that they can't.
They will if you motivate them and inspire them and encourage them correctly.
Freddy D:
Create super fans on the team. That's one of my quotes in my book is people crawl through broken glass for appreciation and recognition. That's right.
But management doesn't do a good job of that. And you know, and that's where they're missing out because that's how you start creating superfans eternally is you start appreciating the team.
Because no team, no business in a lot of cases. And we're just talking about what's happening with Starbucks.
Chris Gillen:
Yeah.
Freddy D:
So you get that team to feel appreciated, they're excited about the company.
That energy transcends to customers because we've all gone into places and the person's just there and they're just like a robot, you know, can I help you? They're not even smiling or anything like that. And you go, geez.
Chris Gillen:
I don't eat a lot of fast food. And but I use this example all the time for people who do.
When you walk in to name your fast food restaurant, more than likely there's a 16, 17 or 18 year old kid Making your hamburger in the back.
Do you want that kid to be engaged and inspired and motivated to make the best hamburger he can make for you, or are you okay with that kid being angry, pissed off, and doesn't give a crap about what he's doing back there? Unwrap that hamburger. Hamburger. Tell me that that doesn't matter to you as a consumer. It should absolutely matter.
Freddy D:
Absolutely. Nailed it. Right on the money. Because that's. That is it. That's the first. Those are first impressions or director first impression.
And then you wonder why some of these restaurants, I mean, it doesn't even have to be fast food. I've gone to sit down restaurants, and the service is horrible.
Chris Gillen:
Yeah.
Freddy D:
And then you don't go back, you know, and then. And then people wondering, you know, this place is empty.
Chris Gillen:
Yeah.
Freddy D:
You know, why?
Chris Gillen:
Well, because.
Well, and it's an interesting thing that you bring up because, you know, I'm very passionate about customer service, too, and have been my whole life. But what I will tell you is happening along with this is that how we think about great service is changing. And it's no longer.
And this generation is dictating it. The generation that's coming up, it's no longer about being overtly friendly and big smiles and how are you today? And how can I help you?
Because to the generations that's coming up, that's not. They don't necessarily like that. Right. Because how they were brought up and how they were raised. But it goes back to what we said.
It's, you know, how quickly do I come to your table? Am I cordial? How quickly do I get your food out? The quality of the food when you come, how quickly the checkout processes those. That is service now.
Right. It's what service should look like.
So it's less about the, you know, that I always, you know, people always think about the Southern lady who's, you know, asking you a bunch of questions about your kids and. And that's great. I'm not, I'm not. I'm not saying that isn't.
I'm just saying it's changing and we need to think differently about that because I think this consumer is more focused on efficiency and low level of effort and friction versus somebody. You know, the old Zappos story. Right. Where you would call and they would order a pizza for you. Sure. You know, those days are gone.
That's not what this generation is all about.
Freddy D:
No, you're absolutely correct. It is dynamically changing. And the importance of being engaged, understanding that is happening.
And Leveraging that in a way that is beneficial for everybody. Because you're absolutely correct.
You know, we grew up, you and I grew up in a world where, you know, you roll up the sleeves and you and you dug in and got it done.
Chris Gillen:
That's right.
Freddy D:
Today it's more about balance of, okay, I want life. I'm here to make money, as you said, so I can pay my bills, so I can do the things I want to do.
And the job is really now becoming more of a means to an end versus how you and I grew up.
Chris Gillen:
And I have to be honest with you, I applaud it.
I applaud the fact that we're seeing generations start to wake up a little bit and say, life isn't about giving all of my energy 70 or 80 hours a week to a company where I'm making people at the top richer than I am myself. And that's the reality of it. Yes. Do you need to be a good worker? Sure. Do you need to follow the rules and do the things? Sure you do.
Do you have to do that 70 or 80 hours a week? And can it be a reasonable expectation that I do a job and I get paid for it and still have time to actually live a life? Yes.
And that's what's happening in this, creating this, the villain trap between businesses and this new generation of employee.
And until they figure out how to come together and how to work together, businesses are going to have a harder and harder time hiring, keeping people, building a culture and then executing to the point where they can actually make money. Yep.
Freddy D:
And that's really where your book and the caller base AI come into place. Because one is you're helping it from the mental aspect of a leadership aspect.
And then here's a tool that will help you streamline some of that processes.
So you're coming at it from two different directions and helping service based businesses regarding whether it's professional or trade based, really address two critical components.
Chris Gillen:
That's exactly right. Yeah. And you know, the book for me is a calling, it's a movement.
I like to say, if I can get people to just get on board with this concept of just saying, you know what, me and only me is accountable for my decisions and my actions and I'm not going to villainize other people. I'm not going to point fingers and I'm not going to blame, I'm going to learn to accept those.
And if you have that mentality, suddenly the decisions you make change because you're now thinking about the consequences which I think is a real problem right now for people where they've got these unrealistic expectations of the decisions they're making and the outcome. And that's where we have to get back to because it feels a little bit like fear mongering.
But we all know the last few months have been contentious with a lot of villainization going on many different places.
And I'm fearful, I'm genuinely fearful that as a society, if we don't get back to a place where we can have open dialogue and discussions and we can talk intelligently and civilly and listen intelligently and civilly, I'm not too sure what's going to happen to this country. And that's just the reality. It doesn't matter what political side you're.
Freddy D:
On or what you have to do with anything.
Chris Gillen:
Does it have to do with anything? And you know, people say, well, we can't talk anymore. I agree with that.
But the bigger issue is we can't listen anymore and we've just stopped listening to each other. Right. If you're, you are counter to what I believe. I don't even listen anymore. I just point fingers and I yell and I blame.
And we have to change that.
Freddy D:
And it's applicable in all aspects of life because that takes place in at home, that takes place in the business environment, that takes place with friends. I mean, it really affects life.
Chris Gillen:
It does.
Freddy D:
And you know, one of the things that I remember is Sir Richard Branson says, at the best, there's no separation between personal time and work. It's called life.
Chris Gillen:
It's called life.
Freddy D:
It's called life. And that's the reality of it. And it's all intertwined. And so it's not that you're going to work for eight hours. That's life.
You gotta create money to pay for stuff. Yeah, but then how do you separate those two? And you can't really, because they're intertwined.
Chris Gillen:
Yeah. You know, I remind people too. While this book is really for leaders, I remind them two things.
One, it's not just people in business, like I said, your leader and your community in your home. And I specifically added a bonus chapter into the book that talks about the villain trap at home.
Because we are actually harder on the people that we love and the people that are around us than we are other people. And listen, we all villainize a million times a day. A million times a day we do it.
It could be the guy that cuts you off in traffic that you're putting your fist up. I mean, take your Pick. Right. And so this is not just a book for people in business and leadership.
This is a book for anybody that is in any kind of role, whether you're head of house, in your church, in your communities and in your nonprofits, whatever. I just urge people to read the book and I tell them this has nothing to do with money for me, you don't write a book to make money. You know that.
Freddy, write a book because you want to get a message out and you want people to hear it. Listen, that's my point. Yeah.
Freddy D:
And that's what I do with creating business super fans is really to transforming that whole ecosystem in a business. And it goes well as home. You know, I'm on my second marri marriage. We're going on what going on 14 years, starting January.
And one of the things that we said from the beginning was, and I brought it up to her was we're two individual people that are coming together for the commonality between the two of us. And so we have to respect each other's individualism.
Chris Gillen:
That's right.
Freddy D:
And cherish the commonalities that we have.
And we've been having a blast because we look at it from that perspective, and we started off years ago, was that we're teammates and that's the mindset that we brought into the equation. And that changes the dynamics completely.
Chris Gillen:
I'm on my second 12 years and that's exactly how my wife and I operate. We see each other as equals, as partners. You know, we accept each other for who we are, quirks and all.
And there's a real sense of trust and respect, which is, to me is the bedrock for any relationship and foundation. Something I didn't have in my first marriage. Right. Which is why it didn't work out. And so I fully agree with you.
But that's the same approach you need to take with the people you lead, the people you interact with, people around you. The biggest issue, and one of the things I talk about, Freddie, is one of the biggest things to be that person is to have humility. And you never.
This is a word that we have lost in our vocabulary because we've become so self centered.
And look at me, and it's all about me because of social media, that we've lost our ability to be humble, that we've lost our ability to say, it isn't about me. What I should be doing is helping all of the people around me. Right.
And that's the quickest way to open the trap is let your pride, your hubris and your Arrogance dictate how you treat other people.
Freddy D:
You want to create super fans of everybody that you know of yourself.
Chris Gillen:
So spot on.
Freddy D:
So with that great conversation, you and I could talk for this for at least several days.
Chris Gillen:
Yes, we could.
Freddy D:
How can people find you, Chris?
Chris Gillen:
Yeah. So the book is available on Amazon. It's a hardcover in a Kindle format. It's also available on Audible if you're more into audiobooks.
I had a great guy narrate the book for me, so hopefully everybody will like it. I encourage you to go pick up a copy, read it and if you love it, give me a review on Amazon. That's the best thing that you can do for me.
And then what I would ask is that you pass the book to somebody you believe needs it. Because that's what this movement is all about. This no villains movement is really helping one person at a time. You can also visit my website.
It's very simple. It's www.thevillintrap.com. it's all about me, how you can order the book, keynotes and speaking engagements.
If you feel like your organization needs to hear this message. I love to do keynotes and workshops, so feel free to reach out.
Freddy D:
And what about the caller base AI?
Chris Gillen:
Caller base AI. Visit us@callerbaseai.com you can see what we're doing.
You can engage with our virtual assistant Jessica by clicking the widget on the website so you can have a direct conversation instead of a chat. You can still chat if you want, but you can actually hear it. You can talk to Jessica. She'll tell you all about Caller Base.
You'll be able to set up an appointment. It's the best advertisement that I have versus a demo or anything else if you just go. There's also a number if you'd like to call.
You can do that and you can really engage and hear a way to get in touch with us that we can actually do a demo and see if we can help your business.
Freddy D:
Perfect. Well, we'll make sure that that's in the show. Notes. Thank you so much for your time. Great conversation.
Would love to have you on the show down the road.
Chris Gillen:
Thank you very much. Freddie. It's been an honor.
Freddy D:
What a powerful conversation with Chris today.
Chris Gillen:
The big takeaway.
Freddy D:
Blame kills trust and ownership builds it. Whether it's inside your team, with your customers or even with yourself.
The moment leaders stop pointing fingers and start owning the story they've created, everything changes. For service based business owners, that shift is massive. It's the difference between chaos and clarity.
Between constant reaction and intentional leadership. Chris reminds us that trust isn't built through big speeches. It's built through follow up accountability and doing what you say you're going to do.
That's how you create alignment, momentum, and real superfans. If you enjoyed today's conversation, make sure to hit subscribe so you don't miss future episodes. Subscribe thanks for tuning in today.
I'm grateful you're here and part of the Business Superfans movement. Every insight you apply and action you take puts you one step closer to building a business fueled by trust, loyalty, and true superfans.
Remember, one action, one stakeholder, one superfan closer to lasting prosperity.
Intro/Outro:
We hope you took away some useful knowledge from today's episode of the Business Superfans Podcast. Join us on the next episode as we continue guiding you on your journey to achieve flourishing success in business.
