Rory and Greg reflect on their families with their parents and siblings, and with their spouses and children. They discuss the important role their significant others play in their life and process of self discovery. Greg discusses his experience raising a child with autism, and both hosts discuss the importance of empathy and understanding in parenting.

Greg discusses public libraries in the context of the current volatile social and political climate. Libraries are becoming a flash point in the culture wars, and Greg discusses specific incidents and challenges that have arisen.

The dialogue takes a philosophical turn as the hosts discuss the nature of existence and the human experience. Greg relays how Eastern philosophies influence his life and outlook on a day-today basis, and his pursuit of inner peace through mindfulness and meditation. This introspective segment encourages listeners to consider the deeper implications of their life choices and the struggles that accompany the journey of self-discovery and growth.

The conversation concludes with an exchange between Rory and Greg about what they hope to accomplish with this podcast, and how it might help foster connections within the hardcore punk community.

Mentioned in this episode:

Behind the Glass

Podcast and gallery focusing on underrepresented artists utilize the space to amplify their work. Curated by @Richardbcolon @qua.jay. Check out the podcast or join them in person first Fridays at 240 E Main St, Rochester, NY! https://behind-the-glass-gallery.captivate.fm

Foreign, I guess.

One other thing I was curious too.

How did, how did you improve Chris Meet?

Because that was something I didn't, I didn't think I knew that.

So Chris and I honestly, like, I moved back to Rochester and I realized, you know, I'm not going to meet the person.

I.

I don't believe that I'm going to meet the person at a bar because I don't do that.

Like, so I signed up for OkCupid.

Okay.

And that's how we started talking.

Tried to meet in person right before I left for like a six week European tour with Soul Control.

And that didn't happen.

But what did happen even before that tour was like the connection of like, just communication and how we were communicating with each other was just on a different level.

And so on that tour we would write emails back and forth and we stayed in touch.

And yeah, I came home and she met me.

We met in life, in real life, at one of the last, I know the breast shows.

So she drove out to that and met me and I was like, this is it.

Yeah, this is it.

She's the one.

And like, I just knew instantly, like just the connection we had.

And she ended up driving me back to Rochester that night.

She didn't have a cell phone at that time, so it was really interesting.

She like texted her friend from my phone.

Like a code or something.

Yeah, yeah.

And so it was really, really endearing and sweet, but like, that's how we met and like, that was it.

And I remember going even that October, me and Goose from Polar Bear Club, Soul Control was doing like a little quick tour down to the fest in Gainesville and him and I were just chatting like we.

I was in Rochester, he was the only one in Syracuse, and we were meeting both of our bands in Long island or something.

Okay.

But we were just like, you know, drive, hanging out, talking.

And I was like, dude, I met the love of my life.

Like, this is it.

I'm gonna marry her.

And he's like, dude, me.

Then he.

We were just, so.

We were just like talking about like love and like that and like, he was, him and his girlfriend at the time.

They ended up getting married.

And like, so it's like really cool to like share those moments and just knowing.

Yeah, but Chris doesn't really come from punk or hardcore.

She comes from like EDM and dance music.

But was going through, you know, a time of her life where she needed to separate herself from all of that.

Yeah.

And yeah, that's.

She was like, I need to get sober.

And was doing that, she ended up apparently a mutual friend of ours that we really didn't have a super.

I didn't have a super strong connection with him, but we floated in the same world.

Yeah.

Is this tattoo artist Eric Foster?

Okay.

Yeah.

She would get tattooed by him.

That was her tattoo artist.

And she asked him, like, do you know this guy?

And he's like.

He's like, oh, yeah, Rory.

He's a good dude.

And so I guess I got that seal approval was perfect.

A good seal of approval for her.

And then meeting her dog Lexi at the time was also like, okay.

Like, if Lexi didn't like me, then it would have been game over.

Oh, yeah.

Oh, good, good, good.

Good thing that worked out for your kids, because otherwise they would.

They would have to endure non existence.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So.

So that was, you know, that was it.

And then, yeah, we just celebrated our 11th wedding anniversary on the 16th.

Oh, okay, cool.

Well, congratulations.

Thanks.

Yeah.

Wild.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I.

I mean, like, my wife, Ann, we've been together, I think, for 22 and something years now.

Crazy.

Yeah.

I like.

And, like, it's like, more than half my life at this point, which is, like, weird to be out a little bit sometimes, but I'm grateful that I have that continuity in my.

In my adult life, because I don't know that I would have had much else maybe other than work, which, you know, is nice, but I don't want my whole personality to be work.

And, you know, she's really, like, the perfect mom for our kids because, you know, we've got two neurodivergent boys, one with autism, and she worked for, like, I don't know, I want to say, like, seven to somewhere between seven and nine years at the Sunshine Camp.

I remember that.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Which was a camp for kids who have all kinds of special needs and disabilities.

Did she work with Mat.

Max Quatsachi?

I don't know.

I gotta ask her.

I feel like they may have.

I think he worked at that camp too.

Oh, maybe she did.

As a counselor.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Because that's what she did.

Yeah.

But, like, she wound up, you know, learning just so much about autism through working at that camp.

That really enabled her.

Like, when our son came along by six months, she was like, no, we gotta.

We gotta keep an eye on this because we've got some things going on in a way that I would not have noticed for, like, probably a year more after.

And it was really beautiful to see it come full circle, because last summer, our oldest was old enough to go to Sunshine Camp during their Autism Week.

They have, like, weeks for kids with diabetes and, you know, kids who have seizures and stuff.

And it was just so phenomenal to see that kind of come full circle to go back to that camp, which I hadn't been to.

I would go visit her when she was there, you know, in my teens and twenties.

And she, like, wrote a little thing that.

That the camp wound up putting in.

Like, because the camp's funded by the Rotary Club, they're like, rotary put it in there, like, regional newsletter.

This, like, article she wrote just about the.

The full circle of it.

And it was.

It was really.

It was really special.

I'm really, really grateful that I've had a relationship with.

With anyone really, for as long as I have, but with her especially, you know, and she's.

She's been through a lot with me, you know, just with my own mental illness and addiction issues.

And I feel like, you know, so, so, so, so grateful that I.

I've been with someone that I've learned so much about being a human with.

And before I lose the thought, I want to say that Achilles song, it doesn't.

It doesn't get easier.

It just changes.

Like, I really love that.

I love the lyrics.

I've always loved all your lyrics, as I think people could probably tell from all the ass kissing I've done in this interview.

But, like, that, when that dropped, I was like, yeah, it's kind of where I'm at, you know, in my own life.

And to me, that, like, gets to one of the other things I hope to explore with some people in this podcast, which is like, kind of Eastern religions, Eastern philosophies, where, you know, as you mentioned, like, you get comfortable in your life, you figure things out, you think you know what's going to happen next, and maybe you do, but then your circumstances change in ways that you don't notice or you can't perceive until after the fact.

And it's like, oh, holy, what happened?

I thought I had this all figured out.

I thought I knew where the.

Where the road turned next.

And that's.

That's really been my experience in my, like, kind of mid-30s, into my 40s is, you know, there's very little you can actually grasp onto that's consistent in your life.

But one of those few things for me is hardcore are the relationships that I made through hardcore and that kind of the values I.

I've pulled from that.

So I wanted to make sure I touched upon that because one of the big things in My recovery, mental illness, substance abuse, wise, is Eastern religions, Buddhist philosophy.

I consider myself an atheist and, like, a secular Buddhist, but, you know, I think it blows my mind.

And obviously, the lifestyle people were living back then on the other side of the earth, the culture they were a part of was, like, totally different than anything we have now, but they were still grappling with the same problems.

Right?

Like, our technology improves, our understanding of the material universe improves, but our circumstances basically stay the same from.

From one generation, from one century and millennia to the other.

And so I hope to, you know, speak to some people or at least just speak to my own experience where, you know, there is a way.

There is a way where you can have a sense of inner peace, you can have a sense of calm that.

That you carry within you, that you can respond to the challenges of life with grace and compassion, even if.

And especially if you have no ability to change your external circumstances.

Like, how can I be a better person, even if I can't change any of the facts of my life or the realities of.

Of my life as I live it right now?

Because I think one of the things I was missing as a young person, even in my 30s, was a belief that, like, I can find a way to be okay even if I can't affect the kind of change that I think I need in the moment or on an ongoing basis.

And I think right now in hardcore, there's kind of like a resurgence and interest in bands like 108 and bands like Shelter.

I see that, like, Ray Capo has, like, a podcast where he's talking about Eastern.

Yeah.

So, like, I.

I think now is a good time to.

To do that or, you know, to.

To kind of speak to that.

Because I think still people reeling from COVID the political turmoil that we're all going through, we're all feeling very powerless.

How do we.

How do we find a place of calm so that we can support the people that we love and be a stabilizing presence in their life instead of just another loud voice in their ear telling them that they need to do better or they need to do something different?

Yeah, I mean, I.

You're speaking to something, like, you know, very recently, and we can.

The reason, like, a big reason why I reentered therapy was the trauma of being attacked by a pit bull with my son involved with that and that.

Honestly, you know, I'm wearing, like, 108 mala beads right now.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And the reason that is is not necessarily a slightly spiritual thing, but more of like a constant reminder that I can breathe and I can be in control of my own body and my own space.

And so, like, if I feel anxiety or something rising in me, I physical thing that I can.

I can touch and calm myself down with and center myself.

And so folks are like, oh, what are you.

What is that?

What are you wearing?

And so it's a, It's a nice conversation piece too, but at the same time, like, I'm still working through it.

I don't have any specific mantras or anything that I'm attaching to it, but it's more of like, centering myself, breathing through it, and feeling, finding peace within myself, rather than like grappling with the things I can't control, which are outside of me.

Yes.

Yeah.

I sometimes think the only thing that it might even be reasonable to expect to control is your.

Are your thoughts and your breathing.

You know, it's, it's, it's.

There have been times where I'm like, do I.

It's.

Does free will even exist?

But I keep coming back to, like, if nothing else, I can focus on my breath, I can calm myself down, I can slow my breathing, which will slow my heart rate.

And I've been like, part.

A big part of my recovery from mental illness and substance abuse has been meditation.

And to me, I mean, there can be a spiritual aspect to it, you know, and I have, like, thoughts on reincarnation that are, you know, non.

They would be considered heresies in any sort of Eastern religion, but are equally informed by like, you know, my understanding of, of physics.

But if, if, if, if, if I'm doing nothing else, if I build no other skills in life, I want to be able to at least control my own sense of anxiety.

And through meditation, I, you know, like, there can be a spiritual angle to it, but really what I'm doing is I'm practicing calming myself down because I need practice doing that.

You would think, hey, people like being relaxed.

It'll come naturally.

And maybe for some people it does, but not, not for me.

Not when you have ptsd, not when you have, like, nightmares and you're waking up flight state.

You know, I need that daily practice of slowing my heart, my breath, so I can slow my heart rate.

And it took me probably like a year of going to like, meditation classes before I felt like, wow, this actually works.

I can actually reliably control my, my breathing and my heart rate and calm myself down and put myself in A better mental place to respond to whatever challenges may come.

So, you know, that is like a practical application of, like, kind of my interest in Eastern philosophies.

But I also, like, and I don't.

I won't get into it now because it's a whole nother podcast, but, like, the concept of non self, you know, the concept of non judgment, you know, the concept of equanimity, which is.

Is.

Is.

Is.

Is something in Eastern religions that I think is very equivalent to grace in, like, the Catholic tradition.

Those are all very important to me.

And I try to spend a lot of time thinking about those because I find them, like, comforting.

And then, you know, you speaking about the beads is another interesting one too, because I, I, you know, my kids, they both, you know, hyper.

They need help calming down.

My oldest, especially with autism, we have, like, a little bag that we take with us where there's fidgets.

There's just, like, fidgets everywhere in my house.

Yeah.

And, like, I thought they were like.

Because I knew what a fidget spinner was before he was around.

I'm like, it's a toy.

Okay, whatever.

But then when I learned about autism, I learned about how he needs, like, sensory inputs that I don't necessarily need.

And some of them I do need.

I mean, there's times where I'm like, oh, Jesus, do I have autism?

Is this the problem?

The whole time, so much I've learned.

Like, my wife even, like, and I don't think I'm divulging anything.

She'd be embarrassed.

But, like, once we had a kid with adhd, we got him diagnosed, and, you know, we got him diagnosed with autism.

She's like, I have adhd.

Like, I have adhd and I've been coping with it my whole life without ever acknowledging it or admitting it to myself or having.

Or having the support to.

To help us get help for it.

Yeah.

You know what I mean?

Like, not to go on a tangent, and I'll just say this really quick.

I think our parents generation very much aligned self worth with money.

Yeah.

Like, I want you to have a better life than me.

So they worked a lot and they did all these things to support financially.

Where I think our generation of parenting is more like, I want you to have a better life mentally.

Yes.

You know, like, healthy mind, healthy soul.

Do better.

Like, I think about my relationship with my parents, and it was like, very much like, as I spoke to earlier, like, you're going to college.

You got to pick a path and take it, you know?

And like, I'm grateful and to some extent that that was an outlook.

But there's also times where I'm like, probably should have waited like five years to go to college so I could be mature and know what to do with the opportunity.

But now I think for our, you know, now that we're having kids and you know, our generation, I don't, you know, I don't care if they're like mopping a floor somewhere.

I want them to be a decent person and have like a sense of calm that they carry with them.

You know, I want them to be able to interact with people from different cultures who've had different lived experiences and different backgrounds and different ways of life and looking at things with a spirit of non judgment and what can I learn from this person as opposed to like, not that my parents were like this, they're pretty progressive, but, you know, a lot of older folks, I think, oh, a different culture.

That's not for me, that's.

That's in conflict with my culture.

Right.

You know, I want them to be, you know, I want them to put their mental health first as opposed to like maybe their, their economic health or something like that.

But the beads, the beads and the fidget spinners.

So like, we've got like just fidgets everywhere.

We have a little bag we take with us everywhere that's got like all kinds of different fidgets, you know, because he needs these sensory inputs to kind of distract him when he gets overwhelmed in a, you know, an environment that's not conducive to him being calm.

And so once he, you know, we kind of understood he had autism.

And these things actually, they're.

They're not just toys, they're tools.

You know, I started using his fidget spinner like when the pandemic hit, we'd be on zoom.

So I, you know, I could do whatever the.

I want off camera, you know, and I'm like in work meetings that are pretty high stakes and I'm using a fidget spinner.

Like you'd see a gas stations in the dollar store, you know, and that was around the time I got way more into Buddhism and Buddhist thought.

And you know, in Buddhism there's this thing called a Tibetan prayer wheel.

And you know, in it it's like this thing you spin.

It looks kind of like a.

More of a musical instrument, but it's this thing you spin and there's like mantras written down on the inside of it.

And every rotation of the wheel is like saying the mantra wants or something that's like the belief in the religion, but at its root it's a fidget spinner.

And I'm like, oh, that's what this is.

Like they're calming themselves down.

Like the, the mantra is like that's, that's whatever.

It's the same scratching, the same itch that the fidget spinner is.

And I'm like, okay, all right, well, nothing's changed.

We just, we have television now.

More distractions from thyself.

Right, right.

But that's what, that's why we need the fidget spinners.

Yeah.

And bring us right back to the present because it's going on right now and you can feel it and you can hear it and you can see it.

So.

And it goes back to like, what can we control?

The breath and the focus?

Yes.

And then.

Yeah, like our, ourselves in that moment.

Yeah.

Because I, you know, after the, after the attack, you know, and I'm still dealing with it.

I just have moments where it's like I, like, I'm just like hyper aware of so many different things and capacities that are out of my control.

And it's just like, ah, where do I find myself?

You know, and what are the things that you can control?

You know, it's like that's the trauma response.

Because I feel like once I became aware of this like concept of hyper vigilance where I've got to be like extremely aware what's going on in all my relationship dynamics, what's going on around me, Am I safe?

I got to like keep interrogating my surroundings.

I'm not safe.

How am I not safe?

What's going on over there?

You know?

And I realized I spent like years of my life just being focused on what's going on around me in a totally unhealthy way to the detriment of focusing on what do I actually want out of life as opposed to what do I need to be aware of to keep myself safe.

Because it never ends.

Like, there's always one more threat.

There's always some unknown piece of information that if you just knew it, you could have made a better decision.

Decision.

So I feel for you, but I'm, I'm glad to hear that you're, you're doing better.

And, and you know, therapy has changed my life.

I know there's probably a point in time in my life I would have been humiliated to like stay into a microphone.

I'm like, went to therapy or I needed to go to therapy.

Same.

Yeah.

You know, and I, you know, I.

Talk about it with my team, you know, you know, it's.

It's amazing how open people can be now and how supportive people can be now by just communicating like, hey, I'm doing this.

Oh, cool.

Like, I do it too.

And just, like, creating that environment where it's okay to have empathy for others and creating a space for others to admit they need help.

Yeah.

And support.

Well, unlike adhd, I feel like when I was a kid, there were definitely kids who had adhd and I knew they had ADHD and they said they had adhd.

But there was, like, this prevailing thought in the culture where it's like, ADHD is the product of shitty parenting.

And that still is around.

And I, And I get judged all the time when I go places with my.

My kid and he's got autism.

And the way he's going to calm himself down is by, like, you know, stimming or spinning or jumping up and down in place.

And people want it.

They want an explanation.

Why is he doing that?

Why are you letting him do that?

But therapy is kind of the same where it's like, oh, yeah, ADHD is the product of shitty parenting, and you need therapy because you're not, you know, you're not a decent person or you're not taking responsibility for yourself.

And I.

I'm grateful that I've.

I've seen the progression over, you know, decades where that's become more normalized and accepted because it really has helped.

Helped me tremendously become, like, a better father and a better boss.

At work, I'm pretty open with the people as I can, as much as I can be at work.

You know, I have ptsd.

I don't get into why, because that might be traumatizing for them.

But, you know, and I'm.

And I tell them, like, one of the things I was able to do that I.

I'm really proud of is, like, I let people flex their time.

Like, I don't.

I don't, you know, you.

We've got certain obligations.

We got to be on the information desk between, you know, 10 and 1, or you got to be in a story time or a library program at a certain time, or we got a meeting we got to be on.

But if you want to flex your hours around your, like, therapy appointments, because for most people, I know they're going every week, every other week.

Some people go twice a week, and you're going to use up all your Sick time in like an old school way.

So when people do have the ability to work off desk or you know, do non public facing work, I'm like, just flex your time around those critical appointments.

And I go there, I'm like, you know, if it's a therapy, it could be dentist, it could be the primary care doctor, it can be therapy, it can be an AA meeting.

You know, you can be taking your elderly parent to a, you know, some kind of appointment.

Flex your time around that.

I mean, you can use your sick time if you want, but like flex it around that.

Because if you're not, if you're not feeling whole in your home, you're gonna feel even worse coming here.

Like, you know, it's, it's even more challenging in the workplace than it is at home.

So take care of yourself.

And I'm glad I can bring that into the workplace culture, especially in the public sector where I think we lag behind the private sector, you know, with things like remote work and flexing time and things like that.

I'm, I'm glad that, you know, in the aftermath of the pandemic, I've been able to, to speak to that about my own experience doing therapy and having ptsd, but also provide people with the flexibility so that they can, you know, they can address that for their own families too.

That's amazing.

I mean, like, I believe that you're also.

I talk about it with our team too, people, not just regulars, but other folks in the service hospitality industry are like, how do you hold on to your team and employees?

Like, you have a very consistent, you know, team and it's being able to adapt to their needs.

Like I did that work, I know what that work is like, I know what kind of stress belongs that that takes.

And it's being thoughtful about supporting them in ways that aren't just monetary.

It's not just a transactional piece.

It's like allowing space for them to show up authentically.

Okay, you had a crappy day.

I hear you.

I want you to come to work and not have to worry about that.

Not have to worry about the stressors of everything else.

Like I want you to come in and make like be able to show up and do your job.

Because the outside world isn't always the greatest to us, but at least you know, when you're here, everything's working, people are coming in, you can do the thing.

Yeah.

You know, like have an opportunity for people to have space and take care of themselves.

Like we just.

This year I added on quarterly Massages for our team.

Oh, cool.

And.

Or acupuncture if they didn't feel comfortable with massages and if folks aren't interested in that.

I'm working on other things.

But yeah, you know, does, does that bring me monetary value?

No.

But what does it do?

Like, in the grand scheme of things, it supports our team and making them realize that is something that they needed.

Yeah.

You know, it takes that, like, stress off they didn't realize they had.

And the feedback we've gotten so far has been amazing.

Yeah, yeah.

You know, yeah.

We had an acupuncturist come in one time at work because we, like, right after the pandemic, the library board was very supportive of, like, helping us shore up our mental health because it was really stressful to be in a public facing role at that point in time working in what's essentially a retail environment.

And then on top of that, you add in, we're like a function of government and we don't have a choice about what masking mandates we follow and what protocols we were following.

And so, like, one week, you know, it was required.

You have to wear masks.

And people come in and they're pissed off and they're like, I had a person spit at me because they don't want to wear a mask.

And then, you know, two weeks later the circumstances change and now masking isn't required.

And all the people that were happy to come in with masks are now pissed off at you because you aren't insisting everyone still wear masks.

And it's like, now they're the ones who are mad at you.

It's like, okay, great.

I have not a single friend in the world because, you know, these things are changing so quickly and we can't, we can't, you know, get our head around it.

But we, you know, one of the things we did was, you know, bring in a mindfulness coach, bring in acupuncture, and I don't know to like, what extent it really helped alleviate the stress of the time, but it was like, it was something that we could, we could control.

But I think what you're doing now for flextime and supporting that, I mean, that's huge.

That's amazing.

And that comes from, I, I would like to think that that would come from your, like, time of like, being in hardcore and punk and seeing, like, we can adapt, we can change, we can support the person rather than the system.

Like, yeah, what can we do to support the people here now?

Well, and so much about office work culture is about Appeasing a sense of authority that doesn't actually really exist.

Like, it's just we all kind of have internalized, like, well, the boss would want us to do things this way.

And I do think that's definitely an element where punk rock shows up, where I'm like, oh, authority.

Well, we got to give Caesar his due, but we're just going to, like, do the bare minimum of what we're required, because ultimately, the only real authority that matters is in the person before you and how they suffer and how you're treating them.

You know, ultimately, I mean, if I'm being honest, I think ultimately all authority comes from within, and you just project it onto circumstances and institutions and people around you.

But more so than in other lines of work, I feel like we've always got to leave gas in the tank because we never know when.

When the shit's going to hit the fan.

And, like, what I mean by that is, like, the culture war stuff that's going on, like, just a few weeks ago at a school board meeting, like, people descended on it because there was, like, a book with, you know, gay people in it in a school library and made national news.

It's just ridiculous.

Like, Elon Musk tweeted about it.

It was like, okay, great.

And I know, like, some of the people involved.

Wife does.

And, like, the schools get it the worst.

The public libraries were, like, adjacent to that.

And I think even among more conservative types who seem to be the ones pushing, like, censorship right now.

And I'll be honest, I've been in libraries long enough where I've seen censorship pushes from people on the left, too.

But the level of hatred that's, like, present in the community right now is frightening and unlike anything I've ever seen through.

Like, you know, the Iraq war and Bush's presidency and Trump's first term.

Like, it's scary.

And we got to leave gas in the tank because that.

That could happen to us.

And there's, like, public libraries locally in our city where somebody sees they got a book on their shelf that they don't like, and they make us think about it with the right group of people online.

And, you know, I won't say the name of the library because I don't work there, but there was a library where they saw some.

There.

There was a book about a gay, you know, gay couple raising kids in the children's library.

And, you know, what that means to me is, like, is that a book everyone's going to read?

No, but that's a book for the families that need it.

And there are plenty of same sex parents that use the libraries and they pay taxes and they deserve to check out books where there's characters that reflect them.

Yeah, their family, so that they can contextualize their life for their kids.

You know, similar with, like, you know, books about transgender issues, especially ones that are, you know, for kids.

Like, one of the most popular ones, I think the most popular one that's available.

It's basically a story about, you know, like, I think it's like a seven or eight year old, they have an older sibling who's transitioning.

The sibling is like a teenager or like in their 20s or something.

And the whole purpose of the story is like, a parent would check this book out to explain to their child, hey, this is what's going on with this person who you knew by one name before, and now they're living by another name and living a different way.

And like, any parent that is trying to, like, orient their child to life on earth and is like, putting their kids, well, being involved, you know, taking into consideration their kids are, you know, facing the same challenges that adults face would probably benefit from using a book like that in those circumstances, regardless of how they maybe feel personally about it.

But, you know, like, people saw that there were books like this in the library, and they pitched a fit on, like, a private Facebook group.

And it resulted in, like, weeks of, you know, a third of the phone calls going to that library just being people swearing at whoever picks up the phone, people finding out who works there and harassing them online, people calling them at their house and harassing them if they had a landline.

There was even an incident, you know, at the library where my wife works, where, you know, people in this private Facebook group that was set up for challenging, like, pandemic restrictions in schools.

People had posted, hey, we found this book in the library and we don't like it.

And someone had infiltrated this group and sent screenshots to the staff to give them a heads up.

But, like, in the comments were like, some of the worst things I've seen.

People were like, you know, naming, you know, co workers of my wife.

People were contributing what they knew about those people, where they lived, what kind of values they had, you know, what schools their kids went, went to.

And it really seemed to me like people were just posting anything they could contribute that they knew about this person in hopes that someone else would take that information and then harass them.

And that's what happened.

And, like, I've got to Be aware, like, this.

This can happen and it can go on for weeks, and it's really, really traumatizing.

Like, I had people on the staff at our library say, like, wow, if what happened to, you know, our colleague over there in the next town over happened to me, I don't know that I could come back.

I might have to quit.

And I would like to think that if, you know, it really happened, people would encircle them and support them and that wouldn't come to that.

But, you know, when national figures are tweeting about, you know, school board meetings locally, you know, that's a lot of scrutiny and pressure to stand up to for something that, you know, most days isn't going to even be on people's radars.

Yeah, that's a whole can of worms not to make a Rochester reference, but, you know, it's.

I.

The giving the green light for that behavior is disgusting to see happen in real time.

To almost take this, like, this doesn't affect me directly, but we can, like, almost flash mob this area to show that we have the numbers, when in reality they don't.

In that community, they're just picking something that they can really pile on.

And it's.

At least that's what I, you know, from what I understand.

Yeah.

Is happening in this specific thing and then, you know, scaling back.

Like showing up in a gorilla.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Like, like costume.

And then feigning ignorance.

I didn't know there was like, a racist connotation to this.

Like, like, this is not a new.

This is not a new thing.

This has been going on since before anyone has been born.

Is, you know, on earth.

This has been a racist trope.

Like, yeah, don't, don't, don't pretend like you're.

This is news to you.

Yeah.

And so it's just.

It's just really sad, you know, that with this administration, this change is.

Is.

It's one of those, like, oh, stop being a snowflake kind of thing.

When it's like, in reality, it's like, it has nothing to do with that.

It's like, this is just unacceptable behavior and it's coming from adults.

Yes.

And it's weird because I see people like, friend.

Like, my parents have always been pretty, pretty progressive and I.

And, you know, like, they haven't fallen into the, like, 24 hour news, you know, Fox News trap.

But, like, I see people who I knew growing up, growing up, and they did not seem to have any racist inclinations like friends, parents, or extended family.

And now I see it and it's coming out, and I'm like, was this always in you, or is this a new development?

Can you change back to who you were, or is this, like, a permanent thing in.

In your life now?

And it's just so heartbreaking because, like, at the end of the day, like, what is it actually accomplishing for you?

It's, like, burned down some of your relationships.

It's made you miserable.

And I feel like I look at some of these folks and I'm like, you're.

You're an amateur when it comes to anger.

Like, I've been angry my whole life.

I had, like, a really, really brutal childhood, and it made me incredibly angry.

And I had to, like, lose so much to realize, like, I can be angry at someone who deserves to receive my anger.

I can be angry at them in my thoughts all day long.

The person I'm actually hurting is myself, because I'm the one who experiences the anger.

And I'm too focused on that to notice genuine opportunities for beneficial change that are all around me because I'm just hyper fixated on what did they do wrong and how can I make them feel like, even if I never actually take action on it, I feel to some extent, compassion for these people.

But at the other hand, I, like, I can't.

I can't help them.

And my role then is just to get away.

Yeah.

Like, you have to put up some sort of barrier in some capacity to actually feel good about what you're doing and what you can do in the future.

I think that's like, the ultimate goal.

Right.

Is like, where.

What buffer can we create?

Are we actually.

What kind of change can we have?

And it's like you at the library, you have that space.

You can enact change.

Like, I have the coffee shop, and those are spaces that individually we can change.

And we have impacted.

Yeah.

And have some narrative that changes things and having that direct impact of the folks that you've helped and, you know, I think that's important and things to hold on to.

And that's something I think with this podcast, too, is we can enlighten, en heighten others who are doing the same thing with the values that they've kind of gotten instilled from hardcore and punk along the way.

Knowing or unknowingly, which I think is exciting.

I think that's probably a good place to put a.

Put a pin in it, too, because the day is getting.

Yeah, the day is getting, sure.

But we've.

We've got.

We've got, I think We've got several episodes here now, but I think.

I think that's what we're gonna accomplish with this and what I'm hoping to accomplish.

And yeah, well, you know, hey, a band's come through town or a new record's coming out, great.

Let's hear about it.

But let's also focus on how have you used your experience through this community and your connections through this community to raise other people up, to keep yourself sane and whole at a time where the world is falling apart?

Common Thread is co hosted by Greg Benoit and Rory Van Grohl, with creative support from Rob Antonucci.

Follow us on Instagram @commonthread.hxcpodcast.

for news and updates, contact us at commonthreadhxcpodcastmail.com Common Thread is a part of the Lunchadore podcast network.

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