What does it mean to prepare students for a world where the tools keep changing? Bill Bass has been wrestling with that question for over two decades. As Innovation Coordinator for Parkway School District, serving 18,000 students across 29 communities, and former president of ISTE, he's seen every wave of edtech come and go. And he's still here, still asking the hard questions.

In this episode of AmpED to 11, Bill joins Brett and Rebecca to talk about the very real tension schools are navigating right now: parents who want AI kept out of classrooms, and students who will step into a world where it's everywhere. He pushes back on the idea that removing technology protects kids, challenges the myth that any of this is neutral, and makes the case for letting students make mistakes with AI while the stakes are still low.

He also gets honest about what edtech gets wrong about schools, how he manages innovation across 29 communities with 29 different opinions, and why digital literacy isn't a destination, it's a moving target.

This is one of the most grounded, clear-eyed conversations we've had on the show. If you work in education or care about where it's heading, this one's for you.

Subscribe to AmpED to 11 for conversations that move education forward.

Bill Bass: We should have learning experiences that explore the environmental impacts of AI, and we should have learning experiences that ensure that critical thinking doesn't get lost along the way because we're, you know, quote-unquote, "having the AI, uh, do all the things for us."

Brett Roer: Welcome, everybody, to the AmpED to 11 podcast. I am joined, as always, by my incredible co-host, Rebecca Bultsma. Rebecca, where are you and how are you?

Brett Roer: I do too.

Brett Roer: And speaking of Bill, we are joined today by the innovation coordinator for Parkway School District in Chesterfield, Missouri, the incredible Bill Bass. How are you doing today, Bill?

Bill Bass: I'm doing great. It's really good to be here. Thanks for having me. It's good to see you all.

Brett Roer: Same here, Bill. Yeah, we've been really fortunate that we just both got back from San Diego.

Brett Roer: That's where we met on a rooftop for a Digital Promise party, I think about four years ago, almost exactly to the day. And we've kept in community, and you've obviously been one of the leading voices in education and innovation and access. And so we are so excited to have this conversation with you today.

Brett Roer: Welcome to the AmpED to 11 podcast.

Bill Bass: And so I'm really-- I, I just feel really fortunate to have the career that I've had.

Brett Roer: Absolutely. And so for our listeners out there, you know, we've been fortunate, Rebecca and I, that we've gotten a chance to obviously learn about this extensive career you have. Here's your chance to-- we appreciate if you can be not humble for a second because you do have many accolades that I do want our listeners to know about, just to frame today's conversation.

Brett Roer: So if you could, maybe share with folks out there what your journey's been in education and some of the different organizations or different places where you've lended your expertise in this field.

Bill Bass: Let's just say that I'm one of the more mature voices in the room sometimes when we, when we all get together. But I-- So taught high school English, taught middle school English for a little while. I became a tech coach, um, because really what happened was I was, I was thrust into a classroom to teach a class called Modern Media at the, in my high school English class.

Bill Bass: And, you know, it wasn't so modern when I got it, when I acquired the, the class. And I thought that we probably had opportunity here to do something different. And it had a bank of computers that were running Windows 98, and so, you know, like I said, it's been a day or two. But in those, in those computers, you know, like, I was just like, "I, I'm gonna have to figure out what to do with these."

Bill Bass: And yeah, that changed a lot of things when I started teaching that class, and I quickly found my place in, in education. Got my master's, became a tech coach, became an instructional coach, and for the last 12 years now, I've been a district administrator responsible for innovation in my district. Along the way, I was able to-- My first-- I, I g- I started getting involved in organizations, and so I became the secondary representative for the National Council of Teachers of English board.

Bill Bass: ISTE ASCD, you know, that, that merger was something that I, I wasn't involved in directly, but I think, you know, like my work kind of set the stage for that, for the ability the, the organization to be ready to do a merger with another organization and still retain the, you know, like kind of what made ISTE, ISTE.

Bill Bass: And so, you know, tried to... Oh, and it was during COVID too. So the fact that we, that ISTE still exists after COVID, you're welcome, is what I would, what I would say to that. It was the CEO and I, Richard Culatta, we would talk almost daily, and it was never good news. It was always something. And so we just...

Bill Bass: And so, so that's... I think those are, those are the highlights, let's say. That's my highlight reel, as it were.

Brett Roer: That's, that's quite an impressive one. And, you know, again, it spans millenniums. It spans, it bridges technology, right? You're talking about you've survived both sides of the pandemic, and you've led through it.

Brett Roer: And like you said, a lot of the innovative changes, especially like with ISTE at the forefront, it sounds like you've really helped navigate that. So I wanna say thank you as someone who's a proud member of ISTE and someone who does a lot of really exciting, innovative projects with them. Thank you for that.

Brett Roer: Rebecca, where do you wanna kick off today?

Rebecca Bultsma: So many things. It's such a, an interesting month for AI, and it sounds like, Bill, you follow it too. I think the stories that are kind of top of mind for me right now, number one is the Claude mythos, uh, slash non-release release. Uh, for our listeners who aren't aware, Claude kind of announced a couple of weeks ago they have an, a new model that is incredibly powerful.

Rebecca Bultsma: Uh, and that's, that kind of, uh, freaks a lot of people out, which kind of leads over to the other thing that we're seeing, Bill. Uh, a real kind of- violent plot twist in how people are feeling about AI right now. So this month alone, uh, there have been attacks on the homes of CEOs of AI companies. Uh, we've had major ousters by public officials in towns and, and cities after they've agreed to data centers, and the communities have, uh, fought back against those things.

Rebecca Bultsma: I'd love to get your read on that and see how far that's filtering down and how and if that's reaching you, and you're noticing any part of that where you sit right now.

Bill Bass: Yeah. I-- It is, it is super interesting where to, just to see the landscape is... 'Cause that's really what I, I, I kind of think of it as this, as this landscape where we have, we have-- I always expect peaks and valleys, right?

Bill Bass: And so we, we, I was part of the team that wrote it initially, and initially it was for 21st century skills. Happily, we revised it twice, then we moved away from 21st century skills as a moniker. But in that, one of the, one of my favorite lines that I, that I quote regularly is that as, as technology and society change, so does what it means to be literate.

Bill Bass: And when I think about, when I think about this specifically, like, as an English teacher, right? I, I see the world through story, I see the world through the, the, um, through, through writing and, and literacy really. And, and literacy can mean a lot of different things, but what it means to be literate in the digital age is shifting bec- and, you know, it's not something that we can kind of pinpoint and say, "If you do these X number of things, you will be literate."

Bill Bass: And it's not, it's not like nobody's ever always just all in, "I'm gonna embrace everything around technology." Like, that's not how, that's not how we roll, and that's fine. But much like a, there's a divide in just our society, we're seeing the, that divide in technology as well, and our usage of technology.

Bill Bass: Impossible, right? And the, you know, like, they, we have this, we have this conversation. But then on the other side, we have, you know, people that are wondering why we're not pushing AI harder. And so in the same community, we have this, this schism between these two groups that is... It's so, it's-- Managing that and trying to, you know, find that happy space in between is, is almost impossible.

Bill Bass: And then, you know, and beyond AI, we're just, you know, we're talking about screen time, we're talking about cell phones, we're talking about the technology that is part of our lives, trying to remove it from our lives in our, in a school setting. And that is, that's troubling for me as someone who has done technology their entire career, right?

Bill Bass: And, and that's great, and I'm, I'm not a proponent for, like, eliminating that. But I'm also not a proponent for saying that just because one set of people doesn't want to use a specific technology, that makes the technology bad, right? And so we're demonizing this thing that has really good things, but it's the intentions that we bring to it, right?

Bill Bass: And so we're, we're trying to create this inauthentic space in a school where the authentic space in real life has that technology, but we're trying to keep it out of our learning spaces. And so, like I understand the-- I understand it, right? I understand why. I just-- I have a hard time with that because I don't think that we're preparing kids to-- We should be wary.

Bill Bass: And so I really, I do, I do worry about what I would consider a tech backlash because I think we're creating inauthentic spaces even under the guise that kids will learn better. And we don't, we don't actually know because a lot of times-- I mean, there's, there's plenty of research on both sides, and there's plenty of things that say if we, if we create experiences for kids that are inauthentic and that don't-- that aren't relevant for their life and all that, then they're not going to be interested in learning those things.

Brett Roer: I just wanna first say, like for our listeners out there, so Rebecca, myself, Bill, you know, like we've been in numerous districts across the country, and many people express what Bill's saying, but like they don't have the privilege of someone like a Bill or myself or Rebecca that we get to actually engage with school districts nationwide, in Rebecca's case, even more.

Brett Roer: And so first, I just wanna say like thank you for sharing that narrative because, one, we're gonna talk more about your emerging technologies guidelines that you're providing, but you're the past president of ISTE. You're on the cutting edge of innovation, and that story you just told is the story we hear everywhere.

Brett Roer: And so maybe for our listeners, could you kinda share, could you share what this emerging technologies guidance you're providing is? Kind of where your community was, 'cause I'm making an assumption based on your previous work that you're building upon things you've done pre-generative AI becoming ubiquitous in schools.

Brett Roer: And then how do you hold space for the fact that people are trying to grapple with this? And so how do you ensure maybe you have a vocal minority, that their voice is heard, it's accounted for, and yet you're still trying to move forward with emerging technology for the best use of, you know, the overwhelming majority of your students?

Brett Roer: Lotta questions there, but we'll let you unpack it. And then Rebecca, I apologize, we're gonna turn it back over to you after this.

Bill Bass: As I was talking to, you know, like, different folks that are in, in companies or they are thinking through the lens of, you know, as an edtech provider or something like that, there were amazing amount of people, not everyone, obviously, right? Painting with a very broad brush here. But the fact is is that there are, there are, there's a tone deafness when it comes to, in, in some cases, not all, obviously, right?

Bill Bass: So one of the things that we did, to get to your actual question , uh, one of the things that we did was a number of years ago, you know, we had been-- We've always been a tech-rich school. We were doing a lot of, a lot of people moved over to kind of a, a one-to-one environment during COVID out of necessity, right?

Bill Bass: We had been-- We're 11 years into our, we call it our access program, because we're not, it's not just ac- it's not just about the device, right? The device I'm less concerned with, but it's about devices, it's about content, and it's about experiences. And we worked, we wanted to provide access to those three things.

Bill Bass: It's not an, it's-- there's not an end finish line here. And then we, you know, we work to create access to digital content. So which means that, okay, so you have device, you have the internet, now you have to have content in order to engage with, and, and not just content, but experiences further. So we want the kids to have all of these things, all access to each one of these things in order to become, you know, citizens of the digital age, was, is kinda how we approached this.

Bill Bass: From there, we recognized that, that we needed to better document wh- how we make decisions, right? And so it's not just that, you know, somebody makes a request, and it's at the whim of Bill on any given day. Like, we, we needed to do better than that. We needed to actually have, these are why we make the decisions we are making.

Bill Bass: Um, basically we, you know, we wanted to be-- we ha- only have five. And so when that was-- when we were making those, it was so that we would, we would be able to say, "These are the things, these are our rationale for why we do these things." And so one of the things, I'll just, I'll just read them to you real quick, and there's only five.

Bill Bass: The first one was we wanna create a, a balanced approach to student learning, right? And so, and this goes, gi- this gets to that screen time, this gets to that, you know, technology backlash. We don't want kids to be 100%. The least interesting thing a kid can do on a computer is flick through slides and, you know, answer some questions.

Bill Bass: 'Cause we're not designing, we're not supporting them for being in school. So that was our first commitment. Our second one is to enhance students' educational experiences through the use of technology. Very similar to the first, right? But it, it does, it does lend itself to the fact that we want kids To-- We don't want them to just, you know, w-word process the entire time, right?

Bill Bass: There are, there are opportunities for creation, there's opportunities for exploration, simulation. I mean, there's so many ways that they can approach this. But we had to commit to our community that we were going to use technology in really intentional ways, right? And so these digital tools that we adopt, we adopt them because we only ha-- we know that we only have so much time in front of kids, and we have to use that time really intentionally, right?

Bill Bass: Because they're gonna make mistakes, it's just who's gonna be able to support them on the other side of that, on the other side of those mistakes? The third one-- fourth one is support students in their digital wellness, which I think is something that we continue to think about. We don't want kids addicted to screens and things like that.

Bill Bass: And so, you know, going back to, like I said before, device, internet, content, experiences. All four of those things we need to have opportunities for all of our kids, not just the ones who can, you know, maybe afford to go to a camp or afford to, you know, have those experiences outside of school. We wanna bring those and give them the opportunities to have them inside of school.

Bill Bass: But I haven't found it yet. So these are the, the, you know, these tech commitments really guide us. And so we put those in place a few years ago, and that has led us now To, you know, the state of Missouri has a-- the school board association has a AI-- an AI policy that they are asking us to adopt. Um, and not asking, but suggesting.

Bill Bass: Let's say it that way instead. And I read it, and it's fine, except that, you know, board policies are-- take a lot to get across the line, right? And so this is, this is not going to be the la-- AI, you know, and AI as we currently define it, is not going to be the last technology that is disruptive in schools.

Bill Bass: With an emerging technologies policy, we can say, "We wanna ke-keep kids safe. We wanna ensure that they understand the technology and how to use it if it is in fact safe, and the risks that go along with that. We wanna support our teachers with professional development so that they understand how to utilize this with kids, if it's appropriate to utilize with kids.

Bill Bass: And so that has been, that has been our approach so far, and it is, it has been well-received because it's not about the technology per se, it's-- or the, the platform or whatever. It is about how we approach our work through our technologies, and I think that shifts the conversation a little bit and makes it less scary too.

Bill Bass: And so academic integrity, we already have a policy for that. We don't need a new one because AI has everybody scared of AI, we need to understand how that, we need to translate it. We need to translate our academic integrity policy into an artificial intelligence space.

Rebecca Bultsma: That's fantastic. That's actually, as like someone who does a lot in, uh, governance with AI and ethics, that's exactly what I recommend, uh, as well, having these more policy-level things that no matter how the technology changes, you don't have to change these things.

Rebecca Bultsma: So I think you're doing good things, and I hope other districts, uh, sit up and pay attention to doing it that way because I think that's the way ultimately that's going to work best in the future.

Bill Bass: Well, thanks. Yeah. I, I think it-- So let me, let me add one piece to that. I think that the, you know, as, as I've talked to districts and, you know, I, and the, the policy pieces, there were so many...

Bill Bass: I re- I remember two, three, two years ago, three years ago, I was, I was at an event, and there was a, a superintendent there that was very, very proud of their policy that they just got through the board. And I was like, "Wow, okay. I mean, that's great. I-- Do your thing. If that's what your community needs, then, then that's what you should do, right?"

Bill Bass: And that's a really important piece to unpack and make sure that you're being intentional about it and not just reacting because you got a nasty gram email from somebody who is irritated with you.

Rebecca Bultsma: I think if you can build those commitments too on top of your existing mission, vision, and values that you have as a district, it's easy to point and say, well, we did this because these are our values.

Rebecca Bultsma: And I think being able to articulate the why behind all of these things ultimately is what matters and helps get people on board when they maybe don't understand or they've been influenced a certain way by media or friends or community or a little piece of something that they picked up that they don't fully understand, especially in the community, which speaks more to that kind of level of understanding that people have and don't have, which taking another step back, I think fundamentally the fact that we've rolled it all into this big AI heading, the AI that powers your Netflix is the same thing we're talking about with data centers is the same thing we're talking about with deep fakes.

Bill Bass: Yeah, I would agree. And mostly because this is what I hear. I talked with a parent recently that doesn't want her kids on their Chromebooks. And then in the very next sentence asked why we're not teaching them to type effectively. And so I understand the sentiment, but it is because of AI. And we look at one of the things that I hear almost every other day is that I have students who don't want us to turn off AI because of the environmental impacts.

Bill Bass: And we should have learning experiences that ensure that critical thinking doesn't get lost along the way because we're, you know, quote unquote, having the AI do all the things for us.

Brett Roer: Bill, I'd love to ask if this is something that's on your roadmap. You said a couple things, and you know, you're pointing out the, the knots that you as a leader of innovation are get, you know, can get yourself into when a parent says two things that seem di- uh, you know, like opposed to each other.

Brett Roer: Do you align it to any of like the frameworks like ISTE's, you know, you know, like attributes of an AI-ready graduate? And how do you explain that to a parent? Like you said, like there is a time and place to learn typing, so like this idea of like, I don't like this term, but this is what a lot of people are using, like good screen time and like explaining why that is the be- if your goal is to deeper learn or something, that's the best use of a screen.

Brett Roer: That is why you would want to use a screen in this case versus what you mentioned before about like just having kids, you know, basically just turn worksheets into things that they could just do online or like a PowerPoint. How do you help people see that that might just not have the understanding and only are getting bits and pieces of the narrative?

Bill Bass: And so rather than focus on what we try to do is rather than focus on what we can't do, right, we try to focus on the opportunities that exist. And so we can lament, you know, some of the, the decisions that are made that are outside of our control. But- That doesn't necessarily, that doesn't necessarily matter, right?

Bill Bass: Because they're outside of our control. It's not something that we can do. But what we can do is we can be sure that we're talking, we're, we're celebrating the good things that are coming. We're s- we're ensuring that our, you know, as, as we, as we work with parents, and as we have student focus groups, and as we do parent surveys, and as we engage our community in different ways, what we can do is we can take those opportunities to, to educate and to, and not try to convince.

Bill Bass: And, you know, a lot of times in my position, people ask me, you know, like, "Well, I don't understand what your title even means." Which, I mean, it's made up, let's be clear. But when we are-- Like what I try to do is set the stage where innovation can occur, right? And create a culture of innovation throughout our organization.

Bill Bass: And so if you, if you're not down, that's fine. And so, and I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna make you, I'm not the, I'm not gonna be your, the AI police or anything like that, but I am going to support you in those things that you're trying to do because I want that to trickle down to our students, right? In li- in, in lots of different ways.

Bill Bass: And so yeah, we, you know, like when we did our, you know, I mean, call it what you want, Portrait of a Graduate, we have Vision for a Learner. Like that's, everybody is calling their thing their thing, right? But it's essentially Portrait of a Graduate work. And what I liken that to, and this is, this is where we tied all of our AI stuff to, was our Vision for a Learner.

Bill Bass: Just the, the-- And this is, this is another thing that I learned along the way, is when the, the ISTE Standards were created, like it was very much, "This is what, what we want kids to do with technology," right? We want them to be able to word process. We want them to be able to edit images and things like that.

Bill Bass: We want them to be digital citizens. You know, like there's, there's things that we want them to be. That's what Vision for Our Learner is. We want them to be these things, and in order for them to be these things, here's how that translates down into using the tools or the approach that AI comes with in order to get kids into this space.

Bill Bass: And if we want kids to be these things, our adults better be these things, right? If we want them to be learners, w- our adults have to be learners, and we have to have culture around each one of these pillars that we stand on. And, and so that, that be- that has become our approach is to tie it to something that we are already doing, and we've already, we've already said, "This is what we're doing."

Bill Bass: That's student agency, being able to decide when and why and how to use these tools. That is, that is bringing yourself to the technology, not utilizing the technology as somebody else designed it for you.

Brett Roer: That, that-- These are just-- This is so helpful because, again, we do a lot of this work, and, and you said at the start this idea of like you've learned a lot of things about leadership, and ultimately that's really what you're describing is how do you lead people through change?

Brett Roer: So I just wanna thank you again for, like, leading people through this narrative. I do wanna give you a chance, Bill. You know, you're, you're traveling the country. You've done many things in your career, but podcast host I don't think I heard you say is one of them. So we're gonna turn the tables right now.

Brett Roer: We're gonna give you a chance to ask Rebecca and I. You get, you get full reign of the Amped 11 podcast right now. What's a question or a burning question you'd like to ask us that we might be able to share, you know, and answer for you and our listeners?

Bill Bass: Yeah, yeah. Well, uh, so I appreciate that. And one of the things-- It's actually really funny that you say.

Bill Bass: It was, it was awesome. It was hard, but it was awesome. So when-- So here, here would be my, my question for the two of you. When we-- When-- A lot of times, and I, and I've said it myself, is that, you know, we talk about... For the longest time, I ta- I used to talk about how I want kids to consume less and create more, right?

Bill Bass: So everything that you consume influences something you create. And so as you are, as you are thinking and, and seeing people out in the world and the schools that you work with and the, and the leaders that you interact with, what are the things that-- what are the things you're excited about that people are creating out in the world right now?

Bill Bass: Specific, you know-- And whether that is inside of, inside of a school or just, you know, like, kids, kids or adults in education. Like, what are the, what are the things that you, you think are exciting that are going to, that people are creating in, in our space these days?

Rebecca Bultsma: I personally am loving the workflows and the agents and the tools people are building that alleviate their pain points.

Rebecca Bultsma: Um, Andre Ca-Karpathy, who is like one of the most brilliant foundational minds in AI, posted a couple of weeks ago about how he uses AI and Obsidian to build his own personal wiki, uh, which I took and I built, and it takes everything I've ever bookmarked, uh, or read or everything, and it maps it into a giant wiki and maps those nodes all onto each other.

Rebecca Bultsma: Um, and having agents that do things that don't burn me out by the time I get to the actual work, so that I feel more, more fresh, right? Like agents that will go out and find the things that I need that I would find interesting, and surfacing things that align with things that I, I agree with or, or want to dig deeper into.

Rebecca Bultsma: On a smaller level, just seeing, uh, teachers. There's a, a woman named Kelsey from Ohio who, she just built like a gem, a Google gem, that alleviated her biggest pain point, uh, which was sub plans. And she has a gem now that anytime she needs a sub plan, it generates it for her in under 30 seconds. And before-- And I've talked to so many teachers who are like, "You know what?

Rebecca Bultsma: Now seeing that solutions focus and a-the actual ability to solve those problems, which I hope leads to people enjoying what they do more or freeing them up. It does certainly for me. Uh, things that used to take me till 1:00 PM can now be done in 30 minutes by an agent before 8:00 AM. They get me set up s-for success.

Rebecca Bultsma: So I think that would be my answer in a really broad way.

Brett Roer: And I totally get that 'cause if you've spent your whole career trying to fight against these like barriers that just have seemed immovable, it's hard to shift your mindset and get unstuck. But I'm, I'm seeing that more and more, like Rebecca's case of like start with an actual problem. Don't expect AI to provide solutions to problems that don't exist or problems you can't address or identify.

Brett Roer: But once you've identified a problem, that's where a tool like AI can start to shift mindset and show you there's ways to just repurpose or reconfigure the resources and strategies you have to try to solve something. So that's one, is when people get the chance, and I, I would love to learn how to do this at better scale, but a lot of time it really is just giving people either a walkthrough or sitting with them and just helping them unlock something, and then they get it.

Brett Roer: And to see that they can do it now in a way that they might be a veteran teacher or a new teacher and just they have another tool in their toolbox that makes them feel just good about going in and differentiating learning or making it more engaging or knowing how their students really wanna learn, that's been probably the most fun.

Brett Roer: And I've seen so many teachers, educators, leaders say some version of like, "It's fun again to teach. It's fun again to create." And I think that post-COVID, as you mentioned before, is probably what people needed. And even though there are a lot of pain points with like teacher exodus and retention and hiring, for those people that see that, it's like a breath of fresh air that we just wanna keep giving to more and more people.

Bill Bass: That's great. That's great. And I think, you know, I-- you both brought up different but interesting points where it is, you know, it's, it's really about empowerment of people who, this is stronger than I mean, but in some ways had lost some of the hope that they had and the, and Brett, I think you said it, joy in, in their work and in, you know, fi- in figuring out their workflows or, you know, all the things that we hate to do.

Bill Bass: Just like bringing all of that together, um, it really, it really is empowering. And that's, you know, to To shift the focus back to me for a moment, that's what we wanna do with kids, right? We wanna empower them, and that's what we try to do every day as we're creating these opportunities around technology.

Rebecca Bultsma: Great answer. That's what we like to hear. I think we're all saying the same things. Uh, yeah, I don't think the goal is to just teach kids to use AI for everything. It's to teach them the foundational responsibilities that they have and that digital literacy based on those commitments, uh, and then let them be creative from within those boundaries.

Rebecca Bultsma: Brett, you love to ask our final question. Why don't you go ahead and take it home?

Brett Roer: I shall. Thank you. So Bill, you know, you've already shared so much about the organizations you're in community with, you know, the leadership you've, you've provided to some. And so we'd just like to use this last question to really get broad again of, for folks out there, right, what are either some of the organizations that they should start to explore more, um, you know, especially our educators, our innovators, our leaders.

Bill Bass: I try to think-- When I, when I, when I look at questions like this, I try to think about it in terms of, you know, yeah, we have voices that are out in the world, right? And so organizations, obviously, like one of the organizations that I find value in is ISTE. And I also find value in NCTE. They are doing some really good things right now when it comes to AI.

Bill Bass: And as an English organization, it's, it's an interesting space for them to be in because, you know, a lot of, a lot of the pushback has come from English teachers, really. And so they're, they're really trying to think differently about it. But, you know, like we have AI4EDU, and we have Cosine, and we have Digital Promise, and we have-- There was a, there was a project that I was a part of not too long ago that was called Engage AI that, you know, like there...

Bill Bass: You should listen to the, the people who con- who you connect with. You should listen to the folks that will help you serve your community, help you serve your students. You should listen to the folks that aren't necessarily the people who are keynoting everywhere. Um, you should listen to the people that are in classrooms right now talking about and working with AI on any given day that are going to-- Because, because they understand what it actually means.

Bill Bass: And, you know, in a lot of cases, hey, that take, that takes me out of the running here, right? And that's, and that's perfectly fine because I haven't been in a classroom for many years, right? As a, as a daily practice. I'm in classrooms all the time, but I'm not the one who is in the classroom with kids on any given day.

Bill Bass: Because I think that's where, those are the folks that live it every single day, and who are the ones that if we're not listening to them, then shame on us, really, because we have not, we have not empowered them, or we don't value that voice as much as we value the person who is up on stage or who, you know, has written 12 books or, you know, whatever that may be.

Brett Roer: Well said. No notes. Thank you. Thank you, Bill, for everything, right? You've really shared with our listeners how they can be a leader in this challenging time, but also lead with, you know, inspiration and, and, uh, the right values at the front. And those are great things. You know, we're all out of the running based on what you said, but so important that you're in community with educators on the front lines doing this important work.

Brett Roer: So just wanna thank you again for everything you do in the field of education and innovation. If people wanna learn more about how they can learn more from you, is there anywhere they could go and check out at this time?

Bill Bass: Um, I think, you know, I'm, I'm on, I'm on l- I'm in lots of spaces. Just billbass.tech is my site.

Brett Roer: All right. So look for Bill Bass wherever you find people on the internet or in the world, sounds like. Thank you so much, Bill. Thank you to all our listeners. Make sure you make today a Jumbo Cannoli Day, meaning live life to the fullest.

Brett Roer: And, uh, thank you again for listening to the AmpED to 11 podcast. Everyone have a wonderful day.