Who says AI doesn’t belong at the holiday table?

In this festive, future-forward “11 Days of Xmas” special episode of AmpED to 11, hosts Brett Roer and Rebecca Bultsma are joined by Amplify & Elevate Innovation insiders Serena Reynolds and Versha Munshi-South for an unfiltered round of rapid-fire AI questions—plus some unexpected hot takes, tech confessions, and painfully relatable truths from parents, former principals, and teenage kids alike.

It’s part AI year-in-review, part prediction party, and part support group for educators on the front lines of the AI evolution. Buckle up.

From Versha’s candid insights on leading innovation while parenting “AI-resistant” teens, to Serena’s Notion automations that would make any productivity nerd weak in the knees, to Rebecca’s bold new use of Gmail agents that literally email her strategic summaries while she’s sleeping—this episode is for anyone thinking: How do I even keep up anymore?

(Wondering what to ditch in 2025? Rebecca serves up the ultimate poetic rant on why AI detectors must die.)

They dive into:

1. Bold visions for AI in 2026—staffing models, literacy requirements, and teen-built study agents
2. Why “the Christmas tree effect” of edtech overload has to stop
3. Rebecca’s mind-blowing automations using Google Workspace agents
4. Equity warning: How kids with access are using AI to personalize learning—and who’s being left behind
5. Why “horizontal” AI learning won’t cut it—and how to teach for vertical transformation instead
6. “When is enough enough?”—The AI spiral we’re all trapped in (and how to get out)

Plus, get the inside scoop on the game that sparked 40,000+ students to weigh in on AI—and why every school leader should be playing it in 2026.

Brett, Rebecca, Serena, and Versha bring the insight, humor, and raw honesty that make AmpED to 11 more than just a podcast. It’s a lifeline for bold educators navigating this messy, magical age of AI.

Tune in, subscribe, and share if you’re ready to turn up the volume on what’s possible in education.

Brett Roer: Not this vague. AI is good or bad. Just like when is it appropriate, when is it not appropriate? Why and how? And this way people can finally use it, how it's hopefully meant to be intended

Versha Munshi-South: as a school leader.

Versha Munshi-South: Talk to teenagers as much as possible. Generally as a rule. They're brilliant. They, they can, they'll be honest. If you give them space, they'll also tell you absolutely nothing. If you don't.

Brett Roer: Serena, how are you today?

Serena Reynolds: I'm good, thank you, Brett. Excited for this one.

Brett Roer: I'm sure you are. This is really a great idea you had. Do you wanna introduce our incredible podcast host, Serena? Would you wanna, I'll

Serena Reynolds: co-host a lovely Rebecca,

Brett Roer: yeah, and our other special guest today. Who else has joined us today?

Brett Roer: Serena,

Serena Reynolds: we have Versha who is always behind the scenes and helping us with everything that we do here at AmpED to 11, and obviously with you at Amplify and Elevate innovation.

Brett Roer: Versha, would you like telling our millions of listeners at home who you are? I believe this is your podcast debut on the AmpED to 11 podcast.

Brett Roer: Is that correct?

Versha Munshi-South: It is. Longtime listener, first time guest.

Brett Roer: That is true. She has often told us about the podcast. She is a super fan, but first let the world know, you know, one whose birthday is it today. That's really important because that shout out outta the way.

Versha Munshi-South: Um, it's my daughter's birthday, Zuzu, she's 15 today.

Versha Munshi-South: So happy birthday, Zuzu.

Versha Munshi-South: Yeah. Uh, well, thank you for introducing me. I'm Versha Munshi-South. I'm the chief of staff at Amplify and Elevate Innovation.

Versha Munshi-South: When I'm not on this podcast and not doing that job, I'm a mom to two teenagers. They're 15 today and 17. Um, so we're entering that college journey right now before joining Bread at am. Amplify and Elevate Innovation. I was a school teacher, I was a coach, I was a school principal, and I spent about nine years as a, as a leadership coach at an organization called TNTP that does curriculum implementation, leadership development, you know, science and reading rollout.

Versha Munshi-South: Basically everything in education.

Brett Roer: You seem like you're well versed for this incredible AmpED to 11 special twist question session courtesy of Serena Reynolds. You feeling good

Versha Munshi-South: nervous?

Brett Roer: Rebecca, you feeling good?

Rebecca Bultsma: I had no idea, so I'm just still processing.

Brett Roer: Yeah, that's true. It does say on the 12th day of Christmas. Mm-hmm. But I just, yeah, you're right. I don't know why I thought it was leading up to, like, I have an advent calendar in our house leading up to Christmas. I guess you do advent on Christmas then the 12 days.

Brett Roer: Is that how it works for you?

Serena Reynolds: I believe so. I'm not an expert in this field, but I did look it up and that's, that's what I found out from chat GPT. Obviously we have advent leaving up to to Christmas, which is not religious, and then you have the top eighth of Christmas, post Christmas, so it's just, uh, English education, I think coming through there.

Rebecca Bultsma: As somebody who was educated for several years of primary school in England, I'm sure you're right.

Serena Reynolds: So shall we

Serena Reynolds: kick

Rebecca Bultsma: Well, I'll start. I thought about this a little bit and I think that we will start to see some schools or some systems start to have AI literacy as a core graduation requirement. Or there'll be a dedicated class, or it will be a dedicated section of standardized exams. Something that will. Treat AI literacy as like a foundational skill like math or reading, uh, that then you can take as a competency to get hired at a job, right?

Rebecca Bultsma: That's one of my predictions.

Serena Reynolds: Do you see that spreading across all the ages or just older, younger,

Rebecca Bultsma: I hope just older. I hope that digital literacy continues to be a priority at all levels, because I think that digital literacy component of why we don't trust everything we see online and how we protect our identities and our data, I think that needs to start really, really young.

Rebecca Bultsma: My personal feeling is that I don't think, um, students should be using, uh, at least free open AI tools. Until the later years of high school

Serena Reynolds: Love that. So my next question is your current favorite AI tool. What is it and what do you actually use?

Versha Munshi-South: Um, so that's been great for housing all of their internal documents.

Brett Roer: I recently used Nano Banana Pro and I've been using it for a little while. Like I know it hasn't come out for that long, but I have gone down so many rabbit holes and just made so many fun. Exciting graphics for like keynotes and presentations.

Rebecca Bultsma: Yeah. At the time of this recording, actually chat, GPT just launched an upgraded image generator yesterday. Uh, that rivals in many ways, I think nano bananas, still a little bit better at taking things like large amounts of data and turning it into a, an infographic. But I, I guess I'll stay on the Google train too.

Rebecca Bultsma: I would say my current favorite AI tool is actually the agents that are in Google Workspace now that make automation within your full Google ecosystem. Super easy. So I play with those all the time and I've had it streamline a bunch of my systems and my processes and it saves me a lot of time. And I, I love it.

Brett Roer: Yeah. Hey, could we one day do a podcast episode? Like for example, Rebecca, could you show people how you do all that?

Rebecca Bultsma: Yeah, I actually recorded a few YouTube videos about it just to show people.

Rebecca Bultsma: Yeah, it's, it's actually amazing. It's probably the biggest actual, measurable time saver that I've had with ai. Mm-hmm. So, for example, like when someone contacts me on my website, automatically in the background, it creates a folder for them automatically with a unique id. And then. Summarizes the entire inquiry, researches the organization, puts it in a file inside that folder, summarizes it, sends it to me as an email, and then adds a line on my spreadsheet where I track all of my clients.

Rebecca Bultsma: And I don't do anything except for read the email. When it comes in,

Serena Reynolds: It, it does absolutely everything. And then when the recording's done, it will actually take that recording, upload it, and start analyzing some of the data inside of it.

Rebecca Bultsma: What you would like, Brett, is that at the end of a call that's been recorded, it takes the Gemini recording it automatically extracts all of the tasks and assigns them to me, sends me anum, and assigns them to me as tasks.

Rebecca Bultsma: And, uh. We'll automatically categorize that, call in with the right client and send me reminders. You know, it'll do all the things in the background that we've always wanted, that you could do through Zapier and all these automation tools. But there was always so much risk of it breaking or sending your personal data other places and paying a whole other subscription fee and learning a whole new platform.

Rebecca Bultsma: So it's, it's just been probably one of the most useful tools I've found so far.

Rebecca Bultsma: We always talk about how AI can save you time, but it's really hard to measure. And this is where I finally notice, okay, now I don't have to go in and rename all these files.

Rebecca Bultsma: I have a lot of research that I read. All I have to do now is drop A PDF. I've read into a folder, and automatically it creates a full directory summary of the key points, a line in a spreadsheet for me, and renames the folder and re files it for me in a way that makes sense. And I just know how long that usually takes me.

Versha Munshi-South: Well, mine's a little different since I, I came from a role where we weren't allowed to use AI at all. So in, I've gone, I literally went from one day, no AI at all.

Versha Munshi-South: Those rules were actually very clear, um, to working, working with Brad and working to amplify and elevate innovation where. We're using quite a bit rather than, that's essential to all the work that we're doing. So everything is, is making my jaw drop. And it, I could say that. Um, but I, you know, when I think about time saving and I think about the time that I would spend, for example, creating like a presentation for clients, how, and, and pulling from conversations, pulling from the previous presentation, pulling from the contract, what do we say we're going to deliver?

Versha Munshi-South: Being able to pull from multiple sources and, and then really focus on the people and, and what is it that, how to connect with them in, in real life. That's, that's made my jaw drop and, and made me feel like I, I do have some time back.

Brett Roer: GPT released its own browser. I think it was called Atlas. You can turn on agent mode. So one, like, I think the way they did it was really well done in terms of like, your screen sparkles a little bit. Actually Serena taught me this and it didn't work the first time. Like she was explaining it and she's like, oh no, it's gonna look, no, you should have this happen.

Brett Roer: And then, and then it did like the second time I tried it and it legitimately like is telling you what it's doing in real time. Obviously you're not doing anything, you're assigning it a task or something. And then it, it's doing it and it says like, you know, you've turned on agent mode, like you're giving control to essentially this, this device.

Rebecca Bultsma: The same thing I always say, which is AI detectors like I can't even tell you. Still popping up in my feed, especially since it's like exam season and submit your final essay season. I'm seeing stories about people. My own son is calling me in a panic saying, I wrote this whole paragraph and it's still getting flagged and I've tried to rewrite it 10 times and it's still getting flagged.

Rebecca Bultsma: At the end, I throw 'em through an AI detector. Sometimes they come back like 44%, 44 sections. And I'm like, well, I know AI didn't write them. And if they wanna fight with me about it, we'll fight about it because I know these tools don't work. I know I wrote this and you can't prove otherwise we shouldn't be using these tools.

Rebecca Bultsma: We shouldn't may be using these power dynamics of students and teachers to tell kids whether or not they wrote something. Thank you for coming to my TED Talk. That's

Brett Roer: why they come, that's why they come. The millions of listeners first. What do you think?

Versha Munshi-South: There's great products, right? There's lots of, there's lots of great tools.

Versha Munshi-South: So I think what we need to leave behind, I just actually heard it called the Christmas tree, uh, method of, you know, there's always one more ornament. I just need this like one special ornament. Oh, this one is really different. So I need to add that ornament. We're overloading that Christmas tree is, is schools and teachers, right?

Versha Munshi-South: And the ornaments are, are all the tools. And I think we need to leave behind like the new shiny thing and really think about what's coherent and makes for a good student experience and a good teacher experience for teachers aren't so overwhelmed by the passwords and the platforms and the new thing and actually can go deeper and get good at the thing that we want them to focus on.

Serena Reynolds: Whether that's written by AI or whether that's written. When I say written by ai, I mean it's their strategy that they, for them to be marked on ideas and theory and strategy and that move forward.

Brett Roer: So when we talk about what age is the right age for AI literacy or any of these things, um, you know, as Rebecca said, like you can have different opinions about when it's happening, but like talking to your community around specific use cases of ai, how it would be applied, and then giving people that kind of just guidance and guardrails that match your community values, right?

Brett Roer: As long as it's obviously safe and ethical, it comes down to what you all wanna do with it. But not this vague. AI is good or bad, just like when is it appropriate, when is it not appropriate? Why and how? And this way people can finally use it, how it's hopefully meant to be intended. That would be amazing.

Rebecca Bultsma: Mine is a little more, not abstract, but I've been doing a lot of reading lately about like horizontal and vertical development and how horizontal development is just like adding existing skills and tools, right? Like so telling people, here's how you use this AI tool. Here's how you use this AI tool.

Rebecca Bultsma: It's like adding new apps to an iPhone. Vertical development is more like upgrading the whole operating system and changing how you think about things and how you operate. And I think that. I'm gonna change a little bit the way I talk about these things and still give people like, baseline, here's how we upgrade your horizontal understanding of what AI is and how it works in tools that are useful, but focus a lot more on helping people build capacity and seeing the bigger picture and more of the whys behind things.

Rebecca Bultsma: Instead of just trying to add more apps to an iPhone that maybe can't, just, the whole thing needs to be upgraded and then everything will make a lot more sense. So

Brett Roer: that's what I've been thinking about. Yeah, I, um, first I wanna say like, I know we say this a lot. We probably should say it more like. The amount of wisdom that I gained from co-hosting this podcast with you, Rebecca, is incredible.

Brett Roer: And like when you're like, I was just reading this thing. I'm like, I don't know how you do that. So I just wanna shout out like you, for your, for actually doing research. Like, you obviously can explain things really well, but like you're always constantly rooting in research. So I appreciate that Sia and I had the pleasure of being in a school district in New York on Friday.

Brett Roer: And so she had this, it was rooted in a really great thing. She uses ai, she thinks it makes her lessons better. She thinks it makes her a better teacher. But there's that idea of like, but because of how much power you can have and how it can help you so much. She finds herself spending more time sometimes, like just trying to refine it to the point where it's quote unquote perfect and there's no such thing as perfect.

Brett Roer: And so we talked about like, how do you build an ai, um, professional development about like, and I really hope someone on this podcast may, Rebecca, um, makes one called like, when is Enough? Enough? Like, how do you get the best value out of ai? And then like, leave. That's, I think that's a resolution I have.

Brett Roer: And now all of a sudden it's like, yeah, it's the middle of the night. And I'm like, okay, I, nah, we're not done yet. So that's my resolution.

Rebecca Bultsma: You know what, that's part of kind of a strategy that the AI companies employ. It's called prompt baiting. And we're kind of used to it because at the end of every interaction we have, it's like, well now do you wanna do this?

Rebecca Bultsma: Well, now do you wanna do this? And so they're not helping with that. But one thing, I have the same problem, Brett, like I'm like, edit it again. Edit it again, edit it again. And I finally had to add a custom instruction saying, listen, I spiral on this stuff a lot. I could go forever. And I never know when enough is enough.

Rebecca Bultsma: And I find that very, very helpful just using AI to help with that part of it. Because I think that's the hardest thing is that you can go on forever. You can go down rabbit holes. Forever and it will always find something to change because that's its job. It's optimized for engagement to keep you interacting for as long as possible and it's doing what it's optimized to do.

Rebecca Bultsma: And I find the exact same thing, Brett. I know I'm not alone and I think most people probably do it. So it doesn't save you time. You end up spending way longer than if you would've just done something and moved on with your life. Right. That's a great point. Bertha, do you notice anything like that?

Versha Munshi-South: Well, from the same visit, you know, I've been thinking about, we, Brett and I have been visiting a couple of more affluent schools.

Versha Munshi-South: You know, that's where you can really see sort of an equity divide. And I've seen it with my own kids at home too, where I've been like, there are all these great things you could use with, you know, use AI for. And they're like, no, AI is cheating and or AI is bad for the environment, so I'm not, right. So there's, there's lots of different teenage perspectives that are some shared develop perspectives.

Versha Munshi-South: You know, teachers don't wanna assign as much to do at home because, because of ai. Um, but that use for studying, I think, can really make the difference for students who can personalize the way that they learn and things like that. Some kids have figured it out and some haven't. And I think that, um, more need to have that access.

Rebecca Bultsma: Totally. And I think that extends to adults too, right? Like the teachers who have figured out how to use it effectively versus the teachers that don't. And then the teachers who haven't had the opportunity yet to figure it out or haven't had access to necessarily the same tools or training, they're burning out even more.

Rebecca Bultsma: Or you know, like I think it's just at every level, and I don't think it's new to this, I think we find that at every layer of every technology, right? People who know how to leverage research libraries have better access to information than people who don't. So I don't even know if it's exclusive to ai, it doesn't make it right.

Rebecca Bultsma: But, um, this is where I kind of always go back to the fact that these tools are free and there's nothing stopping anybody from figuring this out. Really. Like if you're just waiting around for, uh, someone to come and give your district a PD and you refuse to sort of take initiative on your own, then like there's no reason.

Rebecca Bultsma: But everyone has different levels of time and expertise and capability. For sure.

Rebecca Bultsma: So I would just go to the list of this podcast that you're already listening to. Find those names, follow them on LinkedIn. That's my answer.

Brett Roer: Uh, you're gonna be Prime Minister of Canada one day with those kind of political takes. That was very well done. Wow. Yeah, I, I, maybe not individuals. Let's, let's not, let's not name names, but here's the kind of people that I've been seeing.

Brett Roer: And I'll also say students, right? There's been, who have done a really great job of articulating like, this is a challenge that my community's facing. This is a way I'm starting to bring technology in. I'm starting to get people excited about how to solve this. So like, uh, this, this year I was really fortunate that I got to, I was selected to be, uh, for the US Department of Education.

Brett Roer: They had this really cool CTE challenge, how you could use AI to solve challenges in your community and these students from around the country. Like had very specific ways they wanted to either upskill or improve, uh, waste. So there are students who like wanted to improve safety on school buses. There are students who wanted to help, um, farmers with, uh, improved irrigation and not to waste water.

Brett Roer: And that couldn't have happened pre AI where students could get access to some of this research. They could have interviewed people, but like those next steps, they couldn't have done it as quickly. And then obviously what's great is they have teachers in their lives and they have, um, these industry leaders that they could have like vet this work and see if it was accurate or not.

Brett Roer: So anyway, that was really exciting for me. Those are the people I wanna watch is people who are using AI to solve challenges. Um, like that, that student of the year, I think from time who. It came up with, I forget the application on skin, but it would, it would help you with detecting of skin cancer, which is, you know, obviously one of the largest types of cancer.

Serena Reynolds: Love that. I'm gonna get in before Versha, I'm gonna say you all have to follow Rebecca on social media and you have to listen to AMP two 11 and you have to follow Brat as well as Rebecca on everything because they're amazing and they're on top of their game.

Serena Reynolds: And I learned so much just being in this, in this ecosystem.

Rebecca Bultsma: I learned so much from Brett about who's doing great work and what they're doing. Like I talk in a lot of abstracts of, you can use it like this, you can use it like this, this might be a problem. But Brett is actually great at pointing to the people who are doing the actual work and the actual things and making a difference.

Rebecca Bultsma: And that's what I love because there's people I don't even know I should be following. So thank you for that.

Brett Roer: And, uh, well, you know, let's just keep the compliment train going. And so what's really been great about Versha joining is like, same thing, right? You bring networks and you bring people you trust together and she'll be like, have you met this person?

Brett Roer: So that's been a really also like unique way to think about what are the challenges people are facing. Like as ver mentioned before, with budgets like. That's top of mind for school boards especially.

Rebecca Bultsma: So the next question that we have on our docket is our best advice for educators who are just starting their AI journey.

Rebecca Bultsma: And I actually gave this one quite a bit of thought because Brett, you and I run into people all the time still who are just starting their AI journey for a variety of reasons. Maybe they just have been scared until now or thought it was gonna be beyond their capabilities, uh, or they were against AI and they didn't think it belonged in the classroom.

Rebecca Bultsma: And it's kind of where your old mental model that's always worked for you no longer fits the territory map of what's happening. And it's really disorienting. Students have to sit there all the time. That's where they live. And I think I would just encourage people to be okay sitting in Aporia because.

Rebecca Bultsma: They're not the only one who feels like they don't know what's going on. I feel like that every day. I'm sure the rest of you do too. And so just, I would want people to know my best advice would be it's okay to not have it all figured out and to feel uncomfortable in the not knowing, because that's how most of us feel.

Rebecca Bultsma: And now I know ai. And really it's going to be more of that that, I dunno, that vertical learning where you have to just kind of reframe every day what you think. And my second piece of advice would be like, you don't have to understand everything. Just pick one tool that you like and that's good enough, and find a way that it works for you.

Rebecca Bultsma: And when you feel comfortable with that, try something else. But there are no actual rules. That would be my advice to somebody who is just starting out that it's okay to not know everything.

Brett Roer: Versha, what are your thoughts on that? You've been dealing with a lot of educators lately who are on their AI journey starting point.

Versha Munshi-South: Like, Brett, what do you think is better? Is it chat GPT? Is it Gemini? Is it this? And, and you always give the answer of something along the lines of like, it doesn't really matter, right? Like you, you know, pick something and use it. And you can kind of do the same things in a lot of different settings. Um, so I would say like start, and that coherent experience for kids is so important.

Versha Munshi-South: So as a kid, it's not really gonna help me If you're using Magic School and Chat GPT and Gemini, I mean, maybe if you figured out exactly what you can get from all of those, but. To start, I would say, what, what are people in your school using? What, because then you can really be build community on like what did you fi figure out in magic school?

Versha Munshi-South: And like, let's help each other with that. Let's just start there. Yeah.

Brett Roer: So the analogy I'm using a lot with teachers is. When I show like metacognition of how I'm thinking about it, I'm gonna say, Hey, you and I just got paired up as co-teachers and you are a great teacher, and so am I. And before I can do my job the best, I'm gonna ask you a million really annoying questions to make sure I understand how you teach.

Brett Roer: And what's great about that is teachers re recognize immediately they've done this before. The difference is you might not have to type it in, and the difference is you might be more creative because you can just have a conversation and be present with someone. But the end goal is if you get all of that and then you say like, Hey, before I hit click on this tool again, agnostic of the tool.

Brett Roer: You have the way you taught this lesson last year or like the unit plan or like your last observation or what your principal or superintendent said is the instructional priorities. Since we're just gonna like click a button anyway, why don't we just throw all that in before and see what it does And that's when people see the magic of it.

Brett Roer: Before you said, okay, go off and make that lesson. I'll look at it tomorrow before we make copies. So that be advice on their learning. Serena, take us home.

Serena Reynolds: Wow. I feel like a fraud here because I'm not an educator. Um, but I will share my ex my, my experience with AI and learning about ai. And it's just to stay curious, not to shut the door, not to close your mind.

Serena Reynolds: Listen to what other people are saying, experiment, try, play, and have fun with it. It, it can be absolutely amazing. And, um, life changing.

Brett Roer: But in the first few months, here's some places I'm definitely gonna be, I'm gonna be at FETC in January. An incredible, you know, they have many incredible speakers attended by thousands of educators and leaders. Um, one of the keynotes this year, uh, is Alana Winnick, who has been a guest of the AMP two 11 podcast, who is truly just one of my favorite people to listen and learn from.

Brett Roer: I spent literally an hour looking at their agenda just to see who's speaking there. How excited I got. Just being like, I can't believe that person's coming or I can't believe they got this person, or that topic is so relevant right now. So that's one I would honestly say is just incredible and is a great way to start off.

Brett Roer: And then the one that's I think the largest in terms of attendees and the one that's just incredible, um, to kind of end the school year and really think about what you're gonna do next year, is isti plus A SCD. That's usually held in late June or early July, um, this year. Also, coincidentally it will be held in Orlando, Florida.

Brett Roer: So you know, two opportunities to visit the Sunshine State. The reason I love it is just the scale. You know, you're talking tens of thousands of educators. There are education leaders as well as, you know, technology companies and innovative solutions. But I just love that there's so many educators, people who are going there, you know, usually sent by their district or charter community or whatever, and they just love learning and just.

Brett Roer: So those are ones that I think are just, you cannot miss. And then there are great regional ones like that. Many states in the United States have their equivalent of an isti. In fact, there's one happening in Ohio, I think coming up. Rebecca, you know, anything one about the one that's happening in Ohio this year and maybe anyone who might be speaking there?

Brett Roer: that is one of three major keynote speakers that will be there. Uh, Marlon Styles, who is an AMP two 11 guest and an incredible, uh, educational leader.

Brett Roer: Richard Ada, the CEO of ISD plus ASCD, the organization we just talked about. And then this other person, Rebecca Bultsma, I think it says how you say it, Rebecca Bultsma.

Rebecca Bultsma: I, I think so. I think I've heard of her and I think she will be giving a keynote there as well. Maybe the closing keynote. So if you're in the area, check it out.

Brett Roer: And it's a full circle moment. 'cause that is where I saw Rebecca for the first time Give a keynote was in Ohio and I've seen her do another keynote this past year. So I hope I get to go to that because if I get to see Rebecca keynote three times in three years in the state of Ohio, I mean, doesn't really get much better.

Brett Roer: Again, bring people from around the world together is, um, is very important in the age of ai. So that's another event that, while I can't personally say I've been to the folks that come back have told me that's something you really should try to experience at some point in your life just because it's, it's getting to see it, um, from a global perspective that I don't always have the privilege of doing.

Serena Reynolds: Tell you what, I'll go along that and I'll do a podcast and invite you on virtually

Brett Roer: looking forward to it. Thanks Serena.

Rebecca Bultsma: Yeah, so my background is comms, marketing, pr. So my favorite is actually one called Macon, and it's mostly like a marketing, um, ai, but there's a, an artificial intelligence podcast that I've listened to for years.

Rebecca Bultsma: And so outside of education, uh, that's, that's a good one. But again, those were kind of my OG people, so

Brett Roer: thank you. And Versha,

Versha Munshi-South: honestly, I don't, I don't love conferences, um, unless I like smaller ones. Um, so I have, I have my eye out, but I don't have any to share right now.

Brett Roer: Well, maybe you could let folks know, I mean, just even recently you've been to a couple regional ones, both in your roles, you know, as a board member, both in your role at Amplifying Elevation, like what were some of the ones you've been to recently and like what, what, what made them good?

Brett Roer: Small, intimate convening so people know what to check for when they go.

Versha Munshi-South: You have accountants, you have lawyers, you have community members, but it's an education conference. And so what I really appreciated, and Miguel Cardona, who's the former Secretary of Education for, for the United States of America, um, was the keynote speaker. And he was talking a lot about like workforce readiness, right?

Versha Munshi-South: So no matter what your entry point is, you can, you can understand that like we need to be educating students who can have economic and social mobility as they grow older, right? So everyone can understand that. Everyone can get behind that. And so I like conferences where it's like that there's a lot of entry points.

Versha Munshi-South: Doesn't really matter what your background is, your expertise, there's something there for you. Um, and there's smaller breakout sessions. And, um, and actually at, at that conference I met. Matt Vis, who also has a podcast about AI and education. He works regionally in Connecticut, Massachusetts area. Um, so it's also, it is always a great opportunity to connect with other people and hear the work they're doing if it's similar or different.

Brett Roer: Hmm. So key takeaway, regardless of the size, there's opportunities to really meet people who could have a major impact on your life.

Rebecca Bultsma: I just ride on Brett's coattails at those events. I've met hundreds of people by just standing in proximity to Brett at a conference. I've never seen anything like it in my whole life.

Rebecca Bultsma: It's amazing moths to a flame almost. People are drawn to him and he remembers everybody where they met things about them. It is a true art that I wish I had that level of people skills. That's my favorite thing about Brett actually.

Brett Roer: Well, I'm honored and so your advice is just look for Brett Roer and stand near, but don't get burned by those flames.

Brett Roer: I've learned. I laugh like that a lot, which I didn't know. I do. I gesticulate a lot and my facial expressions are very over exaggerated, but authentic.

Rebecca Bultsma: That's like me when I'm giving a keynote though. I can't get a good picture of myself getting a keynote. I guess we both have our own areas where we're in our element.

Brett Roer: There you go. What a what a what A bow on that present. Okay. What's the next question?

Rebecca Bultsma: Hmm. It looks like one question every school leader should be asking in January, and we have actually had some really interesting podcast experiences over the last several episodes where we've been working with a specific organization called The Rhythm Project that specializes in asking great questions.

Brett Roer: Yeah, so we were really honored to have Michelle Culver, who's the founder of The Rhythm Project, and some of her team members join us and some of us here to play the, uh, the AI effect game.

Brett Roer: And what made that such a special experience is these are scenarios that are very open to interpretation. The one that I ask a lot, uh, when I do keynotes or breakout sessions is, you know, using an AI chatbot to, as a teacher or or education leader to prepare for a difficult conversation with a parent.

Brett Roer: And the whole premise of the game is you in a circle, let everyone have equity of voice, and you just decide whether using AI in that format will strengthen human connections, will erode human connection, or it depends on the context. And obviously the answer you give of those three cards is not the most important thing.

Brett Roer: Uh, the next week, coincidentally I'm in Washington, DC in a very small setting, maybe 40 people total. And she happens to be one of them. And she immediately walked up to me and said, I just played, um, the rhythm project AI effect game. 'cause she won one of the decks of cards with the leadership team of Metro Nashville and we're wondering how we can bring it to our whole state in Indiana.

Brett Roer: We played the game and we actually just asked people, Hey, if you want free resources, just fill out this Google form. So it's an opt-in, it's not, we're giving it to you. And we actually got about 42 educators to fill it out. And then we just asked them like, what's your reach? So if you're an educational classroom teacher of an elementary school, you've got like 25 kids.

Brett Roer: So the questions are important and we've actually been like noodling with the rhythm project on like what are some other really cool scenarios that might, again, just deepen thinking for students, parents, and educators. But I guess those types of questions, um, would be the most impactful ones to help you shape policy and guidance.

Brett Roer: Because the way that we're using it authentically is with consent. We're recording some of those games and then we're showing people, well how does this align to your current guidance? Could you take some of this wisdom from your students, parents, teachers, and just revise your guidance? 'cause now you know what they actually are looking for or want or need more support in.

Brett Roer: Use an AI tool tool to map it to what you currently have and see if, and every time people are like, this just makes it better for our community.

Serena Reynolds: After playing that game for the first time, I, I actually walked away and for weeks later I was, I was referring back to some of the, the conversations that we had and really being reflective on, on what, what actually transpired.

Versha Munshi-South: So there's questions that ask other people and questions I ask myself.

Versha Munshi-South: So, uh, the question I'd ask Teen, I say, talk to teenagers as a school leader. Talk to teenagers as much as possible. Generally as a rule, they're brilliant. They, they can, they'll be honest. If you give them space, they'll also tell you absolutely nothing if you don't give them space. Um, so they, you know, they, they kind of hold tight their, their opinions, but you give them space, they'll share them.

Versha Munshi-South: I ask my own kids every few weeks, how are you allowed to use AI at school? And how do you wanna use ai? And their answer for How do you wanna use AI has consistently been, I don't want to, um, how are you allowed to, has consistently been, we're not allowed to. And so, um, I think that's, you know, great. Data, right.

Versha Munshi-South: Um, but I'd ask myself as a school leader, if you've been a school leader, you know that your day gets filled up with a lot of things that you don't wanna be doing. And what you really wanna be doing is spending time with teachers and spending time with kids. So what I'd ask myself is, what am I doing that gets in the way of spending time with teachers and spending time with kids?

Versha Munshi-South: And could AI help me with that?

Rebecca Bultsma: I think for me, the most important question is who's being left out of the conversation. And I think we talk a lot about teachers and students and we forget about parents. We forget about support staff and we forget about giving them a voice in what's happening, how it's used, and making sure that they are.

Rebecca Bultsma: Starting from the same place of knowledge and understanding, and that their voices are valid too in the conversation around AI and education because they're part of it as well. And so I think that most important question is, you know, who, who are we not hearing, whose voice is not being heard in this conversation?

Rebecca Bultsma: And it looks like the last question on our list is about a fresh perspective on ai. We learned from a student in sia. It looks like you get this on the regular from your own in-house expertise, your own children. So what's a fresh take a hot take a fresh perspective that you've learned from a student, whether in your own house or that you've come in contact with.

Versha Munshi-South: Yes. Uh, yes. So we do have our in dinnertime focus groups, but actually I think the most interesting conversations we've had lately have been with kids telling us how they personalize their own learning. And if you've been a teacher, you know that personalizing learning for kids is probably one of the hardest parts about being a teacher.

Versha Munshi-South: Whether it was, you know, it's Tell me, tell me this period in history, like it's a scene from Gossip Girl. Or, tell me about, um, this, like what I'm learning in calculus, like in a show it to me in a podcast or make a video for me. They know what they respond to. And so that's been cool to see kids really take ownership of their own learning, um, and, and be able to speak to that too.

Rebecca Bultsma: The things that I've learned a fresh perspective from AI are I follow a bunch of teenage content creators on TikTok who show exactly to an audience of their peers how they're using AI to, uh, cheat in air quotes, whatever that looks like, or get around these what school sinker Bulletproof AI proof, uh, assignments and tools.

Rebecca Bultsma: Um, so. It's not necessarily a fresh perspective, but if you talk to kids about stuff like that, uh, maybe they don't care because in a lot of the older mindset, school's supposed to be stressful. It's supposed to be a bad experience, and it's supposed to be hard because we're all about rigor. But this is, it feels different, um, in a lot of different ways.

Rebecca Bultsma: Teachers and their leaders that AI is bad and terrible and evil and wrong, and they should not be using it, which is a major disservice to students who are going to have to enter a workforce where this needs to be a part of their everyday life. And so that's unfortunate in my mind because there's a very specific group, like I'm saying, kids who are, were in like ninth grade to like first year university, uh, over the last two years in particular, who have a wildly different perspective of AI than anybody outside of those groups.

Rebecca Bultsma: And I think it's unfortunate. Um, so I'm hoping that's something we can kind of course correct along the way. But that's been something that was interesting as a perspective on AI that, that I've read about in research and actually seen, reinforced through conversations. And I think, SIA, you've kind of even just reinforced it a little bit as well.

Serena Reynolds: And she's looking at law, she's looking at the thinking profession. She's looking at politics and law, which is deep in, um, papers and research and historical data. There's not a better tool for it to, to start off on, on her journey. And it's, it's terrifying to be the other side of that.

Brett Roer: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Um, yeah, I mean, I'm thinking of like specific students.

Brett Roer: And what stood out to me was how, by having students tell you that it helped them learn personally. So one student talked about how it helped them really master the English language as a newly arrived, uh, student in America that really got people to recognize, right, we need to give access to certain tools safely and ethically to those types of learners because of how quickly it can help them learn on their own time and get more integrated into the community quicker.

Brett Roer: And making sure that teachers here, we know what the data and statistics are about how teachers, how students are turning to AI tools 'cause they don't have other connections in their lives. Maybe their, or it's difficult for them to talk about difficult topics with the people in their lives. But many students recognize like they don't know what they don't know, and they're looking for your help and guidance.

Brett Roer: And if you don't provide it to them, yeah they might start turning to AI tools because no one else is there helping them navigate being a teenager right now it seems like. So that idea that like they know it doesn't love them, but they also don't seem to be finding that support in other areas of their life at, at school or in the family, uh, or from friends.

Brett Roer: So like the real experience of like, we all probably had these moments of like, am I like being phony or inauthentic with our, with your peer groups or whatever. And that might be a term someone might say about you. And that's like really offensive in high school to teenagers. That's their identity. They know like AI is shaping their identity.

Brett Roer: They just don't know how and to what extent it matters. But they're like thinking deeply about this stuff. And so one of the things that uh, we've actually talked with some districts is like, let's build some AI etiquette courses and really teach people when it's okay to use it when it's not, or like just even how to explore this.

Brett Roer: 'cause we might not know the answers, but just like even having your community talk about it. Could like lower that anxiety and temperature that, uh, Rebecca's talking about from an academic standpoint, but it's also like social emotional learning standpoint that, uh, that probably is most top of mind for me right now based on what I'm hearing students say every day.

Brett Roer: How much fun? It's

Serena Reynolds: my, my takeaway would be to use an agent, talk to it, like ask it to do something for you and see what it comes up with. Any agent, just, just play with agents. That would be my takeaway. And just, just see the difference that that makes to, to what tasks you could actually get it to do and save you time.

Rebecca Bultsma: I think I'm, I'm the wrong person to ask. 'cause like my definition of fun is really nerdy and I'm not like, I, like, I don't identify as a fun person if we're being totally honest.

Brett Roer: Alright. What's the nerdiest way someone should engage with, for our nerds out there? For our listeners or our, for our self reclaimed nerds, like Rebecca.

Brett Roer: Well, Rebecca's doing some research on the side. Vir, what are your thoughts? What would you like to share with our. Millions of listeners.

Versha Munshi-South: I also don't identify as a fun person, but that could be a whole other podcast.

Rebecca Bultsma: That's why we align with Brett because he's like the funnest.

Versha Munshi-South: I know, I know. That's, it's a yin and yang.

Versha Munshi-South: Um, that I, it's sad. I won't call it fun. I call it satisfying and also reduces stress.

Brett Roer: That's perfect, by the way. Okay. Rebecca, take us away.

Rebecca Bultsma: Google Labs, if you wanna have some fun, go to Google Labs. It's where they test all of their cool latest ideas like Notebook. LM was born in Google Labs and they just throw up like 10, 20, 30.

Rebecca Bultsma: Different tests they're putting out there. So one is like Pelli, you just put in your brand and your website and it will give you a full rundown of marketing plans in your brand color and social media posts. There's another one called Opal where you can just build an individual app immediately. Uh, there's a brand new one that just launched called CC that will, right now it's only available on your personal account, but it will give you a morning rundown of here's, you've got these bills coming up, you have this on your calendar, here's your rundown for the day.

Brett Roer: I am going to say for people, I find the thing that I cannot believe, I'm still teaching people that truly every time they're like, I never did it like this one is.

Brett Roer: Record something with consent. Record a conversation and be present. So on your phone, use voice memo on your computer or iPad. Use voice memo with consent. Record it. It could be about like Sia just said, go sit with your family and be like, Hey, I wanna make a meal plan for the next week. I want everyone to tell me I everything they want me to know about what I should get for ingredients for the upcoming week.

Brett Roer: And how would I explain to each of them how this satisfies what their interests are? Try that. I think that would be the most fun thing you could do with consent. You could do it on phone calls too. So again, like I was just at the gym this morning and my wife started asking me very important questions about Christmas presents and wrapping and who's getting this thing I bought?

Brett Roer: I was like, oh no, it's happening. I'm never gonna be able to remember this. So I said, Hey, can I just record this? And I promise you then like in two minutes when the, when the recording comes, I'll send you a very coherent text message with all the next steps. So like, even ways like that. As, um, ver said, just reducing anxiety for me and it's just more fun.

Rebecca Bultsma: I think that's a wrap on our, uh, on our special. Truly 11 days of Christmas episode. Serena the the post-Christmas extravaganza. That is the ApmED, to 11, 11 days of Christmas.

Brett Roer: Yeah, thanks Versha for joining us and thanks Serena for this incredible idea

Rebecca Bultsma: And hopefully I wonder if any of our predictions that we made earlier in the show will come true. We can revisit those at the end of next year and see how close we came. I'm looking forward to it.

Brett Roer: Thanks everyone. Have a great day.