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6-time snooker champ and lifelong record collector Steve Davis took the mainstream by surprise when he started DJing...

his career blossomed quickly, but he'd been paying his dues with digging and collecting for decades previous...

In this interview we get into the day job and also the new hustle, and how they complement each other, and also how they're very different.In this fascinating episode, we sit down with one of Britain's most famous sporting icons - six-time world snooker champion Steve Davis - to explore his journey into electronic music, DJing, and his band The Utopia Strong.

Steve shares incredible stories about the golden age of snooker in the 1980s, including the legendary 1985 World Championship final against Dennis Taylor that 18.5 million people watched until the early hours of the morning. But more importantly, we dive deep into his lifelong love of music, from discovering prog rock and psychedelic music as a teenager, to becoming a respected DJ on the alternative electronic music scene, to creating experimental instrumental music with The Utopia Strong.

This conversation explores the parallels between elite sport and creative pursuits, the importance of obsession and dedication, dealing with success and failure, the power of humor and perspective, and why at 68, Steve feels like Peter Pan with no intention of retiring.

Whether you're interested in snooker history, electronic music, or the mindset of elite performers, this episode offers unique insights from someone who's mastered multiple crafts.GuestSteve Davis OBE - Six-time world snooker champion (1981, 1983, 1984, 1987, 1988, 1989), BBC snooker commentator, DJ, and member of electronic music trio The Utopia Strong.

Known as the "Romford Terminator" during his dominance of snooker in the 1980s, Steve has become equally respected in the alternative electronic music scene.

Key Topics Covered

1. The golden age of snooker in 1980s BritainThe 1985 World Championship final - 18.5 million viewers
2. Finding your obsession early in life (snooker at age 14)
3. Parallel journey with music from teenage years
4. Discovering prog rock, psychedelic music, and krautrock
5. The transition from sport to musicDealing with success, failure, and being replaced (Stephen Hendry era)
6. The importance of humor and not taking yourself too seriously
7. DJing philosophy and track selection
8. The Utopia Strong - experimental electronic musicModular synthesis and improvisation
9. Working for the BBC on snooker coverage
10. Life at 68 - feeling like Peter Pan

Upcoming gig: DJing in a sauna

Welcome back to Runt of DJ everyone.

It's the show that looks at what brings us together and what sets us apart.

As usual, just like to get everyone to sort of like and share and spread the word because we're getting some amazing stories with some amazing DJs and today we've got a very special one, the Romford Terminator.

One of the most famous British people, one of my friends sort of referred to him as the other day, which I think is pretty accurate.

Mr. Steve Davies.

How you doing, Adam?

I'm very well, thanks, how are you?

Yes, yes, thank you.

Yeah, it's weird being like, like over the years of being pretty well known in the uk, it's quite a strange thing.

It just happens organically and from the moment it happened of being thrown in the deep end overnight, more or less, but now it's just a sort of a process of that's, that's where you're up to and that's what happened to the game of snooker, that it became really sort of the forefront of TV it in the 80s and I happened to be around at that time.

So, yeah, the stars aligned for me and I've sort of lived in that sort of limelight ever since and enjoyed it.

Yeah, it's not been a chore so, you know, whenever it's, you know, the subjects of snooker or whatever it is are brought up, I don't have a problem chatting about it.

And it's, yeah, it's been quite a nice journey.

I don't know what would have happened otherwise.

Haven't got a clue.

I don't think I'd have ended up being a dj, but you never know, I might have been, I might.

Because if music's been a hobby, so, you know, I may have been, but maybe not the, not the higher profile that it got.

Yeah.

So I think, I would imagine certainly most of the English people, well, British people that are listening will be aware of your career, where it started, your first career, I should say.

The day job.

Yeah, the day job.

So for people that don't know you were 7 times, 6 or 7 times,

6 times World Snooker champion in, on a game, you know, for, for obviously anybody that's not.

Maybe American people don't know the game as well, but most, most countries now do know snooker and it became very popular in the, on the BBC in the 80s to, to an amazing level compared to other table ball games around the world.

And it got so much of a high profile that, you know, there I was on television a lot and you know And a lot of hours on television as well.

So it was pretty well known.

Yeah, yeah.

And it's, it's like I watched that Gods of Snooker documentary which was absolutely fantastic and didn't realize just how big it was because it was at the same time where football had taken a beat in hooliganism was like a maximum and British clubs were kicked out of European football for a time.

So yeah, it was really interesting seeing how big that was.

So when you were growing up, was snooker more of like a hobby type of level sport?

Well, from the age of 14, which was when I first was introduced to the full size table, I think it was more or less immediately bypassed from a hobby perspective into obsession perspective.

So yeah, yeah, full, full 100% hobby obsessive future was, you know, when you find something or, or it finds you, whichever way around that is, you then, you know, there's a, there's an element of destiny in it I think as well.

Not guaranteed that you're going to be any good, but once I think you find your thing, that's it.

And so I had no choice in that matter.

And it, but it was a wonderful obsession to find relatively early.

Yeah, yeah.

So did you kind of grow up playing a lot and was it known when you were young that you were kind of earmarked to be a big thing?

No, no, I was very fortunate.

It was my father's hobby and back then in the 70s, the, the world was different to now and most working class people went to social clubs or pubs, but the social clubs, the working men's clubs, where not only was their cheap drink because they were made, they were non profit, so that was where people could go and get cheaper drinks in pubs.

There was also pastimes, so darts was played and snooker was played.

Most, most working men's clubs would have had snooker tables, billiard tables.

So I used to go with my father when I was sort of tall enough, relatively old enough to be able to go at the weekends, got to play and showed some talent and then very quickly improved and didn't stop improving.

And so there was no sort of, it wasn't guaranteed that I was going to be, you know, I wasn't earmarked so to speak, as you say, but in the pursuit of trying to improve, you enter junior competitions because you want to play competitively and then you find out if you're, if you're capable and then the next minute is you become a senior player at the age of 18 and then you, you enter the seniors competitions, amateur level and then you once again find out how good you are.

And then relatively quickly from that period on, it was sort of pretty obvious that I was ahead of the curve.

But you still don't know.

You still have no idea if you're going to be good enough until it actually happens.

Yeah.

At what point does pressure become a thing in that journey?

Well, when, when you're, I think when you're younger, pressure doesn't necessarily rear its head like it could do later in your career or, or in your life.

So it's really just on a journey of fun.

But then maybe I'm saying that from a perspective of somebody who could handle it.

And obviously there are people that sort of don't like competitive or, you know, when people are watching.

So maybe that was just.

I happened to have those, those sort of traits.

So I didn't really ever feel the pressure at all.

I would, I think, I'm not trying to think.

But let's face it, I was never playing for my own money.

I was only playing with somebody else's.

There's a lot of people under more pressure than I've been.

So it's all relative.

Yeah.

Because I suppose when you're the defending champion, there's only one way to go, isn't there?

Well, yeah, well, somewhere down the line there is, yes.

And then, of course, maybe the most pressure that happens to people in sport is when they start to be superseded by the next level of performers or they get to a certain time in their career when for maybe age related, but could be other related issues, that you start to lose your personal form and then you're not as good as you used to be, or you lose that confidence that you're not as good as you used to be.

And that's when you have to try to dig deeper to try and work out what it is that is, what's, what's changed, what, what part of the equation has changed.

And that can be quite, that can be quite.

Not pressurized.

But, you know, you're asking questions of yourself you never asked before.

Yeah, I read Ronnie's book that was very interesting about that, about changes in form.

Yeah.

And, and I think, you know, and that would apply to, you know, DJing as well.

You know, if you, if you all of a sudden you're then put into another bracket and the expectations are higher on you, I'm sure that is, you know, that you start to.

You, you, you doubt yourself more.

Maybe you, you try to be better than you need to be, but.

Yeah, because actually you forget what it was that people wanted you for in the first place and you think you have to go to another level.

But actually it was just the level you would.

You were at anyway that could possibly happen, I'm sure.

And it did happen to me.

First year being a professional.

When I first turned professional, I thought I had to be professional.

I thought I had to be better again, where actually all I needed to be was to do what I was doing in the first place, because that was pretty good.

Are you Mathematic?

No.

Really?

No, not really.

No.

I'm not.

I'm not thick, but I'm not.

It's not my.

That's not my super skill.

I thought it was once upon a time, but it's not.

I can't work out the odds.

I can't work out odds on betting at all.

I should be able to, but I can't do it in my head anyway.

Yeah, I was thinking with angles and stuff and a lot more like kind of some of the music that you listen to and play as well, you see.

Nah.

No, it's not.

No, no.

I did try and learn to mix once, but I didn't really.

It wasn't really something I was that bothered about.

But yeah, I can count to four, if that helps.

And I know eights, I know red, black, red, black.

But I don't think they help you in the.

No, it's not a math, it's not a mathematical game other than you have to check the scores every now and again, but not for the actual playing perspective.

There's no, there's no.

It's just a feel.

It's just a knack.

So when did you first start getting into music and can you sort of share what that experience was?

Well, I was always into slightly different stuff as a kid.

So whilst the vast majority of teenagers in sixth form were into the pop stuff around, you know, stuff that was being fed to you via mainstream radio, I was seeking out different stuff even then.

So, you know, the, the John Peel program would have appealed, or the Bob Harris sort of, you know, stuff that could be on the.

The old Gray Whistle Test, as it was called then on television and the OCC radio program that, that played something that was a bit different.

I was banging this middle of prog rock as a teenager.

So that was fed down everybody's throat.

But I chose my own prog rock band rather than the ones that everybody thought or were the best, so to speak.

Yeah.

And I ended up listening to a lot of French bands and it became my, my hobby.

So record collecting, listening to music is my proper hobby.

The other ones, that's, that's another thing.

So.

Yeah, so.

So yeah, from early age I was always.

But I was always into sort of stuff that was different.

So back then I, I was into.

Instead of yes and Genesis, I was into Magma and Gentle Giant.

I then got into a lot of French music rather than British Prague.

And I then went down a rabbit hole in the night, the 80s and 90s for a while into soul music, but then came out of that end and went back to weird and wonderful music.

You know, the stuff that's a little bit more difficult to listen to, but you get your reward if you're prepared to sit with it.

Yeah.

What would you say is the big sort of difference between UK and European Prague then?

Well, I don't know what it is.

There's a lot of French artists that I tend to prefer and it's not, I mean, not, you know, some of it, a lot of it is instrumental.

I, I think maybe they may, in France they may have had many more different influences, so they're not stuck in, in one path.

Maybe it just, maybe, you know, there's somebody, there's a guy called Albert Markur, just an amazing actor.

And then there's also the Axac, Mabul, Mark Hollander and a lot of things that are on Crammed Discs, the record label and they're much more, it feels like it's much more of a wide umbrella of styles in Europe than there is in the uk.

I know we, I know the UK produce some amazing artists, but I, there's a lot, lot of the artists I prefer to listen to are not from the uk.

And I think that is definitely borne out by the fact that if, if you go to record shops in the uk, you cannot get the breadth of stuff, the experimental avanguard, modern, classical, you know, the weirdy stuff, they don't, they don't stock that because there's never been a need for it to stock it.

And there's never been, you know, the second hand market doesn't exist because there' not that many people were into it.

Yeah.

So I just think Europe's a better place for listening to music generally than the uk.

But it does depend on what you're into.

Yeah.

Because, I mean, with some of the sort of 70s jazz stuff you get like Belgian stuff, French stuff, Italian stuff, like Brazil's got loads of.

Yeah, like good pop stuff in the 70s and the early 80s.

What was it like balancing that passion for music with having to be elite at your day job?

The.

During the period when it all went ballistic in the 80s, I sort of.

One of the good things about record collecting or, you know, listening, you can dip into it whenever you want.

It's not something you have to do regularly to keep the skill level up.

So I think it was a decent hobby to have as a foil for.

For doing what I was doing.

And so there was never any crossover.

I never used to listen to music when I practiced, so music just was like off limits and actually thinking about it.

Even though I was into whatever I was into at the time during an event, I wouldn't listen to lots of music in time off either.

So maybe I didn't have an earworm in my head of something.

I was just listening to that.

I didn't want to sort of just like pop into my head.

But I was sort of trying to pot an important ball, maybe.

Yeah, maybe.

I don't know.

Because you have random thoughts come in all the time when you're doing that.

You have to get rid of them.

But yes, I never listened to music, so it took a back seat.

So I've really sort of gone, well, say recently, 10 years ago, I've.

I've sort of like got really back into it as my main hobby.

And I don't play snooka at all now, so it's my only hobby, so.

And I've.

I've enjoyed that, that journey.

So did you never sort of take the opportunity whilst you were on.

On tour anywhere with the snooker to try and like, buy?

Well, oh, yeah, yeah, I'd be buying, yeah, yeah.

But that doesn't require any sort of.

That's.

Yeah, whenever I was traveling, I'd go.

Yeah, I used to.

We'd go to Hong Kong.

Used to raid the record shops in Hong Kong.

They had some really cheap stuff out there back in the day.

Rarely went to America and didn't go to Europe that often because the game wasn't in the 80s and 90s, wasn't so European or America.

Right.

So we didn't.

I didn't really travel the world.

I did go to a Brazilian Reppel shop once and relieved them of loads of Brazilian jazz.

But if I think now I could have bought some better ones.

But as it was, I bought.

I bought quite a lot that were sort of bit prog jazz fusiony things that, that sort of dated badly.

I think it's.

It's super hard though, I find, when you go like even just going down to London or just going to any new city, oh, amazing.

I'm going to go dig in.

And sometimes you think I'll come out with better stuff out of the pound bin at the local place.

Just because you kind of know the stock.

You know, where he puts it.

Yeah, you know that.

You know, I think, I mean, things have massively changed now, but recently I've.

I've been to the biggest record fair in the world in the Netherlands called Den Bosch.

And if, if any, if you ever want to go to a record, that's it.

It spoils you for any record shop ever.

It is an incredible.

It's in two aircraft hangers, more or less.

And it's just.

You've never seen so many records in your life.

If, if you can't get it there, it's, it's, you know, it or less doesn't exist.

That's the level it's at.

So I'm much more into sort of crate digging now there rather than a record shop where you just feel like there's nothing, there's not going to be anything in there.

But, but the, the journey's good, I think.

You know, if I think back to a lot of the soul music I bought when I was occasionally in America and everything, the, the whole day, the experience, the journey is fantastic, you know, and, you know, the possibilities, you don't get anything.

But even the excitement of walking into a record shop is something that's quite special, I think as well.

So.

And then the occasional, you know, big hit when you get.

You get a lovely amount of records and, you know, you got them really cheaply.

Yeah, obviously we all like that doesn't exist that often anymore, but there was a time, so I feel quite fortunate to have gone through that period where you've got absolute bargains.

That's crazy.

So what era did you buy those then?

90s, I think.

Yeah.

Like.

Yeah, middle of 90, something like that.

Yeah.

Big record collection in a shop and 50p each and I went, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow.

What's Going on, you know, And I took them all this pile to.

To the counter and I went, these are really great.

He went, yeah, just had a collection and we got loads of more out the back.

Do you want to have a look?

Yeah.

Yeah.

I know a guy that still does that now, if you'll see.

If you'll see job lots on ebay.

And I think he tends to make his money back on him.

So this might be an obtuse question, so I'm happy to edit it out.

So with snooker, from my awareness that it was quite handsomely paid.

So was it difficult?

Like I'm not very good at saving money.

Right.

Would it have been difficult, say, go into record fairs and shops and things to kind of like limit yourself?

Yeah, yeah,

funnily enough, yeah, it did.

Because I would have been in the.

At one stage, I'd have been in the record collecting world of not paying a lot of money for stuff.

I wouldn't have, you know, I wouldn't have been laying out a load.

It was only when I got into soul music I started to realize there was some rare stuff that.

That, you know, if.

If you wanted it, you'd have to pull up a large wedge to get it.

If.

But I wasn't particularly into the really rare stuff anyway.

Even in soul music, which would have been Northern Soul, I was more or less after the.

A lot of the slower stuff that may have been on the B side, but of a Northern soul.

So it could have been an expensive one.

But it took me a long time before I, you know, sort of pulled the trigger on a lot of rare stuff.

And I would do now, but more with a view.

So I sort of feel like I now know what I want.

But back then, I don't know if I was just going through the motions of collecting soul music just because it was sort of obscure sometimes.

But it was, it wasn't price, it wasn't price led.

So I didn't get.

I wasn't getting off on.

This is worth 500 quid.

So, you know when.

Well, I think.

I mean, the first.

I think I paid 400 for a.

So a deep soul record once and I couldn't believe I'd actually did it.

But.

Yeah, but that's, you know, in today's world, that's nothing really.

In the world of collectors.

Yeah, but there's also this thing about, you know.

Yeah, yes, nothing's worth.

Nothing's worth 400 quid as one piece of music.

It's all rubbish.

Isn't it?

You know.

Yeah.

Collecting is a bit of a rabbit hole, isn't it?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But I mean, I, I, you know, I fully understand, but it's not for everyone.

Yeah.

So with the, for anyone that doesn't know, you were kind of, what, what was, what was the.

Aside from Romford Terminate, you were kind of almost like marketed as being like really dull, weren't you?

Well, that, that wasn't really marketing.

It just happened.

You have no control over what happens in your life once you go on.

Once you get telly, you don't, you don't control it.

The only way is if you wore a mask and said that you, you'd never take the mask off unless you got beat or something.

Like a wrestler.

Yeah.

Maybe you could create some sort, maybe could have curated an image if you'd have known you were going to get good at it.

But you don't and before you know it you are sort of public property and you then have to go with the flow of what people decide you're like.

So yeah, the boring tag was something that was, was, was, was quite an interesting sort of exercise in how, how would you sort of.

How would you judge what to do with yourself as a public, you know, property if you knew it was going to happen?

You may try and negate that, but you are what you are.

So fortunately for me, a TV program called Spitting Image came along and gave me a nickname and a personality all at the same time.

So it, and then it was just more fun to be boring after that.

So I just kept with it.

Not.

I wasn't trying, it just happened.

Yeah, yeah, it's been, it's been good.

Not bad.

It's been really funny.

In my, in my opinion.

It's been really good.

So.

Because there's no expectations when you talk to anybody.

Yeah.

Was it ever strangers thinking, yeah, but they think that they don't know the records I've got.

Yeah, but listen, like, you know, progr.

If you're.

If it's perceived that you listen to prog rock and you like 20 minute drum solos, there's no smoke without fire.

So, you know.

Yeah, if, if I can listen to cyrus inversion, the 13 minute dub techno track that is basically the same thing in, in some people's eyes is the same for 13 minutes.

There's no smoke without fire.

Yeah.

If I like listening to, you know, 20 minute ambient pieces that, you know, you know, maybe you know, La Monte Young or something like that.

It's just non changing.

Yeah, maybe I am boring Yeah, I think I am actually.

It's great.

I love it.

I get that though.

Like I can easily listen to the right hip hop loop for an hour because people put these like homework edits on YouTube.

I have no problem with that.

If it's a good loop, totally.

But equally when I try and make beats, I can only make a loop.

I can't structure anything.

There is this thing now that, I mean, I don't know how it, I don't really know how it's all gonna pan out, but I was watching something where they were saying the pop song, you know, the two and a half, three minute pop song is now obsolete and it's all tick tock.

It's all a minute.

And yeah, we are living in a world of short attention span and if, if future generations get even less of an attention span that nobody can even bother to listen to an album, nobody can be bothered to read a book.

That seems currently the way we're going.

It's not great.

I don't think it's great for music, for anything that's decent.

I don't know where it ends up, you know.

And of course it always sounds like, you know, bitter old people talking about, oh, the world's not the same anymore.

But you know, like people are, people are not prepared.

If people are not prepared to put some groundwork into actually listening to stuff because their attention span is, has been trained to be less because that's the world we live in.

That's going to be tough for artists in the future.

You're going to have less of a, a pool of people that want to listen to your music.

If, if really it's all about 90 seconds.

Yeah.

A minute, then I haven't got a clue really.

But it's the same with DJing as well.

You know, we've had many conversations on air about it.

Like my, my daughter mentioned something the other day where she didn't really.

I think I was listening to a mix or something and she said, oh, like this is a long tune.

And I'm like, no, no, it's a mix.

It's loads of different.

All right.

Yeah, they just, they just don't, don't know and think that that would be a thing.

So it's.

Yes, it's a really strange time for it.

Yeah.

In, in those sort of peak snooker days, did you have anyone that you connected with, with music that was around you?

No, not at all.

My, my sort of musical friends would have been outside that world.

I'm not sure exactly, but I tend to think that maybe sport and music don't really mix that well.

As if the parts of your brain that way, not, not just the performers, but, you know, the, the whole world around it, the people that are interested in a, you know, certainly, you know, the one I know a game like, you know, golf, snooker, darts or whatever, that, that type of mentality doesn't need music in their lives.

They are really on another mission and another pathway.

It's not to say they don't.

People wouldn't necessarily like.

It's not.

They don't like music, but they don't need that for what they're doing.

So the sporting endeavor, type of, you know, the pursuit of perfection, the competitive buzz is something that you get everything from that maybe you don't need music from.

So.

So I didn't.

There was no other snooker players who were into anything weird.

Yeah, yeah.

Or different even.

And I suppose like in the social clubs and things like that.

I'm assuming you wouldn't have

social clubs.

None.

Music didn't exist in social clubs, did they?

Not play at all?

No, no, no, no music.

Well, no music in a snooker room.

No.

You.

That's there, right?

No, no whistling.

At least one foot on the floor.

No spitting and no music.

Yeah, that was the old school.

I think what's interesting thinking about the.

About snooker and DJing is you've got this one thing where you can hear a pin drop and you've just got to execute this, this thing sort of perfectly and then the other thing, like, atmospherically is like the opposite.

You know, you're coming together through something sort of noisy and dynamic and, and stuff like that.

It's, it's, it's just kind of.

Was it strange going from that one atmosphere to the other when you start DJing?

Well, that was a shock to the system more than anything else.

I had no real plans to do it, so if I had.

Have had a plan to do it, maybe it had been a different path, but I was.

Because of an interest in me.

I was.

I was doing a radio show for many years on a community radio station in Essex called Phoenix fm and I was doing a sort of a weekly show of quite esoteric style music.

And I then teamed up with a friend of mine, Carvis Tarabi, and we started to do the show together.

Had much more fun as a duo than ever doing it on your.

It's more fun by a mile.

But eventually we started to get asked by a guy we knew to DJ in a tap room of a brewery in Bethnal Green.

And there was no money involved, but it was free beer.

Well, I mean, you know, you can't go wrong, can you?

So everybody DJs for free beer and it was really good beer.

So we started DJing there and then bizarrely the two lads, Alex and George from Block Weekend, who did a really amazing weekender that happened for a number of years, asked us to DJ at the final of a Block Weekend at Butlins in Minehead and we went, well we, that it's an electronic music festival.

And we went, but we don't really, we're not really electronic music DJs.

We, you know.

And they went, no, we just want you to play in the bar, in the pub part as a foil to all the other stuff that's going on in the other rooms.

So we did.

That was our first ever DJing thing and it was, it was like a shock to.

I was so.

It was so nerve wracking and all he was doing was pressing play.

We weren't mixing even.

We can't still can't mix but we just pressing play.

But it was just the nervous of, yeah, it's just a new world.

And then, then quite quickly it got a bit of exposure, got a bit of publicity and then, then it got a BBCI player did a little small documentary on it and it got shown during a snooker event and so then it got loads of exposure and then the phone rang.

Glastonbury wanted us to DJ.

Like, you know, it was only a second ever DJing thing was at Glastonbury, you know, totally out of a depth.

But, but the thing was.

What a buzz.

Yeah, you know, but I have not paid my dues at all.

So, you know.

Yes.

Yeah.

So I don't know what it would have been like sort of to come through the ranks of that.

I've just been shoved in the deep end and it's been a buzz and you get a pass, you know, even if you don't, you take the right, wrong record off, you know, people just laugh, they don't go dj.

Yeah, but you get, you get a pass, you know, you get, you get let off.

So we've been let off or I've been let off by being sort of, you know.

Oh, of course he's, you know, of course he's not going to be any good, you know, and then you start to have so much fun doing it.

A world of fun that was never around in the snooker world, you know, with, in as much as, you know, it's not, you know, you're, you're there as a, you're on a mission and just realizing it's a party night and, and, and then going, well, great.

You know, okay, so I'm slightly late to this party.

You know, I was in my 50s, late mid, mid to late 50s when I started DJing.

And then you, you know, we haven't been off the deep end, but we've had a lot of fun.

Yeah.

But beyond that, you would get into this era where it was like the older, like reality TV stars would be starting to get gigs and stuff like that, and you get these generates so you get it kind of with influences and stuff now.

So people get like, people know whether someone cares or not.

And I think it's probably the authenticity.

So, you know, you might not have done Your, done your 10,000 hours playing in the tap rooms and built it gradually, but if you're someone who authentically cares about music and knows about it, I think that goes a long way.

Yeah, I think.

And that's, you know, we, we sort of decided that we weren't going to be sort of doing anything other than playing the music we liked and not just finding tracks that worked on a dance floor.

So there had to be absolutely 100 tracks we believed in, but actually would have danced to ourselves, not just going for the motions.

So that's, that's been, that's been the brief for, for us and initially a certain amount of novelty factor, getting booked to do things.

And they would have been a missed booking because they assumed that you would have been down that road of celebrity DJ that was playing, you know, YMCA or whatever.

But.

And then a number of sort of like, oh, that was the wrong booking.

And then we, we quickly worked out that you just don't take every book in.

You try and find out what, what, what is the requirement and then let them know what they're likely to get.

And that's when we realized that it was probably important to have an agent as well.

And we stumbled upon, and it's been great fun ever since Rick Morton from Popwire.

And initially he was just as our DJ agent and he, and he found better gigs and yeah, I never had a rider before until Rick turned up.

It was great.

Yeah.

And then eventually when.

So I've sort of moved into making music as well in the band.

Yeah, yeah, he's now the.

Our agent for the Utopia Strong that we're in as well.

So it's been a great journey and yeah, he was originally.

Was with Blow Up Live and he used to get.

Get.

But he went on his own.

It's more fun now, I think for him.

So do you want to talk about the band and that journey?

Because that's a big step as well, isn't it?

Yeah.

I mean, it's nothing to do with DJing though, so I don't.

That's all right.

I mean, most.

The vast majority of people that I'm bumping into around the snooker world or.

Or sometimes, you know, in the public life, the DJing seems to have got a fair bit of publicity.

But.

So.

Yeah.

Oh, yeah.

Oh, you're a DJ now?

Oh, yeah, great.

You.

You know, I do occasionally DJ these days because it's sort of there.

The.

The no worn off and there's only so many festivals you can do before.

They never ask you back again, fortunately.

No, no, but we cleared.

We cleared the tent at Bestival.

Was it camp?

Best of all, Camp Festival is the camp.

We cleared the.

We cleared the tent at camp.

Best of all, our proudest moments.

I pit.

I feel DJing on the band.

DJing.

DJing.

No, we wouldn't be at camp, though.

We.

We wouldn't.

The band wouldn't be at camp.

But we got booked at camp festivals.

One of our.

One of our proudest moments.

We were.

And we worked out subsequently that when, if we.

If we get booked to do a festival where there's glitter, we go down really badly.

So we have this equation that sort of like, you know, the more glitter there is, the more percentage chance we're going to bomb.

Yeah.

And.

And there was a lot of glitter that.

That that year, I think probably there was always a lot of glitter at Camp.

Best of Voice and Fat Boy Slim was on the main stage playing tracks including one with the F word in it that he.

That was edited.

So he was so Fat Blossom was editing his own, censoring his own music, which we thought were what's going on here.

And we were the last 10 open and it was a big tent as well.

So it was the only tent after Fat Boy Slim was on the main stage to come to before the whole camp festival closed down for the night.

And it was me and Carvis Tarabi playing weird sort of French Prague and a complete mixture of stuff that nobody's ever heard before, nothing they've ever heard before.

And I think maybe a third.

I don't know how many?

Five hundred?

A thousand?

Seven, you know, just churned into this tent and within 10 minutes we cleared the place.

It was great.

And we had 20 people left the hardcore and they had a great time.

Nice.

Yeah.

So anyway.

Yeah, so.

So the end result of getting involved in.

More into.

Into music was I stumbled upon a modular synthesizer that didn't have a keyboard, just patch wires.

And as a result of that started to enjoy making music and ended up with Karvis and Mike York forming a band called the Utopia Strong.

And we've had nine.

Nine albums out.

Yeah, nine albums out.

And also I've just done one with a friend of mine, a vinyl, put it, pressed it up on vinyl with a friend, Michael Gaz Williams, just as our own names, no other band and enjoying making music.

But a modular synthesizer is a very interesting musical instrument because it's not a normal.

There's no skill, dexterity, learning to play it, you.

You need the knowledge, but you don't need the dexterity.

So it gives somebody like myself the chance to make music in a different way.

So with a.

With a modular synthesizer, the.

Maybe the arguable skill in.

Is in whether the same as a dj.

If you're playing a track, you judge whether it's the right track or not.

You have the choice to take it off effectively or cut it short or never play it again.

You judge it and then you judge a feeling in the moment.

And modular, the synthesizer, you.

It plays itself to some degree, you sort of guide it and you decide whether what's coming out is good or whether it needs changing, which is different to learning to play the piano or something like that.

And that's been a great journey as well.

But that they are linked together.

But we don't not DJing.

And yeah, maybe you could DJ ambient music with modular synthesizer and add effects.

That might be quite an interesting thing to do.

I think the thing that I'm aware of with modular synths is, I mean, going down the road of sort of European Prague and stuff.

That's one rabbit hole.

Modular synthesizers are another sort of beast, aren't they?

Like one of my mates had one and he's like, oh, I've just got this new module for it and stuff and it's like it's never ending.

Yes, it's a big rabbit hole.

But of course, you know, it does go back to, you know, Tangerine Dream back in the day would have had they weren't so small and there were big walls of it.

But that was the history of it, you know, the the synthesize

in.

In popular music with.

With Moog synthesizers and everybody wanted to jump on that band bandwagon.

But the actual synthesizers with the patch wires where you're sort of looks like a telephone exchange.

That's a sort of more esoteric, weirdy world that is not for everyone.

But I quite enjoy it.

It's sort of, you know, it suits my.

It suits my nerdiness more than anything else.

Yeah.

Anyway.

Do you ever gig out live with the band then?

Yeah, we did.

We've done tours.

We.

We've done a tour.

Okay.

A coup with sort of a couple of well known bands in the Prague world from the past.

A guy called Steve Hillage.

Yeah, he wasn't playing System Stevas and stuff.

He was with this stuff in the 70s and we were at the support band for that.

It was great fun.

We had a great tour.

First time on a tour bus that was great traveling, sleeping on it and everything.

I felt like Doctor who in a Tardis one we had.

We turned up at Exeter overnight van.

The.

The coach parked up but it couldn't park up in the venue because it was too tight around the roads.

So it parked up in the high street.

We got permission to park in the high street.

Woke up in the morning, opened the.

Open the.

The.

The coach door and like in front of me were loads of boots and you know, a McDonald's.

Right.

It felt.

I felt like I was Doctor who.

Yeah.

Where.

Where are we now?

What day is it.

It.

So that was a good journey.

What sort of size of crowds is Steve Hillage playing today?

He was playing some relatively big crowds.

I think maybe, you know, a thousand maybe.

I mean back in the day he would have been playing a lot more than that.

But some, you know, venues.

I think we.

Was it Rock City in Nottingham would have been.

I think we played there.

Yeah.

I think you can get about 3,000 in there.

Oh, can you?

I'm sure.

I reckon so, yeah.

But yeah, most of them were not too sure if it was then.

But they're the pretty decent venues.

A few forums and that.

But I mean, you know, if we go out on our own, we're sort of maybe like 200 cap places.

That's quite.

That's quite a nice amount as well.

Did that have its own pressure then?

It's so new because like you go from.

It's one thing like having the stress of pressing start and stop on records but then having to perform yourself as a new thing.

Arguably one of the worst.

Well, not the worst.

It was exciting but it's like, it was like being told you've got to go to the dentist for some major work and you don't really like the dentist.

So we made this record, we just jammed, we ended up with loads of jams.

We listened back to them that night and that with no view to make a record.

We just thought, wow, these are good.

We could, we could do something with these.

We could.

This 20 minute piece, we could cut it down into six or seven.

That could be a good bit there.

And all of a sudden, Carl Sarabi and Mike York, both great musicians, they know what they're doing.

And I then joined the party to make an album, made the album,

went

to a few people we know, some friends and one of the people, other friends have been on that label, Rocket Recordings.

When, yeah, we'll, we'll put this out.

Wow.

Okay.

We met up, sort of shook hands on it and as we were, as we were sort of half leaving, Chris Reeder 1/2 of Rocket Recordings went, and you will be, you will be touring, gigging, touring to promote the album, won't you?

And, and Carva Stirabi and Mike Yul went, yeah, of course we will.

And at that moment it dawned on me that, that what was then going to be required was me to be playing live on stage.

And I just went cold thinking about the.

Fantastic.

It's all over.

Okay.

Then we did a bit of DJing.

Yeah, certainly out the nerves, but after a while it was just fun.

But then the thought of going on the stage was exactly the same as turning up for the first round of the World Championship.

Championship.

Never been so nervous in my life in the dressing room going, why, why have I put myself through this?

And it awful.

I'm still getting those nerves now.

Even though we've probably done over 100 gigs and I still have this moment of nerves of going, why am I putting myself through this angst?

But then once you get going and you've got something to think about and you've got something to concentrate about on, then all of a sudden it's great fun.

But the, the waiting, it's like, you know, that's the worst part of everything.

In the dressing room beforehand, in, you know, before you walk out for your first match at the World Championship, before you do a really big DJing set somewhere, even if you know the record's already there, it's still nerve wracking.

Yeah.

Like I remember when I used to get more, used to get more sort of bookings for club nights and things like that.

I'd be fine to get my book in.

It's in a couple of months or whatever.

And then the day of it, before I set off to drive to wherever it was, I'd have this like, existential financial crisis.

I'd just be so worried about if it went wrong.

Yeah, it's, yeah, yeah.

I don't know.

I don't know.

Well, I, I, I could d, I can DJ my own.

Quite happy with that.

But then all you do is.

What we do is prep.

Yeah.

I can press play, I can press play on my own.

I'm, I'm with two professional musicians in our band.

I, I know I'm, I'm honored that they trust me enough to put their reputation in on the line with somebody who's.

But I don't think I could do it on my own.

I don't think I want to do a set on my own with a modular synth.

Yeah.

Because that is another level again of responsibility that I don't really need.

I just, I just enjoy making the music and I'll, I'll suffer going on stage because actually after a while it is good fun once you, once the nerves have calmed down.

But we put it, we put, we put ourselves through this because we actually love what we're doing.

Yeah.

And so that, that, that nerves is only because you care.

Yeah.

That, yeah.

If you didn't give them monkeys about the outcome, that sort of, that's time to either pack up or change jobs or whatever.

But yeah, if you don't care at all about it, what's the point to do it in the first place?

You know, it's not just the money you're doing.

You know, there's nothing to do with it really.

And, but you've got to enjoy what you're doing in your life.

So it is because you care that you get nervous.

Were you able to enjoy snooker whilst you were playing?

Yeah, not all the time, but, yeah, massively.

Yeah.

There's been times at the World Championship where I've looked around and obviously things have been going okay.

Maybe in those games where I thought, wow, this is.

I don't want to be anywhere else in my life.

So.

Yeah, but then there's other been, there's been other times when you want the ground to swallow you up because it's, you're having a bad day and that's, that's sport.

That's winning and losing.

Yeah, yeah.

And winning or losing is.

You're so, you're so dependent upon the outcome.

Even though it shouldn't define you, it does.

Whereas in the art and, But I quite like that.

The winning and losing, the black and white of success and failure.

Whereas if you get into the arts world or maybe certain sports where they're judged by, you know, say, diving or, you know, people are judging you, that world is quite, you know, whether you get reviews on your, your product or, you know, people judging you as a dj, that's a slightly different type of experience where you're perhaps more vulnerable in one respect.

So even though you're going to get patted on the back a lot, you still don't know for sure the, the actor or the actress and whatever they're, they're sort of always, you know, maybe needing some reassurance, but you know exactly where you stand when you're winning or losing.

It's horrible when you lose, but at least you sort of like, come on, you go back to the practice table.

What, what, what do you do?

What did you do wrong?

You know you did something wrong, or you just have to say, well, I'm not good enough, but at least you know where you stand.

I suppose they're both things where you can overthink them a lot.

Because I think even with the dj, just something I was going to mention before, it's like you get to a point where when you've only got 30, 40, 50 records and you take them out with you and you DJ and you're playing just whatever you've got and it's kind of simple.

Whereas when you've got a selection collection where there.

Okay, I've got a load of hip hop, I've got a load of disco, I've got a lot of Prague.

It's like, do you just try and play one thing?

Do you try and go between them and you can like really just get into that, almost like paralysis of it and just end up taking out.

Not really the right combination for anything.

Yeah, I suppose so.

I mean, I, I've, I'm.

I'm not sure exactly what type of DJ I am, if that makes any.

I don't know what.

I don't think I fully, fully done the whole gamut of what's required.

We're just jumping in the deep end and being sort of helped along to start with maybe have spoiled me to some degree.

I'm not too sure that I would know if things were going badly, how to get out of them because I may not have paid My dues in that respect.

Doing it with another person is good fun because you bounce off each other and you might make that you.

You won't be choosing all of the music.

So maybe that's nice.

Sometimes it's quite an interesting thing when you're DJing somebody else that what you decide is then should be the next track will be different to what they decide.

And, and a.

You, you.

You may have made the wrong decision.

You may have made the right decision but I think as a committee you can handle it a bit better than if it's your own responsibility.

Yeah.

Like I've never been very good at like sort of collaboration with people.

I think it's just probably something in my personality.

But I remember I played a place in Nottingham years ago, Stealth and I put on Sly in the family Stone.

Remember who you are.

And it cleared the dance floor and then my mate who I was DJing with at the time, he had to get the dance floor back and I, I felt just tiny.

It was just the worst feeling.

Yeah.

Well I mean the thing is there's no rhyme or reason to that.

What is.

What I, what I have found is that you can't work out why one night a record goes well and the next.

The next night it doesn't.

Like.

Yeah, that's sort of.

And you.

Okay.

So yeah, it may be the order you play them in but.

But it sometimes doesn't feel like it's even that.

It's just, it's just sort of.

It's sort of some X factor of the room.

Yeah.

And each room is different and each sound system is different and the atmosphere in each room changes and it can be.

I think you could definitely play the same set two nights on the trot and.

And you know, one night something works and the next night it doesn't.

Like it's a front 2, 4, 2 track that sometimes play.

Remember playing down in Deal in Kent and it kicked off playing this track.

I forget what track or fugazi waiting room and.

And then you go somewhere else and it's just not the same vibe.

Yeah.

And I know different parts of the uk, different parts of the UK will have different facets of things that have always been into.

But you, you feel like people that go to music clubs to listen.

Not, not, not festivals but people who go to watch DJs at music clubs would be pretty open minded and across the UK would be roughly the same.

You're not talking about specific, you know, techno club or a specific rock club.

Talking about sort of just a General place that has music on every night that's.

But you still can't work it out.

You just have to suck it and see every night.

Which is great.

Keeps you on your toes.

Well, yeah, like.

Because I think dynamics come into it.

So maybe so.

So that wonder.

Yeah.

I am still haunted by 20 years later where I cleared the room.

Have you ever played it again since?

Never.

That's really unfair on it.

That's really unfair on that track.

You should.

You should try it again.

Yeah.

Give it another go.

I just don't get that many gigs at the moment so if anyone wants to book me for anything, then please do.

That's my announcement that I keep meaning to make.

But yeah, because with Dynamic, there's certain songs that I'm like.

Like I don't know if you know.

Organ Donor by DJ Shadow.

It's not a hard song at all, but people just love it.

It.

And I. I feel like they love it way beyond what I would expect when you play it.

They get really into it and I'm like.

I just.

I. I just don't see it just because of the dynamics really.

Well, I mean the, the other thing is that the.

If you.

If you feel like you have a certain level of.

Of discerning quality in you, you then.

It's upsetting when people dance to.

But what can you do?

I mean me, we.

We once got booked to DJ on.

On a stag do ferry from Newcastle to Amsterdam.

Wow.

And we were on at 12 o' clock at night and by that time everybody was wrecked and the ship was rolling in.

The Atlantic would have been.

Oh maybe the channel.

Yeah, channel probably.

And.

And.

And there's you know, on the.

On the dance floor.

It was.

It was all.

It was horrible.

It was all.

All going.

They sleep overnight on the.

On the boat to get to Amsterdam for their stag do.

It was fun.

But some.

Somebody.

Some pissed woman came up to us and asked for nickel something from Nickelback.

We just.

Well, we're just.

It's not going right here.

And all the stuff we were trying to play never worked and there was a.

It was a great DJ and off on after us at 1 o'.

Clock.

He just abolted it.

There was no point.

But you know, you sometimes you just have to play ymca I suppose.

But you know, not for me.

I mean it's.

It's not that I don't like the song Argan Donut.

I just don't.

I would never imagine it to be one that would get a dance floor going.

No, you Can't.

But then maybe.

Well, maybe.

I'm not saying you're not skillful, because I'm sure you are.

Maybe that the skill is when you can get people to dance to stuff like that.

Or, or maybe there's other tracks this way, the other way around, really.

There's the tracks where you.

It's not that good, but you can get them to.

Because you got them into a frenzy, then that's great.

Yeah, but, but if it's a track like you say that you don't really believe in as strongly as they do, then.

Well, is that when you become a wedding dj?

I don't know.

You know, if you're going to be prepared to play stuff you don't really believe in.

Where do you draw the line with that?

I don't really know, but I don't want to do that.

But yeah, I think Argan Donor is a bad example, probably.

But like, yeah, I mean, there's.

We have chats on here about.

You get people that.

You're probably a bit more.

In my camp where it's like you just.

You want to play music you love, whereas you get the people that they want to facilitate an atmosphere and help people have a good night.

And that's more important than the musical agenda, I guess, if you know, you could call it.

So it's very, it's just very different types of people, I think.

Yeah.

And also, I mean, wherever you're booked, they've got a.

They've got to get the punters in.

So, yeah, you, you, you can't be too esoteric.

Well, you can, but you don't get invited back.

It depends how, you know, that's.

That whole thing would be, you know, how far, how far out on a limb do you want to go, know.

But I, hopefully, hopefully you find your people.

I suppose that's, that's the, the, the good thing about it.

You, you find out where you.

And also where you stand.

So.

Yeah, yeah, I mean, funny enough, I mean, we do far less DJing now than we've ever done before, because I think.

So it's sort of fairly well known that, that it's quite an eclectic set and it's not for everybody.

But I sort of.

I'm happy that that's the case because it feels like sometimes you, you DJ somewhere and it's like it's not really landing and it's not worth, you know, nobody's getting anything out of it.

But fortunately, if you find you somehow, you'd have to dig deeper to find the tracks.

That work.

So.

And as long as they're ones you still half believe in, I suppose that's the balance.

Yeah, yeah.

Is there ever a time where it's like you get like a certain attention when you're DJing?

You'd get a certain att you wouldn't want, where you're like, this is the downside of being Steve Davis.

Oh, occasionally, but.

Yeah, but that was like, you know, the occasional person's turned up in a.

In a dinner jacket and a bow tie, you know, with a queue in their hand, thinking it would be fun.

Right.

Just for a photo, I don't know.

It's never a problem.

The weirdest thing was the first ever DJ thing we did, Block weekend.

And as everybody checked in for the weekend to get their chalet key at the reception, they gave everybody their chalet key and a mask of me and.

Yeah, well, I was, you know, the sort of cardboard mask with two eyes cut out and the mouth and elastic.

So I wasn't aware of this until all of a sudden we started to DJ and.

And at the time, we did sort of 20 minutes on and off.

So I was DJing.

I think I started off for the first 20 minutes minutes.

Never DJ before in front of anybody.

Everybody was looking at me.

I'm standing there, like, feeling totally naked, like, going, yeah, just.

And I'm not doing anything.

I'm just pressing play and I'm looking down and I'm.

I don't even want to look up.

I don't want to see if anybody's dancing.

I don't want to.

I don't want any sort of, like, feedback.

I just want to.

I'm so shy.

I'm like, there, right, okay.

And then all of a sudden, sudden, eventually, I sort of out of peripheral sort of top view, I sort of saw people might have been going like that a bit.

So I then looked up and I saw a bit like in the film John Malkovich, I saw a sea of masks of my face.

Everybody had decided obviously, to wear them.

And that was one of the.

One of the strangest things I've ever experienced.

Yeah, that stressed me out a lot.

It was fun.

But then after a while, you know, they took them off because it was getting too hot.

Do you just.

On the snooker, do you know what the largest amount of people is that have been watching you play at any

one point in a room?

The actual room, I mean, including television.

Yeah.

That got 18 and a half million people, people viewing 900 in the crucible, so that's all you were playing to, but 18 and a half million on the, on the telly.

On the telly was astonishing, but I think now the players now in the game have far more worldwide.

Yeah.

And, and you know, people, if it's a player from China playing, you know, that's.

18 and a half million is nothing.

When Xiao Xingtong won the World Championship in last April at Sheffield, you would have been, I don't know, 100 million tune into that, watching him, I'm sure, win.

So things have changed, but it's quite amazing to think that that sort of has, you know, has got that bearing.

But that just shows you how the popular snooker is, and same as darts as well.

Yeah, yeah.

What did you have any specific techniques to then.

To get these thoughts out of your head?

No, no, not at all.

Not know, once.

I mean, it's, it's sort of like if you're, I'm sure all sort of sports analysts and psychologists would, would tell you how to try and stay in the moment, you know, stay in the moment, stay in the zone.

But if the game of Snook is not a fast thing, so you have time when you're sitting in your chair and the other person's at the table that you, you, you know, you could try and become like, zoned in and watching every ball or every now and again, random thoughts cross your mind and, you know, and weird.

Yeah, weird thoughts and that's down to.

Well, okay, fair enough.

Just let them come in and out because you're in your downtime.

When the guy misses, then it's time to switch it back on again and go from off, out of standby.

But I don't know, I don't know.

Yeah, I think I must have done it successfully, but maybe other people have more problems than me doing it, so maybe I was quite lucky.

I could stay in the moment better than others.

But you still have random thoughts.

Yeah, yeah, I bet there's people that give a very different answer to that.

Yeah, probably would do, yeah.

Of not being able to focus in when required.

But that's also, you know, you play all your life, you know, and you as a junior, you know, if you're, if you DJ all your life or whatever you do, you learn your trade.

So I think what happens is from the, the moment you start, start as a snooker player competing, you learn how to compete and you, you're fit for purpose and you know how to zone in because you've done it so often and, and you happen to be good at it.

So I would imagine the same for I know if you were Talking about top DJs about how to, you know, to, not to, to go through the motions, but not go through the motions, you know, to be able to still be relevant and to be.

You're on it rather than just going okay, here we go, stick a USB stick in and press play.

You know, whatever that's, you know that, that you still actually enjoy it enough that you are in the moment is the best you can do.

And, and that's great.

And even if it's tracks, you know, you're still enjoying them.

That's fantastic.

Could you talk a bit about the move to play nine ball?

Because you did pretty well in that as well, didn't you?

Oh yeah.

Well nine ball was, that was more of.

Well the history of nine ball on, on Sky TV is basically goes back to a time when sky decided they didn't want snooker on tv.

They spoke to my, my agent manager Barry Hearn who was involved in making TV programs for sky snooker programs.

I think somewhere down the line the, the, the, the person who made the decisions in sky said we don't want snooker anymore.

And Barry Hearn being a great salesman said well, well got this other game, you might like this.

So nine ball Paul was, was, was brought into the scene and sky decided they liked nine ball pool as if it fitted their demographic, whatever that was better.

And so Barry Hearn started putting on nine ball pool events.

And one of the first events he put on was a rip off of the Ryder cup of goal, the Moscone cup named after the great Willie Moscone pool player.

America versus Europe.

So it was held in Bethel Green, not far from the brewery where we first DJed and York hall and the Moscone cup was born.

Actually the first one wasn't there but the Moscone cup made its name that you'll call and it was Europe versus America.

But there were no English UK based pool players.

Nine ball pool players.

There's all eight ball pub game.

So Barry, Barry invited me, Jimmy White, Alex Higgins as hired hands to give a familiar face on the European team.

So we had to learn how to play nine ball.

So that's how it happened.

And it was a great ch.

It was a great journey because I didn't know.

Yeah, I can, I've got a stick and a ball, I know what I'm doing.

But it's a different game entirely.

So you have to learn the rules, tactics and then the only good thing was that there was no expectation on our standard, so the, the pressure was off a bit.

You know, I didn't know the shots but, you know, so.

But I could still get a ball in the hole and I slowly learned from the European players and the players I played against how to play the game and had some real good fun playing, playing it.

Yeah, it was really.

It was.

I'm not too sure it'd be the same as a techno DJ being asked to dj country of Western and enjoying.

Yeah, enjoying the fact that I don't know what I'm playing here, but I'll just put this one on Dolly Parton.

Is that.

Is that all right?

Or.

I don't know.

What about Loretta Lynn?

What.

I don't know.

Is that.

Right.

Should I.

Doesn't matter.

So I got away with it a bit.

Was that fun in its own way?

Like just, just learning something that's totally new there?

Yeah, it was good fun.

Yeah, it was a good challenge as well to learn, especially the tactics, which.

Totally different.

Different and, and some of the shots as well.

But it was just, it was a.

It was good fun.

But I, yeah, I was still playing snooker so I never fully committed, so it was just every now and again I played it and I fortunately quite enjoyed the challenge of learning the tactics.

Was the atmosphere different?

Oh, amazing.

Yeah, it was much more laddie boozy atmosphere and it's got even worse now or better, however, so.

Yeah, so there's two events that I've seen recently that I sort of maybe, you know, the shootout snooker, where they, they really encouraged to have a drink and, and the Moscone cup, which I think was at Y call this year, and there the, the punters are encouraged to have a beer.

It's, you know, it's happy hour all the time.

I don't know.

But it's, it's a lot more vocal and aggressive than say the, the, the quieter world of Snow Nuka.

Yeah, I mean, the darts.

If you, if you didn't have alcohol at a darts event, you'd have a slightly different atmosphere to the one you see on our TV screens.

Yeah, I'm sure it'll happen at some point.

The other thing that I want.

I'll have a check in a minute, see if there's any questions.

I've not gone over the other big one that I thought would be interesting to talk about is you put, you put on Magma gigs, didn't you?

Yeah, yeah, well, because Magma was my favorite band in the 70s somewhere down the line I was in a record shop in fact.

Yeah, top of the courtrooms are Virgin Records in Tottenham Court Road at the time.

And I stumbled upon a record that was Magma related and I. I lost touch really knowing what was happening with them and listened to the record, thought it was amazing and thought, oh, wouldn't it.

I've got a few quid now.

Wouldn't it be good fun to.

To hire them, put them back on in the uk?

Because I think the time before they'd been on in the 70s, like mid-70s was the last time they played in the UK.

And yeah, my first ever.

First and last time promoting.

Didn't know what I was doing.

I just paid.

I just paid the bill basically.

And, but what slightly was that?

The problem with that was when I used to watch Magma back in the 70s, there were five people in the band at most but they.

The whole troop was 14 people.

So that was 14 hotel bills in London.

So I just, I did my brains in.

It was great.

Yeah, that's not cheap.

What's it like retiring from something that you love and that you've been part of so long?

I retired well past my sell by date and as a result of my father passing away, it felt like there was a release that I didn't have to play anymore because I was part of.

My father and me were a team, sort of snooker team.

He was my sort of overseer coach, so sort of wingman type of thing.

And towards the end of his life he was sort of not bedridden but he was staying at home.

So I was still wanting to play just in case I could get to the televised stages to give him something to watch and still part of the team.

But then when he passed away it was like, oh, oh, I can now retire because I wasn't really enjoying the last few years of having to go through the.

The practicing more or less getting beaten all the time.

So that wasn't really sort of so much fun as winning.

Trust me, it's not.

And, and, and I sort of.

I lasted a plenty of years.

Maybe maso masochistic tendencies.

I could still get over losing and getting back on the practice table and sort of g myself up.

Oh, maybe this will work and that.

But then when I first, when I finally was able to retire, retire, I was so far past my sell by date, as I said that maybe it was not a chore.

The bigger problem would be in sport, if you had to retire very early in your life and you weren't really prepared, you weren't ready to retire mentally, but physically, you had to, because you weren't good enough.

Yeah, well, strong enough, so, But I didn't have that in snooker, so.

Snooker players don't necessarily get that by the time they retire, they're probably, they probably had enough of it or they've, they've had enough of the going to the practice table every day.

So that wasn't a chore.

I don't know what it'd be like for a musician.

Maybe because they fall out of love with playing.

Maybe.

I mean, I could understand how you would be, you'd be fed up with touring.

That must be, that could become something you just don't ever want to do again.

Because that, because basically most of the day is not playing.

You know, that's the, that's the, that's the.

Probably the nice bit.

The rest of it's just a chore.

I can understand how that would be the case place.

Yeah.

I guess your biggest challenge as a musician is as a singer, because it's like depending on the type of singer you are, for some scenes you just can't.

Like, me and my friend was talking the other day about, like, because we went to see Jamiroquai, and most of the singing's still on point, but there's a few of the higher notes that he dodged, which is fair enough, isn't it?

You're not going to be able to hit the same notes.

We're saying, like, how do people like Bruce Dickinson go on tour for, like, like two months at a time?

Yeah.

Amazing.

Yeah.

You, I mean, you gotta, I mean, I, I, it can become, you know, it's addictive in as much as it's a lifestyle that you actually like, but it's, I don't think you know what you're going to be like until you actually fully commit to that.

Yeah.

And obviously there, you know, there's one level, there's a, there's a financial requirement, but somewhere down the line, if you're in a position where you can choose, maybe you then have to reassess how much you're enjoying it, but it's all down to how much you enjoy enjoying.

Yeah.

Yeah.

The traveling's obviously the worst part, but you, you know, you can get used to anything.

Yeah.

And I guess, like, it might be where, like, it Sounds like you're just naturally.

You've got this, like, natural sort of way to cope with that snooker pressure.

Maybe he's, he's just got a voice who just physically can just keep going and keep going and keep going, you know?

Yeah.

And mate, we've all got different drives as well, you know, some people can still, still are driven by what they do do as a, as a, as a career for longer in their life than others who are ready to jack it in and change, change jobs.

I don't, I don't know, but I, I know full well that Nico McBrain's retired recently.

I'm not too sure that, you know, maybe from health perspective, but somewhere down the line you've got to go, oh, I don't fancy this anymore.

So it's pretty brutal.

So just to give you a bit of context, Steve, because I think we're coming to the end.

I, like many people in the uk, used to watch.

I used to go to my grandma's house and I just watch a lot of the snookering.

For me, you were like Superman.

Just, just a minute, Sorry.

And like, I.

Sorry.

And then for me, like, you were like Superman because you would just win all the time.

And like, I thought that was great, but I know there was, was like, like people, there was people that would, like, didn't like that because you just win everything all the time.

But, yeah, I thought it was great, but I remember when Stephen Hendry came along and started kind of doing the same thing, I was like, oh, God, he just keeps winning everything all the time and stuff, you know.

What was that like for you?

Well, it was, it was a horrible time.

But it was also a time where I used to be.

Probably found out a lot about myself, you know, that, that I, I was.

Because at one stage you think you're invincible, next minute somebody comes along and proves you're not, because they've jumped, they've raised the bar up more and you have to deal with that whichever way, shape or form.

But that's basically the circle of life a little bit.

But, but going.

I don't know how, I don't really know.

Like, look, sort of, I've got over that, you know, what, what period of time that was where I really hated, you know, beating myself up, going, what am I doing wrong?

Instead of saying, stephen, Andrew's great, I was blaming myself.

That happens a lot in sport.

That so many people remember where they were when they were watching is an absolute honor and a privilege to have been part of that.

And we have this quite often that people talk about having great memories with their grandfathers, grandmothers, parents of enjoying a life where social activity was a lot stronger.

And, and this is something that I think is really lovely to have been involved in is that snooker has given people so much enjoyment and so many people have lovely thoughts of when they were with their grand and grandma and it's sort of lovely, lovely.

So you know, I, I get the feeling maybe these bring up the emotions that you know, of childhood emotions that is, is something that I think is, is something that, you know, for all of the sort of winning or the losing when you look at it, to have been involved in something where so many people get emotionally involved in it and even families, which is brilliant.

Where families get annoyed.

What one, the dad likes Alex Higgins, the mum likes me or whatever round it.

Whichever way around it was to think that that was happening.

How crazy was that?

So, yeah, so that lovely thought.

So the, the Stephen Henry thing for me was this like, you know.

Yeah, yeah, grow a pair and get on with it, you know, you know, so what, you're still playing Stuka but obviously in that moment it feels like the big, big part of your life.

But yeah, and then the next result, next thing is another somebody else comes along and Stephen Henry's not there.

Then Ronnie comes.

It's just, it's forever happens in sport but when you're tied up in it, maybe you don't think that baby.

So I had some bad moments but God, I was still going down a club, practicing all day long and, and, and doing a few TV adverts.

It wasn't a terrible life.

Yeah, yeah, I guess, yeah.

It must, it must have taught you so much about yourself.

Yeah, but only about one part of it I think.

How to sort of, how to sort of try and get on with the next next thing.

And maybe, maybe the thing it does teach it is not to be too self important in the end that you actually realize it's probably good to have a sense of humor to be able to sort of get over things and not take things too seriously in your own world that you throw your teddy, your toys out the pram.

So that's probably the thing that teaches you.

So sport, I think sport is a great level in that respect.

You very rarely ever have it your own way in sport for that long.

If You're a golfer, you know full well that you cannot control the ball all the time and you have to accept that.

And I think perhaps in sport in general, you have to, you have to really sort of go, okay, I might be the best player in the world at one stage, but I'm only a keeper of that trophy because somewhere down the line there's another, there's another batch coming through.

You don't think, yeah, so that, yeah, that sort of, you know, as long as you enjoy what you're doing in that, you know.

So I think the most important thing is you probably learn that what it is you get out of it is not the winning or the losing, it's the enjoyment of the, the challenge.

So, yeah, so that's probably the same as dj.

I don't know whether or not one of the fun things is probably the, the build up to a DJ slot where you've got to try and decide what you're going to play.

And that's quite enjoyable.

Yeah, that's exciting.

The actual DJ spot itself will go how it goes.

But that, the thing I've got do it.

I'm soon doing it, I think, like last part of January.

I'm DJing in the sauna, right?

So DJing in the sauna.

I, I don't think I'm in the sauna, but I think they sort, they sold a certain amount of tickets.

People go in the sauna, they've done it before.

People go in the sauna, have a sauna for I don't know how long.

And I'm DJing and they're piping the music in.

Well, I'm really looking.

I don't know what the night's going to be like, but I'm really looking.

Trying to work out what tracks to play.

Play ambient tracks to play for people in the sauna.

Yeah, yeah, amazing.

My, my, my life now is predominantly making music and listening to music, collecting records, still putting a few albums out in the year this year.

And then I work for BBC.

BBC doing the three TV shows at the 3D TV events that BBC show.

The Masters, the World Championship and the UK.

That's just gone a little while ago.

And those are the things that are me dipping back into my day job and enjoy enjoying that.

And that's it, really.

And then sort of trying to keep off the streets, obviously dry.

January's coming up.

Gonna have to sort of, of I might have a shave before Christmas.

I don't know.

Yeah, all these things, you know.

Yeah, but I mean, I'm, you know, 68 now, so I mean, you know, you know, in one respect you're supposed to retire, but I, I'm not going to do that.

I feel like I'm Peter Pan still.

But I don't know we're doing that.

But enjoy the snooker and then I enjoy music and that's it.

So it's been a pleasure being on here because, you know, talking about DJing stuff and things.

Yeah, I know he's talked about snooker but I really enjoy talking about music in general, so it's wonderful.

So thank you very much for having me.

Me on.

No, no, thanks for coming, really appreciate it.

And just where can people find you online and find more about the band.

The band.

The.

The Utopia Strong on band Camp and yeah, it sort of leads you in the directions.

I think we're on Spotify now with.

We took.

We were off it but we went.

Oh, gone.

Yeah.

So I think you can, you can listen to the Utopia Strong.

It's all instrumental electronics.

Electronic.

Yeah.

Skullduggery more than anything else.

Pretty trippy, pretty trippy stuff.

Nice.

What you were saying before about whether you do like a.

Like a solo modular synth gig.

I can't imagine anything more intense than that.

I imagine the crowd that would come

to like a modular synth gig, mainly nerdy people.

So you're all right, you're on.

You know, they understand the problems but it's much more fun doing it with somebody else.

So I now do modular of the synth things with a friend of mine in Bristol and we just do duos as well and that's nerve wracking enough.

But he pretty decent Gaz Williams, so that's handy as well.

But it's good fun to try and go.

All improvised, totally improvised.

And that's.

That's a journey, seat of your pants stuff.

So I know it's not so Easy to improvise DJing but you are a certain amount, if you're able to mix and all that.

That.

Yeah, that's the fun of it.

That's it, yeah.

Amazing.

Well, yeah.

Once again, Steve, thanks a lot for your time today.

It's been lovely to chat.

Absolute pleasure.

Thank you very much.

All the best for everything.

2026.

Cheers.

Come on.

Oh, that was nice.