The spotlight in this episode is shining on Visier Total Rewards. This solution allows teams to analyze the full scope of their total rewards program: salaries, hourly pay, bonuses, share grants, and more – giving companies the visibility needed in order to control workforce costs, ensure compliance, and solve pay-related challenges.

Joining us on this episode to chat about Visier Total Rewards is general manager, Sean Luitjens.

Learn more about Visier Total Rewards.

Connect with Sean Luitjens on LinkedIn.

Think you'd be a great guest on the show? Apply here.

Want to learn more about our work at GrowthMode Marketing? Check out the website.

This podcast is brought to you by GrowthMode Marketing.

Welcome to The HR Tech Spotlight Podcast.

2

I'm Deanna Shimota, CEO

of GrowthMode Marketing.

3

The HR technology market is crowded

and we know it can be hard to find

4

the best software solutions for your

business in the sea of sameness.

5

On this podcast, we shine a spotlight

on some of the best up and coming

6

technology options out there.

7

Check it out if you are interested

in learning about new innovative

8

solutions available in the market.

9

And if you are with an HR tech company

and interested in being considered

10

for a guest spot, stay tuned for

details at the end of the show.

11

Good day, listeners!

12

The spotlight in this episode is

shining on Visier Total Rewards.

13

This solution allows teams to analyze the

full scope of their Total Rewards program.

14

Salaries, hourly pay, bonuses, share

grants, and more, giving companies the

15

visibility needed to In order to control

workforce costs, ensure compliance

16

and solve pay related challenges.

17

Here to chat about Visier Total Rewards

is general manager, Sean Lutyens.

18

Sean, it's so great to

catch up with you today.

19

Sean Luitjens: Nice to catch up with you.

20

And obviously someone who writes

English better than me wrote that.

21

That's very well read.

22

And someone in marketing

should be very happy.

23

Deanna Shimota: I can't

take full credit for that.

24

Seeing as I took some of it

off the Visier website, right?

25

But thanks for joining me.

26

You and I have had a few chats and you

have a really interesting role in Visier.

27

Obviously Visier is a fairly good sized

company, but your team operates, you In a

28

different mode than a lot of the company,

you're more entrepreneurial, right?

29

Sean Luitjens: We are.

30

Visier as it's grown has what our

CEO calls a flywheel strategy.

31

And so they've got the core business.

32

And as they test out new businesses

or incubate new businesses, or

33

as we should say, put them in

GrowthMode, try to figure things out.

34

Yeah.

35

Which they put them off to the side

and what's called the flywheel.

36

And that flywheel basically is

an experiment to see which part

37

of that business works well,

do we get the messaging right?

38

What's our ICP?

39

And so you're not disrupting

the rest of the business as

40

you go and figure things out.

41

So in essence, it's like having a

startup with one backer that's pretty,

42

pretty close to you and looking over

you, but so it's a little bit of

43

a tweener, but , basically it's a

startup inside of a mature company.

44

Deanna Shimota: Yeah, that's really cool.

45

So tell us a little bit about your

background in the HR tech space.

46

Sean Luitjens: Oh man it's always

a little worrisome because it

47

goes back to last millennium.

48

I've been around talent acquisition

expatriation, compensation, benefits

49

with a number of players, almost

always some type of startup or fix

50

it and leave it type of situation.

51

I come from Dev.

52

So I've been on the dev side

almost all around software.

53

The one thing I haven't done has

been a practitioner in house.

54

And I usually joke that I haven't done

that because that job looks like it sucks.

55

You have to work with people and do

everything else versus slinging code

56

and, helping build cool products,

but that's the way we help them.

57

But Yeah been around, a lot

of stuff since last millennium.

58

And then landed at Visier a year

and change ago as they wanted

59

to start up this flywheel.

60

Deanna Shimota: So let's talk a bit about

what Visier Total Rewards actually does.

61

Sean Luitjens: Okay.

62

To start with Visier if you think about

people analytics, putting all your data

63

in there and looking at it analytically

across the whole spectrum of what humans

64

do and how you operate your company

65

That's where Visier plays they usually

have the nine box or the four box

66

or whatever we call it, where the

cool kids are in the top, right?

67

And the less cool kids

are in the bottom left.

68

Visier is always the top company there

the reason that's important is they've

69

grown to a lot of direct clients.

70

And then actually where Visier

is embedded into partners, we

71

have over 70, 000 clients now.

72

Yeah.

73

What's really cool with that.

74

And the reason that's important besides

sounding good for Visier is they started

75

looking at where, else can we use this

data to help businesses drive decisions?

76

So if you think about having

all these analytics inside of a

77

company, that's great, but then

how do I start to drive decisions?

78

And so one of the areas was in the total

reward space, specifically benchmarking,

79

because they sit on obviously 70,

000 Companies worth the data millions

80

and millions of records of employees

and their compensation and where they

81

are in the structure as well as then.

82

What's the number 1 way to implement

decisions and drive people's behavior?

83

And that's with pay.

84

They wanted to start and do an experiment

to start a flywheel around comp

85

benchmarking and compensation planning

by which you run the merit cycle.

86

Yeah.

87

And doing it analytically driven.

88

And then the cool part would be blue

skies, rainbows, and unicorns, right?

89

Being able to take and look at a

comp planning cycle and say we had

90

a theory on what we wanted to do.

91

So a lot of people talking like the

merit matrix I want to pay people who

92

are lower performers, less money, higher

performers, more money based on where

93

they are in the compensation range.

94

And we have a philosophy on how

much spread we want to create there.

95

Were we right?

96

Yeah.

97

Like most companies don't look back

and say, analytically we did it.

98

They're like, Oh, thank God we were

done with the comp planning process.

99

That sucks.

100

It's no fun.

101

And then they basically come back

around to it nine or 10 months later

102

to do it again, because it's painful.

103

We were looking at it at

Visier saying can we do that?

104

And then can we go back

and say what worked?

105

What didn't work?

106

Did people who were low

performers, we gave them zero.

107

What happened?

108

The goal is usually you

want them to leave, right?

109

Or did they just become

crappier performers?

110

What happened?

111

Did high performers

paid high in the range?

112

Did they do what we wanted them to do?

113

Or if we paid them less because they're

high in the range, did they leave?

114

Because we didn't want them to do that.

115

So really leveraging analytics

into something that's actionable.

116

Which is a long winded answer.

117

Deanna Shimota: No, that's really good,

and I think you've touched on this a bit

118

already but let's dig a bit deeper into

what are the big challenges or problems

119

that you see facing teams where total

rewards would be a great fit for them?

120

Sean Luitjens: Yeah, so I think Kind of

the soapbox I get on is get greedy now.

121

So in the past either the tools weren't

mature enough or the number one player

122

in comp planning with decisions is Excel.

123

And so depending on how adept you were

at pivot tables or VB script or how

124

great you were with Excel that drove

your compensation planning philosophy.

125

Because I had to send out spreadsheets

concatenate spreadsheets back.

126

And then if I want to check things

like pay equity did I make equitable

127

decisions when I gave managers discretion?

128

Did they the usual old school,

did they give their old?

129

The guys they played golf with on

the weekend, more money than the

130

people who are actually affecting

their business and high performers.

131

Can I make sure there's equity checks?

132

That was all really difficult to do.

133

And so I think the ability for

companies to have a more well thought

134

out pay philosophy driven and tied

to the business performance, like

135

what's driving the business and

use their money for merit better.

136

The example I give is

accountants a lot of times.

137

So if I'm making widgets.

138

Instead of giving everybody in the

company a 4 percent raise because

139

that's what we have, I might give

the accounting department a 2 percent

140

raise because I want to give in

the widgets a process manufacturing

141

or process engineers more money.

142

But at the same token, if I'm a

public accounting firm, accountants

143

are the lifeblood of my business.

144

I want to give them more money, right?

145

And someone else get less money.

146

And you have the ability to

bifurcate all that spend out and be

147

much smarter with your spends now.

148

And that's really what

we're helping companies do.

149

Anybody in the space.

150

There's a lot of players in the space.

151

Really trying to help companies maximize

their spend because the merit budgets.

152

are tough, right?

153

If every year you have to spend

4%, it's a it's an annual growth.

154

It's a compounded annual

growth rate on your people.

155

And so how do you maximize

that spend equitably?

156

Deanna Shimota: So it's really

making companies more strategic

157

about how they pay people.

158

Sean Luitjens: Yeah.

159

And I've joked with some of the comp

and the business owners, like in the

160

past, again you could fall back and

say we have to give everyone the same,

161

or we can't be too strategic and split

them out and treat people differently

162

or departments differently or locations

differently because it's too hard.

163

And actually now it's not too hard.

164

Now you have to start thinking

strategically or have the ability to

165

think strategically and say, how do

I actually look at every business?

166

and tie them together.

167

And then analytically the business,

the thing with people analytics

168

it may be a misconception is it's

just the people data, but it's

169

also the data that goes with you.

170

And coming from development, I'll use

story points the way that developers

171

measure a lot of how much effort they do.

172

You could tie story points to it.

173

You could tie to compensation.

174

If you worked at a convenience store,

number of gallons of gasoline, Revenue,

175

profit, number of bags of Cheetos last

quarter, if that was the special you

176

wanted to push, all that data can now be

ingested in from an analytic standpoint in

177

a company to say, how are we treating our

high performers and how do we drive the

178

business forward and what are the metrics

that help our business move forward?

179

And then, of course the flywheel

is spun up around now that we

180

know all that stuff, how do we pay

accordingly and reward accordingly?

181

Deanna Shimota: Yeah, I can see where

this type of information could be really

182

powerful and keeping your best people

and the people that are most influential

183

on the success of the business, right?

184

Because so many companies,

it is just here's the flat

185

4%, 3%, whatever they decide.

186

Here's the dollar amount we can invest,

and it, doesn't seem like it often gets

187

divvied up in the way it should, because

some people probably do deserve more,

188

or they're way behind pay, but they're

one of your top performers, right?

189

It's gotta be more than a,

percentage that you look at.

190

Sean Luitjens: I think you create that

merit matrix, and I think managers,

191

two for companies because people

forget like it's a very personal thing

192

doling this out at the end of the day.

193

So it's always nice on paper to say

we're going to pay high performers

194

high in the range, less than high

performers, low in the range.

195

And we're going to pay low

performers wherever they are

196

in the range, less money.

197

That's all great on paper.

198

Yeah, that's fine.

199

But when you go to a high performer and

you're like, Hey, Deanna, you're amazing.

200

And I know we pay you great, but

because we pay you great, doesn't

201

matter that you're amazing.

202

You're getting less money.

203

And with pay transparency, you're going

to have to be able to explain that.

204

And I think managers will like that

because right now there's a black

205

box that says You're going to be like

thanks, but that was less than last year.

206

What the hell is that about?

207

And now you can say actually based

on where you are in the range,

208

the position, your score, the way

that your short term incentives

209

are built out, here's your number.

210

It's mathematic because at the other

end of the spectrum, you have this weird

211

stuff where if someone's not a one,

they're a two and you're like, Deanna.

212

Hey.

213

Marginal year.

214

Like here's enough money to cover part

of the Netflix increase next year.

215

That's a really hard discussion.

216

And then the human and human

resources is people forget you

217

got to then go back to work.

218

After I had that discussion with

you, I have to work with you again.

219

So it's not like I get to drop that

bomb and then see in 364 days, like I

220

got to start working with you the next

couple of days so I think having that

221

explanation and validity behind how you

do it and making sure, I think people

222

want to know they're paid equitably.

223

So the other piece would be, hey, men and

women, because gender is the big one right

224

now, is men and women work paid equitably.

225

We have a system that checks to make

sure that people were doled out based on

226

performance and it's equal pay for equal

work, irregardless of all the reasons that

227

people have been paid unfairly before.

228

Deanna Shimota: Oh my gosh, it's so

fascinating, just this whole topic, right?

229

How would you say Total Rewards is

different from the other solutions

230

that are out there in the market?

231

Sean Luitjens: we're addressing

it from the analytics side.

232

The foundation of our

tool is all analytics.

233

We're trying to basically give

the administrators of the tool

234

all the analytics to basically

split that out inside of a

235

company and say, I want to give.

236

More money to accounting, less money to

accounting, more money to this region,

237

create a very intricate merit matrix

if you wanted to, to the deciles, you

238

can go crazy on a merit matrix and

then somehow be able to translate that

239

compensation nerd dumb into letting

managers who have to do this once a

240

year, maybe twice a year who aren't

from compensation, be able to say, now

241

I need to give this out to my team.

242

This is the suggested allocation.

243

Here's some things I want

to make it different.

244

The example I use there is I don't think

there should be a lot of discretion

245

personally with managers, but some, so if

you and I both are very good employees,

246

I'm going to give myself credit here.

247

I'm, sure you're great.

248

I'm great Deanna.

249

And you and I are the same and we're

similar, but the manager decides that,

250

Hey, Deanna is much more of a team player.

251

Sean is a pain to work with.

252

And so I want to shift some money around,

give them a little bit of discretion.

253

But one of the quotes I really liked

from someone was unbridled management

254

discretion is the enemy of pay equity.

255

And so you've got to balance

discretion with that, but you want

256

to make that easy for the term.

257

And so we've come at it from

the UX standpoint for managers.

258

Yeah.

259

And employees first and say the manager

experience of being able to give the

260

money out, understand where it's at and

the manager of managers experience, being

261

able to look at my teams that's first and

foremost, and it's analytically driven.

262

That's about as much

sales as I'll probably do.

263

Deanna Shimota: I know Total Rewards

within Visiers is relatively new in the

264

grand scheme of the company as a whole.

265

What type of impact have you

seen organizations have as you're

266

implementing this and working with them?

267

Sean Luitjens: A couple of things.

268

So Visiers had Total

Rewards for a long time.

269

They've had a suite in there, so you

could do budgeted comp versus actual comp.

270

You could do some things.

271

The Total Rewards business is an

expansion of that to push that into

272

the merit or comp planning cycle.

273

The annual pay increase

cycle or semi annual.

274

So the impact we've seen is a company's

being able to make that a little

275

smoother, be able to , have a pay

philosophy where they want to be.

276

And I guess getting away from Visier,

I would say what it's allowing and

277

forcing back to the prior point is

companies being able to say, where

278

do I want to be and then do I have

the data, put that data in, and then

279

I can use the tooling to get there.

280

I usually quote because

obviously I'm a little bit of

281

a hippie, so really well read.

282

I'm going to quote Cheshire

Cat from Alice in Wonderland.

283

If you don't know where you're

going, all roads will lead you there.

284

And so again, what's really cool

is seeing companies that had a

285

fairly simplistic compensation

planning philosophy be able to create

286

something really intricate to really

drive and tie it to the business

287

with all the business analytics,

and then be able to have managers.

288

Use the tool in a much faster

method and communicate with what's

289

given to them inside the tools

and pay letters that reflect what

290

would happen in the discussion.

291

And so creating a holistic process that's

analytic driven, it's cool to see not

292

to nerd out from a comp standpoint and

actually allowing some of the compensation

293

and companies that are dealing with

compensation, live out their dreams.

294

We'll call it Hey, I've always wanted

to be able to have a more complex

295

thing that aligns to the business, but

it was too freaking hard with Excel.

296

And now we can do that.

297

Deanna Shimota: So what type of

companies would you say are the

298

perfect fit for this solution?

299

Sean Luitjens: We, struggle a

little bit with the company size,

300

but I'd say 500 employees or more.

301

And it's based on complexity.

302

If you have to send out a bunch of

spreadsheets, there's issues with security

303

and there's issues with some other things.

304

But to be fair Microsoft Excel is

still the Leading compensation planning

305

software provider because the price

is right for Excel and Google docs.

306

It's hard to beat free.

307

And at some point if I've got few enough

spreadsheets, I don't have huge spans

308

of control inside of a small, mid sized

company to make these analytic decisions,

309

I can look at it on one big monitor

and, see if there's equity it's there.

310

But if you're complex, you're distributed

and you start to get to that size

311

where, I really want to create a pay

philosophy that's differentiated.

312

It's equitable for equal pay in the

right bands across multiple locations or

313

countries, geographies, different roles.

314

I want to make sure that's done

equitably and I want to have managers

315

of managers and be able to roll that

up and administrator money down.

316

That's where you start

to see the complexity.

317

Come from there.

318

And that includes companies who want

to do base pay, short term incentives,

319

long term incentives anything you

would do in your kind of annual cycle

320

whatever your, rewards program entails.

321

Deanna Shimota: Sure.

322

So what would you say is the biggest

hesitation or obstacle that you see

323

companies have as they're thinking

about a solution like total rewards?

324

Sean Luitjens: I think for professionals,

it's what's your return on investment.

325

And this will sound

horrible in, some ways.

326

Comp professionals have been

remarkably creative in solving

327

these problems by throwing their

efforts, their skills at Excel.

328

If you ever want to figure out something

in Excel, call someone in compensation,

329

it's amazing their Excel skills.

330

And then the amount of time that they'll

put in to work around these things.

331

So the time savings piece

doesn't always fly for ROI.

332

And you probably know this too.

333

If they're in compensation, they're

like, Hey, you chose compensation.

334

Or compensation chose you, whatever case

it may be, however you got to your career.

335

And so during the comp cycle you

give up three weekends of your life.

336

That's just part of being in this role.

337

So the ROI, that's been the

hardest thing is companies saying

338

I want to get out of Excel's free.

339

So you have to somehow go up to

the head of HR to the CFO and

340

say, I want to buy software.

341

And if it's just to make my

life easier, that's not it.

342

I think it's where you

hit on a little bit earlier.

343

I want to retain my people.

344

I want to reward the best

people with the best.

345

I want to make sure we're

equitably doing this.

346

The thing with merit matrices is it

helps solve pay equity over time.

347

Because if you've underpaid women

over time, they're lower in the range.

348

People lower in the range of more funds,

you can do pay equity, set asides,

349

you can do set asides for departments.

350

You can handle all these

complexities to make sure that

351

we're treating the best people.

352

The best the people in the middle

and our underperformers aren't

353

taking money away from other places.

354

You can start to look at things

like actual versus budgeted.

355

Did the good people leave?

356

Was our thesis right when we

basically created a pay philosophy

357

and between that and the security

issues and allowing managers to do

358

this in a way that's simpler and

they can understand that's where I

359

think you have to hang your head on.

360

And I would say there's our solution

or anybody else's if you're looking at

361

technology like this, that saves you time.

362

I think you've got to tie

it to business results.

363

Otherwise, it sounds awful,

but, CFO doesn't give a shit if

364

you're in comp and you have to

spend three weekends doing this.

365

So it's how can I really

help the business?

366

And the CFO, the way you hit

them is Hey, you're giving me 4%.

367

I can make that 4

percent go a lot further.

368

I can make sure that we don't have

retention issues, the high performer

369

stay that costs us this much money.

370

To train or get people up to

speed, linking all that stuff

371

together is really important.

372

And that's the holistic people

analytics view of looking at

373

everything, not in a silo.,

374

but holistically.

375

Deanna Shimota: Yeah, that makes sense.

376

Because the reality is

there's ripple effects, right?

377

To being more strategic about your comp

and suddenly, like the turnover rate

378

for your best performing employees.

379

It's lower, they're staying longer.

380

They're getting promoted to bigger

positions because they're happy.

381

Sean Luitjens: Yeah.

382

And I tell you from an HR standpoint, get

greedy with what you're trying to measure.

383

I used to get greedy a lot.

384

The example I'll use is

how is talent acquisition?

385

It's not even a total rewards thing.

386

How are they measured?

387

Talent acquisition is usually

measured on time to fill a

388

number of requisitions filled.

389

Is that really great for

your long term business?

390

If you think about how I

want to measure a recruiter.

391

over a period of time, an internal

recruiter or a recruiting partner.

392

If you have a third party

firm, how long did they stay?

393

How much revenue did they drive?

394

What was turnover of those people?

395

6, 12, 18, 36 months down the

road did they get promoted?

396

That's all on the table now.

397

So really start thinking

like what are the drivers?

398

And in the past, it would

have been unrealistic, right?

399

like, how do I find that data?

400

How do I pull it from an HRS?

401

How do I analyze all that data, those

analytics and where they came from?

402

No way, in Excel from four

or five different systems.

403

But now there are systems that you

can look at your people analytics and

404

The real premise of people analytics

platforms is the ability to pull in

405

data from multiple sources, normalize

it and allow you to ask crazy complex

406

questions and get an answer back that

you're like, Oh my gosh, actually from

407

this recruiter, the average length of 10

years, so they fill less recs per year.

408

So you might think, Oh, they're a

really crappy recruiter, but actually

409

when they fill recs, like they stay.

410

Deanna Shimota: That's a really good

example to demonstrate that it's more

411

than just the numbers you can easily find.

412

Sean Luitjens: Yeah.

413

And again, I don't think it

was ever anyone's intention to

414

hide behind the numbers.

415

I'm sure somebody was . I'm a little bit

of a hippie finding the good in everybody.

416

I think to your point, it was like,

Those were the numbers I could get.

417

I was in control of talent acquisition.

418

I could tell how long it

took me to fill a job.

419

I could tell how many

recs I did every year.

420

Then I had to go find from multiple

HRAS systems the system of record, the

421

payroll record, the business systems

records and pull all that data 10

422

years ago 15 years ago, no chance.

423

And now, actually, sure.

424

Not a problem.

425

You get a platform that normalizes it all.

426

You can ask those questions

and be like, actually.

427

This is the new metric for us to beat.

428

It's not time to fill.

429

You might actually find out any

time that we filled a rec in

430

under 20 days, they never stayed.

431

Like we got in a hurry

and we just couldn't fill.

432

So actually we need to have a, process

and it takes us this period of time,

433

they stay in their great employees.

434

Again, you have to have the analytics

to be able to look at that though.

435

Deanna Shimota: Yeah, most definitely.

436

So what is the future vision

for Visier Total Rewards?

437

Sean Luitjens: It's hard to do

in a graphic, but if you think

438

about all these siloed processes

inside of compensation technology.

439

In my little world where you've got

data and you organize the data and

440

you create grades and you do pay

and then all these little processes

441

almost making them all integrated.

442

And it's all an ongoing process.

443

That's analytically driven.

444

The world's changing so fast right now.

445

If you think about , when I got out of

school, people say to jobs 15 years,

446

then it was 7 years and now it's 3

years and you can't act at the same

447

speed that you had before and if you

think about even just pay cycles, like

448

our pay cycles, doing one pay cycle

a year, then might be what you want.

449

But if you want to do two

or four, you can do that.

450

Because if you think about someone who

used to work somewhere seven years,

451

they would get seven increases, right?

452

Yeah, someone's only working

somewhere three years now, you only

453

get three times to make it correct.

454

So you've just got to

be able to go faster.

455

And I think for us, the vision is Can

we allow you both the administration

456

and the managers and the employees

to make analytical decisions based

457

on align to the business and do that

really quickly and timely with not a

458

lot of lift making the data side easy.

459

So I know it's a little bit , blue skies,

rainbows, unicorns, but I think we're

460

getting pretty close to that pot of gold

at the end of giving them that and again,

461

so jokingly I've said, I think now.

462

Companies in HR need to figure out like,

how creative can I be with my program?

463

What is really driving our business

and get greedy and look for tools

464

that can actually deliver that.

465

Deanna Shimota: Yeah.

466

So what final thoughts do you

want to leave our audience with?

467

Sean Luitjens: The thing I usually

leave people with is there's a

468

lot of great technology out there

469

that, you can go at.

470

And there's several different

providers even in our space

471

alone, there's several places.

472

So really take a step back and figure

out what's driving your business.

473

From the human standpoint, the

people side, what are the things

474

you would like to measure?

475

What are the goals you need?

476

What people, things have to happen

for your business to be successful.

477

And then back into what data

do I need to figure that out?

478

Because all of the tools are tool

people, analytics do you have the data?

479

Where does the data have to come from?

480

And then go pick your tool, which I

know pains me to say sometimes Deanna,

481

because I'm on the software side.

482

So when I tell you the third thing you

should do is look at software, it's

483

a little bit painful, but I actually

think figure out where you want to be

484

first, because there's a lot of people

telling you what you think you should be.

485

But every business is unique.

486

What drives that business?

487

The data you need, and then go find

the tool that can deliver on the,

488

things you want with the data you have.

489

Deanna Shimota: That is great advice.

490

So where can our listeners go to

learn more about Visier Total Rewards?

491

Sean Luitjens: So you just

head to Visier, V I S I E R.

492

com.

493

You can tool around the solutions, you can

tool around wherever and, figure it out.

494

And I'm always happy to chat.

495

Obviously, I get a little

fired up about this stuff.

496

I'm always happy to chat

with people where they're at.

497

I think It's amazing to me how

different everybody's program is because

498

everybody's different is different

and everybody's business is different.

499

Their philosophy is different.

500

Their analytics and their

total rewards requirements are

501

different for each business.

502

Deanna Shimota: Great.

503

I will be sure to include the

link in the show notes so our

504

listeners can check it out.

505

And last but not least, thanks so much for

joining me on the HR Tech Spotlight, Sean.

506

Sean Luitjens: Yeah, this was great.

507

Thanks for having me.

508

Deanna Shimota: Thanks for listening

to this episode of the HR Tech

509

Spotlight Podcast, where we showcase

some of the best up and coming HR

510

technology options in the market.

511

If you are an HR tech company leader

who would like to be considered for

512

a guest spot on this program, please

contact me via growthmodemarketing.

513

com or reach out to me,

Deanna Shimoda on LinkedIn.

514

And if you found this show informative,

subscribe, connect with us on

515

social media and leave a review.

516

This is Deanna with Growth

Mode Marketing signing off.

517

Thanks for listening.

518

We hope you'll tune in again next time.