"Don't focus on the PNL to manage the PNL; focus on your people." ~ Jaime Mansour

Do you want to create a thriving restaurant business with a motivated and loyal staff?

Are you searching for a proven solution to improve employee retention and boost your business performance?

Look no further!

In this session, we have a special guest, Jaime Mansour, VP of Operations at True Food Kitchen, who will be unveiling the key to achieving this desired outcome. Jaime will be sharing a powerful strategy to enhance communication, foster trust, and establish accountability within the restaurant industry, leading to a highly efficient and successful business.

Get ready to unlock the secret to building a strong team and achieving exceptional results in your restaurant!

In this episode, you will be able to:

• Delve into the importance of company culture and investing in employee development for business advancement.
• Decode the dynamics of effective communication, trust-building, and responsibility within the restaurant industry.
• Investigate the correlation between granting workplace freedom and workforce retention.
• Recognize the significance of employee benefits and mental health initiatives, especially in the hospitality industry.
• Unravel the best practices for assessing and managing workloads for a productive and stress-free environment.

To dive deeper into this episode, click here.

Welcome back to another episode of turning the table.

My name is Adam Lamb, and I'm here with my cohost, Jim Taylor.

And and as always, we are discussing staff centric operating solutions

for restaurants in the hashtag.

New hospitality culture, and we have a great guest for you today.

And someone who's been on the inside track of this for a while and has a proven

track record of, of actually making these concepts actually live and real.

So.

We're going to bring in Jamie Mansour who is the VP of operations for

True Food Kitchens in just a moment.

And Jim, I, I'm kind of curious because we, you know, again, what

happens when you invest in your staff?

You know, we've got some, some questions about like, okay, so.

I think most of us have kind of empirical idea of what it would look

like if we invest our in our staff.

And yet there's probably some operators that are a little reticent to do.

So I'm reminded of the fact that there are some folks who are still

trying to make up ground financially from the pandemic and the shutdown.

And that's also another interesting thing about your food kitchens and

Jamie, the way that they actually approached the shutdown and continue

to open restaurants all the way through the pandemic, which a lot of.

Places weren't but I guess the question comes up, like, how do you actually

know What to invest in, how much to invest in, if you don't have deep

pockets, how can you still become the preferred employer in your market?

And I think that there's things that Jamie is going to talk about that are going to

be eye opening because there's some things that sure are going to take a rethinking

of our financial performance the way that we might invest in training and and other

benefits that there is an associated cost with, but how do you calculate that ROI?

Because I think sometimes it's not as apparent as, as some might think,

does that make any sense, Jim?

Yeah,

for sure.

And I, and I think, you know, from some of our previous discussion with

Jamie, I think there's going to be some interesting, And just good insight on,

you know, everybody's about growth, right?

And so some interesting insight from, from him a little bit about, you

know, responsible growth in order to properly take care of people,

you know, what that looks like in terms of, you know, investing in

career path and that kind of thing.

You know, I think they're, they're a brand that has really strong

buy in and, and, you know, I think Jamie's a good part of that.

So looking forward to having some good discussion with him.

Yeah.

And then I guess the last question I would have again, as

an operator is how much is enough?

At what point do you see what traction you have and pull back?

And you know, I think we're on record of, of saying, you know, if you're not talking

to your associates, you're actually missing the boat because they're the ones

that are actually going to educate you.

As to what's what enough is enough and, you know, I don't

want to give away the whole fish.

You know, but I just liked you to think that you know, it's going to

smell awful well when it's finished.

So we're going to be getting to those questions and more and bring

on Jamie right after these messages.

Welcome to turning the table.

The most progressive weekly podcast for today's food and beverage industry,

featuring staff centric operating solutions for restaurants in the

hashtag new hospitality culture.

Join Jim Taylor of Benchmark 60 and Adam Lamb as they turn the tables on

the prevailing operating assumptions of running a restaurant in favor

of innovative solutions to our industry's most persistent challenges.

Thanks for joining us.

And now onto the show.

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And we'd like to welcome Jamie Mansour, the VP of Operations

of True Food Kitchens.

Welcome to the show.

How are you?

Good.

I'm doing great.

Good morning, Adam.

Good morning, Jim.

Thanks for having me on.

Oh, it's

such a pleasure, sir.

As, as I mentioned to you in our little DM swap that we had the other

day, I'm a big fan of the concept.

I remember how it started.

I'd like to say that I've been to a bunch of them, but I haven't.

But from what I understand, you're, you're coming to North Carolina soon.

Yes, sir.

Yeah.

We're excited.

We've got two actually opening one.

And End of next year, then another one in 2025.

So we're, we're coming to your home.

Fantastic.

And

Adam, if you haven't been, you're definitely missing out.

I mean, I think I've only been to two locations, but it's.

It's always for sure a go to if we're, you know, down in the U.

S.

So we got to get one in Canada eventually here, Jamie.

Get one

in your backyard.

I'm, I'm, I'm very much trying, right?

As one of the only Canadians in this group, this is the, this is the button

I'm trying to push all the time.

As the only Canadian in the group.

Now, Jamie, that's kind of an interesting place to start.

So for those who aren't.

Perhaps familiar with the concept itself.

And your story, can you kind of give us an idea of, you know, where

the concept started, how you came to be, you know, you had to cross

the border in order to jump on this opportunity from what I understand.

Yeah.

So I, I mean, I had heard of this brand and really the, the, the gentleman who

started this brand, Sam Fox, and then Dr.

Andrew, while I heard about this brand about 10 years ago and in my old

previous role You know, the CEO of our company had really talked really

highly of true food and what they were doing and really of Sam Fox.

And so I still remember my first trip 2012 with my girlfriend, who's now my wife.

It was the Santa Monica location.

And as a restaurateur for, I mean, 20 plus years, walking into a restaurant

and seeing the hosts happy, the servers happy, the chefs, to my heart, because

I was a chef to start my career.

In almost the middle of the dining room, prepping the food in front of you.

I was, I really just, I mean, encapsulated by what the brand was.

So much so when you travel to the U.

S.

from Canada, you try to hit at different spots.

And I actually had, I ate at True Food four days in a row.

And I remember telling my wife, If I ever get a chance to work for

this group I'm going to jump at it.

You know, fast forward to 2016.

I applied, I think, for probably every single job on the website for True

Food Kitchen, including restaurant manager, sous chef, and I got a call

back and, you know, I ended up staging in Phoenix and the first location,

which was in Phoenix, in Biltmore which is about, you know, five minutes

from where our office is right now.

They liked me.

They gave me an offer.

I was a previous vice president of operations and they asked me if I would

come to the company and run my own location, which my ego took a little

shot, but I was excited just to get down and work for the group and started

my journey and the Denver location in 2016 and there's some good story

about that Denver location.

I think we're going to get into, but I mean, that must have been an

interesting leap to just move, you know, like you said, take the ego hit,

take the Take the family across the border and all that kind of thing.

But so besides seeing the, the, you know, prep happening in the dining

room or basically in the middle of the dining room, they're not

prepping on a restaurant dining room table, obviously, but for those that

haven't been to the concept, but.

You know, things like how good the food was and eating there every day and,

you know, seeing how the place operated once you have started to meet people

in the organization, did you obviously you had that same type of pole, right?

I mean, what was it about the company when you started talking to them that made

you make that call?

Well, I would say first as a, as a previous chef, I mean, the food was,

I mean, that's really the thing that catches you right off the get go is

how we prepare the food, the real ingredients in the food, the way we handle

our food, the way we source our food.

I mean, a lot of restaurants claim to be healthy, but we, we actually were

started by a a a, I know, renowned doctor of integrative medicine.

So the food was the first part, but I really think the people side and the

culture of where the brand really thought about people and growth and development

and career paths, that was really the thing that made me really feel like that

was part of something big and, and great.

Mm-hmm.

and really, you know, when I was, you know, talking to my colleagues or friends,

they were like, I can't believe you're going to the US to work for a group.

And I'm like, It's not just the restaurant group though, right?

And to be able to talk about the way we talk about people and culture and

really believe in it, you know, for me that was a huge part of moving my family.

And it didn't go without some struggles.

I remember the drive from Denver to Calgary and my wife crying the whole

time wondering what we were doing.

But I want to take a leap of faith.

And when you believe in something like I believed in it you kind of go all in.

And that's kind of how I felt at the time, so.

Amazing.

And now you've been with the

company for how many years?

Yeah, seven years, seven years this, this past July.

So it's been a journey for me.

Wow.

Well,

congrats on the, on the success.

I mean, like you said, legal faith, but with the right

organization, it's paid off.

So, okay.

So we were talking before we jumped on about this story about the Denver

experience.

And

I think a lot of conversation and discussion say, we want it to be

about this, you know, investing in people and making sure that they feel like

they're a part of the business, which is can be a bit of a sticky discussion

in the restaurant industry, you know, whether people are replaceable or what's

the career path or is there even one.

Can you tell us a little bit about the story of what Denver was like when you,

when you got there, where it is now, what process was like a little bit and sort

of, yeah, well, I mean, yeah, I mean, when, when you get

hired into a company you know, you, you hope your first project is, you

know, the best run store in the brand.

And at this point, you know, Denver was, we had 10 locations and Denver was.

Number 10 out of number 10.

I think it saw, you know, six GMs and six executive chefs in a four

year span turnover was, you know, well over probably 150 to 200%.

There was really just a lack of culture in the restaurant.

And so when I got into that restaurant, you know, your first inkling is,

yeah, how do you attack maybe profit or how do you attack sales?

But, you know, I really felt like for me, it's like, how

am I going to attack people?

And how am I going to, like, kind of gain this trust of this team

and move us in the right direction?

And, you know, it was interesting for me as someone who didn't really

know too much about the brand when I started, but I knew a ton about

people and what that looked like.

You know, I went in there and, you know, the first three months I'd really

kind of told my direct report, like, we're not going to worry about profit.

We're going to worry about, right, like career paths.

We're going to worry about having one on one conversations.

We're going to really get this team and this boat moving in the right direction.

And, you know, I was really lucky at the time to have a director who, you know,

kept his hands away from like talking about, you know, some of the words

you don't want to talk about, right.

The labor and the food cost and what we were doing.

And I was like, Hey, what are you know, for me, that was the first inkling

of just walking in here, creating a, you know, a foundation of trust.

And then really like kind of practicing what I preached, right?

It was, you know, you had a bad shift, you spoke about it, you had a great

shift, you high five about it and then you started really digging into staff

and like what was making them tick, how long they've been in the restaurant,

what were some of the things that they, you know, listening to your team.

And that's a huge part of, of sometimes where operators misses

your team will know the answers and our staff knew the answers.

They knew we couldn't get food out fast enough.

They knew service maybe wasn't quick enough.

Maybe they knew the facility wasn't clean enough.

And so, you know, we focused on that.

And I mean, I think I started in September of 2016.

We're the number 10 location.

And when we got to January 2017, we're the number one location and in the, in the

brand and here we are seven years later.

And that store is, I think a top three store in the brand for us.

So I'd like to think like the work we did with the team there.

Really pay dividends.

And now you see it.

I mean, that's the true nature of, I think, this, this business, right?

You send the right message.

And here we are 7 years later, and it's right there.

So it was a, it was very much.

I wouldn't say it was an overnight success with a lot of hard work.

But I will say the work that happened was really more, you know, 90 percent

people focused because I think people get you the results in this business.

And the 10 percent we were getting was, you know, growing sales, growing

profit no turnover in the restaurant.

So, you know, I always feel like that's in seven years in the Brad's.

One of the things that I'm most proud of is where that restaurant kind of ended up.

So, so you just, you just

commented on something that I just have to touch on this.

You said that you were listening to the team about things like ticket times and

food quality and restaurant cleanliness.

I think, I think that is rare because even in my experience in restaurant management,

Adam, I'm curious your take on this too.

Typically the stuff that we listen to the staff about is.

I want a better schedule.

I want a bigger section.

I want to learn a new station.

It's stuff like that.

Right?

It's, it's, you know, for the staff to feel comfortable to come forward

and say, ticket times aren't good.

You know, there's, there's got to be some, some trust there, I think, right?

And some

safety.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I think you need to like, one of the first things I remember, like the

back of my hand, the first week I was in there, I grabbed some of the best people

or who I thought the best people were.

And I sat him at a table and I said, I'm the next hour is just going to

be about you talking to me about the things that you love in this place

and the things that are going wrong.

And the common denominator and, you know, maybe the top three was communication

and effective communication, right?

Trust between both teams.

right?

And then the ability to be able to hold people accountable to

a standard of right excellence.

And it's funny, you listen to your people, they'll give you

the, they'll give you the answers.

You just, you just have to kind of push your ego aside and understand

right where it's one common goal.

And what's the goal in restaurants is to make the guest

experience really, really great.

And have people that are really excited to come to work.

I think that's probably point number one in this discussion of

reinvesting in your associates and team is, you know, doesn't take anything.

Didn't cost you any more money.

It costs, it costs time, which of course has an equivalent dollar value.

But, you know, when you talk about.

The first question that you ask yourself when you're walking into an operation

that's running as, as the brand new guy, like, how, how do I gain the

trust of my people because they'll never get to a point where they feel

comfortable enough to actually tell you what's wrong unless you invest in

that in that emotional piggy bank.

So I think the way that you went about it is it's, Both smart,

both intuitively and emotionally.

But this whole idea of like, step number one is ask your team and ask your team

in such a way that allows them an opportunity to actually be honest, right?

I remember clearly being in walking into an operation where nobody

trusted upper management at all.

So I could ask all the questions I wanted, but that was never

going to get any answers that were actually going to be actionable or

what's going to change anything.

And those who did speak up.

We had an agenda, but, but that, that time of like, and, and the other thing

that strikes me as, you know, good on your boss that, you know, he actually

listened to you and said, okay, for three months, we're not going to talk about

profit, we're not going to end a lot of I imagine that there's lots of folks out

there that don't have that benefit of someone who's going to watch your back so

that you can work on your people first.

So not only were you very forward thinking, but so is that person.

And I think one of the things that you mentioned right before we got on

the show is kind of a testament to the time served and the effort exerted

in that Denver location is that chef is now your director of culinary

organization over 40 restaurants.

I mean, that's

pretty cool.

I mean, it's, it's a proud moment to know that me and the chef started

at the same time and now we're both sitting in an office trying to

make a bigger impact on this brand.

And so we always kind of pinch ourselves when we travel, we get on planes together.

We were just in Florida, you know, last week.

We're in New York next week, and it's always the, like, I can't imagine

how far we came because there was some, there was some tough days where

you're like, are we in the right spot?

What are we doing here?

Right.

Six days a week and, and thinking about, you know, is the juice worth the squeeze?

But, you know, I, I think full circle to kind of think of the

journey I, I think sometimes just a testament to the, the people.

And I always say the people in that location, which I'm still proud of.

I can go to that Denver location and.

You know, maybe 20 of the staff that I hired back then are still there

seven years later, which to me is like, it's a place of home there.

So for

sure, I have one question before we move on, because it seems,

I mean, the video shot is, is pretty self explanatory, but there's, for

those who are listening to the podcast, there's this huge poster right in back

of your head with a swish above it.

And from what I understand you spent, you, you take that

everywhere with you because you spent time as a basketball player.

Did you

not?

Yes, sir.

Yeah.

I mean big, big, big basketball fan, a big basketball player growing up.

So, and so how did your time with sports and you know, your

identification with the Nike brand, do you find that that helped influence

the way that you viewed team and team performance within the hospitality

industry?

Yeah, great.

I mean, great question.

Number one, I would say if I ever interviewed somebody who played sports,

I always feel like we're on the right path because they understand teamwork.

They understand accountability.

I think, you know, my first love in this world was sports and basketball.

And I really felt like getting into the restaurant business was like

the closest I got to how I felt.

As a crowd cheering for you or the camaraderie you feel in a huddle or a

locker room was the same thing you feel in pre ships or lineups or when you

see a guest really happy or when you see somebody growing and developing.

And so.

I always feel like, you know, the two loves besides obviously my wife and

my children were basketball first and then the restaurant business second.

And I've been very, very lucky to do both you know, basketball for

10 to 15 years of my life and now restaurant business for 25 plus years.

But I always believe sports sets you up for the success you need.

And it teaches you accountability.

It teaches you honesty.

It teaches you, I mean, for me communication, what was a huge

thing, being able to communicate on the court with your teammates or

with your coach and take coaching.

That was something that I really, you know, learned at a young age, how to

take coaching and be accountable to it.

And then really in this business, it's about, it's about empathy and it's about

listening and it's about communication and communicating effectively.

And I mean, I think sports sets you up for that in this business, right?

So would you say that it also kind of at least introduces

the idea of kind of selflessness?

Selflessness and, you know, service to that particular mission of, you know,

whether it's winning or winning the shift or and that's not something that

comes natural to folks of a certain age group because, you know, so much

is about them and like, how do you actually shift that from an immature

standpoint to a mature standpoint if you don't have something like the

cauldron of, of, of competition in order to kind of distill that out of you.

Yeah, I mean, great point.

I mean, I winning for the shift is something that resonates to me, right?

We, we, we win daily, right?

A.

M.

and P.

M.

And I always thought that was funny.

It's like, let's just win today and then we can talk about tomorrow.

Obviously, in this, in this business, you have to be thoughtful

and you have to plan and the best leaders are the best planners.

But I mean, don't make it harder than it is when today, right?

It's Thursday Wednesday.

So true.

You were talking a minute ago about, and you didn't use this term,

but kind of doing focus groups with some of the people in the restaurants to get

some feedback, you know, back to one more sort of question about that, you

know, not to jump all over the place.

But

I remember there were times in, in sort of in

my corporate career where I think we attempted to do

that type of stuff and maybe didn't do a very good job at it because we,

we gathered people together in an effort to get good feedback and build

community and build trust and whatnot.

But then we didn't do a very good job of actually acting on the feedback.

So it actually, I think the way that we, the mistake that we made

was it actually worked against us because the team went, well, we told

you, we didn't need to do anything.

So was there a specific, you know, process or anything that you did to go, okay,

now we've been told, now we got to...

We gotta act because that's part of some of those people are probably

some of the ones that still

work there.

I would assume.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, great question.

I mean, I was when you were talking to the 1st, the 1st thing that came into my head

was like a goal without a plan is a wish.

So it would have been great to sit down and hear about all these things.

And not do anything.

And I think what we did in this group or what I've done in, in,

in multiple times in my career is you make sure you write it down.

You come out of it there with, you know, 3 to 5, not, not 100,

3 to 5, like main points, right?

And then you got to build the strategy and then those points

have to be spoken about daily.

And I think in business, those are, I mean, the best leaders,

they don't talk about the plan.

They got a strategy and then they execute the plan.

And so for us, it was really about like, you know, what are the 3 things

we're going to take out of this meeting?

And then we're going to talk about them so we don't have to talk about because

they're part of our culture, right?

And then we're going to find three more things to talk about.

And then for me, it's always, I always feel like in this business,

you, you talk about, you talk about people, you talk about communication,

you talk about trust, you talk about these things, you get results.

It's never, you know, there's a saying of like, don't focus on the P& L to

manage the P& L, focus on your people.

And so for us, it was really, it was really people stuff, right?

Like, hey, we're going to make a decision as a group that.

We're going to trust each other that if we make a mistake on the floor that

you're going to be able to grab a manager and know that manager is going to have

your back and make sure that guest has been recovered or hey, if the kitchen is

running long ticket times and they seem stressed out, you know, you as a manager

are going to get ahead of that table and talk to that table and make sure

that they're there you know, they've been communicated with, so I think it

was a plan and a strategy, and then you came back to the plan every single week,

every single pre shift, and you made sure you gauged your success of that.

How are we doing?

And then the ultimate success is You know, like I said, three months

later, our sales growing, are people happy, are your guests happy?

And they'll tell you what you need to know.

And then you've got to find new problems, which I think is

the best part of this business.

It's that's why you, I think that the ones that stayed at long enough

know that not every day is the same.

Yeah.

It's, it's really not about the act of getting

the people together and trying

to listen to them.

It's about the action that comes from it.

Yeah.

Definitely.

I was

reminded of basically I worked where every year

they did an associate survey.

That was supposed to be anonymous and I remember kind of

cheerleading this entire process.

When I got there, it's like, this is your opportunity to tell management, you know,

where it's at and where we need to go.

It was coordinated by HR and again, there was this kind of distrust, but

that, you know, okay, so we've done this before and nothing ever happened.

Right.

So it's 1 thing to actually offer the opportunity for feedback.

And operators can now with technology, the way it is, they can use sites

like type form, job form, survey monkey to create these anonymous

surveys, not only for their for their guests, but also for their associates.

But then, you know, you need to follow that up by sharing that feedback and

then your plan to actually execute because there's nothing worse than

like, Hey, I'm, I would really like your opinion just so I can ignore it.

Yeah, tough place to be, tough place to be and not,

and not a place you want to be.

Right.

Like, let me hear that.

Let me hear your opinion and not do nothing with it.

Well, to

Jimmy, and I think that that was kind of, I think that's what

you were kind of alluding to, like having all this information and then

not really doing anything about it.

Right.

And.

And then I think it's probably human nature to, like, consider that for a

moment and then pivot to somebody else that maybe you quote unquote trust

more like the guest or, or or, or managers in your area or stuff like

that, when in fact your associates are the ones who are telling you.

Mm

hmm.

Yeah.

Jamie,

you were talking a little bit about again, a comment you made earlier

around 150 to 200 percent turnover in that one location when it wasn't going

well, you know, you don't have to share with us a specific percentage of turnover

for the company at this point, but are there things that true food does or that

you do that are like non negotiable?

These are things we do in order to

drive good retention rates.

Yeah.

I mean, great question.

I think that's an ongoing for us, like a mission for us is to try to get ourselves

in a position where the turnover, because I think, I mean, obviously everybody

kind of hit that wave in the COVID where you, you know, you're losing people

and people are leaving the industry for other jobs and finding their careers.

I think for us, it's, I think on my own personal like journey with, with,

I think turnover has really been about.

Being really honest with people and showing them that there's career paths

for them, you know, one of the things that we really kind of, I would say in the

last few years really stuck to is just a mentorship and key hourly program, right?

Like, almost like an apprentice program where people can learn.

As servers or bartenders as hosts or to go people that can really get

into this position or into this Into the leadership aspect and I think

that's been a huge part of what we do.

I make no mistake though I think the the stores that do it the best

for us on the brand are the ones that speak about it more, right?

They speak about great culture.

They speak about great training.

They they sit down and talk to people One of the things I did as a director

that I thought really helped me is, is, you know, I made our GMs, you know, put

up staff lists in their office and then each month it was, you know, the GM or

the AGM or the chef's responsibility to sit down with every single team

member and really go through strengths and go through weaknesses and, and

what do they want to learn and where do they see themselves as a month?

If you were a grill cook and you wanted to learn, you know, a sauté

station or a wok station, here's how we're going to get, get you there.

So I really think just like, yeah, Looking at people as people who want

to do more and really investing in that conversation and being honest with people.

I think the best restaurants in our brand are the, have the leaders

that actually put that first, right?

And you walk into a restaurant and you can see the looks on their face.

They're happy.

They engage with you, they engage with the guests.

And I think our ability, number one, I always feel like we've got a really...

a leg up on the competition because our food and what we stand

for is, you know, really at the top, I think, in this cuisine.

But I also believe, like, the way we look and we talk to our people and the way

we treat our people as we move forward.

I mean, it's almost been overnight, I think, for us this last year,

just to see turnover go down.

No if I'm not mistaken, management turnover this year is

about 15 percent down from last year, and that's what you want.

Hourly turnover is close to 20 percent down from last year, and that's just from

us having more one on ones, having more conversations, really doing more career

pathing for people and then really giving them an opportunity to see this business

like I saw this business 25 years ago.

And I think that's a huge part of this business in general, or any

successful business is people, right?

And moving your people in the right direction, and then being honest

with them and listening to them.

So what's, what's your

thought on the connection between autonomy and, and retention rates?

I was reading an article this morning about how Apple is moving

more and more towards this.

Rather than take your best people and put more work on them, take

your best people and give them more

freedom.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Great.

I mean, it's, I think there's a level of autonomy in this

business that you earn with trust.

And I think, I think for us, I mean, obviously at a leadership level, we don't,

nobody ever wants to work for somebody who micromanages their performance.

I think, to be honest, it's one of the things I really enjoyed when

I first got into this group is, you know, we had system standards.

Things that, you know, process to get us from A to B, but the autonomy that I had,

and that I think we still have to be able to find solutions to be able to come up

with some of those answers and then to be able to have somebody in the back end

that if they don't know the answers you can talk to, I think there's a, there's

a fine line, I think, you know, autonomy is gained by trust and by performance,

but I also believe like, you know, somebody said this to me, and I thought

this was a really, really great thing.

It's like, it's okay to walk up to people, put your hand

on them and say, I trust you.

Thank you.

And I know you're going to be great.

Now go be great.

And I think sometimes in this business we try to like micromanage everything.

And I think leaders, I mean, leaders, some need some sort of autonomy.

I know hourly staff, they, I mean, if we've got great hourly staff that are

great at making money, great with the gas, we want these people to be great.

If we have to step in and, you know, give them communication about things

that we want to see improved or just to just show gratitude to the performance.

That's where I think, you know, our jobs as leaders, right.

Praise.

Right.

And if things aren't going great, coach, be honest and, and, and

then be celebrating with them when they get the results that you want.

So amazing.

That point, I mean, would you also agree that, you know, with a

certain amount of parameters, you know, you want to empower your hourly staff or

your line staff to be able to say, move with a certain amount of autonomy to make

sure that the guest is happy and happy.

Thank you.

That they end up leaving happy so that, you know, maybe there's

appetizers, desserts that they're empowered to be able to afford.

Or you know, the great interaction between the front of the house and

the back of the house where like, there's never a quibble about, you

know, having to refire something or, you know, those types of things.

That's also kind of a great breeding ground for that,

that future type of autonomy.

Would you

agree?

Yeah.

A hundred percent.

It was, it's, it's still the thing that I'd still love really dearly

about the brand is, I mean, it was always like, we just fix it.

Right.

Yes.

Yes.

Our, our saying was always, yes, is the answer.

Now what's the question, right?

If there was a problem and a guest, you know, Hey, I have a

first time guest at this table.

We want to be able to buy an appetizer.

It was like, you've got, you've got the autonomy to go do that.

Or, Hey, I You know, if we find out it's somebody's birthday

in one of our restaurants, it's an automatic free dessert.

And, and the servers get to do that.

And from a chef perspective, which you know, how I started my crew as a

chef, I, I think the autonomy that we have and that we give our chefs when

it comes to, to creativity or creating dishes, you know, I was in one of our

restaurants and one of our chefs, I had my daughter with me created this.

you know, trio of desserts that I wasn't asked for.

It's like, Hey, Jamie, I made this, right?

Like knowing you were coming and I wanted to show you.

And I was like, well, this is, that's the type of stuff that you could see

the look on his face when he brought it.

And then the look on my daughter's face, when she got to

eat, it was even, even better.

Are there, well, let me just back up for a second.

It's, there's been a lot of press made about shifts in some organizations since

the pandemic to try to communicate care, safety value to the associates by.

By upgrading their benefits packages and or their rates within your

organization, true food kitchen.

Is that something that you've also focused on?

Or did you always kind of had a really solid package so that, you know,

folks aren't leaving for a quarter?

Well, of course, we, we know that no one's going to leave for a quarter, but because

I was looking at your website and it seemed to me that your benefits package

is Incredibly well rounded and balanced, not only from an operator standpoint,

but from an associate standpoint.

Can you speak to that a little

bit?

Yeah.

I mean, great.

And number one, I think in this day and age of this business.

Right.

Mental health wellness is such a huge part of what we do.

And obviously for me coming from Canada and our health care and going to the U.

S.

And trying to learn it firsthand, there was a little bit of a slope and anybody

who's Canadian will understand that.

But I do think like we've been able to take our health benefits over

the last seven years and really make improvements that help our hourly

employees and give them opportunities that they might not have had.

And really, at an hourly level, those are sometimes in big

companies were They struggle, right?

You know, they give these people benefits off hours, work and off,

you know, tenure and for a lot of our hourly employees because our turnover

has been so good from an hourly ranks and a lot of our, you know, states,

they've been, we've been able to protect them with better benefits.

And from a management perspective, it's only gotten better which I like

over the last seven years, even from joining the brand to where it was when

I started to where it is now, I think, I think the people in charge, So Of that

department have done a phenomenal job.

Just putting it front of mind and really making it something we talk about.

It's actually a part of, you know, when we talk about quarterly

meetings, health and wellness is a huge part of our group, right?

We can't be talking about our food and not talking about mental health or not

talking about health for our people.

So I've been actually really, really impressed by what we've done as a brand.

I still think there's work to be done.

And I think as long as we're having a conversation as a group and talking

about what's best for our people, it's only going to get better for us.

So yeah, great question.

And can you talk a little bit about what your experience has been

or perhaps what your team's experience has been working with Hooray Health,

which is your healthcare partner?

Yeah.

I mean, I mean, my experience on a personal level has been phenomenal.

I think.

You know, you're, you're a little bit tentative when you get over

here from a different country and healthcare is really paid for.

I would say that lightly, right?

I was telling you guys the story of like getting into the U.

S.

and trying to just understand the system coming from where I come

from, where everything was paid for.

And so my experience always, number one, number one, you know, you

have to have great people that can talk about it at our level.

And we have some really good benefits people that really walk me through it.

But then as a, you know, as a father to three kids and the amount of times that.

These kids hurt themselves or end up going to the emergency or to the doctor's

office just from a personal level.

I mean, the health care and the way we looked at it has

been so great for my family.

And it's, it's almost like we've got our, I mean, we've got two

boys that are born in Canada and a daughter that's born in the U.

S.

And I would beg to say, but besides the charge for the, for our American

daughter, the health care and the benefits were way better for us.

And then from an hourly perspective and just a management perspective,

I think our work with Hooray Health and what they've done for us.

And we really saw with Covid, right?

You can imagine the amount of times Hooray Health was involved in testing our teams,

making sure that that that was available for our teams keeping it front of mind.

And in the US and where we are in Phoenix right now, or any state,

I mean they're huge part of.

Just making sure that people stay healthy and they offer a service

and the availability for us, which I really had never come from in Canada.

So I think they've been a really great partner for us.

And I want to continue to kind of think that that's something that, you know,

even from a mental health standpoint is something we've got to keep talking about.

Because I do think in this business, it's been a, there's been a huge shift.

And just even having a conversation, it's been a huge part of why it should.

Yeah, definitely agree.

So Jamie, we covered a lot here.

Typically, and this is, it's, you know, I always enjoy talking about this

because when I, when I first started this podcast, one of the things we

wanted to be able to provide was one, we decided to do it on Thursdays because

maybe somebody could listen to something that they can actually do in their

own restaurant going into the weekend.

Like, what can I think about differently?

But we also wanted to try to make sure that there was some

sort of actionable, you know...

Two or three things that they should be considering if

they're operating a restaurant.

So do you have a couple of things like that that you can say, okay, Hey,

if I was going to start over again, or if I was running my own place,

here's two or three things I would be trying to do, you know, whether it's

starting today or, or thinking about

improving.

Yeah, I mean, I feel like there's probably a hundred, but I'll see if I can give

you the, there's so, there's so much that I've learned in this business and I feel

like I've been very fortunate to work with some really great people that, you know,

you take the best from the great people.

I mean, just even the topic of this, you know, this conversation and staff

and, and, and the return on investment and staff, I think there'd be one thing

that I would always say is like, I think people make this business go around.

And I think if I were starting today, the first thing I would tell any

operator is, right, if you're not in front of open, honest communication

with your team members daily.

Right.

And have that set up and plan to do.

Right.

So it's, it's part of your team's strategy is we're going to talk to

our people both front and back and talk to them about, you know, the

business, talk to them about their personal lives and their career paths.

I mean, I think you're missing an opportunity.

I think number two is listen.

It's funny when you grew up in this business and a lot of

leaders I met are very type A.

Right.

You know, listen more than you talk.

And I think in this business, I think sometimes you listen to your

people and you get the right answers.

You're not going to know all the right answers.

Even in my position, I mean, I asked for, I asked for constant feedback and I

think that's what makes you good, right?

You don't know all the answers.

And I think listening to your people.

So talking to your people, listening to your people.

And then I do believe like.

You know, strategy in this business and having a plan and following through

is such a huge part of what we do.

And I, and I think you said it, Adam and Jim, it's, it's great to have

conversations, but if, you know, hourly team members or managers are talking

to you and telling you things that they need you got to listen to them

when it's your job as a leader to make sure that they're successful, right?

And you're an investing in them and the investment that you put into your team

is investment you're getting back with.

You know, career paths and with growth in this brand and with more

money as you grow your career.

So, you know, I think talking to your people, you know, daily, I

think listening to your people and really, and being empathetic to that.

And then I think having a strategy on how to get your people

better and move them forward.

I mean, to me, that's, that's one thing that the best leaders that I've ever

worked with do better than anybody else.

Well said.

Brilliant.

Jimmy, we want to thank you very much for joining us today.

And you've certainly given us a lot to think about, and I've tried to keep up

as much as possible of like sharing it in the chat and making sure that we're

sharing this but we're hoping that you might come back and join us again and

kind of let us know about the growth of the company and as you start you know,

thinking about Boulder and Charlotte and and hopefully Canada in the next 12

months, because I know that you guys are also thinking about a new concept, right?

Yeah, we have a couple of things happening.

We're opening in Tucson, which is Dr.

Wilde, who started our brand, his backyard.

So we're excited about that.

But then we got a fast casual kind of spin off of true food opening probably quarter

one January, February, March of next year.

No name picked out yet, but we do think, right, we're pretty

excited to test our realm.

I think, obviously, quick service restaurants are the way of the future.

If you see in the U.

S.

Are really growing and expanding and we think we can food to that.

So that's exciting for us.

But we're, we're excited about Tucson.

We're excited about the fast casual concept next year.

And then, I mean, we're excited to come see you Adam.

I will make sure that you're you're part of our opening team.

So we won't make you go back in the kitchen.

No.

So

I don't mind strapping an apron on, you know, I still got my clogs.

It's all good.

You could do

it.

So, well, thank you very much, Jim.

Last words.

Jamie, just so good to reconnect

again.

And thanks so much for joining us.

We'll definitely have to have you back again.

I mean, there's, we could go on about some of this stuff for, for hours.

So always great to catch up and congrats on all the

success with the group.

Yeah.

I appreciate you both.

Thanks very much.

Good to see you again.

Good to see you again, Jim.

I wish your daughter a belated happy birthday.

I saw that.

You're very welcome.

Have

a great day, gentlemen.

It was a pleasure.

Thank you very much, Damian.

We really appreciate your time.

Thanks for watching another episode of Turning the Table with

myself, Adam Lamb and Jim Taylor.

And we'll see you next week.

Thanks for joining us on this episode of Turning the Table with

me, Adam Lamb and Jim Taylor.

We're on a mission to change the food and beverage industry for the better

by focusing on staff mental health.

Physical and emotional well being by proactively measuring

and managing staff workloads.

Join other hospitality professionals co creating the hashtag new

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This podcast was written, directed, and produced by me, Adam Lamb and Jim Taylor.

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