Welcome to another episode of Modern Financial Wellness! I’m your host, Jim Grace, and I couldn’t be more excited about this conversation. In this episode, I sat down with Matt Morizio, founder of Reconstructing Wealth—a financial advisor with a distinctive focus not just on dollars and cents, but on truly reconstructing our relationships with money.

5 Key Takeaways from This Episode:

1. Your Relationship with Money Is Inherited—But Not Irrevocable:
2. Matt’s story highlights how our earliest experiences shape how we think, feel, and act around money. But with awareness and intention, we can “break the chains” and start a new narrative for future generations.
3. Scarcity Versus Abundance Mindset:
4. Growing up with financial fear can drive lifelong habits of hoarding and scarcity. Learning to see money as a tool, rather than an object of fear or idolization, is crucial—and sometimes, that transformation comes from acts of generosity, not just earning more.
5. Giving Is a Game Changer:
6. Matt’s practice of disciplined, intentional giving—even when finances were tight—was the catalyst that rewired his emotional relationship with money. Through giving, he moved out of fear and into a more abundant, peaceful mindset.
7. Emotional Intelligence Is as Important as Technical Knowledge in Financial Planning:
8. Clients rarely come to an advisor for “money mindset work.” Yet, guiding clients to reflect on their values, money stories, and priorities often has a bigger impact than any stock pick or tax strategy. Sometimes, permission and empathetic guidance are what people need most.
9. Live Your Values, Not Just Your Numbers:
10. The best financial plan is one that supports a meaningful life—not just a big bank account. Matt’s approach is about marrying technical planning with what matters most to each individual: family, purpose, generosity, or unique life goals.

Mentioned Resources & How to Connect:

• Matt’s Free Video Course: DM Matt on Instagram @mattmorizio for a free link.
• Books:
• Think and Grow Rich by Napoleon Hill
• Happy Pocket Full of Money by David Cameron Gikandi
• Website: reconstructingwealth.com (check out the unique generosity tracker!)
• Follow the Podcast: ModernFinancialWellness.com

This episode is perfect for anyone curious about the deep-rooted stories we all carry about money and how to break out of default patterns to live a life of purpose, impact, and freedom.

If you enjoyed this conversation or want to dig deeper, don’t forget to subscribe, leave a review, and check out our growing library of resources. Thank you for listening—and remember, financial wellness is about so much more than the numbers!

So I'll just. I'll welcome you in. Matt Morizio of Reconstructing Wealth. Welcome to Modern Financial Wellness. Thanks for taking the time, man. I appreciate it.

It's good to see you, man. It's such an honor to be on. I'm psyched. I'm pumped. It's good to see you.

Yeah.

So we. I was thinking about this conversation and we've. We met like eight years ago now. It's been that long that we first bumped into each other.

Yeah.

And we're back then. Remind me, were you just getting into the business those. The early days? About eight years or so.

Yeah.

You got it. Early January of 2017, I officially became an advisor. Well, I. I joined. Joined vecbody, where we met, like, so that was my very beginning. So I don't know, rewind. Maybe a year before that, I was having conversations about it, but I wasn't yet in the industry.

Yeah.

So fast forward, here you are, you're about a year in to the new firm, Reconstructing Wealth. So congratulations on that. Huge.

Thank you.

Yeah, Yeah.

I didn't become a statistic or some statistic. I avoided one of those statistical pitfalls.

Yeah. Yeah. You made it.

That's great. So there was something on your website that kind of gets at the heart of the matter of what I wanted to. To touch on today that I think you. You put out there really well, which says, if I'm going to read this, we've learned firsthand when we can emotionally detach from money and use it for what it is, a tool to accomplish our life's purpose. In other words, when we reconstruct our relationship with money, our lives will change. And it seems like in getting to know you and reconnecting with you, that a lot of thought has gone into what the firm is all about and what you want to put into the world. Is that fair?

Totally fair.

Yeah.

I mean, it's plain as day right there on the page, main page of my site and in the name of the company, like, that's what I'm after now. People don't come to me, admittedly. Not yet, at least. Maybe if my brand does a better job of branding itself and building itself, maybe people will come to me for this. But nobody comes to me to say, like, hey, Matt, I think I have an unhealthy relationship with money and I need help. Like, of course that's not the entry point. And in the same way, people don't go to Jenny Craig and be like, I think I use food as a pacifier, and I need help with this. I emotionally eat.

You know, like, people go to Jenny Craig because they're like, I got a wedding in three months, and I need to lose 30 pounds and 6 inches on my waistline.

Right.

So people come to me and you like, I've got this money. I need help investing. I don't know what to do with it, and I don't. I'm in the dark. I need clarity on what my future looks like. Help me create a plan. So that's what people are coming to me for.

Yeah.

But, yeah, I'm case study number one in my own life where, like, I grew up really fearful of money and never changed that. Didn't even know that, actually, until I addressed it. Until I learned there was a. There was another relation, There was another emotion you could have toward money. And it wasn't even until that, like, journey that I went on, and I guess the transformation, the reconstruction that I went through that I realized, like, holy smokes, my life is different in. Not in, like, my bank account is suddenly fat. It's not. That's not what I'm talking about.

It's like, I'm more present with my wife. I'm more here for my kids. I understand, like, the value and the benefit of being blooming where I'm planted. When I'm at work, I'm working. When I'm with my kids, I'm with my kids. Prior to that, admittedly, if I'm being honest, it was like, I always carried this weight and burden of financial responsibility, which. Which hasn't gone away. I've always been the sole provider.

I have seven children now, married 15 years next month. So that hasn't been something that's left me. I've just learned how to relate to it better because I've learned how to relate to money better. And it's totally freed me up to be, I think, more of who I'm created to be.

Yeah.

Which is amazing. And that's. That's what I wanted to get into, is your journey and how that evolved over time, because it becomes very apparent talking to you and getting to know the firm and the work that you're doing. That it just seems like you're doing the right work in the right place in the right way. And kind of all those things have come together really well. So I'm always interested in the evolution and the journey. And so do you mind going way back when you say that you kind of grew up fearful of money? What did that look like? Or where did that come from? When you think back?

Yes, no, I don't mind at all. And you're doing the same work, man. You look at the podcast, you have like, this is the work. This is the conversation about money that needs to be had. Not the one of like, what do I invest in or how do I come up with a.

Which is funny as a sidebar and maybe we'll get into it if that's interesting for you to talk about. But you do have very specific approach to investing in the technical aspects.

Right?

It's kind of, it's a funny thing. Like, we do have opinions about the technical aspects and the two plus two equals four of things. But that's not ultimately what people come to us for, whether subconsciously or not, Right. There's these other things kind of clawing at them. So.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And maybe we'll get there. That'll be fun, right? Yes. My childhood. So I grew up really worried, like I said, really fearful of money. My parents divorced at a young age, so my mom was the one where I spent. I lived in my childhood home with her. So I was with my dad sort of every Wednesday and every other weekend.

That's kind of like that. That was the extent of my childhood and that's just. Was my normal. But my mother, I love her, she's a super generous, sweet woman, but she was very afraid, is very afraid of money. And I've learned that we now being a dad of seven myself, we pass on as parents a lot to our kids, sometimes verbally, often not. And it said like more is caught than taught with kids. And I caught, as we all do, like a pretty unhealthy relationship with money, mostly because society doesn't, doesn't allow us to talk about it, tells us not to talk about it. So we didn't talk about money in our home and she didn't talk about money in her childhood home.

And my grandparents didn't talk about money with their parents who are products of Great Depression era parents. So, like, that Great Depression era mindset just keeps getting perpetuated. That hamster wheel continues until somebody, if they choose to breaks those generational chains, says, like, we're not going to be that way toward money anymore. And I am choosing to be that chain breaker in my family to. Go ahead.

No, go ahead, you go.

I was just saying be the chain breaker to the point where I, I want to also do this in other people's lives because like I said, I recognize firsthand and I can get into the actual, like Specifics of stories and stuff to tell you. But my. As my relationship with money has changed, I know that my children's lives are different than mine will be. Not because I have more money for them. I just am passing on a healthy viewpoint toward money, like, not loving money. And in a weird way, when you feel like you don't have enough money and you're fearful of money, the other side of that coin is idolizing money. When you do have it, and it's both, Both sides of that coin are really unhealthy. But when you can see money for what it is, which is really an exchange of value, like I provide a financial plan for you, you think that's really, really helpful for you, in exchange for that help, you'll pay me something.

That's an exchange of value. You need your lawn cut. I have a lawn mower. I just solved your problem. That's a valuable exchange. Now if I charge you six grand to mow your lawn, you'd be like, that's not a valuable exchange. That's not worth it to me. You know, like, that's all that is.

So as I am able to have those combos with my kids about that, I know that they are going to see the world differently than I did growing up, and then they will be able to hopefully stand on my shoulders and build upon what I've learned, and then their children will hopefully build upon theirs. Like, that's what I mean about generational chain breaking.

Yeah.

Yeah, I love that analogy. And it's funny, that subject comes up pretty often on the podcast, which is this idea that before 7 or 8 years old, we're just sponges as kids. We're absorbing everything in our environment, trying to make sense of the world around us.

Right.

And if you don't do some work to think about that and think about your attitudes and your beliefs about money, it just perpetuates itself. And then you grow up and you pass that down to your kids, and those chains are never broken. So when you say, I'm curious, when you say that your mother was fearful, you kind of absorbed or inherited that attitude. What do you mean by fearful? Was it just a taboo subject and no one ever talked about it? Or was she super prudent, almost in a compulsive way? Like, what was that? What was her relationship like with money, do you think?

Yeah, more of the latter. When I grew up, it felt like there was never enough. I couldn't play certain sports because. Because she was just a single parent, according to her, you know, My dad was, is part of my life. He wasn't like, I don't know him. It just the day to day, he wasn't there to be able to help her with like the logistics of childhood. So some of it was like I couldn't get to certain things, but often it was like, we can't afford that. We can't do that, we can't afford that.

But beyond that, I remember, like, here's a specific example. I remember this is a little later than five to seven. This is actually I was in college at this point, so I had already. What was done was already done in me. You know, this is just. Yeah, we're just reinforcing all. Everything that's already been baked into me. But I'm coming.

I remember coming back. I went to school at Northeastern in Boston, and I'm coming back for Christmas. I don't know what I was doing. I'm running an errand or something. So I'm at home at this time during Christmas. Winter in Boston is cold. We lived in my childhood home, which was too big for my mom, but she still lived in it. So oil heat to heat that size house.

And it wasn't giant house, maybe 2500 square feet, 2300 square feet, but still for one person, that's a big spot. And to heat it with oil heat was really expensive. I remember coming in the door during that Christmas break and to go into like the living room where you watched TV or hung out, you'd go down a hallway into the kitchen, take a right and you enter the living room. So I go, and I take the right. And as I'm taking the right, there is a giant heavy blanket just draped in the doorway because it was just like an open door frame is a heavy, heavy blanket draped. And I had to like peer behind it to see if my mother was even there. Like, what? Like, hello, is anybody here? Because all the lights are off, of course, because you got to save on electricity. And I go in and it actually is noticeably warmer in that room where I like peeled the blanket back and there was my mother in her like in home down jacket sitting on the couch.

And I was like, what are, what are we doing here? What's this blanket? And she essentially, she was effectively cocooning herself into a room and utilizing her own body heat to be able to warm a room up so that the heat could stay down around 58 or 60. And I remember as a child being reprimanded, scolded, like screamed at if, if I forgot to turn the heat down when I left the house, you know, like, I was going out to play, she was at work, and I was going out to play, and I didn't put it down to 60 or 58. I. I heard it. I heard about that. More than bad grades, more than anything else. So what that, like, taught me was like, you have to conserve. Not a problem.

That's not a bad mindset. It's only unhealthy. When it tips into, like, it controls you, you don't control it. I was really fearful, like, there wasn't enough money. I would never be able to outpace whatever it was that I was living. So I better conserve, learn how to squeeze a quarter out of a nickel. That sort of mindset, like I said, can serve you. That scarcity mindset can serve you to a degree.

It'll teach you not to overspend on things that aren't worth whatever you're spending.

Right.

But when it. When it frames your every thought and every decision around money, buying things, paying bills, all of it, like, it unknowingly, it wound up this super fearful, unhealthy person when it came to money.

Yeah.

It's interesting, too. I wonder, do you think. Do you get a sense that your mother needed to be in a down jacket in the middle of winter with the heat way down? Was it that tight for her as a single parent, or was she fearful herself? And it just. It got the better of her and now it's extreme, and she's living in that type of situation. Situation. Because that balancing act that you just described is interesting to me because we shouldn't waste.

Right.

And we should be spending money on the things that are important to us and meaningful to us. But there's this fine line between prudence and a compulsion.

Right.

Where it goes over the line. I'm just kind of curious. Did. Did she need to do that because of her financial situation, or could she have turned the heat up a little bit, just experienced money a little bit differently?

It's a good question, and I actually don't know the exact answer because I only know what I knew as a child, which was there was never enough. And we better hoard, conserve, and do all the thing. All the cost cutting measures that we can take, we got to take them.

Yeah, yeah.

But here's what I can tell you now as an adult and being her advisor and her encouraging her to retire, because I can see her picture and know her plan. She. And I'm sure you see this, she runs up to the risk that we don't necessarily think about. But it's very prevalent in retirement, which is underspending risk. She underspends significantly from what she's capable of spending per month to what she can't. What she does spend per month today in retirement. And I can only use that data point to say there was probably a lot of that when I was young too. The reality of her becoming a single mom like that income stream goes away and changes, looks different.

All that stuff is true. So I'm not minimizing or taking away from that. I can only say that today I know what she like her spending capacity, what she can spend per month and still have a very like high probability of outliving her money, outliving her. And she's maybe, maybe at 30% of that.

Yeah.

Interesting.

Never go.

That tells me like that probably has been there forever. So in my childhood it probably wasn't as bad as it felt.

But she's doing what she could with the information that she had and how she felt to do the best for her family.

Yes. And that's why I got nothing but respect and admiration and love for what she did. She didn't choose to be the one to change her generational chain. I did. I said I don't think this has to be this way.

And when did that. Yeah, that's what I'm curious about. The beginnings of the breaking of the chains. When you told us about that experience of walking into your home, coming home from college, was that the beginning of when your mindset started to shift? You started to ask some questions like it can't, shouldn't be like this. When did that start to evolve for you?

Honestly, probably around when we met, truthfully, because I didn't. I never took the time to understand money because I never had much of it. So I didn't need to think about it. Interestingly, like if you don't have much of the thing, you don't need to think about the thing thing too much. You just sort of hope. Hope is my strategy for most of my life, which is not a very good strategy by the way. But it was my strategy, especially as a minor leaguer. Like in my former life, I'm playing minor league baseball.

I made four figures a year. Like my first paycheck playing minor league baseball after taxes was $600 for two weeks worth of work.

Yeah.

So. And that was only for five months of the year where I got paid. So I had to pick up off season jobs. Basically what I'm trying to explain is when you're making four figures a year. Like, that's sub $10,000 for anybody who's trying to figure out that math. When you're making that in a calendar year, you are figuring out how to squeeze a quarter out of every nickel you earn. So, like, that was great for me. I actually prided myself on the ability to do that.

Which is where I'm saying that scarcity mindset can serve you. As long as it doesn't control you, you control it. Problem was I didn't know it controlled me until. Until I got into financial advising. And then I explain it like this. I learned the language of money through immersion, the same way you would learn Spanish by moving to Spain. Like, I learned the game of money, the language of money, by becoming an advisor. And it being my career, my profession, my calling to help coach people on how it works.

Like, I had to learn it pretty intimately pretty quickly to be able to be effective in communicating about it. And as I started to learn about it, I was like, oh my gosh, like, this is not nearly as complicated and worrisome as I once gave it credit for. And I tell people it's like, it's like I was an incoming freshman into high school my whole life. Like that incoming freshman year when you're summer of your eighth grade, like, is it that last week of summer is a super fearful worry, worry filled week because, like, you're often going to the bigger school, Kids from all the schools are all going to now be in the same room. You don't know everybody, new teachers, new layouts. Like, there's so much fear about becoming a freshman of high school. And then like that first week goes by or 10 days or whatever it is. And like, you know your classes and your schedule and your teachers and your classmates, like, all of a sudden 80% of what you were worried about is no longer part of your life.

Fear of the unknown is a real thing. Well, I and so many other people was living my life like an incoming freshman, financially speaking. And then I learned how it worked. And then I started to get curious and started to try to figure out, like, hold on, why do I think of money like I do? Why do I respond to. And I went on this deep introspective journey because I know, like, like, you know, in order to really be effective in my role in my career, to really be effective, I need to be willing to open up and be vulnerable and communicate my experiences so that the person on the other side feels comfortable enough to share their hardships or their journey or what they want their dreams. Right. If I'm unwilling to talk about it, then they probably will be unwilling, or I shouldn't expect them to be willing. So I needed to go on this, like, emotional deep dive to figure out, like, where is this coming from? How did I get.

How did. How did I live life before? How did I get here? And. And had to figure that whole journey out. But it really was. It started when I. It started when I started to learn how the language of money worked. And then it amplified when I was knocked to my knees, financially speaking, where, like, I couldn't provide for my family. Shortly into that season of meeting, meeting.

You so early days of being an advisor and the lack of income and building your practice and trying to find clients, those are lean days. I remember them pretty well.

They're. They're.

They're trying to say the least, or can be.

Yes. Not lean. Lean is not. Is a nice way to put us. Probably emaciated or starving. Yeah. I will tell you. So my first year, I was given, like, a Runway of a salary, really 14 months, which was amazing.

Like, they were incredibly generous with it because they had young kids of their own. I just can't say enough good things about those guys for that reason. Problem was, when that Runway ran out, the thought was like, the income from my practice should offset the salary that was provided. The reality was I was nowhere close. There was way too much of a difference. But they went forward with the salary decline, and I was being clipped financially. Like, the paycheck was being clipped by the. By about a thousand bucks a paycheck, like per month.

So 500 bucks paycheck, if you times two, it's roughly a thousand bucks a month. That's a $12,000 decline per paycheck. It ran out pretty quickly. And I started, for the first time in my life using credit cards. And I maxed out multiple credit cards. It got to a place where I'm like, which credit card can I open today? And how much will they give me? My savings were depleted. The stock my grandfather gave me from AT&T because he used to work there, that was sold and gone. I was in the midst of a home equity.

Excuse me, a home refinance, cash out refinance so that I could pay off some of this debt. I'm a. By the way, I'm a dad of five kids at the time. Got my own house, two cars, like, 30s. I. I'm supposed to have all of this figured out, right?

Yeah.

And here I am now, this home refinance if anybody's ever refinanced the house loan, it's like a regular home loan. Like you go through the process, it has to close sometimes 30, 60 day. Anyway, the closing didn't happen when I needed it to. So there was this like, imagine like a plane taking off and the Runway runs out. Like I had this dead time where I had zero dollars I could lean on. I had no credit card capacity. It was all maxed out, no savings. I had just enough money in my bank account for next week's mortgage paycheck.

So I had nothing in my checking account. I literally needed to call my mom and thankfully she didn't ask me but like the details. But I had to borrow her credit card just to buy groceries, just to feed my family. I literally could not feed myself or my family. And I'm the provider and it's my role to be able to do that. My wife trusted and believed in me. She never stopped believing in me. But when I took the role in finance, she believed that I could build something.

And to that point I was failing pretty miserably. And it was in that dark season that I realized like money had its control on me big time.

I was going to ask, like when you're going through that, you probably, you know, you'd been an advisor for a little while, you're starting to figure some things out but you're, you're still in that situation where that fear, that scarcity mindset that had to be at an all time high in that moment.

Yeah, interestingly, yeah. I want to make sure I say this correctly. My financial picture was worse than it ever had been on paper. Like when I played baseball and had four made four figures a year, I never had a dime of credit card debt. I figured it out. And then here you are, fast forward a bunch of years when I'm supposed to be earning and understanding. Not only that, but I'm helping people try to realize their dreams through finances while I'm living my own personal financial nightmare. It's a really hard headspace to live in.

Yeah, yeah.

But now, yeah, yeah, it's really difficult. And I am all the while though, even though the financial picture looks terrible, you can hear like I, I depleted stocks, I used up savings, I used credit cards, I took a cash out refinance on my home. So like I found levers to pull. Some of those are like in case of emergency, break glass kind of levers and I broke a whole lot of glass. But you have to understand, none of those were even on my Radar really like prior to that. So I was learning money, learning the rules of the game, learning how to take advantage of certain debt instruments and refinance and things like that that I never knew existed. You know, in that season too, I really, I, I recognized the hold money had on me. And it really sounds counterintuitive, but I started, I, I decided pretty early on in that advisory season to start to give some away and fit my faith's pretty important to me.

So that was really part of it. Like I was, I wanted to lean into that area of my life because I felt like I wasn't fully surrendering. I wasn't fully like committing to what I felt like was God's plan for me. And it's really because nowhere in my life, if you look at my body of work, was I a fence rider. Like if I was going to do something, I'm all in. Head first dive. Like play pro ball. Like have seven children today with, we homeschool our kids, start a business at 40.

Like none of that. I'm not a poster child for conformity, right? Like I don't play by the rules. And I, when I'm going to do something, I go all in. Except with money. Like I wanted to give some away. I wanted to commit to like a consistent tithe, we'll call it, or like a consistent giving. And sometimes I would, other times I have all the reasons not to because of, well, shoot, you hear my financial season, I have all the reasons not to. And I committed really right before it really got really bad, I committed to giving 10% of any money I get.

I'm giving it away. What I did was I created this blessing account. I called it, call it a generosity account, a giving account, an other person account, whatever you want to call it, it's a separate bank account. Because I knew myself, if it was in my bank account, I was going to find the reasons that I couldn't give this month. But if it's in a separate account, I like designated that account for other people. And every time I got paid 10% went into that account, I just wired it there. And I just never saw that's for other people, whatever. However, I feel like I'm being called to use it, my wife's being called to use it.

Like we're going to use it on other people. And in that process, that disciplined giving strategy, which was not a strategy, it was more like me just committing finally for the first time in my life in that like giving of money, money lost its hold on me. And I, I didn't know I was doing this at the time, but I talked with, I've, I've since talked with PhDs in psychology and like tried to understand this from a science standpoint.

Yeah.

And they told me that what it sounds like, like what was effectively happening was like my subconscious was rewiring how I viewed money, my relationship with money. Because in psychology there are these two root emotions typically are talked about, fear and love. And all other emotions kind of can stem from those two. So these, these people I was talking to that, these doctors in psychology were like, you have this fear based emotion toward money, like worried hoarding essentially. Not like reality show hoarders, but like that's what I was doing.

Right.

I was, I had my grips tight on it and my mind and my emotions knew that. Then when I made that conscious decision to freely give it, my subconscious was effectively telling my telling itself. Like, hey you guys, we don't have to worry about that anymore. Now I'm living in this love based emotion of giving. Love is always the stronger of the two emotions. And my subconscious was really telling itself. They tell, this is how they explained it to me, that it's telling itself. Hey, we no longer have to be fearful of that thing we once were.

We're actually okay giving it away. That's pretty cool because I made that move.

Yeah.

And I'm telling you, man, that has been the most impactful, strategic shift in money, in relationship money that I never planned on, that I encourage everybody to do.

That's amazing.

That has completely reshaped my relationship with money.

So when I go back to the question I asked you, I'm listening to you walk this financial tightrope as you're trying to develop your practice and figure it out. And you're leveraging whatever you can to keep going. And my mind goes to, you know, Matt's got to be at an all time high. This fearful mindset, that act of committing to giving psychologically shifted you into a place where like I'm better today, now moving forward than I have been in the past. Didn't change your financial situation immediately, but that mindset had you in a place where you're feeling a lot better about life and where you're headed and everything you're dealing with just that simple act of, of giving. Yeah, it's amazing.

That's the best way to describe it. Like my financial picture was worse than ever, but my relationship toward money was the better, better than it's ever been, you know. And I have to say, part of it was because of my faith, like, I leaned into that. I knew that, like, that was the direction I was supposed to go. So there's this, there's this quiet confidence and this undescribable peace about a decision you make when you're feeling led to go, go do it. You don't feel like you're selfishly and compulsively making a call. Like you feel like it's a. Like when I left, I told them, I'm not, I'm not running from you guys.

I feel like I'm being called to something. I'm not like running from you. I'm running to something. And I felt like there was a reason for me to make that move when I launched my own thing. And that's how I felt also leaving my old job, going into financial advising, I felt like I was being led into something. And when you're in that space emotionally, you don't know how it's going to work out, but you've got this quiet confidence, this piece about you that knows it's going to work out. So even I even had the wherewithal in that really valley season of my life. To screenshot every negative bank balance, every maxed out credit card, all of them, I've got it now.

I haven't revisited it because even though I preach being emotionally detached from money, I'm human like everybody else. That's a, that's a raw season. But I know that, that I was like, I am going through this because it will make, it will help me serve people better. So I need to document this. If for nobody else, just for me to be able to then go and tell my story to other people to give them encouragement in their season.

And when you made that shift and you committed to it, did things turn around business wise, financially, did things start to improve? Like, what did that look like from there once you were in that better spot?

They didn't right away. They really didn't. It got worse before it got better. It was not like once I did that all the, all the riches of the world started to come my way. It actually stayed pretty miserable for quite a long time. But my relationship with finances grew and I actually think, like I needed as an advisor to people about their money, like, I need to go through such a prolonged period of struggle financially so that when I come to the table to speak to people about their situation, I can almost like come at it from a place of empathy to say, like, I know what it feels like. And it's, I've probably gone through a lot worse than what you like. I don't say that, but, like, I understand that I.

I have been through the ringer with this, so I get what you're going through, and had I not gone through it, those are empty words, you know? And emotionally, people are intuitive. Like, if your words are saying one things, but your emotions aren't transferring, they know, like, that's lip service, you know?

Yeah.

And I feel like I had to go through a really prolonged financial journey, my whole family did, so that I can be a better advisor for people, a more empathetic and a more strategic advisor, to be quite honest, because I would live. I live an unconventional life. A lot of my clients live an unconventional life. When you do, you have to give unconventional advice because it's just logical that if you are living unconventionally, the advice you get can't sound like everybody else.

Right.

So I actually had to kind of go through that really difficult season to understand it on a personal level, to be able to say, look, here's what you're. What you're probably needing to do. And I know you don't read that in a finance textbook. Let me tell you my story.

Right, right.

And so how does that show up? Let's talk about that a little bit. A little bit more. How does that experience show up in the work that you do with clients? Whether it's giving, which I know is a big part of your practice, that you've kind of created, that philanthropic aspect where you're tracking that.

Yeah.

So if you want to talk about that, I'd love to get into it, but I'm just kind of curious, you know, what does that look like in the work that you do with clients? You know, that experience that you had, how does it show up?

It shows up in the form of life change most of the time with clients. Most of the clients that I work with are late 20s, 30s, 40s. So, like in the growing, accumulating, life changing seasons of life. Not that things don't change when you're older, too. Things always change.

But.

I've talked with. I mean, just with clients in general, a lot of the times they're. They're in this situation where they. They feel like they have more money than they've ever had because they're. They're earning income, they're married, dual incomes, both working, and then they have to buy a new house or they have a baby or they're having twins and like, or they start a business or their business needs investments, and it's like, they go from what feels like the mountaintop to the valley in an instant where, like, I had so much money, now I'm hemorrhaging cash. Like, will this ever. Will this ship ever turn around? You know, like, are we doing the wrong thing? What should I be doing? And it's cool to be able to be like their Sherpa along that journey, to be able to articulate, like, okay, I remember one. One family that I was talking with, they were moving across the country, changing jobs, and also got pregnant.

And I'm like, listen, I need to tell you something. You're going to. Buying a house in the move. So moving from an apartment to a house, like, all of life stressors all at once. I've done a lot of that all at the same time. And I was like, listen, you are going to feel like you are hemorrhaging cash. So they. The.

The point of the conversation was, we have this money that we put away intentionally for a vacation that we planned it. Like, we all worked through it. We had this account. It's. It's full. We can go on the vacation. We really would love to because we're having a baby. We're moving, get new jobs, like, new house.

I don't know when we're gonna do it again.

Right?

Yeah, yeah. Like, but is it financially irresponsible to go and do this? And I remember speaking, like, kind of speaking life into them to be like, look, you've got to go on this vacation. And they're like, I do. Like, you have to. And they're like, why? You're. That doesn't make any sense. Because you're an advisor. You're supposed to preach, like, conservative approach.

Save your money. Don't spend recklessly.

It's an interesting experience when clients pause a little bit and they're like, either my planners telling me to spend the money. Yeah, I've got all this stuff. I'm fearful. I don't feel like I have enough. He's the pro. He's telling me to go on the trip. That's an interesting moment.

So interesting. But they were so grateful because they're like, okay, I was telling them, you got to go on this trip. I don't know, six or eight grand or whatever it was. You've got to go on this because life is going to accelerate really quickly when you're back. And you are going to feel like you're hemorrhaging cash. And this money would go toward a million and one different bills. That is going to feel like nothing but you're going to create this memorable experience that you may look back on for the rest of your life as, like, an inflection point for you. So you need to go on that, because when you're home, your money's going to go away rapidly and it's going to be all right because you're gonna eventually get on your feet again.

But don't be alarmed as, like, you start to feel like your balances are going to zero. That's gonna happen. It's gonna be okay. And sure enough, like, they went, had an epic time, moved, bought a house, felt like, I got no money. How in the world is this gonna happen? Like, what are we doing? Why did you tell me to do this? To, like, okay, we're back. We've got steady jobs again. We're starting to figure this out. And I could not have suggested any of that had I not gone through, like, way worse of a financial situation.

But. But seeing it through, to know, like, I know how. I've seen this story. I know how it plays out. Here's what you're going to expect. And, like, they constantly will share with me, like, man, I'm so glad you told me to go, because we never would have gone. And here we are now. Never.

We never would have experienced that. And it was scary for a little while, but you're right. Like, we got through it, and it wasn't as bad as maybe we thought it was going to be.

Right. Right.

It's almost because of your lived experience. You're, you know, in an amazing spot to preach the idea that money's not the most important thing.

Right.

That people should be trying to figure out what is. Whether it's faith like it is. Seems like it is in your world or family or something else.

Right.

But money's not the thing.

Come on.

He's a resource, a tool.

Right.

And it's interesting because clients come to us for financial advice. You kind of started with this. People walk through the door looking for the answers and the technical aspects of planning or investing or whatever it is. But oftentimes it comes down to trying to understand what are these important things, like, an experience that we're not going to have for a while.

Right.

Making sure that that's the priority above what the textbook might say is the wise, prudent financial advice.

Exactly right. Exactly right. And having lived it like that conversation, not only could I deliver the information more confidently, but they could receive it from a place of, like, reality, knowing, like, oh, he's talking to me from what he's experienced himself and has the vantage point of, like, you know, hundreds of conversations, thousands of conversations of people with money.

Right.

Know, like, okay, there's. There's more to this than, like, what Chachi Beat may tell me to do.

Right.

You know, there's an emotional side to that.

Do you find yourself helping people figure out what's important? I oftentimes when I meet with clients again, what. What clients are coming through the front door for is financial planning and advice, investment management.

Right.

The things that they think are the most important things, and they are important. But oftentimes when we start talking about what are your values, what's important to you, that's a moment where clients maybe pause. They don't necessarily have the answers to those questions right away. And it takes time to kind of think, think about and unpack and reflect. Do you find yourself trying to coach or help or guide clients to what is most important to you?

Yes, man. And you're spot on, obviously, because you have these conversations in real life, you know, like, you're not. This is not theoretics, which is why I appreciate this conversation so much, because these are coming from real life experiences, not like theories in a book. People often don't know, to your point, what is most important to them when I. When it comes to money, like, they've sort of siloed their bank account. And then everything else, like, I've got family, I've got work, I've got all the. I've got my activities, I got whatever. And then I've got my bank account and my investments, and those are not the same.

And this thing better be growing like a million percent a year, and I better have tons of zeros in the bank account. And then all this other stuff I'll pay attention to, but this better be going good, you know, and it's interesting to try to help people marry the two and understand, like, instead of silos, it's kind of like the money's the engine, the foundation, and everything else sits on top of it. So, like, let's figure out why we're spending the money we're spending. Here's what I've learned works pretty well, as opposed to approaching people and saying, like, talk to me about what, Which I still do, but it doesn't work as well. You know, asking people, what. What's most important to you. Like, talk to me about your values, your core values, your what's what. What meaning what's meaningful in your life.

Instead of that, I'll ask a question about what did you like best about something? We were talking about your previous job, that vacation, your dinner last night, whatever the conversation is. And I'll hear usually values inside of that, because the things they like best or the things they address in whatever their experience was.

Right.

And, and then I tend to name that value. I try to, like, if you see it, say it kind of thing. I've actually worked on that in my own life with people in my life. Like, if I see a gift in them, I want to tell them. Because what I've learned is that I, you, whoever gets, whoever does that to somebody, you become one of two, three, less than five people in that person's entire life that has ever called out that gift and that value in their life, you know, and as soon as you do that, the guards down and people start to like, hear you because what you just said to them is something that resonates so deeply. You named a gift inside of them that like they knew to be true their whole life and maybe never heard anybody tell them that they had it. And once you're there, you can start to tie the money into it to be like, look, if that's something that you're gifted in, like, how can we exploit that in the service of other people? Like, how do we use money to be fuel for that fire? Like pour gas on that? And it's a whole different way to approach the conversation of what's important to you.

Right, right.

I find, you know, people don't speak like that in their normal day to day life. Most people don't talk about their values, right?

Not at all.

When he asked me what my values are, I'd struggle to answer that question off the top of my head because it's just not common language.

Right.

So I love that approach of being curious about people's experiences and kind of teasing out for them the highlights and the things that they keep coming back to. Do you find that the other one.

Is a, is their money story from as a kid, like, because then you can understand their gifts, their values, and then you can understand kind of their heart posture, posture toward money. If you say like, give me a story from your childhood at any point in your childhood that you really think exemplifies like your experience with money growing up, and then just shut up and let them think, most of the time nobody has an answer.

Right.

And then you have to sort of like guide that question and answer process to time frames or experiences or something. But like, if you asked me that and I started to share that story about the Curtain, for example, like you could start to understand man, this guy always like his upbringing was one of worry when it comes to money.

It's always enlightening to me. It's always kind of surprising. I guess I shouldn't be at this point. But how informative that money story conversation can be. You can learn a lot about somebody. So if you're in a coupled relationship, as an example, to ask your partner where they come from, what their experiences were about money, whether you're working with an advisor like you who's going to ask those questions. There's a lot that comes to light when people talk about their past experiences with money that were informative. And it's, I'd imagine for you, because it does for me as well, it presents this opportunity too to marry what they're saying is important and these values that they have with those experiences and sometimes they're not perfectly aligned.

Right?

Correct.

You kind of put a spotlight on some work that needs to be done. Because if you've got this passion to help other people, but you're fearful and have this scarcity mindset like money, there's some chains that need to be broken.

Right.

You, to use your analogy, and some work that you have to do. Yeah. So I love that. I love the money story conversation. It's great to hear that you have that experience as well. Do you feel like people need permission to hear it and to live it? Meaning, you know, they intuitively know what perhaps is important. They keep coming back to these experiences and these things that start to look and feel like values, but they also, they don't know that they have enough to pursue those things. Or maybe they are fearful or scarcity.

Do you feel like people come to you for permission to spend, invest, live a certain way? They want to know that they're going to be okay if they pursue that.

Yeah, that's true. They do. And sometimes they need the challenge from, from me, the healthy challenge. Call it maybe encouragement to say, why don't you go and sell some of this investment account to go start that business? Or like, hey, you're early in your entrepreneurial game. Like, there's no shame in liquidating some of the investment account to be able to support your life for today. Like you're building a future and like the permission to hear that that's okay.

From the guy managing the money, from.

A guy managing the money that actually loses money as soon as it goes out the door. You know what I mean? Like on an asset fee, if you have less dollars to manage, you Earn less dollars. Like, that's just how it works. But when it's more credible, when you're telling the person that, yeah, you should. And here are the reasons why. Because it goes back to that relationship with money. It's teaching, subconsciously teaching you a whole new way to think about money. Like, oh, that's account.

Those dollars in the account are a tool today to provide, to keep food on the table, whatever it is, so that I can pour into the business to build the life of my dreams, or whatever it is. It's not like. Which actually they usually will come to me. Come to you about, I'm sure is like, it's financial suicide if you ever do this. So don't ever do it. Don't ever touch your investment account. You have to figure out how to make it work with what you got.

You know, don't take a loan from the 401k. Don't quit that.

Don't ever.

Right? Yeah, yeah.

You know, I had a. And. And the. I always say, especially with money, in life in general, but especially with money, clarity breeds confidence. So when you have a detailed financial plan in place that can actually tell you how Today's decisions impact 5, 10, 20 years from now, sometimes that's all you need to have confidence in the decision you make today. Like, I had a client who has an older. An adult son. He wanted to help him with his first home down payment, and the only place he had to turn was a Roth ira.

That's the only spot he had money that he could really access at the time. And he came to me upset, tail between the legs. Almost like felt terrible even asking. And it was like a $30,000 number or something that he wanted to use. And he's like, I don't know where else to use it from. We already had built a plan out. And he's like, literally said, I know it's the worst thing I can do to my financial future by selling some of this ira, but I don't know where else to turn. And I've already made the decision.

I want to help my son. And I was able to show him, like, real numbers. If you spend 30k today from your 401k or your Roth IRA. Excuse me, you. Your spending capacity, you know, using Income Lab, like, you can spend about a hundred dollars less per month in six years or whenever it was he wants to retire. And he looked at me like, wait, what? I'm like, yeah, if you spend. If you use that 30k to kind of bless your son, help him out Today, you just have to be conscious that, like, you have $100 less per month to be able to spend in your future. And, like, that weight was.

I could literally see the weight lifted off his shoulders. You're kidding me.

Yeah.

To be able to help my son today, I don't. I just have to spend a hundred bucks. Like, I feel great about this decision. You know what I mean? It totally flipped the conversation because the fear of the unknown is a real thing when it comes to money. Like, that's the worry. As soon as you have clarity on the numbers, it's like, oh, I want to do this. And now I'm going to use money as this tool to be able to, like, bring joy to my son's life.

Yeah.

And that's a great worry about the future.

And that's a great example of when the numbers and the planning and the technical aspects support the more important things in life.

Right?

Yes.

Marrying the two of those things. Yeah. I've worked with. Recently, I worked with a. She was a nurse practitioner in Boston, and she got a job offer to go to New York City. And we. She was very diligent about money. She was very.

Had kind of a scarcity mindset to the whole thing. And she came to me and we're working out the numbers, and she, you know, we realized that it was probably going to be worse for her financially. Cost of living was going to go up. She was getting a little bit of bump in pay, but it really wasn't going to kind of offset the cost of living in. In Manhattan.

Right.

And she. That's what we did. We kind of looked at the impact of maybe adjusting her 403B contribution a little bit just to free up a little bit of cash flow to make sure she was comfortable. And the impact on what her net worth, her asset growth over the next 10 years was minimal. Just make a slight change. But that was unheard of in her mind. I'm going to save less for retirement to make this current move. But at the same time, she's talking about this team in this hospital that she's going.

She would just light up when she's talking about this hospital in New York. But she wasn't committing, taking the offer because she's worried about, you know, a few grand ten years from now, you know, but it's like the numbers supported, you know, her passion to, like, quit your job, go to New York, you know, go on that journey and figure that out.

Yeah.

So good.

Yeah.

So I could, you know, nerd out and keep Going down a bunch of these rabbit holes because I find it infinitely fascinating. Real quick, tell us about the giving aspect of the practice. You're tracking how much giving is happening with your clients, the households that you work with. Can you tell us a little bit about that?

Yeah, it's not something I force. Like I don't want to ever force anybody to hand over money, you know, because that is the total wrong, wrong heart posture toward giving. Like he's made me do it. Like that's not the reason to give. But I do want to encourage people to rally behind that, to see that, dang, I'm part of a bigger mission. There is, I forget the number. How many adults? 180 million 18 plus in the US that might be wrong, but let's just say that's the right number. If each 18 plus year old in the country gave $10, call it a pool for other people, like put $10 in per year in that pool, you're talking almost $2 billion, $1.8 billion of money that could be used to brighten somebody else's day.

Like that's an insane ripple effect if you think about that. So I encourage people, I tell my story again like my truth is my truth. And the strategy of giving, having a blessing account has dramatically changed my life for the better, financially and otherwise. So I always share that with people. And in conversations I'll ask like, what are you doing on the giving side, philanthropic side? Like, talk to me about that, anything. And if it's nothing, we move forward. If it's like, oh, I have this charity, cool. If it's like, oh, I like to help my friend or I want to do something, I just don't know what to do.

I sometimes remind them, like, look, we're not giving as a tax strategy necessarily. Like there are that, there are those. But again, like, I want your heart to change first and then let's figure out the numbers. You know, like giving as a tax strategy just seems as equal as like buying a 6,000 plus pound vehicle as a tax write off. Like I'm more after the heart, the inside out change. So I want people to understand the importance and the impact it's had on my life. Not like just me relating to money, but how much better of a husband I am, of a father I am honestly, like, the relationships in my life have gotten better as I've started to give up my reins, like lose control of money. I actually, I tell people like this, like, if you theoretically like held money so tight, let's pretend, let's take it out of money and let's pretend we're playing sports for.

For now. Because that's, like, my mindset. And you're going to. I'm going to throw you. You're going to throw me a football. We'll say. And the only thing I can do is keep my fists clenched tight. I'm probably going to do a pretty poor job of receiving most of those footballs.

I may catch them, but, like, I'm going to look like a seal trying to catch them. But if I am willing to open my hands and loosen my grip a little bit. And now you're going to throw me that same football. I tell people like this, like, you are positioned to receive the life you're called to live. Right. Like, a lot of the struggle with money comes from this illusion of control where people think they've got. They can hoard it and then therefore control money, when actually hoarding it controls them. The idea of loosening your grip on it actually puts your heart and your body in a position to, like, actually receive the life that you're called to live.

Yeah.

So I encourage people in that way. Like, you're going to make other people's lives better. That's the reason to do it. But if you're doing it for that reason, I promise your life's going to improve. So those are the conversations, if people are willing to go there. But I never, like, push it, because giving with the intent to receive gratitude, like, hey, I'll give you a hundred bucks. I just want you to really say thank you. That meant a lot.

Like, that's just selfishness disguised as generosity. Like, you gave so that somebody could pat you on the back. That's not. That's not the reason to give.

Yeah. Yeah.

But it is somewhat of a selfish act in that it makes you feel good. If it's selfless and done for the right reasons and you're passionate about that, it will. I mean, you're a living example of how.

Yeah.

Changed your life. Not just made your day, you know, changed your life and the trajectory of your practice.

Yes, it does. I actually heard Dean Graziosi is his name. He works with Tony Robbins, and he. He was on a podcast once, and I heard him saying it stuck out to me. He's like, you know, people tell me that money doesn't buy happiness. And I always tell them, you just haven't given enough away yet. And I'm like, man, that's so good, because it does bring you joy to give. But, like, what a Great mindset and emotion around finances.

If the reason you're giving is because it brightens both your days, like I guess it could be worse.

Yeah, absolutely. And so in your, I mean, it's been about a year or so since you launched the firm, so you're not.

Yeah, a little more. Yeah, roughly.

You're, you're roughly just keeping track of the good work and the giving that, that clients are, are, you know, fulfilling in their own lives. And what are you up to in terms of what you're tracking? It's over $1 million that, that your clients have given away to make good in the world.

Yeah. No strings attached, no qualifications toward what is giving and what isn't. If you gave, if you bought a coffee for five bucks behind somebody like that counts. If you put 100 grand into a donor advised fund, what grant counts? But however you want to classify your giving, I just think money used in the service of other people out of the goodness of your heart like that will do probably more for you than it does for them, but it'll do a lot for them. So I think like if I can, if I can be the, the. I don't know how to say it, like if I can be the reason that ripple effect starts, then, then that feels like a life well lived.

It's awesome. It's probably a great way to, to wind down. It's been a pleasure.

Matt.

We could keep going and I could continue to pick your brain, but we should. I want to be conscious of your time and wrap things, things up.

Thanks, man.

Real quick question. We talked about money stories. We've talked about the psychology of money. You've obviously done a lot of reflecting and thinking and looking into a lot of this stuff are resources, podcasts that you listen to that you felt were particularly impactful that you want to spotlight for people.

Oh, that's a good question. Well, I will say I put together like a three per three part video course on this like money mindset, emotions toward it. I dive into the science behind it. I also like we talked about some of the blocking and tackling of personal finances. And if anybody follows me on Instagram, it's just my name@mattmurizio. And you want to send me a DM about this podcast, I'll send you a link to that course and it's free. It just costs maybe a email address. I'm happy to share that with anybody.

I also think Think and Grow Rich is a pretty good resource for that. Think and Grow Rich. For anybody who hasn't Read it. Napoleon Hill wrote it. And he wrote it in the, I think early 1900s, profiling the Vanderbilts and the Rockefeller, some of the richest families in American history from the late 1800s into the early 1900s. And then he wrote it. And I'm telling you, if you are a personal development junkie like me and you follow any of the modern day influencers, the Tony Robbins of the world, you will feel like you're reading a book they wrote. Because he talks about visualizing, meditating, writing down your goals, vision boards, all the things that I thought were super woo woo, that when I read his book and I'm like, oh, you, you distilled the commonalities among the wealthiest families in the country 100 years ago.

And I'm listening to some of the most successful personal development coaches on planet Earth today. And they all sound the same, like maybe I'm the guy that needs, maybe I'm the guy that needs to try this. Like instead of, instead of throwing stones in the glass house, maybe I just have to try it. Yeah, that one's really good. There's a book out there called Happy Pocket Full of Money. Similar mindset, I'll admit, if you do read that, a lot of that even is over my head and a lot of it is like, wow, was this person, how much drugs was this person on when they wrote this one? Because like some of it does sound like, hold on, I don't even think I understand what this person's saying. But that does have a lot of really healthy like mindset approaches toward personal finances and your money.

That's cool.

And yeah, I would say those are probably a couple of the really good, good resources I think can actually help you.

As a reminder to people checking this out, we catalog all the recommendations, the resources, the books on the podcast website. So thinking grow rich is up there. We'll throw a pocket full of money.

Pocket full of money.

Happy pocket full of money. And a reminder, follow Matt on Instagram, just your name, Matt Morizio.

Yeah, that's it.

On Instagram. And reach out to him, he'll get you that course, which I'm going to have to check that out as well.

Yeah, yeah, I would love you to tell me what you think and how I can improve on it. Just valuing like your, your vantage point, your opinion, man. I don't put it this way. I didn't ask my mom her opinion on it, but I would ask yours on it.

Yeah, I'm honored. I'm humbled and honored. Yeah, I have to definitely Check it out. And finally, where should people check you out?

I think Instagram is probably the best spot. My website too, if you want to see what that generosity tracker you're talking about is. Interestingly, man, I will tell you that that generosity tracker, if you go to my website, which is reconstructingwealth.com, that was one of the hardest compliance hurdles to get over. They had the hardest time allowing me to put a tracker just tracking giving on my site, and I had to battle them. Multiple rounds of questions on why do you have that? What's the business model behind it? I don't. What are you trying to do with the client? What are you trying to influence the clients to do? And I was like, listen, I just want good in the world. So if you want to think about this, like good versus evil battle be happening behind the scenes. I don't know, maybe it exists because I had a hard time just putting a giving tracker on my website.

Yeah, really interesting.

Let's just chalk that up as you're blazing a path in the world that hasn't been opened up to people. So you're kind of changing mindsets along the way, which maybe that's true.

Yeah, I like it. That's a good way to say it.

I can't thank you enough, man. This has been a lot of fun to chat with you. Appreciate you being open and vulnerable and telling us a little bit about your story. I think you're doing amazing things with the new firm. So, man, thank you. Connected with you, man. I appreciate it.

Likewise, man. It's an honor. Thank you for having me.

Thanks, everybody for listening. As always, check out modernfinancialwellness.com. if you liked what you heard, you wouldn't mind subscribing to wherever you're listening or watching. That's always cool, too, and we appreciate you and we'll subscribe. Thanks, everybody. Later, Matt.

Later.

Thanks again for listening to this episode. A quick note, although I do hope that the information that we talked about was helpful. In no way is anything discussed on the podcast to be taken as specific financial advice. Please consult your own advisors and do your own research when you're making important financial decisions.