How to find courage when breaking silence feels dangerous — Sahar's journey from keeping family secrets to international author
Building community to sustain difficult creative work — Why you cannot do brave things alone and how to create support systems
Processing the trauma of writing about trauma — What happens after you tell the stories you weren't supposed to tell
Giving yourself permission to tell your story — Answering "who am I?" when doubt and fear show up
Honoring difficult emotions without pushing through them — How being honest with your feelings builds sustainable courage
Creating space for rest without guilt — Why breaks aren't procrastination but essential preparation for your next brave step
Reframing your role in storytelling — Shifting from "getting it perfect" to becoming a bridge that connects important stories to people who need them
Key Timestamps:
0:00 - Introduction
2:15 - The story behind "Children of the Jacaranda Tree"
9:30 - Growing up with secrets: Being born in prison and learning not to tell
14:00 - The courage to write the first book
24:00 - The trauma of writing about trauma—discovering what you did after the book was published
30:00 - Building community to sustain difficult work
34:30 - Honoring all your feelings, even the difficult ones
36:45 - Connecting to purpose when doubt shows up
Key Takeaways:
For women considering creative second acts: Your past experiences—even the painful ones—aren't obstacles to your creative work; they're often the foundation for the most meaningful stories you'll tell.
For midlife women finding their voice: The question isn't "who am I to tell this story?" but rather "who else has this story to tell, and what happens if no one tells it?"
For anyone doing brave work after 40: Community isn't optional when doing difficult things—surround yourself with people who remind you why your work matters when you forget.
Featured Quote:
"I always think like my parents were the ones who did such courageous things. Like they were out there, they went to prison for their ideals, and I was safe, I was safe in my room writing those stories. So it's, it's like interesting to think about courage in that way." — Sahar Delijani
Resources & Links:
Sahar's first novel: "Children of the Jacaranda Tree" (available wherever books are sold)
Sahar's second novel: "For Every Person You Kill" (forthcoming spring 2027)
Sahar Delijani is an award-winning novelist, essayist, and professor. Her debut novel, "Children of the Jacaranda Tree," was awarded a Silver Medal by the International Latino Book Awards for Best First Book of Fiction in 2023. Her work has appeared in The New York Times Book Review, TIME, Gagosian Quarterly, The Washington Post, USA TODAY, The Kenyon Review, Aster(ix) and Kweli Journal. She has been supported through awards, fellowships and artist residencies by the Vermont Studio Center, PEN America, Hermitage Artist Retreat, Virginia Center for the Creative Arts, Bread Loaf Writers' Conference, among others. She teaches fiction at Barnard College of Columbia University and Montclair State University.
About Your Host:
Aransas Savas is a wellbeing and leadership coach specializing in helping women over 40 navigate midlife transitions, career changes, and second-act reinvention. With 20+ years of behavioral research experience partnering with companies like Disney, Weight Watchers, and Best Buy, she hosts The Uplifters Podcast, featuring women doing transformative work in the second half of their lives. Aransas brings both research rigor and personal experience to conversations about courage capital, midlife transformation, and building meaningful second acts.
As someone who's built my career around [00:00:30] rigorous science, I super love that Nutrifol was the first brand to clinically study hair thinning on menopausal women, which is why I am so proud to have them as a sponsor. Nutrifol takes a whole body approach to [00:00:45] hair health supporting you throughout your life stages.
off your first month's [:
Today's guest gonna really help us put this in perspective. If you know her work, you know, she writes about great. Big courage with a capital C, the kind of life and death courage that most of us [00:01:30] don't face either even in the course of our lives, perhaps or certainly not very many times, and it is yet the focus of so much of her work and the fact that she's doing this work though, takes the little courage, the daily courage that each of us [00:01:45] practices and builds over the course of.
the other little tiny daily [:
Living little acts of courage in times of great big courage. The book is internationally acclaimed. It was translated into 32 languages, published in more than 75 countries. If that gives you [00:02:45] any sense of the desire for this book that is out there, I think I'm probably not the only one who was like, let's read it again and soak up more of it.
u kill, arrives in spring of [:
Sahar Delijani: Thank you. Thank you so much, and thank you so much for that introduction.
I'm really honored and, um, happy to be here speaking about courage and uplifting with you.
rt things off, maybe set the [:
Sahar Delijani: Sure. So the book talks about the host revolutionary political persecution in Iran after the 1979 revolution, which ousted the Shah. There were many people who [00:04:00] were participants in that revolution. So the so that the party, the Islamic party that came out of it, Victor Victorious, as we now say, hijacked the revolution wasn't the only force.
rces, social forces, who had [:
So they were active during the revolution against the, the regime of the Shah. And then they sort of continued their activism, political activism, because they were like. Left progressive activists [00:04:45] after the revolution because they realize, okay, so what we're getting is not really what we had fought for.
, was that the war with Iraq [:
It was like one of the, [00:05:15] um, longest and most devastating wars in the region and, and in the world ever since, like the World War II with like more than a million casualties on both sides. So my parents were active politically, and in 1983 there was this [00:05:30] like last wave of arrests and imprisonments of political activists from all the other sort of political thoughts.
started after the revolution,:
And so I stayed with my mother for about like, um, a little more than a month. And then my grandparents raised me. My brother, who was two at the time, who was already staying with them, and then another cousin, because [00:06:15] my aunt, my mom's sister was also pregnant at the time, who was also born in prison, my cousin.
o this was sort of the basis [:
And it sort of, in that first part of the book, it ends with the 1988 [00:07:00] executions because 1988 was the last year of the war with Iraq between Iran and Iraq after eight years. And the Islamic regime and the Supreme leader, Khomeini at the time sort of thought that this was as sort of a ceasefire. It was [00:07:15] being brokered by the un.
a few months, in December of:
And so that was the first part. And the second part of the book sort of talks about all these children born in those years and how. Now they're in their twenties and how they're sort of deciding their own [00:08:00] fate and not their only their own fight by the fate of their country and how they're deciding to be sort of participant in what is happening in their country, both politically and socially and personally, and what it means to be a child of that sort of tragedy and still [00:08:15] try to fight for what your parents sort of started.
d it had to have been really [:
And so as you asked yourself that question, and then I'm sure side by side saying, well, what did they fight for? If not my ability. To be able to tell these stories. What were those conversations like with yourself as [00:09:15] you set out to tell the stories?
hink of the aftermath of the [:
I just thought like, we need to really tell these stories. These are like kind of interesting. Part of our history and so on. And then after the book was out, I just all of a sudden realized, oh my God, [00:09:45] what I did. Was also in some ways betray secrets because when we were growing up, my parents in, we were still in Iran.
they had been released, but [:
So. We were like [00:10:15] pariahs, like there was this hostility towards us. That's why we had to always, like my parents had always told me like never to talk to anybody about this. Outside of, you know, our home and our community. I'm never to at school, to friends, [00:10:30] to teachers, to nobody. So, and then of course when we left to California, none of that, you know, was valid anymore.
ed anything. So we just like [:
And to just stand before all these [00:11:00] people and say the things I wasn't supposed to tell anybody, you know? It was a very strange, very strange, I mean like it was very traumatizing in so many ways. Wow. To the point that my second book sort of talks about that it [00:11:15] sort of talks about the trauma of writing, about trauma, like there's this whole phase of it that begins after you are done.
ke with your parents and you [:
These are personal stories, but [00:11:45] they're really my parents' stories. They're, they're not, I mean, they aren't my stories. The bulk of it is theirs and I sort of became their And your perception of them. Exactly. And my perception of those. So there's all these like things, these [00:12:00] layers to it. And what I decide to tell, what I decide not to tell.
yes. There was a lot. And I [:
But at the same time, I always think, you know, as myself, as sort of a secondary character to all of this, you know, like I'm the writer, I'm, you know, I'm the. You know, I have all the power, but in some ways I'm also [00:12:45] the person who's trying to be this, like, medium, you know, he's trying to connect these stories to other people and, and just thinks, okay, this just has to go through me.
courageous things. Like they [:
Aransas Savas: Yeah. And I think that question you ask of who am I?
Yeah. [:
Sahar Delijani: Yeah, [00:13:30] I know exactly. And then I tell myself, but who else. I was efficiently obsessed with these stories to tell them forever.
Aransas Savas: Yeah. And I mean, I, I, I point that out because I think we all have those questions when we're doing big, brave things.
We say, but [:
I didn't know. That was not my experience. I can tell you about my [00:14:15] grandparents' journey as migrant farmers in the Dust Bowl because I have proximity to that. I understand the human cost of that. I understand the generational cost of that. I do not understand. The generational cost of [00:14:30] this war, and I wouldn't have any insight into it had you not been that translator for me to get a glimpse into it.
that, all of those years of [:
Everybody would go [00:15:00] to him and they was like, you're, you know, you're, you're the grandma. And then, and then he says, so, so hard. Like, everybody's coming to me and they're saying all these nice things to me and nobody really talked about how I took care of you guys before. And I'm like, yeah. And then that, you [00:15:15] know, that was like, I'm just like, oh, I'm so glad.
of. Tragedy, especially on a [:
So then there are all these people who aren't politically active, like my grandparents and so many people who aren't, you know, but they're just like, you know, that [00:16:00] support. To give to your daughters, okay, your daughters going out there trying to be revolutionaries or are revolutionaries and you're like just sort of home.
I'm here so that you can do [:
Aransas Savas: know? Yes. And honestly, the Grandmother of Love in the book is as somebody who. [00:16:30] Was raised by my grandparents who, and it, for totally different reasons was taking care of me because of their child's choice in youth.
I just felt so profoundly [:
Yeah, absolutely. So that we can find the courage to share whatever story we have access to. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah. And as we talk about this second novel, it sounds like we, we [00:17:30] joke in our family that our greatest gift is that we're slow reactors.
at moment, or, you know, my, [:
That takes, I think, all other levels of courage. Yeah. So how are you wading through that? What is your energy like as you create this next book, as you think about sharing this [00:18:15] book? What's different?
Sahar Delijani: My God. Yeah, you are right. You are like. You went, you, you went through it once and you're doing it again.
e. One thing is that it took [:
And have been working on this book for like more than 10 years, but it just kept going back to it. Like I would write a part of it and then just think, okay, no, this doesn't work. And then like two [00:19:00] years later I would go and write other, like add other things or so, so like, it was just like an on and off relationship with this book.
three, four years after the [:
I think one thing I realized, and I kind of like knew it at the time with the first book. I got older as well, you know, [00:19:45] a little bit wiser, and just thought about these things for such a long time that I realized that this is not about me and this is not about my story and what happened to my parents.
stakes are so high. This is [:
And then people would come to me like, this is like my story, or this is like the story of my mother. And I realized, wow, this is like such a personal, intimate [00:20:30] story. It was just like everyone's story, you know? And they identify it with it, not just like, oh yeah, I mean like you made it so human, but just like, no, no, no.
me too. Or my friend too, or [:
So forget about, I mean, you know, of course I then write about the trauma, writing about trauma, but I think this is also an important part of it. Like what happens to us who talk about this? [00:21:15] All of these things because this is part of that tragedy. How, why are we telling, why did we have a have to live a life to be, to be telling these stories?
ink it was just sort of that [:
Aransas Savas: the
Sahar Delijani: second
Aransas Savas: time.
your story is to constantly [:
And then to also. Come back to how do I make it sustainable [00:22:15] for myself to keep doing big, brave things. So how do you take care of your energy, your mind, your body, your spirit to do this work? That's a good
ar Delijani: question. I'm a [:
Talking to people about like what they're doing and what their fears are and what, you know, what they want their life [00:22:45] to look like and who they want to benefit in those in some ways, you know? So I think doing that and just talking to people all the time and being surrounded by, you know, friends and family.
ou know, who's a huge source [:
So like they, we were of this community of [00:23:30] prison friends. And, you know, like it was just them and they would just give us so much love and that saved us, that made us feel safe more than anything. So I sort of tried to sort of recreate that for myself [00:23:45] wherever I am. And then, you know, reading and, and cooking and then like taking time off I think is also really just to like, not think about it and think about and try to think about other things and do other things.[00:24:00]
e whatever feeling you have, [:
And then. I'm sure once we [00:24:30] live them and we live them honestly, then we can move on to the next feeling of like passion and production and you know, all of that. I mean, that's another thing, like I try to just be really honest with my feelings as much as possible. I dunno, but that I believe,
sas Savas: I believe in that [:
Honesty. It's honesty with ourselves. And that I think is one of the most courageous acts that we can practice.
then like, you know, if I'm [:
Aransas Savas: Right.
It's, and how could you create honest work if you're not honest with yourself?
Sahar Delijani: Yeah.
more harm than good, so it's [:
Sahar Delijani: yeah. No, very true.
th some uplifting stories of [:
And I think we just need to [00:25:45] surround, we like need to blanket ourselves in stories of people saying, yeah, I'm scared and I'm gonna do it anyway. Yeah,
Sahar Delijani: yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Aransas Savas: Exactly. And
ho's trying, who's trying to [:
Are like born braver or just inherently brave or are brave all the time. You know, like there are so many times that we, we aren't and someone else [00:26:15] is brave for us maybe. You know, I think, I think also watching like what everybody else is doing and how brave they are and how. They are working so hard for this world that is on fire to just get a little [00:26:30] bit better or to just, you know, put out the fire a little bit.
I think that's really, I mean, to me that's really, really inspiring and really helps me work more and get back to it,
hink That's such a beautiful [:
So
you nominate? I nominate Yda [:
When these things happen, like you are just so, like, what can I do? What can I do? And someone just gives you an [00:27:45] opportunity to talk about it a little bit and it becomes so fundamental for you to just like survive those days, you know, also emotionally. And so, and, and I think she just has this like grace and has this incredible way of bringing [00:28:00] people together.
e's a DJ at the time, at the [:
So I wanted to sort of nominate her for, for the next person.
wait to talk to her. And it [:
And yeah, as I, I am sort of like mentally cataloging women who inspire me and the women we've had on our podcast and that word. Multifaceted comes up so often. Mm-hmm. I think there's [00:29:00] something to that that I wanna explore a little further. As uplifters, we love to uplift uplifters. How can we support you and your personal or professional missions right now?
Sahar Delijani: I think [:
I think stories of our region are so. Simplified. I don't think that it's not [00:29:45] because there aren't people who are listening and paying attention, but that they've become so simplified. It's just become so, everything's become so black and white. And I really think that if our readers and our listeners are open to our [00:30:00] complexities, which are like the complexities of anybody else in the world, you know?
stories that come from that, [:
I heard the Afghan story already. I heard it, but it's like, no, you have like, [00:30:30] how can you even say that? Like we're like. You know, we're in a complex society with complex histories and upheavals and so much up and down, and there's no way that you know our story. Like there's just no way you [00:30:45] maybe want know one of our stories.
f our own stories anymore. I [:
Aransas Savas: That is one of the most meaningful answers I've ever heard to that question.
Thank
Sahar Delijani: you. Something I think about a lot because we like, we face this thing a lot every day, so
Aransas Savas: Yeah. And [:
Sahar Delijani: Well anyone. Yes. I mean, like, it's not good for us, it's not good for [00:31:45] Americans, it's not good for anybody. Right. This sort of dumbing down of stories, I think it only creates hostility. You know, misunderstanding, which leads to hostility, then to division and to, I mean, and then, you know, and then [00:32:00] we see what is happening in the world.
And that is a result of this because it's been going on for decades, if not for centuries.
Aransas Savas: Yeah. The ripple effects impact all of us.
Sahar Delijani: Yeah. Yeah.
more understanding to create [:
And, and to Sahara's point, none of us are born with more [00:32:30] courage. We build courage through every lived experience, both that we have, but also that those who came before us. And it is a matter of building tolerance for courage.
Sahar Delijani: Oh, [:
Aransas Savas: And that threshold, right? It, it helps us.
Take the next courageous step,
, but there are also so many [:
Freedom, equality, like none of these are things that just like fall from the sky, you know? No, it's
Aransas Savas: never happened by accident. Never. And it's never happened in a straight line. Never.
ar Delijani: Yes, absolutely [:
So like, I think it's important to realize that nothing is given and if we don't have the courage to, to at least protect the things you know, that we have, it'll be gone before we know it. You know? [00:34:00] Yeah. At least respect for those who fought before as we need to fight that, you know, to keep, yeah. I mean, it'll, it'll be gone before we know it.
ke a dictatorial society is, [:
Aransas Savas: Mm-hmm. The fear mongering and the hate [00:34:30] was developed over practice too.
And so can courage be built in the same way?
ve the courage to protect it [:
Aransas Savas: as well, as well as
Sahar Delijani: moving
Aransas Savas: forward. And I think then lesson one here is to constantly reconnect the purpose.
but surround themselves with [:
It is allowing ourselves to take the time we need. To build that courage and to allow breaks and rest to restore our stores of courage [00:35:30] and to acknowledge, as you said, with honesty, the complexities of this and to trust that we are not wrong because it is not easy, that we can feel scared and sad and hurt and [00:35:45] weak, and still be courageous at the same time.
And to trust that whatever courageous steps we take are worthwhile.
s, yes. And all those little [:
Aransas Savas: as little investments. Sahar, thank you so much for being here. Thank you for the courageous work that you're doing in the world. I can't wait to devour your next book and your next. [00:36:15]
Sahar Delijani: Thank you so much for Thank you.
e them with the Uplifters in [:
[00:36:45] It'll really help us connect with more uplifters and it'll ensure you never miss one of these beautiful stories. Mmm.
painted water, sunshine with [:
With that, all hindsight, bring the sun to twilight. Lift you up. Whoa.
Lift you up.[:
Lift you up.
Lift you up.
Lift you,
lift, you[:
lift.[00:38:00]
Beautiful. I cried. It's that little thing you did with your voice, right? In the pre chorus, right? Uh, Uhhuh. I was like, mommy, mommy,
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62.Jennifer Maanavi Is Proving That Flubs, Flops, and Pivots Are the Secret Sauce for Lasting Success
00:33:46
61.Jessica Patay is Helping Caregivers Be Braver Together
00:37:20
60.Sandy Samberg is Finding Problems and Crafting Compassionate Solutions
00:37:02
59.Kate Tellers from The Moth is Bringing Humans Together Through Stories
00:37:19
58.Kristy Jeansonne is Choosing Love Over Fear in the Face of ALS
00:38:58
57.Rahti Gorfien is Helping us Overcome the 5 Emotions Blocking our Desires
00:29:41
56.Janelle Hill is Proving That We Can Heal Trauma
00:39:54
55.Kathrine Switzer is Still Running Toward Fearlessness
00:30:16
54.Taylor Ratliff is Empowering Students to Embrace Their Uniqueness
00:33:14
53.Gerilynn Berg is Raising the Bar(bell) on What Aging Bodies Can Achieve
00:27:31
52.Dr. Aziza Shad is Humanizing Healthcare
00:35:53
51.Konika Ray Wong is Celebrating the Cycle
00:40:16
50.Amy Cohen is Facing Traffic Violence Head On
00:30:04
49.Sean Wachter is Kicking Cancer's A$$
00:28:19
48.Embracing the Cringe with Caroline Scruggs
00:44:26
47.Healing Through Humor: Navigating Grief with Rebecca Soffer of Modern Loss
00:37:34
46.Why we live better when we talk about death
00:35:37
45.What we can learn about life from watching others die with Sundari Malcolm
00:40:32
44.Accepting life when it isn’t what we imagined: Lia De Feo’s story of infant losses, surrogacy, and motherhood
00:37:30
43.The Goal-Getters: How to set goals that actually get done
00:43:52
42.The Self-Healer: Overfunctioning, emotional transparency, and heart coherence with Rachel Everson Fink
00:30:01
41.The Healthcare Activist: How Dr. Helen Arteaga-Landaverde changed the world by fixing one block
00:34:24
40.The Passive Income Passionista: Tai Abrams teaches us how to fund our dreams
00:35:03
39.The Food Rebel: Claudia Castellanos
00:25:37
38.Outrunning OCD with Reverend Katie O'Dunne
00:45:41
37.How Meera Hardin Found Her True Path to Joy
00:39:57
36.Do It (or Don’t) with Kara Cutruzzula: How to Activate Your Dreams (if you want to)
00:48:06
35.Breaking Barriers with the 1st Female NFL Ref, Shannon Eastin
00:28:32
34.How to Find Joy and Freedom in Full-Time Travel with Heather Markel
00:45:32
33.The Healing Power of Rest with Dinée Dorame
00:36:43
32.Age Enthusiasm: Embracing Midlife Wellness with Denise Pines
00:28:28
31.Interfaith Healing for Israel and Palestine
00:28:20
30.How to be an Uplifter in Times of Crisis
00:36:48
29.Leading with Heart: Sarah Dusek's Unconventionally Uplifting Path to Success
00:45:38
28.Learning to Use our Voices: Intentional Living with Rola Ghasani
00:28:09
27.From Network TV to Skid Row: Eyvette Jones Johnson’s Journey to Wholeness
00:35:28
26.From “Wall Street Jerk” to the First Female Chaplain of the FDNY: Ann Kansfield’s journey to authenticity and purpose
00:31:43
25.How to Cultivate a Time Abundance Mindset
00:28:03
24.Are you a Head, Heart, or Hand Listener?
00:33:58
23.What Happens When an Uplifter Takes Care of Herself First
00:33:05
22.How to be Truly Kind
00:29:24
Life is bigger than breaking 33 minutes in the 10K
00:39:15
20.Stop downplaying your gifts and make them your magic
00:47:58
19.Make Your Mess Your Message
00:44:52
18.Take the leap. Show your scars.
00:45:49
17.How to Break Generational Curses and Enjoy the Journey
00:32:08
16.How to Embrace Your Features and Learn to Love Your Body
00:37:18
15.How to live the best you can every day...even when it feels like the tough times will never end
00:20:04
14.How to Bridge the Gap Between "Us" and "Them": What it's like to be homeless in America
00:31:02
13.From Hiding to Healing: How to Let Go of Perfectionism and Learn to Like Yourself with Lisa Crozier
00:44:49
12.How to Manage Acute Stress and Rescue Your Health with Air Force Veteran Alexis Nelson
00:30:42
11.Clearing our Clutter With The Chaos Whisperer
00:30:12
The Power of Gratitude: Cultivating Connection and Overcoming Obstacles with Gina Hamadey
00:43:00
9.Finding Strength by Giving Strength: Transforming Pain into Purpose with Chrisie Canny
00:28:40
8.Julie Hartigan’s Recipe for a Big, Juicy Life: How an engineer turned chef leaned into her gifts and dreams
00:47:51
7.From Barely Surviving To Totally Thriving
00:30:47
6.A Mom, A Marathon, A Mission: Mindset Matters, People Pleasing, and Inner Critics With Julie B. Hughes
00:52:36
5.Are you participating or observing?
00:44:02
4.Overcoming Fears and Limiting Beliefs with Rachel Lipson, Entrepreneur and Coach
00:37:15
3.A 6-Step Process for Making Your Dreams Come True How Emmy-nominated Director and Entrepreneur, Susie Jaramillo, Uses a Growth Mindset to Make a Big Impact
00:47:25
2.Breaking Barriers and Embracing Challenges: Lessons in Courage and Excellence from M'Lis Ward, the First African-American Female Captain in Commercial Aviation
00:51:34
1.The Uplifters Podcast: How to Live Your Dreams and Unlock Your Potential
