In this episode of the 11 Ten Leadership Podcast, Rob Shields and David Spickard revisit the rapidly evolving conversation around artificial intelligence and explore what it means to lead well in a world where AI can outrun our teams, our judgment, and even our rest.

Drawing from Notre Dame's DELTA framework: Dignity, Embodiment, Love, Transcendence, and Agency and 11 Ten Leadership's THRIVE model, Rob and David consider how leaders can embrace the real benefits of AI without allowing efficiency, productivity, or the pressure to keep up to redefine what matters most. They explore the tension between using AI to create margin and simply filling that margin with more work, the impact of AI on jobs and human dignity, and the danger of allowing AI to eliminate the wrestling and relational work that makes leadership meaningful.

Ultimately, AI is a mirror and it will amplify what is already present in us and our organizations. The question for leaders is: Are we approaching AI through a lens of love or a lens of power?

TIMESTAMPS

00:00 – What does AI reveal about us?

03:00 – David's evolving relationship with AI

07:00 – What we could lose when AI eliminates the “wrestling”

09:00 – The DELTA framework: Dignity, Embodiment, Love, Transcendence & Agency

14:00 – AI as an extension of our leadership philosophy

16:00 – Love vs. power: What lens are we using?

20:00 – AI, jobs, and the dignity of work

24:00 – Using AI to create margin for people

27:00 – AI, team culture, and decision-making

29:00 – Why leaders shouldn't eliminate the pain and struggle of the journey

32:00 – The bottom line: Lead AI through a lens of love

RESOURCES

• 11 Ten Leadership
• Notre Dame's DELTA Framework (Institute for Ethics and the Common Good)
• Andy Crouch on the Good Faith podcast, "Spiritual Preparation for the AI Era" — source of the "lens of love vs. lens of power" framing
• Denver Institute for Faith & Work, "AI Series: Artificial Intelligence and Redemptive Work" with Andy Crouch
• Harvard Business Review, "AI Is Revolutionizing Strategic Decision-Making"

Every conversation about AI right now asks the same

2

question: what can it do for me?

3

We want to ask a different one

today: what does it reveal about me?

4

AI doesn't hand you your values.

5

It hands you a mirror

and turns up the volume.

6

Today we're pulling in a couple of

frameworks, Notre Dame's Delta framework

7

and our own THRIVE model, to ask what

it actually looks like to lead well when

8

the tool in your hand can outrun your

team, your judgment, and even your rest.

9

This is Just AI.

10

I welcome to the 1110 Leadership podcast,

where we tackle issues at the intersection

11

of leadership, faith, and culture.

12

I'm your host Rob Shields, senior

13

I'm joined, as always, by my faithful

14

Leadership, David Ulysses Spickard.

15

David: Oh, my goodness.

16

What in the world?

17

Rob: I don't know.

18

I just- Is it because- I thought

maybe- Is that- … we could

19

workshop different middle names.

20

I know that's not very actual

21

David: was that what…

22

Did you, did you put that into

Claude- … or ChatGPT to offer

23

a different middle name for me?

24

That's

25

Rob: exactly…

26

David: This- Is that the

27

Rob: whole idea?

28

That's it exactly.

29

This is whole…

30

This is great, 'cause that's the

kinda stuff that happens- … when

31

you just outsource your note-taking.

32

Is, is this

33

David: what it means, Just AI?

34

Rob: No, no.

35

For our listeners, that was just a joke.

36

That was not an AI delegation gone awry.

37

Welcome.

38

Just making sure you're paying attention.

39

David: I'm, I'm with you.

40

I'm on it.

41

Rob: You don't seem like a Ulysses.

42

I don't know if anybody does,

but you definitely don't.

43

That's-

44

David: Well- You're a- … I

don't know how to take that.

45

Rob: I don't know.

46

I- As a compliment.

47

It's a very antiquated name.

48

I'll ta-

49

David: Okay, I'll take it as a compliment.

50

Rob: Yeah, you should.

51

David-

52

David: Ulysses seems like- David … a

strong and powerful name, so I don't know.

53

We'll see.

54

Rob: It's just hard.

55

It's a har…

56

It's just doesn't roll off the tongue.

57

Anyway, that's not what

we're here to talk about.

58

That's…

59

We're here to talk about

artificial intelligence, David.

60

Are you ready?

61

Is anyone ready?

62

Wow.

63

Is the world ready?

64

David: No.

65

No.

66

Rob: No, we're not.

67

But we're here.

68

Yeah.

69

And we gotta- Yeah … we gotta lean in

because this is the hand we've been dealt,

70

and this is the water we're swimming in.

71

So there's really no way

around this conversation.

72

This isn't our first conversation with AI.

73

our faithful listeners of the podcast

will recall we partnered with the Denver

74

Institute for Faith and Work when they

had Andy Crouch on to their podcast.

75

And we were able to team that up for

our listeners, which really thoughtful,

76

but also it's been several years now.

77

And so we know that as much as this has

been in the, in the water, we needed

78

to revisit this topic because it's what

everyone is thinking about right now, and

79

we need to make sure that we're joining

the conversation and also helping to

80

help our listeners and leaders think

critically and well about this issue.

81

So maybe David, before we get

into all the things, maybe we

82

just start with ourselves, right?

83

We talk about- Mm … this

is holding up a mirror.

84

Let's hold up a mirror to Eleventen

and, and, and David Ulysses Spicker

85

about what he thinks- Yeah … about-

86

David: Let's see if I, let's see if I

can be more insightful with my new name.

87

Rob: That's right.

88

There's something powerful coming now.

89

When you channel that ancient energy.

90

Uh-huh.

91

But in all, jokes aside, I think our

listeners would be curious to hear how

92

you're thinking about even just your

own personal AI use right now, your

93

relationship with AI and how we are

or are not using it here at Eleventen.

94

David: Yeah.

95

Well, it's certainly a conversation

we're having together, and

96

so I'll speak for myself.

97

But also it's coming from the perspective

of how we're handling it through

98

the work that we do at Eleventen.

99

I'm usually someone who doesn't adopt

things that quickly, just in general,

100

the new trends or the new movie or,

the new song or whatever it is, or

101

in this case, the new technology.

102

And so I've been watching and observing

more in terms of my posture, but

103

that's just normal for all of what

I do with these kinds of things.

104

But as we have used AI and I've used

it, certainly personally we think

105

through the ways it can be tremendously

helpful to us in our work, my thoughts

106

about it modify over time from being

skeptical, being scared, wondering

107

about the safety of it in terms of how

quickly it's being developed and how

108

information is out there and what do we

need to make sure that we protect while

109

also understanding the efficiencies

that we can have through using it.

110

And honestly, it has the ability to do

a deeper level of analysis sometimes

111

than we're able to do, either because

it does it in less time or it's pulling

112

from things that we just wouldn't

normally think of that enable us to

113

almost have a, a partner with us.

114

And I remember we had an episode

with Jess Everhart who talked about,

115

a thought partner- is the way she

described AI at the time, that we

116

don't, completely outsource everything

to AI, but we see it as a real, boost

117

to our work where it makes sense.

118

But I think in the back of my mind,

I still have these real reservations,

119

about everything from keeping up and

as a business owner, being tempted

120

to think that we're gonna have to

really keep up and know our stuff

121

about AI in order to be competitive.

122

And so the pressure of that,

while also keeping up so that we

123

can be good counselors for the

leaders that we're working with and

124

advising them well and helping them

understand how to think about AI.

125

So there's a certain level of

expertise that we need ourselves

126

just in delivering our work.

127

But then also understanding that so

much of our work is people-centered-

128

and it's presence and it's slow and

it's deep and it's messy And that's

129

where the real value of our work is.

130

Not clean, not quick, not

efficient, not well packaged.

131

And so, when you have a tool that can

make it look like you got it all together,

132

when you realize that true north in

many ways is the journey then we have

133

a tension that we're always fighting

with when it comes to what AI is now

134

and what it's gonna be in the future.

135

Rob: Hmm.

136

Yeah, … I'm glad that we're

starting there, you talking about

137

the North Star being the journey.

138

I would add another word that

we talk about a lot on the

139

journey is the wrestling.

140

We talk about it a lot with just

leadership, is the kind of the

141

wrestling through the nuances of how

we think about a decision, how that's

142

gonna affect other people around us,

how we bring all of ourselves into

143

that decision and have the emotional

intelligence to think about, who's

144

impacted and the long-term implications.

145

That's a process that takes time to

really settle and to think well- Mm-hmm

146

… and to lean into the relationships,

which we'll get to later, about how

147

we bring our teams, into that process

thoughtfully where their voices are

148

really speaking into directing as well.

149

And that wrestling, I mean, it's

almost like a GPS of a car feels

150

like, you know, when, I used to

have a TomTom back in the day, and

151

now it's all of our phones, right?

152

But the idea of when I asked my grandad

where to go, around town, lived in a tiny

153

town, New Bern, there's not that many

streets, but he'd just tell you all the

154

streets to get somewhere because that

was his memory, right, of like, he had

155

to know all this stuff, and then it just

got shrunk down to I don't even know

156

the second street in my neighborhood.

157

I've had to explain to

my kids to get out of it.

158

And I think, so there's an atrophy

of muscle, and I almost wonder if

159

one of the things that we might lose

with AI, if we're not careful, is

160

the gift of the wrestling, if we lose

the muscles to be able to wrestle.

161

Yeah.

162

Um, because we iron out all the

wrinkles, and the wrinkles are

163

actually some of the good stuff.

164

Not all of it.

165

The data, summary an- analysis,

like you're saying is wonderful and

166

really saves us a lot of time to help

us lean into the relational more,

167

which seems like a real win for us.

168

But, it's very much a double-edged

sword that we're still thinking

169

through 'cause the information,

everything's changing so quickly.

170

It's almost like we could develop a thesis

today, and it could be outdated tomorrow.

171

David: And we need to get

this episode out quickly.

172

Because

173

Rob: it's gonna

174

David: be out of date

175

Rob: in the next month or two.

176

Yeah, it should've been

a live stream maybe.

177

That's right.

178

By this afternoon,

there'll be a new app now.

179

Claude gets an upgrade.

180

Um- Sure … but, you know, there are

people who are attempting to provide

181

frameworks for thoughtful leadership.

182

One of the ones that we've come across

recently is, , Notre Dame has an Institute

183

for Ethics and the Common Good, who's

led by Megan Sullivan and her work, and

184

they have developed something called the

DELTA framework, which is interesting.

185

It's an acronym like our THRIVE acronym.

186

DELTA stands for dignity, embodiment,

love, transcendence, and agency.

187

Dignity, everyone has inherent worth apart

from their economic value or productivity.

188

Embodiment, we're not just brains, right?

189

We embody bodies and the physical, the

relational, like we were alluding to.

190

Love, which is a Christian ethic that

is what really the engine behind Delta,

191

transcendence was this idea of , there's

something about life that gives it meaning

192

that's beyond ourselves, that this isn't

all there is, our jobs, our lives even.

193

And then agency, the idea that we need

to be, have freedom and responsibility

194

to make moral and ethical choices.

195

And they provide that kind of more as

principles for us to help to evaluate

196

how we use AI, but it doesn't really,

David, , tell leaders what to do, , on a

197

Monday morning in that team meeting when

it comes to the line they draw around AI.

198

So would love for you to just, A, react

to that framework and kind of any of

199

those threads that, you'd like to pull

on, but also just what are you seeing

200

around leadership right now and how

they're dealing and analyzing their own

201

use of AI and where the conversation and

questions are slanted more towards, right?

202

Is it more of the principles like

Delta and asking big kind of framework

203

questions, or is it more steered

towards the simple kind of practical

204

execution of the, the tool itself?

205

David: Yeah.

206

Well, I think this framework, the

Delta framework, is something we

207

certainly resonate with because it

gets after, the way we're made and

208

our souls and what's at the core of

who we are and our value, which is

209

important to have at the forefront as

we have this conversation ar-around AI.

210

I think most of the leaders that we're

working with, that we're seeing are

211

looking at it from a practical standpoint.

212

You know, they, they're looking

at it from a place of, "How is

213

this gonna make my work better?

214

Thinking through the ways in

which it impacts jobs that we

215

have and the people that we have.

216

There are many leaders that we're working

with who also have not entered this space

217

of AI, and we have some older leaders

that we work with who are our generation

218

or , I should say my generation and- The

219

Rob: Ulysses generation.

220

There

221

David: it is.

222

And, adapting to technology is not

a thing and are, they're actually in

223

a significance phase of their lives.

224

They're not paying attention as much

to how their work is going to change.

225

And to be honest, we are needing to,

help them see how much they need to think

226

about this when it comes to succession,

because the leaders coming after them

227

are gonna work in a world that's much

different than what they're used to

228

because of the influence of AI, which

goes back to what I was saying about

229

our level of expertise in this to help

counsel and come alongside these leaders.

230

So all that to say, it's more practical

whether they're using it or not, whether

231

they're experimenting with the ways in

which it can help some of their processes,

232

, whether they're using it to, everything

from streamlining email so they're not

233

underneath emails all the time, and

they're using AI to help them with that

234

to, All the things that we are learning

about every day that AI tools can use.

235

I would say less of the conversation is

about the value conversation around this

236

and what it shows us about who we are

and what we believe success truly is.

237

Which again, is a banner that we try to

hold up, with our leaders, is to keep

238

in front of them what's the main thing.

239

How do we make sure we're not deviating

from what truly is important and why

240

we do what we do that ultimately gets

back to many of the ideas that come

241

from that Delta framework, that comes

back to value and dignity and everyone.

242

Rob: Mm.

243

David: You know, all people, , those

in our communities at various

244

levels, not just our own little

microcosms in our little communities.

245

But again, if we're about rejoicing the

city, the whole city when it comes to

246

our work and what we talk about here

247

space for this kind of thinking as it

relates to AI and what truly we value

248

to make sure we're not letting the

tyranny of the urgent or the speed at

249

which this is going to get us off track.

250

Rob: Yeah.

251

Yeah, I think that's good.

252

And it reminds me of our work, the

whole idea of the practice of AI versus

253

the principles, you know, that we need

to be asking ourselves, does a leader

254

need to have a strategy and a strategic

plan in place and think about goals?

255

Yes.

256

But also in our work, we're encouraging

them to have a leadership philosophy

257

and a personal mission, a sense

of their own why and what their

258

beliefs are and their core values.

259

And so I think that this is a mirror

of that because AI is the same way.

260

we need to be thinking about the

practical execution of it, but we

261

also need to zoom out 10,000 feet and

say, what's our philosophy around AI?

262

What's my personal philosophy and

that aligns with my own convictions?

263

And how-- Then AI and what I do with

it is just an extension of living

264

out that why and what our company's

ultimately for, how we define success.

265

And honestly, that mirror that AI could

hold up can reveal that we actually were

266

not really clear on that to begin with.

267

AI is gonna , make it really wonky

if we lack that clarity at the very

268

top on the things that matter most.

269

So Andy Crouch, I mentioned him

earlier he's recently put out some

270

more thought leadership on this on the

Good Faith podcast, and he frames it

271

as a choice, this idea which I love.

272

He…

273

Andy Crouch is a master of just

putting things really succinctly.

274

Run AI through the lens of love

or through the lens of power.

275

So love, he talks about orders people over

profit, power orders profit over people.

276

So how does that choice actually

shape the way a leader uses AI

277

towards helping people thrive or

towards squeezing more out of them?

278

David: Yeah.

279

I think you just said it.

280

Y- you're right.

281

This framework is good.

282

So I'm for certain have not thought of

AI and looked at my motivation from a

283

place of whether it's love or power.

284

Certainly, I want to

say it's a lens of love.

285

So now that I've heard this,

I'm now thinking about that in

286

terms of what that means for us.

287

Like, how are we using it in

a way that lifts everybody up?

288

How do we use it in a way

that encourages thriving?

289

How do I let go of keeping up, this

need to keep up and stay current?

290

How do I give up this drive for

continued efficiency and productivity?

291

'Cause what I'm concerned about is that

we're gonna do things quicker, but that

292

means we're just gonna do more things.

293

And

294

Rob: the stats are already

backing that up, right?

295

Like the, the idea of people

are actually not working less

296

because of the efficiency.

297

They're actually sometimes working more.

298

David: So the idea that this is gonna

create more margin for us, we're

299

just filling up that margin with

more things to do, more desire for

300

productivity, which is again, a mirror

back on ourselves about what we truly

301

value and how we think about success.

302

If I pursue AI from a place of

love, a place of rest, a place of

303

security, a place of inherent value

that's not driven by my productivity

304

or efficiency, then I can again go

into it open-handed and really think

305

about the ways in which it's going to

306

Let all boats rise.

307

Now, as I say that, I

realize that I don't know.

308

People who are in these worlds know

all of the different complexities,

309

all of the dynamics that are coming in

the future and the what it means know

310

the challenges that are ahead and are

really dealing with the implications

311

of how it truly is gonna change the

way we live and work and view people.

312

We're gonna look back and go,

"This is just like the internet,"

313

it just changed everything.

314

So I don't wanna be naive in saying

what we're saying now, and again,

315

this may be outdated in a month.

316

Because I think there's a level of

concern and real questions of ethics

317

and safety and security that come

with all this that we need to pay

318

attention to, but also not be afraid of.

319

And again, we don't have to

be afraid of it because we

320

know where our security lies.

321

And so it's always a both/and.

322

You know, we always come back

323

with us for for a long time.

324

You know, we always come back to this

both/and nuanced piece where, yes, we're

325

gonna pursue and lean into AI, but we're

also gonna do it with a questioning heart,

326

with one that's gonna understand that the

principles and the values that we hold

327

true have to be in place, and we're not

gonna sacrifice those no matter what.

328

Rob: Hmm.

329

David: So I don't know if that's what it

means to pursue it from a lens of love

330

versus a lens of power, but it's certainly

not going all in on, keeping up with

331

the Joneses to make sure we get ahead.

332

And that's what we wanna

warn people not to do.

333

Rob: Let's stress test this a

couple ways, in ways I think

334

that will resonate with leaders.

335

Both having to do with their teams.

336

This is real life.

337

You're seeing how AI can now

do parts of jobs and sometimes

338

absorb entire jobs, right?

339

Like an entire maybe even

industries of people who are saying,

340

coders, as an example, right?

341

Of like, man, there's not really

as much of a market as - anymore

342

for entire vocations, because AI

can simply do some things so much

343

more efficiently than a person can.

344

So Dave, if you're a leader and you're

in a field where AI is making things

345

so much more efficient, and for the

business, for growth for profit, it,

346

it-- the efficiency move is to maybe

rearrange the org chart or absorb

347

roles, combine them, sunset them.

348

The rubber really hits the road around

love, power, people, profit, when

349

they feel like they both can't win.

350

What counsel would you provide

a leader asking that question

351

around what they should then do?

352

David: I wish there was a simple phrase.

353

We need Andy Crouch in to s-

help us understand it succinctly.

354

This is where it gets really complex.

355

, I think we're not gonna say, the,

the lens of love is necessarily that

356

you've gotta keep people in that

job or that you can't let people

357

go as a result of this efficiency.

358

But if that happens, you should

consider, are there opportunities

359

to retrain them in other jobs?

360

Is there a way they can

be redeployed in some way?

361

Or if we do need to exit them, how

can that be handled with real dignity?

362

I wanna say that, if we look back at

every technological advance, and I think

363

at the time that those technological

advances were happening, we all said

364

that things were gonna go away and that

jobs were gonna be lost, et cetera, and

365

there was a sense of urgency around this.

366

And I wanna say we got real creative and

found other ways for people to be engaged

367

in meaningful jobs, and that we found

opportunities to show value to people

368

without just simply disregarding them.

369

Now, that's easy for me to say.

370

There are realities where someone's

listening to this who just got laid off-

371

because their job was taken over by AI,

and they really don't know where to go.

372

And we understand, , my previous

career in Jobs for Life, understand how

373

deeply impactful it is to be without

work and how that impacts our dignity.

374

It's a really tough time.

375

So again, this is why this is complex as

leaders, because how do we care for people

376

when that can be some of the reality?

377

There may not be an easy answer for

that, but we should be asking all

378

these questions and trying to come

up with strategies that can enable

379

people to be in a place where they

can thrive as much as we can- … as

380

much as we have a responsibility for.

381

I don't know if there's

a clean answer there.

382

I think honestly, some of it is TBD.

383

We're still in the middle of it, and

we don't know all the implications,

384

and we may never know because

of how this is ever-evolving.

385

Rob: Yeah.

386

I think referencing back to the,

the D in the Delta framework

387

of dignity there, you're right.

388

Like, this is not a new question.

389

Business leaders have had to make

hard personnel choices since the

390

beginning of time, uh, due to external

factors, market changes, right?

391

Like, profit isn't what it used to be.

392

AI is just a new framework, right?

393

To say, "Oh, well, this the new

thing we have to now react to."

394

So in some ways, you just double down on

the values that you always have, right?

395

If you're aspire to be an 1110 leader,

and you're committed to people's thriving,

396

because if their job fundamentally just

doesn't need to be there anymore, right?

397

Or needs to change, it isn't loving

to just ignore that and keep them

398

around, because people want to work in

meaningful jobs where they're contributing

399

and have a high sense of value.

400

And so if that has changed, then how

do we understand what their why is and

401

what their sense of purpose is, and how

do we commit and go above and beyond to

402

help them find the new version of that?

403

Whether that's, like you're saying,

retraining or redeploying within our

404

company, or rolling out our Rolodex to

saying, "I'm gonna contact whoever I

405

need to help you find a new landing spot.

406

I don't have to do that, but I'm

committed to you more than just

407

what you can do to produce for me."

408

And that's what 1110 leaders

do, that maybe the market doesn't

409

demand, but that love does.

410

David: It's counterintuitive, but as I

hear you talking and thinking through

411

what you're saying, it highlights how

much leaders need to have that margin that

412

we've talked about on so many episodes.

413

And they really, if AI is gonna be

helpful to them, they really should take

414

advantage of the margin it gets them

because they're gonna have to double

415

down on how they care for their people.

416

Like, there's an anxiety, epidemic

that's in our culture that just is, fuel

417

on the fire with AI being added to it

because of the anxiety that comes with

418

how this impacts my job and my value.

419

And so leaders that just are gonna

say, "Well, we're gonna go for it,"

420

you know, "We're just gonna, le-

go all in on this AI stuff and be

421

motivated by that power dynamic,"

while recognizing that they're now

422

more than ever, their people need their

attention they will miss it big time.

423

Hmm.

424

Miss it big time and not recognize

what's ultimately most valuable

425

to them, which is their people.

426

And our nature is to just produce

versus truly care about our people.

427

If we care about our people,

we're wanting them to produce

428

versus truly just caring for

them for who they are and

429

understanding they are our why

430

They're why we do what we do.

431

And ultimately it's about their

thriving and ultimately our cities

432

rejoicing- … which is about

people dancing in the streets.

433

People.

434

Rob: People, yeah.

435

Not robots.

436

David: No.

437

High-fiving- … dancing,

celebration, exaltation.

438

Things we long for that fill

our souls to the deepest level

439

that we desperately need.

440

That's what we're talking about, and

we can't take our eye off the ball.

441

Rob: Yeah, that's so good.

442

And, staying with the theme of how

this relates to people thriving and our

443

people thriving, the people that we're

called to serve through our leadership

444

you know, that the Lord has brought

on our path for this place and time.

445

It's interesting right now there's

even just a lot of argument from

446

leadership experts around the best way

to utilize AI in a way that galvanizes

447

a healthy team culture, right?

448

We've seen Harvard Business Review

came out with an article recently

449

around how AI can supercharge your

strategy because it can run, thousands

450

more scenarios of what you should

do than any human mind can hold.

451

And w- which they argue is a positive

because it gives you more - options to

452

choose from, , versus maybe you and I

could, in a room, could only think of

453

four, and we just can't think of 10,000.

454

, but it also mentions that it it can

help strategy because it strips out the

455

team politics around decision-making.

456

This idea that when the leader's in a

room, people aren't really being truly

457

honest because they're weighing what

the honesty could cost them, and so

458

they may hold back on their opinion.

459

Whereas if you're running, scenarios

through AI, you're getting more

460

objective propositions because no one's

weighing how it's gonna harm their role.

461

And yet the other side of this, is the

counterargument that we're seeing too,

462

is that if a leader microwaves decisions

and is going on this journey with AI and

463

talking to it for an hour about strategy

and gets so far past their team, then they

464

actually have the conundrum of going back

to their team and trying to sell them on

465

a strategy that they weren't a part of.

466

And so now they're having to slow back

down to bring them along of how they

467

got to that decision and how it impacts

them because they need their buy-in.

468

And so this goes back to the

wrinkles, David, of like how much

469

do we get our iron out, and is the

goal to really wrinkle through all

470

of the, the inefficiencies of- Yeah

471

decision-making when it

comes- Yeah … to leadership.

472

So- Yeah … what are your reaction?

473

Where do you fall on that continuum?

474

G- give us some wisdom.

475

Well,

476

David: again, it's both/and.

477

We wanna highlight the real benefits

and the opportunities that AI provides.

478

But we have to be very careful

from eliminating pain from our life.

479

Rob: Mm.

480

David: When you hurt yourself, you

can feel it, and then you fix it.

481

If we were hurt and we didn't experience

pain and we didn't know how to fix

482

what was broken, then -- we wouldn't

know you had to fix it, right?

483

So it's, how do we keep the journey alive?

484

How do we keep the pain alive?

485

How do we go through the mess

still and bring people along?

486

Because that's where real learning

happens, and that's where ultimate success

487

takes place where you have things last

for the long haul versus the quick fix.

488

So and this is no different.

489

When we come alongside and we see a leader

is leading from a top-down mentality

490

they're not bringing people along,

they're just telling people what to do,

491

that doesn't lead to a thriving culture.

492

AI is just gonna accentuate that if

that's the kind of leader that they are.

493

It's gonna, multiply it 10 times that

kind of dynamic in their leadership.

494

So it's gonna make that worse.

495

So again, it's almost a turbocharge on

who we are, which is why we're talking

496

about this like this, this is a mirror.

497

And so all the more reason to be

self-reflective during this time to

498

understand where we need to grow in

our leadership so that any tool that

499

we use, whether it's AI or anything

else, is gonna accentuate the kind

500

of leadership that leads to thriving.

501

And we can be assured that thriving

is at the other side of pain.

502

Rob: Hmm.

503

David: Deep celebrate- Thriving isn't

504

Rob: the elimination of it.

505

Yes.

506

David: Yeah.

507

It's not elimination of it, and it

may be helpful to help us navigate it,

508

but it certainly shouldn't eliminate

it because deep celebration comes

509

through the struggle, getting through

the struggle- … of the journey.

510

And we just cannot take that out of our

experience, of our leadership, or the

511

way we walk with our teams, our people.

512

So to the extent we can do both

at the same time, and again, this

513

takes world-class leadership.

514

Rob: Yeah.

515

David: Takes people who understand

this nuance, not afraid of AI,

516

understand how it needs to happen

and lead into it and go all in on

517

our people, all at the same time.

518

High level on both.

519

Again, another element in our

world that's gonna require

520

leaders to step up their game.

521

Rob: Hmm.

522

Yeah, and this is an ongoing conversation.

523

With the, the wrestling around this is

gonna continue, and it probably will

524

pop up again uh, in our conversation

as we go on our podcast, because

525

this isn't going away anytime soon.

526

So- Mm-hmm … David, you've hit

a lot of key points here, uh,

527

that I think will really resonate.

528

But how do we land the plane and give

a bottom line around what just AI

529

looks like, and to really aspire to

530

both in practice and in posture and

principle around artificial intelligence?

531

David: Yeah.

532

Well, I think if anything, a takeaway

from today for all of you who are

533

listening is to ask yourself, "Am I

approaching AI from a lens of love, or am

534

I approaching it from a lens of power?"

535

Mm.

536

Where do you land on that spectrum?

537

We don't have clean definitions

of what those two lenses are.

538

We have a sense of those definitions

based on what we've talked about today.

539

But where do you land, and

where do you wanna move toward?

540

And in light of that, how does that

a reflection on your leadership

541

so that you do, , an assessment

of where you are, because either

542

way it's gonna augment, AI's gonna

augment where you are as a leader.

543

And so, you wanna make sure that the

things that you want to be about as

544

a leader are highlighted through the

way you think about, approach, and

545

utilize AI for yourself and your team.

546

And then see what steps that then leads

you to take, some tangible one or two

547

next steps that you're intentional

about to ensure that you're leading

548

from the lens that you wanna lead from.

549

And of course, we're happy to continue

the conversation and figure this

550

out with you if you're interested.

551

Rob: All right.

552

Good stuff, my friend.

553

This is, as always appreciate your

insights and, thankful to be wrestling

554

on the journey with you through the pain-

555

David: Yes

556

… Rob: towards thriving.

557

David: Same here, Rob.

558

Now, over and out, David Ulysses Spickard.

559

Rob: There it is, dropping

the microphone right there.

560

Till next time.

561

David: Thanks, Rob.

562

Speaker: To learn more about

563

website at 1110leadership.

564

com.

565

That's the numerals one, one,

then spelled out T E N leadership.

566

com.

567

That's one, one T E N leadership.

568

com.

569

There you'll find more resources

to equip you on the journey

570

of becoming an 1110 leader.

571

You can also get connected to

our growing leadership network.

572

If you've enjoyed this episode,

share it with a friend.

573

To help others find us, you can also

rate and review us on Apple podcasts

574

or wherever you listen to podcasts.

575

Transcripts provided by

Transcription Outsourcing, LLC.