If you’ve ever said “I could do that!” when you see cool bike influencer content, this episode is for you!

In this episode we get a peek behind the curtain into Marley’s life as a professional cycling influencer and athlete, from contracts & comments to authenticity and selling out. Ellen’s perspective as a marketing professional helps you understand what brands are looking for when working with individual influencers, and Marley breaks down the work that happens to make this lifestyle a reality.

If you're ready to start your own account, we hope you do! The world needs as many unique bodies on bikes as possible.

00:55 Engagement and Social Media

04:21 Influencer Life

08:33 Contracts and Brand Relationships

16:59 Ethics, Disclosures and Fairness

24:31 Crafting Your Pitch to Brands

26:23 The Challenges of Content Creation

34:45 Navigating Sponsorships in the Bike Industry

Mentioned in this episode:

This episode is supported by BikeTiresDirect.com. Use code ALLBODS for 10% off your order, and for 6% to go toward supporting future episodes of the All Bodies on Bikes podcast. Thanks!

I think people get jealous 'cause they see my

2

life and my life is incredible.

3

I'm not going to lie.

4

But there's a lot of

work involved as well.

5

Ellen: I get jealous of your life.

6

I'll be real.

7

Marley: This is a topic we could

clearly talk on for a very long time.

8

It's fascinating.

9

I'm always learning new things.

10

And I love that Ellen, you can provide

the marketer's perspective on it.

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Welcome to All Bodies on Bikes,

the podcast where all bodies are

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good bodies, all bikes are good

bikes, and all rides are celebrated.

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Ellen: All Bodies on Bikes is a

movement to create and foster a

14

radically inclusive bike community.

15

So join your hosts.

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I'm Ellen.

17

And I'm Marley.

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As we explore the complexities

of the biking world.

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Help us break down barriers and

create the world that we want to see.

20

Marley: And don't forget that all bodies

really means all bodies, not just larger

21

bodies, but bodies of all sizes, ages,

races, Abilities, genders, sexualities.

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And beyond.

23

Come along for the ride.

24

Are you texting Instead

of talking to me now,

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Yeah, sorry.

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Ellen: it's rude.

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Marley: I know.

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I was being a good sponsored athlete

and looking at my comments on

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Instagram so I could engage with them

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Ellen: Aw.

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Marley: engagement is,

uh, the name of the game.

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Ellen: Engagement.

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Engagement.

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Marley: Engagement.

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Uh,

36

speaking of, I've been wearing

my old engagement ring just

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to feel fancy sometimes.

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Ellen: I love that.

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Marley: Right after we broke up, I

tried to sell it and because it's a,

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well, don't make that face like it.

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Ellen: That.

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Marley: I mean, what else am

I supposed to do with this?

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Beautiful.

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I tried to give it back to him.

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I was like, well, you bought it for me.

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Ellen: I am truly sorry that I made

a face about you trying to get some

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money outta your broken engagement.

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Marley: I love that I can just

like see your face and be like,

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oh yeah, she's judging me.

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Ellen: sorry.

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Marley: It's okay.

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Don't be sorry.

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Bring it on.

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Bring me your unhinged judgment.

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Ellen: We're not sponsored by

Diamond people, so it doesn't

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matter what we say about diamonds.

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Tell me how you've made an

ethical diamond and I'll listen.

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Marley: and then I'll regurgitate it

on Instagram for all my followers to

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see and hopefully comment on and then

I will engage with those comments.

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Ellen: Full circle.

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I like it.

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Do you know what I just realized?

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Marley: No.

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Ellen: Our color scheme

is inverse of each other.

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My hair is purple.

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And your shirt is purple.

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Your earrings are teal

and my shirt is teal.

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Marley: Oh my God.

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Ellen: How good are we at this, if

anyone would like to see this, the

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video is on Spotify and YouTube as well.

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Marley: And you can watch us make awkward

faces and not be aware of ourselves.

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I watch some podcasts and their

faces always look so good.

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And then I watch our recordings

and I'm like, what was I thinking?

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Ellen: exactly what's on your face.

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Marley: Yes.

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Ellen: It's like I know

exactly what you're thinking.

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Marley: That's fair.

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That's fair.

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Ellen: Well, tell me more about

your shirt though, Marley.

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Marley: Oh, this is my Shredly Fast

as a mother effing manatee shirt.

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For the last two years I have got

to make a collaboration line with

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Shredly, which is every athlete's dream.

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This year we are switching to

ice creams, because ice cream

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plays an outsize role in my book,

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Shredly's actually coming out with a

new gravel line of cycling clothing.

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So they're coming out with like

tights and they already had bibs,

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but now they're gonna have like a

more form fitting, um, jersey, and

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I'm super, super stoked about it.

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And I think other gravel

and road folks will be too.

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But, um, and it, oh my

God, this is so wild.

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It has my signature on it,

like literally my name.

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Ellen: Literally a signature collection.

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Marley: Yeah.

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Ellen: So now we can all take

your signature and sign things.

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Marley: Good luck.

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There's not any money to be had, so

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Ellen: Hey folks, we're gonna

teach you how to do something

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that doesn't make any money.

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Marley: that's not true.

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I actually, uh, all transparency,

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than I've ever made previously.

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Thank you.

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Ellen: That's a big deal.

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I'm sure it was very easy,

and all you have to do is post

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to Instagram once or twice.

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Marley: Brands just come outta the

woodwork and say, let me give you $10,000

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just for being your cute, weird self.

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Ellen: Yeah.

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Authenticity.

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Sell, man.

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Marley: I mean, it truly does.

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And sometimes the conversations actually

do go like that, where they're like, we

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love you, we just want you to be yourself.

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Uh, here's some money to do that.

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But That is the exception

rather than the norm.

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Ellen: Okay, so we're gonna dive into your

life as a, as an influencer, as someone

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who is getting sponsored by people, um,

to hopefully be yourself, but at the

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very least, to borrow your expertise to

like kind of share your, have your voice

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be a part of their voice in the world.

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So we wanna, I wanna know more about this.

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I wanna know all kinds of things.

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What would you say is like

an overarching part of this?

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What is like if I say I wanna do this.

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How do you do it?

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What's your first thought?

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Marley: Oh, that's such a good question.

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Um, it is all about relationships.

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Um, whereas like with a traditional

job, you've got one boss.

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When you are sponsored or working

as an influencer, you have as many

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bosses as companies that are working

that, that you're working with.

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And so you are constantly trying

to juggle, um, you know, the, the

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requirements of one contract, the

requirements of another contract, um,

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creating content for X, y, Z brand.

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And so there it's, it's

really good if you like.

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Having a schedule that is

completely bonkers and you thrive

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off of, um, a lack of consistency

and routine, um, and hustling.

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Um, and you really have to,

you, you do have to hustle.

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You've gotta put yourself out there,

you've gotta be okay with the "No"s,

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but you've also gotta be really, um.

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I guess secure and confident

in your offer to these brands

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because influencers and, um,

I, I, I struggle because I'm

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like, am I an influencer?

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Am I a sponsored athlete?

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I think I kind of toe the line,

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um, because I am getting paid as if I'm a

professional athlete by a couple brands.

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You know, I'm under contract with them.

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I have specific things I need to do.

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Um, I'm not getting paid

for podiums, obviously.

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Um.

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'cause that would be a losing

prospect for all of us.

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Um, but I am getting paid as if

I was a, a, a sponsored athlete.

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Um, so I kind of have two,

two funnels of income.

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Right now I have like my long-term

brand partnerships like Shimano Shredly.

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Um, for the past four years

I worked with Cannondale.

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I no longer am working with them

as a bike sponsor, but that's a

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relationship where we are working

together for the entire year.

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Um, we've got projects together

and I get a set salary.

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Um, the other side of things that

I do is like one-off influencer

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projects with specific brands.

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And so like last year I did a

big project with EF Adventures.

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Where I got to go to France, got

to ride the tour to France Femme.

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Um, and so I got paid a certain amount

to deliver specific content deliverables,

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so certain reels and stories, and

so I basically pull a bunch of those

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together and that's how I make my living.

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Ellen: That's so interesting.

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It's cool that you have this kind of the.

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The two different tracks that you

have to where you can, you've got some

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steady income, you know what your year

is gonna look like, and then you've

169

got options to plug and play with

other opportunities that come along.

170

Um, do you hope that those opportunities

turn into long term or is it Yeah.

171

Like what's

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Marley: I mean, I hope they, I hope they

turn into like long-term relationships

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where it's like they think of me

when they're like, Hey, we've got

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this new campaign coming out, or,

um, they want to work with me again.

175

But the thing that I've found is like.

176

The long term partnerships often pay

less than these one-off content pieces.

177

Um, because content creation has become

such a big game that, um, for example,

178

I have a contract coming up, um, for

a three month deal with a brand with

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specific content that I'll make as

much from that three month contract

180

as I did in two years previously.

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Ellen: Hmm.

182

Marley: So, and I think that's,

that's also a growing thing.

183

Um, and what I mean by that is

like, as your platform grows

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as an influencer, um, and as a

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content creator, um, I think there's more

money to be made in those short-term deals

186

than there is in the long-term deals.

187

And that's also 'cause the bike

industry is just not doing very well.

188

Um, and so there's more

money to be made elsewhere.

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Ellen: Yeah.

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Tell me about how you

would look at a contract.

191

So what I just heard in there is an

assumption that it's kind of like.

192

The price per content declined.

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So is there a threshold that you look to

for how much work you're doing, or is it

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like you kind of, you do the math and you

won't do it if it's under a certain level?

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Marley: Uh, yeah, I, I

won't work for free anymore.

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I used to work for like gifted content

or gifted product where it's like, we'll

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send you a tent, you make us a reel.

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And I'm like, okay, yeah, that's

great, but tents don't pay my bills

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or sleeping bags or tires or whatever.

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And so now like payment is like a.

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Bare minimum,

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like you have to pay me.

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Um, and then it just depends on, you know,

who the brand is, what their product is.

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Um, I'm pretty selective about

the brands that I work with.

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You know, if it's not a brand that

I truly like and use their product,

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I'm not gonna make content for you.

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And I think that's a difference between

me and a lot of other influencers where

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they'll just go for, you know, who's

ever willing to pay them money, but.

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I want my audience to trust me and I

want them to come to me for advice.

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And if I am just willy-nilly

throwing out brands that are

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paying me the highest paycheck,

that trust is like totally eroded.

212

Um, so yeah, I think, uh, just to

give a ballpark, you know, for, for

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one real right now, like a reel in a

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Ellen: That's great.

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Marley: Yeah.

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Ellen: Good job.

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I'm very excited by that number.

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Marley: Thank you.

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Ellen: I can just go out and do

my own reel and my own instead,

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just start charging $2,000.

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Um, not true.

222

What you just described though, kind

of does give me a view of how you grow.

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You were at one point when you

were starting out doing swapsies,

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and then as your platform grew, as

your brand grew, you could ask for

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more and ask for more and ask for

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Marley: exactly.

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Ellen: And that I think is a really,

if you are someone who's listening and

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wants to start doing, this is a good

way to, to position this is say process.

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This is not a kaboom situation.

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Marley: Yeah.

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And the other thing is

you develop a reputation.

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You know, brands talk to each other and

brand managers talk to each other and

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they will share, and I've heard this from

brand managers, they say like, oh, that.

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Person was really difficult to work with.

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You know, it was, they didn't deliver

things on time or, we had to go

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back for revisions multiple times.

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And so, being somebody that these

brands want to work with and making

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yourself responsive to emails, you

have to treat it like a real job.

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You know, you have to respond

to emails after the campaign.

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You need to send follow up

metrics and thank you notes.

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It's all about relationship

building and I think a lot of

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people treat it transactionally.

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And to be successful, you really can't.

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Ellen: And I'll say from my

side of things as a marketer.

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It's choosing this channel

over another channel.

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It's choosing to put my dollars

behind you instead of something else.

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I have to report back to my superiors

about how this campaign performed.

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And it's not just that I'm gonna do, I'm

not gonna lump all of my influencers into

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one bucket because I need to understand,

did Marley's perform better than.

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Shirley's better than

Burley's, better than Hurley's.

251

And so providing those, being

proactive is helping me do my job,

252

is helping me like understand that I can

trust you as the person buying into this.

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Marley: It's, it's also,

oh, sorry, go ahead.

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Ellen: I was gonna change shift gears.

255

So what were you gonna add?

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Marley: Oh, I was just gonna say,

it's, it's really interesting

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when you report these metrics back

because every company is looking for

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something a little bit different.

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So some of them will provide

you with like a UTM link.

260

Um, so it's like a link that you put

in your bio and they're tracking the

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number of clicks, um, that you drive.

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Um, and I, I like doing.

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Content like that.

264

Um, I, I think my res, my audience

is pretty responsive, but there's

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other brands who aren't necessarily,

they're not looking for that.

266

They're looking for brand

awareness, um, as their metric.

267

And so, you know, number of comments,

number of shares, number of saves.

268

And so every time you interact

with my content on social media.

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That's being tracked.

270

Um, and

271

not specifically, it's, it's

being tracked in a very good way.

272

Um, so, you know, if you see content

that one of your favorite content

273

creators or athletes puts out and

it appears to be sponsored, a,

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there should be a disclosure on it.

275

That's something that

drives me absolutely batty.

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Can we come back to that

and talk about that?

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Ellen: Yep.

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Marley: Um, but, so there

should be a disclosure on that.

279

And then, B you should interact with it.

280

Uh, like share, save, send to a friend.

281

That all helps, um, whoever the

content creator is, uh, and the brand.

282

And yeah, it's a really easy way

that you can support folks even

283

if you don't have the money to

buy what they are hawking at you.

284

Ellen: Yes, the metrics that matter to

them should be defined at the beginning.

285

You should have in your contract

with them, I'm assuming you

286

can, you can provide the details

around this, but there will be a.

287

Like, here's what we're looking at

to understand if this is successful.

288

And marketing does have

those different phases.

289

Sometimes it is about just

get my name out there.

290

Other times it's about driving sales.

291

Other times it's about referral

or growing the audience.

292

Like there are these very different

steps that I am looking at as a marketer.

293

And it's, it's called the funnel.

294

And if you ever wanna get nerdy

about that with me, I'm very ready.

295

Um, but it has a lot to do.

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It's like, you know, brand

awareness needs big numbers.

297

Marley: Yes.

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Ellen: Sales needs smaller

but higher quality numbers.

299

So it all has to do with what is this?

300

What are you trying to do?

301

And it helps you phrase

your messages the right way.

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It helps you know, do I just need to say

this is such a cool brand, or do I need

303

to say there's a thing I want you to do,

and it's go to that site and it helps

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you, like, that'll help you all just

be on the same page from the beginning.

305

Everybody understands what's going on.

306

Marley: Yeah.

307

Um, back to your question from like

10 minutes ago about other things

308

that I look for in contracts.

309

So I actually signed with an agency

about a year and a half, two years

310

ago, and they helped me with a lot

of my contracts now, and that's

311

primarily on the content creation.

312

Um, they do work with me on my

longer term contracts, but we're

313

looking for things like exclusivity.

314

If a brand partner wants me

to be exclusive and only use

315

their product within a segment

that's gonna cost more money.

316

We're looking for, uh, usage rights.

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You know, can they repost my

content on their own channels?

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Um, you know, what are we agreeing to

perpetuity, timelines, um, it gets pretty.

319

Nerdy and pretty intense.

320

Um, I learned to read

contracts pretty closely.

321

Um, the other interesting thing

that happens is there's often like

322

behavior contracts in there where

it's like you won't post anything

323

disparaging or anything that could

reflect the brand in a negative light.

324

Um, and so that's always in the back

of my mind when I'm creating other

325

content, even if it has nothing

to do with my sponsors, like.

326

I'm sponsored by Shimano, um,

and they have kind of a behavior

327

clause for all of their athletes.

328

Um, and it's like, I know that I'm not

gonna show myself getting super drunk.

329

These are not things I would do

anyway, but, you know, getting super

330

drunk, riding my bike in an unsafe

way and causing mayhem because that's

331

gonna reflect poorly on my sponsors.

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Ellen: Yeah, I was gonna mention

this when you talked a little bit

333

about finding the right brands.

334

Anyway, if you go into this, you need

to have your own set of those principles

335

because that helps you match well when

the brand has shared principles, and it

336

helps you say no if your gut is not in it.

337

You kind of can know why, and

it helps narrow the field.

338

I realize we're talking about a

pretty niche industry to begin with.

339

It's not like there's, you

know, a million clothing brands.

340

The way that there are cycling other

way around, it's not like there's

341

a million cycling brands the way

there are clothing brands, but.

342

There are plenty out there and they

are different for a reason, and

343

there's gonna be better alignment

with these than the others.

344

Understanding that helps you narrow

your focus, helps you narrow your

345

message, helps you know how to get

into relationships and partnerships

346

with these different brands.

347

Marley: Yeah.

348

Yeah.

349

And you really should like

the products that you are.

350

Promoting.

351

Um, for me that's been really easy

because the brands that I work with,

352

you know, Osprey, Shimano, ride

with GPS, shred all have incredible

353

products that I already use and love.

354

And so sharing that with my

audience is totally natural

355

and it's not a big stretch.

356

Back to your topic of saying no, I was

approached by like four different GLP

357

one companies last year to make content.

358

And that would've been really

quick, really easy money.

359

But they are all focused on weight loss.

360

Um, you know, and as I shared previously

in my article for Cycling Weekly, I was on

361

a GLP one and it was not for weight loss,

but as soon as that came out, the brand

362

just came outta the work, work woodwork of

like, oh, do you wanna promote this one?

363

Will you promote that one?

364

And I was like, I had to put a hard

line with my agent and say, I do not.

365

Anything weight loss related.

366

Um, and so I think I've probably missed

out on some earning opportunities, whether

367

from supplements or you know, whatever.

368

Ellen: But

369

Marley: important to me

to stick by, by my values.

370

Ellen: yes,

371

like you lose your entire

platform if you sell out.

372

Marley: exactly.

373

Yeah.

374

Ellen: It might have

been a big opportunity.

375

Yes, but in the long term,

it's not the right investment.

376

Marley: Exactly, and my audience

would see right through it and ask

377

questions and be like,

Marley, this is bullshit.

378

Ellen: Marley, you're a sellout.

379

Buy the like by the book, sellout.

380

Marley: Do you know what's funny?

381

My, my all time favorite song

is Sellout by Reel Big Fish.

382

Um, and it's been my favorite

song since like seventh grade.

383

Uh, and I still listen to it

and I'm like, I am a sellout.

384

And I am a hundred percent okay

with that because I am living my

385

dream, like I'm getting paid to ride

my bicycle and do cool things like

386

call me a sellout all you want.

387

It's fine.

388

Ellen: It is funny because

marketing is inherently somewhat

389

capitalistic and I am increasingly

anti-capitalist, and so I have a strange

390

relationship with my job sometimes.

391

Um, not, not this job,

but just my job, job.

392

And it's true though.

393

Like, and this is again, where it's

like, it's the big picture of it.

394

This is the system.

395

I alone cannot bring down capitalism.

396

That's a, that's a thing for another

397

Marley: As much as you're trying.

398

Ellen: Yeah, so I'm working within

the system and so what feels good

399

to me within the system to do, and

so I'm not gonna work for Brandy.

400

Like I, I have skills that could take

me to a Google, to a, to a Amazon

401

probably, maybe I'm tooting my own horn

too loudly, but it's not, I would not

402

go over there because that is just not a

match for what I wanna do in the world.

403

How do you make this all work?

404

You are getting paid to ride

your bike that is very exciting.

405

Marley: It's wild.

406

Ellen: It's.

407

Marley: wild.

408

Okay, can we go back to

talking about disclosures?

409

Ellen: Yes.

410

Marley: Okay, so I'm gonna

get real nerdy for a second.

411

The FTC, the federal, oh my

god, I should have known this.

412

Thank you.

413

The Federal Trade Commission has

very, very specific guidelines on.

414

When you need to disclose that something

is an ad, um, you know, if you're thumbing

415

through People Magazine or Newsweek

and there is like an ad section, if you

416

look at the very top and fine print, it

will say, this is a paid advertisement.

417

Same thing in newspapers.

418

Um, same thing actually, I noticed it

on a streaming platform the other day.

419

Like it says sponsored content.

420

Those regulations and rules are

supposed to apply to influencers.

421

An athlete, anytime you are provided

something for free or you are compensated

422

in exchange for a, like a, a post, you

are supposed to disclose that, um, you're

423

supposed to disclose it like within

the first line or two of the caption.

424

Um, the FTC actually we should link to

this 'cause the FTC has like a really good

425

infographic about this for influencers

426

that I think like 0.0%

427

of influencers follow.

428

It drives me nutty,

429

um, because it's just like, it's not fair.

430

You know, the algorithm on these

social media platforms, as soon as you

431

put hashtag ad or hashtag sponsored,

it feels like it gets less views.

432

And so I understand why other people

are not fully disclosing because

433

it does impact your engagement and

your views, but it's just not fair.

434

Like.

435

And fairness to me is

very, very important.

436

It always has been like, give me the same

size slice of cake as everybody else.

437

'cause that is not fair.

438

Uh, and it just like, I, I see

these posts from other influencers

439

and athletes and I want to comment

like, were you paid for this?

440

Where's your sponsorship disclosure?

441

But I know being petty is

not the name of the game.

442

Ellen: Yeah.

443

Marley: Yeah.

444

But I, I have written that

before and then erased it 'cause

445

it's not gonna do any good.

446

And then it's just like.

447

It's actually engaging with their

post, which is what we all want.

448

Uh, it just, I hate it when

people don't follow the rules

449

that we're all supposed to follow.

450

Ellen: Hey, I'm middle child.

451

I am right there with you.

452

Marley: Thank you.

453

Thank

454

Ellen: I get it,

455

but it's also

456

Marley: for a reason.

457

Ellen: yeah, inherent equality and

equity of these people are getting

458

away with something that you feel like

you would not and you don't want to.

459

'cause the rules are fair anyway.

460

Marley: yeah.

461

Also, you should know when somebody's

getting paid to sell you something.

462

Ellen: You should.

463

That's why they want, that's why

the rule is to disclose it because

464

it is ba, it's like introducing a

conflict of interest basically, of

465

them saying, I was paid to do this

466

even if you wanted to,

you were paid to do it.

467

Marley: exactly.

468

And I admit like there

is some gray area there.

469

So for some of my long-term, like with

Cannondale, every time I posted a picture

470

of me with a Cannondale bike, I didn't

necessarily say sponsored or gifted.

471

Um.

472

Ellen: Sure.

473

Marley: And I probably should have

if I'm following the letter of

474

the law, precisely from the FTC.

475

Um, but you gotta find a balance there.

476

You know, if I'm

477

explicitly telling somebody to buy

something and that I was paid to tell

478

them that like all the EF Adventures

posts, like those were very clearly

479

EF Adventure Partner sponsored

480

because I got paid I got paid

to go to France and go on this

481

incredible trip and try and get

you to sign up for that same trip.

482

Ellen: Well, and I think part of

that for me is that you it, and maybe

483

this isn't right, so maybe correct

me here, but EF approached you.

484

It's not like you sat there and said,

let me research every French e-bike

485

tour company to see that this is the

one that I recommend, or it's not like

486

every French tour company, every French

e-bike tour company went to you and

487

said, we're all giving you one ride.

488

Now you rank us like.

489

It is one company saying, we're gonna

pay you to have a good time and tell

490

everybody about it, which is different

than either of those other two situations,

491

and that's what we need to know.

492

We need to know that there wasn't

thought behind this other than they

493

said yes to me going on this trip.

494

Be it like we don't, you lose all

the other contexts that people are

495

expecting with that endorsement.

496

If it were presented as just I, Marley

Am telling you to go on this ride.

497

Marley: exactly.

498

Yeah.

499

Ellen: is the why.

500

Okay, but why?

501

Well, 'cause they paid me.

502

Marley: yeah, exactly.

503

Well, like for example, I went to the

Oregon coast recently and I made a reel

504

about my adventure on the Oregon coast.

505

And yes, the goal of that is to

hopefully get Travel Oregon or you

506

know, one of those beachfront towns to

see that and say, oh, we should hire

507

her to come out and make more content.

508

Or,

509

you know, another tourism bureau.

510

That's the goal of that one.

511

But I wasn't paid for that.

512

I paid for my own lodging.

513

I paid for my own gas,

I paid for everything.

514

And so I'm not gonna mark

that post as sponsored.

515

Because it wasn't, um, even

though, you know, if Travel Oregon

516

wants to use it, hey, reach out.

517

You know, we can give

you licensing rights.

518

Um, but yeah, it's all about disclosure,

you know, letting people know what

519

they're, what they're watching.

520

Ellen: Yeah, agreed.

521

Marley: Yeah.

522

Yeah.

523

Um, I think one other element that I'd

love to talk, I mentioned this at the

524

beginning, but, um, knowing what your.

525

Pitch is to these brands, why are

you a good salesperson for them?

526

And people have different

methods of doing this.

527

Um, I think the most effective

that I've found over the past

528

couple years is a media kit.

529

Um, so like pitch deck slash media kit.

530

I've got one on my website, um, that I

need to update, but essentially it is.

531

Here's who I am, here's

the content I make.

532

Here's why this is

important to your brand.

533

Here's my audience.

534

Um, knowing who your audience is, is key.

535

Um, so you gotta look

into your demographics.

536

For me, my sweet spot is women 35 to 65.

537

Um, primarily in the us but I

have a very large contingent in

538

Germany, interestingly enough.

539

Um, yeah, which we love.

540

Um, I mean, Germany's really into bikes.

541

Um, but knowing that, and

so when I, you know, pitch.

542

Tampas, or if I pitch REI, I can

say this to them like, Hey, I, I

543

know that you have a sales target.

544

That's a whole nother topic.

545

Re research the brand you're pitching

and see, you know, what is their

546

sales strategy for the next quarter,

and then incorporate that in.

547

Um, but yeah, just knowing

what your, what your value is.

548

For me as a plus-sized cyclist,

I can say to them, Hey, 70% of

549

the US lives in a bigger body.

550

This is an untapped market.

551

Like, let me

552

introduce my audience to your brand.

553

Um, and so yeah, that's, that's

554

kind of how I'd approach it.

555

Ellen: absolutely.

556

And that is Marketing 1 0 1 again is like.

557

Know your buyer.

558

Know what matters to them.

559

Know how you, how those pieces match

between you and them because they

560

want it to work as much as you do.

561

Have a perspective on the market.

562

Have a reason that they would

choose you over everybody else.

563

In a former life, I was a travel blogger.

564

Marley: What.

565

Ellen: there are, it's a long story, but

there are many travel bloggers and so I

566

went to a conference of travel bloggers

and I was like, I am such a pose, like

567

why would I start writing when there

are thousands of other people and it's

568

still, I, you as the producer have your

own unique perspective on all of this.

569

There is something about you

that is unique in this market.

570

Marley: Actually, I had

that experience recently.

571

I went to North Carolina with Atlas

Obscura and visit North Carolina.

572

It was like a creator trip, and so there

were, I think 10 of us there, and every

573

other person that was there, it was like.

574

A photographer or a travel blogger or a

travel content creator and I'm trying to

575

get more into the travel side of things,

um, just 'cause that's what I love to do.

576

That's where the money is at.

577

It's fun and you can incorporate cycling

into it so seamlessly and cycling is

578

such a good way to see these places.

579

But I had huge imposter syndrome

because all of these creators showed up.

580

With drones and tripods and

their whole like, fancy camera.

581

And I was like, cool.

582

I brought my phone.

583

But I tell you what, if you look

at the content that we made, so

584

for this trip that was interesting.

585

None of us were paid.

586

Um, which I typically

won't do an unpaid trip.

587

Um, but I was like, I'll

go to North Carolina.

588

All expenses paid like this sounds

like a really cool opportunity.

589

Um, and so there is times when

I will say yes to unpaid work.

590

Anyway, point being, you look at the

content that we all made, and even

591

the followers who have, or excuse

me, even the creators who have much

592

bigger audience as me, you know,

we're talking 300,000, 500,000 people.

593

My content performed better than theirs

in terms of comments, shares, reposts,

594

um, and I think that's because of

the way that my audience trusts me.

595

They know me

596

Ellen: Authenticity.

597

There's a certain production value

sweet spot to where if it starts

598

to look overproduced, it starts to

feel overproduced and not authentic.

599

Marley: I'm gonna lean into

that next time when I'm like,

600

I don't know what I'm doing.

601

Ellen: But that's true and.

602

Marley: Crappy content is authentic.

603

Ellen: I don't know.

604

I don't have any metrics to back it up.

605

That's where my, my nerdy brain is

like, I dunno what I'm saying, but

606

I know as just a normal consumer,

I trust a person who can, yeah.

607

I noticed this the other day

actually, when you can see that

608

someone's reading from a script,

609

Marley: Mm.

610

Ellen: even if I agree with, I know

that they're an authentic person.

611

I'm sitting here like.

612

Why did you need to script this?

613

Why did you not just know the content?

614

And there are plenty of very valid

reasons to script your content, but

615

like, I just noticed it, you know?

616

And so it's like this, the authenticity

is not to be discounted and you

617

are your most authentic self.

618

So I'm

619

Marley: And ideally,

actually this happened to me.

620

I had some content that I was doing

for a brand and they had like five

621

pieces of information that I had to get

out within the first like 15 seconds.

622

Um.

623

Which can be really, really hard.

624

And so I did read off a

teleprompter and I submitted my

625

first draft and the client came

626

back and said, Hmm, we

don't really love this.

627

It doesn't feel authentic.

628

Can you redo it?

629

And I did.

630

But it took a couple back and

forths of like, Hey guys, I can't

631

get all these infor, these data

points out that you want me to get

632

out without sounding like a robot.

633

And so it's, it's kind of a push

and pull in working with the client.

634

Um.

635

But it's, it's challenging and I think

that goes to another point of like, when

636

you are a sponsored athlete, you are

not, or a content creator or whatever.

637

That encompasses so many different skills.

638

Um, you know, from the, the business side

of things of reading contracts and filing

639

your taxes and doing all of that stuff

to the actual production side of things.

640

You know, filming things, knowing

lighting, knowing audio editing, um, it's.

641

There is a lot involved.

642

And then the marketing side of it, you

know, what captions are gonna get people

643

to engage, what links do I send them?

644

Um, there are just a lot of moving

parts that I think a lot of people are

645

like, I could be a content creator.

646

And then they try it.

647

It's like, holy cow, one reel

took me three days to make.

648

And it's like, yeah, it's a lot.

649

Ellen: Yeah, it is.

650

Um, that was one of my questions for

you before we had just a very good

651

conversation about it was like, how

much time and effort goes into a reel?

652

Like, and I say this because I'm

the person sitting here as the the

653

asshole who's like, I can do that.

654

I just don't want to.

655

Marley: yeah.

656

Yeah, I mean.

657

think for me, I tend to be a little more

off the cuff than other content creators.

658

Um, and I tend to come up

with my concepts on the fly.

659

A lot of people will sit down and

storyboard out the whole thing.

660

Um, for me, I, I have a general

idea and I'll go out and capture

661

the content, um, and then I come

back and I'll write the script and

662

then edit it and put it together.

663

So each reel, I mean.

664

We're looking at six to 12 hours,

um, depending on the content.

665

Um, my challenge right now is I

get super overwhelmed with the

666

amount of footage that I get.

667

So I have these dreams of being

more of a long form content creator.

668

And so I film all of this stuff.

669

Like I have so much footage from my

a hundred miles last year at Unbound

670

on my GoPro that is just doing

nothing because I'm like, I don't

671

know where to begin editing this.

672

Um, and so, yeah, it's.

673

You leave more on the cutting room

floor, like for each 32nd reel?

674

I probably have 30 minutes

to an hour of content.

675

Ellen: That's true of this podcast and

of the clips that we make, and like the

676

cheeser trailers that I make, I always

start with like a, well, however long

677

these episodes are is what I start with,

678

and then I have to kind of think through

what were the highlights, what's gonna

679

grab attention, what's funny, what's.

680

Sincere, um, how do I splice

it together to grab someone's

681

attention in the first 15 seconds?

682

'cause I think it's less than that, truly.

683

Marley: Oh yeah.

684

I think it's like the first three seconds

685

Ellen: yeah.

686

Marley: you look at like

the skip rate on reels.

687

Like people, if they don't, if

they're not engaged right away,

688

they, and I'm the same way.

689

I just scroll right past it.

690

Like, I'm like, I don't, bye.

691

Ellen: Yep.

692

Same Zs.

693

I think I have a longer attention span

for watching 'cause then I get the sunk

694

sunk cost fallacy of I've watched 10

minutes, I'm gonna see how this ends.

695

Then I get real annoyed when they end

like really boringly anyway, shorter.

696

Like, it's interesting when I forced

myself to make it a minute because

697

it's like the four minutes was

interesting, but it wasn't chopped.

698

Like, it wasn't like grabby and it wasn't.

699

Dynamic enough for, even for myself

going, like if I were to review,

700

like take an hour away from it

and come back, it's like, oh yeah,

701

no, this needs to move faster.

702

It needs to be, and I do think it's

better then because I've chosen

703

quality over length, like I've

taken the time to make it good.

704

Right?

705

Marley: yeah,

706

Ellen: it's all, it's all very related

and I very much, it takes time,

707

every time we have a, a post about it.

708

Marley: I made it real last night about, I

went to see the Crows roosting, um, and I.

709

Initially had it at like a three

minute long video and it was so cool.

710

And then I was just like,

this isn't gonna perform.

711

So I ended up cutting it down to like a

minute and a half, which is still a lot.

712

But I think I, I, I think

people will still watch it.

713

We'll see, it's funny 'cause I can

tell almost immediately when I put

714

something on social media if it's going

to perform well or not, like I'll post

715

it and then I'll go back within five

minutes and if there's not like probably

716

a hundred likes and five comments,

I'm like, oh, that reel is gonna flop.

717

Ellen: Interesting, which has

gotta be part of the algorithm.

718

Marley: Oh, a hundred percent.

719

A hundred percent.

720

Ellen: that's true across several

platforms, ad platforms at least

721

that I work on in the background.

722

Is it, it's like it, each algorithm

has a window where it is just

723

watching to see what happens

organically and then it will start to

724

Marley: it out.

725

Ellen: on or off based

on how that performs.

726

So

727

Marley: Yeah.

728

Ellen: in marketing.

729

At least on LinkedIn we call it the

Golden Hour and people try to hack.

730

It's like we're gonna

post it at this time.

731

Hey, everybody from the company go

interact with the Post 'cause then

732

it will get more organic exposure.

733

Marley: Yeah.

734

It's funny, this conversation has

turned into more about content

735

creation, but I was hoping to talk

about bike industry sponsorship and what

736

Ellen: let's do it.

737

Let's do it.

738

We have time.

739

Marley: We do have time.

740

Ellen: I can cut for length.

741

Marley: Editing magical powers.

742

Um, but yeah, I, I, I get a lot

of questions from folks about,

743

well, how do I get sponsored?

744

And it is, there is no

one good answer to that.

745

I mean, one good answer

is to be really fast.

746

You know, if you win unbound or if you

win a big race, you are likely going.

747

To garner sponsorships.

748

Um, but clearly that is

not the case with me.

749

I have literally never won a race.

750

I've gotten last place in multiple races.

751

Um, but for me it's

all about storytelling.

752

Um, you know, making those

relationships with the brands

753

and proving that my audience.

754

Is engaged and is a valuable

audience for them to engage with.

755

Um, it was really interesting this year.

756

So, um, I do not have a bike sponsor

757

Um, you know, not to toot my own horn, but

I was like one of the bicycling magazines,

758

riders of the Year a couple years ago.

759

I was an outsider of the

year from outside magazine.

760

Like it's.

761

Kind of surprising to

not have a bike sponsor.

762

Um, and I think it's just an indication of

where the bike industry is at right now.

763

And so, to be clear, nothing

wrong went wrong with Cannondale.

764

They were wonderful.

765

I loved working with them.

766

Um, but they're just struggling.

767

And so they actually had to drop a bunch

of riders from their roster, which sucks.

768

Um, 'cause I.

769

It's nice to like stick with the

same sponsor year after year,

770

that relationship building.

771

Um, but it's funny 'cause I put

that post up on Instagram about

772

I don't have a bike sponsor.

773

And people were like, oh, talk to

Liv, talk to salsa, talk to so-and-so.

774

And it's like, do you think I did it?

775

Um, I've been having these

conversations since about August.

776

You know, I could see

the writing on the wall.

777

So started talking to brands.

778

You know, you reach out, you send them

their pitch deck and then you just.

779

Talk about what a potential

relationship could look like.

780

Um, and I'm not ready to announce

it quite yet, but I do have

781

a bike sponsor for Mid-South.

782

Um, yeah.

783

And so I am kind of switching

techniques a little bit.

784

Instead of having like one bike

sponsor for the entire year, I'm gonna

785

go for like, event specific things,

786

um, to make sure that I'm on

like the best bike for that

787

purpose, um, and make content.

788

So I'm really, really excited about that.

789

Ellen: It's smart and it's a good way

to be strategic and to, I mean, again,

790

from the marketing side, it's like that's

a much easier, that's a smaller bite,

791

so I'm not giving you as much money,

but I'm gonna see if it works and see

792

if this, this is a magical combination.

793

Marley: Exactly.

794

Exactly.

795

Um, but you know, I'm, I'm resigned

to Shredly with Ride with GPS

796

with Osprey packs for next year.

797

And Shimano has been a huge supporter.

798

Um, and people are like, how do, what

does a Shimano sponsorship look like?

799

And it is as good as

you can imagine, like.

800

I get, I think a couple group sets a

year and get a couple sets of wheels.

801

Um, it also includes a laser

sponsorship, so I get helmets,

802

um, sunglasses and shoes.

803

Um, so it's, it's quite lovely.

804

Ellen: Yeah, sounds great.

805

You're kid out every year.

806

Marley: Yeah.

807

Ellen: Nice

808

Marley: Yeah.

809

I don't know.

810

Um,

811

I'm trying to think of,

812

Ellen: Do you also get money?

813

Marley: I do also get paid by them.

814

Yes.

815

Yes.

816

Which I am very, very grateful for.

817

Ellen: of course.

818

Which is always the right.

819

Always a good feeling too.

820

Marley: Exactly.

821

I think the other really cool thing about

being a sponsored athlete, at least in

822

my case, and I I think this is a case

for other sponsored athletes, is you're

823

often involved with product development.

824

So for I think every brand that I

work with, I have signed an NDA, um,

825

which is a non-disclosure agreement.

826

And so I'm behind the scenes on

conversations with new things

827

being developed at Osprey.

828

You know, new components from ano.

829

Um, so it's really cool you get

to take part in that and get,

830

to give genuine, honest feedback

about what works, what doesn't.

831

This is, this is how I liked it.

832

Um, and that's probably my favorite part.

833

Ellen: Yeah it is.

834

And then you get to be a voice for your

demographic, whatever slice it is that

835

you're representing at that point in

836

Marley: Exactly.

837

Yeah, you get to do, I personally,

I get to do photo shoots and that's

838

always fun because I'm like, oh God, I'm

doing a photo shoot with Taylor Ladine

839

and Amanda Nauman, who are two like.

840

Professional level cyclist,

professional gravel cyclist, and

841

it's always like, oh God, are they

gonna ride slow enough for me?

842

Because they typically want

you in like a V formation.

843

But it's so fun to get to work

with these other like super high

844

caliber athletes and know that

845

like we're on the same team.

846

We're just riding very differently.

847

Ellen: Yeah, and it's all good writing.

848

Marley: It is.

849

It is.

850

So, um.

851

Yeah, I think if folks have other

questions about being sponsored,

852

this is a topic we could clearly

talk on for a very long time.

853

It's fascinating.

854

I'm always learning new things.

855

Um, and I love that Ellen, you can

provide the marketer's perspective on it.

856

Um, so I think, yeah,

folks have other questions.

857

They should hit us up in the comments.

858

Ellen: This has been really informative

and I think it's been really eye-opening

859

and hopefully people can take it and

run with it if you've been considering

860

this and if nothing else, it's a

really fun peek behind the curtain

861

Marley: Yeah.

862

Yeah, I think people get

jealous 'cause they see my

863

life and my life is incredible.

864

I'm not going to lie.

865

Like it is phenomenal, but there's

a lot of work involved as well.

866

Ellen: Yes, I get jealous of your life.

867

I'll be real.

868

But then I also sit there.

869

It's like I'm not gonna sit

there and make a reel, am I?