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Granny Flat Arrangements with Nick Donnelly
Episode 129th July 2024 • Your Aged Care Compass • Coral Wilkinson & Michelle Brown
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A granny flat arrangement is a lifechanging and lifelong commitment. Consider the implications of undertaking such an arrangement.

Understand how the arrangement works and what you need to think about before entering into such an agreement. There are legal and financial implications for such an agreement.

Getting sound legal and financial advice before entering into this agreement will ensure all parties, particularly the older person, are protected.

 In this episode:

  • What is a granny flat arrangement?
  • Who can enter a granny flat arrangement?
  • How does it work?
  • Setting up the arrangement
  • Estate planning implications
  • Financial implications
  • Legal implications
  • Ending a granny flat agreement

Connect with Nick Donnelly

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Connect with Coral Wilkinson: 

  

More about Your Aged Care Compass podcast: 

Are you supporting an older loved one at home and ready to give up because it’s just too hard? Your Aged Care Compass is aimed at anyone who is caring for an older loved one who still lives at home and is wondering what support is available to them.


We're Coral and Michelle, the sisters behind our business, See Me Aged Care Navigators.


Coral is a registered nurse with over 30 years’ experience in both health and aged care. A former assessor with the aged care assessment team, an advocate and author, there’s not much Coral doesn’t know about Australia’s aged care system.


Michelle is a former pharmacist with over 30 years in the public health and private sectors of pharmacy. Michelle is now client care manager for our business. 


Our story started as one of supporting our parents to remain in their own home, to be as independent as possible and remain connected to their community. We reached a point however, of needing extra support and we achieved this because we know Australia’s aged care system so well, we knew what programs could assist us and our parents.


This podcast, Your Aged Care Compass, brings together not only our personal experience in supporting our own ageing parents but also our vast professional experience in supporting other families to keep their loved ones at home. 


We will help you makes sense of Australia’s aged care system, from your first contact with My Aged Care through to the different funding streams and assessment workforces, management options for home care packages and extra funding that people might be eligible for.


There's so much more. Topics relating to dementia and legal and financial considerations will be covered, as well as real life stories of where it went wrong for people and how we guided them to get it right.

 

Your Aged Care Compass will guide you clearly and compassionately to the right support at the right time for your ageing parents and loved ones. 

Transcripts

Coral:

Hi everyone.

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It's great to have you back for our

next episode of Your Aged Care Compass.

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Today, I'm talking with Nick Donnelly.

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Nick is a specialist in elder financial

advice, partnering with families to make

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decisions with them and not for them,

concerning the transition to residential

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aged care and retirement villages,

in addition to managing home care and

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other elder financial arrangements,

including granny flat arrangements.

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Navigating Australia's aged care

framework alone is incredibly difficult.

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However, working together, Nick helps

break down jargon and acronyms, aiding

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decision making and removing the

stress and anxiety associated with the

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complexity of elder financial advice.

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Nick, welcome.

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It's great to have you

join the podcast today.

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Tell us a little bit about what you do.

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Who are the people who typically

come to you seeking advice?

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Is it the older person themselves

or the adult children on

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behalf of their aging parents?

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Nick: Thanks, Carl.

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Thanks very much for, for having me.

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So, I think, you know, you described

it pretty well, a lot of , the type

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of work that We did with your intro

there, but I mean, I guess at a high

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level, elder financial advice is really

about, creating tailor made solutions,

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practical solutions, just to give older

people and their families certainty and

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peace of mind when they're just trying

to navigate, a significant lifestyle

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change, such as aged care, granny

flats, home care, retirement villages.

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That's how I describe older advice.

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I'm typically approached

as a by a family unit.

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I suppose is the best way to describe it.

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So it will generally be an elder

and potentially their partner

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and their adult Children.

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Or 1 elder and 2 or 3 adult Children.

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Or it could be 2 elders that are both

looking to maybe going to age care or a

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granified agreement and 1 adult child.

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Lots of different combinations.

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And.

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Like most things with this type of

advice, the complexity increases

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with a bigger family dynamic.

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But in nearly all cases, it's

a family unit that, that is

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approaching me for my help.

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Coral: Excellent.

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We tend to see the same and it does

add a little bit of complexity when the

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whole family unit comes, but , I think

it's a positive thing as well, because

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in teasing out those solutions, you,

can get that whole family unit on the

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same page and everybody's understanding

and working towards the same goal.

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Nick: That's right.

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Coral: So look, I was just going to say today.

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I really like this topic.

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We're talking about

granny flat arrangements.

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So, you know, what does that mean, Nick?

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Nick: A granny flat arrangement.

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At a very, very high level is a

piece of social security legislation.

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What it really is, is a recognition

of family arrangements that will help

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provide support for older people.

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Residential aged care is

extremely expensive for both the

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individual and the government.

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And.

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We are going to increasingly see, in

my opinion, more arrangements of this

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nature allowing people to stay at home to

sort of essentially lower that cost for

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both the government and the individual.

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But also from, a lifestyle perspective,

living with your family being taken care

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of I feel will have far better outcomes

than being in residential aged care.

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Don't get me wrong, there are people

that will get to a point where their

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care needs mean they need more care and

that will mean residential aged care.

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But there's this gap between

someone that needs a little

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bit of help and a lot of help.

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And often these people are ending

up in residential aged care

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where they may not need to.

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And this is where a granite

flat arrangement comes into it.

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So essentially, it's an exchange

of assets between the elder.

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And we'll call the other party, the adult

child, because typically these adult

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children, although in saying that the

granny flat legislation doesn't actually

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have tests for family relationships.

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So it could be a mom and a daughter, or it

could be a auntie and a niece or a nephew.

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So it is flexible in the sense that it

doesn't have to be that direct mother,

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father, daughter, son, sort of dynamic.

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So really you creating a multi

generational arrangement.

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With this exchange of assets the exchange

means that the adult child will receive

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assets from mum or dad, let's call

it, and in exchange the adult child

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will be required to provide care for

their mum or dad for the rest of their

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lives or until the arrangement ends.

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Coral: it's something , we are

seeing more and more of , as well.

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So, in your line of work, and we're

seeing it in ours where the motivation

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is the older person wants to stay in

their own home for as long as possible.

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And the, adult children or

the family that can Do this

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that's what they want to do.

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So they will gosh, we've had three

clients in the past two weeks , who

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had different kinds of grant.

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Well, I don't know that they've got granny

flat arrangements, but they've either

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brought mom and dad into their own home or

they've moved into mom and dad's home, or

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they've built a granny flat out the back.

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And I guess, , that's to

do with lifestyle choices.

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So look, Nick, I wanted to ask you what

is a granny flat arrangement and what are

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some typical arrangements that you see?

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Nick: Yeah, look, the

name itself is confusing.

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As we mentioned before we started,

granny flat, people's minds

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immediately think house with

separate structure in the backyard.

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And that is a granny flat.

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And that's more of real estate

definition of what a granny flat is.

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Yeah.

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In the typical ranches that we see, it

can be that it can be a structure where

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you've got a family home and a granny

flat may be built in the backyard.

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Perfect.

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That can work really, really well

because everyone is close by.

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So everyone can keep an eye on each other.

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So the care can be provided.

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But it also allows the elder to

retain their independence because

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quite often they might be moving

from their own home, which they've

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lived in for 30 40 50 years time.

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Mhm.

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Moving in to a family home together

can quite take quite an adjustment.

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So that is a good arrangement.

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It can work well, but it

doesn't have to be that.

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So it could be a case of the

adult child moves into the older

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person's home or the elder person

moves into the adult child's home.

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So that is an option as well.

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It could also be a case where

the adult child and the elder.

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Combine their finances to purchase a

home, they might build a home that's

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absolutely perfect for the flexibility

and the upside of that is that you can

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really tailor a property to what you need.

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Whereas if you're purchasing a property

elsewhere, an existing property in the

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absence of significant renovations, which

is also an option you've kind of got to

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deal with what properties are available.

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So it could be purchasing

existing home or.

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Combining finances to

construct your own home.

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, there's no real stipulation.

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Again, it comes back to the exchange

of assets for provision of care.

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That's the big part of it.

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And , living together is the best way

to make sure they're taken care of.

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Coral: That's really interesting

when I think of granny flat, I

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automatically think of standalone

building in the backyard.

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So really interesting that there are

these kind of variations on that as well.

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Nick: Yep,

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Coral: Nick , is this a formal process

like ideally, would require documentation

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and legal input, like, how does it work?

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Yeah.

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Yep.

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Nick: Now, purely from, we'll talk about

the Centrelink implications, I'm sure, in

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a little while, but the Centrelink upsides

or the benefits they don't actually

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require a legal agreement to be drafted.

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So Centrelink will accept the granny

flat arrangement and the benefits

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for both parties in the absence

of an actual formal agreement.

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So , that's part of the legislation.

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However, in saying that, I would

never ever nor would any elder, elder

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law specialist, lawyer recommend

that someone goes into a granny

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flat agreement without consent.

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Having it formal without creating a

legal arrangement because at the end

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of the day, the person who has the

most to lose is the elder because

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once they do give those assets away,

those assets no longer belong to them.

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So they have a huge amount to lose

because the adult child then really

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has, I suppose, the control and in

the past, the reason why we always

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encourage a range is because there were

situations, elder abuse, which we'll

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probably talk about in a little while

too, where mum or dad might transfer.

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a property or ex assets to an adult

child and it doesn't work out because

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the adult child gets a new partner or

they have to move overseas or interstate.

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And mum or dad can be out on their ear

having lost the vast majority of their

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assets and essentially be destitute.

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So, that alone is the main reason

to have a formal arrangement.

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So that the elder has recourse in

the event that things don't work

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because it's complex, it's involved,

there's a lot to think about, and

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there are a lot of things to go wrong.

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And people tend to have very short

memories, three, five years down the

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line when things aren't working out.

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So, having both people seeking

independent legal advice.

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Is generally what we would recommend.

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So normally the process would be,

it's a needs assessment first.

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So someone might listen to this podcast

and say, you know what, that's something

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that could work really well for us.

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Should we think about that?

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From that point, you would go to a

lawyer and get legal advice to say,

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Because a lawyer is the one that's

going to draft this agreement.

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The lawyer would sit down in a

room, ideally with all parties, so

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it might be with the elder and the

adult children, and also the adult

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children that may not be involved.

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Because there are, there could be

other siblings, and often there are.

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And this type of arrangement

has, estate planning implications

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too, which we'll talk about.

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Once the legal advice is yes, guys,

I think this is something that

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could work really well for you.

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You need to seek financial advice

to make sure this is going to work.

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So that would be approaching

someone like myself.

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So I'd work hand in hand with the lawyer

about creating the agreement, refining it.

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And then from my side, making

sure that financially it's

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going to work for both parties.

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Cause there's no point setting

up a granny flat arrangement.

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And the older person, yes, they've got

care and accommodation, but if they have

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no money to continue to live their life,

it's probably not the best outcome.

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Coral: Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Nick: If once the draft agreement is

prepared and everyone's comfortable

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, the document is executed and then

it's launched with Centrelink

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and essentially the granny fund

arrangement is then in place.

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So the obligations on both sides, the

assets transfer the agreement of care and

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you have a granny fund agreement created.

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Coral: Fantastic.

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Gosh.

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So, you just mentioned Centrelink

assessment and implications.

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Can you just expand on that

a little bit further for us,

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Nick: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

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I mean, this is one of the key parts of

a granified agreement has got to work

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both financially and non financially.

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And one of the big financial

benefits is Centrelink.

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So Centrelink has something called

deprivation rules, also known as gifting.

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Essentially, you can't have a million

dollars in your bank account, turn

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around, give you a million dollars away

to daughter, son, charity, whatever,

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then turn around to Centrelink and

say, can I have my full pension

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Coral: Sure.

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Yes.

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Nick: So that's called the deprivation.

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And essentially they're saying that

if you deprive yourself of assets to

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gain benefit by receiving a higher

pension, they do not allow that, which

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makes sense because the people that get

the pension should be the people that

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need it, not the people that have the

assets and they're trying to sort of.

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deviate away from it.

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Now, there are concessions,

very small ones.

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You can give 10, 000 per year, no more

than 30, 000 in a five year period.

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So that gives people flexibility.

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They might want to give 10, 000

to a granddaughter or grandson

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for a deposit for a house or

a car or help them with uni.

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So the government wants to help people a

little bit, but not too much to the point

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where people can take advantage of it.

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Now, with a granny flat agreement, those

deprivation rules are not eliminated

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entirely, but given that you'll be

potentially buying a house or constructing

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a house, the proceeds or the money that

the elder will give to the adult child are

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typically exempt from the Centrelink asset

testing when it comes to determining if

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you will or will not receive an pension.

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Because this is the key thing as well

saying before, if you give these assets

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away and then you lose your pension,

well, the older person has the most to

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lose and all of a sudden they've, they've

lost the most because they've lost the

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pension, they've lost their assets, they

don't have a lot of options anymore.

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So, comes back as well

to my point earlier that.

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The government will prefer the

people age in place but they know

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they can only age in place if it

makes financial sense as well.

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So, allowing these concessions for

giving higher and over and above those

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limits I mentioned before allows people

to keep their pension when they're

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creating this type of arrangement.

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Coral: Nick, what are some practical

realities of granny flat arrangements?

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Nick: Granny Flannery

Arrangement is a, is a.

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Life changing and lifelong commitment.

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So be prepared.

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that is top of the rule.

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I always said this to

people in my first meetings.

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I say, well, look, if the situation

rose could I move in with my.

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75 year old dad tomorrow and think

it's just going to go swimmingly.

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Probably not right off,

right off the outset.

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I

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Coral: Probably not.

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Nick: that's a difficult proposition,

but again, some people find

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themselves in this position where

they're balancing their decisions.

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I could go into aged care or I

could live with son or daughter.

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Now, culturally, this can be a big

thing as well, because there are certain

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cultures where the adult children are

obliged to take care of mom and dad.

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And this works really well in

this situation because they were

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going to be doing this anyway.

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Why not take advantage of

the Centrelink entitlements?

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And it also gives the ability for adult

children to get onto the property ladder

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too, which they may not be able to.

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And that's, one of the reasons I see this

being more and more and more prominent

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as properties, particularly capital

cities, become more and more out of reach.

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This version of transferring assets,

we'll call it an early inheritance

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because that's essentially what it is

really can help the adult child as well.

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So.

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That's the first thing that I'll

say to my clients, and I also need

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to always reiterate and remember

that I'm acting on behalf of the

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elder, not the adult child, because

the elder is my client, and they're

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the ones that has the most to lose.

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Because elder abuse , is absolutely rife.

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Unfortunately there's this kind of sense

of entitlement, I think, in certain adult

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children that inheritance is theirs now.

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Not later.

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See, we have to really

be conscious of that.

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And a lot of that comes down

to experience in meetings.

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If you're sitting there in a meeting

and the adult child is doing all the

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talking and mum or dad sitting quietly

in the corner, not saying anything,

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they're the situations that concern me.

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And the lawyer will have

had this meeting as well.

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So we'll talk together and

say, how was your interactions?

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What did you think of X, Y, Z?

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So that's a really

important consideration.

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Things like, can the elder

ask for the assets back?

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Well, not really.

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Because you've assigned

those to your adult child.

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There's that's something

to think about as well.

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Once these are gone, they're gone.

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Can the adult child ask the elder

to move out if it's not working?

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Well, Not necessarily.

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It will say in the agreement, the

standard of care and the standard of

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accommodation that is legally required.

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So, you want mum or dad to move

out because you're moving into

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state, they must come with you.

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This is the big thing as well, that people

when they, they may not think that far

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ahead, they think great, getting myself

on the property ladder, but if their

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job takes them to Adelaide or Perth or

something like that, On a regular basis

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or even permanently, you got to think

about mom and dad because your obligations

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don't stop just because of that.

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You got to manage your be

conscious of lifestyle changes.

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Now, some lifestyle changes.

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We can't anticipate family

dynamic is a big consideration.

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What if, I'm single, mum or dad comes

and lives with me, but then I get a

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partner in six or twelve months time.

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Partner doesn't like mum or dad too much.

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Encroaching on our life, I don't

really like this arrangement.

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they're the kinds of challenges

that can make these agreements

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difficult to continue.

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But if you say to people at the start,

these specific examples, how will

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you deal with this, is this possible?

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Getting all these things out

on the table helps clients

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make more informed decisions.

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Coral: I love that, Nick.

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I think as you've said a couple of

times, it's the older person who's at

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risk here and it's a big risk, isn't it?

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And we all set out with the best of

intentions of having mum or dad or

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both move in with this or us move

in, but We don't tend to look two,

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three, five years down the track and

consider all those variables that

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might make that situation, challenging.

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So

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Nick: Yep.

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Coral: I think these conversations

that you're having with people, , it's

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vital , to help them, make the right

decision and certainly be aware.

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That things might change a little bit

in another year or two or later, and you

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need to be thinking about that now as

you're entering into this arrangement

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and not trying to backtrack and, deal

with it when it's become really.

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Challenging and uncomfortable at home.

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Nick: That's right.

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, my job quite often , is to hope for

the best, but plan for the worst.

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Coral: Yeah,

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Nick: And when you say to people,

look, this is what could happen and

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, this is where it will leave things.

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It makes people, not second

guess or reconsider, but it's

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just being conscious of it.

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because it can be very easy to

mom or dad says, great, I don't

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have to go to a nursing home.

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Final daughter is going

to take care of me.

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Fantastic.

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Adult child goes fantastic.

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I can now buy a house

for my family to live in.

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This is great.

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So when those two things can often

cloud or paper over what could go wrong.

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Because these are big decisions.

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These are for both sides.

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I was saying before, there's

a life changing and lifelong

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decisions and absolutely they are.

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And it might sound like I'm being

pessimistic about it, but I'm certainly

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not, because it could be fantastic,

particularly from an intergenerational

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point of view, because you can have

three generations living together which

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is great because you could have elder,

adult child, and then son or daughter.

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So you can have three

generations together.

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So it can work really, really well.

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It's just, everyone has to be conscious

of you don't know what you don't know.

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Um,

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so estate planning is something

that people need to be

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really conscious of as well.

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I mentioned extended

families and complexity too.

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So let's say hypothetically, you've

got, the older mom or dad, and

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you've got three adult children.

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:

One of those children is going to

enter into the granny flat agreement.

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:

Remembering that once those assets are

transferred to that one adult child, they

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:

are their assets then and will no longer

form part of the elder's estate when

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:

they eventually pass the same before.

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:

And you were saying it as well as better

to have everyone in the room because

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:

People could find that, okay, well, if

son A is getting 500, 000 now and there's

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:

going to be nothing left in the estate,

that could lead, in the absence of a full

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:

transparency across the whole family,

that could lead to some complexity when

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:

the estate is finally being distributed

because there could be nothing in there.

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:

So, it acts as an early inheritance.

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:

But by default, it actually acts

as a disinheritance tool as well.

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:

That's what people need to be aware of.

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:

Now, for the older person,

they're going to be dead, so it

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:

might not bother them too much.

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:

But again, the last thing you'd ever

want is, hundreds of thousands of

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:

dollars being, chewed up in legal fees.

371

:

for something that

could have been avoided.

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:

There's ways to mitigate this.

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:

But again, , people don't like those

types of nasty surprises as well.

374

:

So estate planning is a really important

consideration and the lawyer that creates

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:

the agreement will almost inevitably

talk about estate planning as part of it.

376

:

So it's something that I'd discuss

too, but a very important aspect.

377

:

Coral: yeah, . I can imagine

those kind of conversations around

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:

this particular point and siblings

who thought they were getting an

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:

inheritance and now they're not.

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:

Nick: Surprise.

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:

Coral: yeah.

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:

Yeah.

383

:

how would you end a

granny flat arrangement?

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:

Right.

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:

Nick: the legal agreement will

actually go through the specific

386

:

factors that detail how it can end.

387

:

But the primary ones are

death on either side.

388

:

Aged care is a big one because obviously

going to a granny flat agreement

389

:

means you have increasing care needs.

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:

And They're going to age care made to the

granny flat agreement will end because

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:

you no longer have to provide care for the

older because I'll be taking care of that.

392

:

This is a really, really big one.

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:

When we talk about Centrelink.

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:

If you create a granny flat agreement

tomorrow, hypothetically and then the

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:

older goes into age care anytime within

those first five years, Centrelink can

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:

look back and say, Hey, You potentially

could have reasonably foreseen the granny

397

:

flat agreement was going to end because

the care needs were at a point where

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:

aged care would be required in five

years and they can actually claw back

399

:

what benefits you may have received,

but in terms of keeping your pension.

400

:

So that's, that's a

really, really big one.

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:

And people need to be aware of that.

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:

My approach is.

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:

Before you sign this agreement, you go to

a doctor and you say, look, can you please

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:

put down in writing that there's nothing.

405

:

In front of you as far as my health is

concerned, that would indicate I need

406

:

age care in the next five years because

that evidence that's what you're going

407

:

to give to Centrelink if they start

pushing back if you try and do that

408

:

three or four years later, it's too late.

409

:

So you need people need to be very aware

of this because it essentially it's

410

:

to avoid people taking advantage of.

411

:

Hypothetically, I'm an adult child.

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:

I know mom's going to

aged care in six months.

413

:

Let's give all your money.

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:

You'll keep your pension.

415

:

Well, I've got my money.

416

:

Now you're in aged care.

417

:

I don't really care.

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:

It's to avoid that type

of thing happening.

419

:

And the cost of aged care is

something that I talk about

420

:

as well with all my clients.

421

:

And we build into this agreement because

, if they've given away all their assets,

422

:

how are they going to pay for aged care?

423

:

So we make sure that in conjunction

talking with our lawyer who is working on

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:

it, we always make sure there's a clause

in there that says in the event that

425

:

age care is required at any point, you

adult child will fund all of those costs.

426

:

Coral: Yes.

427

:

Nick: And it sort of can catch

people a little bit off guard because

428

:

they think, Oh, well, that means I

might have to re mortgage my house.

429

:

Absolutely.

430

:

It might mean you need to do that.

431

:

But that is the nature of , this

arrangement that you need to be

432

:

aware because we're just trying

to plan what might happen.

433

:

Cause you don't want nasty

surprises down the line.

434

:

Well, mum's in aged care.

435

:

If that isn't in the contract.

436

:

adult child doesn't necessarily

have to cover those costs.

437

:

So there's also comes back to who's

the client who has the most to lose.

438

:

It's the elder.

439

:

Yeah.

440

:

Coral: That was a great discussion.

441

:

I was completely unaware of that.

442

:

Nick: It's a big

443

:

Coral: love talking to you,

Nick, because I always learn

444

:

something every time we chat.

445

:

Nick: Great.

446

:

Coral: And I know our

listeners will as well.

447

:

, Nick: the other way can answer it.

448

:

I got sidetracked about aged

care, but you can mutually

449

:

end the agreement as well.

450

:

If both parties want to go.

451

:

And generally the agreement will have an

independent arbiter that will decide that.

452

:

If we end this now, what's

it going to look like?

453

:

Who walks away with what?

454

:

So the agreements always have

an independent person there.

455

:

So it can be a mutual agreement.

456

:

But you can't walk away from

it without dealing with the

457

:

implications that it would clearly

state you've received these assets.

458

:

You can't walk away.

459

:

Otherwise, you got to give them back.

460

:

Coral: I am hearing very loudly and

very clearly that it is essential

461

:

to get professional advice before

you decide that you're going to move

462

:

mum and dad in with you or move in

with them or build a granny flat.

463

:

Like, It's a lot more complex than just

making that decision with the best of

464

:

intentions because it does have all these

unseen ramifications that might pop up,

465

:

12 months or whenever down the track.

466

:

And if you're not aware of this, , what

we've just discussed and moving

467

:

into residential aged care, big

implications potentially for a family

468

:

who have gone into this without an

awareness of what it really means.

469

:

Nick: Yeah, absolutely.

470

:

That's right.

471

:

And it's about, as I said, I mean, I sound

like a broken record, but you know, hoping

472

:

for the best and planning for the worst

is, how you approach it because you're,

473

:

as I said, financial and non financial

considerations, both equally important.

474

:

Coral: Yeah.

475

:

Yeah.

476

:

Nick.

477

:

I always like to hear about real stories.

478

:

So , are you able to tell us about someone

who built a granny flat or entered into

479

:

this kind of arrangement to support their

elderly parents and because they didn't

480

:

understand, that there were these things

they needed to consider what went wrong.

481

:

Nick: I think, in touch wood, I haven't

had many that have gone wrong, and I

482

:

think that probably comes down to a lot

of the things we've spoken about today.

483

:

If you carved all of that out and

said, go and see a lawyer, I'll

484

:

write some financial advice for you,

we sign away and off you go, and we

485

:

haven't discussed all of these things,

that's when I think families could

486

:

get themselves into a little bit of

trouble because they're not aware of it.

487

:

So I think probably that's the key.

488

:

You know, The preparedness of the

advisor, the preparedness of the

489

:

lawyer to run people through this has

probably led to mostly good results.

490

:

The one that I have had is that I had

an individual where they've moved in

491

:

together into the adult child's house.

492

:

And mom has given a reasonable

amount of money to that 250, 000.

493

:

To the daughter who she's put on to her

mortgage now mom still had some money

494

:

left over and she decided that she wanted

to give more money to her daughter to

495

:

help eliminate her mortgage entirely.

496

:

I said, look, that's

that's perfectly fine.

497

:

You can do that, but you need to be

aware that you are now you will now

498

:

have no assets whatsoever and because.

499

:

There are gifting limits.

500

:

You can't absolutely give absolutely

everything away and it's a complex

501

:

way that Centrelink calculate.

502

:

I'm not going to go into it today.

503

:

But I sort of warned her at the time.

504

:

I said, look, you're not going

to be able to keep the pension.

505

:

I'm happy that your daughter's

not going to have a mortgage.

506

:

But, in a couple of years time,

you won't have many assets left.

507

:

You had a little bit of cash

to deposit, things like that.

508

:

But since we're exhausted And

she has, she approached me and

509

:

was really, really concerned.

510

:

It was that she's not going

to have a pension because

511

:

she's running out of money.

512

:

And I said, look, this is you.

513

:

We were trying to trying

to tick off two goals here.

514

:

You having enough money for

the rest of your life and your

515

:

daughter not having a mortgage.

516

:

We got the second goal ticked,

but like many elders, they look

517

:

after their children more than

they look after themselves.

518

:

So that was the situation where, I,

again, I did sort of make it clear that

519

:

this is where we might find ourselves.

520

:

But again, In someone's

own mind, this is the goal.

521

:

That's what they're focusing.

522

:

They may not even think of all

those implications, even if you

523

:

explain it really clearly to them.

524

:

And so it wasn't that that is a, it's,

it's not a, it's not a disappointing

525

:

outcome because we can resolve it.

526

:

The daughter can give

some of the money back.

527

:

That's not a problem.

528

:

The door is going to take care of

her regardless, but it was just

529

:

the fact that, there are still

limits on what you can give.

530

:

You can't just give absolutely

everything away in a lot of situations.

531

:

Yeah.

532

:

Coral: Nick, fantastic

speaking with you today.

533

:

, Nick's contact details are

included in the show notes.

534

:

So if you want to follow

up , you certainly can.

535

:

, you mentioned elder abuse a couple

of times during our discussion today.

536

:

And we're going to be inviting you back

in a couple of weeks , we're bringing in

537

:

a lawyer who works in that space as well.

538

:

So, listeners, we'll have that coming up

in the next two to three weeks, hopefully.

539

:

But for today, thank you for tuning

in and Nick, thank you for joining us.

540

:

Nick: You're more than welcome.

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