Ninety years after its founding, many people have heard of A.A., but not everyone understands how it works. In this episode, we hear how non-alcoholic professionals, A.A. members and GSO Staff help open the doors to recovery by dispelling misinformation about A.A.

- The views and opinions expressed

during this podcast are

those of our guests.

No one person speaks for A.A. as a whole.

- There's a lot said about

Alcoholics Anonymous out there.

Some of it is accurate,

some of it is outdated,

and some of it simply isn't true.

In this episode, we're exploring

how Alcoholics Anonymous,

through service, communication,

and cooperation, helps

dispel misinformation

by clearly sharing what

A.A. is and what A.A. is not.

First impressions of A.A. don't

usually come from meetings.

They come from conversations,

websites, referrals,

and what people think A.A.

is can either open the door

to recovery or quietly close it

before someone ever walks through.

But when misinformation is

replaced with clarity, the hand

of A.A. becomes more visible

and more accessible to

those who need it most.

My name is Nathan and I'm an

alcoholic. Welcome to GSO.

For our first segment, we are

going to change perspectives.

The following recording comes

directly from the Southwest

Regional Forum held in Albuquerque,

New Mexico in November 2025.

It's a talk on the subject of Cooperation

with the Professional Community

given by Veronica Ramirez.

- It's a beautiful moment. Thank you so

much.

- A Class A General Service Board trustee.

Class A means that Veronica

is a non-alcoholic.

- My friendship with A.A. started in 2015,

and A.A. never ceases to amaze me.

- As a non-alcoholic friend of A.A.,

Class A trustees are available

to appear in public on behalf

of Alcoholics Anonymous,

and are primarily selected

for their professional

experience, expertise,

and familiarity with A.A.,

providing a rich source

of wisdom and perspective.

Here's Veronica talking

about her professional

work in the judicial system.

- Right. So I started as a field officer,

boots on the ground, going out

to see people doing a lot of

pre-release planning inside

of the prison system, so

as probation officers.

And we would try to pre-

prepare them as much

as we could for release.

There was nothing to me better

than actually the hands

on work with the imprisoned

and their families, because we

all know that when people go

to prison, a lot is involved in that.

So it's not just the inmate,

but the families as well.

- Just like any service

position in A.A., trustees rotate.

There are seven class

As at any given time,

and they can serve up to two

consecutive, three-year terms.

It's a big commitment.

So what would inspire a

non-alcoholic to devote so much time

and energy to a program of recovery

of which they do not belong?

- So I remember when I worked

for the parole officer, people

that had been r- been released

from Texas prisons were

reporting to me and

talking to me about A.A.

I mean, we had heard about

A.A. and we knew about A.A.,

but we didn't really

know about A.A., right?

So it was just like all of

this talk about anonymity

and I was like, "What

is, what even is that?"

Like, unless you all go

and tell us, we don't know.

And so those things

where I looked around

and I thought, why is this person changing

and this person is not?

Why is it that this group

continues to go back

and this group is seeing

some positive changes?

And what I could point to

was Alcoholics Anonymous.

When I started really getting involved

and really learning about

it, it was eye-opening.

As a probation officer in the state system

and federal system for 21 years,

I have not seen anything be

as effective as A.A.

A.A. has a beautiful way

of being gentle, warm,

loving, and then I started to

realize, no wonder this works.

No wonder this works.

I saw a lot of positive change,

but we don't know those things

unless we hear it from all of you.

- And this is where we hear the insight

and perspective that a

non-alcoholic professional can bring

to carrying the message of A.A. to those

that may not be as familiar.

- I think learning the

important words to use,

because when you talk to

professionals, you have

to talk their lingo, right?

If anybody told me positive

outcomes, lower recidivism,

reentry, cost containment,

low budget, like,

that's what we want.

If you use words like, "Free." What? Okay.

I definitely wanna hear about that, right?

The other thing that I

wanna talk about is the

professionals themselves.

So as a federal probation officer,

we're considered law enforcement,

so we're hazardous duty,

but it is a field where I think a lot

of professionals probably

suffer from alcoholism.

And so don't forget that

because I think it's really important.

And I think in this

area there's still a lot

of negative connotations

associated with that.

Go into an office, into

a probation office,

into a medical facility,

into a child protective service office.

Don't forget about the

juveniles please - into a juvenile

probation office, into the prison system

and say, "This is who I am.

May I please schedule a five,

10-minute meeting with the

warden, with your chief,

with the chief judge?" Do it.

And if, and if they don't

give you the time, just

be persistent, right?

Or "If the chief doesn't have time for me,

can I just leave this with you?"

And it's The Grapevine

with maybe your little contact number.

And I say that because

we do get really busy.

Like, A.A. has so much to

offer people that are busy.

The podcasts are great.

I mean, I love them.

I think that would be

a very effective tool.

Somebody may not, really

may not be interested

in an open A.A. meeting.

They may not want to yet,

but there's so many other things, right?

And so I, I would also

think about the podcast

and how you can use that if you're dealing

with professionals that are busy.

So I'm here to tell you again

the work that you're doing.

It's incredible. It's

amazing. Keep doing it.

There's such a need.

You're saving lives and

that's incredible work.

- The 12th step of

Alcoholics Anonymous states,

"Having had a spiritual

awakening as a result

of these steps, we tried to

carry this message to alcoholics

and to practice these principles

in all our affairs." While

what Veronica said is true,

there is a need for this work

and it is saving lives,

ensuring sobriety for each

member comes from practicing the

12th step, carrying the message of A.A.

to those that may need it.

You know, our primary purpose.

- In this podcast, we respect

the anonymity of A.A. members.

Last names are shared only

for those who are not in A.A.

- There are lots of different

options today to get sober,

and Alcoholics Anonymous is

not trying to convince anyone

that A.A. is the only way.

We've just found a way that works for us,

and we share that with others.

When searching online, it may

be unclear if you found an A.A.

resource or something else.

I had a quick convo with Kelley C.,

the staff member on the Public

Information desk, on how

to confirm if what you

found online is actually

Alcoholics Anonymous. Hey, Kelley.

- Hey, Nathan.

- If you're looking specifically

for Alcoholics Anonymous,

what are some tips for

identifying A.A. information online?

- That's a great question.

Like you said, there's a

lot of resources out there,

and A.A.'s not trying to convince anyone

that A.A. is the only way to stay sober.

We just found a way that works for us,

and we try to share with others.

So if you're looking

specifically for A.A.,

there's some things to

look out for online.

And the first one is checking

that website address.

The official Alcoholics

Anonymous World Services website

is www.aa.org.

- Okay, great. So are there any red flags

that someone might find online

that would tell you this is not

officially Alcoholics Anonymous?

- Totally. So if a website

describes paid memberships,

exclusive access,

or special recovery

services presented as A.A.,

it may not be affiliated with A.A.,

and it's good to double check that.

- Good to know. Great. You know,

it's interesting talking

about anonymity and online

because we're putting information

about ourselves out there,

but we, in Alcoholics Anonymous,

take anonymity very seriously.

Would we ever ask

for personal information

from somebody online?

- Great question. So if you're

not buying something on our

online bookstore where

you provide those details,

you wouldn't need

to provide any personal details

like full name, address,

or any financial information

to attend A.A. meetings.

If a site asks for personal

or financial information to

take part in A.A. activities,

it's really best to pause

and seek confirmation from an A.A. source.

- And what if we have more questions?

- Yeah. If you have any questions

on whether an A.A. resource

is legitimate, feel free

to contact us at publicinfo@aa.org.

- Awesome. Thanks, Kelley.

- Of course. Thank you.

- To find a meeting near you

or a meeting online,

download the Meeting Guide

app on your mobile device.

- Just like the Public

Information resources

that Kelley was talking about,

the General Service Office

supports the efforts

of dispelling misinformation

about A.A. in a number of ways,

like providing reliable

literature, Cooperation

with the Professional Community,

and guidance that helps groups

stay unified in message while

remaining autonomous in action.

Speaking of autonomy, our next

segment explores one area's

actions in their work

toward dispelling this

information about A.A.

We're gonna hear a couple

of abbreviations in our

conversations, so just to review,

CPC stands for Cooperation

with the Professional Community,

and DCM stands

for the service position

District Committee Member.

Dan, thank you so much

for joining us today.

- It's great to be here,

and I'm, I'm grateful

for getting the chance

to share a little bit

about what our area does.

- You are the Area 59 Eastern

Pennsylvania delegate.

- Correct. - And your annual

Eastern Pennsylvania General

Service Assembly, you

invite one non-alcoholic

professional to observe and

participate. - Yes.

- Can you tell us a bit about the value

of non-alcoholic professionals

being invited to the assembly

and, and where that tradition came about?

- Well, I think the value

is, you know, a lot of people

think they know something about A.A.,

and even if they're in

a professional setting,

unless they know somebody

who is an A.A. member,

there's probably a lot of misconceptions.

And so it really gives

them a chance not just

to dispel some misconceptions,

but to see that there is

a lot that happens in A.A.

besides people just going to meetings.

And I think it gives them a

great opportunity to see just

how joyful our gatherings can be,

and give them a greater sense, too,

of all the different kind of work

that happens at a broader

level in general service

besides just meetings.

Without exception, the people

who have come always say that

they gained such a new

understanding compared to

what they thought before.

Especially this year's

observer, he had a really,

really great time, you know?

- Well, let's talk about

that. This year's observer was

a judge, is that right?

- Yes. The judge, he

really got to see a lot

of different things from the

different committee workshops.

This year, I think we had

some really great speakers.

Well, so I think that was

also great to give the judge,

you know, more of a

sense of the type of work

that happens in A.A.

Also, one of the things we

do every year is we have a

a lunch with the guest observer.

It's pretty informal.

I think it sort of broadened

his sense of, you know,

what A.A. can be and how

big our reach really is.

It went really well. I mean,

I, I was really pleased

and I think everyone

had a really great time.

- That's really great to

hear. The professionals

that are invited

and they participate, it seems

like there's an opportunity

for a lot of misconceptions to

be dispelled as they listen,

observe, and get to meet other

members and other officers.

- I saw on the notes from our archivist

that there's been some interesting

reactions that people have had.

One, we had a law

enforcement officer one year

who broke down while

speaking at the podium.

Another interesting comment we

got, a woman went to the mic

and said, "When I arrived on Friday,

I was confident I knew all about A.A.

10 minutes later, my jaw was on the floor,

and I'd realized I knew next

to nothing about A.A." - Wow.

- So that's, you know,

pretty interesting to hear.

- It really is. You spoke

about your archivist.

I know you did a little bit of research.

Did you get to learn about

how long this tradition's

been going on and

really... - Yeah.

Yeah. It's ki- it's ... Yeah,

it's been going on a long time.

Yeah, basically from 1976 on.

You know, we've had anyone

from parole agents, ministers,

police officers, doctors

and nurses, high school

teachers, magistrates, judges,

detox managers, penitentiary management,

human resource managers.

And in 1988, we had a

radio talk show host.

- Wow. - I wasn't yet in

the program at that point,

so I missed that one.

- I would've liked to have been there too.

As Area Delegate, is it your

responsibility to choose

and invite who would come and observe?

- Actually, how our process

works is the chairperson sends

out a boilerplate letter

that gives a little bit

of background about, you know,

who the guest observer is,

you know, what qualifications to look for.

And we ask DCMs to submit a candidate.

And then each DCM will

be given two minutes

to give a little talk about

who their guest observer is,

and then we will pick a nominee.

- Wonderful. I'm inclined

to ask if there's a

criteria you're looking for,

but it seems like

there's such a wide swath

of professionals out there

that would benefit from this, or- Yeah.

... or is there a specific

thing that you're looking for?

- Well, what we say is

we look for somebody

who doesn't have a lot of

familiarity with our fellowship

because you're gonna get the

most value out of someone

who knows little, you

know, they'll learn a lot.

Someone who has opportunity

to come in contact with people

who are in A.A. or alcoholics

and someone who, you know,

in a professional setting,

doctors, judges, pastors,

social workers, and so on.

- You spoke so well about the value

of having these guest observers come.

It seems like there's a real

need to be able to have more,

not just in your area,

but maybe this could be paralleled in,

in other areas as well.

- I was just gonna say

that I was surprised

that you all thought this

was such an amazing thing

because I, I kinda thought, Oh, well,

why wouldn't you do this?

It just seems like one of those things

that seems like such a natural thing

that every area would wanna do it.

- Well, maybe they'll hear

this and get inspired.

- I think that would be

a great, a great outcome.

You know, the only thing that

can happen by exposing people

to events like, you know, conventions

or assemblies is, you know,

it's only gonna increase awareness and,

and be something positive.

So I w- I would think

there's like zero downside.

Well, actually, actually, I,

I can remember one time sorry,

there was one year where we

actually withdrew a candidate at

the last minute because someone worked

with the guest observer professionally.

You know, they, they just

didn't want that person to know

that they were an Alcoholics Anonymous.

- They wanted to protect

their anonymity. That makes

sense.

- Yeah. But other than that one

case, we've never had anyone,

like, be uncomfortable coming.

- Dan, did you have any

misconceptions about A.A. when you

first came into the program? I

- Think like a lot of people, it was

the last thing I wanted to do.

Maybe the thing is, is I'm not

sure exactly what I expected,

but it was completely different.

I don't remember much

about my first meeting,

but I do remember that I felt

like I was in the right place.

And I would say, like, probably

though the biggest change

as far as how I viewed A.A.

was when I actually got into

general service because, you

know, I think it's a shame that

so many people don't know

anything about how we work.

People love to say how A.A. saved my life,

and yet they don't wanna

learn how we make decisions,

you know which, which I think is crazy

because, you know, for

people who get service,

it's like it just open- it

makes A.A. so much bigger,

you know, which, I mean,

I, I think that's been the,

the biggest thing for me

is just how huge A.A. is

and how much power there is

when alcoholics get together.

- Along with being Area

Delegate, you are the chair

of the CPC committee at the

General Service Conference.

How has your experience

with this tradition at

your assembly affect your

commitment or, or vice versa?

As a chair, how has it

affected the work you

do at your assembly?

- Yeah. I mean, I think that

this whole thing has really

been very typical in A.A.,

a learning experience

because I really knew next

to nothing at all about

CPC other than, you know,

I knew professionals, but

that that was really it.

And so I think the thing

that's amazed me the most is

just the level of commitment

that some professionals

have to our fellowship.

It's really, really inspiring.

Particularly at the international,

I went to one of the, one

of the CPC panels,

and it was somebody who

basically, their entire life,

they devoted to A.A. almost

more than an alcoholic,

which was really incredible.

So I think that, you know,

has really just given me a

much deeper appreciation for

how many opportunities

we have to reach people

through professionals in

different ways, you know,

just things that I never even thought of.

You know, so I think that's

certainly given me a much

greater appreciation of

how us having a guest observer

directly ties into that

because, you know, I think somebody

who actually learns

more about what A.A. is,

they're gonna be more

likely to recommend us.

- So along with CPC,

along with Cooperation

with the Professional Community, Treatment

and Corrections are two

other service committees

that have lots of opportunity

to dispel misinformation in A.A.

Additionally, many areas

have what is called a

Bridging the Gap program.

Can you talk a bit about how those service

efforts connect? - I think

it's, it's an interesting question

because I think there's like

a lot of overlap in general

if you think about it between a lot

of our different service

committees, you know, and they,

and they all tie into each

other one way or another.

Our area does have a really

strong Bridging the Gap program

that's kinda grew up since

I've been in service.

- Maybe your Bridging the Gap coordinator

could tell us more about

it. What's their name?

- Jim L. - You think Jim would

be willing to talk to us?

- Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. He would.

He l- he loves talking

about Bridging the Gap.

- Hey, Jim, how are you, man?

- How you doing today?

- Dan B. was just telling us

that you are the Bridging

the Gap coordinator

for Area 59 Southeast Pennsylvania.

- Yeah. For about the last four

years, I've been doing it now.

- I know that every area in A.A. does

Bridging the Gap differently.

What does Bridging the

Gap look like for Area 59?

- Area 59, for a number

of years, their Treatment

and their Corrections

handle Bridging the Gap, but

because of the spirit of

rotation, every time it got up

and got moving, it kind

of faulted out when everybody swapped out.

- Mm. - So Area 59, about eight

years ago, our past delegate,

Ken D., decided that he wanted

to have a permanent position

to keep some kind of continuity

between the transitions.

So in Area 59, Treatment

and Corrections is who I answer to,

but I am kind of a standalone with that.

What that does is allows me

to keep databases up to date,

keep connections up to date,

and when all the different intergroups

and districts all rotate in

and out, it allows me to

track down the next person

and keep, keep all the lines

of communications open.

- What kind of

misconceptions do you notice

with new A.A. members

coming from treatment?

- I think a lot of times,

because of all different

programs you have,

you have temporary sponsorship,

you have 12 step calls,

you have ride share,

different intergroups

have different things.

They tend to mix all that up.

Bridging the Gap is literally

to get you to a meeting,

get you through your first

week of meetings, and,

and answer all those oddball

questions that make no sense

to somebody first coming into A.A.-

- So what are some of

those oddball questions?

- What are those banners

hanging on the wall

with the 12 rules?

You know, what's a home

group? What's a sponsor?

You know, I say it all the time

when I do my workshops that

you hear two types of stories in A.A.

You hear the person that pulled

up in the parking lot was

scared to death, left,

and it took them five

years to get back to A.A.

And then you hear the other end of it

where they pull up in the

parking lot, they're scared

to death, they're going to leave,

and somebody knocked on a window

and said, "Hey, you looking

for an A.A. meeting?" And I

haven't left since.

Then you know you got them

when they start asking you

questions like, "What

about this meeting?" Or,

or "when's that person speaking

at the ..." They start asking

questions rather than, "What

is all this stuff?" They start

asking specifics like,

"Where is the noon meeting

at such and such church?

Where is the church?" You know?

That's when you know

they're kind of tied in.

- Do you find a difference in reactions

when we're talking about bridging the gap

specifically for treatment?

What about corrections?

Are there different kinds of

misconceptions, different kinds

of approaches and dispelling

those misconceptions when

working with someone that's coming out

of a correctional facility?

- There is. I think the ones

coming in out of corrections.

Remember, coming out of

treatment, you just had 30 days

or 20 days of, of

everybody hugging everybody

and everybody pumping everybody up

and everybody encouraging everybody.

So they kind of come to A.A. expecting it

to be just like their counseling group,

and it's kind of like a little step down.

But they're comfortable.

Coming out of corrections,

when a lot of people

are, are coming up to you

and being friendly, your

first instinct you have

to do in time behind bars is,

"What do you want from me?"

- Yeah, defensive.

- And I, I, I pick it

up sometimes in a room.

They sit in the back corner,

back to the wall, arms cross.

They, they really, they're

not sure what this is,

but it sure isn't what

they just came from.

And then I explain to them,

"Hey, I know on the inside,

somebody's nice to you, they

want something." It's kind

of the same out here, I said, "But

what you don't understand

is we need you here.

You won't understand this

for about six months,

but you're important to us.

We don't want anything from you other than

to keep coming back."

And then I tell them, So

that six months, a year from now,

when somebody else comes out

of a state correctional

facility and you walk in

and see them sitting in the corner,

you do the same thing I just did to you,

and that's why we need you.

- Yeah, yeah. Wow.

What kind of misconceptions

did you have about Alcoholics

Anonymous when you first

got into the rooms?

- Well, the obvious one is

I thought you were gonna

teach me how to drink.

I thought you were gonna

teach me how to drink

like a gentleman, you know?

And that, that went right

out the window when I met

my first sponsor.

Mm. I wanted to stop hurting.

I wanted to stop getting in trouble.

I wanted to stop hurting those around me,

but I didn't know what to do.

I think my misconceptions

were, as everybody says, a guy

with the brown bag under

the bridge, you know,

hasn't showered in six months.

What I learned quickly was that's not

what A.A. was, you know?

There was lawyers, doctors, priests, nuns.

We had two nuns back in the 80s that were

they were beloved by people in A.A.

- Yeah. - You know,

and they, you didn't know they were nuns

until you ran into them somewhere else,

like at the ACME or something.

So that kind of changed my

conception of what A.A. was.

- You dispell these

misconceptions effectively,

and you're speaking a lot

about that connective tissue

between individuals and fellowship.

What about resources beyond

people, flesh and blood?

What kind of literature

do you find most helpful?

- GSO literature, like the

pamphlets for volunteers

or requests.

I do use the Bridging the Gap pamphlet.

Use a lot of the what A.A. is and isn't.

So we, we kind of use

whatever it takes to get,

get ahold of somebody.

The key is you wanting to get sober.

If you do, A.A.'s there and,

and we'll find a way to help you do it.

- Thank you, Jim.

- Thank you.

- More information on all the

services you just heard about

can be found at aa.org.

For specific inquiries about Cooperation

with the rofessional Community,

you can email cpc@aa.org,

and for Corrections, contact

corrections@aa.org.

For Bridging the Gap and

Treatment, contact tf@aa.org.

That's T as in treatment

and F as in facilities, tf@aa.org.

A.A. members, how does your area

connect with professionals?

We'd love to hear your experience.

Please email nominating@aa.org.

And if you haven't already,

subscribe to this podcast

so you can keep coming back.

- Thank you for listening

to Our Primary Purpose,

a podcast produced by the

General Service Office on behalf

of the Fellowship of

Alcoholics Anonymous in the US

and Canada.