Shownotes
We tackle a myriad of topics, starting with the complexities of constitutional rights and the ongoing debate around judicial interpretations versus constitutional amendments, using Roe v. Wade as a key example.
We shift gears to discuss Ohio's significant role in national politics, speculating on JD Vance's political future and the implications of Donald Trump's recent legal battles.
We also explore various political figures and their potential roles in future administrations, including a humorous mention of Norm's joke about progressive women avoiding relationships with conservative men.
We have critiques of political bias in education, the repercussions of political statements by school principals, and the broader challenges facing educators today.
From reflections on the Articles of Confederation to the potential appointment of disruptive figures like Matt Gaetz, this episode promises a thorough analysis of current events.
We also discuss the anticipated task force by Elon Musk and Vivek Ramaswamy aimed at addressing inefficiencies in the government.
So, get ready for a robust discussion as we navigate the intricate landscape of politics and governance—only here on Common Sense Ohio.
Common Sense Moments
00:00 Initial U.S. government lacked central power, authority.
07:59 Trump's federal cases are dissolving, predictions correct.
14:19 Federal crimes pardon doesn't affect state charges.
16:49 Prosecuted politically, causing unnecessary complications.
22:08 Teachers publicly expressing frustrations about societal issues.
27:13 Medical training should focus on hard sciences.
34:24 Respectful of military; critical of incompetent officers.
40:45 Dodge people issue discussed across media spectrum.
42:56 Political solutions risk corruption and future failures.
50:18 Disruptor criticized for unnecessary political turmoil.
52:47 President fills vacancies during Senate recess.
01:01:03 Trump plans to replace opposition with allies.
01:04:39 Advocating celibacy; blue wristbands signify support.
Recorded at the 511 Studios, in the Brewery District in downtown Columbus, OH.
info@commonsenseohioshow.com
Stephen Palmer is the Managing Partner for the law firm, Palmer Legal Defense. He has specialized almost exclusively in criminal defense for over 26 years. Steve is also a partner in Criminal Defense Consultants, a firm focused wholly on helping criminal defense attorneys design winning strategies for their clients.
Norm Murdock is an automobile racing driver and owner of a high-performance and restoration car parts company. He earned undergraduate degrees in literature and journalism and graduated with a Juris Doctor from the University of Cincinnati College of Law in 1985. He worked in the IT industry for two years before launching a career in government relations in Columbus, Ohio. Norm has assisted clients in the Transportation, Education, Healthcare, and Public Infrastructure sectors.
Brett Johnson is an award-winning podcast consultant and small business owner for nearly 10 years, leaving a long career in radio. He is passionate about helping small businesses tell their story through podcasts, and he believes podcasting is a great opportunity for different voices to speak and be heard.
https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nd/4.0/
Transcripts
Alright. Alright. Here we are live Common Sense Ohio. Nothing better than a little Common Sense coming at you live from Studio C Channel 511 here in Columbus, Ohio. We are Common Sense Ohio show, and you can, of course, check us out where? Commonsenseohioshow.com. It is November 15, 2024. We are now, like, t plus whatever on the election where life in this country is gonna get better. Anyway, we've got lots to cover today.
Steve Palmer [:If you've got a but before I do that, a couple little basics. If you if you got a question you want us to cover a topic you think you can handle at the table, give us a shout. Check us out at our website. There's an interface where you can send us a question or comment. If you I mean, feel free to check us out on all the socials, leave comments. Norm will reply. I promise. He's relentless.
Steve Palmer [:Relentless is the rain. He will, he will reply, and we'll be happy to engage. That's what we like, and we appreciate everybody who's listening. The the downloads, the shares, the likes are all appreciated, and they're growing. So thank you very much. Those who know the format that we have sort of shifted to with this live know that we do a this day in history, and this day is no different than any other day except on November 15, 17, 77. So go back to the colonias. We signed the articles of Confederation, our first failed attempt at creating a United States government.
Steve Palmer [:Wasn't even really designed to be in the United States government. So looking back on history, you had a bunch of states who just said, f you to the crown. We don't want another one. Yeah. So they created this loose I think there wasn't even an executive branch. The president sort of sat above one branch of Congress, and there wasn't there's no judiciary. There was no ability to levy taxes, which was a huge problem because we had a big debt as a result of the revolutionary war. There was no the the federal government didn't have a standing army, no no militia or no power to even call up a militia, gave the states way too much authority and the federal government way too little authority.
Steve Palmer [:Then comes along Shays' Rebellion, which, was again about money owed and taxes up in Massachusetts. Farmers were getting taxed. They couldn't pay it. They were taking their land. It got violent. I'm summarizing all this, but it gets it gets a little violent. There's nothing that there's nothing Washington or any of the the, the federal government can do because they can't raise their own militia. That resolves itself.
Steve Palmer [:But, eventually, in 1787 ish, we decide that, we need a constitution, so we begin the series of constitutional conventions in 17/89. It's ratified, and here we are.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. Yeah. And here we are.
Steve Palmer [:Hats off to the United and by the way, I encourage everybody to read the constitution. And this is this is something
Norm Murdock [:It's not that long.
Steve Palmer [:As a as a lawyer as a lawyer, and when I hear people say we need to fundamentally change our government. Yeah. I have found that most people don't even understand how the government is supposed to operate. Right. And when I say when when they say we need to fundamentally change the government, I always ask them, what would you change? Right. And I typically get the crickets.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. I I get no one. Very specific thing, probably.
Steve Palmer [:Or You know or some tiny thing. I'm like, yeah. Well, that But It's already changed. Right? So I I get all the time, like, well, our constitution is racist or it's, sexist or whatever. And, you know, racist. Why? Because of slavery. Sexist. Why? Because I suppose that women didn't have a right to vote.
Steve Palmer [:And I'm like, yeah, but we fixed it. So now what? Like, what would you change now?
Norm Murdock [:Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:And, again, it's crickets. So when people wanna fundamentally change the government, beware. It's sort of like when people want to, get rid of guns. They don't even know what guns are or what the definition of various guns are. So no. Look. You wanna have a reasonable discussion about fundamentally changing the constitution? Read it. Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. And when you read it, read some history. Go read the Federalist Papers that go along with it and and understand what went into it. It is a it is it is a remarkable document. It it is an incredible
Norm Murdock [:It is.
Steve Palmer [:Incredibly simple yet lasting document. Right.
Norm Murdock [:And it and it was meant to be read by regular people.
Steve Palmer [:It was.
Norm Murdock [:Right. It was not written. Of course, we have lawyers and judges, but it wasn't written for them. Okay? It was written for farmers and retailers and merchants and
Steve Palmer [:For everybody. Right.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. Boat you know, ship owners and regular people who, you know, were literate could read this thing and understand it. And and that's what always gets me, Steve, is is the the idea that it's mega complex and come on.
Steve Palmer [:No. It's really not.
Norm Murdock [:We got 3 we got 3
Steve Palmer [:branches of government, and there's an interplay. And, really, what the constitution does is it defines the 3 branches of government and allots and designates what powers they have.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. So It enumerates them. Right? Bang bang bang bang.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. It just it tells you what they can do. Yeah. And it's very simple. Yeah. And it's it's it and it leaves a lot of play in the joints for interpretation and growth, and and that's what's happened in our country. Yeah. Even gives us, as we talked about last week, a little instruction book on how to change it when you need to.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. It's not so easy, but Yeah. It gives us a little instruction book. And think about it. Like, think how small the country was then and how big it is now, and it still works. Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:It still works. It's amazing. And and this move, it it and it it's not Trump. But this move in recent years by the Supreme Court justices that he and and previous presidents have appointed back to original intent, I I cannot get enough of this. Yeah. Please continue.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. The history text and tradition of the constitution. Now that that's that's gonna lead to some oddities at times. Sure. It will. But it it leads to oddities at other times when we don't follow the history text and tradition. Yeah. And, you know, these are things, like, when when we start to do things that are outside the rails or off the rails
Norm Murdock [:Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:Like, create constitutional rights. And look, this doesn't mean that the things that we are creating are not important. So if it's important enough that we need an amendment, let's do it. We did it after the civil war with, the 13, 14, 15th amendment.
Norm Murdock [:Right.
Steve Palmer [:We did it.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. Women's suffrage. We did that.
Steve Palmer [:We did it. Right.
Norm Murdock [:We we had booze prohibited, and then we took that back.
Steve Palmer [:But that's a perfect example of the stupidity of amending and making a constitutional amendment out of something that should be legislated.
Norm Murdock [:Out of policy. Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:Out of policy. Right? You you that was a that was an experiment in stupidity.
Norm Murdock [:Right.
Steve Palmer [:But, you know, it's it when we have tried to to create constitutional rights and the one I'm talking about is Roe v Wade. Right? And that that that wasn't the only one. There was a series there was this penundrum idea. So if you go back and read what was going on in those days, the court invented this penumbra like an umbrella. Yeah. It said, alright. Well, due process means, like, you have all these other things that we just sort of take for granted. It's under the penumbra of rights.
Steve Palmer [:And it doesn't mean that those things aren't important. I'm not saying that. What I am saying is that it's not in there.
Norm Murdock [:It's not in there.
Steve Palmer [:And when we started to add that stuff, there was no rule book on how to deal with it once we added it. So you were cramming down your theory of what should be a constitutional right on other people that don't think it should be a constitutional right.
Norm Murdock [:Right.
Brett Johnson [:And if it should be a
Steve Palmer [:constitutional right, get the votes.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. If you want clarity, follow the rule book, get an amendment passed.
Steve Palmer [:I remember Obama, like, talk during the Trump Hillary election. Well, you should go out and get the votes. Go get the votes.
Norm Murdock [:He's complaining.
Steve Palmer [:Go get the votes. We'll go get the votes. You want a constitutional right? Go get the votes. Get your votes. So it turns out Trump did get the votes, but and he did this time. So from that, we will shift over to news with Norm, both Ohio federal, local, whatever. And why and by the way, why does Ohio why Ohio? Because as Ohio goes, so does the world. That might be a little bit of a hyperbole, but it's all you know, this election, it it maybe represents that a little bit, and go back and check how many presidents are from Ohio.
Steve Palmer [:Now we've got a vice president from Ohio. We got Vivek from Ohio. We got lots of stuff going on from Ohio. Yeah. A lot of
Norm Murdock [:people even feel like JD Vance has already won the primary for 2028.
Steve Palmer [:A lot can happen.
Norm Murdock [:A lot can happen. But Yeah. It's it's amazing how many people are saying, oh, man. He's he's deputized.
Steve Palmer [:Oh, my god.
Norm Murdock [:So for for me, hot. What what's hot right now are all these, Trump legal cases kinda melting away. And the one that seems to be holding on so so I by the way, Norm Stradamas, by the way, predicted that Trump would not be, found guilty on any of these federal charges, and he will not be. I was right. But the Jack's Jack Smith stuff is all going away. Eileen Cannon ruled in July in a 93 page, decision that he wasn't even appointed correctly. Like, you know, much less that's records case being very novel and that raid at Mar a Lago and all that stuff. All gone.
Norm Murdock [:That's all going away. Jack Smith has announced he's resigning before Trump takes office. He's gonna write a report to Merrick Garland. Merrick Garland will have the option to release this report or not. Of course, he's gonna release it. It'll be very condemnatory on Trump. It'll be very one-sided. But Jack Smith and the federal cases are gonna be gone.
Norm Murdock [:The question that remains so Trump is not a felon yet, technically, but he's been found guilty on 34 felony account
Steve Palmer [:No. He's a felony. He's a convicted felon.
Norm Murdock [:Well, they I heard some lawyers dance around saying until he is sentenced, he's actually not a felon.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. I disagree with that. But But
Norm Murdock [:that they're dancing. They're dancing. Anyway, Mershon, keeps delaying his sentencing date and keeps allowing for the president's lawyers and for the prosecution, the New York prosecution because it's a state issue, to, brief him on why the federal immunity, the presidential immunity, SCOTUS decision in July of this year, how that affects this this case. And this case is about the 2016 election wherein Trump, you know, reached a deal with, Stormy Daniels. You can call it hush money. You can call it a, you know, an NDA, Whatever you wanna call it. He paid her money. There were terms of that.
Norm Murdock [:And what they're saying is that in order to get the money to pay her, that somehow he committed 34 federal offenses that the jury didn't even have to single out and agree on. But somehow, he committed some underlying federal crime in order state crime. Well, in order for the state crime
Steve Palmer [:Correct. Right. That
Norm Murdock [:you you so That's a
Steve Palmer [:crime, by the way, that the feds wouldn't prosecute.
Norm Murdock [:That's right. So it was bootstrapped into the state, noninterference law. So the state has an election law that you can't do certain things to interfere with an election, and they're prosecuting Trump or did prosecute him under that. So it's very complex. There's layers and layers.
Steve Palmer [:If you if you if you if you if you fill out these forms in such a way as to hide criminal activity under a federal staff felony criminal activity under a federal statute, then that becomes a a federal I think a federal misdemeanor under federal statute, then that becomes a New York state Right. Felony. Yeah. They never really identified what the crimes were in the federal side, but they came came up with these New York State felonies as a result. And look. I mean, I
Norm Murdock [:The jury instruction is one of the appealable things.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:Because contrary to, the law, the the federal law and and New York law says that the jury has to decide on the underlying crime. Like, they specifically need to agree that what is bootstrapping this into a New York crime Yeah. They have to agree what the underlying crime was, but the Mershon never Yeah. Made them do that.
Steve Palmer [:Judicial instruction to the jury did not require the jury to figure out what the underlying crimes were or identify them or even let alone whether Trump committed them. So look, I mean, I Marshawn, I I I was critical of him, throughout this case. I was very critical of the prosecution, particularly the New York attorney general, all of it, because they they all entered into office with the platform that I'm gonna indict Trump. I don't know what I'm gonna indict him on yet, mind you. Yeah. Right. But I'm gonna indict him.
Norm Murdock [:I'm gonna get it.
Steve Palmer [:And as soon as you do that, anything you do after is suspect, whether it's legit or not.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:Nonetheless, the judge here has sort of done the right thing since. You know, he delayed sentencing until after the election. That I think that was, he didn't have to do that.
Norm Murdock [:No. He didn't have to.
Steve Palmer [:And, now I'm not sure that he would have gotten away with not doing it. I'm sure that there would have been appeals and challenges and everything else, but he didn't do it because he didn't wanna use his little state court case to impact the outcome of a United States presidential election. Then it would have. It would have absolutely. For sure. One way or another.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:And then he's done something else here. He's he's continued to delay this, to get briefing, as you said, Norm, on this new issue of possible immunity, that Trump might enjoy under the latest Supreme Court law. And I think what's gonna happen here is all of this is just gonna be punted. The, you know, Trump is gonna get inaugurated, and whether he is sentenced or not sentenced, whether the judge finds that he is immune or not immune, whatever it is, there's going to be an appeal, and the appeal will be stayed. And in legal terms, stay means postponed, delayed, held off, pushed down the road, you know, basically not dealt with until Trump is done with his presidency. And by then, who cares? You know?
Norm Murdock [:He'll be 82 years old.
Steve Palmer [:Whether he's he might even not be alive.
Norm Murdock [:Might not yeah. Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:But, it's all gonna get just pushed out. And, you know, the judge may, in fact, dismiss the case. I don't know.
Brett Johnson [:And Biden has no pardon ship on this, does he? Not not in New York state court. Yeah. There's it's a state law.
Norm Murdock [:What is what is interesting, so
Steve Palmer [:Just to clean it up. The the New York governor could.
Norm Murdock [:Well, and so so I'll just I'll just I'll just this isn't me advocating this idea, but this is a novel idea. If the underlying crime was federal, the there is an argument to be made that Trump or Biden could pardon him for the underlying federal crime.
Steve Palmer [:Doesn't matter because
Norm Murdock [:And then there's no New York crime.
Steve Palmer [:There still would be. So, look, I can commit the crime of, say, tampering with evidence. Say say, I'm in a I'm in an I'm in an accident, and I go hide my car in a garage, and I'm later exonerated of the accident. But I'm still I've still committed tampering with evidence by hiding it Mhmm. During an ongoing investigation. So I I don't what I'm saying is I don't think that pardoning Trump of the federal crimes in effect, he's already been pardoned anyway because they they looked at it in the past. Pardoning him of the federal crimes, he would still be committing the state crimes under the state's theory. I don't agree with the state's theory, but he would still be committing the crimes because the crimes were done with the intent to avoid detection on the federal side.
Steve Palmer [:So it's not premised upon a commission of the federal crimes, it's premised upon Trump's intent to avoid detection of a federal crime.
Norm Murdock [:Interesting. Well, that that would be, I guess, the response to that. So I bet, you know, I've heard former, assistant AGs, you know, roll this out as as an interesting possibility. But I think most people think Marshawn is either gonna dismiss a case or he's just gonna fine Trump. He's gonna fine him something and get rid of it that way. You know, pay pay $10, pay a $100, pay a1000 or a1000000, whatever it is, and and then we're done.
Steve Palmer [:I'm trying to think what I always look at this stuff even when or I try to try to reverse it. Like, what would I do if I'm a judge in this case? Yeah. You you want this hot potato out of your courtroom somewhere
Norm Murdock [:or another. Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:So you make a decision on immunity and dismiss it. You know it's going up in the Court of Appeals. Yeah. Then you're sort of it's out of your hands.
Norm Murdock [:It's out of your hands.
Steve Palmer [:The other thing you can do is just deny or not dismiss the case, argue to proceed with sent or, proceed with sentencing, but then stay it, then put an order saying, look, we're gonna postpone this until the president is is over because we're not gonna sentence a sitting president, or you sentence him and then stay execution of the sentence until, until the presidency is over. Whatever you do, you'd I I would do nothing to impact the sitting president
Norm Murdock [:Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:The executive of the United States of America.
Brett Johnson [:Can all of that be done by January 6th, though?
Steve Palmer [:Oh, yeah.
Brett Johnson [:Could it be done?
Steve Palmer [:That'd be done today.
Brett Johnson [:Oh, could it? Okay.
Norm Murdock [:He's given them till November 26th to return their briefs. And then, the scuttlebutt is he his next decision date is December 2nd. Okay. Alright. So Yeah. But but he doesn't have to stick to that person.
Brett Johnson [:Sure. Sure.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. Generally. I mean, look, judges do do their job, generally speaking. So he's gonna want this out of it. He's gonna wanna resolve one way or another. Yeah. And how that happens, I don't know. But this is the problem.
Steve Palmer [:Right? You have a sticky stupid prosecution, and now you got a sticky stupid mess you gotta clean up. Yeah. Like, it should this case should not have been brought in the first place. And it it was a it was a political trope. I don't care what you say. I mean, I really don't care what you say, because anybody else who would have done this, they wouldn't have been prosecuted No. Whether it's a legitimate crime or not. So it shouldn't it was it was prosecuted to say more than half the country.
Steve Palmer [:I can safely say now probably would say this was prosecuted in order to gain a political advantage.
Norm Murdock [:It was law fair.
Steve Palmer [:Now the, maybe half or maybe a little less than half the country would disagree, but isn't that the point? It's like it's like reasonable minds can differ on this. Yeah. So perhaps have been brought.
Norm Murdock [:Professor Brad Smith, who was head of the FEC for a while, for elections committee, he was all ready to testify, in this case, and Mershon would not let him testify. And his testimony was that, per the per previous, Supreme Court decisions, that actually paying somebody for an NDA or hush money is perfectly legal. It's perfectly legal. So the the whole concept of paying Stormy Daniels as an election violation
Steve Palmer [:What they were saying is by paying her, it was really an election contribution.
Norm Murdock [:Exactly.
Steve Palmer [:And it, you know, it it was a stretch either way.
Norm Murdock [:So John Edwards was charged for the very same thing. It was a girlfriend situation paid out of the you know. Right? And they and the Supreme Court ruled that it It
Steve Palmer [:was not really a contribution. Right? So, anyway, it so if it's it's I guess what the theory would be as soon as it's an election contribution, then you have certain obligations to disclose it. Right. And he didn't disclose it. And that was a federal crime. And, therefore, because he doctored his tax documents in state court to
Norm Murdock [:A legal
Steve Palmer [:to call it a call it legal fees instead of, whatever. So he called it legal fees to his lawyer.
Norm Murdock [:Right.
Steve Palmer [:Lawyer used that money to pay her off, and, therefore, he did that with the intent to avoid or to cover up his federal crimes that weren't really crimes.
Norm Murdock [:That's
Steve Palmer [:so, therefore, New York indicted him on felonies. I mean, it
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. It was it There's layers of appealable issues.
Steve Palmer [:It was a nonsensical mess that it was probably gonna get reversed on appeal. Who knows? I don't know what the New York courts would
Norm Murdock [:have done.
Steve Palmer [:Sooner or later, would have found the federal courts.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. Well, turning to Ohio then. We had we have a case here this week where, near, Columbus, there's a school district called Olentangi Orange. High school principal, hot on the heels of the election results, which she was not happy with, issued a school wide email.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. This is tragic.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. I mean, like, I don't know what she's thinking. Like, you know
Brett Johnson [:What no. What was that then?
Norm Murdock [:A school a school wide email calling the the election of Donald Trump, you know, a bit hideous and but, you know, fascist and all that. And that a vote for Kamala was a vote for lightness and brightness and and, you know, she she was basically in the email complaining about the election results. She would she's the high school principal.
Brett Johnson [:It is oh, the email was sent to who?
Norm Murdock [:It was sent to board members, parents. The it's school wide. And it's just it was totally inappropriate. Yeah. I don't know if they're gonna fire her, but they did put her on administrative leave.
Brett Johnson [:And and I would She's a high school principal. Think the same way if if the election turned the other way.
Steve Palmer [:But what I'm saying is is that this principle would have been the 1st p first person to flip out. To complain if somebody Yeah. Like, say let's just say that somebody send or goes out, sends an email out to the entire school district saying, thank goodness, the world is saved. Trump was elected. Life is great. That's totally inappropriate. His principal would have been gone berserk. Exactly.
Steve Palmer [:Right. Would have gone berserk. And reversed if a principal said something the other way. It's like whenever you test these series, I always it's like always apply it both ways.
Norm Murdock [:Absolutely.
Steve Palmer [:And if you can't do sort of like now now all these, senators are being asked, do you still wanna get rid of the filibuster? Yeah. And they're like, well, not now because we don't have control over both branches, you know.
Norm Murdock [:I mean, there in federal law, there's an actual prohibition against federal employees when they're on the job participating in politics.
Steve Palmer [:In politics. Right?
Brett Johnson [:And and
Norm Murdock [:this is the same thing. And it's
Steve Palmer [:like I thought you were going in a different direction because there's been, like look. The the people who are up in arms, like kids even, and there there's, you know, the mental health is a result of all of what's going on in the world. And I'm not just gonna blame the election. Clearly, that's not
Brett Johnson [:I know. Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:But it's like The world.
Norm Murdock [:People are stressed out.
Steve Palmer [:We went through a news cycle here where everybody said the world is gonna end. You're gonna have no rights. Oprah is saying, you know, you're not gonna even be this may be the last chance you ever get to vote. This man's Hitler, all of this insanity. And now you've got this fallout where people are just going berserk. I mean, people are committing suicide. This is horrible. Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:And and I I you know, you see you hear these screams on YouTube and Facebook. It's like and they mean it. They mean it. And come on, people.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. You know? There's a case in LA, a case in Connecticut, all over the you know, where these teachers, the the teacher there's other cases, but I'm just gonna stick with educators at this point. Where teachers are have done similar things, you know, on YouTube or Twitter or whatever, you know, even, this guy in his classroom, a much loved, teacher in LA, a man, you know, some kid taped him, like, during the class. And he's just and he's dropping the f bomb, and he's going wild about how it's all over. I feel so sorry for your generation. We let you down. Kamala should be president. And, you know, just going on and on.
Norm Murdock [:And you're like, dude, you're a teacher.
Brett Johnson [:So you were in high school from what? From when to when?
Norm Murdock [:72 to 76.
Brett Johnson [:Okay. You were in high school?
Steve Palmer [:I graduated 88. So 84 to 88.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. High school in, you know, 80 80 to 84.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah.
Brett Johnson [:I don't recall, and I I preface that by saying, I don't recall any teacher talking about politics.
Steve Palmer [:No. It was it was very apolitical.
Norm Murdock [:We talked about It
Brett Johnson [:was about at least I don't recall events.
Steve Palmer [:We talked about current events. Right? I
Brett Johnson [:don't recall it at least.
Norm Murdock [:But we studied both sides of it. So when I was in high school, you know, the Vietnam War had not ended yet. Right? It 72 to 76. And there were, there were riots on campus. Kent State had just happened. Right? So so we were we we were being like, it was a rough time socially in America. I mean, the civil rights movement movement, the women's movement, Vietnam, anti war protests, people going to Canada to avoid the draft. I mean, shit was flying around.
Norm Murdock [:And we studied that, but we we studied it academically. Academically. Exactly. Thank you.
Brett Johnson [:I I just I I see the difference when my kids were in in school and they the teachers openly talking about politics.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. Mine and What is that? What is that?
Norm Murdock [:Right. What are you doing?
Brett Johnson [:What what are you doing?
Norm Murdock [:So unprofessional. I think
Brett Johnson [:it is too. I I maybe not a touch.
Steve Palmer [:I don't know. Not just politics though, but social justice type stuff. Wokeness type stuff. So I'm seeing that Please sit there for sure. Yeah. Infiltrating into, like, you know, my son's, like, look, I have to have a certain attitude in my writing and my answers to these questions in literature because, otherwise, I won't get a good grade.
Norm Murdock [:Like the young lady at the University of Cincinnati.
Steve Palmer [:It's like yeah. And and he's right.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. He is right.
Steve Palmer [:He's right. And, it's, not all not all his teachers, but there's a few. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Wow. You know you know who you are. Yeah. Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:You know you know who you are. And when I was in college, though, there was a couple professors like that. I had a friend of mine who, took a course in Vietnam history or something and wrote a 15 page paper. And it was a phenomenal paper, and he got he didn't get an a because the professor disagreed with his conclusions. You know? And it's like, you know, if you're gonna ask a student to write an opinion paper, the opinion shouldn't matter. Right. You know,
Brett Johnson [:the Right. It's how the the opinion is
Steve Palmer [:I used to be more formulated. Yeah.
Brett Johnson [:How they want
Norm Murdock [:to be. An argument and and and support it.
Brett Johnson [:Whether it's crap or not, it doesn't matter. It's how how did you get there?
Steve Palmer [:How'd you get there? So you can disagree with the outcome all you want. So this is this is law school. I do I do a podcast, Norm, called they don't teach you that in law school. So, anyway, lawyer talk, check it out, folks. And it's a they don't teach you this in law school. Yeah. But I had 2 law students here, and I was talking to him about this. When you write your when when you write your law school exams, you know, understand there's gonna be a majority view on what the law is, a minority view on what the law is.
Steve Palmer [:Write the arguments for both sides and pick 1. It doesn't matter which which one you pick. You just have to support it. That is good lawyering. That is good lawyering. Now you can have your own personal opinions, and this judge in New York can have his own personal opinions. Yeah. But what the law says and how you support it is what really matters.
Norm Murdock [:That's right.
Steve Palmer [:And then the outcome of these things as the law changes it because it it it's impossible to say humans aren't gonna the the human opinions aren't gonna infiltrate the decisions. They will.
Norm Murdock [:They will.
Steve Palmer [:But the idea is it moves slowly, and that this is called common law because it was the law common to the land. As as the as the as society changes, the law changes. As law changes, society changes. And, you know, it's just give and take. And I find it fascinating that the like, the Western legal history is fascinating that way.
Norm Murdock [:It is.
Steve Palmer [:And, when you when teachers are are not teaching this, when we are not teaching our kids to look, the term is called critical thinking. When we are not teaching our kids to engage in critical thinking, but rather to agree with you, you're you're doing us a disservice. You're doing the educational system a disservice.
Norm Murdock [:Last last show, we we had so much to talk about following the election that we didn't get to this. But there was a news item. A major report came out on the effects. And this just is talking about time of the day, like how many hours of the day do you have to instruct,
Steve Palmer [:in
Norm Murdock [:this case, it was medical students. So what they're saying is that DEI class time is now so great, for future doctors. Oh, yeah.
Steve Palmer [:I've seen yeah. I've seen And
Norm Murdock [:they're like and and and I happen to have a doctor in training that's pretty close to me, you know, family member. But and he said, dad, it's true. That that we should be studying anatomy and and hard science stuff, and we're spending an hour or 2 hours a semester on stuff that really in the old days, we would just call it ethics, where you treat everybody the same, and you treat the patient as a whole person. And he's like, we know that. Well, like, mostly, we have nice people that go to medical school. We don't need to be taught for 2 or 3 hours or whatever an hour or 2 hours, a day. We we don't need this information. We need the other information on how to actually treat and diagnose and, pharmaceuticals.
Norm Murdock [:And he and and the report that I was referring to has said that that is probably gonna have a deleterious effect on future doctors.
Steve Palmer [:It will. Right? And
Norm Murdock [:look. Or because they're not getting the education.
Steve Palmer [:It's impacting your pocketbook, if nothing else. Yeah. You know, why in law school, they used to teach a a class that your one of your first classes was always legal history. You know, get a little bit of foundation Yeah. From going back to Yeah. Common law times in England and France. Yeah. And then when I the right about when I was in law school in the early nineties, they switched to this thing called, quote, legal systems, which was like this sort of it was like the legal version of critical race theory.
Steve Palmer [:You know, it's like the the we're gonna be critical of the law. We're gonna change how it should be. We're not gonna teach it this way. It was like Yeah. And it it was a it was a political implement for somebody with an opinion to cram it down on law students. And I didn't even know I realized at the time. Now that was only a semester long class. I don't know what they're doing now, but I I I fear.
Norm Murdock [:Oh, it's soft.
Steve Palmer [:I fear the worst. I fear the worst. But, you know, I think I think, if nothing else, what we have learned in the last week and a half is that America's sick of
Norm Murdock [:it or what they're tired of. They're sick of it. Yeah.
Brett Johnson [:It's it's certainly has that lacing of it, doesn't it? Yeah. Yep. Just like, okay. We're we're done. We're done. And boy, yeah, I've seen it kinda going back to national, I guess. But that talk about everybody throwing Biden under the bus on this
Steve Palmer [:one. Oh, yeah. Yeah. He's,
Brett Johnson [:know that it you know, sick of it. You know, he he's just not there
Norm Murdock [:Yeah.
Brett Johnson [:And didn't help anything. You know, that that whole process of
Norm Murdock [:But wasn't it nice to see
Brett Johnson [:You know, Harris coming in under the guise of him Yes. Going out and and and it just backfired to pull
Norm Murdock [:it out. I didn't not
Brett Johnson [:to get back to national, but yeah.
Norm Murdock [:But one one nice one nice thing to say, it's not my wonderful thing, but this was kinda wonderful that you had, a presidential the president-elect Trump sitting down at a fireplace with, the sitting president Yeah. Joe Biden, and then talking civilly to each other for 2 hours.
Steve Palmer [:Well, Trump's saying, yeah, politics politics is a nasty business, and it's sort of over now. And it's not so nasty.
Norm Murdock [:You you know? Okay. I don't even call you called me Hitler and Mussolini. But but he did like, maybe he's learned something after 4 years out in the diaspora.
Steve Palmer [:But he did the same thing with Obama in 2016.
Norm Murdock [:No. Like, let let's let it go, and let's move on.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. So it's it shows you how far afield our political sister or the political debate has gone. So they're they're out there screaming, this guy is Hitler, and yet he's meeting with him in the White House. So it it does reflect something here, how rhetorical this b s really is.
Brett Johnson [:And and voters, those that are going off the deep end need to see that.
Steve Palmer [:That's right. This was a lot.
Brett Johnson [:Listen to it. That's all theater. It's all dramatic. Right. Yes. Okay. There's some things you should be aware of. Then if you're not like where it goes, voice it as you have always done.
Brett Johnson [:But they're sitting down for 2 hours and not bickering.
Norm Murdock [:So here's here's theater.
Steve Palmer [:Here's I wouldn't sit down with Adolf Hitler No. And have coffee. No. No. You wouldn't do it.
Norm Murdock [:No. You would show them or something. Right? You would you would eliminate, like, there's
Steve Palmer [:People did before Hitler became Hitler or before he did what he did, and and maybe they didn't know. But, like, looking back, would you say this guy's akin to Hitler
Norm Murdock [:That's right.
Steve Palmer [:And do anything other than killing?
Norm Murdock [:Well, there's the old ethical, debate about the Hitler baby. Right? Like, when he was maybe 2 years old
Steve Palmer [:Would you kill him?
Norm Murdock [:Know. Right. Right.
Steve Palmer [:Would you ignore Hitler?
Norm Murdock [:Right. Knowing what he was gonna grow into. So so where I get off on this is so so my friend here, Brett, you know, clearly, he used the word asshole. I'm I'm not too far from Brett on that. I think Trump is probably an asshole. I'm sure he probably is.
Brett Johnson [:So we all know people that are like Yeah. That didn't call them that.
Norm Murdock [:So the difference is some people who thought that voted against him, and maybe for that reason. Other people looked past that and said, I'm into the policy. Yet, like and Nikki Haley said this. Look. I'm I'm looking past, you know, the messenger to the message. And if he's gonna implement these policies, then I'm gonna vote for him.
Steve Palmer [:See, I don't and I don't know. Look. I'm not even gonna go so far as this. I don't think my my opinions on Trump have gone roller coaster over the years. But I I don't think he's an asshole.
Brett Johnson [:Weed. Yeah. Right.
Norm Murdock [:I think for everybody.
Steve Palmer [:I don't think he's an asshole. I think he's just a brawler. And if you call if you call Trump an asshole, he's gonna come back with another insult for you.
Norm Murdock [:Oh, yeah.
Brett Johnson [:It'll be
Steve Palmer [:it'll be funnier. Yeah. Yeah. And if you call him and if you come back with something else, he'll come back with something else. He won't stop.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:Right. And, like, he is the guy. You don't pick a a shot or a a insult to match with because he's good at
Norm Murdock [:it. Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:And he's from New York, and he's in the streets.
Norm Murdock [:And he's gonna give you a nick nickname that's
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:I know. And he's the guy.
Brett Johnson [:Whether whether his nickname sticks with him or his followers into it. And that's right. He would
Steve Palmer [:get followers out. Anybody, any man, any boy, any man who was on a football team or in a locker room or in a group of friends. Yeah. Like, he that's how that's true.
Norm Murdock [:Oh, yes. That is true.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. Like, I had stupid nicknames. I gave people stupid nicknames. And I, you know, I had some quippy insults, and I I had to take some quippy insults.
Norm Murdock [:That's right.
Steve Palmer [:And that's Trump. And I think he really looks at it that way. I do too. And I think Trump really I think at at some point, Trump was very surprised at how much I think, to some extent, he was not serious, but everybody else was. I I think to some extent Yeah. I think he he underestimated I think how much people would come after him. Yeah.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:I think he underestimated that the first time around, which is a nice shift into his cabinet selection.
Norm Murdock [:Yes. It is. And and so and so, Steve, I like what you I like that thought. So what that makes me think is one thing that I definitely believe Trump violated, in his first term was the sanctity of the bully pulpit. You know, like these texts while he's on the toilet and stuff like that, That was crazy stuff.
Steve Palmer [:Right.
Norm Murdock [:I don't know why he was doing stuff like that responding to Rosie O'Donnell.
Brett Johnson [:Well, you get addicted to that. You get addicted because you've you post it and then you wanna see the reaction.
Norm Murdock [:That's right.
Steve Palmer [:I got
Norm Murdock [:caught up in that.
Steve Palmer [:I said it a 100 times. Trump without Twitter is awesome.
Norm Murdock [:That's exactly right.
Steve Palmer [:Right. Trump without Twitter is awesome.
Brett Johnson [:We we as collectively, we don't need it.
Steve Palmer [:We don't need it. So No. Look. There's needed. Sean Hannon. And God rest his soul, he was killed, and he was killed in Afghanistan. And he used to work for me. He was a lawyer.
Steve Palmer [:And I used to ask him about the military because I didn't serve. You know, I respect those who did. But I was, like, at the time, I was studying World War 2 and Mhmm. You know, there was a lot of sort of mid level officers that the that the enlisted guys hated. You know? And the word they used to use is chicken shit. They say that guy's chicken shit, making you do stupid stuff just like, you know Right. Just sort of chicken shit, couldn't fight their way out of a paper bag. Right.
Steve Palmer [:And then eventually cleared them out as we won the war. But it you know, I asked him about that. He goes, you don't respect if you don't respect the man, you have to respect the rank. Yeah. And, you know, in Yeah. It it it stuck with me because I go into courts, and I don't always like the judge that I'm appearing in front of. And I don't always like the prosecutor who's also in the courtroom. And, frankly, I don't always like my clients and, you know No.
Steve Palmer [:But I respect the forum. I respect the decorum of it.
Norm Murdock [:Right.
Steve Palmer [:I stand when I talk to the court. It's always your honor. Yes, sir. No, sir. Mister prosecutor. And that stuff matters.
Norm Murdock [:It matters.
Steve Palmer [:That stuff matters.
Norm Murdock [:And then to that point, what you said, people took these presidential, like you say, locker room kind of stuff. They took that seriously. He never should have engaged in any of that. That was a terrible thing. Ever. He did. And I think he did ostracize and upset a lot of people who, right or wrong, they they want a president that they can look up to.
Steve Palmer [:So they took any port in the storm that happened to be Biden last time around, and then they realized that that was a terrible port, that that was no port at all. That was that was insanity. Insanity. Mister back to normalcy turned into the furthest left leaning president with policies we've ever had and then turned into a just a a you know, an empty vessel.
Norm Murdock [:Yes. Yeah. Well, sadly. Yeah. So talking about, appointments, before we get to federal, DeWine governor DeWine here in Ohio has, to fill, of course, JD Vance's vacancy as an Ohio senator to the United States Senate, there will be a special election in a year after this appointment. So that person will not only have to get elected in a year from now, whoever gets this appointment, but then Vance's term would end 2 years after that. So within 3 years, they have to run for election twice.
Brett Johnson [:Twice.
Norm Murdock [:Whoever gets this appointment. And I think he's gonna pick, Jane Timken, who is head of the Ohio Republican Party and the delegation to the RNC. She's kind of a a swamp creature. I don't think he's gonna pick Frank LaRose or somebody else who's a little bit more, you know, of a I guess, you know, gonna break the normalcy.
Steve Palmer [:Right. You know? Sort of the Trumpian idea of coming in.
Brett Johnson [:Say Matt Dolan's on the list too.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. Correct.
Brett Johnson [:So I don't I don't know.
Norm Murdock [:He's not gonna pick him. Yeah.
Brett Johnson [:I don't know.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. Yeah. Dwayne's gonna pick a a a swamper.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. Dwayne is that's that's Dwayne. That
Norm Murdock [:that's that's DeWine.
Brett Johnson [:Looking at it.
Steve Palmer [:And he
Norm Murdock [:and he's and he's already making mumblings about, you know, the first female senator from Ohio. So he's doing DEI on us already. You know?
Steve Palmer [:Yep. No. I mean, that that look.
Norm Murdock [:Identity politics. Right? You know? It's because she's a woman.
Steve Palmer [:Like, what's Mister DeWine, I would respectfully request you pick the best person for you.
Brett Johnson [:Pick the best person.
Norm Murdock [:Right. Exactly. Exactly. Right.
Brett Johnson [:Because we did collectively when we put him in. I mean, well, in theory. In theory.
Steve Palmer [:In theory. In theory. In theory.
Brett Johnson [:In when when Vance was I'm not saying I voted for against whatever. I'm just saying, as the state of Ohio, we voted for Vance Right. To be in that office.
Norm Murdock [:So Not skin color. Not gender. Exactly.
Brett Johnson [:Just whoever's The best. But he's saying. That's great.
Steve Palmer [:Here's the thing though. Here's the thing. I was listening to, I don't know who it was. Some the podcast realm has changed things. It changed the election. I think it changed it's changed the newscape. And I think that if DeWine puts a rhino in there or a swamper as you call them
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. Or her Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:Then beware of the primary. I don't think the Republican Party I don't think the new Republican Party is beyond primary people
Norm Murdock [:Oh, they will.
Steve Palmer [:And saying, you know what? Yeah. No. No. We are going a different direction with this party. And like it or not, this is the path we're on. Yeah. And it's not, you know, it's not the nineties style Republicanism anymore. It's just not.
Steve Palmer [:No. It's it's it's it's really a lot more like the sixties style Democrats.
Norm Murdock [:That's very true. So we could
Brett Johnson [:look at somebody that's appointed in that office, and the Republican party may back somebody completely different in a year's time.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. Yeah.
Brett Johnson [:You could that could happen.
Steve Palmer [:I was listening to a podcast. Primary. Oh, and not only I was listening to a podcast who say, I'm gonna get them primaried. Like, somebody with that much influence
Norm Murdock [:Oh, yeah.
Steve Palmer [:Somebody with that much influence will say, now look, Ohio is a pretty significant place because you got Vance, and Vance is gonna be pushing down Trump's wishes. Yeah. And, if DeWine you know, that that's the that's the that's the other side of DeWine's conundrum right now is that he's got a president who's gonna say, look, you wanna play ball with me? Here's who I want.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:And, it's Vance's seat. So there might be some influence there. I don't know. And I don't know if that'd be LaRose. I I I have no idea. Yeah. But Or
Norm Murdock [:Dolan or who?
Steve Palmer [:Dolan. Yeah. But, it's gonna Trump's gonna want somebody consistent with his philosophy or somebody I think, really, Trump's philosophy at this point is somebody is not gonna backstab him. And, Yeah. And that's look. I I
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. A solid vote for his agenda. Yeah. You know? And we we just went through this, senate, majority leader, secret vote in DC. They picked John Thune
Steve Palmer [:With Thune.
Norm Murdock [:Instead of Rick Scott from Florida, who was Trump's
Steve Palmer [:Who was Trump's pick. Right.
Norm Murdock [:So they turned Trump down on that, and and and Thune got elected. But Thune has said, you know, okay. We're not gonna be a rubber stamp. We're really gonna look at his, you know, advising consent on his cabinet. But we I am committed as the new leader, to his agenda. So he has at least made that statement.
Steve Palmer [:And I think there's more power behind Trump at this point than there was last time. Yes. Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:But Won the popular vote.
Steve Palmer [:Won the popular vote. Yeah. For example. Now look, as as we're talking about his cabinet, I and I get it. Vivek, Ohio makes it big again. Yeah. Yeah. Rami Swamy, a good upper Arlington dude right here in Central Ohio.
Norm Murdock [:Evan Elon. Right?
Steve Palmer [:They are the Dodge people. Now, look, Brett, you brought this up last week, and I I have heard tell of other like, there's a few people on the left wing media are talking about this. Very few people on the right side are really talking about it, and you brought it up. Like, what's his conflict? Like, what is what are the conflicts of both these gentlemen? Now in theory, their positions outside the government. You know, they're they're like advisers.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. Well, okay. So They're still
Norm Murdock [:Right. So you you
Steve Palmer [:They're still impacting policy Yes.
Norm Murdock [:Big time.
Brett Johnson [:You're appointing one person who has been at the government trough of slop for years.
Steve Palmer [:For years. Yeah.
Brett Johnson [:And he is supposed to
Steve Palmer [:be Brilliant as he is.
Brett Johnson [:Line iteming. No. That's waste. That's and he's looking at waste?
Steve Palmer [:Is he gonna pick himself? Is he
Brett Johnson [:gonna pick himself?
Norm Murdock [:He fired 70% of the people at Twitter. He knows how to get rid of fat.
Brett Johnson [:I don't But Twitter Twitter was not at the government trough.
Norm Murdock [:No. No. No. I'm no. I'm just saying he's a cost cutter.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. For sure. For
Steve Palmer [:sure. Yeah.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:Here's what I think the truth of this is in in both sides of it. One, I think it's true that Elon is going to operate independently of his own business interest. I think he will because that's who he is. I I think so. He's sort of a me he doesn't care. And the
Brett Johnson [:ex has probably proven that.
Steve Palmer [:2, he can do it. 2, the appearance of it is what troubles me. Right. And 3, whoever follows him up will have the same power and may not operate independently.
Norm Murdock [:So my understanding is this doge, you know, which I think that's what
Steve Palmer [:And they put a sunset on it. Right?
Norm Murdock [:But I but I think the word doge 6. Is from Italian politics. I think it was a prince.
Brett Johnson [:Oh, is it? Oh, okay. I thought it was an acronym.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. So a doge well, it is an acronym.
Steve Palmer [:But it Department of Government Efficiency to that.
Norm Murdock [:Okay. It also means the wealthy prince.
Steve Palmer [:Of of
Norm Murdock [:yeah. So a doge if you look up the word doge, doge is like a a prince
Steve Palmer [:or a
Norm Murdock [:or a king or something.
Steve Palmer [:Got it.
Norm Murdock [:So it's a it's a it's kind of a
Steve Palmer [:And they put a sunset on it. So it's a it's a 20 6. 2026. Yeah. It's supposed
Norm Murdock [:to Jan July 4th.
Brett Johnson [:July that's right.
Norm Murdock [:It's also 2 100 and 50th anniversary of the country.
Steve Palmer [:That's right. But I think here's the problem though. If Trump if Trump has a doze, the next person's gonna have a doge. And the person after that's gonna have a doge.
Norm Murdock [:And we've had them in the past.
Steve Palmer [:This is my problem with all you socialists out there and and fascists out there Yeah. Is that you think that your candidate is gonna fix everything, engineer the economy, do everything they're supposed to do because they're that good. Yeah. Fine. Even if I give you that Right. I'm gonna give you that you have the one person in the history of the entire world that can do it without becoming corrupt and killing millions of people. The person after your person can't.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:Right? So this is sort of the same thing.
Brett Johnson [:Oh, it go ahead. Go ahead. Yeah. I I
Steve Palmer [:I think, you know, and this is what scares me a little bit about it. And, again, I'm not worried about Elon because I don't think he's going to impact policy to affect his own self interest. He will. He'll be criticized
Norm Murdock [:If he did that.
Steve Palmer [:He'll be criticized either way.
Norm Murdock [:Either way. But
Steve Palmer [:and he does a lot of business with China, so he's got a lot of Yeah. Yeah. But but I think he'll be good at this, and and people like him.
Norm Murdock [:And Vivek, I think, is his number 2 on this.
Steve Palmer [:Is number 2. But but after the next person, I don't know that we'll have that.
Norm Murdock [:Well, Steve, here's my understanding.
Steve Palmer [:I could
Norm Murdock [:and I could be wrong. So we had there is a a model for this kind of commission. Back in the Reagan days, it was the Grace Commission, Rich, which was privately financed. And the talk is that the, this committee or this task force that Elon and Vivek are gonna put together is also gonna be privately financed. So government dollars
Steve Palmer [:No. No. I'm great with that. Yeah. So I feel bad. Look. I don't feel horrible about this. And I think at the end of the day true.
Steve Palmer [:I think at
Brett Johnson [:the end
Steve Palmer [:of the day, this is a great thing. My concerns are primarily the criticisms that they're gonna take.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. Oh, yes. It
Steve Palmer [:it's like, here. Start start throwing darts at me. What do I mean? Now, you know, it doesn't give a flying rat's ass.
Norm Murdock [:And tell tellingly, the grace commission wrote a big long list of things to cut and reform, and the the swamp did none of it.
Steve Palmer [:Right. So
Norm Murdock [:yeah. So the report went nowhere.
Steve Palmer [:But Trump will?
Norm Murdock [:It will. Yeah. I think he will.
Brett Johnson [:Power to do this stuff, though. Is he just trying to say, well, they told me to do it, so I'm gonna do it?
Steve Palmer [:No. I I think I think I think Trump no. Maybe.
Norm Murdock [:Well, he has executive power over his agencies. But, look. Right.
Steve Palmer [:This is like I don't know. I mean, look. Businesses do this all the time. Yeah. So Yeah. I've got a business upstairs.
Norm Murdock [:Right.
Steve Palmer [:And this year, in fact, the at the end of the year, you know, because my business shifted a lot, like, sort of tectonically. Is that the right I I had huge shifts, because of COVID. And now it's like, I need to go back, and I need to audit everything I'm doing Right. Because I know I've got dollars going out that don't need to go. I need to fix it. Well,
Norm Murdock [:think of this as bankruptcy.
Steve Palmer [:A lot of people hire consultants to do this. A bankruptcy
Norm Murdock [:court will do that. They'll bring in a guy who will report to the court Yeah.
Brett Johnson [:Of what needs to be of a bankruptcy does.
Norm Murdock [:What needs to be
Brett Johnson [:a cut. Get the emotion out of it.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. So, like, I would I could and I do this with with, Glenn, my accountant all the time. I'll I'll call him up and say, what do I need to do? What what's going on? He's not a lawyer. Yeah. But he knows business. He's committed
Brett Johnson [:to advice.
Steve Palmer [:Don't do this. Don't do this. Don't do this. And, you know, and I go consult with lawyers who are starting their practice all the time and say, do this, do this, do this, do this. Yeah. The the thing is is that it's it's Trump doesn't have time to mess with this himself.
Brett Johnson [:And that's true. He doesn't.
Steve Palmer [:And he doesn't wanna create another administrative swamp creature.
Brett Johnson [:And if he's not, as you pointed out, I'm I'm better with it.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. Private finance.
Brett Johnson [:I didn't realize that.
Norm Murdock [:So they are not government officials.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. That's
Norm Murdock [:right. That's right. And they're just gonna advise him.
Steve Palmer [:Right.
Brett Johnson [:Well, who's funding it? Who's funding? Who's gonna pay for it?
Norm Murdock [:Well, I think various corporations will donate. Okay. Yeah. I'm sure Elon
Steve Palmer [:Elon might just fund it himself.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. Which again itself is
Norm Murdock [:is a company. He
Brett Johnson [:is interesting.
Norm Murdock [:He is awesome. The world's richest man.
Brett Johnson [:Oh my god.
Steve Palmer [:I think it's awesome. I think look. Higher hire a guy like Elon who who's an efficiency expert, I think.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. He probably is.
Steve Palmer [:And say, look. Fix this shit. Yeah. Right. Fix this.
Brett Johnson [:Or give give me some wise moves.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. Very safe. That's right.
Brett Johnson [:You know, that I can say this this privately funded organization advised to do that. I make sense. No. No.
Steve Palmer [:I happen to know it, like, in the Ohio government, like, in in, like, the Department of Public Safety. There's, like, hundreds of lawyers. I don't know what the hell they do. Oh. You know, they all make a $125,000 a year. They got full benefits. They do whatever. And some of my folks might so I'm not advocating for you folks to get fired.
Steve Palmer [:But come on. What are we doing?
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. DeWine loves to spend our tax money. We our taxes in Ohio should be much lower than they are. It's it's really terrible. You know, we are an overly
Brett Johnson [:taxed state.
Steve Palmer [:We have a huge government swamp. It it's huge.
Norm Murdock [:It's enormous. Enormous.
Steve Palmer [:And every time you open up every time I get a see, I'm on LinkedIn, and I get these job Oh, god. Notices from the and, like, there's 3 or 4 attorney general jobs open all the time to go be a lawyer for the AG. And, look, I I look. I love all you guys. I love all my AG friends, but we don't need more.
Brett Johnson [:No. No. Don't add to your Christmas card list, please. Need more.
Norm Murdock [:Well, let's get into some of these appointments that or nominations, I should say. And they maybe end up being, you know, recess appointments.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. Yeah. We can buzz through this real quick.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. So RF you want me to just read them off?
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. We got RFK.
Norm Murdock [:RFK at Health and Human Services. Pete Hegseth, secretary of defense.
Steve Palmer [:Boy, he drew a lot of criticism, didn't he? He sure did.
Brett Johnson [:That's an interesting yeah. But the little background he has in the military, but I don't I mean, that I don't know if that's a bad thing.
Norm Murdock [:He's got 20 years.
Steve Palmer [:He's got 20 years. 20 years in military. Active duty. Well And he was a commenter on Fox, I think.
Norm Murdock [:He is a double bronze star winner for combat. I missed all that.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. He alright.
Steve Palmer [:I missed it. Okay. The reason you missed it is because
Brett Johnson [:they don't wanna
Steve Palmer [:get it in the media. The other side of media is like,
Brett Johnson [:this guy's just a newscaster.
Steve Palmer [:He's got
Norm Murdock [:no attention
Steve Palmer [:span. Fox. Right.
Brett Johnson [:That's a big crime. And they hate him. Anyway
Norm Murdock [:yeah. But no. No. No. Tulsi Gabbard, director of National Intelligence. The, Mike Waltz, Green Beret, congressman, from Texas, national security adviser. Christy Noem, Department of Homeland Security.
Steve Palmer [:Which is really the border Yep.
Norm Murdock [:At this point. Lee Zeldin, representative to the UN. Matt Gaetz, attorney general. Vivek and the Elon, we talked about. John Ratcliffe, head of the CIA. And Marco Rubio, secretary of state.
Steve Palmer [:Look. I think this is a great no. The the other side hates these people.
Brett Johnson [:Well and and the moaning and groaning of, I guess, from the press going, well, why isn't he have a press conference to justify these appointments? Like, he doesn't have. I don't get that.
Steve Palmer [:I have to There is advice and consent of the senate. Right?
Norm Murdock [:There there's going to be
Steve Palmer [:a national press conference.
Brett Johnson [:So why is he fighting it in front of the press before they're going through it? No.
Steve Palmer [:But you know what I mean?
Brett Johnson [:And I'd say that if a Democrat was there. No.
Steve Palmer [:He the press I noticed a couple things. It's like there's a little bit the the media has been declawed here a little bit because Trump did win the national vote, and they they they're sort of stuck with that. You know? It's like they don't get to say he's cramming this stuff down. Now the the one controversy there, not the one, but the even on both sides, the one that people sort of raise their eyebrows is Matt Gaetz. Yeah. And, why
Brett Johnson [:why do I see Donny Osmond every time I see him?
Norm Murdock [:He looks He is a guy
Brett Johnson [:I don't know why.
Norm Murdock [:He is a guy before Mike before Mike Johnson got elected as, you know, speaker of the house. He's a guy that caused, what was it, 47 47 ballots Yeah. Before they could get you know, because Kevin McCarthy troublemaker. Yeah. Yeah. Remember that whole thing? Yeah. So he was a leader
Steve Palmer [:He's a troublemaker. Of that
Brett Johnson [:is a troublemaker.
Norm Murdock [:And he's a disruptor.
Steve Palmer [:And I and disruptor is the word I was looking for. And he blown stuff up. He didn't need to blow up at a time that I think the house needed a little bit of, of continuity as opposed to what he was doing. Now I I heard the other side of this, from all people, Charlie Kirk. I heard the other side of this, and he made a good argument. He goes, you know, Trump's entitled to have his back. He's entitled to put people in place. They're gonna protect him after 10 years now of of of the insiders coming after him Right.
Steve Palmer [:Using Lawfare now.
Norm Murdock [:Right.
Steve Palmer [:He's entitled to have a guy that's got his back, and I can't argue with that. Yeah. I I can't really argue with that. Now I don't know is I don't know Matt Gaetz's qualifications. I went to, I think, William and Mary Law School. Am I right about that? But he went to a law school, and he's a lawyer, and he's practiced. I guess he was a decent lawyer, and he did something politically to get his job now.
Norm Murdock [:Ran for Congress.
Steve Palmer [:Ran for Congress. So, you know, my first pause was like, boy, he's the guy who disrupted all the house, speaker of the house problems.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:And, but then I got to thinking about it. It's like, you know what? He's just not a deep state guy. So we're a little bit, like
Norm Murdock [:Freaked out.
Steve Palmer [:It's a little bit different. Yeah. And maybe that's a good thing.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. And Trump can and as any president can, you can fire your appointees in any way.
Steve Palmer [:You can fire him.
Brett Johnson [:So it's not like it's their lifers. And he will. And it's not like exactly. It's not like they're lifers. I mean, it'll change.
Norm Murdock [:So, one part of the constitution going back to constitution, I think I don't know. Yeah. I'm gonna get this wrong. But I think it's like section 2, paragraph 3. The president has the right to, oh, hey. Did I lose that? Okay. The president has the right to, dismiss congress, if he wants to. He can, put them into what he calls recess.
Norm Murdock [:He has that power under the constitution. And Obama appointed 31 members of his cabinet or high government officials that the senate would have to advise and consent. He was allowed supreme court ruled on this. He was allowed to make 31 of those appointments recess appointments. Those are good for 2 years. And a lot of people think since Trump's agenda is gonna have to get done in 2 years. Right? Right. Because once we run into the midterms
Brett Johnson [:It'll change.
Norm Murdock [:He's a lame duck. Yeah. And, you know It always it just is that way. Is that way. Yeah. So a lot of people are saying if a gate's like that if he can't get appointed during regular business, that what Thune would do was would be to tell Trump, hey. Just recess us and appoint him. Wow.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. So you're talking about article 2, section 2, clause 3. The president shall have the power to fill up all vacancies that may happen during the recess by of the senate by granting commissions, which shall expire at the end of the next session, at the end of their next session. And, you know, this there's some great history. I was just talking about this on my other podcast with the law students. It's like, go back and and go back and study the transition of power between Adams and Jefferson. And what was going on in society is very similar to what's happening now. Okay.
Steve Palmer [:Very similar. Down to the media They hated each other. The other side. I mean and these these were the, quote, Federalists and the Democratic Republicans. And it don't don't take those terms to mean anything about the current parties. Right. But they are sort of the precursors to the parties, and then some have crossed over in various things they they used to believe in. But it's fascinating history.
Steve Palmer [:They hated each other. And one of the big controversies was this, was, Adams goes out and appoints a bunch of people
Norm Murdock [:Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:Called the midnight judges and a bunch of justices of the peace. And Yeah. And then that that led to John Marshall, who was also Adams' appointee for the, chief justice of the US Supreme Court, to decide the landmark case of Marbury versus Madison for those geeks out there, like, I am the law of the constitution. That created something called judicial review. So that is why the Supreme Court now has the platform to strike down laws of Congress. It's not in the constitution they can do it. It's not not in the constitution. Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:But Marshall did that. Yeah. But go back and study this history, folks, and it it'll tell you a few things. It'll tell you that we survived it then.
Norm Murdock [:We should we should mention that that the Adams and Jefferson thing. So they died on the same day.
Steve Palmer [:The same day. And they became friends.
Brett Johnson [:And they be pen pals.
Norm Murdock [:As after they left office, they were pen pals, but there was still that edge. And I forget which one asked their nurse the day that he was dying. You know, is Adam still alive?
Steve Palmer [:He says, like, Adams he goes, you're the last one. Somebody told, Adams that he's the last one. He goes, no. Thomas survives, and he didn't know Thomas died the same day. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Pretty pretty it gives me chills thinking about it.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. When you think The book by David McCullough.
Steve Palmer [:David McCullough talks about that. Yes.
Brett Johnson [:Great Well, McCullough does great books.
Norm Murdock [:He does great comic books.
Steve Palmer [:My gosh.
Brett Johnson [:That's that that whole drama Yeah. Is encapsulated in that book. That's a great read.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. It's a great read. And, you know, in those in those letters back and forth, they talk about some of the regrets they have. And one of them was that I just regret we couldn't kill slavery. It's like Yeah. Like, it shows you how forethinking these guys really were. And this is why I always make the argument. People say we were founded on, slavery, and it's a
Brett Johnson [:nation. God.
Steve Palmer [:And I say, no. We were found the nation was founded despite slavery. Yeah. And we fixed it in, you know, how many years later? Almost a 100 years later
Brett Johnson [:Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:In the in the civil war. And, you know, 600,000 people died.
Norm Murdock [:You could argue that the founding fathers put the time bombs into the constitution that led to the end
Brett Johnson [:of slavery.
Steve Palmer [:They knew. Yeah. They
Norm Murdock [:they set it up.
Steve Palmer [:They knew. And even
Norm Murdock [:the last 3 fifths of a person thing
Steve Palmer [:Not all of them. Right?
Norm Murdock [:Was was to was to deny the southern, slave states more power. Because if you would have counted each slave as a whole person, they would have had more congressmen and they would have been able to, for instance, force Kansas to become a slave state. So the idea of 3 fifths of a person was to help end slavery. And people cite that as, well, that's proof that you thought black people were only worth 3 fourths 3 fifths of a white per no, you dummy. That's not what it was for.
Steve Palmer [:It reflects how polarized the debate was on slavery in this country.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:And because it's polar, it doesn't mean by definition, that means that there were two sides to this. There were people who were clinging to it and people who vehemently wanted it gone.
Norm Murdock [:That's right.
Steve Palmer [:And it is gone. Yeah. Thank god. It's gone. Yeah. And at the expense of a lot of lives, it's gone.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. And our first president was the only president that liberated his, plantation slaves.
Steve Palmer [:I think he tried to. But
Norm Murdock [:No. No. He he he on his on
Steve Palmer [:his deathbed. On his deathbed. Yeah. I I thought he tried to do
Norm Murdock [:this to see. In his, in his will. Yeah. And Martha honored that.
Steve Palmer [:Well, look. We, we've gotta go. We we did our justice for all already. We talked about the Trump case. We'll call that justice for all. Let's go to, wonderfully outrageous things. Norm, what do you got?
Norm Murdock [:Well, my outrage for the day is this revelation that FEMA
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. That's mine too.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. Oh, yeah. Okay. Good. So so we were thinking the same thing. Well, jump in. FEMA had this lady who who's now been discharged, been fired, laid off, whatever. She's been making the media rounds explaining that FEMA had a orders from above and that as a good soldier, she was simply following orders a little bit like the Nuremberg Nazi defense.
Norm Murdock [:And what this order was is if you see, Trump memorabilia, Trump signs, whatever, you you can bypass that home because there's a pattern according to the upper FEMA people who have yet to be identified who who set this policy that there is some kind of pattern that FEMA determined was open hostility, possible danger to the personnel of FEMA to go and and interact with Trump people. So this lady said in North Carolina, South Carolina, and Georgia, this order was in effect. And she said, I am by no means the only FEMA person who
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. There's a whistleblower.
Norm Murdock [:Who put out this little memo that other people got a hold of. Insane. It's insane.
Steve Palmer [:It's insane. Wow. Yeah. So if you're if you're flying a Trump flag, which is about more than half the country, it it appears.
Norm Murdock [:Well, especially he took Western North Carolina in the after Helene
Steve Palmer [:skip you because they under the guys that they're oh, these are crazy people, so we can't it just shows you. Oh my god. It shows you the how how ideologically these people are tied to their emotions. And, you know, we hate this guy so much. We built him into Hitler. We built him into this awful thing. So everybody who voted for him is also a Nazi or garbage as Biden said. And I think these people believe it.
Steve Palmer [:I think on some level, there are people who believe this. Yeah. And it is, it it manifests itself in things like this.
Brett Johnson [:I mean, what talk about a missed opportunity Wow. To okay. So you see a flag outside of a home and go help them.
Steve Palmer [:How about a handshake?
Brett Johnson [:How about that?
Steve Palmer [:Great point. That's a it's such a good point.
Brett Johnson [:What
Steve Palmer [:an opportunity.
Brett Johnson [:We're Americans. That's all there is
Steve Palmer [:to it.
Norm Murdock [:That's all that matters. Yes. Human being that needs Unbelievable. I don't care who you vote for.
Brett Johnson [:Missed opportunity to to go across the table and say, I don't care who you are. We gotta help you. Yep. Unbelievable.
Steve Palmer [:Or or to get to know the people behind this vicious evil empire that you've created in your head. It's like, it just shows you. It just shows you what happens It's
Norm Murdock [:a human being.
Steve Palmer [:When you celebrate, your identity to a group as opposed to an individual, then that's what happens.
Brett Johnson [:Well and and it's It's so easy for you to hear.
Norm Murdock [:If so, if I hate
Steve Palmer [:you because you voted for Trump, I don't care who you are.
Brett Johnson [:And whatever bible verse it is that, you know, what Jesus says, if they don't welcome you home, your home, your home, shake your the dust off your sandals
Steve Palmer [:and walk
Brett Johnson [:away. Okay. So with that person with the Trump flag doesn't want your help, you
Steve Palmer [:operate. You're exactly right.
Brett Johnson [:Go away.
Steve Palmer [:Okay. Right?
Brett Johnson [:They made the choice.
Norm Murdock [:Right.
Brett Johnson [:You know?
Steve Palmer [:Exactly right. And Christ and Christ would not have judged people this way. No. No. And did not judge people this way.
Norm Murdock [:Well, see, what this does, though, is is is since this needs to be investigated. So if there really if this lady is not making this up and there really was a FEMA wide policy, this explains a lot of stuff that the FBI's been doing. It explains that stuff IRS has been doing.
Steve Palmer [:This is why I like Charlie Kirk's argument on Matt Gaetz as the AG.
Norm Murdock [:He's gotta clean this up.
Steve Palmer [:Because he Trump has enemies, sworn enemies in the deep state. In the and by the deep state, I mean, the administrative state of government. The people that aren't elected.
Norm Murdock [:Okay.
Steve Palmer [:And these people, I think, ideologically, don't like Trump.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. Well, they don't like us.
Steve Palmer [:And
Norm Murdock [:And and by by that, I mean, wider speaking.
Steve Palmer [:Well, I I think that I think the intellects involved I I'm gonna give them a little bit of credit to know that those who vote for Trump, they're gonna call us useful idiots, or they just think we're stupid. Yeah. But the the people in those positions are against Trump. They're actively working against against Trump. Well, that's And this is why this is my something wonderful for Trump to come in and say, you know what? Middle finger, I'm putting my people in this time. I came in before sort of naively. I didn't realize what I was up against. Now I'm putting my people in.
Steve Palmer [:And you know what? That comes with a little bit of a of responsibility. He better succeed. Right?
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. Right. Right.
Steve Palmer [:So he's putting his people in. Theoretically, he knows better this time. He didn't leave the AGs. He now they like, all the people that were investigating, he left in.
Norm Murdock [:Right.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. Could've fired him. And instead, he's now he's now he knows better. He's bringing in his people. He's gonna push his agenda. And to me, it is a very diverse agenda. People are gonna hate that word, but I mean it. It's like Elon A lot.
Steve Palmer [:Just yesterday was a Democrat. Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:You know? RFK probably
Steve Palmer [:still is. Is a Democrat. Yeah. He probably still is. Gabbard is a Democrat.
Norm Murdock [:Well, she changed part of it.
Steve Palmer [:I get but, ideologically I'm
Norm Murdock [:with you.
Steve Palmer [:We have some diverse ideas
Norm Murdock [:No question.
Steve Palmer [:In the cabinet. And Right. Hats off. That's my something wonderful.
Norm Murdock [:Hats off.
Steve Palmer [:For the first time, we you look. They're gonna say these people are all traitors to their call, whatever. But they're coming in with a with a diverse mindset Right. To to actually roll up their sleeves like I have and fix things.
Norm Murdock [:Like the Department of Energy secretary, whoever that's gonna be, I could see Trump picking somebody like Joe Manchin, who's who's a former Democrat.
Steve Palmer [:I think
Norm Murdock [:he already
Steve Palmer [:picked somebody. I'm not wrong.
Norm Murdock [:Maybe so. Yeah. But but like Like, he would
Steve Palmer [:like, Manchin, he would pick a guy like Manchin, I think.
Norm Murdock [:He was a West Virginia coal governor.
Steve Palmer [:Knows this knows the
Norm Murdock [:Knows energy.
Steve Palmer [:Knows energy. So look. I mean, that I think is awesome. And you know what? We are I I feel like we are on the precipice of a great 4 years. I really do.
Norm Murdock [:What did Fetterman call all this? He called it godlike trolling. He said he said, Fetterman is getting really funny. These days. Senator Fetterman
Steve Palmer [:woke up.
Norm Murdock [:He woke up. He said, this is this is god level trolling by Trump against the Democrats. Yeah. I mean, he's laughing about it. He's just like, you know, wow, man. You're
Steve Palmer [:his cabinet.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. Give him this.
Brett Johnson [:One outrageous thing I have, and I know we're gonna talk about more about this, is, ex Ohio house speaker Larry Householder asking for clemency.
Steve Palmer [:Asking for clemency. Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:He'll never get it from DeWine.
Brett Johnson [:No way. I'm talking Trump. Oh. It's going all the way to Trump. Because they
Norm Murdock [:were federal.
Steve Palmer [:That was a federal case. Yeah. That's a federal that's a federal case.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. Better not touch that one.
Norm Murdock [:I don't think he will. I hope he won't.
Brett Johnson [:But just even even the gall of this guy Yeah. His lawyer suggesting, why don't you go ahead and ask? Why not? Get back in the news cycle. No.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. I mean, look. I was he's in prison. So you're gonna you're gonna
Brett Johnson [:I guess. But If
Steve Palmer [:I were in prison, I would be doing everything I should to get out.
Brett Johnson [:I guess. But, you know, but but it's his is more his prison is
Steve Palmer [:Prison is prison.
Norm Murdock [:I know. But you know what I mean?
Steve Palmer [:He wants out. He wants out.
Brett Johnson [:I mean, I get 20 well, 20 years in of life, you know, basically. But yeah.
Steve Palmer [:He might be, he might get a pardon or something on the way out. Who knows?
Norm Murdock [:But I'll turn
Steve Palmer [:it through.
Norm Murdock [:But So I got a wonderful one.
Brett Johnson [:But but my wonderful is yours as well too. Just like, okay. Let's I'm I'm optimistic all come together. I'm optimist that this is gonna be fine.
Steve Palmer [:Look. For those who hated Trump and called him Hitler, your people are in the cabinet, at least in part. You know, Tulsi's in the cabinet. Yeah. Now Hillary hated her. Elon.
Norm Murdock [:So my wonderful thing, you you guys are happily married. I'm a bachelor. Is this 4 b thing that the, the disappointed female progressives have done. And this was adopted from Korea where
Steve Palmer [:Oh, yeah. This is awesome.
Norm Murdock [:They they they they say they're not gonna have any kind of sex, especially with conservative men. They're not gonna have babies. They're not gonna get married. And and if they are married, they should seek a divorce. And I'm just here to say, as an available bachelor, that the recognition symbol for this philosophy is a blue wristband. Dude, I have about 12 blue wristbands at home in the kitchen.
Brett Johnson [:They're at
Norm Murdock [:I'm up for this. I'm up I am gonna be the most incredible progressive lefty
Steve Palmer [:Good for you.
Norm Murdock [:For a night.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. Yeah. Well, Clay and he advocating though they're advocating for Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:No sex. Oh divorce. Men. Yeah. Don't get me Yeah. Now Andrew Clavin Andrew Clavin had a great take on this. Like, our buddy Clavin, he was like, I forgot. I can't say it the way he said it because he's so good about it.
Steve Palmer [:But he was just like, that sounds like traditional values to me. Wait till you get married. Yeah.
Brett Johnson [:Right? Yeah. And, oh, you know, it's like, yeah.
Steve Palmer [:Great. Do more of that.
Norm Murdock [:There's actually a Greek, comedy. I mean, this goes back, like, 3000 year. Right? On the same exact They
Steve Palmer [:do the same thing.
Norm Murdock [:Where the women go on strike on a sex strike.
Brett Johnson [:It sounds like like Little Rascals are he man woman haters club. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's the reverse. It's the reverse.
Norm Murdock [:Right. So, gentlemen, get your blue wristbands. That's all I could say.
Steve Palmer [:Alright. Well, that is Common Sense. Ohio. We came at you live until 907 on, November 15, 2024. You can check us out at commonsense ohioshow.com where we are coming at you right from the middle each and every week, at least, until now.
