Welcome back to Lending Leadership: The Mortgage Pros—the podcast where we pull back the curtain on what it really takes to be a great leader in the mortgage industry.

In today’s episode, we shift gears and get personal, inviting you into a raw and unscripted discussion about one of the most pivotal transitions a mortgage leader can make: moving from top producer to branch leader. This week, we’re continuing to spotlight Robert Fillyaw. He shares his candid experiences, lessons learned, and hard-won advice on stepping away from his own production to build something bigger—for himself and his team.

You’ll hear why the journey from originator to leader isn't as simple as flipping a switch and why so many leaders face steep learning curves, hard financial realities, and surprising moments of growth along the way. We talk culture, team building, structuring your days, core operational KPIs, recruiting strategies, and, of course, surviving the lean years before the wins start to snowball. In true Lending Leadership style, we don’t shy away from the mistakes either—because that’s where the best learning happens.

Key Takeaways:

1. The Power of Purposeful Leadership: We emphasize, and Robert Fillyaw reminds us, that knowing your “why” is critical before making the leap from producer to leader. Passion is essential, but your purpose must be compelling enough to withstand the inevitable challenges—otherwise, you’ll revert to what’s safe and familiar.
2. Build and Align Your Team for Success: Surrounding yourself with the right people is non-negotiable. Robert credits much of his early success to having operational “rock stars” on his side. Alignment on vision, values, and goals among your core team is more important than early recruiting numbers.
3. The Reality Behind the Numbers: Profitability isn’t just about increasing volume. We talk openly about margin compression, unexpected losses, and the vital importance of operational metrics—like clear-to-close ratios and KPIs—alongside traditional production stats. Sustainability is all about running your branch like a real business.
4. Keep It Authentic—Always: In an industry full of hype and empty promises, authenticity and transparency win. Robert details how being honest (even when it’s tough) gives you staying power and attracts the right people to your organization. Word travels, so let your integrity differentiate your leadership style.
5. Scaling Requires Sacrifice—and Systems: We underline that real growth won’t happen without giving up some comforts. Whether it’s stepping away from production, letting go of long-standing relationships, or investing time in building the right systems, growth comes with trade-offs. The systems and support you put in place are what allow both you and your team to flourish.

Whether you’re just considering a big leadership move or you’re already knee-deep in the transition, this episode is packed with lessons, laughs, and a healthy dose of real talk about leadership in today’s mortgage world.

If you enjoyed the episode or want to share your own experiences, don’t forget to leave us a review, hit that like button, and reach out to us if you want to go deeper on any of these topics.

Robert, Tom, & Dave

You know, you're looking at profitability, how are we holding margin, how are we delivering? I mean, it, it really is so vastly different. And it was a steep learning curve because now you're, you're running a business.

I know how together, you know, we've all invested so much in ourselves to learn to be great leaders. You know, they're still learning today to be great leaders. But, you know, we, we've, we've spent many years, you know, investing ourselves into that and. But, you know, I don't think from day one you were that. Right? You definitely weren't that. And day one you had some leadership qualities about you. But, you know, I think one of the, you know, you talk about building a team, right? And any great team, wherever you're talking about sports or anything, there's a, there's a culture within, there's a, there's a belief, there's a. You know, as we, you guys know, our belief as leaders is to build an ecosystem that great people can thrive in and achieve great things.

You know. You know, so how did you, what were some of the things you did that, you know, not knowing how to be a leader? How did you start to build that ecosystem early on? Some things that made your team be winners. Really?

Yeah. I love that question. You know, I think it's surrounding yourself with, with leaders having good influences and people that, you know, have done it that I could lean into. You were one of those people, Tom. Like, I mean, when we look back on our history together, the first year, I think we recruited two people. Two or three people, right? Like, you look at 2018 and it's like, well, that's not very impressive. What's this guy trying to do? But then you fast forward and we're recruiting three people a week, right? Every week. And like, it just, it's a snowball effect.

So I think surrounding yourself with good leaders, you know, the, the coaching that I had was a big piece of it for me. I was, I was really blessed that operationally I had a few rock stars that were with me and aligned with me that could deliver on the promises that I made. And not only deliver, but were bought in and had the same goals and the same mentality on how we should do the business and what it should look like and what the originator experience should be. I think that's really important that, but that's back, that goes back to alignment, making sure that you're aligned with the right people. Like, if you're going to do this, you have to have the Big why? But then you also have to have the vision of how you're going to do it, what it's going to look like, what it's going to feel like, who's the right fit. And you've got to get the people that surround you on board with that vision and bought in and row in the same way. Right. When you do that, it, it, it's not easy.

But, you know, now, now you're not on an island either. You're not alone.

Let's talk tactical stuff and ideas. How'd you structure your days differently once production was off your plate? Right, because that's, I mean, I know you were always leading a branch, but when you really focused on building a large branch and other locations not in Gainesville, once you got that production off your plate, that was probably half your day. So what did you do? You probably had to start doing tasks that were a little more uncomfortable.

Yeah, absolutely. You know, so some of the things that backfilled that time were obviously recruiting, right? Having recruiting conversations, cold calling, you know, whatever, just pipeline management of the recruiting. So a lot of that filled the time. But, you know, now I, I was maybe a little different situation than a lot of people may end up in. I had pretty much full autonomy. So, you know, some of it was operationally being involved in, you know, setting policy and procedure of how our branch is going to operate. You know, looking at metrics and key performance indicators to. To be able to coach and develop.

A lot of it was leaning in and coaching the originators who had kind of, you know, tied their horse to my wagon or their wagon to my horse. I guess it's their wagon of my horse, coaching and developing them, looking at, you know, the structure of their team and helping to grow it and develop it. So, yeah, it definitely takes on different aspects of just the origination piece every morning for a good while. Dave, probably the first 18 months, I still did a daily huddle with my, my team that was doing my business just to make sure I had my thumb on everything. Right, because you, you still. I still wasn't fully away from it, but just to make sure there were no fires and was everything going all right? And, you know, have we heard from this agent lately? Is. Is there any agents that we haven't heard from that I need to schmooze and pick up the phone and give a call? And I think as you're transitioning, it's not flipping a light switch. You can't go from one to the other.

You have to do that.

You need the income, right?

You need the income.

Yeah.

Gotta have the income over time, right? That changes and it goes more to. You're not doing that to. It's more focused on your originators and the recruiting and the growth of the branch to now. Right. Like fast forward before we came together. Even before we came together like well now. I mean, so before we came together, my team still ran, but I didn't meet with them anymore. They would come to me if there was a problem, but they basically ran and then 100 of my time was devoted outside of them.

Now that we're here, I don't have a team anymore. The, the guy that ran my team is basically an originator on his own at this point. And there is no fill y' all mortgage team.

Right.

Which is, which is totally cool because I've built something bigger and better and stronger that I'm more proud of.

What were some of the metrics that you looked at early on to guide our listeners? You know, besides calls made, team members in production, what else were you looking at on a day to day basis as you grew your larger branch and scaled?

On the lo side, it's you know, on everything.

The branch side, lo side, just everything. What'd you look at?

Yeah, I mean on the lo side it's you know, credit pools, apps, all the metrics you would think of closings, activities, really important. You know, how many calls are you making? Are you working your database? Are you, you know, all of that stuff we tracked and we would use as a tool to help grow. Right? Because you got to remember the people that we're building these relationships with. And, and this is one thing I love about our company. We don't, not just anyone gets to come in the door. Right. You're here because you want to go from A to D, E, F, whatever that business plan for yourself is. You're here because you want to grow.

So when we start making measuring KPIs and holding you accountable to them and pressing you on them, that's what you want. That's why you're here, that's why you've aligned with us. So it, it was all of that on the branch side, you know, you're looking at, at for me because I had the autonomy, I'm looking at different operational metrics. Right. Clear to close success ratio was a big one because I've got to be able to deliver operationally on the promises that I've made to originators. Otherwise you bring them in the door and they go right back out. Right. You're only as good as your back room in this business.

I believe that till I die. You know, you're looking at profitability. How are we holding margin? How are we delivering? I mean, it. It really is so vastly different. And it was a steep learning curve because now you're. You're running a business. You're running a business inside of a business, especially if you're on a P and L. I remember telling Tom, you know.

It'Ll be fun.

They said, Well, I remember that because we opened it and margin compression hit and every pro forma we ran went right out the damn window.

2018 was not a good year. Listen.

Not a good year. You want, like, you want vulnerability. We had. We had projected that I was going to go, I think I was going to bleed 200 grand right in the red on the opening and the guarantees. And, you know, anytime you open a branch, for those of you who may not know, there's a bleed, there's you. You spend money before revenue comes in.

200 grand is modest. That. That's not. Yeah, that's not awful.

That's not awful, right?

Yeah.

I was going to be in the black in four months, and then the numbers look great and everything was going to be awesome. So fast forward to November right now. I'm 11 months in. I'm 750,000 in the red and no end in sight. And I'm like, the hell are we doing? Right?

You were still hitting the production on the performer, though.

Still hitting the production. The production wasn't the problem. It was the problem that the margin that we were supposed to make on the production went out the window because of compression. Yeah.

Everybody in the business felt it that year.

Right. I just. And. But I. I didn't have the reserves or the like. And I'm learning. I remember telling Tom, like, the first P. L.

I got, like, I'm a smart guy, right? I balance the checkbook, I run my finances. But the first piano I got, like, the hell is going on here? What are all these? Like, like, trying to get the forecasting and all of that. Like, it was a learning curve for sure, you know?

You know, I think you mentioned, like, the first year May recruited two los. But a lot of conversations that first year, right? And as you know, this is a long game. It's a. It's a very long game. A long sales cycle in recruiting, sometimes years, you know, so, you know, what do you think it was like, you know, that built that momentum? Like, because once it started clicking and more stories were created, it Felt like they were just, you know, we were growing the team, you know, really, really fast. You know, what do you think, what do you think led to that, like, momentum and, and you know, why it catapulted from there?

Well, I think, I think it was a lot of effort. I think it was a lot of the dials and the connections and the, the seeds that were planted. You know, I think when you do that, then people, you're not on their radar and you get on their radar and they start, you know, kind of keeping an eye and seeing what's happening. So then when they do that, they start seeing the results and they start seeing the stories of the people who, who did, you know, come over. That's more of that past predicts future. Like we, we love when we recruit someone and we double their business. Right. Like, that's not only because we have fulfilled what we've talked about, but honestly it's because now I have the story to tell to the next person and the next person and the next person.

And so it's definitely, you know, it's definitely a lot of that. I think, I think a big piece of it too though, dude, is like, there's a lot of bullshit in our industry and there's a lot of lack of leadership and there's a lot of just car salesmany douchery and, and I was never any of that. It was authentic.

People, people, straight up. Why straight up, straight up lie.

We're talking to a guy right now and the, the stuff that another company is telling him is a straight up lie. Complete, total. And they're trying to spin it like we're lying. And I'm like, numbers don't lie, bro. And, and I, I've told people, like, I'll say this a hundred times, my word is everything. Like, if I blow smoke, you're going to see through it in 37 seconds of landing here. It does me no good. Yeah.

So that, just that authenticity and that transparency, it resonated with people and it still does, you know, so you couple that with, you're seeing all the, the growth and the things that are happening with, you know, the operational success and getting things closed and, you know, not being all this bureaucracy quagmire of, you know, you got to do it this way because I said not, not having an ego, like really being that servant leader. What, where do you want to go? What do you want to do with your business? How can I help you? Like, I think all of that plays into it. It's not any one thing it's, it's the, you know, it's the, the ecosystem that all of that stuff together builds.

Mm. I know when I moved out of production and into, you know, stop, stop producing loans for my income, I definitely made some mistakes with that. You know, when you look back, what are some of the things you think you did wrong that you'd do differently? Just your advice to those looking to make that change, like, do this, don't do this. What do you got for us here?

Wait, let me sit down. I am sitting down. Okay, go ahead, Robert.

I mean, there's a lot. I screwed up a lot, right? Let's be real.

Tell our listeners so they don't make the same mistakes.

Yeah. So I, I would have had more money saved. I can tell you that off the bat. That's, that's never a bad answer. Right. I would have, would have had more money saved, stocked away and kind of ready. I would have done a few things different. You know, as I was exiting, I, I would have played a little cleaner on some of the exits that, that I did.

You know, I honestly, I think looking back, I would have probably held on to my personal production a little longer. I. Let me. Why is that?

For income?

No, not for income. Let me rephrase it. I would have stayed, I would have stayed engaged with the agents that I had long term relationship with. Longer and maybe even into perpetuity. Yeah, I, I would have carved out the time and like this comes back to kind of the all or nothing mentality. Like, I would, I, looking back, I would have carved out an hour a week to stay engaged with those agents and make sure that they were still engaged with my team. Because frankly, I've lost some agents that I did business with for years just because, you know, whatever reason, they didn't. You moved on to bigger things.

You know, I moved on to bigger things. I wasn't there asking for the business. They didn't feel the connection. Right. Which is warranted and valid. It's completely warranted and valid. But had I done that, what, what greater level of success success would we have had? What, like, if that business was still coming in, right? Like I was doing 30 loans a month. If I would have retained half of that, that's another 15 loans a month coming in.

That's massive.

Knowing now what you know, Right. Could you have made that switch, grew your team originators and growing your personal production at the same time? Do you think you could have accomplished that today? If you were doing this today, could you accomplish that?

No, I don't I don't think you could have grown your personal production. I think the personal product, it's, it's what I just said. Right. But could, could I have maintained. I have maybe retained half of it? I think probably. But the flip side of this, right, that we haven't talked about is the work life balance aspect. Because I was grinding so hard and everything else, I would have done it, but I would have been back to a, you know, 70 hour work week.

Sure, that's true.

60 hour work week instead of the 40, 45.

Yeah. So it was sacrifices along the way.

Right.

You have to give some things up.

Everyone has that season in their life, though. There, there's, there's work years, there's grind years. Like I, I've. We're all back in it right now. We're working so hard. We're all doing 60 hours a week. That's not where we want to live, though. And there's only, so.

There's only so much you can do. You were already burned out rolling into it, Robert, so.

Well, 2024 is a working year, you know. You know, there's, there's just times in this business you learn that, you know, you can have balance, but there's just times that, you know, you're, hey, buckle up. We're going to get a little off balance right now. You know, it's just how this business is.

Yeah, I think, I think, I think the burnout, I love it. There's nothing else I'd rather do. I think the burnout, you know, being removed from it now, Dave, I think it's, it's how quickly we forget of, you know, of what it really was. And, But I think, I think that's a big part of it, right? I was burnt out and honestly, just. But I mean, even, even now there's times I see you, Dave, and I get a little jealous. I'm like, crap, I could pick up the phone and go schmooze some agents and bring some business in the door. Maybe I should do that, you know.

Don't be too jealous. Don't be too jealous.

Well, look, as we, as we kind of come to an end, wrap some things up. Let's give some actionable stuff here, right? Let's say you're a branch manager heading in. One of your aspirations in this year is to start to shift, start to make the shift. Not overnight, but start to make the shift. Right. And start to grow your team. Give me two to three things you would focus on in this next 12 months to really Move the needle towards that.

Yeah, I mean, I, you know, I think I've said it. This is the fourth or fifth time now. Like you, you better know why you're doing it and it better be a damn good why. That's gonna keep you committed to coming out on the other side. If it's not big enough, I'm telling, I'm telling you, I've seen it happen. If it's not big enough, you are going to move away from it and go back to what you know. So you better, you better know your why. You better have the systems built.

You better have. Like you, I think you need to probably be at a place where you can go away for three or four days without a laptop and just have your phone and your team calls you once or twice and, and it runs to that level. If, if you're there, you're probably ready, right? Because when you bring these people on that are entrusting you with their career and their livelihoods, you have to be all in for them. And that's, that's where most sales. That's where, you know, we take most top producers and we make them a sales manager and they're still producing. Well, in most cases, for those of you who may not know this, if they're making an override off of you, in most cases, it takes anywhere from 8 to 12 of your loans for them to equal 1 of their loans. In terms of what? In terms of compensation. Right.

So the juice isn't worth the squeeze. Like the just go out and get another loan. They'll just go out and take care of their pipeline. So that's where, that's why your why has to be big enough. The systems have to be in place because when you recruit these people, you have to be there and 100% focused on them to help them grow and build or else they're just going to go out the other side.

Well said, brother. Well said. Good stuff today. Love the blueprint. Couple, couple action items and a couple things to kind of think about if you're really looking to kind of make a switch within your career and head in a different direction. But it's not, it's not for everybody. Is. Is one of the messages that was clear here.

Two, two words of advice. And Robert, you can echo this, and I think we've said it on a prior podcast, our number one rule is we don't hire loan officers and operations people. And number two, if you are recruiting the branch, don't try to recruit a bunch of loan officers doing one or two transactions a month. Easy to recruit, hard to scale on it and you will lose your mind. Those are two takeaways I'd give our listeners.

Listen, not just lose your mind, you'll lose your ass in terms of profitability. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Great stuff guys. Thanks so much for putting me in the spotlight finally. I think this, I think we'll all agree this is better than Dave's. So listen if you're, if you're out there and you tuned in let me know which one you liked better. Drop us a line, let us know. Make sure you smash that like button.

Leave us that that great review and if you're wanting to have a conversation about what this might look like or just looking for any coaching or anything at all, reach out to us. For Tom Mills and Dave Holland, I'm Robert Filyaw with the Lending Lending leadership with the Mortgage Pros. Thanks so much.

Thanks everyone.

Thanks all.

Sam.