Welcome back to Lending Leadership: The Creative Brief, where we dig into stories, strategies, and the moments that shape leadership in the mortgage and lending industries.

This week, we’re diving back into storytelling with the brilliant Will Greenblatt, picking up where last episode left off. If you joined us for Part One, you know that Will is a master of helping leaders use narrative to connect, drive change, and be remembered. In Part Two, we unpack the “Three Act Origin Story”—Will’s unique take on a classic storytelling framework designed for leaders who want to bring structure, emotion, and authenticity to their professional stories.

So many of us struggle to explain what we do (and why it matters!) without sounding like a walking LinkedIn headline. In this conversation, Rachael, Corinne, and Will get real about how to share your background, struggles, and aha moments in ways that invite empathy and spark conversations within your teams.

Here’s what we discussed:

• The Three Act Origin Story: what it is, how it works, and why starting with childhood is such a gamechanger.
• How sharing your real, sometimes vulnerable, truth is the opposite of weakness—it's the path to connection and leadership credibility.
• How to structure your story with just enough details to create empathy, without jumping the timeline or overwhelming your audience.
• Will Greenblatt
• ’s storytelling coaching in action: listen in as
• Corinne Bibb
• shares her background and experience, and we reflect on what makes our stories relatable at work (and why you might want to skip talking present-day specifics when you’re building the scene).
• The beauty and challenge of embracing the “I don’t know what I want to be when I grow up” mindset, especially as a leader in a fast-moving industry.

Key takeaways:

1. Start at the Human Level: By anchoring any story in childhood, we tap into our shared humanity. Childhood is an “equalizer,” creating connection even when backgrounds are wildly different. That “baby picture effect” softens our perspective and reminds us everyone starts somewhere.
2. Chronology Builds Transport: To deeply engage your listeners, let your narrative follow a chronological arc. Don’t jump back and forth to present-day facts—keep us in that moment, and watch empathy and curiosity grow.
3. Vulnerability Is Your Superpower: Sharing the truths you’re hesitant to say (like not being sure what you want to be when you grow up) is exactly what draws people in. If it feels risky, it’s probably resonant—your audience feels the tightrope, and that’s where leadership trust is built.
4. Context Creates Clarity: Even small details—like sibling dynamics or socioeconomic background—offer critical context to your journey. They’re often more interesting and memorable than job titles or resume bullet points.
5. You Don’t Need a Perfect Aha Moment: Not everyone has a dramatic turning point or a grand “why” behind their choices. Admitting you don’t know, or that some things developed organically, is just as valid. What matters is honestly naming those moments and the questions they raise.

We left off on a tantalizing note: next episode, Will Greenblatt goes even deeper into real-time coaching, helping Rachael and Corinne Bibb shape their stories for maximum connection and clarity. This trilogy is a must-listen for anyone looking to rehumanize their leadership narrative and make meaningful connections in (and out of) the workplace.

Pull up a seat, grab a pen, and get ready for more storytelling magic next week on Lending Leadership: The Creative Brief!

Rach & Rinn

Hey, everybody. Welcome back to lending leadership. If you caught part one last week with Will Greenblatt, we were talking about storytelling, and this guy gets storytelling. We barely scratched the surface last time, but it was so good we had to keep it going. So today we're diving into part two of our storytelling series, and this one is all about our three act origin story. This is Will's brilliant framework for bringing structure, emotion, heart, all the good stuff into your story in a way that people actually connect with it and remember. So if you're someone who has struggled to explain what you do without sounding like a robot or a LinkedIn headline, then this is the episode for you. Let's dive right in.

So after that sobering detour into the dystopian future we're heading towards, let's look backwards and let's look at. Yeah, let's look at the three act origin story, the structure. So, Corinne, you basically nailed it. I'm just going to give you the language that I use for it. It's not like I invented the three act structure. It's not like I invented this kind of shape. I just gave my own twist to it based on the way I was telling my story. And so I call it Act 1 is childhood origin, Act 2 is youth awakening, and Act 3 is adult choice.

And then sometimes there's a bonus epilogue, depending on the situation you're in. But I found the epilogue can be kind of cool.

Oh, one more time. So, Childhood Origin.

Childhood Origin. Youth Awakening. Adult Choice.

Take notes, listeners. Write it down. Good session.

And this trips people up sometimes because youth awakening doesn't mean it had to happen in your youth. It just means it's the middle point of the story. So I work with some people who are in their 60s or 70s, and they go, well, I've had like seven careers. How am I supposed to choose? Like, my youth awakening was like, not relevant anymore. And I just go, well, you, you just find the one that makes sense for the story you're telling now. So, you know, if your, your youth awakening could have happened last year, where you finally realized you wanted to quit this, that your old career, and start your new one. So that's your youth awakening, maybe. So, you know, these are just ways of thinking about beginning, middle, and end.

So childhood origin. We talked about this earlier. Why do you guys think we should start in the childhood?

Well, I mean, I know I'm not a psychologist, but I feel like I've heard enough from psychologists that there's a lot that happens to you in your childhood. That then affects your later life, whether it's conscious or subconscious, your relationships, your environment, your experiences. You know, I think that might be why we're starting there. That's my guess.

Yeah. I mean, that's the main reason. To me, I touched on the other reason, but, Rachel, do you. Do you remember what I said about that? The other reason why we would start in childhood?

Maybe I don't remember exactly what you said, but maybe because we've all been children at some point.

Yeah, yeah. Everyone has. Yeah.

If you made it here, you had to have a start.

We were kids. Yeah, that's right. It's. It's a. It's an equalizing experience, childhood. I mean, obviously, no one. Not everyone had the same childhood, but everyone was a child and. And a tiny person in a big world.

They do a lot of work in therapy on, like, inner child work. And it may sound a bit kind of wacky to some people, but I've done a bit of it myself, and it's pretty powerful. Just of, like, going back and remembering yourself as a child, trying to honor so many of the reasons why you are the way that you are is because of, you know, things that happened to you as a child. And. And there's a lot of forgiveness that comes from that. There's a lot of compassion for other people that comes from that. So that's a big part of it, too, is like, I saw Donald Trump's child picture the other day, and full disclosure, I don't like that guy. You can cut this if you want to keep this apolitical, but even seeing his picture, a guy who I'm, like, sick of hearing about, I don't like at all.

I saw his childhood picture. I'm like, he's a human being. Like, it just struck me, like, even, you know, it's easy to paint him into a monster. And, you know, a lot of the he does is awful, but he's still a human. And we all have to, like, wrestle with that. A human being can be this figure, but. But they are not unhuman. They are human, and we have to realize that.

So when we see each other's baby pictures, we just soften towards one another and we just go, oh, oh, man. Yeah. Because then it's like getting mad at a child in a way. And so you just, you just, you. You relax and I call it the baby picture effect. I have no science to back this up, but I feel like when you see someone's baby picture, you. You. You soften towards them and you feel More familiar and.

And even loving, in a way, towards them.

Okay, so baby picture, insert here.

Corinne. Oh, that would be great. I have a 5 baby pictures I can find.

Well, yeah, we're gonna pop it in right here.

That's cool, right?

You can go baby or you can go just, you know, child. Like, when I do my workshop, I usually start them with myself at, like, 6 years old, wearing a Blue Jays hat, because I'm like, you know, the Blue Jays was a big part of my childhood memories. But it's. It's not infant picture, like, baby picture. It's like childhood. Childhood picture. Okay, so basically, when we think about the childhood origin, we want to think about this as, like a snapshot of your beginnings, because that matters. As we've.

For all the reasons we've just talked about, the reason you are the way that you are is in large part due to where you were. You're born. The type of family you were born into, the type of neighborhood you were born into, the country and the city you were born into, the social class you were born into, the economic class. Like, all of these things will shape a human being. So if we just get a quick snapshot of that for the story, it really helps us understand a bit more about you. So let's do this with you guys real quick. One or two sentences or three or four, but, like, just brief for now. What's your snapshot, Corinne? Like, city, family? Where are you from?

Okay. Suburbs. Bucks county, outside of Philadelphia. Middle class, exactly as you described. Comfortable enough, but not at any means or stretch as wealthy. Grew up in an area that was a lot wealthier than my family was.

Gotcha. Yeah.

Two parents that are still married and alive today, and an older brother and a nice suburban house in the suburbs.

Okay, you wanted me to say two.

Or three sentences, so I didn't go any further.

That's lovely. So already, Rachel, if I turn it to you, I assume you kind of knew that more or less about Corinne, or is that. Is any of that new information more or less?

I mean, probably not the nitty gritty, but, like, I knew the general area because we live in the same general area, but that's pretty much it.

Did. Did the thing of. Of Corinne saying that she grew up middle class, comfy, but not wealthy, and definitely not as wealthy as the people surrounding her. Was that new information to you, or at least deeper than maybe you'd heard it said?

Yeah, because that's not something you really talk about as adults. Like, oh, what is your social setting? What was your Parents, tax bracket, growing up.

Yeah, really?

And isn't that interesting? Because to me, that was the most interesting part because that's the human part. That's the. That we're getting into emotions. We're getting into. Oh, how. How does that feel? And I, I've. And. And the great thing is when you get emotional, when you talk about the emotional impact of a story, or you.

Or you go into something that is kind of clearly has an emotional impact, people just start going, either, yes, me too. Or, wow, I. I've never thought about it before. And both are very valuable to an audience. So. Yeah, that's beautiful. Corinne and I really like that. Now, here's a little trick.

This is just a storytelling tactic.

Okay.

If you say two parents who. Who are married and who are both still married and alive today, in a funny way, it's almost like giving away the ending.

Okay.

If you just talk about if your parents and you go, they're still alive today. It just takes us out of the time of the story.

So you suggest not doing that, or is that what you're saying?

I wouldn't do that. Because you're jumping ahead in time and it takes us from imagining you in the past, and it brings us to present day and it. And it destroys the spell.

Okay, so don't take anyone to present day. Like, keep them real.

Unless there's a real reason to. Like. Stories should generally follow chronology, especially if we're not advanced storytellers, because that allows us to transport back in time as the audience.

I think I felt maybe for the sake of our discussion, well, like, I had to sum it up in two sentences. I mean, I have so much stuff I could share. Of course, we don't have enough time. Yeah.

That's a side note. That's not something I've even ever said before. But it's just a good point is that when you said, they're still together today, that just brought me to the present day. And I. And I left the suburbs outside of Philadelphia, and I came back to the. To the room. And we want story is about transport. The more effectively you transport your audience, the more powerful the experience is for them.

Okay, I love this.

Okay, Rachel, snapshot.

Okay. Grew up outside of Philadelphia in the suburbs, out in the middle of nowhere. Didn't know it at the time, growing up, but grew up pretty. Pretty well off. My dad actually didn't go to college, and I didn't realize that was a thing to not have gone to college, but had made it pretty big in finance and had Started on Wall street, and my brother is six and a half years younger than me. So I was an only child for a long time. And my parents kind of. Even though I don't think I was a great performer, singer at the time, you couldn't have told me.

I thought I was incredible. I thought I probably should have been on tv. Like, I was getting a Grammy Award, Oscar, every. Every turn. And so they were just very doting, loving parents. And I think that really gave me the confidence that I have today of just being out there and performative and silly and not caring what other people think.

Great. Okay. Awesome.

And just a side note, Will, she's really good, so she can say whatever she wants. The reason they were probably encouraging that is because she's really good.

Yeah, I wasn't, though.

I wasn't though. I have another part of that story.

That I get to that modest.

Well, this is always. The funny thing is like, yeah, the modesty versus, like, owning the thing. I, as a Canadian, I default to modesty. I don't want it to be false modesty, but I just, like, default to like, yeah, I was a. I was a professional actor, but I wasn't particularly good. And I say that, and then some people go, no, you were good, or whatever. And I'm just like, but you know that that's a personal choice. I.

I just. I also find that, like, stories are at their. Are at their best when they are vulnerable and stuff. And so whenever there is a storyteller who, Unless they're really good at writing the line, if they're like, I was a great singer, then it's kind of like, is this a brag story? Or is this a. You know. But I. I totally get your point, Corinne. And also to be able to step outside yourself and say, I was good, but I wasn't good enough to be the lead in the school musical or to, like, it's really powerful when you tell your story, to be able to look at yourself outside of yourself, and that's what helps you communicate it to another person.

So, Rachel, when you said, I didn't realize how well off I grew up, a lot of people who grew up well off don't realize it, and they don't realize how much worse everyone else has it. And that's why a lot of people get frustrated with. With this concept of, like, privilege is they're like, you know, you've got it great, and you. And you still complain or you, you know, you don't, you know, you're not grateful for it. Or whatever. Like, so people can kind of get hung up on that. So when somebody tells the story, like, yeah, I grew up like quite well off and I had this great, these great, you know, advantages and blessings and however you want to frame it, that's, that makes us like the storyteller because we go, you have some self awareness and you have some perspective and that's a good thing as a storyteller. So I really like that.

And then the concept of your parents, the loving and the doting was really, was lovely and the performing and then the brother. I often ask about siblings, birth order, family dynamics because those are also very, very important. That's another thing I learned from armchair expert. They always ask about that, you know, siblings, birth order. It's a very, it's a great, it's also a great jumping off point for conversation as well.

Yeah.

So if I had to summarize the snapshots of you, your to your twos's childhoods. Grammar's hard.

Me talk pretty.

Yeah, yeah. Corinne, suburbs outside Philly. Comfy but not wealthy. Less, less well off than the people around you. And then, forgive me. Yeah. Parents still together? Did you mention siblings?

Yes. I have an older brother, he's three and a half years older than me.

Three and a half years older than you. Then Rachel goes, grew up in the middle of nowhere. That's interesting already. That's, that's, that's a visual language, that's evocative language. I'm picturing somewhere very remote and, and that's quite, quite interesting. Yeah. Dad didn't go to college, but we were well off. That you realized later.

And you grew up performing with loving, doting parents and you had a little sibling come along at six and a half, which must have been quite a shock. So already we've got so much more information about you too than most people would ever have about a work acquaintance unless you've been working together for a long time. That's good. So I'll just leave it there for now. Now I want to ask you guys about growing up, growing up years. Were there any major significant life changing events that happened to you guys between let's say the ages of like let's say between the ages of 8 and 18. Let's start there.

I was pretty fortunate to not have a significant tragedy that I can recall or speak about that I feel impacted me.

Yeah.

My grandparents were, during the timeframe that you're describing, were alive and a part of our lives. So are my cousins and my immediate family. And I had A pretty strong network of friendships. I was voted most talkative and I loved socializing with people. So I had a pretty good experience in the. Some awkwardness in middle school, which I think is probably the most common thing you could say, but into high school. Really enjoyed the high school experience. Literally just texted, oh, I'm not supposed to bring it to now.

I caught myself there. Will. I was going to share that. I just texted with two high school friends today.

Oh, that's. That's great.

To illustrate that I still talk to the people that I first had experiences with in my life and friendship when I was that young. And I'm 45 now, so pretty strong basis of upbringing at that time. I don't.

Yeah. And definitely stuff.

There was some stuff with my dad. My parents were very strict and my brother, as the older sibling, didn't really lead the way in any boundary pushing. He was pretty quiet and had a couple friends and just kind of was a big rule follower. So he was a very easy firstborn for my parents in that regard. And then I came along and flipped the house upside down and all the things because I pushed boundaries. There was some lying going on. There was, I want to do this, I want to do that. And my parents were not only strict, but they were kind of straight edge, both of them.

So dealing with me, I think during some of that time period, especially middle school and high school, which are the years you asked for, I think was a challenge for them. I mean, I was having a great time, but I think it was a challenge for them.

And so did that cause a lot of conflict at home between you guys? Like, was there a lot of conflicts?

My mother. Yes, they put my mother in the middle a lot between my father and I. And she had to play that role of trying to understand my side and keep an open dialogue and then trying to obviously, you know, be with her husband and understand his perspective on. This needs to be strict. This needs to be rigid. This is. This is not acceptable. There was a lot of that and push and pull that went on during my high school years.

It calmed down when I hit college and moved out of the house. Things kind of settled a bit, I would say at that time, high school, there was some dynamics that went on that were difficult.

Gotcha. And Rach, I'm just going to stay with Corinne for now because I think that we're getting close to something.

I know. I wish we could just do this every day with Will. I'm feeling all the warm and cozy right now.

I don't Want to jump in? I don't want to jump in and ruin the flow, but I got ideas here.

Okay, good. No, no, Rachel, please. You got ideas for Corinne?

Well, it's just, it's just so funny to me knowing that about you. I did not know that about you, Rin. And so knowing you as a leader in our organization now and how you run things, like you, you know, not that you run a tight ship where you're micromanaging, but you, you are a strong leader and you have very clear demands of people and you hold them accountable. And you're not just like, peace and love, baby. I mean, like, when we're, when we're out and we're hanging out after a work event, then it's a different, a different side comes out, which obviously in any kind of, I don't know, work environment, it should, but that's just really funny to me. I did not know that about you.

Okay, this is really good. I, I, I, I'm, I'm, that's, I, I thank you for bringing that in, Rachel, because I think this is going to be very, very important. So, Corinne, what did you go into when you said things calm down in university? What did you study?

I was a journalism major. So when you were talking about writing and a blank page and human thought, I, that really, I had all the feels during that moment. Well, because I am enjoying learning about AI I'm excited about it, saving time for me as a professional, and it gets me closer to where I need to be with projects that I just need to get done with just the heavy load of work that goes on in the mortgage business.

Yeah, sure.

Having said that, I don't want it to take away from the fact that I just want more time to be creative and free and have the blank page, and I want my kids to understand the blank page. And I have concerns there that they're not going to understand it the way I used to just write poetry. I have poems in a room right next to me right now that are in a storage bin. I wrote for my closest friends weddings. I spoke at many of their weddings and wrote my own organic piece for the couple at their wedding. Some of them asked me to do that, and I love doing that.

Yeah. Where, where did the desire to go to journalism to study journalism come from? Do you know?

Just, I just always loved writing.

I, what age?

Oh, definitely, like middle school and high school. I don't remember the elementary. I don't remember enough about elementary to tell you what I was doing then, but I Remember in middle school and high school, liking to write papers? I always wanted to tell stories. I love telling stories. So, like, when you talk about storytelling, I'm like, oh, I could sit here with you, Will for hours and tell stories. Like, I enjoy the art of a story, and I think it's really important humor. I am. So I just, like, I could be in business meetings all day.

Well. And I'm laughing to myself about, like, how this could be a parody or, like, is anybody catching the humor in this? Like. And I know that I can't.

Here's my. Here's what I want to highlight, which is really interesting, is all the time at work, we do this thing where we tell people, I am this way. This is what I like. This is what I'm interested in. This is how I am. To me, the best way to do that is to tell a story about it from your past to explain why you are that way, or just to. Just to. Or just to.

To show that it's. It's a lifelong thing. So when you say, corinne, I love this and I love writing, I want to know why, like, was there. And you may not know the answer to that yet, but there may be something in your middle school that you had to express yourself and you found it. Or there may be you maybe read a book that spark something. Maybe you had a great teacher who took you to the Scholastic Book Fair. I don't know if you had that in the States, but that was a big thing in Canada. Yeah.

Yeah. And so, you know, if you can remember that or if you can go there or just make a guess in terms of, like, you know, I was the younger sibling, my brother was a rule follower, and I felt out of place. And so to me, poetry was where I rebelled and expressed myself without, like, pissing my parents off too much, whatever that is. Right. Like, yeah, I don't.

Yeah, I don't think you hit it there. But I feel like when it comes to articulating myself, I would. If I had to explain something to a group of people, maybe. Well, you're telling me not to pull to present day. I've gotten. I've. I've sales experience now, so I'm more skilled at talking now.

Yeah, go back. Go back to middle school.

I would enjoy. I felt like I could articulate myself really well and in a powerful way if I could put it down on paper. And I got encouragement from other people from doing that and people giving me feedback and saying, you're a really good writer. I just enjoyed it. It was a natural space. I don't know where it started from. Yeah, I don't know that I know.

And, and, and if, if it really is unknowable in the sense that you go back and you're just like, I just don't know where it came from, that's fine too. And that's interesting to, to say and to tell us, but like, stories are all about asking and answering questions. So when you say, I always love writing, my reader listener brain goes, I wonder why? And if you can answer that, it's super satisfying. But if you can't, then I'm kind of just like, oh, but if you even speak to like, I don't know where it came from. It was just there. Then at least that satisfies that question. At least it's like, okay, she doesn't know, so I'm not missing anything. Does that make sense?

It does.

Okay, so you go, you get a lot of feedback, positive feedback. You feel like you, you can articulate yourself better on the page versus out loud. You get a lot of good feedback from people. Oh, you are a really good writer. That makes you feel good. That's validation. That's. And then you go, well, why not pursue a major in writing?

Exactly. Okay, yeah, that makes sense. The way you just said that. That makes sense on the cron. The chronological order of it. I don't have these, I don't have a specific memory that would be more interesting and exciting to share. Like I had this aha moment. I don't, I don't have that in my brain right now of where that came from.

Life doesn't always happen that way. And that's okay. Right? We can't fit everything into a neat, perfect story. So as long as you recognize the unasked question from the audience and, and deal with it, then you're okay. The, the frustrating stories to listen to are the stories where we just don't know the reasons for the characters decisions. Yeah, I went to journalism school. Why? Imagine you're watching a movie and then the character just goes to journalism school. And there's no line about like, oh, my dad went to journalism school.

I want to follow in his footstep. My dad hates journalism, so I'm going to piss him off. Like, we need to, we want to know why. Right. Okay. I'm going to stay with Corinne for one more secrech and then we're, hey, this is great. So, so you're going to school for journalism. How long does that last in terms of like your career? In journalism.

It never had one.

Never had one. Okay.

Yeah. And then the. The degree was four years major in journalism, minor in Spanish. Probably wrote hundreds of press releases. Had a professor who was awesome who just continued to make us write press releases every other day. So I could. I could whip out a press release about this podcast for you in a few minutes without using AI because I had to do it on repeat for four years at iup.

And so. But then you graduate and you didn't find a job or you didn't want to do it anymore. What was the change? Well, how did you. Why didn't you have a career in journalism?

I've always kind of suffered from. I don't know what I want to be when I grow up. That hasn't ended. I don't know if we can say that. You might need to cut that, Rachel. But see, that's the problem with business podcast.

And what's wrong with that? What's wrong with that statement? I find that so relatable, so funny.

I hope that loan officers aren't like, well, she's the leader of the marketing team. I hope she, like. Because obviously I enjoy that. But. But, yeah, there's still pieces of me that's like, I don't know what I would be when I grow up. So was just networking and looking for jobs out of college, and it was based on where I moved, and I ended up getting more into sales right out of the gates and had some skill sets that led to that. And I'm a little. I'm abstract.

I'm not. I've always been a little abstract. Look. Well, maybe I would like that, too. That's an answer of every question that's always asked. Well, maybe I would be good at that, too.

And then I kind of shiny object syndrome thing.

I'll tell you something interesting. I've always been jealous of people that knew exactly what they wanted to be and just never veered off of that. I'm like, that looks so satisfying to me. You're just following this track and you just know what it is. You know what you were meant to be. And I see these people around me, I'm like, that's so amazing. It was never me. And it still is not great.

That's. That's awesome. That's awesome. It's relatable, it's human, it's interesting. It's vulnerable to share, because there is. So I want to point something out. You shared something and you said, oh, Rachel, like, maybe we should cut this. That's a.

A Clue to you, Corinne, when you're doing this work, to not cut that you've just said something important.

Okay.

Because if it scares you, it means it's vulnerable. Vulnerability is not actually vulnerability. If what you said couldn't maybe cost you something, I like that. And the reason why vulnerability is so powerful to an audience is because they. They recognize the risk. It's like watching someone walk on a tightrope. They go, oh, that person is putting themselves out there. You're not supposed to do that.

This is dangerous. And then you just keep talking, and then it's fine. And then they go, wow. And then it's like you got to the other side of the. You know, that's why vulnerability is so powerful. Yes. There are times where you can go too far, but in general, we are so scared to say anything that we go. We default to this side of the vulnerability spectrum.

And there's so much more room to go before you go too far. Yes, Rachel.

And honestly, I think that's why you're so good at what you do. Because in marketing, we are in so many different roles, having to dabble in so many different things and so many different hats that we wear. I mean, Corinne, you're. You're talking with sales, you're helping me with a recruiting project. You're in. With graphics, you're in AI you're in all these different areas and putting on all these different hats. I mean, I think you have such a wide range of things that you need to cover as the VP of marketing that. That makes you really good at what you do.

Because a lot of times people are like, no, I need to stay in this lane. But then they can't help and lend their. Their expertise to other departments in other areas. So.

It'S always the thing. It's the thing that scares us the most is like our superpower. It's the. You know, the. The. The. The thing, the. The treasure you seek is in the cave you fear to enter.

It's always that kind of a thing, you know? This is great, Karin. This is really good. Okay, so you. You. You start this career in sales. You have an affinity for it. You do well in sales, I'm assuming.

Yeah, early stages. I didn't end up staying in sales. I think.

Sales. What's next? Let's. Let's. Let's try to go a bit faster and try to stick with just. No, no, it's not your fault. This is me. It's my job to manage the clock, but just try to give me your. Your career.

Trajectory just in bullet points over the next few, few years.

Okay, so first it. It all ends up to kind of a culmination of where I am now. So we'll start with out of college trade show exhibit sales. I worked for a very successful event planner and learned underneath her how to run events right out of college. That was my first job. And I had to sell exhibit booth spaces, which I loved. I had this map and I love maps. And I got to make phone calls and talk to people and I liked that.

Awesome.

So that was the start. Then I got pulled back home. I decided I didn't want to live in Pittsburgh anymore. I wanted to live around my family, where I grew up, moved back home and got a job in advertising sales. So started working for an advertising agency, selling their services and working with clients and stayed in that space for a while. Shifted to a couple different agencies, but stayed in that space for a long time.

Okay, so selling advertising services.

Yeah, being an account executive, talking to people, working on their plans, Stuff like that.

Okay, then what do you think was the thing? What? Yeah, what was the moment, whether it was major or seemingly almost like unnoticeable, where you, where you went off that track maybe and then got onto the track you're on today?

I got fired. That's good, right? I got let go. I wasn't really fired. I got let go because we lost a big client and the client was supporting our income. I was just working with another person. It was right before 2020 and Covid hit and there was just stuff shifting with the small business I was working in and they couldn't afford to pay me anymore. So then this goes into my more recent story of I got out. Basically a networking list of like people in my network that I wanted to just share.

I lost my job. Here's my experience. Is there anything that I can do to either help you or somebody in your circle that I should reach out to? I basically had a script. This is per my aunt, who is my mentor, and Dave, my boss, current day boss, was on that list. And there's a funny story which Rachel knows that I've told many times that came from that. So that is the. Is how it all shifted from the places I was working at to now.

Lovely. So right now we basically have your mini memoir. And now it's about massaging it like, and smoothening out the edges. Smoothening, if that's a word, into a basically three act story that you can start to repeat not in the same words, but in the same structure again. And Again and again, when, you know, like, there's this part of my life and then obviously a ton in there that I'm not telling you about, but that can kind of just fill in the snapshot. Then there's this turning point, and then there's, you know, some stuff that happens in here. And then I met Dave. And since then, here's what happens.

Like, that's kind of what we're trying to get to. Childhood turning point. And then what brought me to today, Is it interesting?

Like. Well, yours was.

Here's how we make it. Here's how we make it interesting. A story is made interesting by repetition, by surprise, by stakes, high stakes, by tension and release, by emotional insight, by quirkiness. Like, there's so many ways to make a story interesting. And it's how Seinfeld was able to be popular, even though the premise of the show is that it's about nothing. It's how, like, movies like Manchester by the Sea or, you know, Richard Linklater films, like, what's the famous one with Matthew McConaughey and all the Days and Confused.

Dazed and Confused.

Yeah. It's a high school party and yet there's so much.

Yeah.

You know, who would have thought, oh, I want to watch a movie about a bunch of kids getting drunk and high. But it's amazing, right? And so the way that they do that is by introducing, you know, introducing themes that get that recur or introducing patterns that then get broken or, like, that's how you. That's how you make something interesting and touching on things that matter to people. Whether that's nostalgia or grief or redemption or, you know, whatever. Love. All these things that make us care.

Of course. I know, I'm sorry, I'm cutting it again right where it gets good. But what can I say? We like a little suspense around here. So we've talked about why storytelling matters. We've learned the three act origin story and the framework, and next week is where it all comes to life. So part three will gets deeper into coaching with me and Corinne and helps us find that clarity, the connection. Probably a little courage along the way. So you're not going to want to miss this.

Mark your calendars, pull up a seat, and get ready to eavesdrop on some true storytelling magic. We'll catch you next time.