Welcome to Lending Leadership. Today marks a truly special milestone for us: our 100th episode! For this landmark discussion, we’re excited to dive into the power of book clubs, habit formation, and the role company culture plays in personal and professional growth.

We’re joined by Dave Holland, whose passion for self-improvement and leadership through reading has sparked change across our team, and your hosts, Corrine Bibb and Rachael Tresch.

This episode is all about how the simple act of reading, whether on your own or as part of a book club, can deliver lasting change in your career, your family, and your life. We explore how our company book club came to be, the impact it’s had (and the honest truth about participation), and why consistency and a growth mindset matter more now than ever, especially in a tough mortgage market. We also break down how habit stacking, as discussed in “Atomic Habits” and other top books, creates a foundation for success and resilience.

We share our favorite reads, practical approaches for making reading a routine (yes, audio counts!), and actionable strategies for building a culture that goes beyond one-off events or pizza parties. Dave offers personal stories about how reading and consistent daily practices have influenced not just his work, but his family too. As leaders, we reflect on why bringing what you love to your team can positively impact everyone around you.

Key takeaways:

1. Reading as a Catalyst for Growth: We discuss how integrating even 10 pages a day or a few minutes of audiobooks into your routine can add up to real knowledge and perspective shifts. Both reading and listening to books “count” what matters is finding a format that helps you truly retain and apply what you learn.
2. The Magic of Habit Stacking: Dave shares his morning routine and how stacking small, positive habits together like hydrating, exercising, and reading creates an automatic foundation for a successful day. Start small and adapt routines to fit your life; success comes from daily consistency, not big leaps.
3. Book Club as a Culture Builder: We unpack the origins of our company book club, the logistics (and challenges) of running it, and the real impact even a small, dedicated group can make. When leaders show up and champion learning, it sets an example and fuels wider engagement.
4. Culture is More Than Events: We reflect on why true workplace culture is built slowly and intentionally, especially in remote or virtual environments. Real connections and shared growth, whether through a book club or other interest groups, matter more than one-off celebrations.
5. Leadership Through Passion and Example: One of the biggest takeaways is that when you, as a leader, bring your genuine interests whether books or something else to your team, it’s contagious. Dave Holland’s commitment to self-improvement is shaping not just colleagues but family as well, reminding us that consistency, vulnerability, and enthusiasm are the foundation of authentic leadership.

We hope this conversation inspires you to be intentional about your daily habits, get involved in (or start!) a book club, and find joy in sharing what you love with those around you. To everyone who’s been with us for these 100 episodes, thank you for being part of our journey! Here’s to 100 more!

We live in an age like between books, podcasts, YouTube, social media, uh, AI, that you can basically learn anything.

Guys, welcome to Lending Leadership. This is our 100th episode. We have a very special segment coming to you today, um, with our fearless leader, our president of HMA Mortgage. And today we're going to talk about not just book club and what a book club can do for yourself, your company, your family. But we're going to talk about culture and how coming together to talk about different topics that elevate us from a professional standpoint, a personal standpoint, can really affect your life. So, we're going to get into it. You know, Dave, how are you? Rachel, good to see you. I'm excited, guys.

Yeah, so am I.

Welcome. 100 episodes. And this is so great because we're pulling together, Dave, your love of books and leadership and so many different angles that we're going kind of touch on today. But I really love that this is something that you had talked about for quite some time. I want to do a book club. I want to do a book club. And finally, you're like, what are we waiting for?

Let's just go for it.

Let's do it.

Yeah, absolutely. I kind of got into reading, I don't know, maybe like a year ago, 15 months ago. The Slight Edge, I read. And it's like a lot of these self-improvement Just little habits add up. And I read something that if you read 10 pages a day, you'll read 12 books a year. And I said, well, shit, I can read 10 pages a day. That doesn't seem too overwhelming. And then I started thinking, like, we live in an age, like, between books, podcasts, YouTube, social media, AI, that you can basically learn anything.

And one of our loan officers, Lindsay Labonte, mentioned that on our last book club. There's just so much information out there. Like, if you want to, like, become an expert on marketing or specifically marketing for a loan officer in the mortgage world, all that information's available, right?

It's—

you have no excuse but, you know, I guess apathy and lack of imagination. It's all out there, right? And if you You can read about it, listen to podcasts about it. You can look at top loan officers who are crushing it on social media and just copy what they're doing because they're not in your market and no one's going to care. So, there's so much available knowledge out there. It's really easy for me to read 10 pages a day. I don't know what it takes me, 15 minutes, if that, depending on how heavy the book is. So, I committed to reading 12 books a year, 10 pages a day last year. I was okay with it.

And this year, my goal is to read or listen to 3 books a month, and I'm pretty much on pace for it. I run a lot, so I'll listen to biographies while I'm running. I just burn through them. Like, when you're going for a 2-hour run on a treadmill in January and it's super boring, like, you need something to kind of keep you going. So, yeah.

I love that, Dave. Let's talk about some of the books and dive a little bit further because I want to get some of your insights. And of Of course, there's always good details and recommendations for everybody too, but to just go through that—

Actually, hold on, hold on, Corinne, Corinne. I have to ask this. I just have to throw this in there because me and my husband get in an argument about this. I want you guys to tell me what you think because, Dave, you hit on something. When you're running, you're listening. I didn't know this about myself until later in life that I am an auditory kinesthetic learner. When I'm listening and moving and doing something, I just retain the information so much better rather than reading it. I feel like if I just sit and read, my mind wanders.

But Jamie's always like, it doesn't count when someone else reads it to you. It's like storytime. Like, I don't think so. I think it counts. What— how do you guys— I know you just said you kind of do both, Dave, but what do you guys think about that?

I think it counts. My wife's a teacher and our kids have been listening to books and she said that's almost nearly as good. It all depends how you learn and retain information. Like, like, I'm not sure if I'd want to read like a 700-page biography. I think it'd be too much. But when I listen to it, And, you know, say it's a 12-hour book and I can finish it up in, you know, 10, 11 runs. That's easy for me. But I have listened to books, then I've read them or vice versa.

And I guess kind of depends how hard I'm working out. Like, if I'm working out really hard, I'm not going to retain any information. But I prefer reading. But I read Atomic Habits in January and I'm listening to it again right now.

Yeah, I agree with Dave and the reference there. I definitely think that audio listening counts. I mean, you can accomplish so much by doing different things together. So, like, for example, one of my morning routines is I've got to get out and power walk the dog. So, that exercise is happening. The dog has to get the exercise. I have to get some opening exercise. So, I have a route.

I have some routes built in, and my dog will go far. So, of course, I'm going to put on an audiobook while I'm walking. Because I really am feeling like I'm getting a lot of good learning out of that during that time. So I'm accomplishing exercise and audio learning simultaneously in that 25-minute segment. And it's been really valuable for my, my morning routine, my morning health. So I would say that it definitely counts.

And driving too. Like, I drive a ton. Like, if I'm driving to our office in Columbus or Erie, I'll listen to half a book sometimes if I'm not grinding out calls. So, I'm just trying to squeeze in. I do like reading it. I do like holding it. I do like highlighting it, right? Not that I go back very often and highlight, but I'm rereading 2 books right now. And it was interesting what I highlighted before versus now.

I love that. Okay. Well, thank you for settling the score. I appreciate that. Okay. Let's dive into the books. I didn't mean to hijack that. I just, I had to get it out because Hijack away.

All right.

Let's get into some of the books. Let's talk about some topics. So, Chris Voss's Negotiation Tactics: Never Split the Difference. Hal Elrod with The Morning Miracle. What a great read there. Atomic Habits by James Clear, one that Dave highly recommends. And then, I know another one sitting out there, Dave, is The 5 AM Club, right? That's one that you've read, I think, multiple times. So, I know there's more.

I've just covered a small snippet there. Dave, tell us about some of your favorites. Give us some reasons and some information for our loan officers watching, our real estate professionals, why any one of these books and more that you know in your repertoire of the last couple of years can really honestly change your life.

Yeah.

I mean, all the books you mentioned were great. They all bring a lot of value. All the books that we've read so far this year, I'll probably reread again. In fact, I'm relistening to Atomic Habits. Never Split the Difference by Chris Voss, awesome book. I'll reread that again. You're not going to retain everything, obviously, but they're all great ideas. They're all coming from great concepts.

I think reading or listening to a book, it does a number of things. It expands your knowledge, obviously. You're going to get a couple nuggets away from it. You're going to write better. You're going to think. Your thinking's going to improve. Your manner of speech is going to get better. I mean, and then you're going to get little nuggets from all of them.

Never Split the Difference has so many great takeaways in negotiation. I mean, I use it with my kids all the time. The simple lines are, I want to be on my iPad right now. So, well, help me explain, help me understand how being on your iPad now before your homework is going to get your homework done. Help me understand that. And I stump them. They think and they're like, oh, I just do my homework. Atomic Habits has so many great takeaways.

Habit stacking is one of them. I use that on a regular basis in my daily life.

Can you go into that a little bit? I read Atomic Habits years ago, and so the practice is familiar, but I'm kind of forgetting the ins and outs of what that is.

Yeah. I mean, the one thing that I do every morning when I get up, no matter how I feel, is I chug a bunch of water. Right out of the gun. And then I move into these movement acts. I call it poor man's tai chi, right? Today, I slept for 8 hours because I had a really hard workout yesterday and I'm like, I don't want to do it. But I was really foggy when I woke up because I got a really good night's sleep and I did it for 10 minutes. I felt completely awake. And then I— this is going to sound a little goofy, but I don't care.

Then I have mushroom coffee before I drink regular coffee. So, While I'm working out for 8 to 12 minutes, I'm brewing hot water, pour my mushroom coffee, drink that. And then when I'm done with that, I brew regular coffee, but I put creatine, take 10 milligrams of creatine before I drink my coffee. So those are all things now that I don't miss any of them because I do them boom, boom, boom in order.

So that's the habit stacking.

Habit stacking.

That's the habit stacking. And then I read after that. So those are 5 things I do in order every morning. And I've never been a real regimented guy, but I do that so I don't forget it. And those 5 things get done. I guess drinking coffee and mushroom coffee really don't count, but those 5 things get done every single morning. So that's just a small little micro example. of habit stacking.

You know what's really interesting, guys? I feel like that is such a great practice and it's not this rocket surgery, my favorite term, rocket surgery. It's not this big or in-depth thing that you're doing, but how easy is it to fall the other way?

Sure.

To be like, oh, I just get up and I just scroll, or like, I just lay in bed too long. We can get into that side of habits very quickly. But when you're doing things like you just mentioned, like I know Corinne, you're getting up and you have a different routine and you've been really, um, you've been very inspiring lately for some of the things that you're doing. And it's, it's so easy either way to either do something that's going to benefit you or do something that maybe is like really in the long run not going to help you.

And I think one of the points Dave makes too is, and a lot of these books can be, uh, have some moments of repetitiveness to really sink in some of the core concepts, which I think is actually a good thing. But start small. I think it can feel sometimes overwhelming when you're like, oh, you know, I've got the kids, I'm already so busy in the morning, I've got these 6 things I have to get done that don't even apply to me. Well, a lot of these routines can be customized to your lifestyle. What may work for Dave doesn't work for Rachel and doesn't work for then Corinne.

Absolutely.

And that's okay. That's okay. So it's a matter of learning the concepts, understanding the concepts and then fitting it into your lifestyle. But the consistency piece of what Dave described is really one of the success components, is that you have to stick with it. You have to develop the habits and keep doing them, but build them in a way that works for you, doesn't work against you. Because we know from, from history, when we try to do something and we have that mentality of this isn't going to work, a lot of times we talk ourselves out of it, or we're doing it for a week and then we're starting to drop off. And that's not the point of, of of the exercise. It's to build consistency over time with a routine that you can keep doing to improve yourself.

Yeah, there's nothing more powerful to get where you want to go in any facet of your life than consistency. Day in, day out, slowly, slowly, slowly building, right? You're not going to get there right away. Like, I train for marathons and ultramarathons, and I kind of have in my head now, like, hey, I'm going to do a 16-week cycle, and you're never going to win a marathon or get your goal time on a Thursday, right? If you go hard as shit and go on a— it's never going to win there. It's the Thursday, then the Saturday junk run, and slowly, slowly building. And I think that's everything in life. I think the problem now is people want instant gratification.

Mm-hmm.

But I look back from like a year ago, I'm like, wow, I've done a lot. And none of it happened quickly. It was just a slow, slow rise up. I think it's in Atomic Habits. It's like, what's the phrase? And I should have done a little homework before, but there's like, you're like this and there's like, there's a section where you're going to be really disappointed in your growth. Because nothing's really happening.

You're kind of plateauing.

Yeah, it's called the plateau of, ah, I should have not, I should have done that.

Plateau effect or something? We can look that up.

No, like plateau of like disappointment or something like that where you slowly build and everyone's like, oh, he or she became a success overnight. Well, no, that person's been literally building to this for a decade. So it's just small, if you want a quick win, It's not really going to happen in life, right, unless you win the lottery, right? But it's a slow, it's a slow burnout, day in and day out, doing the habits, doing the boring stuff, being disciplined, being motivated.

Well, if we could touch on that one point, Dave, that I have also noticed is a really key point when you're trying to start any new routine or habit cycle or improve yourself is that it's easy to look at somebody like a Dave as an example and say, oh, well, you know, Dave's so successful. You know, I don't, I don't know how, how he does it. He must just have a different level of motivation than I was born with. That's actually not true and proven untrue.

Sure.

That Dave is continuing to just be consistent. As you just mentioned earlier, you woke up the other morning or one of these mornings that I— and were exhausted and tired. Did you want to do it any more than somebody else? You, in your mind, were like, I don't feel like doing this today either. But the difference is, is that you got up and did it anyway.

It was a habit, right?

Yeah.

So these lame poor man tai chi, it's the Michael Holland exercises, and a bunch of people in the company are doing it, which is really funny. I just got in the habit of doing it, and it makes me feel— again, it's 10, 12 minutes of exercise, nothing hardcore. I'm not doing a bunch of push-ups or burpees. It's just slow movements and wakes up my mind and my body. And I'm disciplined in doing it. And I think some people say it takes 21 days to develop a habit. That's probably it. Like, I work out every single— that's not my workout, that's just my morning wake-up.

But I work out every single day because I'm in the habit of doing it, and I've just gotten used to it, and it's part of my routine, right? Like, you know, habits are, you know, smoking. And, you know, once you get in the habit of smoking, it's hard to break. As are good habits. That's a bad habit, but good habits are hard to break as well too once you get in the routine.

You know what's really interesting? And you both kind of touched on this, and I've heard this in the past where it's like it's much easier to create a habit when you attach it to something you're already doing. Like Corinne, you said, I have to walk the dog in the morning anyway, or if you're driving and you want to be reading, kind of kill 2 birds with one stone. It's really hard when you add something additional and it's just one more thing you have to do. But if you can attach it to something you're doing anyway, I feel like you're going to have a much better success rate in continuing and keeping up with that consistency.

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

Yeah, I agree. Let's transition a little bit if we can, Rach. I want to talk to Dave about the concept of book clubs. So, we've talked a little bit about the books, about what some of these books can bring to your life. But let's talk about book club in general, Dave. This was your your vision, uh, to bring this to the company? And, um, you know, what does it look like here at HMA specifically? I mean, I know I've been on some of them, but I feel like it's a really nice space to get team members, um, and it could be for any company to connect and learn together. So, you know, where did the concept come from? And, uh, you know, how do you feel that it's going culture-wise here?

Uh, I stole it from my coaching group, Go Coaching. I'll be honest.

Yeah.

Right? So, and I'm following most of their books because I know they're going to do deeper research than me. I've mixed it up a couple of times. So, I follow their books and I just thought it'd be a good idea for people because I've gotten so much from reading. It's changed my life, the books that I've read. It changes how I approach the day. It changes how early I get up. I'm becoming a Boy Scout slowly but surely. How's it going at the company? Eh, it's going okay.

The attendance is a little weak, if I'm being honest. You know, the first one, I was like, wow, this is going to be more than I thought because like, I don't know, like 180 people RSVP'd. I'm like, shit, I hit the main vein here. And I think there were 40 or 50 on the first call.

Which is great, by the way. That's a pretty solid percentage.

But it's progressively gone down, right? So it's— we get like a dozen people, 15 people, but we have a lot of regulars, right? Some people can't show up because of conflicts and stuff like that. So we have a lot of regulars who show up that heavily participate. And many people who have joined— 2 people have told me privately this has changed their life. So I'm like, all right, if 2 people are getting like a ton out of it, then it's a win. That's why I mixed it up this month with Mel Robbins with Let Them. I figured maybe I'd pull in some more people to it because that was probably the most—

That's a hot title.

Yeah, it was probably the most famous book in 2025, like self-improvement book. I honestly don't like it that much. I'm about halfway through it, but Yeah. Everyone else is loving it. So, uh, maybe I'll let one of them lead the discussion. Um, so I, I think it's been okay, but I hope some people are seeing it happen, right? And maybe are reading the book that just don't want to participate. So I'm not going to jam it down anyone's throat. Uh, it's gotten me to read the books, take them more seriously, as well as kind of prep for them, prep for the book club and, you know, review them in detail.

In advance.

So, I'm reading the books anyway, so we might as well discuss it. Quite frankly, I'm probably not the best leader for it on the book club, but it's all good. I don't care. I've gotten everything I want from it thus far, and I'm going to keep doing it.

You know, it's so funny when, if you were just a participant, you'd probably, I don't know, maybe, I'm sure you would be reading, but when you're just kind of in the stands, it's like, okay, maybe I'll read, maybe I won't. But when you're the one who's leading something and you have to show up, I feel like it's just, you want to obviously champion something. So, so that's a note for anybody out there. If you really want something to happen, consider leading it. Consider being the one who's gonna, you know, really be the cheerleader behind it because you'll actually do it then. You know, when you know people's eyes are on you, it's a different level of showing up.

Yeah. And I thought a company of our size, we have over 300 teammates. I thought seeing one of the leaders at the company, me, Participate in that and trying to get everyone, improve everyone. I thought that was, I thought that was pretty cool.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You know, it's, um, it's kind of funny, and this is kind of an interesting statement, and I'm curious what both of you think about this. But when, when we talk about culture, a lot of companies are talking about their culture, and culture is hard to kind of cultivate right now because a lot of people are virtual, they're remote, and it's hard to build that, that camaraderie and relationship when people aren't actually in the same space. But, but the idea is that culture isn't a pizza party. What do you have to say about that? Would you agree? Like, let's have a pizza party. We have a great culture.

Yeah, I mean, I think that's right. I mean, I think culture is built slowly, like anything else. People have to buy into it. And some people are going to be naysayers and not going to be in it. Let them, Corinne. Let them.

Let them.

Let them.

Yeah, I mean, I think culture is one of those buzzwords. It's, it's kind of hard to put your finger on. You know, I, I think if I'm looking at things objectively, I think we probably have like a 7.5, 8 culture here. I think it's good. Uh, the mortgage industry is kind of getting kicked in the butt right now, so it's not a great time to be in mortgages. Uh, but I think our culture is good and certainly not a pizza party, and it is harder Being remote, for sure.

Yeah, it creates additional challenges than those in-person events where you really get to connect with people and talk to them face to face. But, you know, I think some, some individuals are going to resonate in one way, like, you know, we have cooking club, and we have walking club. And that's something that, that, you know, certain individuals will be really tied to. Book club is the same thing, you know, getting together and having a discussion about a book. So, You know, you put out, I think our company does a great job at putting out a lot of different kind of wide-net ideas to gather individuals to connect more than just those departmental projects that we're all working hard on every week. But again, certain folks are going to resonate with one more than another. And this has just been, I feel like, a really strong one, even though I know, Dave, you referenced the attendance at times. But as you point out, even if a few people really get a really great nugget out of one book that they read, it accomplished its goal in and of itself.

I mean, listen, if everyone at the company read every book of Book Club front to back, I guarantee if you read each of these books, you'll think better, you'll learn better, you'll speak better, you'll write better, and they will improve your life. I guarantee it. I 100% guarantee it. If someone asks me like, hey, I need to improve my life, what do I do? I'm like, all right, well, get up early, read a book a month, and exercise 4 or 5 days a week. If you do those things, your life will improve dramatically. There's no ands or ifs about it. Bottom line, end of story. But I don't want to be that overbearing guy.

I just kind of softly invite people in and hopefully, we get more and more. I'd like to see you two have a little more attendance on book club now that you're on the spot and we're recording a podcast.

What are you talking about?

And they're all on Spotify. They're all on Spotify Premium or they're on Audible. You can listen to all these books.

I just listened to Miracle Morning. I'm on chapter 7 right now, David Hollen. I just walked and listened to chapter 7. I think I'm getting close to the end and about to start the 30-day challenge. Fun fact, I actually asked David Hollen to be my accountability partner. So, for any of you reading Miracle Morning, it's highly recommended that you get an accountability partner, maybe somebody who's doing it or has read the book that will kind of check in with you and see where you're at and make sure you're accountable to your goals every morning.

I've legitimately got something out of every single book that we've read this year. I've enjoyed them all. I've enjoyed some more than others. But they're all great books.

Yeah.

Yeah. We'll put the list because this is really— I mean, 9 different titles. I'll just read them off really quickly again. Atomic Habits, James Clear. 10X Is Easier Than 2X, Dan Sullivan and Benjamin Hardy. Never Split the Difference, Chris Voss. The Coffee Bean, John Gordon and Damon West. The One Thing, Gary Keller and Jay Papasan.

Buy Back Your Time, Dan Martell. The Psychology of Money, Morgan Housel. The Miracle Morning, Hal Elrod. And then this month, is Let Them by Mel Robbins. I mean, that is like an all-star lineup right there. But you know what I have to say? What I love most about this, Dave, is that you have a passion for this. And I think as the leaders listening out there, I mean, we're all leaders in some capacity, right? But if you're listening and you're kind of like, books really aren't my thing, well then, find out your thing. Find out something that you're passionate about and bring it to those around you because that's infectious.

You know, if you can really pour into other people with something that you really feel passionate about, that is the sign of a strong leader. Bring what you love.

You know, what's cool is my kids roll their eyes at me, like my middle daughter, like, oh, my name's Dad and I'm going to read all these self-help books and blah, blah, blah. Guess what? I bought a bunch of kids' ones. I got all my kids except my youngest. reading self-improvement books, every single one of them. And they actually like them because they see me and my wife doing them. I got my wife on the train. It's like an arms race at my house right now, who can get up earlier, because my wife likes to get up and work out before she goes to work, right? So she's been getting up at like 5:15. Now she's up at 5, and she goes, I may have to get up at 4:45 to hop in the sauna after I work out.

I'm like, oh my God, where's this going? Like, that was my time. I started getting up early so I had my time. And now, like, everyone's getting up. Like, my son, he saw that I was reading The 5 AM Club last year. He started setting his alarm at 5 AM because he thought he was missing out on something. Like, whoa, buddy. No, no, no, no. You're going back to bed.

You need like 11 hours of sleep a night, how hot you run. So, it's rubbing off on my kids. They roll their eyes.

Yeah.

But like, you know, it's infectious. So, I'm hoping that will kind of rub off on, you know, some of the people within our organization for sure.

Awesome. Rach, you want to wrap us or should we take it home?

Yeah, absolutely. You know, I think I mentioned my favorite parts about all of this, that in true leadership, it's bringing what you love to the table and inspiring others. And I think that really has helped our culture overall. One last question, I guess I'll just throw at you, Dave. Of all the books we've read this year, what is the one that stands out to you that has made the biggest difference for you?

Atomic Habits.

Atomic Habits. Yeah.

Yeah. Atomic Habits. And that's why I'm relistening to it right now. And in some of these books like Atomic Habits, Good to Great, Psychology of Money, Never Split the Difference, The Gap and The Gain. I'll probably read them every year because I can grind through a book like in 2 weeks. And it's like you read a book the first time, you retain a bunch of it, but you read it a second or a third time and you just get so much more from it. And Atomic Habits is like one of the— I read somewhere it's like one of the top 200 books of all time, like fiction and nonfiction.

Really?

So I didn't realize it was that high up there, but I'm getting a lot more from it this time than I did last. And I want our listeners to know, I'm not spending 4 hours a day listening to and reading books. I probably read for half an hour in the morning. I don't sleep by my phone at all. So I probably read a little more something pleasurable. I'm not reading Atomic Habits before I go to bed. I'm reading something before I go to bed. And if I have downtime during the day, I just pull out a book and Read a couple pages.

So, I'm not spending 3 or 4 hours pouring over books. It's not that much time. It's like exercise, like 20 minutes, a half an hour a day is all you need.

I love it. I love it. Well, this has been a great episode. I'll make sure that we have all the books in the notes section. Reach out if you've read any of them. We'd love to hear your thoughts and comments. And as always, find what you love and bring it to the people that you're leading, the people around you. I think that will When we pour into other people, you know, they pour back into us.

And that's, that's the most important thing. So, thank you guys. This has been a great 100th episode. Those listening, please like and subscribe. We've got lots of great content still coming at you. And Dave, thanks for giving us something great to chat about today.

Absolutely.

Thanks, guys.

Good spending time with you ladies.

Love it.

Thanks, everybody. We'll catch you next time.