Shared Responsibility: Why Workshop Success Depends on Everyone Playing Their Part

In this episode of The Friction-less Workshop, we tackle the age-old complaint that echoes through workshops everywhere: "There are no good people anymore." But is it actually true? Andrew Uglow reveals the uncomfortable reality - yes, it is true, and here's why.

The automotive industry faces a dual crisis: a people shortage (not enough workers) AND a skills shortage (workers lacking necessary abilities). This isn't just about technical skills - it's about foundational values, behaviors, and people skills that previous generations possessed but today's workers often lack.

Andrew explains why this problem is uniquely challenging in automotive: • The industry has experienced exponential technological change unlike any other trade • Cars transformed from mechanical systems with electrical circuits to networked vehicles with mechanical components • New technicians face "drinking from a fire hose" - massive information overload • Cultural clashes and different worldviews compound the skills gap

THE TWO CRITICAL FACTORS:

1. ENVIRONMENT PROBLEMS Workshops often apply financial management methodologies to humans, which simply doesn't work. People need leadership, not just management. The environment must be suitable for humans, considering people factors alongside profit.
2. THE INSTALLATION PROBLEM Modern workers genuinely lack foundational skills and values. If you want people to hold certain values and behaviors, you must actively "install" them. The industry lacks systems and processes for this installation, particularly for people skills versus technical skills.

THE MISSING PIECE: FOREMAN TRAINING

Andrew identifies the critical gap: foremen are trained for technical ability but not people ability. They have face time with technicians, influence with technicians, and the ability to install values and culture - yet they've never been trained how to do this.

The result? Foremen default to "telling" repeatedly, which doesn't work. They lack frameworks, tactics, and good practices for installing information into people who don't have it. They're using a hammer for everything when different situations require different tools.

INTRODUCING THE PROFESSIONAL FOREMAN METHOD:

Andrew unveils his solution - a comprehensive foreman school launching end of October. This program teaches foremen: • How to lead people, not just manage them • How to install culture and values • How to have challenging conversations • How to influence millennials and modern workers • How to do micro-learning effectively • How to facilitate rather than push

The episode emphasizes that quality technicians are directly proportional to business profitability. You need good systems, efficient management, and great customer service - but without good techs, you're nowhere. And developing good techs requires foremen with people ability, not just technical ability.

Key insights include: • Why "bad company corrupts good habits" - underperformers harm team morale • How the 30-year cycle of complaints reveals systemic problems • Why repeating the same explanation doesn't help learning • The difference between pushing people and leading them • How shared responsibility transforms workshop culture

Perfect for workshop owners frustrated by staff quality, service managers dealing with underperformers,

Andrew has a variety of free downloads and tools you can grab.

Discover if your workshop is Retention Worthy© here or visit his website, https://www.solutionsculture.com where the focus is on bringing reliable profitability to automotive workshop owners and workshop management through the Retention, Engagement and Development of their Technical Professionals.

Co-host: Anthony Perl

This podcast was produced by 'Podcasts Done for You' https://podcastsdoneforyou.com.au.

Shared responsibility.

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Why workshop success depends

on everyone playing their part.

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Join passionate automotive trainer

and coach Andrew Uglow as he

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examines the common technician

complaint, the breakdown of shared

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responsibility in modern workshops.

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In this episode, you'll learn why

workshop success requires both technical

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excellence and emotional intelligence.

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Discover how to create accountability

without blame and understand

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why technicians and management.

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Must share ownership of outcomes Along

the way, you'll hear stories about the

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automotive industry's complexity and how

it demands a new approach to teamwork

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and why the old us versus them mentality

is killing workshop profitability.

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I'm your co-host Anthony Pearl, and this

is the Frictionless Workshop podcast.

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Let's get cranking.

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Andrew.

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Here's my.

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Favorite quote that you hear it in

all jobs, and maybe it's because

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we're getting a little bit older, but

there's no good people anymore that

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that specifically in an area that is

quite technical and with this scale of

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development that happens with cars and

managing everything to do with them these

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days, there's no good people anymore.

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That's something that comes

up all the time, isn't it?

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Andrew Uglow: It's funny

you should say that.

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And at risk of, of getting on a soapbox

and, and perhaps this is why I do a

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podcast to, to get on a soapbox, but

when you've been in doing something,

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anything for a long time, you, you,

you start to notice patterns, right?

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You start to notice things, things recur.

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There's, there's cycles

to how things operate.

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Just looking back when I first started in

the industry forever ago, it was really

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hard to find good people and then it

became, it's really hard to find people.

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And then, and that's what we

were hearing from management.

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That's what we're hearing

from workshop owners.

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That's what we're hearing from

industry, industry bodies.

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Oh, there's, it's really hard

to find good people, or it's

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really hard to find people.

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Now I'm hearing this

from other technicians.

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I like, the people that

I work with are peanuts.

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You know, they're really not very good.

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They, they, I, I can't use the exact

words because, you know, language

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warnings on podcasts, but they have

a lot of opportunity to improve.

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And I question, you know.

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Whether they should be in the industry

at all, let alone are they employable.

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It feels like a Monty Python skill.

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It's not what it was in my day exactly,

but, but this is the thing, like if it

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was one person, I'd just go, okay, well

you're just really unlucky to have got a

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bad dude or dude that in your workplace.

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But when I start to hear again, and

again, and again from foreman, from

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technicians, you know, we've got

insert person and they're useless.

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They're absolutely useless.

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I end up fixing all of their problems.

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I end up spending all this extra time.

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I go back to the, the other

things that we've spoken about.

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I'm not getting paid any

more to fix their problems.

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I'm not getting any recognition because

of all the, the things that I do.

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So you can sort of see that these are

recurring loops and cycles within cycles.

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And so there's this lament, you know,

where have all the good people gone.

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And the flip side is these young

people these days, you know,

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that's, that's what they said

about me when I joined the trade.

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Young people these days look

at, they have no discipline.

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They've got, you know, and you

go back and track, like honestly,

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go back and track the things that

tick you off as a service manager.

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What are they?

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Okay, so we've got mistakes.

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Technically we've got lack of

attention, but for also got, they

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didn't turn up, they didn't ring me.

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All of these basic human skills.

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They just disappeared at lunchtime

because they were stressed, because mental

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health, because in the war, in Ukraine,

because global warming, because who knows?

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And we have rules in how we operate.

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And these people don't seem

to fit within these rules.

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They don't seem to hold the same values.

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They don't seem to care

about their reputation.

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They don't seem to perceive the world

the way that we perceive the world.

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And so this whole idea that plays

out for that at a management level.

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But when we look at this through

technician lenses, this guy's

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getting away with everything.

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He does this, he does

this, he doesn't do that.

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He should have done this, da da da da.

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I'm doing all the right things

and we're getting paid the same.

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Hang on a minute, hang on a minute.

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And so you can appreciate,

you know, what's that saying?

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Bad company corrupts good habits That if

I have suboptimal or underperformers in

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my business, there is a time period at

which we want to upskill them or, or get

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rid of them because they will do more

harm than not having a warm body there.

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And sometimes, and I know businesses that

do this, I go, I just need a warm body.

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They create all of this hell.

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And without that, I just simply

can't cope with the amount of work.

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'cause I don't have enough people.

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And the hope is that we can

find or upskill them enough,

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we can progress them enough.

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We can take them from being profoundly

suboptimal to being semi suboptimal.

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And that's kind of the thing.

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And yet possibly, but when I start

hearing this from technicians

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that I don't know about you, but

that raises some red flags for me.

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The people that are

working with these people.

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Even if they've been trade, like I've

had a 30 year apprentice come to me

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and go, all of the other apprentices

in my workshop are just horrendous.

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I dunno why they put them on like,

okay, that I don't know about you,

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but that throws up a whole variety

of questions and red flags for me.

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So going back to the testing, the idea

is there in fact no good people anymore.

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You know, the frustration of working with

not good people, you know, where have all

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the good people gone, young people these

days, all of those versions of that claim.

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Is it true?

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And I'm gonna go, yeah,

it's true without question.

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We, we don't just have a gill shortage in

terms of the number of people available.

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The people that we have

also don't have the skills.

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If feel like we have a people shortage and

we have a skills that people don't have.

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Shortage or issue.

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And so it's a two part thing.

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And so is there a drop in quality

of talent in the workshops?

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I'm gonna go, yeah.

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Yeah, there is.

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And you take that idea and then

you layer over the non incremental,

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the massive exponential change in

technology that's come through cars.

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And even if you go back 10 years, you

know, what's changed for plumbers?

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What's changed for carpenters?

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What's changed for, you

know, air conditioning techs?

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What's changed?

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Like they're sure there's changes,

but nothing like the automotive

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industry has seen like nothing.

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Nothing at all.

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And so not only do we, we now have

people that perhaps don't have the

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people skills, don't have the values,

don't have, uh, comprehension.

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If they've come from another part of

the world, perhaps they don't share the

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same ideals and the same concepts of

what's acceptable and what's not for us.

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And we see that a lot too,

that it's not just a people

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clash, it's a cultural clash.

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And that's to, is, that's a whole

nother kettle of fish, right?

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There's, there's a whole

nother level of skill.

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If I'm a manager slash leader,

how do I lead through that?

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We have that, but we also

have the change in technology.

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And again, automotive,

tragic, automotive light bulb.

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I, I had the benefit of seeing

this incremental change.

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We went from cars being largely

mechanical systems to, with a few

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electrical circuits, you know, lights

and charging systems and spark ignition

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stuff to cars being an entirely networked

vehicle, highly networked vehicle

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with a few mechanical components.

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Yeah, we still got brakes.

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Electric motor.

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Now that does the put.

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Hopefully

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Anthony Perl: we still got

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Andrew Uglow: brakes.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.

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That's a trivial detail.

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You know, that we have mechanical

doors that still open and close.

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You know, they aren't curtains

or force fields or something

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that keep us in the car.

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You know, we haven't gone that far yet,

but there's a few mechanical things in the

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car, but it's now an electrical electronic

device with a few mechanical bit.

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And so I've seen that change gradually

over time for people who step into

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the industry today, like that's like

drinking from a fire hose, you know,

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wrapping your lips around the end of that

nozzle and turning that hose on high.

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It's a lot of information to get

down in a really short space of time.

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And so that just compounds what the

individual is experiencing in trying

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to find their feet in an industry

and underperforming while they do it.

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Anthony Perl: And I think that

the challenge here as well

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is that people coming from.

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Different backgrounds in terms of, you

know, if you came in as a technician

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40 years ago, your perception of how

you learn things and experience things

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along the way is gonna be very different

to someone who's just getting their

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first job now because they're being

trained on a completely new way of

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doing things and a new type of engine.

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So their experience is

always going to be different.

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So they're not gonna make 'em

like they used to because.

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They can't and they shouldn't.

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Andrew Uglow: Right.

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And, and, and so like, if we dive

into this and we start to look at

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things a little bit deeper than

the surface level, and usually

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this is expressed in frustration.

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I've gotta fix up all this person's screw

ups, I've constantly, you know, holding

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their hand and wiping up after them.

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There's two big chunks

that, that are at play.

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The first chunk is the environment

that they're working in.

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People respond to the

environment they work in.

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And if I've got a suboptimal environment,

if I'm applying financial management.

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Methodologies to humans, I'm

never gonna get a good result.

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I just can't.

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It's not possible.

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So I need to have leadership.

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I need to have a, an environment that is

suitable for humans, suitable for people

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that considers those people things.

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Sure I have to make a profit.

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Don't get me wrong, they're parallel, but.

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I, I just find that the environment

that often these people find

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themselves in is not useful.

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It doesn't serve, it doesn't

help, doesn't help the business,

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doesn't help the customers.

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It certainly doesn't help the individual.

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The second element is, the reality

is that people today aren't the same.

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They just aren't.

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Different culture, different world.

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Like we talk about people being tech

dependent, as in technology dependent.

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Like I remember a long time ago on

a galaxy far, far away, when there

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was no internet, we never had it.

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You were left to your own devices

to be resourceful to figure it out.

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Now I just asked chat, Hey, chat.

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How I fix this car?

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Well, Andrew, you need to da da da da.

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And it may or may not be correct, like

AI's been known to hallucinate once

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or twice before, and if I give it bad

information, I get a bad response back.

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And so now it's chat's fault, not mine.

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But the reality is that people

don't have the same foundations.

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The behaviors that we see are

symptoms of things that aren't there.

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And so the reality is, if I

want this person to perform, I'm

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gonna have to do the in install.

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You know, it's like complaining that

my car didn't come with leather seats.

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Well.

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So it doesn't come with leather seats.

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If you want leather seats, you're

gonna have to put them in yourself.

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You know?

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You want the people to hold these values,

you're gonna have to install them.

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That's the reality.

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Sucks to be you.

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Sure.

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But that's the reality.

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Like if you want this, you're

gonna have to do the work.

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And so this becomes a problem because

one, we don't have in the industry,

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we don't have good systems and

processes for doing the install.

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We put them through an apprenticeship

and that does some work.

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That's good.

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That's useful, but it's, it's incomplete.

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It's insufficient.

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We certainly don't have any mechanism

for doing the install for these values

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and skills and behaviors and stuff.

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We have compliance, but that's

not, you know, that's like using

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a hammer to fix everything.

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It's not gonna work well.

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We don't have any training for people

in the business for how to do this.

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We don't have any industry-wide things

that develop this, that look at people and

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go, look, this is how we need to operate.

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If you wanna work in this

environment, you need these skills.

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So let's go and develop those

skills and the people skills,

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not the technical skills.

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Sure, we do technical skills

really well, but we just don't

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do the other side really well.

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And so back to this complaint,

we can either keep bagging

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our head against the wall.

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Having a soy la la moment over

it and complaining, oh, we

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gonna, or we can suck it up.

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You know, we can go, okay,

so they don't have this, how

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am I gonna get that to them?

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And we get the pushback,

oh, well they don't want to,

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they don't this, they don't.

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Yeah.

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Okay.

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That's all very external.

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What are you gonna do about it?

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You know, who's got two thumbs

and holds of responsibility here?

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Well, that's leadership,

that's management.

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So if you are the service

manager, you are the foreman.

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This is on you.

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If we go back historically and

look at how Foreman did, sure.

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They were the technical gurus.

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They were the knowledge holders,

they were the problem solvers.

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They were the ones that did stuff,

but they also led the culture.

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And we don't train them

how to do that anymore.

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That's gone.

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Foreman is Andrew, how much

longer Andrew customers waiting?

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Andrew, why isn't that job done?

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And we have this whole financial framework

over managing people and it just sucks.

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Just as awful.

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It's inappropriate.

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It's like using a hammer to fix

everything and sure, there's

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things that need a hammer.

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There's things that need

a hammer and a run up.

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There's also things that need,

things that need finesse,

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things that don't need a hammer.

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Anthony Perl: Hey, everyone just

interrupting for a moment to remind you

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that the Frictionless Workshop Podcast

is brought to you by Solutions Culture.

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For details on how to get in touch

with Andrew, consult the show notes

272

and don't forget to subscribe so you

don't miss an episode of the podcast.

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Now, back to the show.

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How you sell it in is everything, right,

and the funny thing is, is they know

275

how to do that when it comes to the car.

276

It's how they do it with the individual.

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Because you know, we were talking

before, come in and you go, okay,

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say to me, you need new breaks.

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Now if they say you need new breaks, but.

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You need it in the next six months is very

different to the urgency of saying, look,

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your breaks are down to the final bits.

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You need to get your breaks

done in the next week.

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Otherwise you risk having

a serious accident.

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Yeah.

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And selling it to me that way goes,

okay, let's do the breaks now.

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Let's get onto it.

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I can't put this off.

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And it's the same way that

you have to deal with.

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Technicians in wanting them to develop

and do more things along the way.

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It's how you sell it into them.

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When you get that complaint saying

you know that you're just banging

292

your head against a brick wall, that

they're not really that interested

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how you sell it might be the key

to what the response is from them.

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Andrew Uglow: Sure.

295

I'm gonna offer, what we have is,

if you imagine two axes, right?

296

The first axes is technical skill.

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Technical ability.

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I like the word ability better.

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'cause ability is skill

times knowledge, right?

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It's what I can actually produce.

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So we have this machine that over

time produces technical ability.

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Okay.

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So if we look at the scale of things and,

and where we expect our people to be, we

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expect 'em to be high technical ability.

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And so that's efficiency,

that's professionalism,

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that's fixed versus visits.

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All those metrics that we track.

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Conversely, for leadership, we don't

have really, we have management

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as the other horizontal, and

it's kind of one or the other.

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We have high management skill

or high technical ability.

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And if we zoom in and go back to the idea

of, well, who's responsible for this?

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Sure.

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It's the management.

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Without question management

of the business, management of

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the workshop, without question,

the buck stops with them.

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And, well, what have they

put in place to do this?

317

Because the service manager's got

a thousand different things to

318

manage and putting out fires and

doing all the stuff that they do.

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What system have we got in

place to look after this?

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And there's some, there's some stuff

and there's some leadership that, that

321

we see coming through and I go, you

know, 80 20, 20% of businesses do this.

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Well, 80% not yet.

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I go back into the piece

that's missing in all this.

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The piece that's been overlooked in

all this is the foreman who has the

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face time with the technicians, the

foreman who has the influence with the

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technicians, the foreman who has the

ability to do the install of the values

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and the behaviors and the the methods,

and the way we roll the cultural things.

328

Well, that's the foreman's job.

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Sure.

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They have the technical responsibility

as well, but we've never trained

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them to do the people part.

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We've never given them people ability.

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We've given them technical ability.

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We've never given them people ability.

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And so this is one of the things I feel

like I'm, I'm on my soapbox all over

336

again, but this is one of the things

that, what's the word I'm looking for?

337

I confounds me is why haven't we trained

our, our foreman on how to do this?

338

Like, have we expect high

technical ability yet?

339

Great.

340

But that's not their role.

341

And that alone is not their role.

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And using them for that

is to underutilize them.

343

The reality is we should be teaching

them to how to influence people,

344

how to deal with the human side of

things, how to install values, how

345

to install culture, how to install

professionalism, how to do micro learning.

346

So that, and again, back to the idea that

I get feedback from Foreman, I've told

347

him again and again and again and again,

okay, so you keep telling him, telling

348

isn't working, what else should you do?

349

And they'd look at me blankly.

350

'cause they don't have anything else.

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No one's explained to them.

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This is how you install information

into someone who doesn't have it.

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They don't have a framework for that.

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They don't have a tactic for that.

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They don't even have

good practice for that.

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We just, just get outta

hammer and start banging.

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And we're surprised we're not.

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Anthony Perl: We just keep work.

359

And how often is it that people

could just keep explaining the

360

same thing in the same way?

361

And that's not going to make it any

clearer for someone who doesn't know.

362

You have to change your approach to how

you're delivering that information and the

363

explanation and the information you make

available to them to be able to learn.

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Otherwise, you're just repeating.

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Andrew Uglow: Right, and, and I

go back to what's your goal here?

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Really as of this is what's your outcome?

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Are you just there to make money?

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Well, we've been doing that for

decades and look at the state of

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their people and I think that we need

to perhaps have a good hard look.

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And this plays right up and down.

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The, the idea of leadership

is have a good hard look.

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'cause if we don't take care of

people, no one else is going to.

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We can't expect people to come

into our business with all the

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pieces that we want them to have

because that doesn't exist anymore.

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So we can so about it and go, oh, this and

all that, and we can cycle through people

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and we can invest a million dollars plus a

year on staff turn if we want to, or maybe

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we could invest less than that and start

to work about developing the people side

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of things and make that part of people's.

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KPI.

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Hey, look, Anthony, we want you

to learn how to manage people.

381

We want you to learn

how to install culture.

382

We want you to learn how

to do micro learning.

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Anthony, we want you to be able to manage

customers as part of your role as a, a

384

senior tech or a foreman or a controller.

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Andrew, we want you to

be able lead millennials.

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Well, let's, let me show you

how you do that, because.

387

Until we do, I don't know about you,

but I just see a self repeating cycle.

388

I see the same complaint that we've

been banging on about for 30 years plus

389

happening again and again and again.

390

I mean,

391

Anthony Perl: I think if you were to

jump in a time machine and go back 30

392

or 40 years and you were to have this

conversation with them, they'd probably

393

be saying exactly the same thing.

394

Oh, we just can't get good people anymore.

395

It's a story that we've been

telling for so long that it almost

396

becomes compulsory to tell the story

rather than to address the problem.

397

Andrew Uglow: Right.

398

It's, yeah, it's easier to have a

complaint than it is to, what is it?

399

I must do something always achieves

more than something must be done.

400

And so I've taken this very personally.

401

Anthony, just as we wrap up this idea,

this is not a small, trivial thing for me.

402

This has been burning my butt for years.

403

Like, how do we solve this problem?

404

How do we get around this?

405

How do we facilitate outstanding

financial performance for businesses

406

when all of the things are tightening?

407

Because they are like, pick one.

408

Like this is what I'm

saying about automotive.

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If you can be successful in automotive

with everything stacked against you and

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still be successful, what can't you do?

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So given that environment,

how do we run better?

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How do we operate better?

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How do we, given that it's, it's all the

things that it is, how do we do that well?

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And ultimately it comes

down to the technicians.

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In any workshop, the quality of my

technicians are directly proportional

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to the profitability of my business.

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Sure I need good, efficient management.

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Sure, I need great systems.

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Sure I need great customer service people.

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That all helps amplify

what the technicians do.

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But if I don't have

good techs, I'm nowhere.

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And I go back to, well, whose job

is it not to train the technicians?

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Whose job is it to

develop the technicians?

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And that goes back to the service manager.

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And more specifically, it

goes back to the foreman.

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Sure we want foreman that are high

technical without question, but we

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need them to be high people as well.

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And we get that by training them and

there's nothing there is absolutely zero.

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I can send them to TAFE and they

can do a cert four and workplace

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leadership or workplace business

management or workplace, whatever it

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is, and okay, nice piece of paper.

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And they'll learn some stuff,

but it doesn't cut the mustard.

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It's not what they need.

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So I've gone and doubled down on this.

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I have far out, I have invested enormous

amounts of time, research, energy.

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The reason I know all these complaints

is I've been testing this over years

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with people, and so I've developed

essentially what is a foreman school.

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How do you get your foreman up in

the scale of people ability when

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you send them to foreman's school?

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Like you would send them to trade

school to learn the technical, well

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send them to foreman school to learn

the the other side, the people side.

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And so we've developed a program

called the Professional Foreman Method,

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literally right about to launch.

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So this is, if you're watching

this or listening to this,

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this is October, early October.

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We plan to be launching by the end

of the month and taking enrollments

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for, how do you train your foreman?

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Well, this is how you train your foreman.

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This is, I'm gonna argue the first

time that I know of that there is a

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foreman school that we teach, foreman

and controllers how to manage people.

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Not how to manage business, not

how to manage technical ability.

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We'll help with that for sure, but

this is how to manage people how

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to, or better, how to lead people,

how to install the culture, how to

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have the challenging conversations,

how to get these millennials

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to do what you want them to do.

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Well, what if they wanted to do it?

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Wouldn't that be easier?

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Wouldn't that be a better solution?

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Instead of me pushing these people,

wouldn't it be better if I led them,

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if I facilitated them doing their job?

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Wouldn't that be a far more

sensible way to approach this?

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Instead of push, push, push, push,

bang, bang, bang, or the hammer.

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Because it's not working.

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What we're doing now positively

is not sure we get some results,

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but gee whiz, for what effort?

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What time, what cost?

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Anthony Perl: That almost

brings our technician series

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to a powerful conclusion.

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But Andrew's got one

more critical insight to.

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In our next episode, we are diving

into what happens when the diagnostic

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approach meets real world implementation.

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We'll explore the complaint that

management doesn't understand

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what it's really like and reveal

practical strategies for bridging the

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communication gap between technicians.

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And decision makers.

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Andrew shares specific tools for

translating technical challenges

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into business language and creating

win-win solutions that actually work.

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Plus, we'll look at workshops that have

successfully implemented these challenges

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and the dramatic results they've achieved.

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The implementation gap drops in a

couple of weeks, so make sure you are

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subscribed so you never miss an episode.

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This is the Frictionless Workshop Podcast,

produced by podcast done for you online.

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All details in the show notes.