In this episode of The Friction-less Workshop, Andrew Uglow explores the invisible patterns that lead to

workshop burnout and lost profit. He breaks down the foreman capability gap and explains why traditional

training often fails the people who run the workshop floor. Andrew shares insights on how to use

micro-coaching to reduce unforced errors and improve comeback rates, potentially adding six figures to

your bottom line. You will learn about the duck on the pond syndrome and why resourcing your foreman for

the people part of their job is the key to long-term retention and profitability.

Contact details:

Andrew has a variety of free downloads and tools you can grab:

Discover if your workshop is Retention Worthy© here or visit his website, https://www.solutionsculture.com where the focus is on bringing reliable profitability to automotive workshop owners and workshop management through the Retention, Engagement and Development of their Technical Professionals.

Co-host: Anthony Perl

Produced by: 'Podcasts Done for You'

Installing foreman effectiveness without tanking the month.

2

Join passionate automotive trainer

and coach Andrew Uglow as he

3

tackles one of the hardest questions

facing service departments.

4

How do you close the foreman

capability gap without pulling a

5

critical person out of the workshop

and creating even more chaos?

6

In this episode, you'll learn why

training alone is not enough, why coaching

7

works differently, and why the first

improvements often show up in the silly

8

mistakes, unforced errors, and comebacks

that quietly drain the bottom line.

9

Discover how micro moments,

practical frameworks, and ongoing

10

accountability can help foreman build

capability while staying connected

11

to the real work of the workshop.

12

Along the way, you'll hear why

automotive may be one of the few

13

performance-driven industries still

underusing coaching where it matters most.

14

I'm your co-host Anthony Pearl, and this

is the Frictionless Workshop podcast.

15

Let's get cranking.

16

Andrew Uglow: Andrew, let's

talk about this concept of

17

Anthony Perl: installing foreman

effectiveness without tanking the month.

18

And I know we've alluded

to it in previous episodes.

19

There's a bunch of research and

things that you want to bring out in

20

this particular episode as well, so.

21

But let's start by understanding what

this is, installing foreman effectiveness.

22

What does that actually mean?

23

And then how do you do it

without tanking the month?

24

Andrew Uglow: Yeah.

25

So-

26

It's funny.

27

I don't-- I feel a little bit like,

and I'm sure I've said this before,

28

uh, Haley Joel Osment from the movie

"The Sixth Sense" with Samuel L.

29

Jackson and Bruce Willis.

30

And there's a scene, it's like a critical

scene in the movie where Haley Joel

31

Osment unpacks this enormous burden that

he carries, and he sort of says in this

32

quiet whisper, like hesitant, worried

about the pushback that he's gonna get.

33

He says, "I see dead people,

and they talk to me, but they

34

don't know that they're dead."

35

And I feel a little bit like that because

you ask me these questions, Anthony,

36

and I go, "Anthony, I see patterns,

and other people can't see them, and

37

they don't know that they're there."

38

And so you, you go, "Well,

how do I install foremanship

39

without screwing my month over?"

40

And, and it's not just the figures, right?

41

Sure, it's the figures

that, that matters, right?

42

We're a business.

43

We're not there because we wanna

hold hands and beat drums and

44

give primal screams and get in

touch with our inner child, right?

45

We're there to make money.

46

Like that's, it's, it's a financial game.

47

But it's also the customer.

48

You know.

49

You know what it's like

to be without your car.

50

You know the stress and the, and the

grief that happens when your car isn't

51

available or breaks down or what…

52

Like this is a, this is a big issue.

53

This ripples into all sorts of

different areas that, again, that's

54

perhaps a discussion over a, over

a beverage in a venue somewhere.

55

But we haven't…

56

Firstly, the first point to

make is we haven't installed

57

effectiveness for foremen.

58

We have a capability gap, and it

shows up in all of the elements

59

that we don't have measures for.

60

So staff turn, technician engagement,

trust, reliability, attitude, experience.

61

These are all symptoms of

the foreman capacity gap.

62

And so the challenge becomes for dealers,

"Okay, so I'm, I'm gonna close my gap.

63

How do I do it?"

64

If I take my foreman out of the

workshop, I just compound my problems.

65

If I go, "Foreman, go to a

two-day training class, and we'll,

66

we'll kind of save everything

for you for when you get back."

67

And the foreman comes back to a…

68

Well, there's the, the stuff's

hit the fan and there's a very

69

unpleasant brown mist in the air.

70

It's a right mess.

71

And, and the foreman's now scrambling.

72

They're so busy trying to solve stuff and

fix stuff and get things back on an even

73

keel that they don't get the opportunity

to go and practice what they do.

74

They're back in this rush, urgency stuff.

75

S- and at the same time, the business

just lost a foreman for however

76

many days of productivity, and

that has a very significant impact.

77

And Deloitte's talking about

this, and Errol, again, if you're

78

listening to this episode, Errol

from, from Complete Dealer Services,

79

we- we're seeing people with a 0.4

80

margin on their gross, on

their, on the dealership gross.

81

Now, 0.4,

82

that doesn't give you

a lot of margin, right?

83

You, you, you're really riding

the ragged edges of disaster.

84

You take someone that, that has a

direct impact on profitability and

85

productivity out of the business

for two days, I mean, ouch.

86

Like, anyone who's even loosely

in touch with their inner Scotsman

87

is turning pale and shaking

their head going, "No, no, no."

88

You know?

89

I'd just…

90

Can't, you can't afford to do that.

91

So th- this-- and, and, and

here's the crunch, right?

92

We don't measure the failures.

93

We don't have a line item for stuff

that went wrong in the workshop

94

that cost me a lot of money, and

there's a dollar figure there.

95

We, we don't have a line item for that.

96

So we've got this unmeasured

component creating this influence

97

that I'm not addressing, but I'm

still suffering the consequences of.

98

And so the solution, and finally

they're going, "Andrew, finally

99

he's getting to the solution."

100

The solution isn't to do training.

101

The solution is to do coaching,

because coaching leaves my

102

foreman in the business.

103

I can take them out in small chunks,

so micro moments, hour and a half,

104

and I can work with the foreman at a

personal level, and I can help them

105

learn the skills that they need to know,

practice the skills that they need to know

106

so that they're not conducting ungodly

experiments on the technical team, right?

107

They get to practice it with a coach.

108

They can understand the frameworks

and the pieces that were missing

109

for them because when I talk to

foremen and I ask, you know, they

110

tell me about all these problems.

111

You know, they, "I told

them once 1,000 times.

112

I told them this, this is

happening, that's happening.

113

My service advisors are this and

my service manager's that, and the,

114

the parts people are, are suboptimal

and, and da, da, da, da, da," and

115

they, they've got all these stresses.

116

And, and I go, "Well, how

are you gonna manage that?"

117

And they just, they look at me blankly.

118

They don't have a structure.

119

They don't have a framework.

120

They don't have a, a means to

address the capability gap that

121

they are experiencing personally.

122

Now, hear me right.

123

We're not suggesting that the workshop

operation is an absolute nightmare.

124

It runs well enough.

125

It does okay.

126

We hit the numbers.

127

We do good.

128

But I go back to what I said in one of

the earlier episodes where the foreman

129

is, and even the service manager, it's

the duck on the pond, calm, serene,

130

but under the water paddling like nuts.

131

And that has a cost which doesn't

show up on your spreadsheet, but

132

it does show up when they leave or

break down or throw in the towel.

133

"I'm not gonna be foreman anymore.

134

I've had enough.

135

Put me back on the tools."

136

And I guarantee you that there are

hundreds if not thousands of service

137

managers out there listening to this who

that has been their exact experience.

138

And so how do you install

foreman capability?

139

Well, you do it with coaching.

140

Coaching, Anthony, you tell me

141

How effective is coaching?

142

Anthony Perl: It, it, it's so incredibly

effective, and for those listening in,

143

that's how Andrew and I first met, was

through shared coaching at the time.

144

It's something that personally I believe

every business owner should have, and

145

certainly I can see the value at the

level that we're talking about here.

146

Coaching is something that filters

all the way through, because if

147

you don't have a coach, you're just

winging it- Yeah … and you're not

148

having the opportunity to learn from

others and the mistakes they've made.

149

And it's funny how, again, I'm gonna

use the football analogy, it's funny

150

how we accept it from, you know, under

fives all the way through to, you know,

151

right through to international level.

152

We all accept that there is a coach, even

though, particularly at international

153

level, these are the best of the

best, but they still have a coach.

154

And that's true in business as well as it

is in sport, and it's true for a reason.

155

Andrew Uglow: Yeah.

156

Right.

157

You take the elite tennis players,

how many coaches do they have?

158

You take the elite cricketers,

how many coaches do they…

159

How many different coaches are

there for your football team?

160

Like, if you want performance, there's

a reason that, that, I don't know, who

161

do you, who do you barrack for in NRL?

162

Anthony Perl: I'm a Manly fan.

163

All right.

164

So I'm, I'm, I'm the one

that everyone else hates.

165

That's, that's the- Yeah,

166

Andrew Uglow: okay … that's the truth.

167

We still need it.

168

I, I, I appreciate that.

169

I'm a Collingwood fan too, so I, you

know, it's, it's, I just have more teeth

170

and, and less tattoos than most of them.

171

But the- there's a reason

that they don't- Performance.

172

Yeah, they have fitness trainers, sure,

but they have fitness coaches, and they

173

have mindset coaches, and dietary coaches.

174

They have…

175

They, they do it through a coaching frame.

176

Here you go, Anthony.

177

Uh, a question without

notice, on the spot.

178

Show me an industry that doesn't

use coaching to get performance.

179

Anthony Perl: Struggle to find one?

180

Andrew Uglow: I can think of two

181

Politics.

182

Although arguably they do have speech

coaches, dress coaches, all that sort

183

of stuff so they look and sound good.

184

Anthony Perl: Depends where

185

Andrew Uglow: you are.

186

I think- But that doesn't mean

that they know what they're doing

187

Anthony Perl: And, and, well, I

think, I think there is an important

188

differentiation too between coaching and

mentoring, and I think there's probably

189

some of those that it would exist in,

in the political landscape that might be

190

more in the mentoring category but not-

191

Andrew Uglow: Yeah, sure

192

Anthony Perl: necessarily coaching.

193

And I think that is an important

thing and perhaps speaks to the

194

level of politicians we have.

195

But let's, let's not go into politics.

196

Andrew Uglow: Yeah.

197

Because I don't know about you,

but I, I find myself a little

198

bit upset for, for reasons.

199

Yeah, so th- yeah, the two

industries, yeah, two industries were

200

politics and, and something else.

201

The second industry that

doesn't use it is automotive

202

And I, again, I have one of

those Microsoft blue circles.

203

It's like why?

204

Why isn't there coaching

for service managers?

205

Like, I'm not just talking intervention

teams, I'm talking ongoing development

206

for leadership, for financial

management, for skills management, for…

207

Like, why don't we

co-chair service advisors?

208

And sure, we come in and we do

a training program or a coaching

209

program, but is that enough?

210

Is that, is that really working?

211

And better than nothing, but gosh, how

much can you learn in a one-day session?

212

Can you take someone who is a suboptimal

operator and turn them into an optimal

213

operator or a near optimal operator?

214

I'm gonna argue no.

215

Anthony Perl: Well, one of the

important things that happens in a

216

one-day event is that you get really

excited, and you walk away from

217

that day and go, "This is fantastic.

218

I've learned this, this, and this."

219

But two weeks later, you haven't had

a chance to do anything about it.

220

Three weeks later, you've

forgotten all about it.

221

Coaching is the difference because it's

ongoing and it's, as you say, it's small,

222

manageable chunks that you can implement

slowly but surely and have positive change

223

that happens, and there's a level of

c- accountability- Yeah … that can go

224

alongside of that which is so critical.

225

Andrew Uglow: The Frictionless Workshop

226

Anthony Perl: podcast is brought

to you by Solutions Culture.

227

For details on how to get in touch with

Andrew, consult the show notes below.

228

And don't forget to subscribe

so you don't miss an episode.

229

Now, back to the podcast.

230

Andrew Uglow: Accountability is

vital, but also the ability to talk

231

to someone not in the business and

go, "Hey, I'm really struggling with

232

this and I don't know what to do."

233

Because that's a really hard conversation

to have with your manager, because how

234

many managers know how to look after that?

235

Leaders might, maybe.

236

But I don't know too many people

that go to HR and go, "Oh look,

237

I'm having a really bad day.

238

Can you help me?"

239

Certainly technicians because…

240

And, and perhaps, look, I know that

this is a generational thing for sure,

241

that the, your, your millennials,

your Zeds, and your, your soon to

242

be alphas are far more in touch with

their inner person and their, their

243

feelings and sensations, and are more

likely to complain and talk about that.

244

But certainly for Xs like myself and,

and even some Ys, you don't, you don't.

245

That's a sign of weakness.

246

You don't, you don't do that.

247

And conversely, where it is you

millennials and your Zeds that are doing

248

this, well, do you have an effective

method and framework for helping them

249

manage that, to, to manage their state?

250

We spoke about triage earlier.

251

Well, do you have some, some strategies

and tactics that when they're not

252

having a good time, when they're

really, really struggling, well,

253

they've actually got some resource

that they can turn to that can help

254

them get them back on track rather

than just taking a mental health day?

255

Not that there's anything inherently

wrong with that, but from a financial

256

perspective, that doesn't give

you the numbers that you need.

257

And so I wanna point to-- We, we talk

about how to, how to get effectiveness,

258

foreman effectiveness, how to

close the foreman capability gap.

259

We, you do it with coaching.

260

And here we go, shameless self-promotion.

261

Um, I designed a coaching

program specifically for foremen.

262

It doesn't work for anyone else.

263

It was never intended to.

264

It doesn't work for service managers,

it doesn't work for service advisors,

265

it doesn't work for your parts team.

266

It just is for foremen because

foremen are the middle child.

267

And I, I, I don't say that to be

critical, I say that 'cause it's reality.

268

Your apprentices get all this attention,

they get all this training, they

269

get all this coaching, they get all

this mentoring, and they need it.

270

And the technicians get all this technical

training, they get these resources,

271

they get all this help and support.

272

And the foreman gets that, but they

don't get anything for the 80% of

273

their job, which is the people part.

274

And I, I don't know about

you, but that blows my mind.

275

I just go, "You, really?"

276

That's a, that's a face

palm moment, you know?

277

It's like, "No, what?"

278

Much like you, you're not tracking

the types of comebacks you have.

279

Really?

280

And, and so we call it the Professional

Foreman Method, and it is a coaching

281

program designed for foremen to

increase foreman effectiveness

282

and close the foreman capability

gap, and we do it with coaching.

283

Now, I'm a trainer.

284

I've had to go and learn how

to coach because training

285

isn't going to solve this.

286

And I can say that as someone

who's been training automotive

287

professionals and automotive

technical professionals for decades.

288

If I was to count up, and w- we did a

fairly subjective count just recently, I'm

289

closing on 40,000 technical professionals

I've had in my training class.

290

So I know what works and I know

what doesn't work, and training

291

doesn't work for foremen.

292

Simple as that.

293

Let me throw in a Deloitte for you.

294

So Deloitte's are very big with their

Academy of Excellence and a whole

295

bunch of other courses that they run.

296

They are very, very big on data, as you

would be from an a- an accounting firm.

297

There was a, recently a article in

GoAuto, and I, I wanna lay out Lee Peters.

298

So Lee Peters is a, a partner at

Deloitte's, and they were looking at

299

the financial state of, of the business.

300

I'm looking at the article

as just a, a brief summary of

301

what they were talking about.

302

But the net result was that there is

a very distinct difference between

303

the top 30% of dealers and others, and

that line is splitting, it's diverging.

304

And whilst everyone has access to the

technology, everyone has access to the

305

data, everyone has access to the systems,

everyone has best practice processes,

306

KPIs, benchmarks, all of the other things

that towards helping a dealership perform.

307

Mr.

308

Peter's description of, well,

how do we address this gap?

309

How do we, one, keep the people

who are performing, performing?

310

And how do we then help the people

who are not yet performing at what

311

they're capable of to perform?

312

He makes this statement and he

says, "The path ahead is defined

313

by strategic productivity and

robust talent management."

314

Earlier on, he says that talent attraction

and retention emerge as decisive factors.

315

So d- don't take it from

me, take it from Mr.

316

Peters, who's a bit of

a guru, can I offer?

317

If you're not creating the people

that you need in the business

318

you're at a huge disadvantage because

the businesses that are doing well,

319

they're not just finding the right people.

320

Sure, there's some of that.

321

They're making the right people.

322

So how do you make the right people?

323

You coach them

324

And you coach them for as long as it takes

to get the results, because they will.

325

Coaching doesn't produce an outcome

overnight, not like training can.

326

Coaching is a commitment, but

it also produces better results.

327

It helps cement in terms of

retention, because the person's

328

got a reason to be there.

329

We spoke about reward,

recognition, and resources.

330

If you'd say to your foreman,

"Hey, appreciate that you've

331

got a really tough job.

332

We'd love to get you a coach who

can help you perform in this job."

333

How do you reckon they feel?

334

Do they feel recognized?

335

Do they feel rewarded?

336

Do they feel resourced?

337

And if you've got a quality foreman

now or a foreman that's working

338

on their quality, well, that's

gonna cascade down into your team.

339

It cannot not if the

coaching is effective.

340

And so Anthony asked me a

question about what I should be

341

tracking when I coach my foreman.

342

Anthony Perl: Should

you be tracking, Andrew?

343

Andrew Uglow: Great question, Anthony

344

One of the first things that shifts,

one of the first things that shifts

345

is the amount, tennis call it unforced

errors, but it's the amount of

346

silly mistakes that slipped through.

347

And so that'll show up internally, like

the ones that you caught, but it'll also

348

show up in the ones that the customer

caught and came back upset about.

349

That'll be the first thing.

350

Deloitte's talk about a, a 15, 12

to 15% or 12 to 17% comeback, right?

351

Because there's parts

outside of their control.

352

We'd like zero, right?

353

But you watch that number in six

months start to shift, and I, I--

354

Well, you would know your gross

profit out of the business, out of

355

the workshop over a 12-month period.

356

If you could add 3%, 5% to that

gross profit number, what would

357

that do to your bottom line?

358

Because that's exactly what's happening.

359

This is, this is going

straight onto your bottom line.

360

What would that be worth?

361

And it's a very healthy six figure.

362

It's a very healthy six figure, and that's

the first thing that moves when your

363

foreman capacity gap starts to shrink

364

Anthony Perl: Yeah, Andrew, just

to wrap this up, there's probably a

365

question that people are asking as

well in regards to this whole idea

366

of coaching, because it is gonna take

them off the floor at certain times.

367

So how much risk and

damage can that cause?

368

Because you have to manage that process

as well because hopefully they can now see

369

the end result and the benefits of doing

it, but how do you manage that component

370

of taking them away from the job for a

period of time, whether it's an hour and

371

a half here and there, or whether it's,

you know, two or three hours at a time?

372

Andrew Uglow: So this comes back to

how well you load your workshop, and

373

you can load the workshop in a way

that facilitates the foreman having

374

some, I, I don't like to use the

word free time, but having some time

375

allocated specifically for this We

do the coaching Tuesdays, Wednesdays,

376

and Thursdays simply because Mondays

and Fridays are challenging enough.

377

We have Tow-in Monday

and Panic Friday, right?

378

Tow-in Monday, there's all this

unallocated or unexpected work rocks

379

up, which is great, we love the

work, but it loads the workshop in

380

a way that, well, maybe we planned

for, maybe we didn't plan for it.

381

Um, and then of course, Panic

Friday, it's all got to be done.

382

We've got to get…

383

It's, it's close that work in progress,

close the week, you know, get, get stuff

384

out, invoice, get the money in, right?

385

The, the, it's, it's a, it's a real thing.

386

And so the foreman has enough to

do on the Mondays and Fridays.

387

And so typically we find Tuesday and

Wednesday, late morning is good because

388

the day is already set and structured.

389

There's an opportunity then for the

foreman to go, "Well, do not disturb

390

for a, a very short period of time,"

an hour-ish, and they can go and

391

invest the time they haven't…

392

Well, hopefully they haven't had the,

the, uh, thousand spot fires to put

393

out before they get into the training,

so they're in a good mental state

394

to be able to, to participate in the

training, in the coaching, I should say.

395

And the goal is that this

is hardcore practical.

396

Like, if you can't use it…

397

Like, you've got to understand

structure, you've got to understand

398

the tactics and strategy.

399

Now that you understand what's

going on, how do you do it?

400

Well, yeah, that's what we talk about.

401

And I point to some of the things that

we've, we've mentioned in this, you know,

402

the TATS framework, the, the 1-3-1, the if

I do this, if I would you kind of thing.

403

If I do this for you, would

you do that for me, or can you

404

help me here kind of thing.

405

These are some of the basic frameworks

that we teach, and they're not

406

necessarily rocket science, but

they're profoundly effective, and

407

they all create those one percenters.

408

And it's those one percenters that are

the difference that makes the difference.

409

W- with a couple of exceptions, the, the

industry has emerged or evolved beyond I

410

can make a change and I see a 25% increase

in my bottom line from one or two things.

411

And, and look, it can happen, but

usually those dealers are profoundly

412

dysfunctional at some level.

413

And I, I don't mean to be

critical, but that's the reality.

414

For the most part,

dealerships are run well-ish.

415

They're good-ish.

416

They're not horrendous.

417

They're not the nightmare operation

that perhaps sometimes it sounds

418

like I make them out to be.

419

But- It's this 1% and that 1%

and that 1%, and before I know

420

it, I've got a 7% movement.

421

Now, some of that's top line, some

of that's bottom line, but the net

422

result is it's, it's an improvement.

423

And once I can move the needle

in that regard, it's now,

424

well, how do I keep the needle?

425

How do I keep that gain?

426

And these are the sorts of discussions

foremen are profoundly resourceful.

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Generally speaking, there's a couple that

struggle, but profoundly resourceful.

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And so asking them that question, you'd

be surprised at the brilliant ideas

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and the simple effectiveness that they

come up with because they've had to

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learn this on cars, and a lot of those

frameworks that they learned on cars map

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to people and map to systems particularly.

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Anthony Perl: So Andrew, just to wrap

things up, I know you've got a boot

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camp that you can tell people about.

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We will include details in the

show notes about it, but do

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you wanna fill everyone in?

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Andrew Uglow: I run a, a series of

boot camps specifically for workshop

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foremen, and we unpack … Th- there

is actually, well, not hundreds,

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but th- 46 different frameworks or

thereabouts that we cover when we

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do the professional foreman method.

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So we unpack some of those or parts of

some of those in the boot camp, and we

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typically target the ones that are causing

the foreman the most harm or the most

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grief or the most stress or the- doing

the most head damage for the foreman.

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And so we, we do boot

camps semi-regularly.

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So if you've heard this, I'd

encourage you to encourage your

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foreman to go and check us out.

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If you look up Solutions Culture on the

internet, I'm pretty easy to find, or

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look up me, Andrew Uvlov on LinkedIn.

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We want foremen to perform because

it's all the difference that makes the

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difference, and it's low-hanging fruit.

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Anthony Perl: Thank you for listening

to the Frictionless Workshop podcast.

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For details on how to get Andrew

working with you and your technicians,

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take a look at the show notes.

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There's also a link to some

special content you can access.

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I'm Anthony Pearl reminding you to

subscribe so you don't miss an episode.