In this episode, we examine the common frustration of workshop leaders who feel they have to repeat instructions a

thousand times without seeing results. Andrew Uglow reveals why the issue is rarely the information itself, but rather the

delivery and the emotional state of the person receiving it. He introduces the TATS framework, which stands for Triage,

Action, and Test, as a structured way to ensure that instructions are not only heard but correctly understood and

implemented.

Andrew explains the critical importance of the triage phase, where the emotional state of both the foreman and the

technician must be managed before any meaningful communication can occur. He shares personal stories from his time as

a technician to demonstrate how a lack of clear instruction and testing can lead to embarrassment, stress, and repeated

mistakes. The discussion also covers the hidden costs of inaction and the importance of closing the capacity gap for

workshop foremen to prevent burnout and improve overall flow.

What You Will Learn:

• Why the meaning of a conversation depends entirely on the hearer's understanding

• How the TATS framework can eliminate the mechanical butt kicking machine

• What the triage phase involves and why it is the most skipped step in communication

• Why technicians need to know the why behind an action to be successful

• How to use the verbal test to ensure instructions are correctly installed in a technician's mind

• What the hidden cost of inaction looks like on your workshop's bottom line

Key Takeaways:

• The importance of building respect and rapport before giving instructions

• How to identify if a technician is in a state to actually process information

• The role of the Quality Information Model in improving service advisor to foreman handovers

• Why blaming technicians for mistakes is often a sign of poor communication delivery

• How to move from a reactive cycle to a proactive, friction-less workshop environment

Notable Quotes:

• "The meaning of any conversation is on what the hearer understands, not what the speaker said."

• "If my instructions are bad, my results are gonna be bad."

• "We want to test that what you heard and what I said are the same thing."

• "Meaning gets installed when they have to make sense of it internally before they can explain it externally."

Andrew has a variety of free downloads and tools you can grab.

Discover if your workshop is Retention Worthy here or visit his website, https://www.solutionsculture.com

(https://www.solutionsculture.com) where the focus is on bringing reliable profitability to automotive workshop owners and

workshop management through the Retention, Engagement and Development of their Technical Professionals.

This podcast was produced by 'Podcasts Done for You' https://commtogether.com.au (https://commtogether.com.au)

The TATS Strategy: Solving the Efficiency Crisis

2

with Triage, Action, and Testing.

3

Join passionate automotive trainer

and coach Andrew Uglow as he

4

exposes the hidden costs of poor

communication and ineffective

5

information flow in the workshop.

6

In this episode, you'll learn the

three pillars of the TATS framework,

7

discover why your instructions aren't

yielding the results you expect, and

8

understand how to align your team

to boost morale and productivity.

9

Along the way, you'll hear

powerful lessons from the field,

10

including a cautionary tale about

a heater box repair that highlights

11

exactly why triage and testing are

non-negotiable for any business.

12

I'm your co-host Anthony Pearl and this

is the Frictionless Workshop podcast.

13

Let's get cranking.

14

So I love a good acronym.

15

Andrew, I know you've written one down

here for me too, as a talking point

16

here, and we're talking about TATS.

17

And at first I thought, "Wait, does it-

Are we assuming everyone's got tattoos?

18

Is it, is that what it's all about?"

19

But no it's not that, but perhaps this is

the thing, and you're gonna explain it.

20

Maybe it should be emblazoned

all over everybody because

21

this is the problem, right?

22

Andrew Uglow: Right.

23

So TATS is the strategy or the

structure that we use to address this

24

issue of, "I've told them a thousand

times and I'm not getting a result."

25

And so TATS stands for

Triage, Action, Testing.

26

And again, I say this with empathy to

technicians, and I say this with empathy

27

to foremen as well because for the

technician, when the foreman comes to

28

me and tells me to do something and I

don't understand, or I don't completely

29

understand, or I think I do, and I go

and do what I thought was the right thing

30

and it turns out to be the wrong thing,

and now I'm the one that has to back up

31

to the mechanical butt-kicking machine.

32

Or I'm the one that looks like a peanut,

and I get the public humiliation and

33

the shame and the shade because I did

what I thought was right, and it wasn't

34

right, but I didn't know it wasn't right.

35

And so for the technicians, I

have profound empathy because

36

if my instructions are bad,

my results are gonna be bad.

37

It's just y- like you can get lucky, and

I've been lucky, but it's really hard.

38

For the foreman, no one ever taught them,

quote unquote, "how to tell people."

39

The issue here is not the information.

40

The information is super

important, super, super important.

41

But the issue isn't the information.

42

The issue is how the information is

delivered, and the framework we use for

43

delivering the information is TATS, right?

44

We start with a triage, and

then we talk about the action.

45

This is what I actually want

you to do and how you know that

46

you're doing the right thing.

47

And then we have at the end a test.

48

We wanna make sure that what you heard

and what I said are the same thing.

49

Just as importantly, we want to test

that you know what correct is So when

50

you've completed it, you can, you

can use this test to know that you've

51

completed it so that you don't spend

time you don't have to, or, or worse,

52

do things we didn't want you to do.

53

Which i- in both cases aren't

a good use of your time.

54

Anthony Perl: Let's get a

couple of stories in here.

55

Give me some examples of where

this has prevented what could

56

have otherwise been a mess.

57

Andrew Uglow: Well, let me

give you a personal example.

58

When I was a technician, which is a

couple of years ago now, probably a

59

couple of decades ago now, but we, we,

we don't wanna say that out loud- Yeah,

60

Anthony Perl: it's time

61

um,

62

Andrew Uglow: I remember being

given a repair order and some--

63

a- and the instruction was,

"Andrew, we want you to fix the..."

64

It was the heater box.

65

And so I set about fixing the heater box.

66

What I didn't know was that

this was a repeat repair.

67

I didn't know that the heater

box actually comes out without

68

having to remove the entire dash.

69

And I didn't know that I should

check that the part was actually in

70

stock before I start doing the job.

71

So I just got, "Here's my instruction.

72

Andrew, here's your heater box.

73

Car's on the hoist, off you go."

74

Which can I offer is not an

abnormal thing in the workshop.

75

So I go, "Oh, heater box, no problem."

76

So I start disassembling the entire front

dash area of the vehicle, and an hour or

77

so after doing this, and, and can I offer,

I'm doing pretty well, like I'm getting

78

into this quite, quite efficiently.

79

The foreman comes up and goes,

"Andrew, what are you doing?"

80

Maybe not those exact words, but you, you

get the WTF, "Andrew, what's that for?

81

What are you doing?"

82

And I said, "I'm doing the heater core."

83

And he goes, "That's not

how you do a heater core.

84

You just undo this, this, this,

this, and it should be done."

85

And I've gone, "Oh, well, that would've

been nice to know to start with."

86

And so I then go to parts and

find out that we got the right

87

box, but we got the wrong part.

88

And so I've spent an hour

disassembling this car unnecessarily,

89

only to find out that I now have

to spend an hour reassembling

90

the car 'cause the part's wrong.

91

And, and so I go back to...

92

Now, here's...

93

You ready for the cruncher?

94

So here's the cruncher.

95

Andrew's now stressed,

and not without cause.

96

Andrew's now embarrassed.

97

Andrew feels very small and

humiliated, and so they give me

98

another job, and they said something,

but I can't recall what they said.

99

And so Andrew looks at the repair

order, starts on this job, and

100

largely repeats the same mistake.

101

At least this time I checked

to see if the part was right.

102

And so the cruncher was there was no

triage in any of this, and particularly

103

for that second job, because Andrew

isn't in a state- That he can ac- I

104

can see your lips move, I can hear the

sound that's, your voice is making,

105

but I cannot connect what you're

saying with anything m-meaningful.

106

It's, it's, it's eluding me entirely.

107

And so this is- Can I- ... the

part of the triage I was gonna,

108

Anthony Perl: I was gonna say that is

such a relatable little area there because

109

that happens in day-to-day life, right?

110

When something, something goes wrong and

your mind is distracted by a reaction

111

to that problem, and then when someone

starts talking to you about the new

112

thing, you haven't really been paying

attention, and suddenly you've skipped

113

the crucial bits and you're trying to

fill in some blanks, but you're already

114

in a negative space, and then it's

going to just exacerbate the problem.

115

Andrew Uglow: Absolutely.

116

I, I'm, I'm really behind the

eight ball, like internally with my

117

internal dialogue, with my emotional

state, with my, my ability to

118

access the resources that I have.

119

I, I'm, I'm really facing some significant

barriers, and so my ability to perform

120

in that state is really, really low.

121

It's not quite at the level of

winning lotto, but it's moving in

122

that direction in terms of likelihood.

123

So we go back to the idea of triage

first, action and testing, which largely

124

mitigates that situation from happening.

125

Anthony Perl: So if we've got that,

tell me the positives as well.

126

I mean, we're talking

about, you know, some of the

127

negatives where those things...

128

How do you, how do you describe what

it's like when it's actually working,

129

when that system is, is happening?

130

Because I think there's also the

opposite can also be true, right?

131

That people may not realize that

they're actually doing the right thing,

132

and that that is something that they

need to pass on and continue to do.

133

All

134

Andrew Uglow: right.

135

So a great example of what it

looks like when it's right would be

136

like for the foreman, when you get

really good quality on the repair

137

order from the service advisor.

138

So when the, the service advisor says,

you know, "Noise in left-hand front of

139

car when turning left over speed humps,"

that's really high-quality information.

140

It's explicit, as in there's

a lot of detail here.

141

It's tested in that what the customer

said and what's on the RO and what's

142

meant by the customer are the same things.

143

Like, we know that what the customer

meant and what's on the RO mean the

144

same things, and it's actionable.

145

I know exactly how to

go about testing that.

146

We call it the QIM,

quality information model.

147

If I don't give my techs good quality, if

I don't give my techs good instruction,

148

I, I'm making their life

hard, I'm making my life hard.

149

What does it look like?

150

It looks like when I ask my tech to

do something, they actually do it.

151

They do it to the quality and the

standard that I was expecting because

152

that information was transferred in

the instruction, and I don't have to

153

quality check them because I can tell

straight up that it's right based upon

154

the test that they did at the end I, I

don't have to go and fix it for them.

155

I'm less likely to have a comeback.

156

I'm going to have more time to spend on

the things that actually need me rather

157

than th- the things that actually demand

me, and they're not the same thing.

158

It makes for a smoother flow.

159

It addresses a lot of the bottleneck

that we spoke about in previous episodes.

160

Quality of information is king.

161

So how do you know that you

have quality information?

162

Well, at the service advisor level,

we use the quality information

163

model or methodology, which is

explicit and tested and actionable.

164

For technicians, when I'm giving

instructions for technicians, I use TATs.

165

I triage first, and we'll,

we'll dive into that shortly.

166

Then I give them correct action,

like exactly explicitly what I

167

want them to do and why it matters.

168

And then test how do they know

they've done it right and how do I

169

know that they've heard me correctly.

170

Anthony Perl: So talk to me then

about, we've talked about the

171

triage part, but what happens

when the test part is ignored?

172

Andrew Uglow: Oh, the short

answer is they think they've

173

got it right and they haven't.

174

They th- they, "Well, you told me

to do this, I did that, but I did it

175

to my standard, not to the standard

that you wanted me to do it to."

176

And so that, that creates

a lot of friction.

177

You know, potentially

can result in a comeback.

178

And so the car comes back,

worst case scenario, it's

179

slipped through quality control.

180

Customer gets the car, customer gets

upset and, and not without cause.

181

Uh, comes back, gives the

service advisor a good serving.

182

You know, "You're ugly and y- you smell

and y- your, your mother dresses you

183

funny," and all these sorts of things.

184

So now the service advisor's

all distressed and upset.

185

They come back because in dealership,

and I don't mean to be rude when

186

I say this, but the vast majority

of times it's about the blame,

187

it's not about cause resolution.

188

And so they come back and they

go, "Andrew, what were you

189

thinking when you did this?"

190

And here's the discussion with

the foreman, "Andrew, I told

191

you to da, da, da, da, da, da.

192

Why didn't you do it?"

193

And I go, "Well, I did do it."

194

"Oh, well, it's got to be

like this, not like that."

195

Well, if that wasn't

communicated, how do I know?

196

Like you, like I'm not a

senior tech, I'm not a foreman.

197

I don't have that level of knowledge and

expertise if you don't unpack this stuff.

198

And I usually get the pushback

from the foreman and they

199

go, "Well, they should know."

200

Yeah, right, they should know,

but if they don't, how are

201

you going to address that gap?

202

Because that's on you if you don't.

203

Because all meaning, and I can't

say this loudly enough or strongly

204

enough, all meaning of any

conversation is on what the hearer

205

understands, not what the speaker said.

206

Anthony Perl: The Frictionless

Workshop podcast is brought

207

to you by Solutions Culture.

208

For details on how to get in touch

with Andrew, consult the show notes

209

below, and don't forget to subscribe

so you don't miss an episode.

210

Now, back to the podcast.

211

And it's so important that because we've

all experienced this as well, where

212

you've been in a conversation, there's

three of you in the conversation, maybe

213

it's your partner and, and yourself

and, and someone else, and you get back

214

after that conversation, and you and

your partner talk about that particular

215

conversation, and you can interpret

things in completely different ways.

216

You, you sort of sit there

and you go, "Well, that's not

217

what I heard that was said."

218

Yeah.

219

And that happens in the

workplace all of the time.

220

Andrew Uglow: Yeah.

221

Anthony Perl: So which kind of then

begs the question, if you had to hammer

222

this home and teach this quickly to make

an impact on them, how do you do that?

223

What do you say?

224

Andrew Uglow: All right, so here's

your Monday morning, this is how

225

you do it short, short version.

226

So just as a, a quick side note, I am

working on a cheat sheet for this that

227

you can take a photo of on your phone.

228

You can create prompts, whatever you want,

that will help you step through this.

229

It will be available by the

time the podcast's come out.

230

But it's, it's the TATS framework.

231

So we start with triage.

232

So the idea of triage comes from medical.

233

Someone turns up with a broken

fingernail versus someone that comes

234

in holding their own leg that's

no longer attached to their body.

235

One of those is wildly more

life-threatening than the other,

236

and so triage is about addressing

the critical stuff first.

237

So the most critical thing when

I'm gonna give instructions is me.

238

If I'm stressed, if I've just had

a very unpleasant conversation with

239

whoever, it doesn't matter, and I'm

not in a good state to be able to

240

give good instructions, I've got

to solve that before I go anywhere.

241

That is step one.

242

There's no point in me turning up angry in

front of a tech and unpacking instructions

243

out of this internal stuff that's going

on for me be- 'cause it won't land.

244

The second part is there needs to be...

245

The, the tech themselves needs to, need

to be in a state to be able to hear.

246

So if the technician is stressed,

is anxious, is frustrated, is having

247

a bad moment, okay, I need to help

them manage their state, because

248

until I do, they can't hear me.

249

They might hear the words, but

they can't hear the meaning.

250

They can't make sense of it,

and this is where a lot of

251

the communication gets lost.

252

The other element is, and this is

the thing that you fix before you

253

even start to have the conversation,

which is a, a long-term thing, is

254

there needs to be a measure of respect

or rapport between me and the tech.

255

Because if the tech thinks I'm a

mouth-breathing, knuckle-dragging,

256

forward-sloping, picking on him the

whole time, evil overlord, when I give

257

them an instruction, it will just come

across as a demand if I don't have

258

respect and rapport with that technician.

259

And so it's crazy important

that I cultivate that over time.

260

So my state, the technician's state,

and rapport, I've got to have those,

261

then I have to give them an outcome.

262

What's the outcome?

263

"Hey, Anthony, here's your job.

264

It needs to be fixed.

265

Here's the outcome.

266

Here's the whatever it is, the job."

267

We then move into the,

the action side of things.

268

So action needs a couple

of different pieces.

269

I'm not gonna dive into all of them

right now, but the first thing they need

270

to know is what to do and why to do it.

271

Because if I don't have why, I can't know

whether I'm successful or not, right?

272

So, "Anthony, here's a,

here's a brake job for you.

273

You need to change out the brake pads,

and you need to do it in a way that the

274

customer doesn't die at the end of it."

275

"Oh, okay."

276

If I don't explain the why, or you

need to do it in a way that is fast and

277

efficient without killing the customer.

278

Usually there's a couple of parts to that.

279

The next part with the action is how.

280

I might need to give them how.

281

I might not.

282

Depends upon the level of skill.

283

But I've got to start with what I want

you to do, why it matters, why it's

284

important, and then we go into how.

285

And then of course the last part

is the test, and the first chunk

286

of the test is, "Now explain

back to me what I just asked."

287

And they go, "Fix brakes."

288

"Okay, good.

289

We're, we're some of the way there.

290

Fix brakes how?

291

To what standard?"

292

"Fix brakes in an hour

without killing the customer."

293

"Right.

294

Okay, great.

295

You know what I mean.

296

I know that you know what I mean.

297

So when I come back and I check to see

if you've done your job correctly, I

298

can come back in an hour and I can see

that it's assembled correctly in a way

299

that it isn't gonna kill the customer."

300

Now, that's a, a lovely generalization.

301

I would like to be more specific,

but just for the sake of the

302

podcast and time, there's my TAT.

303

Start with the triage.

304

What condition are they in?

305

'Cause if they can't hear you

or if they can't hear what

306

you mean, not gonna end well.

307

Then explain the job, not just

what to do, why it matters, and

308

maybe how if they need the how.

309

And then test.

310

"What did I just ask you to do?

311

Explain back, give me, feed

back to me what I just said."

312

Da, da, da, da, da.

313

And the reason we want the feedback,

and this is really important, is when

314

they say it out loud, they're also

saying it in their head, and so they

315

have to make sense of it internally

before they can explain it externally.

316

And so this is where the meaning part

gets installed in the person that

317

I'm expecting the performance from.

318

Anthony Perl: Drew, we touched on in

a previous episode the hidden cost of

319

what you're not measuring, and I think

it's something that we've got some great

320

feedback on and we want to expand on.

321

So let's unpack that whole

concept a little bit more.

322

What are we not measuring,

and what is the cost?

323

Andrew Uglow: Oh, dear.

324

So bit of context.

325

There is an organization in America called

Wrench Way, and they are specialists in

326

helping quality technicians find quality

businesses, and helping quality businesses

327

find quality technicians, but also helping

both technicians and businesses that are

328

working towards their quality get there.

329

And so it's a kind of a, a

technician advocacy for want of a,

330

a, a fairly gross simplification.

331

They published a state of the industry

paper not so long back, and some

332

of the results were heartbreaking.

333

Can I offer-- I read this and I've

gone, "You've got to be kidding me.

334

Like, really?

335

That was the result?"

336

But back to the question and,

and I say that by way of context

337

'cause we're gonna dive into that.

338

One of the things that doesn't get

measured in a dealership, and one of the

339

big things that doesn't get measured in

the dealership is the cost of inaction.

340

Okay, so we didn't do this.

341

What does that cost us?

342

And the reason that we, we don't

measure that is because it doesn't

343

have a line item in the balance sheet.

344

In the P&L there isn't a, "We didn't do

these things and it cost us $7 million."

345

Th-that, that isn't the methodology.

346

It's akin to not tracking

your lost part sales.

347

You know, so customer comes in and

says, "I want a, a widget for my

348

thingo," and you go, "Ah, let me

check to see if one's in stock."

349

And parts go, "Sorry, we're all

out of widgets for thingos."

350

Well, that was a lost sale, so that,

that was lost part, that was lost labor

351

that like if we'd stocked that part,

maybe we could have got that sale.

352

But we don't track that, and so

if you're not tracking what you

353

didn't get, you might have seven

or eight or nine inquiries for

354

people wanting widgets for thingos.

355

You only have anecdotal evidence.

356

You don't have any reasonable measure

for going, "Well, gee, we're getting a

357

lot of demand for widgets for thingos.

358

Maybe we should keep a

couple on the shelf."

359

And so I go back to the cost of inaction.

360

Because I didn't train my person,

because I didn't my foreman, because

361

I h- I'm, I'm not closing the foreman

capacity gap, well, we don't have a

362

measure for what that impact is, but we

do have the consequences all the same.

363

So this still shows up in foreman burnout.

364

It shows up in a higher number

of comebacks, of silly errors, of

365

things that quality control missed,

of upset customers, of all of

366

the things that then go ahead and

consume my time- That would be better

367

spent otherwise on being proactive.

368

And so I slip into this

nasty reactive cycle.

369

Anthony Perl: Well, that's all we have

time for in this episode, but if you

370

realize today that your instructions

are not landing because you're

371

skipping the feedback loop, it's

time to implement the TATS framework.

372

To help you put these ideas into

gear, we've put together a dedicated

373

workbook that includes a breakdown of

today's episode and specific activities

374

to help you improve communication

and reduce costly workshop errors.

375

You can download your copy right

now via the link in our show notes.

376

Grab that workbook and start

testing for understanding today.

377

Make sure you join us for the next

episode where Andrew reveals the

378

single most expensive event that

could ever happen in your workshop,

379

and surprisingly, it's something that

never shows up on a standard report.

380

We're diving deep into the massive

hidden costs of losing key technicians

381

and service managers and how

you can stop that drain on your

382

bottom line before it's too late.

383

We love your comments as they

help us frame future episodes,

384

so please leave them wherever

you're listening to this podcast.

385

Don't forget also to like,

share, and subscribe so you never

386

miss that crucial conversation.

387

This show has been produced by my

team at podcastdoneforyou.com.au.

388

Until next time, keep your workshop

running smooth and frictionless.