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This free, 27-page resource includes:

• Six ways ANY business can benefit from Bitcoin
• Some of the best Bitcoin-only businesses to partner with
• Key Bitcoin concepts for people getting started

Jon Gordon is the Founder of Satoshi Health Advisors and Co-Founder of NosFabrica, both of which revolutionize healthcare with Bitcoin and decentralized technology. At Satoshi Health Advisors, Jon helps healthcare businesses integrate Bitcoin strategies, accept Lightning payments, and grow their practices. At NosFabrica, he’s building an ecosystem powered by Bitcoin and Nostr, empowering patients with medical sovereignty and providers with peer-to-peer healthcare solutions. Discover how Jon is shaping the future of healthcare through innovation, transparency, and decentralization.

🌐 CONNECT WITH JON

• 𝕏  X: @thebitcoinyogi on X
• 📸 Instagram: @jongordon9 on Instagram
• 🌍 Website: Jon's Website

🌐 CONNECT WITH JOSH

• 𝕏  X:@joshuafriedeman
• 🔗 LinkedIn:@joshuafriedeman
• 📺 YouTube:@joshuafriedeman

TAKEAWAYS

• The current healthcare data landscape is fragmented, leading to privacy concerns and inefficiencies.
• NosFabrica aims to empower individuals with ownership of their health data using Nostr.
• Decentralized healthcare interactions can reduce administrative costs and improve patient-provider connections.
• The shift towards data sovereignty allows patients to selectively disclose their health information.
• By using Bitcoin and Nostr, healthcare providers can reach broader populations effectively.
• A major goal of NosFabrica is to enable interoperability across different healthcare systems.

SHOW PARTNERS

Mentioned in this episode:

Velas Commerce: Biz Tech Meets Bitcoin

Strong Wealth: Wealth Management for Bitcoiners, by Bitcoiners

DOWNLOAD YOUR COPY OF THE BITCOIN-FOR-BUSINESS QUICK START GUIDE

The healthcare data landscape is very fragmented.

It's a honeypot, basically.

Right?

And that data is hacked and sold off all the time.

Some of it might be de identified and sold off, but yet at the same time you're giving up a lot of rights and you're losing a lot of your privacy.

And look, not everybody's going to care about that.

And we recognize that too.

Maybe there's some other aspects of your personal health that you want to track, but you don't want it going to Apple or you don't want to necessarily have that be public for everyone.

But you want to track your metabolic health, you want to go get your labs done.

And right now you're going to just be having a PDF of that.

You know, those labs that were done.

There isn't a great way to really store that information, compare it over time, and then maybe even connect with people that are going down different health rabbit holes from yourself.

And more of an alternative health approach that we've definitely seen for bitcoiners.

And that self discovery component, we want to bring that and create a forum for those health discussions where you can connect with providers directly and you can learn from other people's health challenges as well to the extent that you know they want to share.

Or you can do it in an anonymous way as well.

Welcome to the Business Bitcoinization show, the show dedicated to helping you enrich your life and grow your business with bitcoin, the hardest money on planet earth.

I'm your host, Josh Friedman and our guest today is John Gordon, who's the co founder of NOS Fabrica, which helps users take control of of their health data.

We're going to get to our interview with John right after this.

John, welcome to the podcast.

Thanks for having me, Josh.

Excited to be here.

So I like to start off every single interview with a few questions that help us to get to know you a little bit better and give us some insight for our own lives.

Are you ready for these?

Let's do it.

Question number one is this.

When and how did you first learn about bitcoin?

We're four years later now deep down the rabbit hole, they're at 2% of the Bitcoin supply.

Getting married, working remote and deciding for ourselves, you know, hey, how are we going to live and definitely following along the sovereign individual thesis is definitely complementary to the bitcoin journey.

And I have to ask, you mentioned Saylor Microstrategy, them just recently getting 2% of the entire Bitcoin supply.

Have you been interested in MicroStrategy as well?

I know that some people are bitcoin only as in Bitcoin, not Microstrategy.

Other people have said, hey, I want to get some of the stock as well.

So where did you fall in those between those two camps?

You know, I'd say bitcoin first and foremost, you can have a little micro strategy to kind of complement or if you have money in certain accounts that you can't access bitcoin directly.

But there's tools out there where you can convert your retirement money into Bitcoin and hold in an ira Roth ira and I prefer to do that.

But if there are other accounts, you know, I think definitely seeing the gains from MicroStrategy this year have been pretty terrific.

And they've kind of found a glitch in the matrix a bit, I think.

So not going and running off to sell bitcoin to buy MicroStrategy, but I think it's still, now that it's being added to Q.

Q.

Q.

As well.

Just got announced, there's just going to continue to be an influx there.

So exciting to see.

Question number two.

What's an insight or fact about bitcoin that you wish everyone understood?

I would say that no one is in charge.

Rules without rulers is really, you know, the immutability of bitcoin and how important that is, even from a legal perspective, as we're seeing in some recent rulings, that it can't be stopped and that it can't be changed without consensus among stakeholders.

I think that aspect, when people first hear about bitcoin, they're very hesitant because they think, well, there might just be more than 21 million bitcoin one day.

But no, there's not.

We're not going to devalue our own money that we're all participants in.

So I think that aspect of bitcoin in the immutability feature, as well as being a property of money, is super important to understand.

Question three, what's the bitcoin resource you most recommend to other people?

I'd say the seventh property by Eric Yates.

Speaking about monetary properties, I think that's an amazing way to get the download on the history of money, how our fiat system works.

And then enough of the mechanics of bitcoin, really, really in one place.

And I would definitely also recommend both Gradually and Suddenly by Parker Lewis and also Nick Bhatia's the Bitcoin Layer newsletter is a great way to stay up to date on Bitcoin and macro trends.

Question number four Beyond Bitcoin, what's a resource, tool or idea that's been helpful to you or your work recently?

I'd say I started to get deeper into AI for some workflows, but really integrating into into health care as well.

So I think it just continuing to stay up to speed on the different tools that are being developed.

We're going to see a lot of tandem growth of both AI and Bitcoin, both from an energy utilization perspective, but also from the idea that AIs will recognize Bitcoin as money, even more so than than fiat money.

So more of those tools, automations I think are going to continue to be important.

We have our final question.

Since you're a repeat guest, we're going to change it up a little bit.

What is the part of the Bitcoin rabbit hole you've been going down most recently?

I would say node running and even more of code.

I've been running a node for a couple years, ran into some hiccups recently, had a friend from Austin really help out which was huge for me and digging in SSH into the node, fixing, resetting the index, getting things back up and running was an area of the node that I hadn't really had to deal with before.

Even in land managing lightning channels, this is even more core to that.

So yeah, shout out to Topher for helping me out.

Well John, we're here today to talk about your newest venture.

Before that, listeners may recognize your voice, might recognize you from a conversation I think last spring when we talked about your business Satoshi Health Advisors.

Now you've just become a co founder of something called NOS Fabrica, which I'm going to be learning about with the listeners as we have this conversation today.

But first of all could you just share with us a little bit about Satoshi Health Advisors and what you guys have been doing across the last six or seven months?

Yeah, absolutely.

It's been a great pleasure, appreciate you having me back on the show.

That led to some great conversations and really working with a variety of different clients to help businesses integrate a bitcoin strategy.

With my background in the healthcare industry, I focused early on direct primary care clinics, dentists, chiropractors, even yogis and helping them get set up to understand Bitcoin, accept bitcoin payments, save in Bitcoin and the treasury strategy and then marketing and finding those bitcoin customers out there.

And so that's it's been great working with people like Brian Jones at Jones Pierce, even on the architect side of things and seeing how bitcoin is going to impact real estate and design and architecture really for low time preference.

Others like Dr.

Roger Mosagemba out of San Antonio who was the first doctor at Teladoc very early on to new tech trends and that was in telemedicine and now willing to take the leap and adopt bitcoin.

And I think it's really seeing and connecting businesses, other e commerce platforms to as my wife would say, their soulmate clients.

But really the bitcoiners that find the value for value and the fact that there are businesses now that are embracing bitcoin even if it's from a savings and treasury perspective to last beyond a few more years or from just the payments and saving money on transactions.

But ultimately it's finding the people that will value your service.

And even for myself, getting paid in bitcoin is the best.

I'll add a fiat premium into the different into projects with me because I think that also helps those business owners realize hey, this is what my customers are going to be looking at.

How do I go and educate them on getting signed up in an exchange with Stryker river or how do they get bitcoin so they can pay me or how do I get my rewards and kind of build that circular economy in bitcoin?

I think that part has been really fun and continuing to expand.

So now you have nos fabrica as well.

And my understanding is you're using Noster somehow with health records.

Could you tell us a little bit about a little bit more about the business which is still very early and it's you know, very early stages of development.

But also what are some of the key problems that is helping to solve?

Yeah, absolutely.

Nos fabrica means our factory in Latin also play with nostr.

So we want to build healthcare tools for decentralized healthcare ecosystem on NOSTR and Bitcoin.

And with Nostr you have the ability now to solve the identity problem which is very rampant in healthcare for a variety of reasons.

I don't know if you know this, but a third of Americans medical data was hacked last year.

So your data is floating around, it's being sold off without your consent and whether you know it or not.

And so with these very fragile state of centralized databases and healthcare data, whenever you're going and getting a healthcare procedure done, you're not even really owning that data.

Maybe you can get a PDF file one day, but it's not secure.

And there's a ton of administrative waste in that process of even being a new person.

Every new doctor's office or hospital that you go to, even potentially within the same insurance system.

Having worked in Medicaid before at a big payer insurance company, if you were, had a commercial plan, lost your job, went on to Medicaid, same company doing both commercial and Medicaid, you're a completely new person and that was within one insurance company.

Now look at the whole health care landscape where you have to constantly fill out and share the same information over and over and over again.

Where a quarter of the four and a half trillion dollars a year in spend in healthcare is administrative and half of that is waste.

So we think by giving people the keys to their own data, we can have more sovereignty over our health and ultimately take more personal responsibility for our health as well in understanding any challenges in navigating the healthcare system and really having a global platform.

Right.

So we're building a Salud protocol, which is an open source protocol.

There's a team as well Illumina is working on in El Salvador.

But our hope is to really develop tools to increase access to healthcare to healthcare providers.

No matter where you are being able to use Bitcoin to pay value for value and have an ecosystem where the beauty of Nostr and there was a lot of hype over the last several years, for once Bitcoin was making more headways.

They said, oh, we're going to put everything on a blockchain.

But what we found is, and I think bitcoiners will recognize the only great use case of a blockchain is decentralized money.

And you have a cap on the data size and degrees of centralization.

For any other blockchain that's been developed that's not Bitcoin.

And so with Nostr you have your identity that's similar to Bitcoin is your public private key.

And that private key can be taken and your followers and your web of trust is all at the protocol level and you can utilize different applications on top of that with your same identity.

So we could potentially have a whole host of personal health apps or marketplaces to connect with doctors and various different tools where you don't have to recreate your profile every single time and you actually have your history of sensitive health data that you do need to share at certain points.

In time, you want to share that with your doctor or with a loved one, or you want to store your, your kids records, for example.

So I think that really it's a, it's a greenfield approach right now where there are a lot of tools and a background in health care that are being developed for interoperability or trying to plug into epic's walled garden.

Right.

We have big centralized electronic medical record systems in this country already, but actually in a lot of countries they, they'll be moving from to electronic for the first time.

This is the case in El Salvador too.

Or maybe we can just skip that note and go straight to nostr, because now you have sovereignty over your data and can access a whole host of different tools that are decentralized in nature.

And you can always run your own relay and you have those keys.

And so I think the paradigm really shifts.

Whereas the focus right now is always between hospitals and other doctors or hospitals and the pharmacist, or your insurance company and your provider.

And as a patient, you're left out of the loop.

You're not the focus of that conversation.

So building tools really for individuals that want to take control of their health is going to be a big piece of what we're building.

I think it's really interesting that you mentioned that some people might just entirely skip some of the digitization that we've experienced here in the United States and go straight to using NOSTR or something decentralized that the end user can control.

It certainly makes me think about, first time I went overseas, just everyone was using cell phones and there was no need for landlines.

And it's just really interesting to think about how as we develop technologies, some people can just skip entire steps of technology and just go to the best stuff from day one, which is really encouraging.

One of the things that you said a few minutes ago, you said a lot of things that are probably very new to a lot of people.

One of the things that you said is you mentioned how people were talking about putting medical records on the blockchain and how you said that's probably not the best thing.

So for people that don't care at all about anything bitcoin related or don't really think about blockchain at all, that may not even be a topic that they're aware of, but there are probably also people listening to this who might be more into the crypto world and they might still think that blockchain is the way to go for decentralized data.

So could you talk a little bit about why blockchain doesn't make as much sense for something like medical information.

Yeah, absolutely.

So with a blockchain you have a cap on the data and all the different nodes or validators.

However you're going to do that blockchain, whether it's most of them now, other than Bitcoin or proof of stake.

Right.

Are the people with the money make the rules, essentially.

But you also have to be synced with everybody else in the network for an open ledger of who has which UTXOs and Bitcoin.

That's really important.

But for healthcare you don't necessarily need to know everybody else's information.

Right.

And that's where I think NOSTR comes into this, where you can connect to the relays you want to connect to.

We'll be running our HIPAA compliant relay and patient data.

And privacy is also super, has pretty strict regulation here in the US as well as other places.

But you don't necessarily, that can be private and you don't need to know what's going on on the other side of the world's relays if that's not relevant to you.

So you can kind of plug into your relay and your own network and web of trust.

And if you think about it also, health is very social.

And so tapping into the social aspects of NOSTR and being able to have, you know, the idea of having cryptographically signed notes in a blockchain is the right start.

But we have an even better way and simpler way of doing that with nostr.

That doesn't need a token that anybody can utilize.

We already have money, which is Bitcoin.

Right.

For value, for value interactions.

And now you can decide where you host that information and have selective disclosure of that data when you want it.

And so there's even, I think, tighter privacy relative to other potential blockchains that are going to be open source.

This is going to be more private data.

And so it's taking some of those elements.

But most of the projects that I've seen that I've tried to apply blockchain and healthcare come with another token or you need this, you know, other crypto there to do the functionality.

And I just don't think that's going to be the answer.

So when I started really understanding NOSTR and using it over the last two plus years, started thinking, hey, how we can apply this to healthcare.

And I connected with now one of my co founders, Vitor Pamplona, who's the creator of Amethyst, who had already been working on this.

And so we have a nip, a NOSTR improvement proposal for ways to store medical data on nostr.

And there are international standards for healthcare data.

It's called FHIR HL7, so we're just wrapping those in.

NOSTR events can be pretty flexible, but there's going to be a lot of tooling and infrastructure that needs to be built as well.

This is all open source too, where anybody can build on this.

But for example, how are we going to host X rays and other images and heavier types of data where you're running to more storage capabilities issues on a blockchain nostr we can have a bit more flexibility in terms of who and how are running those servers, but ultimately having a lighter weight way to interact with that data.

This is something I should probably know already, but.

But as you're describing all these things about having your X rays on nostr, where is that database currently?

What is that like?

Is it one database that all medical providers have access to?

So it very much depends.

It's very fragmented in general, that data is all over the place.

And even if you go to one hospital and then you end up at a different outpatient center, it, it can be challenging to even get that X ray sent to the other doctor.

You might have to go in and get a CD printed basically at the hospital to go get your X ray.

So the healthcare data landscape is very fragmented, yet it is hosted on a variety of different hospital and health system servers, on electronic medical record servers.

And many people end up.

It's a honey pot basically.

Right?

And that data is hacked and sold off all the time.

Some of it might be de identified and sold off, but yet at the same time you're giving up a lot of rights and you're losing a lot of your privacy.

And look, not everybody's going to care about that and we recognize that too.

But I think for our generation, or if you're going to be even nomadic or traveling around or you're not using as much healthcare today, but you might want to tomorrow, maybe there's some other aspects of your personal health that you want to track, but you don't want it going to Apple or you don't want to necessarily have that be public for everyone.

But you want to track your metabolic health, you want to go get your labs done, and right now you're going to just be having a PDF of that.

You know, those labs that were done.

There isn't a great way to really store that information, compare it over time and then maybe even connect with people that are Going down different health rabbit holes from yourself and more of an alternative health approach that we've definitely seen for Bitcoiners.

And that self discovery component, we want to bring that and create a forum for those health discussions where you can connect with providers directly and you can learn from other people's health challenges as well, to the extent that, you know, they want to share or you can do it in an anonymous way as well.

And NOSTR provides all that flexibility and has the social element already, you know, baked in where we think there are many, many health applications and we're not going to be the only ones building it.

You know, we're going to encourage more people and developers and builders and providers through my work both at Crowd Health and then Satoshi Health Advisors, connected with many doctors and providers that are burnt out, fed up with the system.

And we know how expensive it is, how challenging it is to access.

So we can build the tooling for those types of individuals and providers that want to operate outside the insurance paradigm can still provide great value and have a way in which we can connect.

One of the things that you just said a moment ago is that a lot of people don't care too much about their privacy.

And I think that there's a lot of truth to that.

I think if you ask someone, do you care about your privacy?

They'll say yes.

But in practice, a lot of people don't prioritize their privacy as much maybe as they should.

But one thing that I think is really important that almost everyone would care about is making sure that you have the data that the doctors you're working with, the healthcare providers, whoever else it might be, you have the data about your, yourself and your, your medical history that they need so that in, you know, conference with you, you can make the best decision for your health.

And that's, that's the reason that asked the question.

Because if it's centralized or, you know, if it's, if it's in a few different places, yes, it's a honey pot.

But also your doctor may not get all the information that he or she needs about you when making very important decisions.

So I think it's, I think it cool that you could potentially just bring your entire medical history onto NOSTR and share whatever you need to or whatever's relevant with the right people.

Yeah, absolutely.

That you, you hit it spot on.

Whether it's an emergency situation or you're in a different country or you're just going to a different provider.

It can be very difficult for doctors to get their hands on that information.

And it can be a big burden even for other loved ones to try to keep track and have all those relevant records and tests and labs.

And it ends up being leading to too many tests being done and oh, let's just do another image or scan that leads to more radiation that's unnecessary because we can't find the last image we did a few weeks ago.

So a lot of the waste and overuse in healthcare that's very much incentivized through a fee for service payment mechanism is also driven through just losing records.

Hospitals also delete records then after seven years.

So if you actually wanted to do some digging on say your type 1 diabetes or something else that you developed when you were a kid or younger and you want to really get to the root cause and understand your own health history, not only can it be hard to find that data might not even be there anymore, it's deleted after a certain point because they're not going to keep those records forever.

And so this can be a way really with Nos Fabrica and what we're putting out there really is a call and a challenge to build ansalud to have an open source decentralized health app development challenge.

But the goal is to build open source tools to decentralize healthcare, improve health, address different challenges in healthcare access, data portability and overall health outcomes.

So we think by working on the infrastructure of here's how we express medical data, here's how we hold it in a secure, private and sovereign way for the individual and develop tooling both those providers, for example, to write prescriptions onto your relay, or you can write data onto your relay and developing personal health apps, connecting the kind of docs and devs in a way where we can unlock some, I think some of that creativity that I've certainly encountered in my discussions at the intersection of healthcare and Bitcoin and Noster and would love to welcome people into that challenge and reach out because we think that a whole host of people, developers, designers, providers, anyone that's just focused on their health or some aspect of it, we can start to move more of those discussions to NOSTR and have that data stored in a sovereign way.

So I still have more questions for you, but since you brought it up, how can people get involved if something like that sounds interesting to them or if someone listening right now is thinking of someone that might be a great fit for.

Yeah, definitely.

You can reach out to, reach out to me and go to nusfabrica.com we'll have more info on the challenge there.

We're also posting from nusfabrica on Noster, so getting involved for the challenges would be great.

Those, those calls are going to start January 9, Thursday, January 9, or that, that week.

We'll have a form, an interest form on the website as well.

So you can fill that out.

Let us know, you know, what aspect of the industry or health are you interested in?

Where are you coming from, you know, to welcome people from all over this.

While the challenges are big in the U.S.

there are also other challenges in different parts of the world that we think this can help solve.

Where there isn't access to doctors or you need an eyeglass prescription, for example, and you're not able to connect to a doctor.

So there's more and more tools and really a global approach that we want to take with this.

And then I'm also doing product discovery interviews.

So we're kind of as we do our research and figuring out.

My other co founder is Avi Bura.

He's coming from United Healthcare, which has been in the news lately.

But they were hacked earlier this year.

A lot of data was stolen.

A lot of work.

And so that's just another case in point.

But so between the three of us, we have a lot of healthcare experience both from a product technical and strategy and ops perspective.

And we're figuring out and asking the question, if you're interested in your health, what are the biggest challenges that you face in your health?

How are you tracking your health data or loved ones data over time?

Are you using any tools today?

You concern with privacy.

So these are types of conversations that I'm having with, with individuals.

So definitely feel free to reach out.

John usfabrica.com and we'll have all that in the show notes too.

But we love, you know, we think and really what I believe is, you know, bitcoin, now that we've had bitcoin grateful for that for 15, 16 years now.

A lot of the mining markets and the financial markets obviously we see with the ETFs and mainstream kind of adoption, a lot of that industry is entrenched and really more developed.

Right.

Five, six, seven, eight years.

But I think with the healthcare industry we're still very early with bitcoin adoption and tend to be very late adopters of new technology.

And even if that's just cash sitting on the balance sheet, that could be converted to Bitcoin or it's certain business models like direct primary care that lend themselves well to Bitcoin.

The healthcare Data space is 30 billion plus annual market yearly.

So out of that market there's a huge opportunity to tap into and from a bitcoiner perspective in the legacy healthcare world.

So we think it's a big addressable market and more of a greenfield approach where ultimately individuals can decide where do you want to store your data?

How can we build better ux, better tools, better design to ultimately help people, encourage them to take care of their health.

And as we know, a lot of the top down directives from maybe the CDC or HHS or other aspects have maybe been off the last few years and people are starting to question the food pyramid from the FDA and testing out carnivore or other lifestyle changes that can really help address their root cause.

You might need a partner on that journey.

And so healthcare providers, especially more alternative modalities, whether a naturopath or chiropractor, that have already been boxed out of the healthcare system, have a lot to offer and hopefully can find a voice and find clients and find people through NOSTR and having that social element, that discoverability and ultimately where there is a value exchange, we have lightning boom, we have Bitcoin and we can kind of create and facilitate those types of interactions that lead to healthier, longer, better lives.

So you've made a good case for why Nos Fabrica is great for the end user.

But I'm curious to know why maybe different healthcare companies would want to use this.

And the reason that I ask is because it seems that the best thing for the consumer is not always what the healthcare industry chooses.

And I would say that you and I probably both think that things are beginning to trend in a better direction for individuals.

But what would be the benefit that some sort of healthcare company would get from using Nos Fabrica?

Do they have enough incentive to adopt it?

There are many tools now that are being developed in the healthcare space for providers, but many of those SaaS products are focused on larger practices, bigger health systems, using EPIC or Cerner for example.

Even in the outpatient space, we've seen a lot of consolidation in M and A and centralization within healthcare.

And the legacy health tech has certainly followed where interoperability is a challenge.

And the tools are not really built for independent practices, even having an electronic medical record that they like to use, having patient communication tools that they like to use.

So I've actually been working with the doctor in my hometown on Increasing efficiency and optimizing the practice in a lot of different ways.

And a lot of that's included exploring different tools that are out there and what our practice is using today.

And there's definitely a gap in the market and a challenge for independent practitioners to have the tools that meet their needs from a scheduling perspective, from patient management, communications.

And so the benefit of NOSTR and I think some of the tools we can build with NUSfabrica is that they can also have a degree of ownership on the data.

Right.

It's ultimately the individuals, but they'll have potentially write access, right?

The patient will say, yes, you can write onto my relay.

And then they can have access to their own patients information.

Kind of solving that challenge you mentioned earlier, where if you went to another hospital or health system nearby and we don't have a good relationship with them, I can't, can't get your records and I don't know what, how did your hospital stages go and other medications that you're on and having to continually get that information from the patient or maybe they forget something, they miss something versus oh, they could tap in and see you've shared this data with me from your own relay.

I can write other information there.

And we're kind of all up to date at the same time.

So our goal is definitely to provide a lot of that relay tooling for both the providers and patients and building out the tech from a key management perspective and functionality where these tools really are built for more of a.

Not for a solo practitioner, for telemedicine practices and across different modalities.

So we have already a micro app.

We see a lot of micro apps as potentials here in addition to bigger applications, but one is called laser eyes.

So it's a way for eye doctors to prescribe eye data entry data, right.

So all they need is your NPUB profile, your relay, type in the data, boom, it gets sent right to your.

Right now it'll already render in your amethyst dms, for example, but we'll want to have a viewer to see, okay, here's my dental, here's my vision, here are my lab results.

A way for you to kind of have that in, in one home, but now you've had that ability for at least your optometrist.

You have a sign note from the doctor that you can take to the eyeglasses store to buy your glasses, right?

So creating more of those kind of circular loops where often that's all you need in the form.

Today it's either a printed out Email or PDF or you know, pretty manual in a lot of ways.

So moving more to an electronic process, but a cryptographically signed process too where yeah docs will also can build up their profile, build up attestations and reviews and and utilize all of those components of web of trust where most times if you say where am I going?

Where should I go get care, you ask friends and family or it's a word of mouth is a big way that healthcare providers grow their business.

And so I think the Nostr flywheel, where there's already 40,000 weekly active users, there could be many, many more.

And not everybody wants to use social media, but maybe you want to use a health app or maybe you want to use now a podcasting app or a music app or book reading app and all that, you can bring your same profile with you.

Say you wanted a different profile, you can create another npub and public private key.

So we think there's a lot of potential use cases here and that's where we don't think we can, we're not going to do it alone and we want to have this ecosystem approach where there are a lot of developers working in open source.

We have a lot of great Bitcoin and Lightning wallets and maybe we can build more health focused tools that are all integrated with Lightning and Bitcoin, but solve other challenges that you might be facing.

So that leads me to my final question.

I think you briefly addressed tested about 30 seconds to a minute ago.

But when it comes to your health information on Nostr, would you foresee this being something that is somehow private but a part of your primary Noster account?

Or do you see a future where people have different Noster accounts or you know, private public key pairs for different needs?

Does that make sense?

Yeah, definitely.

I think, I think the beauty of that of Nostr is it's up to the user.

You know, if there's certain information really sensitive you want to keep private, you don't even want it tied to that other key.

You can definitely spin up another key pair and use that more for health reasons.

I think many people may go that route.

But I think to start and until we get as we build more of the key management tools that are necessary for switching between apps and using between web extensions and mobile phones, both iPhone and Android, it'll probably be I'll use my primary key and I think that's just from key management perspective will be the most streamlined.

But that's another key piece of feedback and what we're learning and how Are people going to want to manage this?

This is new.

And also if maybe you lose your key, where's that data?

That's where having those providers that yes, there is going to be a degree of trust.

Maybe it's written as a backup onto their relay or our relay or we're hosting your relay and there's a lot of different kind of tooling there that will play around with both from a business model perspective, but also for the individuals that can decide how they want to store this data.

You can always run your own relay.

Take this yourself.

And that paradigm shift from today's world where in many states you're actually paying them to go get your healthcare data back and we think that's just backwards and hope to live in a world where we're in control of our health and health data and utilizing the best free and open source software tools no matter where we are.

Well John, I appreciate you sharing today.

If there are any final thoughts you want to share, please share those as well as remind people where they can go if they want to get involved with Nos Fabrica.

I'm excited about the future and how you're looking to empower users.

That's what we need more of.

So Bitcoin enables.

That's what NOSTR enables and I think you're doing a great job.

Awesome.

Thanks so much Josh.

Always a pleasure being on.

Love your interviews and learning about so many different aspects of the Bitcoin and now Noster ecosystem as well.

So yeah, feel free to reach out at the Bitcoin yogi on X and on noster nos fabrica.com to learn more about the challenge and getting involved and then satoshi health.com as well.

If you have any interest in integrating a bitcoin strategy in your business, love to chat.

Walking all sorts of businesses through this process and knowing can be different for every business.

But we're all hopping onto this beautiful bitcoin network that's open and decentralized.

So happy to help you along your journey in any way.

Great.

John, thank you so much for your time today.

It's been a pleasure.

Thanks Josh.

Take care.

Well friends is a wrap.

Thanks so much for listening to this episode of the Business Bitcoinization Show.

If you want to reach out to either me or John, you can find those links down in the show notes.

And if you're interested in getting involved in the early days of Nos Fabrica, definitely do that as well as always.

Keep building, keep growing.

Until next time, keep living and leading well.