In this episode of the Rainmakers Power Hour, the hosts welcome special guest Jim Sullivan, a finance expert with an MBA from the University of San Francisco and owner of Sullivan Wood Capital Management. Jim delves into topics spanning crypto assets, conventional investments like gold, and the revolutionizing potential of AI. He shares his extensive background, including his strategies for long-term investments in publicly traded companies and new digital assets like Bitcoin and Ethereum. The discussion also explores the nuances of cycles in the digital assets market, tokenization as the future for companies, and the evolving landscape of investment portfolios, including family offices. Throughout the conversation, the importance of diversification and the potential of emerging technologies were highlighted. Jim gives practical advice and addresses audience questions, making this episode a must-watch for investors occupying all spectrums.

00:00 Welcome to Rainmakers Power Hour

00:19 Introduction of Sponsor and Special Guest

01:26 Jim Sullivan's Background and Investment Philosophy

04:02 Discussion on Bitcoin and Digital Assets

10:42 Exploring Gold and Investment Strategies

16:14 AI Revolution and Market Impact

20:29 Quantum Computing and Algorithmic Trading

26:26 Transition to Crypto and Digital Asset Treasury Companies

33:56 Galaxy Digital and Final Thoughts

34:26 Introduction to Galaxy Digital

34:47 Galaxy's Diverse Involvement in Digital Assets

35:33 Tokenization and Its Rapid Growth

35:59 Galaxy's Venture Capital Investments

36:20 Galaxy's Role in the Digital Asset Space

37:11 Unique Tokenization Case Study

38:13 Galaxy's Leadership and Future Prospects

40:39 Family Offices and Digital Assets

42:33 Audience Q&A: Trading and Investment Strategies

45:39 Bitcoin Maximalism and Decentralization

50:22 The Future of Tokenization and Regulation

58:26 Galaxy One: Retail Platform and Yield Opportunities

01:02:40 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

[00:00:00]

Welcome to Rainmakers Power Hour

Lyann Credit Nguyen: Hey, welcome to the Rainmakers Power Hour. We want to extend our invitation to anyone that's out there on Twitter right now. We are live on Twitter and also YouTube live. Every week we bring insightful discussion, expert strategies, and real world success stories with top entrepreneurs in business.

So I'm gonna go ahead and hand this over to Magna to introduce our sponsor. And we're gonna make this really quick 'cause I wanna hear everything about this special guest. Go ahead Magna.

Introduction of the Sponsor

Migena Agaraj: Thank you everybody. Tonight's episode is sponsored by William and Harry. Elevate your golf game with fantastic golf shoes.

Wendy Butler: Best you guys. Great job and thank you Migena

for standing in for Macy Nelson tonight. She is doing a charity event, but without further ado, let's get to our guest.

Meet Jim Sullivan: Finance Expert

And tonight we're gonna be talking about crypto and especially Bitcoin Gold, some AI and energy stocks. But first Jim, give us, give our audience that don't know you a little bit more about your background.

Jim Sullivan: Yeah.

Jim's Background and Career Journey

Jim Sullivan: So first of all, thanks for having me on. I'm honored to have a second shot, I guess after the first time.

I worked on the sell side. I was a trader. I did a lot of different things and moved around quite, quite a bit. All of that kind of led to where I am today. And in two, in 2003, 2004, I started Sullivan Capital Management.

Investment Philosophy and Digital Assets

Jim Sullivan: And the whole focus was, and I really feel like this is missing from the wealth management investment management world, is just locating really good publicly traded companies that we can buy at a.

Discount and own for three, five to 10 years. I, say the same thing over and over again. And if you look back at my five and 10 year track record, every client of mine has made really good money during that time. So the thesis is really just to take the time to do the work, to find a good company of multiple companies and buy them over the long term.

We have this whole new world of digital assets and it's just we're, fortunate to be alive in the time we are because of what's happening. It's a very opportunity to see a new asset class. Of digital assets a around us now that we can not only invest in, but learn about. And it, we're in the first pitch of the very first inning of of of digital assets.

So if it's I know somebody brought up the concept of what's happening with gold. We're in this AI revolution, we're in this digital asset revolution. To me, this is where the internet has come together and convoluted to create this new technology that that we're looking at on both AI and and on digital assets.

So again, going back, I'm looking for really great investment ideas long term that I can invest for my clients, and that's what I spend my entire time, my entire day doing.

The Rise of Bitcoin and Market Cycles

Wendy Butler: And so let's get into crypto and Bitcoin.

We hear a lot about cycles and digital assets. For people that don't know much about the cycles, can you tell us about those and where we are in the cycle now, in particular with Bitcoin?

Jim Sullivan: Yeah, sure. Before I do that, I just wanna say two things. One, about Chatter self. Again, I said this is the second time I've been on. The first time it was quite glitchy and things didn't really go along. Yeah, sure. Before. Now this has been affected before, in my opinion, it's one of the best streaming sources out there right now.

Fantastic work that you're doing. I we'll just look forward to, seeing this grow. Secondly, to Wendy, credit to all you guys the, level of guests you guys have on this, you can't turn off the show. Last week's was incredible and I don't even know how I follow up with that, but it was really great.

My hat's off to you guys. I'm putting it on, but I'm taking it off. I'm telling you guys what a great job. Yeah, so the last time I was on, we talked a lot about the new administration coming in and taking a real 180 toward digital assets. And that's exactly what's happened, right?

We've seen a new SC. Chief come in, Paul Atkins. He's been very pro digital assets. Matter of fact, he went back at the last administration and he removed a lot of the legislative issues, some of the legal issues against what's happening in the space. And what you've actually seen now are a lot of developers come back to the United States.

To go back to your question about the there, there, is there, there is a very, it's a very, Bitcoin itself is a very volatile asset. It's a 40 vol asset, which means it moves 40 times the, market and it goes through significant ways, through sign significant moves. And you've seen it go up 250% and down 70% and usually every three to four years you see a big upward move or downward move we've clearly had is large.

And again, really hard, seen it go up 250 down 70% four years. I'm in the camp. It's per per Bitcoin.

The Future of Bitcoin and Gold

Jim Sullivan: And now one of the things you've seen recently that real, really makes me feel good about that is the amount of liquidity in the in, in, the world markets. The, level of M two global money has really, exploded.

And recently you've seen gold move 80 to 90% in a six month period. And matter of fact though, if this call was yesterday, I would've spot on. 'cause I've been saying that you're gonna. See a move from gold dropping into Bitcoin. And today that happened. You saw a significant downward move in gold and that proceeds went into Bitcoin.

Again, part of my job is not to tell you like where we are today. Let's talk about where we wanna be in three, five, and 10 years. And that's the, that's what a really good investor can do is where's the puck going? Not where it's coming from. And the puck is headed. North and, on, on Bitcoin.

So I, my opinion of the cycle is, I think we've seen the cycles in the past 18 years that Bitcoin's been an asset and it's gonna be much less volatile. You're gonna see slower climb upward, but it's going to be, and you're gonna hear more of this from sovereign nations that wanna buy it as a reserve asset.

So my answer to your question is, I think we've seen the volatility. You've already seen the volatility come down, so I think the cycle will be longer, if not forgotten, as we start to move into a long-term asset that's gonna con consistently move higher. One last thing about Bitcoin. It's a proof of work asset, and I can get into that in a second, meaning.

There's less and less Bitcoin available every time it gets mined, or every time it gets bought and put away with a, declining a share count or you wanna call it or coin count, you're gonna see demand and that's just supply and demand pushing the price higher. So I'm pretty confident over the next three to five years you'll see Bitcoin significantly higher and a significantly less volatile asset.

I just wanna do that reminder 'cause I am licensed so I can't say certain things. However we are understanding the volatility and when volatility markets happen, it's, that's an opportunity for you to make money. If it's just stagnant Jim, there's no way for you to make money. So you have to be able to be prepared.

And if you are on the sideline, if you are on the sidelines, make sure that you have money so that you can pull the trigger. A lot of people, they're like I missed that. You didn't even have money on the sideline. So my question to you is. Gold is going up. Everybody's running out to buy gold.

So what are their options for the gold side?

Jim Sullivan: Yeah. Uh, that's a good question. They, and they're heavy to carry around, so I'm sure you don't want to carry, and they're a called weapon too, exactly. Yeah. And just as far as this not being financial advice I am also licensed as an RI. So I probably should have and been a bit compliant and said that this is not financial advice.

But one thing I wanna say about that is clearly it is, right? I'm telling you that I think that Bitcoin significantly can go significantly higher. You need to have the assets behind that to understand it in a three to five year timeframe. And if you do have that, then on your own, you can take the information that you're hearing here and you can put that to work, but you're putting that to work with your own understanding of what you're doing.

There are obviously a lot of ETFs out there that you can buy. Pretty much every large financial firm has an ETF. You can play the gold miners right now. With price of gold and where it is. What

Speaker: an et I wanna, what is an ETF? I don't wanna assume everyone understands. Go.

Jim Sullivan: An ETF is an exchange traded fund that tracks any type of asset.

It can track gold, it can track the dollar, it can track the s and p 500. Matter of fact, one of the largest ETFs in the world is SPY, which tracks the s and p 500, which is the five largest companies in the United States, all held in one basket. So you have a nice diversified basket of stocks to own the S-P-S-P-Y.

Speaker 6: investment.[00:14:00]

Lyann Credit Nguyen: For that. Can you expand on that? How people can participate? Because I know does Bitcoin fund, I mean you can Google it you can, chat GBT and ask which types of ETFs that I can get involved in that I don't actually have to outlay a lot 'cause it's all leverage. Can you give us a few examples?

So the best way to really do it is if you don't have it, a financial advisor that that, you can talk to one, reach out to them, or two, you can Google Bitcoin, ETF. And what you really wanna see is there's so much competition that the, fees have dropped down to like very, low.

They're like 10 basis points, 0.1%. So they're significantly low, but they've had massive amount of inflows, the largest amount of inflows ever into an ETF over the past two years, have gone into Bitcoin ETFs. It's been just extraordinarily to, see what's happened in that space. So again, like if you can get an inkling of what I was saying, what's I think's gonna happen, an ETFA, Bitcoin ETF is a great way to do it.

And the Galaxy Invesco has one that's a really great great EETF to to own.

Lyann Credit Nguyen: Thank you, Migena. Go ahead. I know you have crazy questions asked.

And here we are hot topics, Bitcoin gold, which we know a lot longer. But then ai, right?

AI Revolution and Investment Opportunities

Migena Agaraj: Yes. We've seen in the AI space, a lot of AI publicly traded companies as well as private companies, their stock is moving tremendously. Do you foresee an AI bubble?

Jim Sullivan: Yeah. It's interesting. I put a note out yesterday and I was speaking about I was actually used the note that came from Goldman Sachs analyst talking about the AI bubble. So the answer, the quick answer to your question is no, not right now and only reason I say that is I don't think the valuations of the largest the Mag seven to include companies like Palantir.

These are extraordinarily profitable companies. Amazon meta Google, they really are using their internal profits. So back in the day of, in 2000, the big tech bubble, most of that was fueled by debt. Now, there are some private companies that are raising debt to try to build out electrical systems to power these GPU systems.

So that's something you have to keep an eye on and yes, prices of a lot of those assets have gone up. So we're, at a elevated level, and I wrote that in the note yesterday, but I don't think we're at like a really ridiculous level that's going to, that's gonna turn into turn into a bubble.

He is gonna sell a lot of books, right? It's a really interesting story. I'm not quite sure he is right that's part of what I'm saying. It's a good talking point and it gets in people's heads. And back to you credit, talking about gold. If you think we're headed toward a AI bubble where you're gonna see 50, 70% drop in the markets, you wanna move your money to gold.

'cause that gold is a safe asset. So that's one of the reasons why you've seen a real significant move in gold over the past six to nine months is there's a lot of people that wanna put their money into a safe asset. Not to mention you've seen weakness in the dollar, the debasement in the dollar has Dr driven money into gold.

And it really will, it will trade the, it will change the trade fi world and we can get into that as well. And AI that's gonna change the way we manufacture and we move and we do things. We are. Again, living in a time that's pretty unique. And all of that started from the internet back in the early nineties to what it is today.

Being able to allow these technologies to be as, as efficient as they are. And you look at the major companies behind it, they have extraordinary amounts of cash flow. So the answer to your question I think we're still really we're, third inning probably in what's happening in the AI as far as the prices of the, of investments.

And I have two kids in college who are gonna be coming out looking for work and it's getting more difficult every year because of these types of technologies. But we've always, as a nation shifted. To finding a more better opportunity for work. And there'll be opportunity out there within the AI space.

So I hope, I dunno if that answered your question or not, but it's a kinda where I see things going.

Wendy Butler: Yes. For sure. We it, comes to mind. Some other guests that we've had on in particular Nitty Octar who talks about quantum computing with d picking stocks at the speed of thought or trading stocks at the speed of thought.

What do you think about that?

Quantum Computing and Algorithmic Trading

Wendy Butler: What do you think about these quantum bot trading and all of the things that are happening with that?

Yet these are the 10 most profitable companies in the world, right? So those companies can be easily manipulated by their stock, by the way, I'm sorry, can be manipulated by algorithms. And then with the quantum computing and with even more powerful computing sources, you're gonna see more and more of that.

For me, I try to look through the, the, forest and find the trees, because within that forest there's a lot of great ideas. And regardless of how volatile the market might be based on algorithmic movements or quantum computing, you're going to find great companies. And by the way, some of them are in that space.

And he has my opinion, one of the first software to really get into industry and change it with ai. It's really unique what he's doing. Back to what the trading aspect? Yeah, there's gonna be a lot of algorithmic trading, quantum computing, but it's not, I don't think it's ever gonna change the mindset.

The brain set of finding good companies and making a good investment for the long term. So hopefully my job is not gonna be taken away from me by quantum computing, but we'll see.

Speaker: Yeah. I'm gonna, I'm gonna jump in.

Trading Strategies and Financial Advice

Speaker: Jim, at what point would a person be confident enough to trade their own account versus having someone like you to trade the account for them?

Speaker 7: Why don't you do your own heart surgery too?

Speaker: Cindy? Good

Speaker 4: point. Cindy.

Somebody. I'm just saying

Speaker 7: I'm just saying I hand my money over to my professionals. I don't claim to know it. All right. So I'm just saying, let me know when you can do your own heart surgery till your own truth when you go to dentist.

Speaker 4: Good point, Cindy.

Speaker 7: Somebody.

Speaker 5: No. So that's, a really good question.

Credit and I love the heart surgery analogy, right? That's absolutely spot on. I, again, I've been in this business for 30 years and I mentioned that my first nine years I had seven different jobs. And I, look back at it as pretty unique. I was doing a lot of different things.

Recognize what they're doing. Stanley Druckenmiller says it best, right? Find a good idea, put it in a basket, and watch that basket really closely. And that's what I feel like I've had the most success and I found over the long term credit that I have better returns than trying to trade the account.

Nothing wrong with trading people do it and have great success with it. I feel like you end, up with a lot of tax liability at some point. But over the long period of time, I found just, and again having done this as long as I have. If you feel like you're not beating the market over with a really consistent long period of time, then you need to hire somebody to do it for you.

I I'll give you ideas. I really don't mind one bit. Over time I find out most of those folks rather focus on their business and let me do what I do, and then they have success. I had a call with a new client today who basically just said, I don't wanna look at this anymore. I just want you to do it.

I think that answers your question credit, but going back to the the listener who mentioned the, heart surgeon. Make sure you talk to a DA number of different investment managers

Speaker 7: that would be Sydney and who focus on

Speaker 5: investing. Thanks Sydnee, Cindy.

Speaker 6: Yeah

Speaker 5: That, I think that should answer the question.

I think it's hard to really be successful and beat the market. Some, people do, but not many do.

Speaker: Yeah, I'm sure you do credit. I know we've

Speaker 5: talked about it.

Speaker: I, know I live on the edge 'cause I do live in Vegas. Every day is a gamble. Not sure if I'm gonna be here, but, jim, another question is, I've dealt with a lot of brokers.

I dealt with a lot of investment bankers and advisors, and this is back about seven or eight years when crypto started cripping up and people are starting to trade it. A lot of investment. Bankers cannot talk about crypto. I know my Raymond James Guy that's so conservative, he can't even be around it.

Transition to Crypto and Digital Asset Treasury

Speaker 5: I mean that, that's a great question and I have a number of really good analogies. First, for myself, I mentioned that I came from the investment world, like I was on a buy side and sell side and trading. So I never worked for a large wealth management firm like Schwab or Merrill Lynch. So I've never been what's the word I'm trying to use?

Kept in a corner where I couldn't do certain things. My asset class was anything I wanted to invest in. And I've always wanted to be that way. And matter of fact, I used to be at a different broker dealer that one ti time wanted to limit my ability to do certain things and I moved someplace that gave me more autonomy.

And I went over and spoke to them a good hour and a half about Bitcoin because now on her own, she has the ability to recommend an asset allocation to her clients. So you're seeing more and more of the ability for the large, they call 'em wirehouses, the Merrill Lynches, the Schwabs, the TD Ameritrade.

Today they have one of the largest trading crypto trading desks in the country. So you don't always wanna do what they say to do what they're doing right. And they clearly were building a crypto trading desk while he was calling it Pet Rocks. Now he did come back later and say, Hey you're, on your own to make a decision.

If you wanna buy Bitcoin, don't listen to me. I don't. Really believe in it. But if you do, you know all the best to you. But you've started to see these major banks start, allowing more and more of their clients, or more importantly, their advisors recommend an asset allocation to Bitcoin. And, one more thing, I found this kind of interesting and the conversation I had with the woman who moved her business from Merrill Lynch.

All right. Now that's crazy. They're not gonna put a hundred percent of their assets in, but you've seen more and more firms go to five or 10%. And I'm trying to think, I think BlackRock went to 15% allocation. To answer your original question, we're seeing more and more of the large banks allow their advisors to talk about an allocation to, to Bitcoin and more and more people.

I look, lemme just get a little bit off path and talk about something unique that's also happened in, in, with Bitcoin and digital assets. There's something called a. Digital Asset Treasury Company or a debt, a DAT. Michael Sailor at MicroStrategy started the first one and everybody thought he was crazy.

And people started recognizing, Hey, this guy's onto something. So if you're Apple computer, if you're meta, you're Amazon and you're sitting on billions in dollars in your treasury at some point. You might start thinking of putting that into an appreciating asset, not into a depreciating asset, like the dollar that money sitting on your balance sheet is just losing value.

So what these digital asset treasury companies have done is said, okay, I, we get it. All right. They've gone and they've acquired companies whose management teams decided to drop what they were doing and just start acquiring Bitcoin. They've done it with Ethereum and they're called Digital Asset Treasury companies.

You're gonna have to put that money to work and your shareholders are gonna start asking questions of why you're not doing it right. And this is, Amazon, this is meta, this is every one of the large companies out there. There and you've started to slowly see companies start to shift to putting Bitcoin on their balance sheet.

And you're, gonna see it more from sovereign nations as well pretty soon. Yeah. So there's a lot of that happening. And the last point, I'll bring up these digital asset treasury companies. I'm good friends with Michael Novogratz from Galaxy Digital, and he was on the call today, the earnings call today, which by the way, they had a phenomenal earnings call.

So I don't know if that answers your question credit, but you we're seeing these changes come at us all over the place, and that's one of the reasons why. I happen to be so bullish on Bitcoin and digital assets, Bitcoin specifically as a reserve asset, you're gonna see it everywhere soon. It's already happening and it's happening faster than you, you can imagine.

And just the fact that Grant Cardone changed his mind he's a sharp guy. And when he recognized this opportunity he, was willing to change his mind and come out, with a positive opinion on it.

Ask you this quick question, Jim, because I know you're on a tight timeframe here. But one of the companies that you talk about a lot. Galaxy Digital. We have to talk about that tonight. Before you go, you were on you were with Novogratz ringing the bell this year. There's your hat. Go. Tell us about the experience.

Introduction to Galaxy Digital

Speaker 4: Why do you like this company? Where is this company going? Let's hear about it.

Speaker 5: Yeah. Again, when I talk specifically about one company as credit mentioned, this is not financial advice. Do your own homework if you really wanna learn more about it. Obviously it's something I've have a passion.

Galaxy's Diverse Involvement in Digital Assets

Bitcoin, Ethereum, and through digital asset treasury companies, they have a trading unit where if you wanna sell a trading desk, sorry, if you wanna sell a digital asset, they sold 80,000 Bitcoin this year. For one person that was like a I don't even know the size, like an eight, $8 billion, $80 billion sale.

They're designed to take what digital assets are going to do and take it to the traditional finance world.

Tokenization and Its Rapid Growth

Speaker 5: In today's call, there was a lot of talk about something called tokenization. And this is not something, this is something that's happening really quickly. Galaxy Stock is now tokenized. Larry Fink, who's the chairman of BlackRock, said every real world asset to include real estate will be tokenized in the next 10 years, probably five years.

Galaxy's company is there to help you take and tokenize your business.

Galaxy's Venture Capital Investments

They literally have their fingers in everything. They honestly have become the Goldman Sachs of the space. And because they're a first mover and they've been in this space for about eight years now, they really have become the place you wanna go if you wanna learn about what's happening in the space.

If you're an institution, somebody with a significantly large amount of money and you want to get in the space, and it was fascinating on the call today that Mike said and his head of asset management said that they've never been more busy than they have this past three months and into this month.

Galaxy's Unique Tokenization Case Study

Speaker 5: I'm gonna give you a really unique situation that they did maybe six months ago. There's a very famous strata, various violin that was owned by a Russian family, a royal family and the owner was the Japanese fellow who it's about a $30 million violin. And he knew he wanted to sell it, but instead of selling it, he had it tokenized at Galaxy.

And then he borrowed against that. So that tokenized asset became an NFT, right? That Galaxy owns and Galaxy holds it as collateral. And they lent it out. They lent him money. We don't know how much they bar he borrowed against it, but instead of actually having to sell that asset, he was able to borrow against it and used it as collateral.

Yeah.

Galaxy's Market Position and Future Prospects

Speaker 5: I'm, I just find these guys being the best way to learn about everything happening in the digital asset space and a way to be invested in it as well. And I'll say one other thing about Galaxy. You've had on a number of really great entrepreneurs who've had a lot of success, and they're really fun to listen to and really incredible stories.

He, owns 55% of the company, so he's extremely invested in what he's doing, and the guys that work for him are the best of the best. I'm happy to talk about that more offline if anybody has interest. But it's really a fascinating company that, that they've built and today was the best quarter they've ever had, and it's really, I think, pushed them to a level where they're, the best in the industry

Speaker 4: for sure.

I guess it hit about 45 today, didn't it? It's, it, was it 45?

Speaker 5: Somewhere around there. Yeah. Yeah, Nobody's looking every day right. She's got, there you go.

Speaker 4: Nobody's looking every day except us. Yeah.

Galaxy One: A New Retail Platform

Speaker 5: The next thing I'll say, Wendy, is that, yeah, what's interesting about Galaxy is it's almost like every month or so they come up with a new product that they launched into the space to help individual investors or even institutional investors learn more about it.

And again, I feel like they're, just consistently getting yourselves out there and promoting what's going on. And you can own part of that business by owning shares in the company.

Speaker 3: Oh wow. Exactly. Yeah. Can I ask a quick question? Yes, go ahead. Frontier. But wow, this is so educational.

Family Offices and Digital Assets

Speaker 5: Yeah they've been slower to adopt. Bitcoin as part of the, OR in deal assets as part of their investment strategy. Most family offices work with very wealthy families, right? So they're not really worried about growing their wealth or turning 50 million into a hundred million.

They're really about preserving that wealth and really trying to make sure that that something doesn't really go wrong with that. So they have a very small part of their investment portfolio into risk assets. And there's no question right now Bitcoin and digital assets are risk assets, right?

I think over time, as I mentioned, the volatility will probably decrease and it might be, and it'll be more like gold and less of a risk asset. Sorry, risk asset, excuse me. But right now it's definitely considered that way. To answer your question, I think they're a little slow to to, move on it.

Speaker 3: Thank you. No I, love it. I No, thanks you, you're confirming my observations because they're not there yet.

And I love that you said that there's more about preservation than it is about increasing. It's about plane safe. There definitely are the conservative side of investors out there, but thanks. Appreciate it.

Speaker 4: So let's let's open it. I know you've got a go, Jim, but we did want to see if there was anybody in the audience that wanted to ask a question.

I

Speaker 8: see. Yes, ma'am.

Speaker 4: Go ahead. Go ahead.

So, knowing that corporations aren't fully K ized, I'm gonna call it ized, I made that up. In, in a sense of the daco literally is the, a decentralized financing strategy. So that's literally the whole concept of all cryptocurrency. In, in general. My question though is since you trade for other people, my question was literal, like 30 minutes ago, but I think, I'm almost forgot it.

Do you, guys utilize EAs in in, in trading?

We have a value perspective, so something has to really get beaten down before I'm gonna jump in and try to be an investor. So it just takes time to find something in that space. But no, I don't use any outside, ad advice or I do have some research analyst that I really love.

No. That I, no

Speaker 8: I think I guess terminology would, it would be called a trading bot but I'm, but I was using the no form formal EA as an expert advisor as in a 'cause a lot of times you guys have a strategy, so sometimes it's creating an automation based on the strategy.

Speaker 5: Yeah, no, I'm, I am I'm an old guy, so I have old school ex perspective, so I still believe in I don't have a trading bot or anything of that sorts. Yeah, I stay more toward and I don't even trade that much to be honest with you, and you get in and sit on something for years and a little bit later,

Speaker 8: but

Speaker 8: how that answer your question long, long term, that sound like a long term.

Definitely. 'cause what I'm talking about may be more of a day trend.

Speaker 5: I am literally I can just say that. Yeah. Yeah. You don't wanna reach out to me unless you have at least a three to five year window beyond that. Oops.

Speaker 4: Got it. Hey, I did wanna let Nelson had a question for you.

Speaker 2: Go ahead, Nelson.

Absolutely. Thank you so much, Wendy. But Jim, oh my God, man, from tokenization to just, a lot of information and I. And I, I really want to thank you for just sharing your time and wisdom with us here tonight.

Bitcoin Maximalists and Decentralization

Speaker 2: But on the topic of ETFs so I would assume that they're these are much safer routes when it comes to investing in these asset classes, specifically Bitcoin considering the financial institutions that have those ETFs.

Speaker 5: Yeah. So you're hitting on a totally unique part of the digital asset space.

Bitcoin maxes are people who believe only in Bitcoin. They believe Bitcoin was designed as a reserve asset for the world similar to gold. And that because it has a limited supply, that's the only asset that really exists. And what part of what they also believe, and I believe in this as well, there's 10,000 digital assets out there.

So that's happened already in the space. And we're gonna see a lot of the digital. Assets go away. Back to your question, the Bitcoin maxes believe in decentralization 100%. They believe that you buy that asset and you keep it separate from any financial institution. If they had their way, there wouldn't be Bitcoin ETFs.

The only way you would buy Bitcoin is you buy it, you put it on a, digital wallet and he'd hold it in a digital wallet. And that's the way they, look at it. So that's just the belief of the Bitcoin Maxis, be honest with you, Michael Saylor is a Bitcoin maxi. Okay? He only believes in Bitcoin.

It's the only thing he's putting on his balance sheet. He has reasons why by the way, I know it's on his balance sheet, but he has that held, those Bitcoin held in custody in a very secure digital wallet, most likely with a company called bco. So he's a perfect example of somebody who's a Bitcoin maxi.

If you talk to him about decentralization or tokenization, they just launched Galaxy One. And that's a trade fi system, meaning it's not decentralized, it's not a tokenized asset, it's not a tokenized wallet down the road. And he's talked about this, you're gonna have a digital wallet that you're gonna hold digital assets, checking banking savings.

And they're gonna be be, eliminated. The concept of banks are really afraid of, they're really concerned about the idea that you could have an online bank and not really have to use a, brick and mortar bank any longer. And you're even seeing some of those banks start to create digital wallets.

We're just not there yet. Nova Gass was talking about that today on the call. We're really close to massive amount of of tokenization and they talked a lot about I know there's some realtors on here as well. They talked about the settlement process of, a, real estate transaction being done on the blockchain, instead of settling in two or three days, or two days, it's gonna settle in a matter of minutes.

Speaker 2: Oh, it's very interesting. Very interesting indeed. Yeah I can, I keep going with questions ladies. One more thing,

Speaker 5: if you

Speaker 2: left me

The Future of Tokenization and Regulation

Speaker 5: I'm gonna, I'm gonna throw it, I'm gonna throw it back to you because one thing I know that we're working on is obviously raising some money for Chatter, right?

Of course. And we're, we've had some successes. We moved along here and you're in your a of trying to grow your business. Part of what I'm doing is looking for good investment ideas for my clients. So we're doing this for Chatter, and I brought up the idea of tokenizing chatter. As, an investment option, right?

And then that equity will be held in a digital wallet or in some sort of digital format. And, that's gonna happen. And then Nelson, you and I talked about this today, we're a little early, maybe it's hard to be the first mover, but whoever is that first mover who captures that first really successful tokenization of their companies, they're gonna raise a lot of money.

And if that is like your company is doing, chatter is extraordinarily successful, that's gonna change the dynamic of how companies raise money. And you're not gonna have to pay an investment banker tens of millions of dollars to raise money. You are gonna do it right over a decentralized platform where you're able to just, the success of your business just shows itself and you're able to sell that token.

To individual investors,

Because again tokenizing a startup a private company it's essentially like you cut out a second,

Speaker 5: but I think I can look, this is what's happened in the past. Year you had an SEC in the last administration that was very negative, this whole industry. And if you, a lot, and rightfully so in some ways, like these ICOs I mentioned, a lot of people made money.

'cause we know where this is going, right? This is going to happen and you can't stop it. So let's start talking about what we can do to regulate, manage, organize, control, right? And make this concept of tokenization work. You can't use the 1930 Securities Act for a 2025 digital asset. It just doesn't work.

So there, you're already have seen stable coins that are being issued and you have the Genius Act that came out that talks about what coins can and can't do. Now you have the Clarity Act going through Congress, most likely gonna pass most. Bipartisan, we're starting to generate regulations around exactly what you just brought up so you don't have fraud built into the system.

I I, think you're, seeing a real change. So again, I'm gonna quote Novogratz today, but he says it's coming, it's it, we wish it happened earlier. It's three, five, and 10 years from now, but it's coming and it's gonna be somebody's gonna step out there. Maybe it's you, Nelson, maybe it happens where you step out there and be one of the first companies to tokenize their asset and raise money and then all of a sudden.

A social media company to me is the perfect spot. 'cause you could sell that chatter token as part of your part of your rockets as a payment processor that can convert it to a stable coin. And you see where I'm going with that, right?

Speaker 2: No, there aren't

Speaker 5: enough digital wallets out there being held by people for it to happen.

Speaker 2: a hundred percent.

A hundred percent. And if that future does come, I can't hear you, Nelson.

Speaker 5: Sorry.

Speaker 2: You guys can't hear me right now.

Speaker 8: Yeah,

Speaker 2: guys, I can't hear him. You can't hear me? Oh, wow.

Speaker 4: Yeah,

Speaker 2: I can

Speaker 4: hear

Speaker 2: you.

Speaker 8: Yeah, I can hear all y'all.

Speaker 2: You can. I'm good.

Speaker 8: Yes. You're good.

Speaker 2: Okay. Okay. So, yeah. I, if that future does come right, you have a first mover, you have a first mover, it becomes the norm.

It's like what then is the point for a company to go public, right? 'cause it's like you tokenize your assets it's supply and demand ultimately, but people can move that asset just like a public stock, right? Don't you see those two worlds conflating with each other?

And again. I'm probably not, I'm certainly not an expert in this. You could sit in the Galaxy offices and there are guys that talk about this all day long trying to figure out where this is gonna go. Their business is built around making this happen. If this is successful, this company will be a major company in in, in the digital asset space.

They already are, but they'll even be bigger than that because they're the guys who are building out this, system. And like you just said, why would you go public? Or why would you pay Morgan Stanley Goldman Sachs to tens of millions of dollars to take your company public when you could do it through an algorithm online and save yourself a tremendous amount of money?

The concept of tokenization could, in many ways, through supply and demand, eliminate that mispricing of the value of your company.

Speaker 2: No, maybe. That's very interesting, concept. James. Thank you so much. I'm not gonna hog the mic anymore, but this, Fantastic.

Speaker 5: Yeah. I, again I'm not the expert here on, on, this.

I'm more of an investor trying to find ways that we can get involved in this space and, I have my thoughts on it. But this is the type of things that you're listening to on these calls when they're talking about tokenization, digitization decentralization. This is where we're, this is.

Speaker 4: is. And Nelson, you had a good point that, maybe, we're not even gonna be ringing the bell anymore. It's gonna be a thing of the past. Exactly. The kids are gonna watch it and Oh yeah.

I remember when they used to do that,

Speaker 5: Jim. Absolutely. You've already seen that happen a lot of

Speaker 9: ways. Maybe touch on one

Speaker: Ray has a question. Go ahead, Ray.

Speaker 9: Yeah. Te tell the audience about Galaxy One and the capability of up to a quarter million dollars to put, you know this, the amount of money, let's say a hundred thousand in the Galaxy, wanted a fixed rate of 8%, which is.

Speaker 5: Yeah. What it's referring to is Galaxy launched a product in the last month called Galaxy One.

It's their retail platform, similar to Robinhood. Similar to Coinbase. They offer a lower income investor, 4% yield, which is basically a market yield at a, at a 10 year treasury yield. And they also own, they also offer, sorry, an accredited investor an 8% yield, which is pretty significant. And that's a guaranteed yield based on a couple things.

One, they have a $3 billion balance sheet, so they have no problem making the payment. Two, they take that money. In and because of the digital asset yield on some of the staking they do with Ethereum and Solana and their Bitcoin yield, they're able to generate a 10 to 12% yield for themselves, and they turn right around and pay that out as an eight as an 8% yield.

So that's one thing they're doing. Two, they're gen, they're getting a lot of high income investors to put money into that. So now they're growing the platform and it's just a really easy way for them to raise $250 million that they can reinvest at a higher rate. This is what banks and insurance companies have been doing for a hundred years.

They take your premiums, they take your deposits, and they reinvest 'em at higher rates than they pay you. It's pretty simple. It's, it is, this is basic math. And this is what Galaxy has done, offering a really significant 8% yield. Again, not financial advice, but it's, safe. It's, gonna get paid out.

It's, it's something I think you should, look into if you're looking for it. Looking for that kind of yield.

Speaker 4: Yeah. Who's, doing that right now? And

They're growing at 20, 25% a year, generating 10 to 12% yield and saying, okay, look, if we can generate that yield, why not pay it out to our customers at 8%? And then we have the ability to gen, to get all these new customers on our platform. That same customer that gives them 25 or a hundred thousand dollars might actually go in and buy some Bitcoin, buy some stock, start using their platform as a as their, they might shift away from Coinbase or Robinhood.

And eventually they said today that they've signed up, oh boy, thousands of customers. Their average client has a net asset of 200, $2 million, a net asset worth of $2 million in net and, liquid assets of over 250,000. That's pretty big. That's, a high net worth group. They're, growing a pretty, pretty fast business right there.

Okay. They're using that return to pay the 8% yield that I mentioned. That's even a whole different part of what of, what they're doing. But you have to be this is somebody I've known for a long time that's, that has known that, alexy guys for a long while. And they're just in all different parts of the business and really recreating what's happening in the space.

Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Where can everybody find you, Jim? We don't have salt. Blue

Speaker 5: wood.com is the my website, and from there you can navigate around and see how to reach out to me. I would love to talk crypto. One of the things I'm trying to do is get away from the word crypto and focus on digital assets.

It's remember the junk bond back in the day? They, now call it high yield. Crypto to digital assets would be a nice way to, to, to digital asset,

To look at it. But again, it's, I spend my entire day looking for good ideas to invest in and that's, what we're all about.

Speaker 9: Jim, will you do as a courtesy for anybody on the program tonight, or that was on YouTube or TikTok, instead of needing a half million dollars as a minimum investment, do a smaller investment for these people that were, took the time to listen to you?

They, want to invest. I'd be happy to talk to 'em. Wow. Okay. You have to use the code. The code. Rhett Butler is the code. Don't tell anybody that's speaker code.

Speaker 3: You need to know how to spell that. So No, you, you mean Rainmaker?

Speaker: Rainmaker Power Hour. Okay. You can use Rainmaker too.

Speaker 9: I like Rainmaker better.

Yeah. Keep my name out of it. Rainmaker. We'll go with Rainmaker. We'll go with Rainmaker. That's a better idea. Thank you. Credit. I love it. I, but guys I would highly recommend, jim and I have done business now for over 20 some years and the, and Wendy was skeptical when we first got married and we converted a lot of the money.

I did some trades for, and Jim did the bulk of the trades and Wendy's a very happy lady right now, let's put it that way.

Thank you guys for supporting us every week and we do want to thank our tech team, Paul Perez, Nigel Line Du Bois, and Dan Winters who keep us running every week and streaming us over to all the various platforms. And so guys, we will see you next Tuesday at our new time, eight Eastern Central TI eight Eastern Standard.

Time is our new time and we appreciate everyone in the audience coming to. Thanks guys. Participant. Thanks Nelson too. A Pega, Cindy Stump, all. Thank you everybody. Bye.