In this episode of Psychologically Speaking, Leila Ainge checks back in with coaches Emma Thomas and Lucy Green a few months after they set ambitious business goals. The conversation reveals how real progress unfolds.

Emma shares how a community project had to pause due to unforeseen circumstances and teases us with a new book project!. Lucy reflects on launching her programme Good Company, which sparked strong interest but fewer sales than expected, leading her to adapt the offer and rethink how clients take their first steps into corporate work.

Across the conversation, a common theme emerges: the process of pursuing goals generates insight, momentum, and new opportunities. Both coaches discover that experimentation, reflection, and small pivots are valuable.

The episode explores the psychology behind this, including anticipated failure, experimentation, and the role of community and accountability in sustaining progress. Ultimately, the takeaway is simple when you pursue a goal, the real reward is often what you learn along the way.

Two coaches, two goals, a few months of real life in between.

2

Today, we're checking back in to see what has changed for Emma Thomas and Lucy Green, two

brilliant coaches who set intentions around coherence and communicating their expertise.

3

I'm Leila Ainge, psychologist and researcher, and this is Psychologically Speaking.

4

hello and welcome back to the podcast, both of you.

5

It's so lovely to have you here.

6

to be back.

7

having me back, yeah!

8

And it's been what, less than eight weeks since you set out your intentions, Lucy, how are

things for you?

9

Good and actually I think because mine was quite time bound in terms of what I was doing

10

I had a deadline to meet at the end of January anyway for getting through the work that I

was planning.

11

so yeah, so I feel like actually it's, it's kind of good to speak to you at this point and

recognise that actually I've done almost more than I realise I've done.

12

quite good progress, although it's not what I expected, but in a good way, it's kind of,

you know, turned out differently, but it's felt like I've done a lot of the, like a lot of

13

the work.

14

you were working towards launching something in January and I've definitely seen stuff

happening in the social media world around that so I can't wait to kind of understand how

15

was it from the other side and a lot of people who listen to this are also doing things

where they launch stuff and it can be really nerve-racking when you're launching something

16

Emma, how are you feeling?

17

It's a mixed bag, I think we can say.

18

So some stuff's gone really well, other things I haven't been able to get hold of people.

19

I was talking about the holding up the sky community, which has sadly, the person that I

was launching that with has some sort of family issues.

20

So we've had to kind of wrap that up and sort of put it to one side for who knows.

21

which was very sad.

22

yeah, and then I was saying off air, my February got slightly hijacked by a triumvirate of

things happening family wise that, as you know, when you're a sort of solo business

23

founder, doesn't take much to pull the rug out from underneath you.

24

there's kind of, if you don't work, you don't get stuff done.

25

no team.

26

Really, it really does.

27

I've actually got my small person at home with me today, which was completely unexpected.

28

And that is the theme of my next season on my podcast is Expect the Unexpected.

29

And that has come out of, I suppose, sitting and doing all of these planning, goal setting

workshops, and then catching up with folk and, you know, 90 % of goal achievement is the

30

unexpected stuff that happens along the way.

31

I'm really pleased that you're here today, Emma, because you just told me before we came

on air that there was an incident in the garden yesterday, which resulted in an emergency

32

trip to an optician for a scratched cornea.

33

So I'm very pleased that you're

34

you'll be glad to know they're still there.

35

very, very good.

36

uh you've mentioned there, that holding up the sky, which was this community that you put

a lot of love and energy into has

37

unfortunately

38

its doors.

39

Interestingly, Your goals were very much around doing different things.

40

So you wanted this coherence across your business.

41

You were interested in mapping out your website.

42

We talked about how you could use your skills to do something like a focus group and get

people to help you do that rather than doing it on your own.

43

And then there was something which was taking that coherence and looking at your kind of

client packages.

44

I'm just going to be really compassionate and say, you know, it might've been quite

difficult, some things need to make space for the next things that happen.

45

But how are you, how are you sitting with it at the moment?

46

think it was an interesting exercise in letting go.

47

I could probably have let my ego drive and sort of powered through and go, no, I refuse to

kind of give up.

48

But actually, there were other lessons in there around, if I was going to do this again,

the things that I would do differently in terms of sort of before launching something and

49

Yeah, sort of more market research, more kind of perhaps thought around the business

model.

50

So yeah, I think it wasn't entirely a failure.

51

And I've learned a lot and I had some lovely feedback from the people that did join us

for, I think it was sort of three months, three and a bit months inside that community.

52

It'll probably inform something else that happens at some point this year.

53

Yeah, including I'm maybe sending a book proposal off to a publisher.

54

So don't put that on my goals list this year, but we'll see.

55

Unfortunately you've just committed that to audio.

56

I'll be popping you back in at of the year.

57

public, I'll have to make it happen.

58

Instead of weaseling out.

59

Exactly.

60

It is really interesting when things don't go to plan.

61

it was one of the reasons that I launched into the new year with, here's everybody with

their wonderful goals.

62

And then the next week I released it and here's seven ways in which all those goals are

going to derail.

63

such as, you know, time, cost, lost momentum, derailment, life happening.

64

And sounds like that derailment definitely was something that came.

65

bit of a curve ball for you with a partner you were working with.

66

There's this idea that know plans do break down and that's the expect the unexpected.

67

But let me ask you a question about enjoyment.

68

tell us a little bit about what you've gained from it.

69

Oh, think, as in with lots of things, really, there's this sort of sense of

experimentation and like, we're just going to do it and see what happens and what can we

70

actually learn from the process of doing and tinkering and experimenting.

71

And we played around with pricing, we played around with sort of the cadence at which some

of the kind of group sessions were happening.

72

and I enjoyed tremendously working with Lisa that was definitely a huge positive in terms

of what we were both getting from that relationship, building something together that we

73

really believed in.

74

So whilst it's sort of, it's tinged with a bit of sadness that it's not here right now.

75

Yeah, I'm not at all.

76

sorry that we did that experiment and actually quite pleased with a lot of the ways that

it panned out and having a bit of space and opportunity to play in that way is a huge

77

privilege to be able to say, I'm going to allocate part of my time and my budget to kind

of having a go at something and not be too tied to the outcomes.

78

I think it's so important to have that playfulness and that enjoyment knowing that you can

make hard decisions such as it's time that's it we've had this experiment here's what

79

we've learned from it you mentioned though you know it's given space now

80

in terms of the goals that you set yourself, where has that space moved into?

81

Where have you been able to put more energy?

82

So I've been focusing really on my websites, which at the moment I still have three, soon

to be two, And I think probably since we met as well, doing a bit of work on rebranding

83

and sort of having a more kind of coherent look and feel as a sort of first step to

possibly bringing kind of everything together under one roof.

84

So I'm doing a lot more.

85

sort of connecting backwards and forwards between the two.

86

And they've definitely got, you know, in terms of that branding, a much more of a kind of

a look and feel that the three brands I operate under.

87

look like they belong together, which they do.

88

remind us what those three brands are, thanks.

89

You've got the...

90

Yeah, so there's the middling along podcast, there's managing the menopause, which is my

corporate facing sort of training company, and then the triple shift, which is my coaching

91

practice.

92

yeah.

93

um

94

really excited to open up a conversation between you and Lucy later on, because I know

that this whole corporate arena is exactly where she's focusing her goals are.

95

before we do that, what's the thinking behind keeping two

96

two websites and what you keep separate versus what you bring in together.

97

Hmm.

98

So the podcast doesn't really need to have its own website.

99

So that that will become part of the triple shift.

100

And actually, because it's been going for five years now, it actually gets quite a lot of

traffic.

101

So it doesn't make sense for all that traffic to sit way over here.

102

And then, you know, the stuff that I'm actually actively trying to promote work wise to be

somewhere completely separate.

103

So it, you know, that's a bit of a no brainer really is to kind of to bring the podcast in

underneath the

104

the triple shift umbrella.

105

And then the managing the menopause stuff may well come along and kind of join that in due

course.

106

But I think for the time being that's A, quite a big undertaking.

107

And B, I'm still quite sure that that's what I want to do, I think it is.

108

But yeah, still needs a bit more planning and a bit more, probably a bit more sort of

spaciousness to be able to properly.

109

attack that and not just try and do it and rush it.

110

one of the lessons that you said you learned from the Triple Shift membership was thinking

that things like market research would play more heavily in the future in decision-making.

111

And one of the prompts that we'd looked at as part of your goals was thinking about how

you might use research in this re-imagining or the coherence around your website.

112

Have you had conversations with other people about that?

113

I haven't managed to put any focus groups together.

114

I think it's quite difficult to kind of hard enough to coordinate diaries with one client

at a time without sort of then trying to kind of bring two or three into the mix.

115

So that might still happen.

116

But yeah, otherwise just been having sort of one-to-one conversations with people.

117

And yeah, I had also did a LinkedIn poll last week.

118

to see whether I should change the name of my podcast to align that with the triple shift.

119

So that was quite interesting.

120

So I sort of gave people a couple of options, keep it as it is, completely rebrand it and

focus more on sort of women and the world of work or a sort of third option, which I think

121

was sort of do both.

122

And interestingly, lots of people, the majority seemed to vote for do both.

123

was just making more work for myself there.

124

And obviously I don't have to go by whatever LinkedIn says, but that was quite

interesting, an interesting exercise.

125

it's nice when you ask the question out loud I think sometimes you can be stuck in your

own head can't you thinking what I should or shouldn't be

126

overthinking it.

127

m But yeah, it was interesting to hear people's thoughts and I think it's still open.

128

So need to go back and check what the final scores are.

129

How would you like to work forward with your goal to get this coherence across your

website?

130

definitely migrating across the podcast archive properly is going to take some time.

131

So I think I just need to give myself a bit of capacity to do that and then come back and

revisit the idea of putting everything under one roof a bit later in the year.

132

what is it that you want to focus on

133

So I, next week, actually, I'm going to do my accreditation in a new diagnostic tool

called the Thrive and Grow Index.

134

So it's all about sort of organisational culture and thriving at work.

135

So that's my kind of big shiny thing for this month.

136

I think I talked about, know, sort of shiny object syndrome.

137

So I am really trying to rein myself in, I think, you know, we talked about sort of having

almost like a

138

do self-development, budget, time and or money.

139

So as not to kind of go after too many things at once.

140

that's my kind of, that's my big rock for this month in terms of getting accreditation,

figuring out how I sort of go and pitch that to corporate clients.

141

What does it look like?

142

And actually the part of the training accreditation process, interestingly has, I think an

hour or an hour and a half session on, you know, how do you.

143

go and sell this into organizations, which is great.

144

So yeah, I think that's going to be my, that's going to be my focus for March really is,

is trying to kind of get that up and running once I've

145

I can hear the energy in your voice when you talk about this.

146

you're very much motivated by knowledge acquisition and skill acquisition.

147

And so that has to feature prominently this year.

148

The curious thing here is going to be how you take the learning of launching something.

149

Because you can reiterate that now.

150

You're not starting from a blank point.

151

you're relaunching, it might be something completely different, but you can go through

launching again and whether you do it yourself or with other people, you've learned a lot

152

along the way.

153

I'm very aware that when we spoke to Lucy last, she was like, Leila, I am going to help

women get into corporates and sell their stuff.

154

Yes.

155

I want, I mean, you set a really ambitious goal to, I want to help women secure 1 million

in corporate contracts I'm just interested in your observations really, and just like, you

156

know, what kind of support have you got for Emma today?

157

you

158

I'm not sure if she needs any of my support she sounds like she's doing a great

159

And that was one of the reflections from the last podcast, because we sat there and said,

you are already good at getting corporate

160

I think a lot of my clients actually, I've been talking to a few people recently who have

kind of...

161

when they've been talking about their goals around working with corporates and so on, kind

of suddenly realise they're a lot closer to it than they think, or that they're doing it

162

already and they just don't acknowledge it.

163

It's like, oh, that client doesn't count because they came through contact, or that client

doesn't count because I only did a one-off session.

164

when you start to achieve the goals that you've got for yourself, like working with

corporates, I was listening to your initial podcast, Emma, where you were talking about

165

kind of like, you know, if you five years ago could see the clients you're working with

now,

166

like wow that's actually pretty amazing and I think it's maybe just a little bit of that

that recognising that like you're already doing it, it's already working, you need to

167

almost reflect back on like what has worked, like what got you your last five clients or

your last five gigs and where did they come from and where can you kind of repeat that and

168

actually look at what's worked for you and what your kind of you know it can feel like

it's just coming randomly or it's just like look or happenstance or coincidence and

169

actually when you look back it's like well yeah

170

but you've generated that look somehow.

171

You know, I had a client that said, oh, it was just a lucky break.

172

It was a friend of a friend.

173

And I said, yeah, but you made the effort to have the conversation with them about your

skillset and what you can offer.

174

And you made it clear how you could help them.

175

And actually, you know, at some point you've retrained in this, you know, particular thing

that she's offering.

176

And that's why she's now able to offer at this point.

177

what was the input you had in those lucky breaks or in those things that you made happen?

178

And then where can you kind of exert a bit of control over that going forward and try and

like repeat that process to have your own kind of techniques for filling your sales

179

pipeline and finding those great contacts and those gatekeepers.

180

And it's great that when you're doing the CPD, it's actually got some advice around how to

sell into organizations as well.

181

So I that's often the missing piece, isn't it?

182

CPD or you do some new training then you're left with a skill set going okay but now what?

183

Yeah how do I actually sell this?

184

yeah exactly

185

we're here to make money.

186

I mean, that, you know, it's not a dirty word, is it?

187

We're here to make money, we need to be profitable.

188

If we want to make change in the world and do awesome stuff, then we're going to make the

money flow in our favour.

189

So, you know, that's something I'm really keen to get women to talk about more.

190

Lucy's just really so right in, know, there's so much that you have got right.

191

And there's so much that you are so good at.

192

And again, offline, we were just chatting about how you already have the right people in

the room coming to your things, even when you don't know about them.

193

Cause there was an instance where there's an event I went to a few years ago.

194

And you were just telling me, and there was this woman in this event.

195

She went to my event years ago and I've only just met her properly.

196

And, you know, so you're clearly attracting the right people

197

Thank you.

198

I'm really interested to see where you go with everything.

199

So I'm going to have to get you back on the podcast and much, much later on in the year.

200

But I'm also interested in, you know, the fact that you were talking about book tellers,

tellers.

201

What can you tell us about this?

202

What can I say?

203

So I did last year, I did a sort book proposal writing challenge.

204

If anyone's listening and thinks they want to write a book, Alison Jones's practical

inspiration publishing.

205

And it's brilliant she takes you through sort of various challenges and you get feedback

on

206

And mine is not a business book, but I know Alison, so I kind of, that's how I ended up on

the book proposal challenge.

207

It's not a business book.

208

No, it's not.

209

I'm not, mean, it's really cagey.

210

Yeah.

211

Well, also because it's very, very early stage.

212

So I've kind of got a uh half written proposal, someone's asked me to send it to them.

213

And so I need to actually sit down and...

214

make sure it's kind of, it holds together well enough to be who knows what they're doing.

215

So what does the time scale on this look like?

216

Well, in terms of, I mean, I've got probably I can send them over a proposal within the

next sort of week or two, but whether they do anything with it is an entirely different

217

matter.

218

it's great that you've got a proposal to go.

219

really, really wish you all the luck with that.

220

I'm definitely really curious to know what it is that you're writing about.

221

you'll have to come onto my podcast first to talk about that.

222

I'll tell you offline.

223

I was going to commit it to posterity on here.

224

I would be really surprised if there weren't some business lessons in whatever you write.

225

So yeah, I'm kind of intrigued in that.

226

Lucy, let's focus on your goals.

227

Cause this whole idea of, you know, helping other women to secure that 1 million.

228

I just remember sitting at the time thinking, Oh God, this is so cool.

229

It's cool because you are doing it to support people.

230

but it just felt so inspirational as well.

231

how did your launch go?

232

yeah and it is funny though because when you say that that target around the kind of like

one million we didn't i didn't start there did i we didn't start that kind of came out the

233

conversation didn't it so it's almost you know

234

out, Lucy, so you've got to do it now.

235

know exactly and it's funny because it had been there and I'd like, know, a bit like your

book proposal, I knew it like, but I wasn't sharing it anywhere and then it was kind of

236

like, well, yeah, obviously, actually, this is the point that I'm getting to.

237

This is the kind of goal behind the goal.

238

So it's helped having that and having had that drawn out by the conversation with you to

kind of hold as like, really clear as like kind of a guiding light because it's helped me

239

to

240

to do one of the things I talked about, which was to keep up the momentum post the launch.

241

So the launch that I did was for Good Company, which was the program that I designed that

was to support women who wanted to work at business business.

242

So they were maybe running a successful service led business currently, but they're

working more B2C, so direct new clients.

243

And they perhaps reached a bit of a ceiling where they felt like they

244

who had of kept themselves out in terms of the capacity that they had or they just wanted

to look at having a route to kind of a different market that they could sell to and a

245

different income stream in their business so that they could work with corporates and by

corporates I was kind of trying to open up the definition of that in my messaging.

246

all of the stuff that you were doing on that.

247

thank you.

248

And it feels like that's the thing that really landed in this launch was that people were

saying to me, I've never, you know, I've always thought all corporates isn't for me or

249

it's, you know, this other thing that I'm not qualified for.

250

actually you've opened my eyes to what it could look like.

251

It could look like working for a really cool little niche charity.

252

It could look like doing something for the local authority in my area.

253

could look like working for the NHS or it could look like working with, you know, a

creative design agency or

254

rather than just a kind of like, you know, huge corporate organization that feels a bit

kind of...

255

kind of really commercial or kind of really huge and kind of really kind of faceless in a

way.

256

It felt like they kind of found their hook in by what I've been talking about.

257

So that was really cool.

258

So yeah, I launched the program towards the end of January, I think the launch date was,

and opened up the invitation for people to join and feel like I had a really good launch.

259

There was great energy around there and I got really good feedback from it and loads of

people like you were saying, were kind of like,

260

This is interesting.

261

I've not really thought about this before.

262

definitely got the messaging absolutely bang on.

263

was the conversations people were having in the comments under your posts or videos.

264

like, that's so cool because people really resonate.

265

People got it.

266

They were like, yeah, God, that's me.

267

I am avoiding this.

268

Yes, yeah, yeah, it was clicking, definitely.

269

And that was the kind of conversations I having behind the scenes with people in DM

messages and things like that, and people on consult calls who wanted to talk to me about

270

joining the programme.

271

But that actually didn't translate into the number of sales that I wanted.

272

So I then had to have a bit of uh a bit of a rethink and pivot when the doors closed on

the launch.

273

So I'd wanted only a small group, but kind of, you know, between like four and six to kind

of feel like the group structure that I planned for it would really work.

274

and I only got three sign ups for the programme so I was really happy with that to an

extent because it's landed, there's proof of concept there it was my first go putting it

275

out there, yeah definitely and it was also something I've put off for a long time so I was

just like I'm just glad that I got it over the finishing line and put it out there in the

276

world oh did I not?

277

No.

278

I think, I do you know what, I'm not really sure.

279

I think it was just a case of kind of timing and not quite landing on.

280

feeling like totally sold on what I was positioning it and what I was calling it and then

I think when I came up with you know when sometimes innate you just need a good name that

281

encapsulates something and it's like when I came up with good company I was like yeah this

suddenly makes it feel like everything clicks in terms of what I want to talk about and

282

then I'd done oh thank you and then I'd come up I'd done quite a bit of market research

last summer around this and then kind of stalled in the autumn around moving on that quite

283

quickly which is perhaps the other disconnect for me in

284

of I think if I've gone in a bit sooner after building quite a lot of hype around the

topic where you know I was doing quite a lot of market research and talking to people and

285

doing a survey and kind of getting quite a lot of people on the wait list via that I think

if I maybe moved a bit quicker it might have kind of like been the wave of that momentum

286

but yeah but the people that signed up really wanted to continue even though wasn't a

group format so I've just switched it to more of a one-to-one delivery format because

287

logistically it just wouldn't have worked to get them together

288

So my kind of feeling is that I'm just going to be able to get some really great case

studies out those clients that I'm working with.

289

You know, it feels like a win for me because I had people sign up, I had people say, yes,

this is really interesting for me.

290

But I the big learning is actually the way I'd structured the offer wasn't going to

deliver, wasn't reflective of the messaging I was putting out there.

291

Bye.

292

the messaging that I was putting out there like you say was around this kind of like this

is possible for you you know anyone can give it a go kind of corporate is available to

293

everybody like no matter how like far away you feel from it or how intimidated you are by

it there's a way to make it work for you and so lots of people were kind of like oh I'd

294

like to have a go at that but actually my offer was a really comprehensive like let's get

in let's do this whole thing you know and so many people were saying to me I was hovering

295

over the button to join but I was like I don't think I've got

296

the capacity or I haven't got the time or I'm not entirely sure this is exactly the

direction I want to go in.

297

So it's just felt like a real kind of learning curve for me in terms of recognising that

you know I wasn't exactly sure what the objections would be in my audience in my community

298

or what you know however much market research you do you can never really know if people

are gonna if that's going to turn to sales until you literally invite them to sign up and

299

pay.

300

it's so important, isn't it, to reflect on the fact that you did this in January.

301

In the one month of the year where people are out of Christmas, yes, we do have that new

year, new start momentum, but relying on people already probably having budgeted to do

302

something at that point in year and also having the, like you said, the time and the space

to do it.

303

So to get three people off the books and paid up,

304

Yeah.

305

a brand new offer in January.

306

I think that is just amazing.

307

I'm going to reflect on what happened with my GoalSprint group as well.

308

So as well as doing goal setting on the podcast, I launched a separate thing, I was aiming

to get what six to eight people.

309

I thought six to eight would be nice for a small group.

310

And I got four.

311

the messaging and the amount of time I spent talking about it was really helpful.

312

I think it really pushed me out of my comfort zone.

313

And so listening to you talk about that now, going, yeah, yeah.

314

You know, that you learn so much by probably not achieving what you think you want to get.

315

And that...

316

that's something that I think we forget on the way or way so there's like this kind of

psychological idea of anticipated guilt of failure so we can sometimes become really

317

paralyzed in our action because we're anticipating that we might fail and then that brings

this guilt emotion so that's the thing that paralyzes is not procrastination if you like

318

but if you can

319

accept the fact that there's going to be this disconnect between what you have to envision

to get yourself motivated to get there versus what the reality might be, i.e.

320

you're unexpected.

321

That's the sweet spot.

322

Now that is, I don't know, it's just like something magical.

323

can't do that without having to practice it a few times.

324

I think that's where the self-trust and learning to be okay with

325

not getting what you want maybe.

326

oh

327

And you know, you asked me where that procrastination came from, putting it out there, it

probably comes from that.

328

That kind of, yeah, that almost preempting that kind of guilt and shame, or what if this

doesn't work out?

329

And it's like, just have, I think you just reached that point and perhaps I just had

reached a point where I felt okay with it, you whatever scenario would happen, however it

330

would unfold.

331

And I do feel like it does feel really different at this point now in my business to not

write something off as a fate.

332

in a really binary way if it's like if it didn't work out exactly how I would have wanted

it to if it wasn't exactly you know the version of success or the best version that I

333

would have wanted and to instead see actually what you know how much how much you've

learned from it and the stuff that you just wouldn't know unless you put it out there and

334

done the thing quite frankly

335

I mean, you said there, you now know what people's objections are.

336

You now know that actually front loading with loads and loads of structure and action

might be a turn off to the very audience that you want to get through the door.

337

And, and you know, that that's something that you could sit and do market research, but

you might not necessarily get that until you go out to launch it.

338

yeah.

339

So my plan now is to do a probably late spring, early summer version of Good Company that

is more of, and do know what?

340

I came up with the name for it this morning, which I'm very excited about, but I'm not

gonna share just yet because I just wanna do a little bit more thinking around it.

341

I know, I know.

342

I'll do a big reveal soon.

343

But I came up with the name and I was like, like with Good Company, was like, ooh, because

I wanted it to be a kind of kind of sprint version of it or like.

344

Yeah.

345

like the first step of what I was gonna do in good company with the whole group.

346

So that it feels like something that is really manageable and feasible and that they can

actually do.

347

So that's why I'm kind of going with it.

348

And then the other thing that I've done, which was I think, as I was saying earlier,

349

that bigger mission in mind has helped me to come out of kind of like falling into too

much.

350

I had a bit of a lull, had a bit of a quiet period after I had my big launch but then I

went straight into promoting an idea to run a free online co-working session on a monthly

351

basis to support women to do business development activities because I talked to you about

352

wanting to cement myself as somebody who is the person to go to for B2B support, the

person to go to for business development support.

353

And I thought, okay, I just want to showcase to people that this is something I can help

with.

354

It's called Revenue Room.

355

You get a little briefing from me at the top of the session on a revenue generating

business development activity that you can do.

356

but just in a quick five minutes at the top and then we're going to do a co-working

session for 45 minutes and then come back together and kind of celebrate our wins and I'm

357

hoping there'll be some real tangible stuff that people can celebrate together at the end

of it.

358

I don't think anyone's doing that at the moment.

359

That is so different because you get co-working, is come and do creative working, do

creative writing, do that.

360

I'm seeing a lot of accountability sessions just for life admin and that seems really

interesting.

361

But to come and do something, which is the nuts and bolts of here's how you make money in

your business.

362

And it kind of came out of all that, everything that I was hearing from people about

saying, just, you know, I need a bit of accountability to do this.

363

I need a bit of space to it, need to commit to doing this.

364

And I had actually trialled a version of it, in a very unstructured way, where people came

with their own tasks and things.

365

So this is kind of a twist on that,

366

could be really supportive for neurodivergent women, particularly if your main target is

women, business owners, and that whole kind of body doubling is really, really helpful, I

367

know, for ADHD.

368

I was having a chat with somebody about that and that was kind of, yeah, part of what I

was thinking would be so useful was that they were talking about how body doubling is

369

really helpful for them.

370

when I did a bit of research into kind of like the positive impact of body doubling and

having accountability kind of circle around you and all that stuff.

371

And it's just all the statistics there to back it up in terms of the evidence and the

research.

372

that she's there that shows that you're way more likely to achieve if you're in that

environment.

373

And this time last year, actually, I think that's when I had the two researchers from

America on the podcast talking about body doubling.

374

So I've got an episode on that, but they're literally researching it.

375

But they were researching it with that digital lens and why body doubling through the

online digital presence works so well for our kind of modern times.

376

So yeah.

377

It's definitely scientifically being proven to be very good.

378

So all good.

379

Your expertise is doing these types of things, which is holding space and you've got that

coaching background, but the expertise is knowing your.

380

your stuff when it comes to corpse and business development and that kind of stuff.

381

So it really helps to build you up as this kind of person who's the go-to.

382

I would then know, Lucy's the person who can help with business development, you know.

383

Yeah, and there's something to kind of refer people to and all of that.

384

And I realised it was kind of missing in my business because I don't have a community

space at the moment.

385

know, when I first started my business years ago, I ran a free Facebook group unless

they've really, you know, got a great kind of lively engaged community, they're a very

386

difficult thing to kind of, to host and to kind of keep active these days.

387

And also I just had stopped going on Facebook and stopped going to groups apart from a

couple

388

very specific ones that I really am enjoying being in.

389

So it just wasn't how I was working either.

390

And so this feels like a nice way to like reintroduce that space where it's kind of like,

I'm the host, I'm leading the space, but it's, you know, I'm not

391

teaching, I'm not training, it's not, m you know, it's just kind of like sharing that kind

of inspiration and ideas at the start.

392

that idea that you're going back and trawling through what has worked well for me before.

393

That's tried and tested stuff and that's really motivational because it gives us that good

feeling and it supports our self esteem, all of those wonderful things.

394

I've got two people then on the call who are good with communities and obviously my

research area is all about online communities so I'm very interested in this.

395

intended to set up a community, but I've now got a very small community.

396

And I think a bit like you Lucy, I haven't done the one-to-one stuff in it, but I think

when April will be the next intake, what I'm looking at with my purposing of it is to

397

think how I tie it into the one-to-one work, because actually that's what I prefer.

398

the one, I like having the space and putting the prompts in and stuff, but I don't

necessarily want to be the

399

teacher in that space so I quite like the one-to-one stuff so that's quite interesting but

what can we learn from you Emma about community and spaces because you had that three

400

months with what can we take from you that is wise and sage.

401

Gosh, no preference.

402

one of the things that I kind of underestimated was that it would need a lot more kind of

hand holding to kind of get people to engage.

403

I think we're all so busy.

404

And, particularly that mine was sort of targeting women in this midlife collision phase,

where we are literally like, holding up the sky doing everything for everybody else

405

having the kind of capacity to come and engage with all of the kind of the content on

there would be quite limited.

406

So finding a way to kind of get people to engage so that you can build up these sort of

conversations.

407

Once people get into the habit of doing it, then I think that kind of can be

self-sustaining to a certain extent, but getting people.

408

also to feel, I guess, sort of safe to engage when some of that content might be a little

bit kind of spiky as well.

409

And people who didn't know each other before needed kind of a lot more kind of caretaking,

I suppose.

410

The other thing it's another platform to kind of...

411

get into and learn how to use.

412

I think again, sort of underestimated that sort of what, how much of a block that would

be.

413

that can be a little bit kind of, I don't know.

414

I don't feel familiar and safe here.

415

I don't want to give people another WhatsApp group to join because frankly, mine are like

already ridiculous.

416

It is interesting.

417

know obviously my original research, the idea of psych safety in these spaces is really

cool.

418

I'm in the middle of data collection for my doctoral research.

419

But there is definitely something about space I don't think in every community, everybody

needs to be fully engaged in that very active way all the time.

420

in a cyber psychology way, we call it active passive and, whatever and lurking.

421

uh

422

Lurking is a vicarious way of getting your psychological support and psychological safety,

423

And perhaps there is a sweet spot.

424

Definitely.

425

Hi, it's Leila.

426

Just to say at this point, Emma left the recording because she got another meeting to head

off to.

427

thank you so much for sharing your journey with us.

428

You have to come back on the podcast to talk about your book first Bye Emma.

429

Bye-bye, Lucy.

430

Bye, Lola.

431

We want the gossip.

432

Yeah.

433

And interesting because you've called yours the revenue room.

434

I got feedback from my participants in my space.

435

I said, you know, I called it a sprint, is that the right word?

436

And that was really helpful.

437

I've come up with the reflection room.

438

that word room does kind of give that a feel of like a space to gather and do something,

doesn't it?

439

And it's kind of, it's like room to do the thing, like space to do a practical space to do

things, there's kind of different meanings to it at a different level.

440

So yeah, I like that name.

441

My original research, there was a quote from one of the participants who said, you know,

it's like a digital room and, you know, it feels quite comfy and it's almost like you can

442

feel there are corners where you can sit if you want to just sit from the outskirts.

443

And then people would talk about, you know, the central part of the room being the visible

bit and, you know, where people feel safe to hang out.

444

I...

445

obviously psychology.

446

I'm curious about all the metaphors that people use for online spaces, but we definitely

associate our online spaces not as just social media or social platforms.

447

We think of them as part of our infrastructure and our home and extended workspaces,

448

Yeah, yeah, because I'm on a couple of networks that are on Circle and on Slack.

449

And so actually I've got quite comfortable with both those spaces.

450

And when I think of Circle, when I think of Slack now, I do always think of them as a

place to kind of go and to hang out, and not just a notice board, but a place to like

451

connect with people and like an actual structural place in my life.

452

Yeah, so

453

it's just got me thinking now as well.

454

I mean don't almost want to like run before I can walk and I'll see how it goes running

the first few sessions but if there is scope to then create a space where the people

455

who've been coming to the revenue room can gather.

456

I mean it has occurred to me before that I've never done anything or I don't do anything

at the moment.

457

close friends list on Instagram which is a way and I love showing up on Instagram and

sharing on stories and your close friends list is a way of doing that for people who are

458

interested in particular topics and ideas so I wonder if...

459

you not?

460

yeah and you can only have one I think like one close friends list yeah I mean I think

there's other tools you can now have on Instagram that are around broadcast groups yeah

461

And that's useful, isn't it?

462

As a reminder that we talk about how we have this context collapse in social spaces, but

being able to create our own boundaries and draw those kind of spaces is a way to reduce

463

the effect of the context collapse and feeling overly visible.

464

And I think people use kind of em different groups and things on Instagram for that as

well now, don't they?

465

But yeah.

466

I think it's really curious.

467

I really wanted to pair you and Emma together when I spoke to you both individually.

468

And the whole reason for that is that you were both doing trial and testing.

469

And it's really curious then to hear back.

470

And I can relate to everything so much because I'm going through this whole process of

learning about how to launch stuff and...

471

Hmm.

472

know, selling in different ways.

473

And it is stuff that really pushes you out of your comfort zone.

474

And it does feel really exposing.

475

But it's also, don't know, I found it quite exhilarating in a way.

476

It's almost made it easier to fail.

477

As in, once you've done it once, you think, oh, I can do it again now.

478

That's fine.

479

I know how it feels when I get to the end of it and things aren't.

480

as I expected, but it's not the end of the world.

481

So, you know, I think that that makes it easier to to kind of move on.

482

Yeah.

483

kind of lived with the discomfort once and it was fine.

484

It didn't kill you.

485

So you realised you're okay and you can do it again.

486

Yeah, absolutely.

487

Yeah, and it's like pushing your comfort zone, isn't it?

488

And that's it, can sit in your comfort zone, it just stays bigger then.

489

I think it was that episode with Bav and the others where I think I titled it Nothing Bad

Happened, you know, as a result of going for this goal.

490

So I think that's a lovely place to kind of leave our whole season on goal setting, which

is, you know,

491

Whether you set yourself the biggest or the smallest goal, the most ambitious, the most

fearful goal, by going for the goal, you don't know what you're going to end up with.

492

It will never go to plan.

493

That's not a bad thing.

494

I think you're going to learn more than you think you will on a goal journey.

495

think most of the guests have really shown that, but it's well worth it.

496

I think it's energizing, isn't it, when we can push ourselves.

497

Yeah, and there's so many good things that come out of something that you don't expect and

that you, know, ideas and kind of assets and inspiration and things that hit that you only

498

know through going through the process of like pushing yourself to reach that goal,

definitely.

499

It's been an absolute pleasure to have you on the podcast.

500

Thank you for coming back.

501

I will catch up with you later in the

502

Thank you.

503

You've been listening to the Goal Series on the Psychologically Speaking podcast.

504

The next season starts next week.

505

I've got four wonderful life stories lined up for you where women are talking about their

experiences of curveballs and business ventures.