Welcome back to Chats with Jason, the show where we explore the stories, the strategies and hearts behind extraordinary leadership.

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Jason S. Bradshaw: Today I'm absolutely thrilled because we're not talking about leadership theories or culture frameworks. We're talking about the heartbeat of leadership.

She's an award-winning leader, a coach, a mentor, and [00:01:00] an emotional optimist, and the author of Be Yourself At Work. Claude Silver is with us and her message could it be more needed in the world right now.

So let's dive in to authentic presence, emotional bravery, and what it really means to lead from the heart.

Claude, welcome to the show.

Claude Silver: Jason, great to be here. Thanks so much for having me.

Jason S. Bradshaw: I appreciate it.

And Claude your personal journey is filled with incredible turning points from Outward Bound to rebuilding trust in yourself to stepping into leadership in your forties. What's the moment that truly shaped the leader you are right now?

And so it's interesting. I waited tables. I bartended. I catered. I did a lot in the service industry. I worked in a grocery store, all of those things. And if you think about it, that is all about being of joyful service, which is actually my North Star. Being of joyful service.

So Outward Bound was very pivotal. And then everything I did after Outward Bound as jobs before I went into the corporate world really gave me more and more of that understanding of... how do you wanna make someone feel? You're serving food. You're giving them a drink. You're bagging groceries. How do you want them to experience this moment? And that was really powerful for me.

So those two big moments for me were really shaped the leader I am today. And then of course, my Nana, who I speak about in the book. My Nana, my Heart. She would leave every interaction she had... buying groceries, buying flowers, going to the bank, and she would literally say to the cashier, would you do me a favor and have a peaceful day? And I thought, wow, here's this [00:04:00] 95-year-old woman, 98-year-old woman. She doesn't have to do that, but she did. And that made all the difference. How we make someone feel to me is the end all, be all.

Jason S. Bradshaw: So I was just think thinking how beautiful that is. It resonates with me because I learned so much from my grandmother as well. And it's amazing to think how they show up despite living in some of the most challenging times in recent. I say recent, in the last a hundred odd years.

In your work you talk about say emotional bravery and that the most powerful part of emotional intelligence is emotional bravery.

What does that look like in real moments of feedback? In conflict and uncertainty?

Claude Silver: Yes. That's really the question because it actually is used in those moments of adversity, feedback, uncertainty. Where am I? Where do I stand?

Jason S. Bradshaw: What's one thing that can help someone step into that bravery? I absolutely agree that it's a an absolute powerful step to follow up on that feedback that perhaps hurt or cut hard. But what's one step they can take so that they can actually build up that confidence, that bravery to take that step?

Otherwise, your feeling feelings that don't really live anywhere. But most of our feelings are rooted somewhere deep inside of us. When I was three, when I was seven, when I was 20. And so to understand why you feel a certain way, where it's coming from, that is 80% of the challenge. And that's not easy. 'Cause you have to do some work on that. You have to figure out... gosh, why does it affect me so much when someone interrupts me? Huh, that happened at my dinner table when I grew up. Why does it affect me so much when someone raises their voice? Those types of things. And so once you have that self-awareness and you know where it comes from and where it lives, then you have the choice to show up as a victim and [00:08:00] small or large, and take up space because you own it. The emotion doesn't own you. You own yourself and that's what you need to do. Whether or not it's bad feedback or whether or not someone cuts you off on the freeway, you know whether or not you just have a bad first date. You have every single right to advocate for yourself, especially if you're coming from a place of knowledge, self knowledge, and also a place of good intent, positive intent.

Jason S. Bradshaw: I think that makes the difference in the space in which you're coming from, and if it's from a positive place, then it's likely to lead to a positive movement forward,

Claude Silver: Yes.

Jason S. Bradshaw: Whatever that might look like in the situation.

At the top of the show, I introduced you as the world's first Chief Heart Officer. For someone hearing that title for the first time, what do you actually do in the role?

So I had to find people to scale it, and then eventually I built a team and, I had never done HR before. I built a team, we call them people and experience, like people and experience team. And so I could rely on them as well to be, HR business partners, as you would call them most likely.

I'm looking for patterns as I listen to people. Doing a lot of coaching. Trying to figure out what their imposter syndrome is so that they can then take authority over that. I'm meeting with teams really trying to figure out like, how is the team gelling? Are they not gelling? Is there fighting? Where's that coming from? Global strategies. I oversee everything that has to do with people. So whether or not it's recruiting or benefits or culture or learning and development everything that you could imagine. And so I have my finger on the pulse of, what's going on in Singapore tomorrow? Okay. I know that they're gonna be doing this training. I know to Slack them before I go to sleep in the night when I'm in New York, and give them some good vibes for tomorrow. Those types of things.

So Gary would say, I set the emotional framework for the company. And I would say yes, that is very true. And I'm also the emotional barometer. Being an empath and intuitive, it allows me to have one conversation with someone and understand the vibe, and understand the atmosphere or the environment in which they're around. So I do a lot of listening.

Claude Silver: Yes.

Jason S. Bradshaw: The other perhaps... challenge or gift? Depending on which lens you look through. The founder, the head of the company, Gary Vaynerchuk, is no shrinking violet. He's everywhere and anywhere, and is somewhat opinionated, you could say. And he has achieved a lot. I'm not taking any of that away from him. How does that play out day to day in the workspace where, you've got all these, like you said, you're the emotional barometer of the organization. How do you keep everything at the right level?

Claude Silver: It's not just me. Every single person that is in the agency, in the four walls is responsible for the culture, not just Claude. And together we're all cultivating that culture day in and day out. And I need everyone take part in it because we are the microcosm of the macrocosm.

And so all day long I'm listening not only to people and dissecting patterns, if you will, but I'm also listening for the chatter on the floor. I'm watching people get up and collaborate together. I'm really, in literal times, I'm watching who's sitting in a room like this or who's sitting, walking into a room like this, right? Because the experience that we are giving people is noticed by everyone. Whether or not you're a leader, or not. And so in terms of being the barometer, those are things that I look at, all day long. I just notice little things. This is ridiculous, but who puts their dishes in the dishwasher or who just leaves them for someone else to clean up? Simple things like that. Who pushes in their chairs or who just leaves them out in the middle of the aisle way there?

So i'm always trying to figure out not only what's happening behind the scenes, and with the people, but what's happening on the floor when they're talking to their clients or trying to pitch an idea and dealing with, working 17-18 hours a day for the last week.

It brings me to the question around what do you think the biggest myth leaders believe about people first cultures, and what's the truth that actually drives the performance?

Claude Silver: I think the myth is that culture is soft. I think myth is that anyone that has high EQ doesn't have high IQ. The myth is that why do we need, why do we need you? Like you're not a driver. You're not a...you're not a salesperson. You're not hitting numbers. That's a myth. Because everything I do has a way of feeding the bottom line and the top line. I believe everything everyone does or else we wouldn't have those roles, right?

Everyone wants speed. Everyone wants to be faster and faster. Now, yes, AI can do a lot of that, but you still need the human being who's gonna create and program it and then go sell it to a client.

Jason S. Bradshaw: And the human to put the heart into it,

Claude Silver: Oh yeah.

But I would like people to feel like they can show more of themselves, the real selves in the workplace. And they don't have to hide. They don't need to protect themselves, and they don't need to shrink. Because shrinking does nothing other than reduce your ability for progress.

Jason S. Bradshaw: Couldn't agree more.

So in your book, Be Yourself At Work, you're introducing emotional optimism, emotional bravery, and emotional efficiency. Which pillar tends to transform leaders the fastest and why do you think that is?

And so it's having that ability to see, okay, it might be dark right now, but it's not gonna be dark forever. I'm not alone. Having the agency to then find that bravery inside of you and say, you know what, boss, I disagree with two of those points. Can we sit down and chat about it? But I do think the [00:20:00] ability to see possibility as an entrepreneur will, is really where leaders need to hang their hat on.

And then of course, they do need to take action. I want them to be able to see what's in front of them, and see themselves as, I can do this. I can do this with help. You can do this. I'm gonna be here for you. That type of stuff.

Jason S. Bradshaw: Yeah. I appreciate the, what opens up when you consider what's possible versus, what's happened and why, taking that negative lens.

Jason S. Bradshaw: Oh, I love that. Makes me want to go and do another improv class. But what great framing there.

How do we create a sense of belonging and connection , in these organizations now that, aren't all housed in one office, that everyone goes to nine to five?

Claude Silver: Yeah, that's the biggest question for all of us and everyone's experiencing whether or not it's burnout or they're getting very crispy. It's just the nature of the speed in which our world goes now.

It's this. And being always on with our phones.

And that's the piece with leaders, that we cannot expect people to be vulnerable if we are not vulnerable with them. The Younger generations are way too smart right now, and Gen Alpha and Gen Z, they are the ones that are saying, listen, I don't want your burnout culture. I don't care about your speed. I wanna be respected. I don't wanna do work that isn't meaningful in this world. If I can get that here and not burn out, then you have my... here you go. Let's shake on that. You're hired and great.

Jason S. Bradshaw: Not only scary, but they lead to poor outcomes.

Claude Silver: Poor outcomes. Anxiety up the wazoo.

Jason S. Bradshaw: Yeah.

Jason S. Bradshaw: Yeah, and it starts that ball rolling down the hill collecting moss. You need to nip it in the bud. I think what we're seeing now, more so, and I'd love your take on this, as our workforce has become more diverse in every sense of that word, generationally ethnically, socioeconomic backgrounds, locations, et cetera, the key for transparent, timely communication is paramount. It is a driving force behind the culture, even of the business.

So we need to give each other some kind of grace that how you open your laptop at 9:00 AM and when it's 9:00 PM in Singapore, it's gonna be very different. You've already worked an entire day. It's dark out. You're exhausted. I'm just having my coffee, right? You have to be mindful of these things. And I don't think it's difficult. You just have to put it here in your head, in your heart. Here's a human being who's 15 hours away from me right now, Jason. You're starting your day [00:27:00] and I'm ending my day. Very different realities.

Jason S. Bradshaw: Yeah. So if a CEO, or a leader has been listening along with us today and wants to start bridging the gap between operations and humanity. What's one operational decision that they should rethink through the lens of heart-led leadership?

Claude Silver: Yeah, I'm really glad that you asked that because things can be overly operational and then you just lose all human touch. So, what I would say is rather than rolling out that next process or that next dashboard, bring people together and talk about it. Talk. Don't even show it. Talk about it. This is what we're doing.

Jason S. Bradshaw: Yeah.

Claude Silver: And that's what we need to do more of. We need to basically show our stripes, just like we're asking everyone else to show their spots and stripes and whatever, right? Otherwise, people are going to continue to be in fear, continue to shrink, and then you will not have any kind of retaining of top talent.

Jason S. Bradshaw: Yeah.

Claude Silver: They're gonna bounce, and then you're gonna have to spend money to hire.

Jason S. Bradshaw: Makes perfect sense to me.

So it's been an absolute pleasure, Claude, to be with you today as we come to close out the time together.

Claude Silver: Yeah, what I would say is as leaders, we are very important in putting our fingerprint and our heart print on this culture. People are looking at us all day long, and so we actually are big parts of the culture.

What is it like to work with me? What is the experience I'm giving people? Ask yourself that. How do you know? How do you know? Because you might not realize that you walk into every meeting with your phone, in your eyes, in your hands.

What is the experience? How do I show up? Is there any possible way I can show up a little bit brighter tomorrow?

Very early in my leadership career, I was working in an open office environment and my team was split across multiple rows of desks and I would walk in and, I'd say, hi team. Hi team. And then the closer I got to my desk, it would be... hi Mary, hi Bob... hi John, using their individual names. And I had a team member one of the leaders that reported to me who I, to use your language, showed emotional bravery and came up to me and said, in a safe space, and said, do you realize what you're doing every day when you get to work?

If you wanna learn more about Claude's work and her latest book, of course there's going to be links to that in the show notes. I can't recommend following Claude's work strongly enough. It's fantastic.

Claude, it's been great having you on the show.

Claude Silver: Me too, Jason, and thank you for sharing that story. That's really impactful. I appreciate it.

Jason S. Bradshaw: Appreciate you.

I'm Jason S. Bradshaw, and this is Chats with Jason. See you next time.

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