Jonathan Goldhill: Disruptive Successor

Jason S. Bradshaw: What if the very business your parents built is the reason you feel like you'll never live up to them? Most next gen leaders in family companies feel trapped, expected to take over, keep everyone happy, and somehow grow the business without burning bridges at home. But there is a proven way to take the reigns, earn respect, and build your own legacy without losing the family along the way.

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Jason S. Bradshaw: My guest today, Jonathan Goldhill, has coached over a thousand family business successes to do exactly that. He's the author of Disruptive Successor and host of the Disruptive Successor show. So if you've ever felt torn between honoring the past and leading the future, stay tuned. You are about to discover how to become the kind of leader your family, and importantly, your business actually needs.

Jonathan, welcome to the show.

Jonathan Goldhill : Thanks for having me on the show tonight, Jason. Looking forward to talk about the topic.

Jason S. Bradshaw: Yeah, really appreciate it. Can't wait to dive into it.

Now, Jonathan, let's take us back. What did it feel like when your family business closed and how did that moment ignite this mission you're on today?

Jonathan Goldhill : So, you know, it, evolved over a long period of time. And one thing about family businesses, Jason, is that, things can move pretty slowly. These are not the hypergrowth tech, AI, software type companies. These are more oftentimes real estate than they become real estate family holding businesses.

Now this, by the way, is fairly unheard of, at least in modern day, that they would have lifetime employment contracts. But I used to go visit their offices and they had showroom, which was in New York City in the garment fashion District of New York, and you would see men's suits and all those types of things. But it seemed like my grandfather was very involved more in philanthropy, doing some sales, going out to lunches, having a two or three martini lunch or something. So by the time I was 20. And really might have had an opportunity to go into the family business, that family business was long since sold, but my grandfather and his brothers were continuing to go to [00:03:00] work, although my grandfather was having a series of strokes at that point in time, and that made him really unable to communicate very well. So what I experienced... my client the other day said, you know, John, the reason why we hired you as a family business is because not only did you like, have family business experience and you had all this knowledge from consulting founders and owners and businesses over many years, but you had family business FOMO. I said, Robert, what do you mean by family business FoMO? I know FOMO is an acronym that stands for Fear of Missing Out. But he said like you wanted to be part of that family business, but it wasn't like available to you as an opportunity. And so because of that, I thought, he's gonna care [00:04:00] a lot more about our family business. And Jason, that really struck me. I've never heard this kind of feedback.

And it wasn't until I went back to school, specifically entrepreneurship program, to get an MBA after I had an art and clothing business. Following very much in my grandfather's footsteps. He was an artist and a clothing executive. After that business failed due to a poor partnership, I went and got an entrepreneur, MBA and started consulting small and family owned businesses.

That's what I wrote my book around. It was geared towards that. Second gen basically trying to really take the vision of the business and make it much larger. And so what I teach in my book is strategies to 2 to 10x, more like 10 x your business.

Jonathan Goldhill : Well, there's a certain, I want to use the French phrase je ne sais quoi, but there's a certain communication that happens in families at the kitchen table, at the dining room table that kind of teaches the young children at the table that this is what we do. This is how we do it. This is the business that is gonna be yours someday. And those conversations happen at young ages. Now Now we know that most times the people that come into family businesses, they're already adults. And if the family business is really established, like multi-generational, then they probably have some ethos around, look, you should go out. [00:07:00] Go get a good corporate job or go work in industry or go do something else for a few years, learn on someone else's dime and then come into our business and maybe you're going to even work for a competitive type of a business or, but just go get some good experience. So I think that's the hidden secret is that they don't really talk about the importance of the business as part of like the whole economic unit of this family and that you are part of that unit and no pressure, we would love to have you be in that business, but should you choose to do something else, then that's fine. So the family that don't have those types of conversations and they send their kids off to college and they say, you know, maybe they'll come into the family business, but I don't expect it, they probably are thinking about other types of things that look less stressful, easier, maybe better [00:08:00] lifestyle, and they don't come into the family business until maybe they realize this is kind of a dead end and the family business, what a platform. My family is giving me a, you know, there's a 5 or 10 or a $50 million company here. I could really do something here. I could learn. I could grow. I could make a great living. So I think that answered your question.

Jason S. Bradshaw: Yeah, it makes a lot of sense. So we're gonna shift gears just a little bit. You are sitting with a 9-year-old at lunch and in their backpack there's a sandwich, a toy, and a math workbook using only what's in the bag, the lunch, the sandwich, the toy in the maths workbook.

How would you explain what you do for family businesses?

Jonathan Goldhill : Me as a coach.

Jason S. Bradshaw: Yeah,

Jonathan Goldhill : Correct. Okay. Yeah. Not as a family business owner, but as a coach.

Jason S. Bradshaw: Yeah.

Jonathan Goldhill : So, wow. A sandwich, a toy and the backpack.

Jason S. Bradshaw: Yeah.

The toy is a reminder that you need to take time out to have fun. You need to enjoy what life can bring you. It shouldn't, just be all work. There should be fun and games, and the toy represents playing games, and even maybe collecting a few other toys in the process. Whatever those things are, older [00:10:00] adult, they like motorcycles or young adults like motorcycles or snowboards or four wheelers, quads.

The sandwich. The sandwich represents the sustenance that you'll need to carry you through every single day, and know that you always have what you need to get through the problems that show up... that you're going to solve.

Jason S. Bradshaw: Yeah. Great. Fantastic. I think that helps us.

Jonathan Goldhill : Fun question.

Jason S. Bradshaw: Yeah, it always mixes things up a little bit.

Thinking of Disruptive Successor. What does that look like in practice? How does someone lead differently without alienating the generations before them?

And then there are tools, if we're a multi-generational business, to manage the [00:12:00] governance of this business. If we have many family members from, cousins and some are involved, some not involved. So there are great tools that we can use and we have to adopt things that are not things that you used to use. AI. The last decade it was social media. It was web. It was the internet. It was technology type tools that would allow you to do pricing and bidding and estimating and quoting and customer service. And I mean, now there's just so much available to us, Jason, with AI and technology and digital, that mostly what I was talking about in my book was the kind of disruption that comes from bringing in new tools, new systems, new processes, not just, Hey, dad's gonna make the decision when he goes, you know, and he's gonna come back and this is the way it's gonna be. It's more, we're gonna build some consensus. We're gonna have a meeting, set of meetings and a [00:13:00] rhythm around those meetings, and we're gonna use technology a lot more than you've ever even conceived of using it.

So those were some of the ideas in the disruption.

Jason S. Bradshaw: Makes sense. Most next gen leaders, I think, carry guilt for doing things their own way. What emotional shift have you seen them needing to take that lets 'em step into the confidence that they need to be the new leader?

Jason S. Bradshaw: So in your 7Ps Playbook, which P should every leader, family, or not master first?

So I began my 7Ps with purpose. That was at the top of the list. I think you need to know your why and what it is that you're doing, why you're doing it, because that's ultimately what gets you and the people that work for you up out of bed every day excited about what we're doing here. Because, you know, think of a nonprofit. A nonprofit oftentimes has a strong mission. Think of a church or any kind of a religious organization. It's very mission driven. So I think entrepreneurs and business owners need to be mission driven. But having said that, Jason, sometimes they come to the purpose, the why are we doing this last? They then focus on something more like priorities. What are our priorities? What do we need to get done in the next 90 days? What's the most important thing and how are we [00:17:00] gonna measure that? So, it's like a Rubik's cube, I guess 'cause I love processes also because sometimes it's just so clear that things are breaking down in a business because they don't have good standard operating practices. They need to put processes into place and I see this when I dig into a company like one I've recently been digging into and realizing that they've not been reporting all their taxes and sales taxes and they miscommunicated about employee classification. Is this person exempt from overtime or not? Are they salaried? And it's created a whole lot of people problems. And then for some companies that are running basically a pretty healthy company, I'd say, make sure you got your people right. To quote Patrick Lencioni from his book, The Five Dysfunctions of the Team... it's not finance. It's not strategy. [00:18:00] It's not the products. It's the people that builds your absolute competitive advantage.

So, I know I didn't give you the single right answer, but it's a mix. It's all, it's all of them. Yeah. And take it I do, I put people through a scorecard of the 7Ps. And then we figure out what are the things we need to prioritize? What's first? What's second? What's third? We can't do 'em all at the same time.

Jason S. Bradshaw: Yeah, I think that makes a lot of sense. And if it was as simple as just choosing one, I think everyone would be doing that right now. But I do like that you started with purpose and people understanding their why, because I think from that it can lead into how we do processes, how we hire, how we treat our people.

You've worked with companies scaling from 5 million to 50 million plus, what can modern founders or executives learn from a family business about scaling without losing their soul?

Jonathan Goldhill : That's a great question. So what's different about family businesses from non-family businesses is that because they're all blood related and because they have so much history with each other, the soul is there in the family business.

So, founders, entrepreneurs, senior managers, executives at corporations, think about that the people that you work with are so important. Building the right team, having the right people and having them in the right seats and having them do the right things and then helping them do those right things like faster, better, smarter.

Take some time to get to know the people that work for you. Take some time to understand what makes them tick. What are their goals? What's their dream? Because if you have a vision of where you want to take your department or your company, they'll buy into your vision once you buy into their vision.

So loyalty.

Jason S. Bradshaw: Makes you you think back and just remember how important it is not to lose the human factor in business and that whether you are one of many in a corporate machine or whether you're in that family business, ultimately it comes down to humans. Starting at that very simple place of connection and being together.

Jonathan Goldhill : So, great questions you asked by the way. This one, the first thing that comes to my mind is that the next generation has got to have hunger. There's an old adage in family businesses, and it's spoken very confidently or very frequently amongst wealth managers, that it takes three generations to go from shirt sleeves to shirt sleeves, meaning, that the first generation works really hard. They roll up their shirt sleeves. They work really hard, and they're working all the time. And the second generation starts to really enjoy the benefits of the first generations working so hard that they want not to work so many hours. They know they need to work hard. They wanna provide for their [00:23:00] children and make sure their children are really well taken care of. And so by the time that third generation comes along, they've been so well taken care of that they almost seem like they're the entitled generation, and then they don't really wanna work that hard because everything was kind of given to them. And they're the generation of credit cards and just buy things on credit. And so the thing that you have to do is you've gotta keep hunger in your kids, and in your grandkids. You've gotta make them learn that character counts and comes from the hard things that we have to do in life. It doesn't mean that you have to make it all hard for them, and it's not good enough to just to allow them to appreciate what they've been given. So they're not spoiled. I mean, that's significant by the way. But you've gotta leave them and you've [00:24:00] gotta foster some hunger. The business that I see that don't make it to the next generation or kind of fail in the next generation, there wasn't the hunger, there wasn't the drive. They were full of entitlement.

entitlement

Jason S. Bradshaw: Makes a lot of sense. Just reminding everyone listening along with us today that Jonathan Goldhill's book, Disruptive Successor is available everywhere great books are sold, and there is a link in the description so you can pick up your very own copy.

Jonathan, as we come to the top of the show, we're into the rapid fire round where I have just three quick questions for you.

So let's kick off with the first one. One word that defines a healthy family business?

Jonathan Goldhill : Growth.

Jason S. Bradshaw: One system every business should install this year?

Jonathan Goldhill : A business operating system.

Jason S. Bradshaw: And one lesson you wish your grandfather could see you teaching today?

Jason S. Bradshaw: Hey, that's beautiful.

Jonathan Goldhill : Love. Passion.

Jason S. Bradshaw: Fantastic. Jonathan, is there anything that you'd like to leave our audience with today?

Jonathan Goldhill : I love having the opportunity to have a conversation about these types of topics. They really interest me.

Jason S. Bradshaw: Couldn't agree more. So whether your last name is on the building or not, we all inherit something. Old habits, old expectations, old ways of leading. But the true successor isn't the one who repeats the past. It's the one who dares to reimagine it.

And when we do that, when we transform the experience, we transform the business and the world around us.

If you've found something in this episode that's hit a cord, be sure to share it. Give us a like and be sure to subscribe so you don't miss any future episodes.

I'm Jason S. Bradshaw, and this has been another episode of Chats with Jason.