Dr. Jose Antonio, co-founder and CEO of the International Society of Sports Nutrition, joins Paul Warloski and Paul Laursen to separate effective sports supplements from overhyped products. He explains why protein, creatine, beta-alanine, nitrates, and caffeine form his evidence-backed top five, while also making the case for sodium bicarbonate. The conversation covers practical dosing, protein requirements, creatine for endurance athletes and cognitive health, ineffective testosterone boosters, the placebo effect, probiotics, personalized supplementation, and race-day carbohydrate strategies. Throughout the episode, Antonio advocates a pragmatic approach: identify the athlete’s goal, assess the potential benefit and harm, use the available science, and pay attention to what works in the real world.

Key Takeaways

• Start with the athlete’s goal. A supplement recommendation is only meaningful when tied to a specific performance, recovery, health, or body-composition objective.
• Antonio’s top five are protein, creatine, beta-alanine, nitrates, and caffeine. Sodium bicarbonate earns an additional place because of its buffering and performance benefits.
• Caffeine works, but dosage matters. Antonio discusses an effective range of roughly 1–6 mg per kilogram, with approximately 3 mg/kg as a common starting point.
• Creatine is not just for bodybuilders. It may support recovery and performance in cycling, swimming, paddling, and other sports where body weight is supported.
• Five grams of creatine per day is generally sufficient for skeletal muscle. Higher doses may be needed to influence cognition, although the evidence is still developing.
• Distance runners may prefer a lower creatine dose. Antonio suggests that around 2 g per day could provide recovery benefits while limiting unwanted weight gain.
• Protein should remain high even on rest days. Recovery continues when athletes are not training, so protein intake should not drop dramatically.
• One gram of protein per pound of body weight is presented as a practical athletic baseline. Higher intake may provide benefits, but affordability and adherence are real constraints.
• Beetroot-derived nitrates are preferred over arginine. Citrulline may help, but its effective dosing can be inconvenient.
• Testosterone boosters are among the most overhyped supplements. Tongkat ali and turkesterone have not demonstrated meaningful improvements in lean mass or sustained testosterone elevation in healthy athletes.
• Belief can affect performance. Antonio describes a caffeine experiment in which participants performed according to the dose they thought they received—even though every dose was a placebo.
• Practice fueling strategies in training. Whether an athlete uses 30, 60, or 120 grams of carbohydrate per hour, race day should never be the first experiment.

• Dr. Jose Antonio
• Paul Warloski - Simple Endurance Coaching
• Marjaana Rakai | Nordic Performance Lab

there was a paper myself and my lab team published. We basically called it the top five supplements. oddly enough, one of them could cause harm, but you'll see the list. It's protein, although some people don't consider protein a supplement but I'm talking about supplemental protein in terms of whether it's whey protein, casein, or soy. creatin, third one beta-alanine, fourth one nitrates.

And then one that could actually cause potential harm, Paul, is caffeine.

Hello and welcome to the Athletes Compass Podcast, where we navigate training, fitness, and health for everyday athletes. If you're confused about supplements, you're not alone. The supplement industry is a 150 billion with a B market, and everyone has an opinion. But today we're sitting down with someone who actually does the science behind the supplements. Dr. Jose Antonio is the co-founder and CEO of the International Society of Sports Nutrition.

ISSN, the leading academic nonprofit dedicated to research and education in sports nutrition and supplementation. He's also professor of exercise and sport science at Nova Southeastern University, co-founder of the Society of for Sports Neuroscientists, and has published over 100 peer review papers and 16 books.

His research has shaped everything from creatine dosing protocols to protein recommendations for endurance athletes. He's been fighting for rigorous science in a space that's notoriously full of hype, bro science, and empty promises. So today we're going three rounds with Dr. Antonio with supplements that work for endurance athletes, supplements that are a waste of time, and supplements with promise, the ones that are worth watching. Thank you so much for joining us today, Jose. We appreciate your time.

Thanks for having me. I think this will be a fun, fun show. just as sort of I think what's interesting on for me on the personal side, I do a lot of endurance. I mean, most of my training is endurance sports, kind of a weird sport stand-up halving. However, my wife is actually, I would consider a world-class cyclist. she competes at the master's level. She we're all going, myself, my wife, and my two daughters, we're gonna go to Naseiko, Japan later.

No.

This year she's gonna compete in the UCI Grand Fondo World Championships. So so she is basically my case study for anything related to cycling. And she, you know, her specialty is time trials. So

Yeah.

As far as supplements that help, I mean, there's a lot we can talk about. And in fact, I focus on just things that help. I mean and there are others that, you know, the question I get oftentimes, not just from cyclists, but from athletes in general, is should I take this? That's how how how the question's often framed. And my first response is, Well, what's your goal? So now when I learn the goal, my general overriding philosophy for all of this stuff is as follows.

Is there a possible benefit? If the answer is yes, okay. Is there a possible harm? If the answer is no, then as long as there's a yes for benefit, a possible benefit, and a no for no harm, I see no reason why you should not take it. In fact, you should try it. And and I think I know you haven't asked the question yet, but I I'm trying to sort of put some background here. I think what a lot of scientists in this space, I think.

What holds them back so much is they're paralyzed by they need 50 more studies to determine whether or not they should give you advice. And my feeling has always been I don't need 50 more studies. What I need is a potential mechanism. Is there data that shows promise? And what happens when people in the real world use it? I try to combine all that and say, you know what? Okay, there's no studies in cyclists that do time trials. In fact, in fact, all of these supplements I recommend for her.

Not a single study in cyclists to do time trials, like none. So, am I gonna wait until there's a study on cyclists doing time trials? No. However, I have friends, I mean, not close friends, but distant friends in the science world who they're like, hey, there's no studies in cyclists. I mean, they did a study in runners, so it helps runners. I'm like, running, cycling, endurance sports, cardiac output. I mean, is it so different that it'll help a runner?

But not a cyclist. So that's sort of the background I come with. Granted, the science, I love science, science is cool, but I know you still have to look at what athletes do in the real world because oftentimes they will try things before scientists even study it. So so that's my story.

I love that.

I love that the last line, Jose, because that that really relates to to kind of the this debate that I'm sort of hearing in the high carb world. We've spoken about this before, where it's like we hear about these really high doses that endurance athletes are using, both runners in in the marathons and and cyclists in the in the in the tour, which is kinda going on right now. And

but the the data is kind of mixed on the whole thing, right? But it's like we we sort of fall we know we're and and then we have the low carb angle and like th there's there's a lot of context and but w but one of the one of the key arguments against some of the maybe the key the key like science data is the fact that well athletes are finding this benefit is some of these ones and they're they're just saying, look, this this helps me. So we have to look farther.

And just just to your point, yeah, we have to also use that as key evidence, and not just not just if the science maybe doesn't kind of support it. So love where you st where you've started off here.

Yeah, I mean

right. Yeah, I think there's a whole there's a whole crop of I would say new PhDs that are coming into this space who rather than going to academia or even doing research, they go straight to being a social media influencer. and I think they are the ones that are the most I need twelve more studies before I recommend it. I mean and

Mm.

And it's

Ha ha ha.

It might have been e even been legal in other sports. If an athlete came to you and said, I want to take anabolic steroids to help with recovery and maybe lean mass, what would you say based on the data in the 1970s? Well, you'd have to say it doesn't work and we have no data. That's what you'd have to say. And I would say, Screw the lack of data. Something's clearly happening and it clearly works. Otherwise, all of these people wouldn't be doing it. And as far as, you know.

Mm-hmm.

purported side effects or harmful effects. Well, those issues tend to be dose dependent. Now back in the 70s, I don't know if you followed bodybuilding. I used to actually do a lot of writing for bodybuilding magazines when I first got my PhD. But if you go back to the 70s, there was Lou Frigno, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Dave Draper, all these old-time bodybuilders, the doses they were using were quite low. I mean, lower than like local guys in South Florida take for a local show. So

Unless we have studies on the 5K time trial distance and cycling, I won't recommend it. And I'm thinking, well, that's that's kind of a parochial way of viewing human performance when human performance is one of those things where humans will just try whatever it takes to get better, even if it's shaving off one percent and and to the general public, like one percent, that's nothing. You and I know.

Yeah.

1% in a competitive sport is everything. It's like they're like 1%, that's nothing. No, 1% is everything. So I guess, we're sort of, I don't know if this is I'm maybe going a little off track, but I think there's an underlying philosophy where certain scientists view it as we need all of this data first, and others are tend to be a little bit more pragmatic.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, I I love that because Paul Paul interview you and you I mean your your C V is very, very long, right? And you sound very science based, but you've just kind of put forth your, you know, it's it's it's pragm pragmatic you know, recommendations that that should be put forth at the end of the day. And I think that's kind of what we're we're aligned on that philosophy as well. So Paul, what do you have what do you have to start this conversation? How how are we gonna how are we gonna take this? 'Cause you've you've kind of put a framework here forth.

Mm.

Yeah, let's let's get into it. So Jose, what are the what are supplements that work? What for sure is the list of of of supplements that for sure don't cause harm and do work?

Well, I I will reference there was a paper myself and my lab team published. We basically called it the top five supplements. oddly enough, one of them could cause harm, but you'll see the list. It's protein, although some people don't consider protein a supplement because you know you eat chicken, you eat beef, but I'm talking about supplemental protein in terms of whether it's whey protein, casein, or soy. creatin, second one beta third one beta-alanine, fourth one nitrates.

And then one that could actually cause potential harm, Paul, is caffeine. Now, out of all of those, caffeine probably has the most data. Maybe it's second to creatine. I creatine probably has more data than caffeine, but caffeine, you can certainly overdose on it. However, if you look, there's plenty of there's so much data on caffeine now that we know what the effective dose should be. It's roughly

Mm.

You know, maybe at the bottom end it's three milligrams per kg of body weight. Now I've seen data, I guess depends how sensitive you are to caffeine, where you could go as low as one or two milligrams per kg, and then as high as five or six milligrams per kg. So caffeine clearly helps. You can overdose on it, but I don't know any athletes. This is one of those few supplements where they're like, wow, if five milligrams per kg works, I think I'll take ten milligrams. Nobody does that with caffeine, thank God.

No, no,

you bounce off the ceiling.

Right, right. and again, this is sort of in general. These supplements help probably a wide variety of sports. I think the one that might be a little not controversial, but different for endurance athletes is creatine monohydrate or creatin. Now, what's interesting about creatine is that it really comes from the bodybuilding world and it the plenty of data on creatine that improves lean body mass, muscular strength, muscular power.

And it's gotten to the point in our world, in the sports science research world, we're frankly kind of bored with creatine. Here's why. There's like 600 studies on creatine. It's like, do we really need do we really need more studies? Now here, this is the irony of that. Creatine, and then the other one would be protein. There's more misinformation spread on creatine than any other supplement. It's you go online, Instagram, X, Facebook, or whatever.

Hmm.

There's this one physician actually on Instagram. It's kind of funny. She says creatine will kill you. And I'm like, wow, kill you, not even hurt you. It'll kill you. So I'm like, why do these people have such an anti-supplement view? I mean, that's a whole another show. But people will say, well, what's the data on creatine and endurance sports? I mean, it's not, it's not super strong because most of the data is in like strength power type stuff. However, however, we know creatine helps with recovery.

And if you're in a sport where body weight is supported, cycling, swimming, all the water sports, canoeing, kayaking, paddling, the extra lean body mass will probably help you. And then people say, what about distance running? And this is where it gets a little tricky, okay? Some distance runners say, I can't afford to gain one or two pounds, even if it's lean body mass, because I'll be slower. And in that case, I say, don't take it. I mean, I'm a pragmatist. I don't think you should take it if you think that one or two pounds will hurt you.

Now, would one and two pounds of lean body mass help a kayaker, a cyclist, a paddler? I think so. Is there data in kayakers, paddlers, or cyclists? Not really. I mean, there's there's general data in terms of performance, but not in specific races, et cetera, et cetera. so creatine, beta alanine is a great one. I don't know if you're familiar with the data on beta alanine. it serves as an intracellular buffer. So any sport where you

you produce a lot of acid, beta alanine will help. now I didn't mention this in the top five. In fact I'd put this sort of I you know if you want a top six I would add sodium bicarbonate to that. sodium bicarbonate acts as an extracellular buffer and it's making it's kind of weird it's making a comeback mainly because if you look at the sodium bicarbonate data going back decades, it clearly works. It helps I mean it helps any event where you produce a lot of acid.

Mm-hmm.

So why don't athletes take it? Well, because of the GI distress, the diarrhea, people get belly aches, et cetera, et cetera. Well, companies have figured out, okay, well, that's the problem with it. How do we fix the problem? Well, now they're coming out with these sort of gel-like systems where you have the sodium bicarbonate, you mix it with a gel. Honestly, it's kind of gross. I tried it once, but you know, if hey, if you're if you're trying to win a race, do it. I'm not trying to win a race. I'm happy if I finish in the top 50% of my rate of the races I do.

So, but now it minimizes GI distress, which is like that solves the problem of why people didn't take sodium bicarbonate. And clearly it helps. I mean, there's plenty of data on sodium bicarbonate. the other one would be nitrates. If you consume nitrates, you know, like let's say pre-race, you know, it helps with it helps with blood flow, O2 delivery. That that's another one that helps. And then dietary protein, this is a tricky one because some would say, well, technically not a supplement, it's a food.

And I think of it more as supplemental protein in the form of powder or ready to drinks. It's one way for you to meet your protein needs for the day without having to eat a meal. Because when I talk to male bodybuilders, they will tell you that it's impossible for them to eat as much protein as they need if all they could do is eat food. They said, I'd be eating all day. I'd rather just down a couple shakes, get 80 grams right away, and I'm good to go.

Now, endurance athletes might be a little different because they need they need the calories, just their their their energy expenditures is just so much greater than let's say, you know, bodybuilders or strength power athletes. and again, for them, getting the protein grams will help them recover. They're not necessarily trying to gain lean body mass, but it'll definitely help with recovery. And I and like for my wife, one of the big first things I had to do is like, you just gotta eat more protein. It's gonna help you recover. I mean, you're not trying to gain weight, obviously.

And she, you know, she swears by it. It definitely helps her recover, in addition to all the other supplements I recommended.

Nice.

Let's

let's go back to the nitrates for a second. One of the questions that I had personally is that I had been taking arganine and citrulline. Does that work to build the the nitric oxide or is that should I be focusing on beetroot juice?

The the short answer would be I'd focus on beetroot juice. Arginine itself, the data's it's in I'll tell you what I recommend. Arginine, I don't recommend. I'm not convinced it really does much of anything. Did you mention citrulline? That the other one. Yeah, citrulline, this is one of those where the dosing is high enough that okay, would I recommend it? Yeah, I could recommend it. It's not going to cause harm. It might help.

Okay.

Yes.

But the dosing is high, is so high in you know it's grams now that hmm, do you think you'll maintain that kind of supplement regimen? Now these all these other supplements, the dosing's fairly low. So I don't put citrulline in sort of my top ten list. However, if an athlete said, Hey, I'm been I'm taking, you know, 10 grams of citrulline, I'm hey, if you could keep that up, I see no reason to stop. Arginine, I don't recommend. but in terms of, you know, I think the beetroot juice is really your best bet. And

Hopefully they've made better tasting beetroot juice because the initial stuff I tried, I'm like, this is so bad. I'd rather just be slower.

Yeah, that's

Tastes like dirt. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean it tastes like dirt. You know, that's that's the problem.

Jose Jose,

how man how many beets do you need to eat to to get the same level of of that's in that's in the beetroot juice?

Mm.

You know, I looked that

up once and it was so many beats that I don't remember the exact number. and that's why I recommend there's I forget the brand name, there's a powder that's just much more easy to get get the the right amount of the nitrates. But I don't recall exactly how many beets. And beets are gross too.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I don't mind them. I'm starting to develop a taste for them. So I've been I've been playing around with that. Yeah, I've been eating them raw. So I Yeah. I know I know. But that's what I want. I mean, that's kind of like I'm you're going through your list, but I'm just kind of wondering like, what are the whole food sources that also potentially give you, you know, little degrees of these supplements that are along the way? And I'm thinking, like,

I like Yeah.

Really?

God, you're hardcore.

Wow.

Animal protein probably, right? Like, you know, yeah, I think we talked about your wife on the training science podcast when she was up around three grams per kilogram body weight at at some point that where she was looking at. And then of course creatine comes with that, protein comes with that. could you have like a lot beets and beets and carnivore kind of kind of mix in there?

Yeah, you you would be the first person I know that would eat that wants to eat beets itself to get the nitrates. I I don't think I ever heard anyone say that. Hey, how many beets could I eat? It's more like do I have to drink this stuff? But hey, you know, if you could get it in food, which I think is tough for almost all these, it's it's tough to get it in food. I mean, like beta alanines in poultry. well, sodium bicarbonate, it's baking soda. I mean, you could

Okay. I'm weird.

No.

Yeah.

Totally.

Yeah.

Yeah,

so but I think it's just so difficult to get any of this stuff in food that the supplement is what makes the most pragmatic sense.

I didn't know that beta alanine was in poultry. That's that's that's interesting.

Yeah, it's not enough to matter though. You'd have to eat you'd have to eat a freaking chicken. That's right. Yeah. So so I I'd recommend the capsules. It works a lot it works a lot better.

You have to eat a lot of chicken.

Mm-hmm.

Okay.

With the creatin, there's been a you know, the broscience has been changing over the last, you know, several weeks and months that you're we're now taking, you know, massive doses of it. What's what's the recommended dose for creatin?

That's a dang good question. In fact, I talked to all in fact I've done some creatine research, but I know guys who their livelihood entirely is creatine research. So I talk to them quite frequently. And it depends what your goal is. If the goal is to affect skeletal muscle, a dose of five grams a day seems to be sufficient. However, there's

Yeah.

Okay.

Interesting data coming out that in order to affect cognition, and this particularly for older adults. And I I it's funny. when I used to do research way back when and I saw the term older adults, I'm like, that's old people. And then I'm thinking, holy shit, that's me now. I'm an older adult. Kind of sucks, you know. So so now I gotta think, wait a minute, older adult, that that's me. Wait a minute. Okay, so how much creatine should I take? Well

Darren Kandau, he's at the University of Regina in Saskatchewan. He probably has done more creatine research than anyone. He takes 20 grams a day. He says it has to be that high to get enough creatine to get into your brain. He could be right. Again, he's not one of those guys that has to wait for 50 more studies. It's just that it's more difficult to get into the central nervous system than in skeletal muscle. Now, the question I would ask is: okay.

Whoa.

I've been taking three to five grams of creatine since, and this is a test of your history knowledge, Paul, since Bill Clinton was president. So, so what it's funny, I mention that to my students. I teach sports nutrition. I'm like, I've been taking this stuff since Bill Clinton was president. And they look at me like, so is that long? So would taking low doses for a long time be equivalent to taking 20 grams a day for like a year?

Yeah.

Yep.

Answer is nobody knows. However, in to justify my dose, because I don't want to take more, because I have I have a routine of what I take in the morning, I'm thinking, I hope, because I've taken it for so long that some of it has gotten into my brain, you know, and helps with cognition and whatnot. So if the goal is to affect cognition, it's possible you may need more than the typical five grams a day.

For runners, since they carry their body weight when they when they train and race, lower than five grams, maybe even two grams a day would be enough. Maybe it'll help with recovery. but anything more than that, they might gain weight. for all the other endurance sports where body weight supported, probably doesn't matter, stick to five grams a day.

Okay. And what with the protein I generally for my athletes say one gram per pound of body weight. is that accurate? Should I be telling them more or less? What's or has that come down to goals as well?

Well come it does come down to goals and we're talking mainly endurance athletes, right? Yeah. i i i and and it falls down into the philosophy is does more potentially help? Yes. Does more potentially hurt? No. So it's not gonna hurt ya. It potentially could help you. And I even use this with with bodybuilders, because I this is usually who I get in arguments with. It's the people who look at bodybuilding, they're like, Well, you know what? If you'll get just lean body mass,

Correct.

Seems like it sort of levels off somewhere between 1.6 and 2.2 grams per kilo. Anything more than that doesn't produce more muscle mass or lean body mass. And in general, I would agree, but then I would say, well, what's the harm of going up to 2.5 grams per kilo? Or three? And the answer is there's no harm. So what's the potential benefit? Well

so again, it depends on your goals, but there's no downside to having a very high protein diet. To me, I wrote a paper on this a long time ago, and I I I put forth basically what your recommendation is, Paul, that one gram per pound should be the baseline. That should be what all athletes are on. And then if you want to go higher than that, to me, there's there's certainly no harm and there's potential benefit. However, it's hard for people to eat that much protein. It really is. It's

Mm.

It is.

It's

I talk to college athletes, you know, because I I teach at Nova Southeastern University, and even college athletes are like, man, I just can't eat that much. Either one, they're too lazy to do it, or two, I'm poor, so I can't really eat that much. I mean, and it's true, shakes aren't the cheapest thing. I mean, milk is kind of cheap. I guess you could drink a lot of milk, but then you'd be drinking a lot of milk. so that you know, there's there's that practical aspect where, young students are

Kind of poor. They're like, well, I'm not gonna eat all that protein just because I don't have that much money. But then if money's not an issue, it's it falls down to is it a behavior that you can repeat? and you can adhere to. If you can't adhere to it, you know, it's like, why start? Because what in fact I'm gonna give a talk at at a hospital down in Weston Florida talking about consuming high protein diets. And the question I always get is well, what if, you know, what if my aunt or uncle wants to do that? And my answer is they'll never do it.

You know why they'll never do it? Because it's hard to do. One gram per pound sounds easy, but for a lot of people, it's actually kind of difficult. And if you want to go above one gram per pound, forget it. There are not many people who could do that. bodybuilders, a few endurance people, but the average person who just works out, goes to the gym, maybe runs a little, maybe rides their e-bike, which is a fake bike. I hate when I see e-bikes on the road. I hate to say it.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

one gram per pound they they're not gonna do it.

Yeah. I I'm you're you're you're speaking here, Jose, and I'm I'm reflecting on my my daughter listeners of the podcast, I'll know she's a high performance swimmer, she's sixteen years of age. What I find interesting, because I'm I'm I'm generally the provider of the food and and I'm, you know, with the knowledge of the importance of protein, I'm putting that in front of her, a variety of different sources. And she self-regulates the amount ba and I can kind of observe based on her

training load of the day kind of thing. It's been a a light day. I just almost kind of see she she just doesn't want to consume much more. But on a on a big heavy day, she's naturally wanting that that protein. I I j I do believe there's something in the mind that that knows sort of how how much you need or on the on that day. maybe, I don't know, kind of

Y do you think she's

looking at it as a calorie issue on those easy days?

No,

I don't think so. No, 'cause she's consuming all the other calories that are sort of around it. she's gravitating more to the carb fat kind of sources that are around around the plate. but the protein is hard, like to your point, the protein is hard to have excess of.

Yeah. And and also let's face it, carbs and fat taste better than protein, no matter what you say. I can I can go out for a meal and stuff my face and I'm like, I'm so full. And then they're like, you want dessert? I'm like, yeah, I got room for dessert. But if they say you want another slice of beef, I'm like, no, I don't want more beef. now what's interesting about your daughter is you know, should you eat less protein on easy days or on days off? And

Yeah. Yeah.

Again, there's no data on this. I mean, because it's it'd be hard to do that kind of study. So a lot of it is you sort of have to think, well, you know, what are the basic principles as it relates to recovering from exercise? So let's say, let's say Sunday's the day off and she's been training and swimmers, first of all, the volume that swimmers do is like nuts. I when I talk to some of the collegiate swimmers, I'm like, so you guys basically live in water. You're living in water and they're constantly training like.

Yeah. Yeah.

Holy crap, just the energy expenditure is crazy. So let's say Sunday's the day off. To me, the protein intake still has to be high because you need amino acids for recovery. It shouldn't be a day where you ratchet back protein intake. It should still be high. In fact, I don't think you should deviate from it at all, you know, during training and maybe the days off. Now, if you're dealing with an event like the tour, where the energy expenditure is so great every day for a long time.

Mm-hmm.

That's different. Now you just got to get calories in all day, every day, just to recover. But for most, you know, high school or college athletes who, might get a day off here and there, maybe two days a week they get off. I still think they need to keep the protein intake high just to recover.

Yeah. Yeah, for sure. But

Yeah, and when I say

hi, yeah, when I say hi, to me it's not high, but it's the baseline that Paul you mentioned, one gram per pound. If you could stick to one gram per pound every day, and let's say one day it's point nine grams, another day it's one point one, as long as you're sort of in that ballpark, I think I think that's a good thing.

Yeah. Yeah, that's nice. That's nice. I think it's a good we're trying to give a listener a target, right? And I think you're you're doing that really well. yeah, my point was just just around her. It's almost like she innately knows what her body sort of feels like, even though I'm encouraging her, you know, come on, have that last piece of steak. Come on, come on, get it like, Dad, I'm full, you know. But then she'll go back to the other other stuff around it. So it's just interesting.

I don't know

Right.

Or she should just have, you know, to me one of the easiest ways to get protein is I use a ready to drink protein shake to take all my vitamin pills and whatnot in the morning. So I immediately get anywhere from thirty to forty grams just 'cause I'm drinking a shake and popping pills. so that's one way I think it works for a lot of people. Might be worth trying.

Mm.

All right, let's move on to the next category. supplements that are a giant waste of time. And you know, there were a couple that came out from your research, but let's have you start and like what are some, overhyped broscience? Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

We only have so much time

Well no,

it's it's kind of it's it's an interesting question because it's actually not a question I get a lot, believe it or not. I yeah, I rarely get this question. It's oftentimes what should I take rather than what should I not take. Now, I do think the most overhyped category is, particularly whether it's endurance athletes or strength power athletes, are the testosterone boosters. the probably the most popular one is is tonkat ali.

Mm-hmm.

Andrew Huberman popularized it because he I think he has a product line that has that in it. And if you look at the data on Tongat Ali, does it increase testosterone? technically, yes, in older hypogenetal males. But the it's a blip. It's like you take it, there's a blip, and then it drops. Why? Because of negative feedback. The only way to really permanently elevate.

Testosterone is to be on TRT. I mean, whether it's injection or pellets or you rub on cream, that's the only way you can really elevate it. These supplements that cause these minor blips in testosterone are not going to affect anything. They're not going to affect lean mass, they're going to not gonna affect recovery because the blip is short-lived and it's also tends to be just very it in older males who are who have low testosterone begin begin with. If you're a normal, healthy young male, you you run, you run, you lift weights, you do whatever.

Your testosterone is in the you know typical range where it's normal. These testosterone boosters are not gonna help. as far as others that don't work, it's it's just funny. I don't I I try not to think, I don't think in this manner. What should I tell you not working? It's sort of more could it possibly help you at all? And it could it possibly hurt you? So I'm I'm almost gonna have to throw it back to you guys. What have you heard that?

People are taking that the the data on it is not convincing and also you don't see it working at all.

You had talked about Turk I think Turk t turkesterone. Yeah. What about that?

Or terchesterum. Yeah.

That's another testosterone. Well, supposed testosterone booster. Again, there's no data at all in humans that the that even shows it boosts testosterone. So that in fact Toncat Ali probably has more data than terchesterone, but neither one has shown any effect on lean body mass or anything like that. But that again is in the T booster category. So that category, it's interesting, that category is still still around, even though.

It's now acceptable. I mean, you TRT, testosterone replacement therapy is now acceptable. I mean, if you went back 20 or 30 years, it's like, physicians don't really want to prescribe it. Now it's pretty much common and no one really cares. So like, yeah, yeah, get testosterone replacement therapy. In fact, there are women now who do it. They'll do very low dose testosterone. So the T booster category definitely one I think is a waste of money. as far as others that might be a waste.

I can't think it of any off the top of my head because I think you can always find something in a supplement that might help. Now, there there is a broad category of supplements I typically don't recommend. Not because I don't think they work, because I I don't I can't figure out a mechanism. Like all these other supplements, if there's a plausible mechanism of action that it would hurt, would help, I would say try. It's the category of herbs.

Mm.

One of the popular ones, in fact, if you look at the data, Ashwagandha actually has a lot of data. showing it helps with recovery, you feel better. but I I can't think of a mechanism. I mean, what's in the herb that causes all of this? So that's one where you know the purist will say, Well, there is data on it. And I'd say, Yeah, you're right, but but how does it work? I mean, what is it in the ashwagandha that is doing what you say it does?

All this other stuff, the nitrates, creatine, caffeine, beta, we know how it works. We know the mechanism. The herbs, I'm like, I don't know. I I but then people say, should I try it? I'm like, hey, you know what? I don't think it'll hurt you. Go ahead and try it. It's just not on my you know, top 10 or 20 list of things you should try. But the herbal category kind of bugs me. It's like, I I wish I knew how it worked. I don't.

Mm.

Jose, I've I've got a it's I've actually got a podcast later on today, training science podcast, with an expert on the belief effect. And I'm wondering, I'm just kind of listening to you here and I'm thinking like, what is your thinking with your coach out on, you've you know, so a consultant to your wife, obviously. Any any thoughts there on that belief effect and how supplements, you know, even some of these ones that you're

You're talking about that, likely there's there's nothing there. Could they be used for that belief effect to get something more from an athlete?

Yeah. Yeah.

Absolutely. In fact, I think that's I would even call it the placebo effect. there was a really brilliant study done on caffeine. They had they had subjects undergo low dose, moderate dose, or high dose of caffeine. And then they tested them on, I think they were like cognitive tests. And

But the difference was they told them what they were taking. you're taking low dose. you're taking moderate, or you're talking taking high. So what they find, well, they found that the lower dose didn't do as well as the middle dose. The middle dose didn't do as well as the higher dose. But that's not even the kicker. The kicker was all of was a placebo. So everything they gave was fake. They just said, this is the high dose stuff. This is the middle dose. This is low dose. And people were like, well, if it's high dose, I should be doing better.

Wow.

They did do better. So the power of belief, the placebo effect is absolutely real. In fact, as a coach, just if you have a coach that can motivate you and you know that believes in you, that alone is the power of belief where you're like, well, he or she thinks I'm gonna kick ass today. I'm gonna kick ass. I don't care if I didn't get any sleep. I don't care if my diet sucked yesterday, I'm gonna kick ass today. Yeah, but I think that's yeah, it's powerful. Yeah.

Hm.

yeah. That's awesome.

Hmm. So what are some supplements that are or some ideas about supplementation that are that have future promise? For instance, probiotics, gut health, the microbiome. What what what's your what's your thought about that?

You know what's funny? I talk to a guy who does probiotic research. And after I talked to him, I'm just more confused. I'm like, okay, so what should I go down? So what should I take? He's like, well, hmm, it kind of depends. I'm like, depends on what? And the gut microbiome is so complicated. I in fact, on my on my podcast, I had someone who does research on it. And I'm like, I'm not sure I know I know any more than I did after that podcast.

So I'm gonna take a very pragmatic view. One, we know exercise helps the gut microbiome. Okay, okay, that's a good one. We all exercise, that's a good one. there seems to be certain foods that help, like fermented foods, like kimchi, like sauerkraut. So I'm like, okay, good, at I eat kimchi. I hate sauerkraut. Now, there's all of these different bacteria, probiotics that you could take, and the data is all over the place. However,

I don't think I don't see any harm in taking any of these probiotics. And I and the whole idea that the gut's connected to the brain, et cetera, et cetera. Interesting stuff, super complicated. I won't even I won't even pretend to understand all of that. I mean, the people who do just microbiome research, for them it's even difficult, you know, because cause it's it's I mean it's relatively new, I guess. but I think there's something there for with the probiotics. I mean it's

Something I take, but here's what I do. I take a shotgun approach. I'm like, you know what? I've been taking this one. Let me buy another one just to see. Here's the thing. Is there any measurable effect that I know of? No. I I only don't, but but maybe it goes back to the belief. It's like, I think this is helping me. But then again, I actually eat really well for the most part. I mean, I don't really eat a lot of junk. so is it the probiotic? Is it the vegetables I eat?

And my answer is who the hell cares? I think all of it's gonna help anyways. And I don't think there's any harm in doing a probiotic. and but I always tell people just eat some kimchi, maybe some sauerkraut. It's gonna be good for your gut.

Hundred percent. Yeah, similar. yeah. The kefir, kefir it's coming like kind of like the yogurt thing, sauerkraut, kimchi. Yeah. for me personally, I find when I just getting this regular dose of any of those three, it just helps my overall gut health. F me personally. and and it's just and and I know if I ever go a long time without just for sort of forgetting to put those in.

Yeah, yeah.

and it it might get disturbed and then that's that's a quick quick way I can kinda correct things. So yeah, it's it's not a not a supplement per se, but kind of those those food sources really help me.

Yeah.

Yeah, I've been I've been lucky all my life. I've never had any gut hit issues ever. I mean, there are people who complain about being constipated or whatnot, and I'm like, wow, what what's that even like? I mean, people have IBS and all these other inflammatory disorders. I'm like, Yeah, I'm like, I never really had a gut issue. I I don't know why. I mean, I I kinda eat the same things every day. I eat rice with meat and vegetables. I mean, I grew up, I mean my back I was born in the Philippines, but we came over here when I was three years old, so

Mm.

Totally.

I grew up in the United States, but I ate a lot of your sort of typical Filipino food. It's rice with a vegetable and a meat. And it's and in fact sometimes they ate rice three times a day. So maybe there's something about white rice. Hell, I don't know.

Mm.

Ha ha.

So, Jose, what about kind of personalized supplementation? Is the future of sports nutrition individualizing supplement recommendations based on, you know, genetics or the microbiome or training status or goals? I mean, where is that part of the field going?

I think out of all the ones you mentioned there, goals are the only ones where you can actually match the supplement with the goal. As far as, you know, if you look at someone's genetic profile, can you match that with a supplement program? I don't think the I don't think the science is there, and I don't even know how you would do that, to be honest. so I think to me, the easiest thing is what's your goal?

Okay.

What supplements and or diet and or training will help you reach your goal. And for people in the exercise world, that's not that difficult because really you have the extremes. You have endurance extreme and you have strength and power as an extreme. The complicated stuff is in the middle where there are team sports that now you're dealing with multiple people on the field. Let's take soccer. There's multiple people on the field. The goalkeeper or goalie could just have a bad game for whatever reason, maybe didn't sleep well.

And everyone else has a great game. But everyone's all, you know, you're doing all the right supplementation, the diet and the training, but all it takes is one person to have a bad day. so the team sports really complicated because when I get asked about, you know, supplement regimens for team sports, it's like, man, that's kind of difficult because it really depends what position on the team you are. But with individual sports, to me, if it's a podium sport, okay, this is relatively simple. It's like, okay, you just want to be a little bit faster than you were before, or you want to place a little bit higher than you were before.

That's an easy-to-measure goal. So when you're dealing with easy-to-measure goals, I think you can come up with a a supplement program or supplement scheme. Now, I will say this, I've been to enough races, whether it's stand-up paddling, canoe racing, cycling, running, and I'm always shocked how little athletes know about nutrition or supplements. In fact, I'm kind of shocked how little they know about training, to be honest. There's some people who just they have no plan.

They just run or they bike. I'm like, wow, you're that good, and all you do is just kind of haphazardly exercise. There are people I know who haphazardly exercise and they're actually really good. I'm like, wait a minute. Imagine if you had a plan. You know, there's this one woman, a friend of ours, who she always she almost always podiums in these local races here. And during the week, she might lift weights, she might ride the bike, and then she uses racing as her training. I'm like, what?

Absolutely.

Yeah.

What the hell? And your podium, what the hell is going on here? So and then there's people like me work out like hell. I have a plan and I'm like, man, I'm still in the bottom fifty percent. So so it's just strange how that's it's just strange how that works.

Ha ha

Yeah. We're coming to the end of our hour here. are there other supplements that you're w keeping your eye on?

Other supplements I'm keeping my eye on. I think, well, the one I had mentioned earlier was the sodium bicarbonate. There's a brand, mauten M-A-U-R-T-E N. They're out of the out of the UK. That's something, I mean, let's face it, that's relatively new. I think that's one that all endurance athletes should be looking at. Someone had asked me actually about glycerol as a hydrating agent.

Mm-hmm.

Yep.

And the interesting thing is, I don't know any athletes who use glycerol. And the data's there, believe it or not. so that's something I guess some people might want to try. I think the other big, I want to say, argument within the science and endurance world is if you're in a sport or an event that takes more than an hour, or or let's say two hours, how many grams of carbs should you be consuming per hour? Is it 30? Is it 60?

I mean, I've seen some data, 120. and I'll answer that as whatever you do, make sure you practice it during training. Cause this is not something you want to try like the day of a race. Hey, I think I'll do 120 grams of carbs a day. It's like some carbs are gonna help you. There's plenty of data showing that during a race, carbohydrate intake will help performance. Really, the question is how much should you be consuming? And to me, that's one of those things where you just gotta experiment with it. You know, make

I think I recommend for my wife, I mean her she does short time trials, but she'll drink this is this is it's not to do supplement, but she'll drink Coca-Cola. So she gets Coca-Cola because it has has fluid, it's got caffeine, it's got sugar. Drink it like 10 or 15 minutes before the race, to get her carbs in because the the time trial she focuses on are the five K and 10K. Some people call that a sprint. I'm like, well, I ain't that ain't a sprint to me, but hey, you guys call it a sprint, whatever. It's a sprint. so it's not long enough that, you know.

That you need to consume a lot of carbs during. So if you just do it pre race, I think it's you know, I think it's it it will help quite a bit.

No, no, agree. And again, that's a that's a that's a huge huge debate. And but if the the take home message is just as you said, Jose, is like whatever you decide to do, please make sure that you've you've you've done it in practice. and don't don't save it don't save a new strategy for race day. That's

Where can people go ahead, Paul?

Well,

you what's you know what's ironic, Paul, is there are people who will try it on race day. It's it's the nuttiest thing. I you know, I go to these races and I'm a spectator for these cycling races, and I listen to them talk, I'm like, so they're gonna try this today? They're gonna try this today? What are you nuts? I so it it's it's interesting that in the endurance world, actually in in all athletic worlds, how little the athlete knows. I think

Yeah. Yeah.

I think all of us we kind of assume they should know the basics. And I'm telling you, a lot of them don't even know the basics, which is kind of crazy. I'm like, wow, you guys are pretty good and you don't know anything. So it's crazy.

Well, we're working here on the on podcasts like like this one, Jose, where we're yeah, we're trying to trying to educate people and and I think we've done that well well here today.

Great.

Awesome.

Jose, what can people find out more about your work?

Okay, let me mention I organize a sports nutrition conference. I think you guys should attend. It's always in June in Florida. It's the International Society Sports Nutrition. the website is ISSN.net. That's ISSN.net. And we actually have a whole slew of conferences this year. We have one in Spain. we'll have one in Medellin, Colombia. The next year we'll be back in Italy, back in Florida, of course, and probably in Costa Rica. But

That's the easiest place to find me is on that website. And also on Instagram and X. On X, you can find me on Jose Antonio PhD. And on Instagram, I have the ISSN as one of my Instagram pages. And the other one is is S U P H D Sup PhD, stand-up paddling PhD, as my other sort of personal page where I post like paddling pictures and pictures of my sausage dog. So yeah.

Mm-hmm.

It

is a it is a great sight. You know, it's fun to watch the sausage dogs, definitely. So Well, thank you for so much for joining us today. We really appreciate it.

you're welcome. It's been fun. So any way we can spread the message to endurance athletes, we gotta do it.

Awesome. Thank you, ho thank you, Jose. Really really great talk.

Thanks.

Thanks for listening today to the Athletes Compass Podcast. Take a moment now, subscribe, share, and let's keep navigating this endurance adventure together. Improve your training with the science based training platform Atletica and join the conversation at the Athletica Forum for Dr. Jose Antonio and Dr. Paul Laursen I'm Paul Warloski and this has been the Athletes Compass Podcast. Thank you so much for listening.