In this episode, Erin Carson, one of the most respected strength coaches in endurance sports, breaks down why movement quality is the foundation of performance, injury prevention, and long-term athletic success. She explains how many athletes are already “strong enough” but are limited by stiffness, poor mechanics, and inefficient movement patterns. From simple at-home routines to the concept of “easy speed,” Erin shares practical strategies to improve mobility, unlock better performance, and train for longevity, so you’re not just faster today, but still moving well decades from now.

Key Takeaways

• Movement quality = efficiency. Better movement reduces energy cost and improves performance quickly.
• Many athletes don’t need more strength—they need better mobility and coordination.
• “Easy speed” comes from improved mechanics, not just fitness gains.
• Tightness in the front of the body inhibits strength in the back (reciprocal inhibition).
• Most endurance athletes are overly tight in hip flexors and chest due to training posture.
• Overhead squats are a powerful diagnostic tool for mobility limitations.
• Ankles, hips, and thoracic spine are the three key mobility areas.
• Strength training should support movement, not compromise it.
• Small, consistent routines (“four things”) are more effective than complex programs.
• Multi-directional movement reduces injury risk and improves durability.
• Elastic energy (bounce) is more efficient than muscular force.
• Variety in training (especially for youth athletes) is critical for long-term success.
• Longevity training starts now: how you move today determines how you age.

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• Marjaana Rakai | Nordic Performance Lab

everybody can do this right now, just stand up, look down at your feet, and the bottom line is, your feet turned out? And if they are, it's a pretty good guess that your lateral hip is pretty tight. So your external rotators.

are a little bit, your fascia is wrapping to the

Hello and welcome to the Athletes Compass podcast where we navigate training, fitness and health for everyday athletes. Today we're discussing movement training with Erin Carson, the driving force behind EC fit strength. Erin has built one of the most respected strength and conditioning programs in endurance sports, working with world champions like Taylor Nib, while also creating accessible programs for everyday athletes like us.

She'll be sharing her insights on how proper movement training can transform your endurance performance, prevent injuries and keep you stronger for life. Whether you're struggling with nagging aches, hitting performance plateaus or just want to feel more confident in your training, Erin's approach to movement quality could be the missing piece in your athletic journey. Erin, first of all, welcome to the show. We're so glad you're here.

Thank you so much for having me. Super excited.

Erin, you work with both world-class athletes and everyday athletes. How does your approach to movement training different or stay the same when working with everyday endurance athletes versus your professional athletes?

I think the most important thing is the overlying approach is to understand ⁓ each of us is given a genetic gift and talent is a beautiful gift to have been given, but not all of us got the world champion genes. So I'm gonna look at a human being in the context of which they stand before me.

And, or even if they don't stand before me, we have to just accept and understand how we fit and where we fit and how we can optimize what we're already been given. So I'm going to work pretty similar with a world-class athlete that comes to me and is already up in the top five or top 1 % as somebody who comes to me with a driving need and desire to get better within their own genetic makeup. So we all have.

I've worked with some para athletes so there's definitely different challenges when it comes to those kinds of athletes but for the most part we're walking the earth very similar way but we just have different different levels.

I've listened to you on a lot of different podcasts, and you often talk about movement quality alongside strength building for our everyday endurance athletes. How would you explain what good movement quality actually looks like in their training? And how would you go about doing that? That's a huge question. Let's start with the beginning.

It's a,

it's a beautiful question because it calls into your imagination and your memories of watching beautiful athletic performance and that state of flow. So it can be a marathon runner. It can be a figure skater, a hockey player, soccer player, when they just can change direction. They can run backwards. They can run forward and it looks effortless.

So movement quality, when somebody first walks in to the gym, I'm gonna have them usually run backwards a little bit and we'll see how that flows. We might have them do a little karaoke, right foot in front of left, left foot in front of right and just kind of see how the shoulders and hips are separating or not.

So movement quality, when somebody first walks in to the gym, I'm going to have them run backwards a little bit. And see how that goes. We've got a little karaoke right there. that's how it goes. And see how the shoulders and hips are separating around.

And there's a really technical term that we call herky jerky. And sometimes it just looks herky jerky. And your job

And there's a really technical term that we call coast journey. And we're trying to do coast journey. And you're

in my role or my role is to try and smooth out those lines and find out, ⁓ and dig to the next layer to find that flow. And some people, takes some people, it can take an hour to get to flow. Some people, it can take five minutes. We just have to work out some lines.

Erin you were on Paul's Training Science Podcast, episode 92, and it was absolutely one of the most downloaded episodes. And one of the things that we wanted to talk with you about here is something that you talked about on that podcast is that many endurance athletes think that strength training means lifting heavy weights. How is movement training?

different than just getting stronger? And what are some examples of what you mean by movement training?

I think for the most part, when we're looking at an outcome, the outcome being better performance, then the program has to kind of match what the desired outcome is. So you have to look back at like, what do you need? So some athletes just aren't strong enough. They're not in the zip code of athleticism that they want to be in to be competitive. And I do the hashtags because

that means different things to different people. For some people, it means moving up into the top third of their age group. some people, it just means moving from the bottom 10 % up a little bit and just keep moving forward. So some athletes truly do need to get stronger to get into the zip code. And that's where they need to start. and

Some people, like most people that make their way to me, are already in the top half of their age group or they're winning races or they want a world championship slot. And for them, most of them, I would really say you're strong enough to get what we need right now. It's not going to say that that's going to work over time. We're probably going to have to get stronger to keep ascending. But the truth is, if we can just give you more freedom in your body,

and allow you to use energy in a different way because you're not physically having to push as hard through different kinds of movements and barriers that might be in your body. We just want to make things easier. And for a long time, I use that hashtag easy speed. And that's the difference. You know, I'll sit on my bike and I'll ride at 175 Watts. And if I can report my RPE at 175 Watts is a seven.

And what we want to see is I want to ride it 175 Watts within a relatively short time after starting movement training. And 175 Watts feels like a six or maybe a five. And that didn't come from a training effect because it happened within a week. I mean, coaches, I, I'm very lucky. work with a lot of very good coaches and it's there. My job is to clear the path so that the coaches can do their job without a physical,

push back, know, sore shoulders and sore hips and sore knees get in the way of for those ⁓ specialists who are sport coaches.

Erin, let me double click on that one. again, speaking personally, just when you do sort of have those aches and pains,

Yeah.

to me, and again, this is speaking personally, I have a few of those. I believe it's kind of affecting my range of motion. And then therefore my movement quality.

to me, you know, again, this is speaking personally, have a few of those, I believe it's kind of affecting my range of motion. What, and then therefore my movement quality,

Where does one sort of begin? I recognize everyone is a different context, but are there some general rules that you follow when someone is stiff and sore and apparently lacking some range of motion?

where does one sort of begin? I recognize everyone's a different context, but are there some general rules that you follow when someone is stiff and it's of apparently lacking in some range of motion?

Yeah, it's kind of why I keep doing Monday mobility. So Monday mobility is just everybody's check-in and paying attention to your body and understanding that thing that happened in my left shoulder last Monday is still there. Or it isn't there because a lot of times dehydrated tissue, a little bit of position, like if you spend a long time in

time trial position, or you're just getting back in as a lot of people are in the spring, getting more comfortable in time trial or they're swimming more or whatever it is. You know, sometimes it makes perfect sense why your left shoulder hurts. It might just need a little more recovery. And then it probably needs a little bit more strength as going in. And you can get strength from swimming, whether it's paddles, like all the swim coaches will tell you, I need you stronger in the pool. No doubt. don't need to be in the gym. I could say,

you sometimes it makes perfect sense why your left shoulder hurts it might just need a little more recovery and then it probably needs a little bit more strength as going in you can get strength from swimming whether it's paddles like all the swim coaches tell you I need you stronger in the pool, you don't need to be in the gym I could say

in a very responsible way I could probably help you with that you know it's not just paddles we could use some really specific targeting so understanding and working

in a very responsible way, I could probably help you with that. You know, it's not just paddles. We could do some really specific targeting. understanding and working from

from the understanding that the front side of the body gets tight from different movements. we can just use the front side of the body to assess I'm tight. I'm tight in my chest and then my upper back becomes neurologically inhibited

the understanding that the front side of the body gets tight from different movements. Or we were talking a little bit early about just sitting in a chair. So we can just use the front side of the body to assess I'm tight. I'm tight in my chest. And then my upper back becomes neurologically inhibited.

to accommodate the tightness. Strength on the upper back.

to accommodate the tightness. Strength on the upper back

will push that fatigue out a little bit. So we don't do many pushing exercises. It's about 70 to 80 % is pulling, strengthening the backside of the body, but we've got to open the front side of the body. It's called reciprocal inhibition.

where tightness on the front side of the joint causes inhibition on the backside of the joint, inhibition then cause lack of muscle function. And we need to strengthen it to keep the position longer. So that's why stronger athletes will get out of TT position and get up and run with much more ease than someone who hasn't strengthened in that way.

So same concept with hip flexors. Everybody talks about glute function and the power of the glutes and accessing more glute activation and function. And it's almost impossible to do that with tight hip flexors. So what's more important, more squats or more movement towards opening up the front side of the body and getting really big and comfortable with being long on the front.

Nice.

So it's all those little

So it's all

those little strategies to open up front side of the

strategies to open up the front side of the body.

You're almost hinting a little bit to me, Erin, just like this balanced distribution of muscle mass and range. You me and you, you were drawing on the pushing and then, basically making sure you've got the pull muscles activated as well, right? And, you know, again, following lots of strength and conditioners, I sort of, hear that general.

You're almost changing a little bit to me and just like this balanced distribution of muscle mass range. You you were drawing on the pushing and basically making sure you've got pull muscles activated as well, And again, following lots of strength and conditioners, I sort of hear that general

100 %

philosophy that's out there. It's like, what are the key exercises that you need be doing while you need to be doing some push, you be doing some pull

philosophy that's out there. It's like, you what are the key exercises that need to be doing well? You need to be doing some push, you need to be doing some pulls,

you need to be doing some leg exercise, squats. you have any global general recommendations for all of that or is it too nuanced to even give a recommendation?

Well, it's somewhat nuanced to each individual. And the more people I deal with, the more they realize that. That people generally don't want a general program. But I have to push them into a general program because just do the general program for 30 days. Then we'll figure out your more specific stuff. But they have such good results from the first 30 days that they're like, okay, I have less specific things that I need to work on. if it's a matter of trust and

So I've got everybody starting, just do this, this set of exercises for 30 days. And a lot of them involve overhead. So we know a back squat is not my favorite exercise for endurance athletes, primarily because they are tight on the front side of the body. So when you put them with a bar on their back,

it shoves their head forward and it puts them in a position where they can accept usually more load than they can ⁓ from a front squat. I much prefer a front squat because it encourages spinal extension and a better stack on the body. So I call a stack the ears over shoulders, shoulders over hips, hips over ankles. If you put somebody with a bar on their back, their head immediately goes forward and it places more forward ⁓ translation than a front squat.

Hmm.

So I try to get people to do even before a front squat would be an overhead squat. And if they are not very successful in an overhead squat, which very few people are until they get used to it, ⁓ they shouldn't be loading that spine and that system to that, to that much extent, trying to chase lower body strength. So usually with an overhead squat, a nice bar, and it can be a dowel. can be a, lot of people, have broom, broom sticks in their gyms and they

So I try to get people to do even before a front squat would be an overhead squat. And if they are not very successful in an overhead squat, which very few people are, until they get used to it, they shouldn't be loving that spine and that system to that much extent, trying to chase lower body strength. So usually with an overhead squat, a nice bar, it can be a dowel, it can be a lot of people have them.

put the broomstick directly over their head and they're already realizing how tight they are on their chest. They can't even get that. They know they have it way out in front of their face. I'm like, no, no, bring it back here. So that's optimal shoulder function. That's optimal thoracic spine mobility. And once they get ⁓ to the point where they try to squat, they squat and they immediately dive their chest.

Yeah.

straight down to the

floor. And I'm like, well, that's either going to be tight hip flexors or lack of ankle mobility. Because we always have to go back. mean, if you've listened to me a little bit, I really don't shift much. I'm just old enough. I've learned a lot and I'm kind of dialed on what I think. And I've been taught by some of the best teachers and three key areas of the mobility, ankles, hips, thoracic spine. Those are the three key areas. Everything that happens between those.

The knees happen between the ankles and the hips. The lumbar spine happens between the hips and the thoracic spine. And the cervical spine happens above thoracic. So it's going to be a lack of mobility somewhere. So in an overhead squat, if they're diving forward, your young mind, your first thought is, hmm, tight hip flexors, let's go after the hip flexors. But if you've been doing that for a little while, you can elevate their heels.

by one or two inches and it changes everything. It never was the hip flexors that were that tight. The hip flexors might still be tight, but in an overhead squat, if I just elevate your heels one or two inches, you can drop in the stack, usually beautifully straight down, activate the hips. There still might be work to do in the hips to open them up and have them decouple because they're right side, left side, but it really shows us a lot.

So

So before I put under it, anybody under a big load from a squat and a squatting is a pattern, not an exercise. So you can squat rear foot elevated. You can squat split stance. You can squat 90, 90.

before I put anybody under a big load from a squat, squatting is a pattern, not an exercise. So you can squat with your foot elevated, can squat in split stance, you can squat 90-90.

You can front squat. can back squat. You can goblet squat. mean, squatting is a pattern, but everybody thinks squatting is just one exercise bar on the back. it's just squatting is a vertical pattern, vertical loading, hips, ankles.

It is a great exercise, but there's some people never back squat.

I think

I love it. Yeah, I have been working on my front squat, but I think I need to work on my overhead squat. yeah, I'm going to be back there working on that after this.

I need to work on my overhead squat. ⁓

It's a great setup. Yeah. It's a great way to set up a really good front squat session.

Cause it just opens everything up and everything gets easier.

It makes perfect sense. I love that.

Yeah,

I was going to say like you only need like a broomstick and stop practicing. Like just split everything up, like practicing and you can, it's really revelationary. Like you can see exactly where your, your tight spots are. And I bet like lot of people who are doing back squats, if they just put the bar on the front, they'll realize it real quick. It's a really good exercise. you, it's even

Yeah

For someone who has done strength training all my life, like when I just move the bar from the back to front, it just hits differently. And I'm like thinking like, ⁓

Mm-hmm.

Yeah,

it puts you into that spinal extension. It makes you taller instead of shorter.

Yes.

Yeah. And a lot of people who don't do a lot of strength exercise just using a broomstick and, you know, holding it in front versus holding at the back, it can really show them where their weaknesses are. So it's super exercise or a way to...

Erin, you that some

Yep.

learn something about yourself.

Erin, you said earlier that some people

may need to get stronger, but some people may be strong enough and they're ready to do other movements. How do you know when you're strong enough?

Well, the first question is, are you able to achieve everything your coach is giving you and progress? If you're happy with how you're progressing and we know where you're sitting within your goals. So a lot of these guys that come to me that I think are pretty strong, like the young up and coming short course triathletes.

They care, they're young men. So they're already genetically carrying pretty good muscle. We have to be really careful not to put on a lot more muscles on them because they're in that Superman stage of life where you can just look at a dumbbell and put on four pounds of muscle. So with those kinds of guys, we really want to open them up, especially looking at the demands of the sport. And we always have to look at the demands of the sport. Like right now in short course men's triathlon, you have to run very, very fast. It's a running race for the most part.

Hmm. ⁓

And the leaner you are, the faster you're going to be. And I'm not saying lighter because there's a lot of, I'm loving the way that our triathlon men are so much more athletic. Like they look stronger. They're not afraid to put on a little bit of weight and a little bit of muscle because the durability factor is so big. if somebody's, it just depends on the phase and if they're achieving what they want to achieve.

That's on the way in, but Paul, we're really, really important to look at age as well, because you might be strong today at 47 or 53, but we know what's coming. So we're also kind of fighting nature. And I kind of could present to somebody who's 53, 54 years old, if we are as strong as we are now, five years from now, are we gonna be happy?

Hmm. because you might be strong today at 47 or 53, but we know what's coming. So we're also kind of fighting nature. And I plan to present as somebody who's 53 even at 44.

And then we can assess risk and reward. Like, what are we chasing? Are we chasing to get stronger and stronger and stronger? Or are we just trying to stay as strong as we are and we'll probably build a little bit of strength. And I'm like playing the survivor game of age group racing. It's like outlast, out will, out play. Like if I can keep you healthy and feeling truly just vibrant in life, then.

Thank

you're going to have much more passion and power and ready to train and race and your happiness factor is going to be good because in that stage of life we also have to look at hormones, right? So it really is about finding the right amount of intensity, duration that brings somebody that huge vitality.

That's quite the challenge because as we know, as we get older, we're losing bone mass, muscle mass, if we're not careful, mobility. So how do you balance it all?

Yep.

Well, I think you have to accept and understand that, I mean, and I'm an older athlete as well, is that if I'm as good today as I, you know, five years from now or 10 years from now, I mean, we're going through a little Peter Atia ⁓ decompensation perhaps right now, but I love the marginal decade and love that he presented that concept to me. I don't know if somebody else presented it before him, but we're talking about the last 10 years of your life.

that he presented a concept to me and also we also presented it to him. We're talking about the last 10 years of your

life and very few of us are going to make a million dollars into a triathlon or bike racing or running races, but we are all going to be guaranteed how we show up in our final march, in our marching decade. And that's been a really powerful thought process.

And very few of us are going to make a million dollars doing triathlon or bike racing or running races, but we are all going to be guaranteed how we show up in our final margin, in our marginal decade. And that has been a really powerful thought process

for me to get through to people. ⁓ Because being able to move and run backwards and skip.

and skip with a dowel over your head and rotate when you're 80 is an impressive thing. And so if my generation of strength coaches can help people to think about that, how am I moving at 75? How am I moving at 65? If you're not moving well at 65, it's not going a good direction. So.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Sometimes it's the artistic ability of a coach to not load you too heavy, not push you beyond your limits, ⁓ be patient in the process and create a journey that you can ⁓ participate in without being overwhelmed.

Nice.

Erin, let's take an example of a 40 year old marathoner training six to eight hours a week. They might feel like they don't have time for additional training. How do you make the case for why 30 to 45 minutes per week is actually saving them time in the long run?

You know, I think with endurance athletes, I started thinking this for a while, a while ago. Everybody needs to have something at home. And you're talking to a former gym owner, used to own a 45,000 square foot gym. I was like, everyone needs to go to the gym. But to be honest, time wise, I think people need to have, I mean, they need to have stuff at home.

And you don't need to have a big home. Like you have a beautiful, Paul, I'm looking at your gym. It's beautiful gym, but most people can't have that. So if they have one set of adjustable dumbbells, a big stability ball, a couple of mini bands, and then really for the heavy stuff, maybe a 45, a 55, and depending on who you are, a 65 pound kettlebell. That's a perfect home gym.

So that when you get home from a run, you do a little bit of back lunges. You can do a little bit of lateral gliding. You can do some rows, hit the shower and be done. So I've got a lot of age groupers or, you know, mom's dads, CEOs, like people that are really time crunched and we give them like four things and we call it four things. Do your four things and they'll do it either before.

or after the run or ride. I mean, it's mostly easier. If you're an endurance athlete, you look forward to a run. You don't always look forward to the gym. But if we make it accessible with four things, and then I might be able to sneak a fifth thing in there. I've got some people that started with four things and then out to eight things. Like, cause they, they start feeling, they're like, can you give me one more of those things? And, and it's, ⁓ it doesn't need to be entertainment. I don't do well with athletes who want to be entertained.

I'm

Mm-hmm.

The people that need a ton of variety ⁓ might do better with Peloton.

But I just love that philosophy though there, Erin, because it's accidentally happened to me in my own routine. you gave the four things, right? And it's like, okay, yeah, in my mind, I can handle four things. And then by doing that, you start to develop these routines, these patterns that you can do exactly like that. And then it's actually so easy just to add one more thing onto that. now you've got a new routine.

Yeah.

It's like, I can add one more thing. then, you know, before you know it, a couple months down the road, you have this, you know, you have quite a solid routine and it's all sort of just fitting in your routine, your daily schedule or your workout schedule. And can make a, if it becomes consistent, as we all know, it starts to add up and ⁓ those, yeah, you continue to make those marginal gains and...

Yeah, the rest can be history.

I think that the timing is really cool too, because if you come in off of a long bike ride or a long run, your mood is usually a little bit low. And if you get under a little bit of load, you come out of your session with a little bit more of a high. So you're resetting joint position. A lot of times like those four things is stuff that will take a tight hip and start to add more motion into the hip.

think that the timing is really cool too because if you come in off of a long bike ride or a long run, your move is usually a little bit low. If you get under a little bit of load, you come out of your session with a little bit more of a high. So you're resetting joint position. A lot of times like those core things is stuff that will take a tight hip and start to add more motion into the

hill.

One of those four things might be a row, which opens up the front side of the body, kind of going back to what we started this chat with. ⁓ And I knew I was kind of onto something with Rinny, with Marinda Carfrae, because Rinny was like, I will take 15 minutes off my run in order to do some strength work at the end of a session.

in order to do some training work at the end of the

session. And that was a really good decision. And I was like, this is good, she's choosing this. She's art. She's super cool, but she knows herself better than anyone. She has the most beautiful running. She's floating. It's just like I just could watch her run all day, every day. Rinny is a very elastic athlete

Wow.

and that was a really good decision. And I was like, this is good, she's choosing this, you know, so she's hard. I mean, she's super cool, but she knows herself better than anyone.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And she has the most beautiful running. Like she's like floating. It's just like, I just could watch her run like all day, every day. It's beautiful.

True true.

Rinny is a very elastic athlete.

She's very, very bouncy. It's kind of the standard we want everyone to have. Yeah.

Hmm

Yes, so

what's Rini run? In my

what's Rinni run? In my mind.

⁓ Rinny is,

mind.

So if we have to accept that nutrition is part of the equation of endurance sports, the easier we can make you ⁓ elastic. So if you take your hand and put it on your chest and you pound your middle finger into your chest, that takes a lot of energy. It's muscular energy. But if you pull it away and just let it snap, that's elastic energy. That's fascia. And it's a lot less expensive.

So if you take your hand and put it on your chest and pound your middle finger into your chest, it takes a lot of energy. It's muscular energy. But if you pull it away and just let it snap.

That's elastic energy, that's fosha. And it's a lot less expensive

Mm-hmm.

Like you don't need as many carbohydrates to run with elastic energy. So if you get a little behind or you struggle a little bit getting nutrition in, the more we can get you bouncy. And we do a lot of agility training. ⁓ Funny story, was working, I work with Rudy Von Berg. He's number six in the world, long course triathlon. Rudy has a relatively long ⁓

than it would be with many carbohydrates to run with elastic energy. So if you get a little behind or you struggle little bit getting nutrition in, the more we can get you bouncing. We do a lot of agility training. Funny story, I working, I worked with Rudy on for, he's number six in the world on long course triathlon. Rudy has a relatively long,

ground contact time on his running.

So we're working this year, especially as the advancement of the men's long course is getting faster and faster. So we need, we think we can help Rudy by getting him a little bit, become a little bit more elastic. So we've doing a bunch of agility with him, just footwork and in and out. I use the ladder, I use hurdles, but it's agility and he's playing tennis, which is really fun too. So the, he's like, I need less plyometrics cause my legs are trashed right now. And I'm like, dude, we haven't even started.

Wow.

Plyometrics is a whole other category, but quickness, you know, it's neurological and it's just, it's a feeling and we're trying to get him attracted to that feeling. Cause he's such a good athlete that I think once he starts getting it and he's got a new coach. And so that's really exciting cause he's training a little bit snappier. so yeah, we'll watch Rudy here in 2026 and see if he looks a little different.

You

You

Yeah, we will. And I'm reflecting back on the podcast that you did on the training science podcast. ⁓ And one of the messages I believe you also said was around being a strength and conditioner. was how you go about making things fun. Just there you go. Classic example. You just demonstrated there with Rudy where you threw tennis in there. I just love how creative you are as a strength trainer. I'm sorry to...

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

I know it's not about strength trainers, this podcast, but again, yeah, I love your methods. It's so cool.

It means a lot when they show up and they're excited to be there.

More fun.

Hahaha!

What's the connection between better movement patterns and injury prevention? Can you walk us through how poor movement might lead to runner's knee or cyclist's lower back pain?

Totally.

Yeah, so to start that conversation, you have to understand what optimal looks like. So your lower leg, your tibia should have a gentle internal rotation in its landing. Your ankles need to not be locked up. If your ankles are locked up, your talus can get stuck in the front side of the ankle. So we need this nice, easy, flowy foot.

Hmm.

going all, when you first look at somebody and the way they stand, and I know we were gonna talk about assessment and how you can just look at, like everybody can do this right now, just stand up, look down at your feet, and the bottom line is, your feet turned out? And if they are, it's a pretty good guess that your lateral hip is pretty tight. So your external rotators.

are a little bit, your fascia is wrapping to the outside. We know that lower body function should wrap to the inside. being able to, I use foundation training, Dr. Eric Goodman. It's a beautiful function and form. It takes very little energy to anchor in. So we'll put the big toes touching, the heels apart, the knees touching.

And that is a very uncomfortable position from somebody who spends a lot of time on the bicycle because we know for truth that the bicycle causes external rotation in the hips. And that's why cyclists don't have to get off the bike and go for a run. Like if you watch some of the top cyclists in the world run, it's not a pretty thing. It's not really, that's for sure. But that's because their whole lower bodies is...

that the bicycle causes external rotation in the hips. And that's why cyclists don't have to get off the bike and go for a run.

torqued into external rotation. So we can accept what gravity and ground is going to give us. Gravity is not going away, so it's a constant. And we look at what it does to the body. And when you get stuck into external rotation, your internal rotators start to fight. So you get tight adductors, tight internal rotators, tight external rotators, and nobody's moving. So when we want the hips to decouple in right side, left side, we want to activate the adductors, the inner thigh.

which will then give the lateral part of the hip permission to let go and maybe give us a little bit of length. And we can use foam rollers and balls and different kinds of implements to encourage the outer hip to give us more length. But I use a little bit of a saying that says, if you show me strength, I'll give you length. So let's say the lateral hip says to the internal hip, show me some strength.

So the adductor that is functioning as a tight muscle, which isn't a strong muscle, it's just hanging on for dear life. If we can get the adductors stronger, then the lateral hip is going to go, okay, I'm in the game. Now we're playing ball. But those conversations go on all over the body. So pecs are tight, upper back's like, ooh, there's no strength there. You better give me some, you better give me some strength on the backside of the body.

better give me some strength on the backside of the body

so that I'm not so tight. You strengthen the back, then the front stays open. You strengthen the glutes and the extra rotators in the right conditions, but you have to create the right conditions. That's why it freaks me out so much when people do so much lateral band-waves walking. They're hitting a tight muscle with more stimulus.

so that I'm not so tight here. You strengthen the back, then the front stays open. You strengthen the glutes and the external rotators in the right conditions, but you have to create the right condition. That's why it freaks me out so much when people do so much lateral bandway walking, because they're hitting a tight muscle with more stimulus,

usually with externally rotated feet.

Yeah.

So even if you're not willing to take the time to anchor in and use some of the foundation training principles to activate and strengthen adductors, the inner thigh, we wanna make sure that when you're doing your band walking that your feet are straight or even pigeon-toed just a little bit because pigeon-toed feet will show you length on the outside of the hip.

and

And so a lot of the runners from my, one of my biggest goals when I meet with a high functioning elite athlete is to help them feel a difference right away because they already feel quite good in their very high performance. If I can get them to go from a foot position of external rotation into neutral or even internal rotation, they will feel immediate change in their next run because their hips will be more open.

Hmm.

Wow.

Yeah.

And they usually are like, I want more of that and then I'll come back and then we can go deeper.

I think a lot of people don't even realize that their inner thigh muscles are so tight and weak or not in optimal ⁓ functioning range. They just don't even realize it. Because we've been talking about lazy glutes and stuff, they just focus on glute strength without realizing that

Thank

Yes.

Glutes. Yeah.

No, actually, you need to figure out what's happening with your adopters. So ⁓ really good point.

Yeah, and it's

part of a phase of training that I call pre-flight. So if somebody comes in and they're very, very tight, like if you've gone out and you're, you know what, when I first started riding my bike, everybody was like, be very, very careful because you're going to love it. And you're going to ride out and you're going to keep riding. And you're like, oh damn, now I got to get back. Right? And it's that last 20 or 30 minutes coming back that really does all the damage.

When I first started riding my bike, everybody was like, be very, careful. You're going love it. You're to ride out, and you're going to keep riding. And you're like, oh, now I'm going to go back. And it's that last 20 or 30 minutes coming back that really does help you.

You

because you're no longer hydrated, you're under nutrition, and that's when all the compensations start, and that's when all the tightness starts. That's why good coaches are so exceptional, because they keep you in the parameters of where you should be. Like a lot of us who don't have ⁓ current coaches telling us when and where and how far and how fast to run or ride.

We get ourselves into trouble. So having a coach, even if you're not competing is probably a pretty good idea for progressive overload and avoiding those months, those 20 final 20 minutes that caused the most damage, put us in the most, the worst position. And then we have to get ourselves out of that. So pre-flight, I have 40 or 50 pre-flight sessions on my app and I have.

get ourselves in trouble. So having a coach, even if you're not competing, is probably a pretty good idea for progressive overhaul. And avoiding those final 20 minutes that cause the most damage, put us in the most and the worst position, and then we have to get ourselves out of it. So pre-flight, I have 40 or 50 pre-flight sessions. I want to find out.

over 200 mobility sessions on my YouTube channel totally free. Those are all considered pre-flight. And if you just start doing these pre-flight sessions every morning, so Paul Larson, you asked me about finding time. It's like, you my goal isn't that you do one of my videos every day. My goal is that you learn from the video and you start doing something every day. So I'm pretty...

Yes.

I over-teach, I over-coach, I try to over-explain so that people learn their bodies so that when they really do get in trouble and they need to talk to a physical therapist or a doctor, they're like, my adductors have been tight and now it's torn, you know? Or my hip doesn't work and this is what I'm thinking, what happened? Like, knowing yourself is so important.

That's awesome, Erin. I'm going to, yes, I'm writing it down right now. So yeah, going to check out those pre-flight exercises. yeah, I'm on, and again, back to the routine that I was mentioning. That's just going to be one extra thing that I'm going to add into my routine. So, and I know I'll be able to do it because, yeah, exactly.

Yeah, pre-flip.

And again, back to the routine. That's just going to be one extra thing.

Cool. You'll feel better. It's worth

it. You know, the run is better. The stuff is better. When you feel better, it's worth doing it.

Yeah.

Absolutely.

My head is spinning right now. ⁓ Because I guess the big thing is like, how do you know, unless you have you available? Are we talking about going to a physical therapist who knows what they're talking about? ⁓ How do we know where to start?

Yeah

Well, I feel really lucky. Like I started sharing, I learned, we always have to go back to my roots. I learned from Michelle Dalcourt at the Institute of Motion, all about movement. And Michelle, Canadian boy, lives in San Diego now, but he invented a tool called the Viper.

which stands for vitality, performance, and rejuvenation. And if we can really look at the three most important things, to me, that's the money. The I is just in there because it makes Viper, but vitality. ⁓ And we started talking about loaded movement training and that elasticity in the tissue and durability. And we started talking, because we're Canadian, about hockey players and that the farm kids were the most durable athletes we had.

⁓

when we, you know, and there's so many Canadians that are farmers and they just never got injured. And it was because they were constantly moving in multiple planes of motion. They were running backwards. were carrying a bail in one hand and walking a cow with the other. Like it's all about having a very enriched environment in which to train and not having too many rules. So loaded movement training and being able to move in multiple planes of motion, even though your sport is linear.

which it isn't linear, like running, you're running in a straight line, but your body is rotating all over the place in a straight line. So there's some people that get that and you have to, know, the younger trainers now, they learn so much on the internet. They learn so much on social media. They don't even have the formal programming that we have had coming up.

There's some people that get that. The younger trainers now, learn so much on the internet. They learn so much on social media. They don't even have the formal programming that we have had coming

up. So trainers are kind of hitting this. I just talked to a trainer in San Francisco, a client that's trained with me online, I'm community in person. need hands on eyes on somebody. talked to a trainer certified through the NASM. And I'm going to oversee.

So trainers are kind of hit and miss. I just talked to a trainer in San Francisco. I have a client that's trained with me online and I'm like, you need in-person, you need hands on, eyes on somebody. And I talked to a young trainer certified through the NASM and I'm going to oversee

what they're doing just to make sure that my client doesn't get thrown into Hyrox or CrossFit or something. you know, she's still a triathlete. She's 66 years old. She doesn't need much, but she wants to get into more load.

you know, we need heavier weights as we get older for bone density and for muscle development. And she got a DEXA scan, got a little freaked out. I'm like, I told you, you need more load, you know? So we're in a good place, but I'm gonna oversee it. I started making my stuff available globally, not only through my app, but also through YouTube. I'm a good resource for hands-on, eyes-on in someone's town. ⁓

I'm

I'm happy to do those kinds of things. Looking at their ⁓ background, you know, I always dreamed that in my career as a strength coach that ⁓ athletes and clients would look and care about education. And I don't think they do. It's so sad. Like I know in Canada and in the UK, it's full licensure to be a strength coach.

having to those kinds of things. at their background. I always dreamed that in my career as a strength coach that athletes and clients would look and care about education. And I don't think they do. I know in Canada and the UK, it's a whole nice insure to be a strength coach.

Mm-hmm.

In the United States, it's not, there's no rules.

in the United States. And I think that's kind of sad. It doesn't mean they have to apply them because even if you do the education and tick the box, some trainers just still don't do it. Physical therapists have a little bit of a different jam. If they're taking insurance, they they're protocol driven.

Yeah.

Yeah.

⁓ I think that's very North American. ⁓ When you are being paid by an insurance company, they make you tick boxes and it doesn't allow you to think as freely as a practitioner. In Boulder, mean, Boulder is a very unique town, but people in this town, say if you have to use insurance for your physical therapist, you don't have a very good physical therapist, which I think I don't agree necessarily. And it seems like chiropractors

I think that's very Kenyan, North American. When you are being paid by an insurance company, they make you take boxes. it doesn't allow you to think as a practitioner.

have a little bit more freedom to think outside the box. And that's where, and some of them aren't good either, but physical therapists through foundation training, ⁓ Dr. Goodman is a chiropractor and he's created a beautiful platform for movement and for stability and for decompression of the spine. You know, that's so important that everything starts from your spine.

and how you hold your head and everything goes from the outside of that and let alone how you breathe. Doc Goodman has done a really good job of bringing a lot of breath work into my world for my athletes of all ages and abilities.

There's so much to unpack, but I want to go back to what you said about the Canadian hockey players and them growing up in farms and the loading of the body in different ways just by working through their daily routines and stuff. What worries me, ⁓ especially here, I'm in Texas, that a lot of the youth sports coaches don't have the education.

Armstrong.

And they don't ⁓ think laterally about developing the young athlete into a ⁓ agile athlete, but they single-mindedly just thinks about their sport and not the foundation of a good human movement and ability to move in all directions and quickly. Right? So.

They don't think laterally about developing the young athlete into an agile athlete. But they single-mindedly think about their sport and not the foundation of a good human movement and ability to move in all directions and quickly,

So...

I

don't know where I'm going with this, but I just wondered what are your thinking about the youth sports in general in states and where should the young athletes focus?

It's very well documented with young athletes that variety is everything and variability is everything. I'm from a town of Kara and Adam Goucher, ⁓ Sarah and Brent Vaughn, they're beautiful runners, they're all Olympians and they have children. And they're...

Most important thing, Tim and Reni have three and they're those children dance, play soccer, basketball. And I think what I'm starting to see now that it's been a while and we'll see it with Colt Goucher. And you can remember that name because Colt is going to be a national champion and perhaps an Olympian himself. But when he was young, like 10 years old, he wasn't interested in running at all. And Karen Adam.

And Karen Adam

didn't push him. I think when he figured out that he was really good at it, now he's starting to specialize a little bit more. He's doing cross-country, which is great. It gives him lot of degree. But I think I don't have children. I imagine it's the hardest thing is to keep them.

didn't push him. And I think when he figured out that he was really good at it, now he's starting to specialize a little bit more and he's doing cross country, which is great because it gives him a lot of terrain. But I think I don't have children. I imagine it's the hardest thing is to keep them ⁓

from you need to push back on them sometimes if all they do want want to do is run or if all they want to do is cycle and be careful as a parent that that's not all you want them to do.

You need to push back on them sometimes if all they do want to do is run. Or all they want to do is like, be careful as a parent that that's not all you want them to

do. Make them enjoy all the seasons and they're going to change at puberty anyway. you know, doing as many things as possible. Mirinda Carfrae was a basketball player. Jim grew up in the pool. She's way more coordinated than he is. you know, it's incredible. But they need to play.

you know, make them enjoy all the seasons and, and they're going to change at puberty anyway. So, you know, doing as many things as possible. Marinda Carfrae was a basketball player. Tim grew up in the pool. She's way more coordinated than he is, but you know, it's, it's incredible, but they need to play

Yeah.

and they need to have fun and they need to laugh and they want, need to learn discipline also and go when they're not having that much fun, but.

I think changing the seasons is really, really important. Softball, basketball, all of them. High skill sports.

Mm-hmm.

Couldn't agree more, Erin. had Dr. Arne Gulic on the podcast. Arne just completed an incredible study. It was the first sports science publication in the journal Science. And he said exactly ⁓ the data that he had. was actually across, it wasn't even just ⁓ sports people at the highest level, but it was also chess players.

musicians and scientists, but it was those, the world beaters, weren't the ones that specialized early. They were the ones that specialized late, and they had a variety of experiences that were so broad as they were ⁓ in their youth, and that was the key thing, and it ultimately gave them more resources. ⁓ What's the book? ⁓

and scientists, but it was those, the world beaters, weren't the ones that specialized early, they were the ones that specialized late. had a variety of experiences that were so broad as they were in their youth, and that was the key thing, it ultimately gave them more resources. What's the book?

Is it Range ⁓ by David Epstein? I've forgotten the name of the book, yeah, it was Range. So yeah, ultimately, it gives you more keys to open up later on down the road. yeah, that's a.

Range. Yeah, was range. So yeah, it's ultimately gives you more keys to open up.

Range. Yeah.

Well, and I'll make a note on that with, even with Taylor, Taylor is in the prime and the ascension of, think, a beautiful

triathlon career. She'll come in and I'll just start throwing the football with her. And we play a lot of football and she just laughs and I've got her, we're playing smash ball now too. So little bit of footwork, little bit of brain and it's, it's fun. You know, it's like Rudy with his tennis. It's, it's, it's good. And when you think of the word vitality,

Mm.

You want to be able to jump into a game. Like pickleball to me is like the dumbest thing, but it makes people laugh. Like it's crazy. Like some people don't even move. They stand there and just play ping pong. They're like, oh, you got me. We got to walk all the way back and serve again. But it's got a lot of friendship, socialization, and you're just good enough. it's, it's sport is a blast, but it's a huge part of living.

Yeah.

So how do we get these 40 plus age groupers to do some fun things that don't resemble at all going forward?

I think it's a bell curve. think of everything as a bell curve. So thinking back into college and you figure out where you were gonna get your A, B or C, there's gonna be some people that will never do it. They're just there, just stuck in their ways. And I have actually stopped thinking about them. Then there's another 25 % of people who are thinking about it, but they're not gonna act on it yet. And then they're on the backside of the curve. And then we get over to the top and over on the front side of the curve, they're open.

And so if they can do more preflight, more agility and join a pickleball league or start to play a little bit of soccer or just shoot some hoops with your kid without being nervous that you're gonna hurt your shoulder. But the bottom line is if you're worried that you're gonna hurt your shoulder, you should probably do something about that. And then there's people on the front side of the curve that are already doing it.

Mm-hmm.

And they're the ones that I think that they have a better mood, they have a better approach to training, they probably sleep better, their stress is a little bit better. Like all the things that we know now, sleep is better because we're not so stuck.

Mm-hmm.

Wow. Just to change directions a little bit, but I think we're going to come back to it. You've mentioned in your podcast about hormonal balance through your programs.

How does movement training impact an athlete's hormones and why should everyday athletes care about that?

You know, it's really about the setup. It's the setup for the future, being able to get under heavy load. So we, we know that the classic hormonal response that we're usually talking about is testosterone and adrenaline and that you need to move really, really well to get under load in my world. So if you're not moving well, I don't use heavy load to get you to move well. can use light load and moderate load to get you to move better.

but when it comes to like 100 % of your body weight or I measure a lot of things, I know the percentages that I shoot for. So again, going back to Dr. Attia, we're gonna look at three times 10 on the hex bar of your own body weight. And once that's comfortable, I consider us, we're now lifting heavy.

The back squat, I do back squat, which I don't much, but it's usually 70 to 80 % of your body weight. And there's a whole chain of that kind of stuff. So ultimately, I am a strength coach and I do want to get people under heavy load because I do think that that is the ultimate performance enhancer. It's just a matter of when you get under the heavy load.

because I do think that that is the ultimate performance in the industry. It's just a matter of when you get it all in.

And I've worked with some ultra runners, arguably one of the best of all time right now. And we worked together for an entire year. She did not lift any heavy weights, but she noticed a lot of, she felt much better. And here in year two, I've got her a hex bar, I've got her a barbell and up to then she had only lift 45 pounds kettlebell. So ultimately to get a full hormonal response, we're like a testosterone or an

with some ultra runners, arguably one of the best of all time right now. And we worked together for an entire year. She did not lift any heavy weights. But she noticed a lot of, she felt much better in here and here too. I've got her at Hex bar, I've got her Mar-Vell. And up to then she had a hold of 35 pounds.

Ultimately to get a whole hormonal response, working through like a testosterone or

an internal response just from doing something we haven't done before, mostly the testosterone, it has to be heavy. So we can get a nice happy response from holistic agility and usually a little bit of a smile.

You can get an adrenaline response just from doing something you haven't done before, but mostly the testosterone, it has to be heavy. So we can get a nice happy response from ballistic agility and usually a little bit of smile.

You know, you've talked about training for life, and this is kind of where you were just going with this, and a healthy longevity. How does movement training in your 30s, 40s, and 50s sets you up for success well into later years?

less wear and tear on one line of movement. So we talk about repetitive motion injury. If we can mix that up and add more variability and variety into the training program, like structured training program with more variety, you're gonna have less wear and tear. Like it makes me so sad when people are, I mean, I used to argue, are you really bone on bone? Is your knee really that bad? Like some of them really are because they never,

ran backwards and they never ran sideways or they never ran curves like a snake ⁓ and they really do need a new knee. So if we can avoid that for people in their 30s and 40s and 50s by working in a multi-planar environment

in their 30s and 40s and 50s by working in a multi-planet environment,

that's going to be good news. Same thing with hips. Like think about why does a hip really deteriorate unless it's really genetic. And that's, there's, there's some people that that's just like, thank God for new hips because they're genetically challenged. But there's a lot of people that just got stuck in that external rotated position. They spent a decade in that position and they just kept running and

that's gonna be good news. Same thing with hips. Think about why does a hip really deteriorate unless it's really genetic? There's some people that just thank God for new hips because they're genetically challenged. There's a lot of people that just got stuck in that external rotating position. They spent a decade in that position and they just kept running.

they just constantly compensated. mean, good athletes are good compensators.

and they're just gonna take what their body gives them. I would say if we can catch those patterns early and reinforce internal rotation into a person stuck in external rotation or introduce extension from the spine from someone who's stuck in flexion, you can see it, the head position. The head position is usually the first giveaway in an older person or even a young person. If your head is out in front of your shoulders, you're stuck in the front side of your body.

your shoulders, you're stuck in the front side of your

body. And the strongest part of your body is the back side of your body. the cue is chin to throat. And head position matters. I watch people in the gym. I can't stand it. It more friends than enemies. I'm saying, Can I just show you one thing? know. Shuffs with their head straight down. People doing planks with their head.

And the strongest part of your body is the backside of your body. it's the cue is chin to throat and, head position matters. watch people in the gym. I can't stand it. I make more friends and enemies saying, can I just show you one thing? know, people doing pushups with their head straight down people, people doing planks with their heads

Yeah.

straight down, like a plank, it should be a head exercise.

So I'll put my hand on the back of somebody's head and say, now push into my hand so that you have a straight line. Think about that arrow position on the bicycle. I mean, you're going to turtle a little bit, but you need, in order to turtle well in TT.

you need to be able to get out of the turtle position too. So you need to be strong through your thoracic and through your cervical spine. But I'm not one to put a bunch of weights on a head and do a bunch of neck extensions either like the old days in football. I think if you just hold yourself in a good position and you're aware, that will get strong exactly how it should get strong.

Mm-hmm.

students

need to be strong for your thoracic and for your cervical spine. But I'm not wanting to a bunch of weights on a head and do a bunch of neck extensions either. I'm doing it like this. But if you hold yourself in a good position and you're aware, that will get strong exactly as it should get strong.

you

Mm-hmm.

Posture, posture and breath, huge. Everything gets held up by that. It's called tensegrity. That's a whole other time.

Yeah

I bet you're having a lot of fun to watch Ironman competitions, especially the run after bike or transition to.

You're having a lot of fun to watch Ironman competitions, especially the run after bike or transition too. I'm very lucky because I'm usually at the front end of the race, so I see the best. But you can see what happens as you go down.

I'm very lucky because I'm usually at the front end of the race. So I see the best, ⁓ but you can see the, you can see what happens as you go down and

Yeah

it's a, it's one of those things. Like if you could help somebody to a comfortable finish in an Ironman, they will invest time in that, especially if they finished uncomfortable at the end of the Ironman. And it's usually going over the front, right? We've all seen it. It's very tight on the front and it's very small.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

you know, they've just succumbed to gravity. So yeah, if you know what that looks like and you wanna try and help somebody use their breath and get tall, that's very fulfilling.

Erin, we're coming up

Ironman would be totally different race if it started with run, bike and then swim.

Yeah, exactly. We probably have different kinds of challenges with that. Probably should go like run, swim, and then bike. People would be like,

Thank

True.

Yeah.

You

on an hour and we want to respect your time. You know, where can people learn more about your programs and what you teach?

You know, I think the most accessible way to connect with me is on my YouTube channel, which I have so much content on there and it's been a real fun ride. don't worry if this morning was Monday and I had 25 people show up for live ⁓ mobility Monday, but by about now.

And if I'm out on course at a race, people are like, oh, Monday Mobility. They might forget my name, but they don't forget Monday Mobility. So that's super fun. So I think the YouTube EC fit strength is it's free. I just, I don't save my best stuff for my app. What I save for my app and for the people that come a little bit closer and into my community is the progressive strength programming. have 15, 30 day programs.

Yeah.

You

on there that people can drop into Training Peaks. I have a nice partnership with Training Peaks. love what they do and how they do it. So I've got $24 a month. You can have full access to everything in my app and programs that I've designed that you can follow along in Training Peaks. And then I do some Custom stuff as well.

Good. Well, Erin, thank you so much for joining us today. We appreciate it.

Awesome,

Thanks for listening today to the Athletes Compass podcast. Take a moment now, subscribe, share, and let's keep navigating this endurance adventure together. Improve your training with the science-based training platform, Athletica, and join the conversation at the Athletica Forum. For Erin Carson, Marjaana Rakai, and Dr. Paul Laursen I'm Paul Warloski and this has been the Athletes Compass podcast. Thank you for listening.