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In the Hot Seat: Robert Franklin Calls Out Kevin Clayton on DEI Leadership
Episode 205 • 21st January 2025 • TonyTidbit: A Black Executive Perspective • TonyTidbit ™
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Episode Audio Link: https://podcast.ablackexec.com/episode/In the Hot Seat: Robert Franklin Calls Out Kevin Clayton on DEI Leadership

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In this episode of the Black Executive Perspective podcast, host Tony Tidbit delves into a compelling conversation on Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion (DEI) with distinguished guests Kevin Clayton, EVP, and Chief Impact Officer of the Cleveland Cavaliers, and Robert Franklin, co-founder of Seven Focus. Together, they unpack the evolving definition and significance of DEI, especially in the wake of George Floyd's murder.

The discussion examines the driving forces behind DEI initiatives, questioning the motivations and qualifications of those leading this critical work. Kevin sheds light on the historical foundations and technical expertise necessary for impactful DEI efforts, while Robert underscores the importance of lived experiences and the urgent need for systemic transformation.

They also address the growing backlash against DEI and propose actionable solutions to ensure these initiatives achieve meaningful, lasting diversity and equity outcomes. This episode offers powerful insights and strategies for individuals and organizations dedicated to creating inclusive, equitable spaces.

▶︎ In This Episode

00:00: Introduction to DEI and Black Representation

00:31: Welcome to the Black Executive Perspective Podcast

01:32: Introducing Today's Esteemed Guests

04:59: Kevin Clayton's Journey in DEI

05:53: The Impact of George Floyd on DEI

10:58: Robert Franklin's Perspective on DEI

13:11: The Value of Lived Experience in DEI

17:03: Challenges in Implementing DEI Strategies

22:03: Corporate America's Response to DEI Post-George Floyd

29:19: Defining Diversity: Differences and Similarities

32:19: Navigating Diversity in Conferences

33:09: The Importance of Similarities and Differences

33:52: Diversity Beyond Black and White

34:27: Addressing Multiple Dimensions of Diversity

34:52: The Weaponization of DEI

37:18: Solutions for DEI Challenges

38:52:The Role of Media and Representation

45:0: Personal Experiences and Business Cases

50:29: The Equity Institute and Future Plans

54:09: Final Thoughts and Call to Action

🔗 Resources

Links and resources mentioned in this episode:

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This episode was produced by TonyTidbit ™ . Copyright © 2024 A BLACK EXECUTIVE PERSPECTIVE LLC. All rights reserved. No part of this podcast may be reproduced without prior written permission. For permissions, email podcast@ablackexec.com .

Transcripts

Kevin Clayton:

When the term diversity post George Floyd was

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:

used, DEI was a code word for black.

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:

And the last thing that I would

say, because it's a pet peeve of

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:

mine, is that we now have begun to

joke about this on a national stage

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by talking about that black job.

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Correct.

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It's like DEI.

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Oh, that's that black job.

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No, no, stop saying that.

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Tony Tidbit: We'll discuss race and how

it plays a factor and how we didn't even

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talk about this topic because we were.

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Welcome to

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a Black Executive Perspective

podcast, a safe space where we

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:

discuss all matters related to race,

especially race in corporate America.

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I'm your host, Tony Tidbitt.

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We are live again at the

University of New Haven, 88.

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7 on the Richter dial.

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We want to thank the University of

New Haven for partnering with the

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Black Executive Perspective Podcast

to talk about this important topic.

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We hope everyone is having

a good time this semester.

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Go Chargers!

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And also, we want to make sure that

you continue To consume our partner's

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:

magazine CODE M magazine Whose

mission is first saving the black

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family by first saving the black man.

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So definitely check them

out at codemagazine.

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com So today is going to be a very

interesting day on a black executive

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perspective podcast Typically we

come on, we have guests, they share

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their stories, but today is going

to be a little bit different today.

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We have Kevin Clayton.

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Who's the EVP and chief impact officer

of the Cleveland Cavaliers and Robert

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Franklin, who's the co founder and

executive educator at seven focus.

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Robert brings his insights and challenges.

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Some of the views Kevin had on.

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Current diversity, equity and inclusion

as discussed in the earlier BEP episode,

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the truth about DEI challenges together,

they'll dive into thoughtful discussion

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on the complexities and the involving

landscape of DEI in today's conversation.

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Organizations.

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So let me tell you a little bit

about both our esteemed guests here.

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Kevin Clayton is the executive vice

president, chief impact officer at

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rock entertainment group and the

Cleveland Cavaliers with previous

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executive roles across various

organizations, including bond source.

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Mercy Health and the U.

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S.

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Tennis Association.

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He founded Jump Ball LLC and began

his career at Procter Gamble.

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Kevin chairs the Greater Cleveland Urban

League and black sports professionals

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and serves on multiple boards, including

United Way of Greater Cleveland.

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Of native of Cleveland, he graduated

from North Carolina Central University

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in Wilmington College, Ohio.

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He captained his basketball

team and is a proud member of

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Kappa Alpha Phi fraternity.

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He has four beautiful daughters

and three grandchildren.

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Kevin Clayton, welcome to a black

executive perspective podcast.

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My brother,

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Kevin Clayton: Tony,

I'm so happy to be here.

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Hopefully you're having

a great day, buddy.

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Tony Tidbit: I'm having a beautiful day.

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It's awesome.

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Let me introduce our

other esteemed guests.

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Robert Franklin, the second.

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He has been leading diversity,

health, equity, and inclusion

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initiatives at Cleveland Hospital,

Colorado, since:

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consultancy services nationwide,

focusing on community engagement.

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His background includes roles such as

such as leading the diversity catalyst

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team at Colorado State University, serving

as a trainer for the city and county of

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Denver and acting as a health advisor.

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Equity officer for the Colorado

Public Health Association.

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As a published author and podcast

hosts, Robert co founded Seven

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Focus with Prismatic LLC, a

company committed to enhancing

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organizational diversity impacts.

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This initiative draws on the belief

that actions today are influenced

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by seven generations of leaders.

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Before aiming to foster learning

and dialogue that lead to a

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meaningful diversity outcomes.

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Robert Franklin II, welcome to a Black

Executive Perspective podcast, my brother.

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Robert Franklin: I

appreciate you having me.

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It's an honor to be here.

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Tony Tidbit: Well, listen, it's an

honor for us to have both of you here.

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You guys have very, very

accomplished backgrounds.

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If there's anybody to talk

about DEI, it's you guys.

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So, and, and we're looking

forward to hearing this

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discussion from both of you guys.

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So, look.

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I'm chomping at the bit to hear from you.

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Are you guys ready to talk about it?

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Kevin Clayton: Absolutely.

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Yep.

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100%.

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Tony Tidbit: Let's talk about it.

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So, let's back up a little bit

for our audience who may not have,

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uh, heard Kevin's, uh, episode.

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The truth about DEI challenges

that was published on July 9th.

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Kevin came on and talked about some of

the, his background in terms of how, when

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he worked at Procter and Gamble back in

the early nineties, how they were doing

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DEI initiatives, how they were making

their business more profitable by reaching

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out and working with other different

groups and DEI at that time point wasn't

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something that was under attack, but

then he also talked about what happened.

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After George Floyd incident, how the

DEI word and all the impact in terms

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of hiring and, and, and, and all the

attacks on DEI kind of took off and

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went sideways after the George Floyd.

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So, I want to play a quick clip of that

episode and then I love to hear from Kevin

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to expand on what he talked about then.

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Kevin Clayton: Doors are being opened

that maybe weren't open before.

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Pledges of money that weren't

there are now given to us.

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And the DEI position, and I'm going to tie

all this back together, the DEI position

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I told you was the hottest in America,

if you were black or a woman, that was

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the qualification to become a senior vice

president or chief diversity officer.

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Tony, I don't know of one other

position that is a real legit position

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in corporate America where your

qualification is your skin color, or your

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gender, or your sexual identification.

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But because people didn't know, and

I'm talking about significant, I'm

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talking about government, education,

business, All in nonprofits, because

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they didn't know what this was about.

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They were like, look, let me

go get a black person and make

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him my chief diversity officer.

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Tony Tidbit: So I still tickle.

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Uh, and obviously I heard it a

million times, but I always laugh

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at that as I laughed in that clip.

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So talk a little bit about what you

were basically articulating at that

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time, Freud, about what was going on

when it came to DEI, uh, opportunities,

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career, the attack after George Floyd.

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Kevin Clayton: I probably erred on

one thing when I made that statement,

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because I actually got into this work

back in, call it the, um, you know,

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early 90s, because I was black, okay?

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I was the highest ranking, um, African

American executive in the sales function

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with Procter Gamble at the time.

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And the whole introduction to

diversity and to clarify one thing,

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there was no E and I, it was not

DEI then, it was just diversity.

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Tony Tidbit: It was just diversity.

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Yeah.

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Kevin Clayton: And therefore I

was chosen not only to lead an

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organization that was responsible for

250 million in sales and 30 people

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running our business in the Southeast.

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It was, well, Kevin, we need you

to also run our DEI program or

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I'm sorry, our diversity work.

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Tony, I didn't have a clue

as to what diversity meant.

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I came to P& G for one purpose.

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And that purpose was to be the best sales

executive that they could develop me into.

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And when the whole conversation of

diversity happened, I began to gravitate

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towards that because I studied and

learned and understood what the power

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of differences and similarities are.

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And therefore, that's

how I got into the work.

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So post George Floyd, it was

just basically accentuated.

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Because so many organizations, as I

said in the clip, it didn't matter what

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industry, so many organizations were

saying, we have to go do something and

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that something is we either need to start

a DEI team or program, or what we need

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to do is enhance the one that we have.

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But again, the only qualification,

generally speaking, and I know

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this because I was also part of

a number of people who came to

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steal me away from the calves.

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The general qualification was.

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Are you a person of color?

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Are you a person of a of a

different dimension of diversity

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other than being a white male?

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So my point is that if the work

is to be taken serious, then you

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would need serious qualifications.

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So, yes, there are

certifications to do the work.

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I don't know of a I don't know the

university and Brother Franklin

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can can talk to this where

there's an undergraduate degree.

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In DEI, there are certifications and

there's some post graduate kinds of

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studies you can do, but we don't hire

anybody in our organization without

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having some expertise in the expert in

the area in which we're hiring them for.

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So that was my point, right?

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It was really, it wasn't a commitment

and there's data now that would show

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any given day you can pick up the paper.

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You can look online to see how

many organizations are disbanding

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their DEI departments and those

folks that rose to the top.

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Based on yesterday, they were a

communications manager and now

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they're chief diversity officer,

no longer have those positions.

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Tony Tidbit: So before I get

Robert's, uh, uh, response, I just

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want to make sure I'm clear here.

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Cause you said you erred on one thing.

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What was the thing that you erred on?

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Kevin Clayton: Because I talked about post

George Floyd, when I should have said,

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even at the beginning of this work, the

credential of getting into the work was.

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Are you something other than a white male?

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And that was the, that was

the necessary credential.

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Not do you have expertise in managing

leading and leveraging DEI or

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diversity or whatever it might be.

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So that was a mistake I made.

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And that's why I went back to when I

got this work, it was an add on to the

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fact that I was running a significant

business and it was, ah, Kevin, you're

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the highest black in our organization.

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You can also leave the diversity work.

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Tony Tidbit: Got it.

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Got it.

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Got it.

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Got it.

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Okay.

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Thanks for that, my friend, Robert,

what's your thoughts on that?

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Robert Franklin: Oh, so, so many.

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And I think you only have like an

hour plan for our conversation today.

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So this is a part one of six or seven.

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Uh, and, and I appreciate the opportunity

seriously to be able to have a

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conversation like this, because the

black executive, uh, perspective, Is

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unique, not only in the podcast space,

but in corporate America in general.

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Like look at us, right?

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I don't, I don't know that I've

actually had this opportunity to

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have a conversation like this.

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So Kevin and Tony, uh, thank

you for the opportunity.

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And it was that clip.

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Actually.

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I'm surprised you picked that clip, Tony.

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That was the clip for me that I was like,

I started to take notes while listening to

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the episode, because right out the gate.

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Kev, the thing that struck me is those

women, uh, women of color, those people

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who were chosen did have expertise.

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They, they did.

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I don't know all of them, right?

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They, they do, they did have expertise.

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They do have, uh, skills, knowledge,

and abilities that by and far were

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ignored up until the moment when

this, uh, our world had this, uh,

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social reckoning, if you, if you will.

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Tony Tidbit: So Robert, hold on

one second, cause I just want

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to, cause I want you before you

go, I just want to make sure.

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So, Kevin saying, because I want

to be, and I want you to expound

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on what you said, Kevin saying that

the people, including himself, back

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in 19, early 90s, when, when, um,

when Proctor Campbell said, Hey,

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you, you are a black leader, right?

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Take over diversity.

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Okay.

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And so at the end of the day, he didn't,

you know, he had a lot of skills.

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Okay.

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He was an executive at the organization,

but when it came to diversity and

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building out something, right, that's

going to provide and, you know, uh,

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uh, increase, you know, uh, different

people's voices in the organization.

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That's going to blah, blah, blah.

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He's what he was saying is there was

no skills specifically people going

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to school to learn those things.

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Now you're saying.

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That goes and use women

specifically that there was skills.

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So I just want to be I would be

when you say there was skills.

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What skills are you talking about?

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I just want to be clear because

I don't want to miss that part.

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Robert Franklin: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Being a black man, black woman,

woman of color, being a person with

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a marginalized identity in the United

States of America and alive at that

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same time is in itself a demonstration

of knowledge, skills and abilities.

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Code switching is a skill is a skill

set to be able to move up in the ranks

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in corporate America for people to

say, Hey, Kev, uh, you do this thing

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really well, and we've got this other

opportunity that our organization needs

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to prioritize for one reason or another.

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We think you might be

able to do that there.

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You Kev, you said, uh, there aren't too

many positions, a CEO positions where.

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because of your gender identity

and your racial identity that you

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can get that kind of position.

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The president of the United States

was a position solely segregated

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for white men for hundreds of years.

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Nevermind CEOs of fortune 500

companies, leaders of schools

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and medicine, blah, blah, blah.

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So.

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Yeah, gender and racial identity

and probably sexual orientation

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has mattered for a long, long, and

still does for a long, long time.

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So, Tony, the point that I was making

about being a black dude, being the

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black dude in the space, there's tons

of expertise that's there and skills and

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talents that they probably saw in you.

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And because you're black, they were

able to name that because you were

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one of, I'm guessing, not that many.

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Now, I will also honor.

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That I haven't been in what we call the D.

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E.

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I.

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The D.

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The D.

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E.

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:

I.

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Inclusion spaces for as

long as you have, Kevin.

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So I know that things look different.

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Sort of, because we have a word for

diversity and there's, it's a work place.

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Now it is a, there's this equity that we

have metrics and stuff like that, but.

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In the 90s, there were only so many of

us that were even allowed to be in and

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around the C suite without having to clean

up the trash cans or wipe off the boards.

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And so.

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In that moment to be able to have somebody

to have a conversation as a different

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perspective than the people who was

in the spaces of the whole time around

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the C suite table, the boardroom table.

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That is what we call diversity.

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Who else was going to do it.

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There was only one of y'all there.

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I wasn't there but you know there

was only so many of y'all there.

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And so, yeah, your blackness

probably did matter.

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And just like all those people that

you were naming, the thing that I

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had to throw the flag on was that

those people had a lot of talent.

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And the fact that those organizations are

disbanding and they're going away, it's

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more than just did they not have skills

and abilities to lead the organization.

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There's an entire wave of people who

don't want to talk about race, gender,

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sexual orientation, and those dimensions

of difference that you may name.

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Thank you.

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Absent of the talent of those folks.

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So that's why I had to throw the flag,

and that's why I was really hoping

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that we could have this conversation.

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BEP Narrator: If you like what you hear

and want to join us on this journey

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of making uncomfortable conversations

comfortable, please subscribe to a

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Black Executive Perspective podcast

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Hit subscribe now to stay connected

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inspire, and lead the change.

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Tony Tidbit: Got it, got it, got it.

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So, respond to that, Kevin.

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Kevin Clayton: So, Robert, in

preparation, I knew there would only be

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two things that you could disagree on.

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One of which might have been definitional

as to even how we define this work.

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And I'm going to go back on that.

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And then the second thing was going

to be around the whole implementation

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of what this work was about.

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There's only two things.

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So, um, yeah, a couple of things.

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Please don't mistake the lived experience

of any individual as a, his skillset.

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My lived experience as a black man did

not get, not put me in a position to be

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able to sit down and do an organizational

assessment of what the conditions were

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to do a gap analysis by compensation.

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It didn't provide me an opportunity

to understand what are the nuances in

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creating an environment that is inclusive.

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What are the nuances of being able to

implement a diversity scorecard that

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connects to salary that are based on on

metrics that tied back into performance?

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It didn't give me the skill set to be

able to analyze a consumer marketing

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base to see where the gaps are.

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And then how do I go out to communities

to build the to fill the gap?

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Between where we were actually

penetrating and where we weren't.

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Also, it did not give me the opportunity.

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It did.

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I didn't have the skillset to be

able to manage an organization

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where I had to make white males.

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feel included, just like I did have

to make black folks feel included,

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just like I had to make women and

people and others feel included.

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My lived experience only said that

that gave me the passion to be able to

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understand certain things through the

lens of Kevin Clayton's lived experience.

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That's not a skill set.

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So to say that these brothers

and sisters had the skills, They

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couldn't have had the skills.

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One, because the industry is too new.

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That's saying that because I'm a

consumer, I can go into marketing.

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Nope, not at all.

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Now your comment around the, the, and I

said, I know you're saying this tongue

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in cheek, maybe not, but your comment

around the, the president of the United

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States, that job was based off of race.

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I categorically and absolutely

disagree with that comment.

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Just because white males have always

been the ones that sat in that seat.

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There was never any type

of questionnaire around.

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Well, if you're a white

male, you can do this job.

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It had nothing to do with that.

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Now I don't think skillset and

intelligence and any of that have

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anything to do with being a president

as a different conversation.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Different conversation.

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It wasn't, that wasn't the requirement.

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And I'm telling you.

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Flat out because I was one and because

I talked to brothers and sisters all

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across the globe doing this work They

were only selected because of their,

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their, their dimension of diversity.

352

:

It wasn't, Hey, can you

sit down and explain to me?

353

:

And let me just give you an example.

354

:

I had an opening for a number two person.

355

:

I was hiring for a senior director.

356

:

I had people literally, as you can

imagine, one because of sports,

357

:

but because of the work I had over

five to 600 people respond day one.

358

:

And when I looked through the

resumes, I had everything from college

359

:

professors to coaches to people that

had some experience in doing the work.

360

:

I narrowed the field down by asking

them to fill out one question.

361

:

Give me an example of when you

have ever implemented a DEI plan

362

:

or strategy in an organization.

363

:

I narrowed that field from 500

to about 50 really quickly.

364

:

And those 50 did not have the experience

of ever implementing, creating and

365

:

implementing a full fledged plan.

366

:

I'm not talking about an HR plan.

367

:

I'm not talking about a hiring plan.

368

:

I'm talking about a full organizational

plan that's integrated into an

369

:

organization that affects every

single person in that organization.

370

:

That is a skill that can only be gotten

by having experiences or going through

371

:

certifications or what have you.

372

:

So that's my push back to that.

373

:

And I get the, yes, my life experience

brings me a certain set, but this is

374

:

a specific piece that, I mean, you,

you know, this is the work you do.

375

:

It is.

376

:

And hold

377

:

Tony Tidbit: on one second.

378

:

Well, hold on one thing, Robert.

379

:

I just want to, I want to ask Kevin

something, then I'll let you go.

380

:

So, so Kevin, I hear that, right.

381

:

I definitely hear that point.

382

:

Right.

383

:

Especially.

384

:

And I love the way you said, Hey, out

of 500 applicants, I was able to wheel

385

:

down to 50 by asking him, had they ever

put a plan together to Totally get it.

386

:

That makes total sense.

387

:

And implemented it.

388

:

And implemented it.

389

:

Right.

390

:

Let me ask you this though.

391

:

How many companies had actually put

a plan together and implemented it?

392

:

Right.

393

:

After the, just to be fair, right.

394

:

Just to be fair.

395

:

Cause it goes to your point earlier.

396

:

They just, Hey, you black or you a

woman, this is the qualification.

397

:

So if they didn't have a plan, Okay.

398

:

To be fair to company, because we know

a lot of them, a lot of these people

399

:

who took these roles, they had no tools.

400

:

They had no KPIs for success.

401

:

They had nothing because the company

didn't know how to put it together.

402

:

Would you agree with that?

403

:

Kevin Clayton: So Tony, what I would

agree with is That the companies

404

:

were looking for help and support.

405

:

And I'm talking post George Floyd.

406

:

I'm talking post George Floyd as well.

407

:

They were looking for help and their

motivation though, for the most part, for

408

:

the most part, their motivation was not, I

want to implement a strategic D and I plan

409

:

that's going to be sustainable over time.

410

:

And Robert, we're going to build

out your department to X, Y, Z.

411

:

It was white guilt.

412

:

From the standpoint of they saw a

black man being killed for the first

413

:

time by law enforcement officers

and you and I, all three of us know

414

:

that that happens on the daily.

415

:

So, therefore, they were

like, we have to do something.

416

:

We heard this thing called D.

417

:

I was hot.

418

:

Let's go out and find these

folks and it was to appease.

419

:

The black community, it was not to

actually develop a str, a strategy

420

:

that was going to be organizationally

operationalized, so that now it's

421

:

just how we go about doing things.

422

:

It was in response.

423

:

Tony Tidbit: So that's my point though.

424

:

They didn't even have a plan.

425

:

It was more, it was guilt.

426

:

It was a response, right?

427

:

So they, so, so, okay.

428

:

We're on the same page, Robert.

429

:

Robert Franklin: Yeah.

430

:

So you were absolutely right, Kev,

that there was only two things.

431

:

I think I only had two notes that I

wanted to arm wrestle about today.

432

:

And so that was definitely one of them.

433

:

And so I want to make sure to keep it 100.

434

:

We're on the black executive

perspective podcast.

435

:

Uh, the idea that Corporate America

decided, and we know who's in charge

436

:

of Corporate America, Corporate America

decided we need to do something different.

437

:

So from Tide and Walmart, the NBA, the

NFL, everybody was like, You know what?

438

:

We need to see more black

and brown and diverse bodies.

439

:

They did the whole thing.

440

:

And so they had to create that plan.

441

:

Who in the world is going to

have the voice of the black

442

:

market, the black market?

443

:

Then somebody who identifies as black

because prior to not just prior to

444

:

George Floyd being murdered, but prior

to the:

445

:

There wasn't even that much of a black

market to be thought of in the first

446

:

place Um outside of the shucking and

jiving and the and uh, newport's,

447

:

uh, cool Cigarettes where black men

especially were considered in the black

448

:

family wasn't even a thing Um prior

to the cosby's generation if you will

449

:

Tony Tidbit: or colt 45.

450

:

Robert Franklin: Thank you

451

:

Tony Tidbit: billy d williams,

452

:

Robert Franklin: right so when you and

you I think we are both going to be

453

:

diametrically opposed in this one idea

that lived experience is expertise.

454

:

Now, being a black dude by itself, does

that help you be able to do a gap analysis

455

:

in that way for that company or to lead

a, what is now known as a DEI, uh, metric?

456

:

Probably not.

457

:

Do you know things because of

your black maleness in this

458

:

country that nobody else knows?

459

:

Cause you are Kevin Clayton.

460

:

Absolutely.

461

:

And that's why I would hire you.

462

:

To run this thing that has never

been done before, because there's

463

:

something that I recognize in you

that you have that I don't have.

464

:

And I'll tell you this for just

me, those of those folks who

465

:

know the work that I have done.

466

:

I often hire with that in mind.

467

:

What is it that you add to the work that

I that we're doing as a department or as

468

:

an organization that I don't have, and

that's a perspective, a lived experience

469

:

that I value that doesn't show up.

470

:

In your alma mater that

doesn't show up on your resume.

471

:

And in fact, when you ask that question,

Kevin, if I, if it was my first DEI,

472

:

uh, Uh, appointments, you know, and

you're asking me, okay, Robert have,

473

:

what have you done in an organization?

474

:

I'm going to tell you about, uh, how I

did that in a club or in, um, the boy

475

:

scouts or in JROTC, because one, I'm

going to arm wrestle you in your own

476

:

interview about you said organization.

477

:

And those are all organizations,

even though I wasn't the one

478

:

that was in charge of it.

479

:

And then two, I'm going to

challenge you like, well,

480

:

you're hiring for this position.

481

:

What have you done in this space?

482

:

But what all that to say, I do value

lived experience and I think that those

483

:

people and I was more concerned about

those folks that you were talking about

484

:

that got the jobs just right out the gate

in:

485

:

something to offer beyond those things

that they were chosen for point taken,

486

:

they were chosen because of what they look

like on the, on the company photo, right?

487

:

Or in the company check boxes.

488

:

And they brought something that that

organization didn't have to Tony's point

489

:

for an organization that wasn't really

sure what they were going to be doing.

490

:

And the reason why we don't see so many

of those programs now and those are

491

:

those people in those spaces now this

because we have a few organizations

492

:

left that actually meant it when they

said black lives matter that actually

493

:

meant it when they said we stand

with these marginalized identities.

494

:

And that's, that's a

whole other conversation.

495

:

Then, uh, can we stand on

that, that lived experience?

496

:

And the last thing I'll say

before I go back on mute.

497

:

The, the president of the

United States of America.

498

:

There were rules and laws on the

books that didn't, that prevented,

499

:

that prohibited certain people from

participating, even in the process, based

500

:

on their racial identity, and well, even

in their gender identity, if we think

501

:

about the women's suffrage movement.

502

:

So, while today, that doesn't exist,

and there isn't, I don't, I've never

503

:

applied to be President of the United

States, but I don't know if they checked

504

:

the box or not, while that, while that

may or may not exist, it's very clear.

505

:

That as a black man in the United States

in the:

506

:

would argue in 2000, trying to, we can

ask Jesse Jackson, uh, Colin Powell, that

507

:

race matters and mattered in even that

position, even if we weren't screaming

508

:

in out loud the same way we were in 1860.

509

:

So, you're right that

those are the two things.

510

:

There's two things that we are,

we're, we're on different places

511

:

on, but I, I will get with

you on, on this thing though.

512

:

I, I will say.

513

:

You in the work that you've done over

time and certainly in over at the Cavs,

514

:

you have put into place work and space

where people can start to see themselves.

515

:

Uh, and, and that's not only

diversity, but that's inclusion.

516

:

And I think you're also

working toward equity.

517

:

And so I don't want this to be like

two black dudes arguing over something

518

:

that is not going to get us to progress

because what I do think is that you

519

:

open space over there at the Cavs

for people to say, you know what?

520

:

On this language access thing, I

know a little bit about a little bit.

521

:

And so I'm going to go up to

Kevin and say, like, look, I know

522

:

what's going on here because of my

community was happening with us.

523

:

And that I hope you're going to go, you

know, you have that lived experience.

524

:

And I want to grow you because I see that

that potential in you, which wouldn't

525

:

have happened if you hadn't been tapped

in the:

526

:

Tony Tidbit: So, Kevin, I'm gonna let

you respond and I want to move on to

527

:

something else, but go ahead, my friend.

528

:

Yeah.

529

:

Kevin Clayton: So, so, so Robert,

I actually, we're not as far off as

530

:

perhaps you rolled into this conversation

thinking we were, I mean, cause you

531

:

talked about throwing a flag, you talking

about objecting, I mean, there were a

532

:

couple of words you, if there was a,

if it would have been live, I'd have

533

:

called into the show, I'm telling you.

534

:

Yep.

535

:

So, so here's what I would offer you.

536

:

How do you define diversity?

537

:

One word difference.

538

:

Diversity.

539

:

Okay.

540

:

Yep.

541

:

And brother, I'm not trying to trump

you and I'm not using that word.

542

:

I would just, I'm just saying

it from a bit with standpoint.

543

:

Okay.

544

:

I would add differences and similarities.

545

:

Okay.

546

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554

:

Kevin Clayton: And that is one of the

first things that folks that whenever

555

:

I talk about it, because our definition

is a collective mixture of our fans, our

556

:

team members, our sponsors, characterized

by both differences and similarities.

557

:

I go through this whole exercise

and it's a training exercise.

558

:

Let me give you an example.

559

:

Um, and I've had a consulting

company under jump ball.

560

:

One of my clients was.

561

:

I Omega and you brothers may remember

back in the day where we had the

562

:

kind of the tower computers and we

had this little drive on the side

563

:

and you put this drive in the side

and that was a memory drive floppy.

564

:

Yeah, yeah, well, no, these

are the cartridges now.

565

:

It wasn't this.

566

:

These are the cartridges and what it was.

567

:

They were made by I Omega and

they were located in Ogden.

568

:

So they brought me on, they flew

me out from Atlanta to Salt Lake

569

:

City, go up an hour or so to

Ogden and I walk in the building.

570

:

I'm in the boardroom and literally

there's 12 seats around the

571

:

boardroom and they're there.

572

:

I'm coming in to give an executive

briefing on what diversity was.

573

:

So I looked around the room

and I asked a question.

574

:

I said, do we have diversity in this room?

575

:

They looked at me and the CEO

kind of whispered and said,

576

:

well, Kev, if we had diversity in

the room, you wouldn't be here.

577

:

Ha ha ha.

578

:

Okay.

579

:

So I'm like, okay, well,

let me test your assumption.

580

:

And again, Robert, I'm going back to our

definitions of you saying differences,

581

:

me saying differences and similarities.

582

:

So with that, I asked him, I said,

well, let me check what you just said.

583

:

Let me just check in with you all.

584

:

How many of you would

consider yourself white males?

585

:

They all raise their hand.

586

:

How many of you are Mormons?

587

:

They all raise their hand.

588

:

How many of you are married?

589

:

Half of them raise their hand.

590

:

How many of you have kids?

591

:

Another percentage raised their hands.

592

:

How many of you attended

a four year school?

593

:

A certain percentage.

594

:

I went through six or

seven different questions.

595

:

And what they realized, and honestly,

they, they were, the questions I

596

:

asked, some of them were like, I

never knew that about you, Johnny.

597

:

I never knew that about you.

598

:

And here's the point.

599

:

And I asked him, I said, now let

me go back and ask the question.

600

:

Do you have diversity in the room?

601

:

They were like, yeah,

we do have diversity.

602

:

Here's my point.

603

:

If you, the three of us were to go to

any kind of conference and we didn't,

604

:

and there were some people we thought we

knew, but most people we didn't know, you

605

:

know, that feeling when you walk in that

conference room and you're looking around.

606

:

Aren't we looking around for somebody that

we know that we know when we go sit out?

607

:

That's right.

608

:

And the reason why is that whole

feeling of being alone and different

609

:

is like it's an awkward feeling.

610

:

No matter how, no matter how flamboyant

any of us might be and personable, we

611

:

go to look for that person that we, and

it doesn't have to be a black person.

612

:

It can just be somebody that we know

so we can feel a sense of comfort.

613

:

And that gives us some sense of safety

around, Oh, there's:

614

:

But I, but I know Robert.

615

:

So here's the point.

616

:

When we think about similarities and

different differences and similarities,

617

:

it's those similarities that connect us

that even allow us to have a conversation,

618

:

and that is why diversity to us is

both, and it's not just differences.

619

:

Differences allow me to learn, but the

similarities and this exercise I go

620

:

through, I ask a series of questions to

the most random person in the room, and

621

:

I connect with them on different things.

622

:

Because what it does, it gives us that

feeling that I said that we have when

623

:

we walk into that ballroom of okay,

well, I know something about you.

624

:

So with that, it's not about differences.

625

:

It's both differences and similarities.

626

:

So how I connect that and the reason

I asked you the question is that

627

:

a lot of this work that we now do,

diversity is a code word for black.

628

:

Yeah, correct.

629

:

And, and that is not what it,

that's, I mean, it can't be.

630

:

I have white males that walk up

and down these halls and they

631

:

would, you'd ask him right now,

are you part of our diversity plan?

632

:

They would say, of course we are.

633

:

Yes, we are now to your point in

Tony, I'm going to move off of this.

634

:

Is the white community, are they the ones

that are in the biggest need right now?

635

:

No.

636

:

So what we do is we identify across

multiple dimensions of diversity.

637

:

Whenever something comes up, let

it be women's reproductive rights.

638

:

Let it be the attack

on the black community.

639

:

Let it be the attack on the

Jewish community, the Palestinian

640

:

community, whatever it is.

641

:

We make statements and connect with them.

642

:

And it's not just making statements.

643

:

We go to those communities

and say, how can we help you?

644

:

Right?

645

:

Because it's all of us

collectively in a community.

646

:

It's not just one or the other.

647

:

So when the term diversity

post George Floyd was used, D.

648

:

E.

649

:

I was a code word for black.

650

:

And the last thing that I would say,

because it's a pet peeve of mine,

651

:

is that we now have begun to joke

about this on a national stage.

652

:

By talking about that black

job, it's like D D E I.

653

:

Oh, that's that black job.

654

:

No, it didn't.

655

:

No.

656

:

Stop saying that.

657

:

All we're going to do is push people

further away from what needs to happen.

658

:

And that is to integrate all of us

into a space that allow us to be

659

:

productive in a community at work on

a college campus or what have you.

660

:

Final thing.

661

:

The reason why I said that

we're not that far away.

662

:

It's really nuanced.

663

:

Yes, my lived experiences have helped

me to be able to do the work that I that

664

:

I do, but my lived experience weren't

the technical pieces and the expertise

665

:

that allowed me to be successful.

666

:

And that was it.

667

:

Yes.

668

:

I just said we need to elevate and we

need to provide black folks, the same

669

:

level of training that we did when we

brought in a business analytics team.

670

:

They didn't know what

the hell they were doing.

671

:

We trained them.

672

:

We gave them experiences.

673

:

We didn't just say they were expendable.

674

:

And when the budget got

tight, cut them off.

675

:

Tony Tidbit: Buddy, before I go to

my next spot, you, you got anything

676

:

you want to say to that, Robert?

677

:

Robert Franklin: Oh, there's

so many, so many things.

678

:

So you're absolutely right.

679

:

We are a lot closer and.

680

:

I just value your perspective.

681

:

I value where you're where you're

at with the passion for it.

682

:

And even though that and I like

the cows definition, the diversity

683

:

is differences and similarities.

684

:

I like I like that.

685

:

I'm not going to I'm not

even going to take it.

686

:

What you named is so crucial that.

687

:

The weaponization and you said that in

the pod with Tony before the weaponization

688

:

of DEI has pushed us all again right back

to, it's just black and not black and

689

:

that code word that's being used, which

is why it's being thrust through all

690

:

the media, not just our political media.

691

:

And so.

692

:

The word diversity, the word equity,

the word, the D E I acronym, I've been

693

:

pushing for us to get a, get rid of it.

694

:

Cause what you said was that we need to

get to a place where we all have access to

695

:

do the things, to thrive and stay alive.

696

:

And so I don't need an acronym for

us to be able to get to that piece.

697

:

And then all of us need that, that part.

698

:

Go ahead, Tony.

699

:

Tony Tidbit: No, no,

no, that's good stuff.

700

:

I'm going to come back to you, my brother.

701

:

I want to move to where we,

um, Talk solutions here.

702

:

I love to hear from your standpoint,

Robert and, and, and this, what,

703

:

what Kevin just talked about

kind of kicks this segment off.

704

:

Okay.

705

:

Is that, and you just

spoke to it is weaponized.

706

:

It means it's, it's, it's,

it's dog whistled now.

707

:

Uh, um, They're, they're, they're, they're

cutting back on a lot of these, uh,

708

:

divisions or departments and companies.

709

:

You know, I read Harley

Davidson, which I didn't believe.

710

:

I couldn't believe they had a

DEI thing, but it doesn't matter.

711

:

A lot of companies, Microsoft, a lot of

companies are cutting their DEI workforce.

712

:

They're just cutting back from

the pressure because of the

713

:

DEI dog whistle and stuff.

714

:

So I want to hear from you,

buddy, based on all that.

715

:

What do you think from

a solution standpoint?

716

:

You've been in the space.

717

:

Okay.

718

:

For a long period of

time, talk, talk to us.

719

:

I want to hear from Kevin

too, but talk to us.

720

:

What do you think needs to happen

for us to take it to the next level,

721

:

to overcome the things that are

happening right now that, you know,

722

:

four years ago was a, a tidal wave.

723

:

To what Kevin was talking about in our

episode, uh, we're going to do this.

724

:

And yeah, it could have been based

on guilt and the whole nine yards,

725

:

but now there's a major retraction.

726

:

And then more importantly, we're not

seeing, uh, the results of what this

727

:

was supposed to do from the get go.

728

:

Right.

729

:

So I love to hear your thoughts on that.

730

:

Robert Franklin: Okay.

731

:

So.

732

:

Vote better, educate more is the

answer to your, your question.

733

:

I know I'll need to elaborate on that.

734

:

But, but first though.

735

:

Some of us aren't seeing what was

supposed to come of this DEI movement.

736

:

If you, I'm a, I'm a kid who

was raised by a wonderful set of

737

:

black women and the television.

738

:

And so the, I watched a lot of

TV just cause that's what I do.

739

:

So I'm watching commercials and whatnot.

740

:

And I have seen a huge shift in

Tide, Walmart, McDonald's, even I

741

:

was watching, uh, uh, Home Depot and

say what you will about Home Depot.

742

:

And I see people with, uh,

uh, assistive technologies.

743

:

I see families that are multi, uh,

multi families like a different

744

:

family dynamics and, uh, different

cues in their, in their, uh,

745

:

background and two dads and two moms.

746

:

And you know, the, the, all of that stuff.

747

:

And I'm like, when I was a kid, when I

was coming up trying to figure out, do

748

:

I want this toy or that toy watching TV?

749

:

I didn't see me.

750

:

I didn't see Never mind the kind of

families that I went to school with

751

:

being in the urban center or the kind

of families that my family's in the

752

:

southern part of the United States had.

753

:

I didn't see representation like that.

754

:

And so there is, there are different

pieces of that work, if you will, from

755

:

2024 and even a little bit before that.

756

:

And the work that Kev was talking

about doing, that we are seeing the

757

:

benefits of that, which allow me

working in a hospital to say to your

758

:

doctor or your kid's doctor, Hey,

Those differences, those dimensions of

759

:

difference matter when it comes to care.

760

:

You can be the great doctor,

greatest doctor in the world.

761

:

And if you miss the fact that black women

aren't believed about their pain, then if

762

:

you miss that part, that race is a part of

that, you're likely not to get great care,

763

:

even though you know all of the science.

764

:

So, we are seeing that people are open

to that and expecting us to talk about

765

:

things like health equity, expecting us

to talk to things about bias and how we

766

:

treat each other because there has been

so much work and so much effort now across

767

:

the country here in the United States.

768

:

That wave, that rhetoric, that

dog whistle as you name is

769

:

loud and it is, it is popular.

770

:

And so there are some places where

you can't educate yourself, uh, just

771

:

by yourself, just going in and I'm

a, I'm a product of public education.

772

:

That's it's hard now to just go

get your history and understand

773

:

what's going on in the world.

774

:

So we got to do better by our kids and by

our folks that are trying to be educated.

775

:

And then when we get better educated,

we can learn better about how we vote.

776

:

And matters to how what we get for our

education and what our laws looking

777

:

like and what opportunities like this

conversation could go away if we're

778

:

not careful with how we're voting.

779

:

So, those are the two two

solutions that are really, really

780

:

big and really, really nuanced.

781

:

But I do think that there's

some hope on the horizon though

782

:

Tony, Tony it's not all bad.

783

:

Even though we're seeing that

wave come across the nation.

784

:

Tony Tidbit: Right, right, right.

785

:

Can I, I just want to add, I just want to.

786

:

Make a couple of comments

based on what you said.

787

:

And Kevin, I want to hear your

point of view and you're right.

788

:

You know, I remember years ago, um,

and this was early two thousands.

789

:

I went to a conference and I

don't remember the publisher of

790

:

what it was a woman's, it was,

it was a woman's conference.

791

:

It was called, um, uh, Uh,

advertising women of New York.

792

:

Okay.

793

:

I don't know if you guys ever

participated, um, huge conference

794

:

and they had a few, they were, um,

um, um, celebrating some women in the

795

:

space and they had, uh, uh, all women

from different industries, but there

796

:

was a woman, she was a publisher of,

I don't, and I don't want to say it

797

:

could have been good housekeeping.

798

:

I can't remember exactly

what the magazine was.

799

:

But somebody, and it was the Q and A

time, and they asked a question, somebody

800

:

asked a question about, uh, when they

didn't see representation in the magazine.

801

:

Okay?

802

:

And there was probably

a thousand people there.

803

:

And this lady, and I sat there, and this

lady, she said, well, we would never put a

804

:

black woman on the cover of our magazine.

805

:

Nobody said nothing.

806

:

Nobody said what I did.

807

:

I was like, she, she said

that and nobody blinked.

808

:

This was 2003 for something like that.

809

:

Right.

810

:

So, so I never forgot that.

811

:

I couldn't believe she said it.

812

:

Okay.

813

:

And the reason I bring that up, because to

your point now, where you have commercials

814

:

now that you have, you know, you see,

you know, different, uh, races of people,

815

:

husband, wife, the whole nine yards.

816

:

I, my, my, my point is.

817

:

I don't see that part of being success.

818

:

Okay, I, I just don't

see that part of joy.

819

:

You know, we were on this D I wave and

now four years later Well, there's a

820

:

commercial sherman commercial Where I

see a black father and a white mother

821

:

and we're making progress I don't look

at that as progress to be honest I think

822

:

it goes back to what kevin was saying

about the guilt thing and nobody knew what

823

:

to do So they said well, you know what?

824

:

Let's let's do this And And, and,

and yes, it's great that our young

825

:

people can see other people, see

themselves in these spots, but I don't,

826

:

if that's what we get out of this,

then we, we, we've been, what's that?

827

:

What's that old saying?

828

:

Uh, uh, hoodwinked all right.

829

:

Bamboozled.

830

:

Right.

831

:

So that's just my thought, Kevin.

832

:

Robert Franklin: Wait, wait, wait.

833

:

But okay.

834

:

So just, just, just those commercials.

835

:

If we're just sticking with

the advertising just for now.

836

:

Those commercials represent jobs and

opportunities that weren't available

837

:

to certain people a lot for not that

long ago and and relate to their

838

:

career paths, their opportunities,

their families opportunities.

839

:

And so I hear what you're

saying that that's not enough.

840

:

I'm not, I don't want to land on that and.

841

:

It's more than we've had, and

there's a pathway to getting more

842

:

because we see that going on.

843

:

It hasn't gone away just because it's.

844

:

Different parts of our country

aren't talking about it.

845

:

It hasn't gone away.

846

:

And that has been a positive

thing that I wanted to make.

847

:

Tony Tidbit: Thanks, buddy.

848

:

Kev.

849

:

Kevin Clayton: Yep.

850

:

So Tony, can I take three minutes?

851

:

Yeah,

852

:

Tony Tidbit: I got you, buddy.

853

:

Kevin Clayton: All right.

854

:

Um, I appreciate what

both of you just said.

855

:

And Robert, your solutions,

you're absolutely right.

856

:

And this thing is so nuanced, and it's

so complicated, because there's not a

857

:

silver bullet that's going to kind of be

the one shot that wow, look at us now.

858

:

So Tony, I want to go, I want to

go back to what you just said.

859

:

And I will tell both of you that I was

enlightened by this work by a white male.

860

:

It was back in my days of PNG, John

Pepper, our CEO, who was heralded as one

861

:

of the best CEOs in corporate America,

called together this corporate meeting

862

:

for to announce some things in which we

are going to do to defend our business.

863

:

There were a number of, uh, companies

from Asia that were moving in

864

:

to the U S buying up companies.

865

:

And you all may recall back

to automotive industry.

866

:

There were Japanese, Taiwanese, Chinese,

all that were killing automobile industry.

867

:

All right, Chiquita banana, a consumer

products company, a Taiwanese company

868

:

bought Chiquita banana headquarters

right across the street from PNG.

869

:

If you all know anything about PNG, it's

like, no, you're not going to do that.

870

:

It's like, no, you just not go walk in

our backyard and build your, your office.

871

:

So we have this meeting.

872

:

I went to this meeting with this,

this white counterpart of mine,

873

:

and I was young in my career.

874

:

I was in my first level of being promoted.

875

:

I was maybe 24, 25 and out of

the meeting, Mike is his name.

876

:

We're sitting there and John says

something about total quality management.

877

:

And some of you all may remember

that he started talking about

878

:

category management, and then he

introduced this term called diversity.

879

:

And he talked about diversity from the

standpoint that if we looked at our

880

:

competitors that were coming over from

Asia and then back then they were,

881

:

they were all kind of one dimensional.

882

:

You didn't see any women

in their boardrooms.

883

:

You just saw men representing those

cultures, whether it be Chinese,

884

:

Japanese, or whatever it might have been.

885

:

And he was like, we will leverage the

uniqueness of the America's diversity.

886

:

And again, there was no E and I

diversity to combat these companies.

887

:

I translated that into like, wow, there's

going to be more people that look like me.

888

:

We're going to go into other markets.

889

:

They're going to be more of us that

are in our commercials because we

890

:

own Charmin and all those things.

891

:

So I walked out the room.

892

:

I mean, I walked out this

ballroom and Mike and I were

893

:

walking back and I'm lit on fire.

894

:

And I'm like, Mike, can you

believe what John just said?

895

:

Mike said, look, Kev,

I'm not excited at all.

896

:

And gentlemen, my response was,

I've been working with this

897

:

dude for the last two years.

898

:

He's a racist, he's discriminatory,

and all those biases that I have.

899

:

But instead of letting those biases milk

in, I did the one thing that I teach

900

:

in my training on biases, I asked the

question around, why aren't you excited?

901

:

So instead of my assumption, he said,

well, Kevin, let me just say this, if this

902

:

is diversity for the sake of diversity,

is this is just putting black folks on a

903

:

commercial, bruh, I just don't, I mean,

I got lots of other things I can do.

904

:

However, if you can show me how this

thing called diversity is going to

905

:

help sell more Charmin, more Tide,

more White Cloud, more Pampers, more

906

:

Loves, more Folgers, I am all for it.

907

:

Robert, the light bulb went off for me,

that my passion for it, I didn't give

908

:

a damn about coming out that meeting.

909

:

I was just like, I know what this

means to me and it was personal for me.

910

:

To Mike, who was just, who was 80%

of our organization, it was how

911

:

can we help this to, to, to help

him from a bottom line standpoint.

912

:

Correct.

913

:

Correct.

914

:

So for me it was every time that I built a

DEI plan or strategy or any conversation I

915

:

ever had, and that's why I told you about

when I went to Ogden, Utah and I didn't

916

:

finish telling you the rest of that.

917

:

It wasn't saying that, look, you

have diversity because you have, you

918

:

know, 12 of you on the room and you

actually are similar and different.

919

:

We have to start where you are

and where you are is the fact

920

:

that you have what you have.

921

:

But then secondly, what is the reason why?

922

:

And if it's a business,

what is the business case?

923

:

And I'm not talking about, Oh,

we're going to sell more Sharma.

924

:

I'm talking about, no, if we increase

our market share by one from 22

925

:

percent to 23%, it's going to yield

X amount of millions of dollars.

926

:

And therefore we all are going to bet.

927

:

So I have mapped out and I have

a, I got a white paper that's

928

:

been out there a number of years.

929

:

Talked about the business

rationale, the business case,

930

:

and the business imperative.

931

:

Because that is the language that

the top of the house speaks to.

932

:

And then it's like, okay, once you

understand the doing business with me

933

:

as a black person or going to HBCUs,

which we just found out post George

934

:

Floyd, they were just discovered then.

935

:

Then therefore, how do we connect with

how, where do we fit in that equation?

936

:

And that's all day long.

937

:

We can build that out.

938

:

I can build it out for

you at a hospital system.

939

:

I can build it out for you at a,

at a university, at a nonprofit.

940

:

But that's when that would Mike,

my counterpart said, nah, if I'm

941

:

just going to look around and

see more y'all, I ain't got it.

942

:

I'm not for it, but if you can tell me

how having more y'all around the table

943

:

is going to help me, I'm there for it.

944

:

And so go ahead, buddy.

945

:

No, the final point.

946

:

So therefore what are the solutions?

947

:

And I am not one to identify a problem

without a solution at the Urban League.

948

:

I have an opportunity as the chair and my

CEO, Marsha Mockaby, she and I have built

949

:

out what's called the Equity Institute

and the Equity Institute does two things.

950

:

One, it does exactly what I said.

951

:

The problem was we are taking chief

diversity officers or directors of

952

:

diversity or those folks who got

thrown in these positions and taking

953

:

them through a skill building session.

954

:

Oh, it's not, not a session.

955

:

It's a whole course.

956

:

We have also convened all chief diversity

officers in Northeast Ohio, and we meet

957

:

on a regular basis to come together to

talk about how we can support each other.

958

:

Because we know a lot of folks just

got thrown in this job the 2nd part,

959

:

which I'll just take a shameless plug.

960

:

I am the process of writing a book.

961

:

That I get to speak about in three

weeks and will be available right

962

:

after the election called the rise,

the fall, and the resurrection of DEI.

963

:

Those words are by choice.

964

:

And I don't know if either one of you are

spiritual men, but if you, if you are,

965

:

you understand what that language means.

966

:

Tony Tidbit: Oh yeah.

967

:

That was well taken.

968

:

Yeah, we get it.

969

:

We get it.

970

:

We

971

:

Kevin Clayton: get it.

972

:

Look, go ahead.

973

:

You got anything else you want to say?

974

:

They, they, the weaponizing

of it right now.

975

:

And Robert, it breaks my heart, brother.

976

:

When I hear you say, you know what?

977

:

We just, we want to change the name.

978

:

And I understand it or that when

people are throwing rocks and stones

979

:

and bricks and everything at you, my

point about the resurrection is really

980

:

redefining what the work is so that we

can get back to what it was meant to be.

981

:

And the resurrection, the correlation

from a biblical standpoint, you know,

982

:

after three days, it was a whole different

kind of conversation folks was having.

983

:

Tony Tidbit: That's that's the

bottom line, though, buddy.

984

:

My point is,

985

:

Kevin Clayton: after we kind of go

through what we're about to go through

986

:

from a political standpoint, either

way, we are going to have to do work.

987

:

If one side of the, of the, of this

country wins this political battle, we

988

:

will have to camouflage, redefine and,

but the work is still going to be done.

989

:

The work has been been out

there for hundreds of, well,

990

:

at least the last 50 years.

991

:

Yeah.

992

:

Okay.

993

:

65, 65, 66, 65, 66.

994

:

Right.

995

:

However, if another side wins,

it's going to be a whole rebirth.

996

:

Of what is the resurrection of the work?

997

:

And I'm banking on this side over here.

998

:

So that's what I'm doing to Tony.

999

:

And that's, that's solution for me is we

need to continue to educate ourselves.

:

00:52:55,054 --> 00:52:59,104

We need to share with others and we

also need to make sure that we are

:

00:52:59,104 --> 00:53:00,444

clear as to what we're talking about.

:

00:53:00,514 --> 00:53:02,494

This is not just about black folks.

:

00:53:02,554 --> 00:53:03,704

Tony Tidbit: Right, right, right.

:

00:53:03,704 --> 00:53:07,944

Well, look, buddy, I mean, number one,

uh, when your book comes out, we're

:

00:53:07,944 --> 00:53:10,794

going to have you come back on because

I definitely, you know, you threw

:

00:53:10,794 --> 00:53:12,324

the teaser out there, which I love.

:

00:53:12,354 --> 00:53:13,034

Okay.

:

00:53:13,204 --> 00:53:14,334

And I love the title.

:

00:53:14,709 --> 00:53:18,109

Um, so definitely going to have

you come on back on about that.

:

00:53:18,319 --> 00:53:20,199

And I love the equity Institute.

:

00:53:20,379 --> 00:53:21,029

Okay.

:

00:53:21,299 --> 00:53:25,819

Which is, you know, it's,

it's nuts and bolts, right?

:

00:53:26,069 --> 00:53:30,279

You're putting stuff together

that basically has KPIs.

:

00:53:30,289 --> 00:53:34,229

There's going to be, you know, it's

not pie in the sky type stuff, right?

:

00:53:34,489 --> 00:53:35,789

Getting people together.

:

00:53:36,464 --> 00:53:40,784

Educating one another because your

point earlier about people being put

:

00:53:40,784 --> 00:53:43,694

in these positions and no having what?

:

00:53:44,614 --> 00:53:49,054

Having no way in terms of what success

looks like right they may be very

:

00:53:49,054 --> 00:53:54,044

well skilled They may be very talented

right, but at the end of the day if

:

00:53:54,044 --> 00:53:57,744

they don't know how to put this together

They're not going to be successful which

:

00:53:58,014 --> 00:54:02,534

Unfortunately is not going to make all

of us successful So we need for them to

:

00:54:02,544 --> 00:54:07,064

be successful in these roles So we can

definitely all become successful from a

:

00:54:07,064 --> 00:54:08,864

diversity, equity, inclusion standpoint.

:

00:54:09,274 --> 00:54:11,074

Final thoughts, Robert Franklin.

:

00:54:14,084 --> 00:54:14,634

Robert Franklin: Thank you.

:

00:54:15,144 --> 00:54:19,744

That gratitude, uh, Kev, thank you

for the work that you are doing.

:

00:54:19,804 --> 00:54:22,154

Thank you for the work

that you're gonna do.

:

00:54:22,574 --> 00:54:26,904

Uh, I guess I say thank you to Procter

and Gamble for giving us you, uh, all that

:

00:54:26,904 --> 00:54:31,849

experience because You what you're doing

and what you just described is so much of

:

00:54:31,849 --> 00:54:35,349

the work that's happened on this side of

the country as well that we're a part of.

:

00:54:35,349 --> 00:54:38,149

And so I just would say

thank you to you for that.

:

00:54:38,149 --> 00:54:41,869

And then Tony, thank you for making

this space right that I found you

:

00:54:42,319 --> 00:54:45,589

because I wanted to look for some

inspiration in the podcast game.

:

00:54:45,609 --> 00:54:49,079

And so it's because of you that I

even do a little bit of the stuff

:

00:54:49,079 --> 00:54:50,179

that I'm doing on my podcast.

:

00:54:50,179 --> 00:54:52,289

So I just that's where I'm

going to end with this is

:

00:54:52,519 --> 00:54:54,359

gratitude for my final thought.

:

00:54:55,099 --> 00:54:55,629

Tony Tidbit: Awesome.

:

00:54:55,759 --> 00:54:56,129

Kevin.

:

00:54:57,244 --> 00:54:59,214

Kevin Clayton: So Tony, thank

you for the platform, brother.

:

00:54:59,214 --> 00:55:03,454

I mean, you, you found me through

CODE M and you know, here we are on

:

00:55:03,494 --> 00:55:08,134

part two and, and, and, and Robert,

I can't tell you how grateful I am to

:

00:55:08,134 --> 00:55:14,264

you, brother one, you heard something

you wanted to, to dive deeper into it.

:

00:55:15,064 --> 00:55:18,984

And I'm 100 percent receiving of it and

told you we sell these, I care, which is

:

00:55:18,984 --> 00:55:23,644

I'm like, Oh, absolutely, because I've

learned something from you and hopefully

:

00:55:23,644 --> 00:55:26,344

there might have been one or two things

that you got you gathered from me.

:

00:55:26,344 --> 00:55:30,584

But if we as black men, and I say this

very specifically, we have black men.

:

00:55:31,254 --> 00:55:35,614

can't learn or don't know how to have

a conversation with each other without

:

00:55:35,614 --> 00:55:39,204

yelling and screaming and cussing

and fighting, then I mean, what,

:

00:55:39,544 --> 00:55:41,044

what, what, what do we really have?

:

00:55:42,304 --> 00:55:45,414

And so I thank you for the

courage that you had to say, reach

:

00:55:45,414 --> 00:55:47,674

out and say, Hey, let's, let's

have some dialogue about this.

:

00:55:48,024 --> 00:55:52,294

And if there's anything I can do, you

got my number, please reach out as

:

00:55:52,294 --> 00:55:55,464

a, I mean, I, I was in healthcare, I

was in bonds, the court mercy health.

:

00:55:55,954 --> 00:55:58,044

More than happy brother to work with you.

:

00:55:58,044 --> 00:55:59,744

And I'm not talking about charging enough.

:

00:55:59,744 --> 00:56:02,564

I'm just saying, I want to help

you on the, on the strength

:

00:56:02,564 --> 00:56:06,014

of, of, of just another brother

needing, needing another brother.

:

00:56:06,684 --> 00:56:07,494

Robert Franklin: I appreciate that.

:

00:56:07,494 --> 00:56:09,054

And yes, I will be reaching out next time.

:

00:56:09,054 --> 00:56:11,794

I'm up that way, but reach

back into the healthcare space.

:

00:56:11,794 --> 00:56:15,104

There's some children's hospitals out

there in Ohio that needs some help

:

00:56:15,105 --> 00:56:17,594

from a DEI perspective right now.

:

00:56:17,674 --> 00:56:19,434

So if you can tap into

them, that'd be great.

:

00:56:19,864 --> 00:56:20,204

Okay.

:

00:56:20,804 --> 00:56:22,624

Tony Tidbit: And I want to thank

both of you guys for coming

:

00:56:22,624 --> 00:56:24,854

on, having this conversation.

:

00:56:25,114 --> 00:56:26,444

I really appreciate it.

:

00:56:26,464 --> 00:56:29,434

We want to do more of this

because it's important.

:

00:56:29,594 --> 00:56:32,454

And Robert, you have a

podcast, you and I've chatted.

:

00:56:32,454 --> 00:56:34,674

So we're going to be doing

some stuff together as well.

:

00:56:34,884 --> 00:56:35,314

So.

:

00:56:35,589 --> 00:56:39,039

One of the things that came out of this

conversation is definitely hearing you

:

00:56:39,039 --> 00:56:42,559

guys perspective, but more importantly

to what Kevin just got finished

:

00:56:42,559 --> 00:56:47,199

saying, is that it's about us getting

together, working together, right?

:

00:56:47,219 --> 00:56:49,759

Listening to one another and

growing from one another.

:

00:56:49,909 --> 00:56:53,930

So I want to thank Kevin Clayton and

Robert Franklin II for coming on a

:

00:56:53,930 --> 00:56:55,759

Black Executive Perspective podcast.

:

00:56:55,760 --> 00:56:57,619

I want you guys to stay right

there because you're going to

:

00:56:57,629 --> 00:56:59,849

help us with our call to action.

:

00:56:59,849 --> 00:57:02,259

So I think it's now time for Tony's

:

00:57:02,279 --> 00:57:02,819

Kevin Clayton: Tidbit.

:

00:57:02,849 --> 00:57:07,770

Tony Tidbit: And the Tidbit today Is based

on what we heard from Kevin and Robert,

:

00:57:08,064 --> 00:57:13,734

and I quote, listening to different

perspectives isn't just about agreement.

:

00:57:14,494 --> 00:57:15,294

It's about learning.

:

00:57:15,889 --> 00:57:20,139

Evolving and finding better

ways forward together.

:

00:57:20,649 --> 00:57:24,979

And you heard that on this episode of

a black executive perspective podcast.

:

00:57:25,009 --> 00:57:27,959

So please, we want to remind

everybody to make sure that

:

00:57:27,959 --> 00:57:30,089

you follow our segment by Dr.

:

00:57:30,089 --> 00:57:34,209

Nsenga Burton on a black executive

perspective podcast need to know,

:

00:57:34,379 --> 00:57:36,339

which comes out every Thursday, Dr.

:

00:57:36,339 --> 00:57:40,349

Burton dives in timely and crucial topics

that shape our community and world.

:

00:57:40,369 --> 00:57:43,619

You definitely don't want to

miss her because she brings up.

:

00:57:43,764 --> 00:57:45,054

Things that you need to know.

:

00:57:45,054 --> 00:57:47,974

You need to stay informed

of on a weekly basis.

:

00:57:48,014 --> 00:57:50,454

Every Thursday, check out Need to Know.

:

00:57:50,774 --> 00:57:55,434

And more importantly, I hope you

enjoyed today's episode DEI Under Fire.

:

00:57:55,634 --> 00:57:58,974

Robert Franklin challenges

Kevin Clayton's views.

:

00:57:59,664 --> 00:58:02,194

And so I don't know if it was

really, I think it was more

:

00:58:02,194 --> 00:58:03,324

of a love fest to be honest.

:

00:58:03,794 --> 00:58:04,794

Robert Franklin: I like the title though.

:

00:58:04,854 --> 00:58:05,664

That's a good title.

:

00:58:05,724 --> 00:58:06,214

All right.

:

00:58:06,254 --> 00:58:08,224

Tony Tidbit: So, you know,

but it all worked out.

:

00:58:08,224 --> 00:58:08,744

Okay.

:

00:58:08,864 --> 00:58:11,094

So now it's time for our call to action.

:

00:58:11,094 --> 00:58:13,184

Les and Black Executive Perspective.

:

00:58:13,434 --> 00:58:16,434

Our goal, our mission is

obviously bringing change.

:

00:58:16,529 --> 00:58:21,789

People on the talk about these topics be

authentic from a storytelling standpoint.

:

00:58:21,789 --> 00:58:25,119

But more importantly, we wanted

to, we wanted to decrease

:

00:58:25,199 --> 00:58:27,079

all forms of discrimination.

:

00:58:27,369 --> 00:58:31,049

So our call to action

is called less L E S S.

:

00:58:31,049 --> 00:58:34,689

And this is something that we want

everyone to incorporate because this

:

00:58:34,689 --> 00:58:36,179

is something that's in your control.

:

00:58:36,429 --> 00:58:37,339

So L.

:

00:58:37,654 --> 00:58:39,174

The L stands for learn.

:

00:58:39,184 --> 00:58:42,624

So one of the things we want

you to do is educate yourselves

:

00:58:42,994 --> 00:58:45,344

on cultural and racial nuances.

:

00:58:45,364 --> 00:58:48,624

Things that you don't know, the

more that you can learn, the

:

00:58:48,634 --> 00:58:49,874

more you will be enlightened.

:

00:58:51,584 --> 00:58:56,534

Robert Franklin: E, empathize, empathize

to understand diverse perspectives.

:

00:58:56,575 --> 00:58:59,714

Ask the question about what is your why?

:

00:59:00,054 --> 00:59:03,454

Try to be more curious and figure out

what's going on in that other person's

:

00:59:03,454 --> 00:59:05,874

mind because you don't know until you ask.

:

00:59:07,354 --> 00:59:07,904

Kevin Clayton: Share.

:

00:59:08,504 --> 00:59:10,454

Share your insights to enlighten others.

:

00:59:11,524 --> 00:59:14,114

To whom much is given, much is expected.

:

00:59:14,694 --> 00:59:16,544

This is the Black Executive Forum.

:

00:59:17,044 --> 00:59:20,454

We have a responsibility to

give back to everyone, and

:

00:59:20,454 --> 00:59:21,824

particularly those behind us.

:

00:59:22,344 --> 00:59:24,574

Tony Tidbit: Absolutely, and then

the final S stands for stopped.

:

00:59:25,110 --> 00:59:28,050

You want to stop discrimination

as it comes in your path.

:

00:59:28,330 --> 00:59:31,090

So if grandma says something at

the Thanksgiving table that's

:

00:59:31,090 --> 00:59:34,530

inappropriate, you say, grandma,

we don't believe in that.

:

00:59:34,530 --> 00:59:35,570

We don't say that.

:

00:59:35,760 --> 00:59:37,390

And you stop it right then.

:

00:59:37,710 --> 00:59:42,449

Because if everyone can incorporate

less L E S S, we'll build a more

:

00:59:42,550 --> 00:59:44,570

understanding and fair world.

:

00:59:44,860 --> 00:59:48,850

And more importantly, we'll all

see the change that we want to see.

:

00:59:49,360 --> 00:59:51,790

Because less will become more.

:

00:59:52,510 --> 00:59:53,080

Don't forget.

:

00:59:53,100 --> 00:59:57,290

You can follow a black executive

perspective wherever you get your podcast.

:

00:59:57,500 --> 01:00:02,789

And more importantly, you can follow us on

all our socials, Tick Tocks, X, YouTube,

:

01:00:02,789 --> 01:00:04,720

Facebook, and Instagram at a black exec.

:

01:00:05,130 --> 01:00:09,330

I want to thank our fabulous

guests, Kevin Clayton, EVP of the

:

01:00:09,330 --> 01:00:11,410

Cleveland Cavaliers, Robert Franklin.

:

01:00:11,765 --> 01:00:15,405

Founder of seven focus for coming

on a black executive perspective

:

01:00:15,675 --> 01:00:17,185

for the woman behind the glass.

:

01:00:17,185 --> 01:00:20,374

Noelle Miller who pulls the

levers to make this happen.

:

01:00:20,665 --> 01:00:21,245

Guess what?

:

01:00:21,245 --> 01:00:22,285

We talked about it.

:

01:00:22,404 --> 01:00:23,255

We love you.

:

01:00:23,665 --> 01:00:24,364

And guess what?

:

01:00:24,364 --> 01:00:24,865

We're out

:

01:00:28,865 --> 01:00:31,425

BEP Narrator: a black

executive perspective.

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