Easily listen to All In Long Beach

Speaker: 00:00:00

Duggan 3rd District: I want to understand.

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How this is legal when there is a

specific sunset date in the ordinance?

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All in Long Beach, we're breaking it

down News and events from all around

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too Food and fun, we bring it to you

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Stuart - All In Long Beach: Well,

hey friends and neighbors, welcome

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to the all in Long Beach podcast.

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This segment is called on the

agenda and it deals with everything

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that's happening in city hall and

the city of Long Beach politics.

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And today we're going to be talking

about this biggest controversy that's

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happening right now before our very

eyes, this potential illegal sales

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tax increase that's being pushed

through the council right now.

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And it's something that if you aren't

familiar with, Uh, you're going to

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be hearing about it a lot because the

Long Beach Reform Commission coalition

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just filed a lawsuit against the city

because they're claiming that the city

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of Long Beach is implementing a sales

tax increase illegally two years early.

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Early.

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Now, this is a complicated thing.

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I had to sit down and really kind of

go through all of this to find out

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what it is that they're talking about.

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What is this sales tax?

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Because sales tax is regulated.

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You know, there's rules and

laws against what you can do.

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The state has a cap on sales tax at 10.

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25%.

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You can't go above that.

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So I'm trying to figure

out what's happening here.

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Now, let me give you a brief breakdown

of to the best of my knowledge and my

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understanding about how this is working

because you got to follow me here.

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Because it's kind of complicated.

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We have two Measure A's that

we're going to talk about.

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And we're going to have a Measure

H that we're talking about.

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One of the Measure A's is L.

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A.

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County.

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And one of the Measure A's and the

Measure H is City of Long Beach.

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So you got to remember to keep

those things separate, okay?

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No, I'm sorry.

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Measure H is L.

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A.

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County and one of the L.

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A.

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things is Measure A.

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So Measure A, Measure H, L.

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A.

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County, the other Measure

A, city of Long Beach.

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Sorry about that.

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Here we go.

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Here we go, kind of

like , live radio here.

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No edits, live media.

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So the other thing that's happening here

is Measure H has a sunset clause in it.

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But when the voters of Measure A, L.

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A.

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County, voted to approve this last

November, it ended Measure H early.

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Now the Long Beach Measure A said

that when Measure H sunsets, which is

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supposed to have been in 2027, that the

sales tax increase will go up for the

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city of Long Beach, keep us at that 10.

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25 percent so no money is

lost during this transition.

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The question becomes the verbiage.

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In the Long Beach Measure A, it

says That this increase will happen

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when Measure H sunsets in 2027.

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The question that everybody is asking

and the question that this lawsuit

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is hoping to figure out is in this

lawsuit, or I'm sorry, in this

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measure, it says that This tax will

go into effect when Measure H sunsets.

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Well now, the Measure H will

sunset this year, in April 2025.

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Two years early, before the

October 2027 deadline that it

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was initially scheduled to go.

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Now what we're looking at though, is

which of these two meanings, which

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of these two definitions, Is actually

legitimate because one says when

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measure H sunsets comma in October 2027.

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So which one is it?

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Which one is it?

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Does this kick in when measure H sunsets?

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Because that's going to be

April 2025 or in October 2027.

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There's people that are saying that

we know what the intent of the law is.

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The intent was for this to

kick in so we don't lose money.

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I think some of the estimates City Council

was talking about was about 60 million.

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That's a lot of money.

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60 million.

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It's a lot of money.

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But there's a clause in this law, in

this measure that was approved by the

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voters that also said in October 2027.

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Now this is confusing.

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This was a poorly written bill.

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Councilwoman Christina Duggan from the

3rd District actually talks about that.

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Listen to this.

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Duggan 3rd District: Do agree, uh,

Council Member Rex Oddie that the

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technical, uh, the technicality

of this, we get the intent.

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I think in the future, we hope to

look at this so this can never be

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a gray area in future measures.

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This is not clear.

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An intent is not clear.

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Black and white on the other

hand, I do understand the

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voters had the intent of this.

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Stuart - All In Long Beach:

Now this is what's weird.

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She says she gets the intent

but the intent is not clear.

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So the city of Long Beach is really

in a tough spot here and they know it.

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They knew it.

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Christina Dugan knew it.

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Earlier in the meeting she said this

about this particular situation.

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Duggan 3rd District: So, I asked if the

ballot measure itself had an end date.

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The technical language does have

a sunset date of measure H, so

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technically it's black and white.

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Isn't a date black and white

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Stuart - All In Long Beach: So now

she's asking the city attorney, can

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you help me clarify this language?

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Because I don't think we can

do this is what she's saying.

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And she's trying to get

clarification from the city attorney.

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Duggan 3rd District: my question

is, I want to understand.

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How this is legal when there is a

specific sunset date in the ordinance?

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City Attorney: Okay, so the

ordinance says that Measure H

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is sunsetting on the, in 2027.

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It, so it says the 1 percent

tax for the city is in effect.

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Through 22 and then the city's three

quarter cent tax is in effect through 27

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and then it goes back to the 1 percent

tax upon the sunset of measure H.

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Stuart - All In Long Beach: Upon the

sunset of measure H in October, 2027.

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That's what it says in October,

2027, she left that part out.

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City Attorney: So where people may get

confused is that it says through 27 and

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then says that the 1 percent bounces

back in upon the sunset of measure H.

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And so it's very clear in the documents

that the intention was always for

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it to go back to 1 percent upon the

sunset of Measure H, but it was not

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necessarily envisioned that Measure H

could sunset early, so that language

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wasn't included if it sunsets early.

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Stuart - All In Long Beach: I think

everyone can agree that the intent

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was that this tax would kick in after

the sunset in Measure H in 2027.

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But it says October 2027.

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There's a date on it.

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So despite what the intent may have

been, that's not what the measure says.

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And that's kind of what's, what's

going on here, and that's why the

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Long Beach Reform coalation is saying.

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There's a specific date

in this measure, 2027.

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That's when the sales tax

is supposed to come in.

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We are already one of the most

highly taxed areas in the country.

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And any sort of reprieve that we

can get, especially since there's a

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ton of businesses out there that are

still trying to recover from COVID.

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There's a lot of people that

are still paycheck to paycheck

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that are still hurting a lot.

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We are way overtaxed to begin with.

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And this 1%, it may not sound like a lot.

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, but to the average family, this

could really, really, really add up.

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When you take a, a look at the

bigger picture from all the way

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around now, where are we gonna,

are we gonna lose some money?

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Yes, absolutely.

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Some money's gonna come down, uh,

in some budget tightening from the

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civil, but you know what the thing is?

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They always go back to the, the, the

statement of, if we don't, if we don't

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do this, we're gonna lose all this money.

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And it's going to cut budgets from

fire and police and all these other

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things that are all these other kind

of buzzwords, but it didn't have to.

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I think what we're seeing right now

in the federal government, we're

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seeing tons of cuts and excess waste

in just general government spending.

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There are a lot of areas where we

can still continue to do some belt

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tightening without having to cut

essential services like schools,

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education, police, fire, all this.

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Let's keep listening to this, uh,

special session from December 12th.

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City Attorney: because you don't

necessarily put language into legal

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documents that have no need to be there.

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But it does say that it will go back

up upon the sunset of measure H.

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Stuart - All In Long Beach: And

listen to this from Christina Dugan,

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third counsel, cause she nailed it.

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She nailed it with this next question.

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Duggan 3rd District: So you don't

have a concern that we are going

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to have legal issues with this?

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Stuart - All In Long Beach: I knew

that what this was was really sketchy,

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and that it didn't make any sense,

and that this might not be okay.

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But the city attorney and all

the words kind of puts it into

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perspective, just about the bigger

picture of how government works.

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Duggan 3rd District: So you don't

have a concern that we are going

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to have legal issues with this?

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City Attorney: Council

Member, I can never say that.

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There could always be legal issues

with anything this council does.

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Anybody can sue on anything in the world.

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Um, so all we can do is sit here

and tell you why we believe that

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this is expressing the will and the

intent of the voters, which we do.

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That's what we think it is doing,

or we wouldn't be here today.

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And so in order to effectuate what we

believe is the will and intent of the

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voters, this measure has to be taken.

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Because there was some, uh, lack of

understanding about the 110 day deadline,

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or else this would have been on a

regularly noticed meeting, but because

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that information was found out on Friday,

we had to bring it to you today to make

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sure that the city's not losing millions

of dollars in revenue from that measure.

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Stuart - All In Long Beach: So what

we're talking about here in this

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110 day notice is any time that

there's a sales tax increase from

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any government, from any city, you

have to inform the state 110 days in

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advance of the tax going into effect.

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So what this is, is saying to the state,

hey, we have this ballot measure, it

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was voted upon, but because Measure H

sent it early, we're going to institute

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this tax now instead of when the voters

said it was going to happen in 2027.

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But that's the kicker right there.

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It's a new tax . They have to

get approval from the state when

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they're going to institute a new tax

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.

Now, because this was a special meeting and it was called on December 12th,

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right in the middle of the holidays and

it was on a Thursday in the middle of

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the day, not a lot of people came out

in public support or opposition about

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this when it came to public comment,

but Ian Patton, the executive director

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of the Long Beach Reform Coalition, did

have an opportunity to get up and speak.

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This is what he said.

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Ian Patton: This is

not a technical change.

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This is a tax increase that was not

voted on by the people of this city.

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And you are all going to be tagged with

jacking up the sales tax of the people

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of this city without their approval in a

stealth meeting in the December holidays

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that nobody in the community knew about.

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Stop and think about what you're doing.

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It's both wrong and it's illegal.

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This ordinance Was passed by the people

of this city by a 16 vote margin out

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of a hundred thousand But it's legal.

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It was passed by the people and what

the city attorney said to you is

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false All you have to do is read it.

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I sent it to all of

you Read the ordinance.

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There is a schedule for the tax rate

in the ordinance There is no language

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that it automatically goes up.

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The financial manager says oh, it just

automatically goes up That's made up.

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It doesn't exist.

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It's not in the ordinance

passed by the people.

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The schedule is very clear that it is

a three quarter percent tax starting

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on, and she didn't even know the year,

it's January 1, 2023 until October 2027.

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Stuart - All In Long Beach: of amazing on

how the citizens of Long Beach, the people

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who actually care about this city, know

more about the law than the city attorney

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and some of the people on council.

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Doesn't that just kind of

blow your mind sometimes?

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So now, as a result of this action

that was taken, that was passed

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unanimously by the way, six, uh,

all six members that ultimately

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made it to this special meeting.

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Um, it started out with five,

someone showed up late, and

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then, uh, three were absent.

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Of the six council people that

were there, they all voted yes.

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Even Christina Dugan voted yes.

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Because they're trying to express the will

of the people, the will of the voters, But

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there were some scare tactics on behalf

of the city manager and people saying like

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this is money that we need if we don't

do this we're gonna have to cut and cut

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and cut and we're already looking at a

30 million dollar shortfall next year.

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This is Tom Modica.

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City Manager: And then I will say

internally, next year we are going

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to have to make some very tough

decisions about how, uh, if we

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either have Measure A or don't have

Measure A, what we're going to do.

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Uh, we are facing a 30 million

deficit next year, um, uh, that

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Measure A plus some of the others

would have part of our strategy.

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Um, that would mean some pretty

significant public safety cuts,

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for example, at that level.

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Uh, you're also going to have to make

some decisions on, um, if Measure A

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is successful and, or if, if this, if

this happens and we go forward, um,

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how much of that do we want to spend

on infrastructure versus public safety?

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Stuart - All In Long Beach: Starting

with that, that fear mongering, I'm

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doing that in air quotes, saying like,

if you don't say yes to this, then you

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guys, city council are going to have

to make some tough decisions about

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how you're going to explain to your

constituents, why you're cutting funding

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in education and in fire and in police.

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So if you say no to this, you're going

to have to explain that to your people.

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That's what they're phrasing the

question to be, as opposed to

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phrasing it as is the actual text.

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Legal.

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Like, did someone mess up here?

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That's, that's kind of the thing.

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And Christina Dugan mentioned it earlier.

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When she goes, we need to be very clear.

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This is too great.

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We need to be very clear

in measures moving forward.

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So I think there will

be some learning here.

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So, where do we go from here?

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Well, we have a lawsuit that's been filed.

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So we're going to have to figure out if

this judge is going to put an injunction,

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if they're not going to allow us to do

this tax, if it's going to be on hold,

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if it's going to be this whole reading,

what are we going to do in the meantime?

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Who's going to be paying for all this?

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And this is, again, see,

I'm a small business owner.

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My time is valuable, right?

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I got a lot of projects going on.

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I don't have time to

do the same job twice.

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That's why you want to make sure

you do it right the first time.

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Take a little bit of extra time.

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Make sure you do it right the first time.

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But But what's going on in the city

right now is they rushed this vote, they

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were uninformed, they were going off of

what they think they can get away with,

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and now they're being called out on it.

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So now the city is going to have to

spend time, they're going to have to

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spend money going back and redoing

all of this, which is going to prevent

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the city from doing other things that

can actually push this city, this

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project, push everything else forward.

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Because they're all too busy living

in the past because of this decision.

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So that's where we're at right now.

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And you're going to be hearing a

lot of this as we move forward.

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And maybe we'll get Ian on the,

on the pro, on the podcast later

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on, so he can kind of give us an

update on what's happening in this

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case and where things are going.

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But you'll be hearing about it through

the city and you're going to be hearing

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about it through the news and you're

going to be hearing it here on the

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All in Long Beach podcast in this

segment that we call On the Agenda.

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That's it for today though.

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Thanks for listening.

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Be sure to like, follow, and subscribe.

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Let me know your comments

on whatever podcast you're

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listening to on our social media.

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You What do you think about this?

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Until next time, Long Beach, thanks

neighbors, thanks friends for listening,

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and we will catch you in the next episode.

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