Hosted by Mike Guidone and Chris Caputo, the show explores the changing world of college athletics with guests Dr. Robert Dranoff and AJ Rovner. The discussion focuses on how the NCAA landscape has shifted over the years, especially for Division I, II, and III schools, and the growing impact of money and commercialization in college sports. Dr. Dranoff shares insights from his decades of experience, explaining the challenges smaller athletic programs now face, while AJ Rovner discusses the passion surrounding local sports teams like the Knicks. Together, they examine the pressures schools and athletes face today while also highlighting the lasting spirit and importance of college athletics.

Takeaways:

• The current landscape of college athletics is marked by unprecedented transformation and commercialization, as articulated by Dr. Bob Dranoff.
• Dr. Dranoff emphasized that the sustainability of the NCAA divisions may necessitate significant reform to address contemporary challenges.
• The discussion highlighted the importance of balancing athletics and academics, particularly at Division II institutions, amid evolving trends in college sports.
• AJ Rovner elaborated on the Knicks' recent success, attributing it to a well-structured team depth that enhances their offensive strategy.
• The Knicks' strategic focus on three-point shooting has markedly improved their performance, reflecting a significant shift in their style of play under Coach Mike Brown.
• The podcast elucidated the critical role of community engagement and fan support in enhancing the atmosphere and viability of college athletic programs.

The views expressed in the following program do not necessarily represent those of the staff, management or owners of wgbb.

Live from the WGBB studios in Merrick, New York, this is Sports Talk New York.

I'm your host, Mike Wid, joined as always by the man we call Cappy, Chris Caputo.

Got a power packed show for you tonight.

Gonna talk a lot of local sports, Knicks in action, Mets and Yankees hitting the skids.

But before we do any of that stuff, like to say hi once again to my co host, Chris Cappy Caputo.

Cap, how you doing?

Good.

Thanks for having me here again, Mike.

This is a lot of fun and happy Mother's Day to all the mothers out there sp New York I would say Mike has kind of hit some ups and downs.

I think it's good that the Knicks are around because some of the other teams are really putrid and it would give you nothing to talk about.

But we'll get into that in the second half of our show.

Yeah, we're going to welcome AJ Rovener who's been on the program before.

He'll speak with us really about mostly the Knicks and a little Mets background.

But before we get to any of that, we're very happy to be welcomed tonight by Dr. Bob Dranoff.

Dr. Bob was all over the map in terms of administration for college, most notably the head of the East Coast Conference, which is our local Division II conference here, head at Dowling College.

I was lucky enough to work with him and for him for a year and we're going to talk everything college athletics.

So right now we welcome in Dr. Bob Dranoff.

Bob, how you doing tonight?

Mike and Chris, very good guys, thank you.

I appreciate you having me on.

Oh, it's really, it's our pleasure.

And you know, we spoke recently, you know, right now you're teaching at St. John's doing some sports management graduate level.

And you know, I was very lucky you had me present for your class and that was a great experience.

So we've, you and I have kind of talked a lot of what we're going to discuss tonight on the air about the state of college athletics and everything.

But we're going to, I think we're going to go a little bit of a deeper dive to find out just Back in the dowling years and things.

How you enjoyed that process and really how things have evolved or maybe even the word might even be devolved in some, in some respects.

Yeah, I would.

Yeah.

You know, I.

Well, you're right.

Things have.

Things change all the time in college athletics now.

That is for sure.

Yeah, that.

I guess that's the one constant is change.

I mean, that's really the constant in life.

But certainly in college athletics, I mean, you can't get on social media, you can't open a newspaper without there being some type of news story.

I mean, this week it broke that the NCAA tournament's expanding just.

And I'm sure we'll get to that.

But it's crazy times, almost the wild west here in big time college athletics.

You know, somebody had asked me recently in one of my classes how I would term what's going on in college athletics now.

And I was trying to think of the right word.

You know, it's easy to talk about the fact that college sports today is, is no surprise is very commercialized more than ever before.

You know, it's easy to talk about it being chaotic.

But I think probably the thing I settled on was it's, it's a time of transformation.

Probably the biggest change in college in the history of college athletics has been occurring the last few years.

Sure.

Not to get ahead of ourselves here, but you know, it kind of lends itself to what you were just saying.

Do you feel that this current model, this Division one, Division two, Division three, and with Division one being so top heavy with nil and everything, is that a sustainable model, do you think?

Well, I think it's sustainable, but not in its current, its current format.

I think.

I think the Division 1, I go way back.

I retired a couple years ago from my job as commissioner of the East Coast Conference, which I did for 16 years.

But you know, that was, I think that it was about 45 years I spent in college athletics.

And so I was around, I started at the time when there was no divisions in the ncaa.

I was just, I got my job, my first job at St. John's University just after the, really, just after the fact that the women's NCAA had started getting involved in women's athletics.

I mean, it's, you know, things have changed so much in 45 years.

So the divisional idea, I think was, was a stroke of good luck for a lot of athletic programs because before that, you know, there was just big schools and little schools.

But you know, I think the part that makes what you're Mentioning like that in terms of being sustainable, I think goes to the fact that it's so different in just a short amount of time, everything has become so different.

The fact that college athletes can now be paid, people don't.

It's hard for old timers, people that are like me, that have been around for so long, to understand what that, the impact that's having or understand if there's even value in it.

But I think there is.

I mean, I think that change is always good in an organization.

What I fear, I think is that in a lot of ways when people think about college athletics, they think about those big time Division 1 programs, the schools in the Big Ten or the SEC or, you know, or maybe they even think about Stony Brook and Hofstra, you know, which are kind of mid major Division 1 schools.

But the majority of kids playing sports in college athletics in the NCAA are not in Division 1, Division 2 and 3.

I think it's something like 65% of student athletes in the NCAA aren't, are playing in Division 2 and 3.

And a lot of the things that we hear about in the question about sustainability really have a lot more to do with those big time athletic programs than they do with some of the smaller programs that we think about here on Long Iowa.

Again, we're talking with Dr. Bob Dranoff.

Bob, you kind of gave us a little bit of insight into some of that stuff.

But you started back in the late 70s as an assistant athletic director at St. John's which again, at the time divisions were just coming about.

Then you go down to Old Westbury, back kind of middle to Division 2, Dowling Down.

Then you're in the Suffolk Community College realm and you finish up being a director of a Division 2 conference.

Can you explain some of the, you know, the differences and the ups and downs over those 40 years of what college athletics was like for you?

Well, Chris, ups and downs is being kind, I gotta tell you.

Mike could probably tell some stories about his adventures there with us over at Dowling during those years.

You know, I left St. John's the most formative part of my career.

I tell people all the time that it was the most important time of my life professionally.

I was a kid right out of college.

But I had a chance to work with some amazing people, names that people know.

Jack Kaiser was a famous athletic director there.

He was my boss, my mentor, my friend, Coach Konaseka and so many other people there.

I was there during the heyday of the, the Big East.

But then I had a chance what my desire was, I felt that I would like to be in a leadership role.

I did get that job at Old Westbury for a few years, which was the other side of the spectrum in a lot of ways.

You know, that school had lost NCAA membership because they had dropped so many sports.

And that was really the job I had to do is bring back sports and get us back into the ncaa.

The Dowling thing came along, and that was a school, unfortunately, no longer open anymore.

But I spent 12 years at Dowling, and that was a school where we had no athletic facilities.

It was a Division 2 program, no athletic facilities.

I used to tell people the only athletic facilities we had was the River Konequot river campus, where we would row on for our men's and women's rowing teams.

But, you know, we were able to have a lot of success at Dowling, where with a lot of our teams were very good.

And I think it was a matter of coaches and athletes who put the facility part aside and said, we, you know, we'll work together, we'll outwork people.

I learned so much there.

It was a very frustrating place.

And like I said, unfortunately, after I left a few years later, while I was commissioner of the conference in bowling, as a member of that was a member of that conference, they had closed shop.

But the community college.

I didn't know anything about community college athletics.

I learned very quickly.

We had a pretty successful program at Suffolk.

I was on the Selden campus, the Ammerman campus.

Part of the reason I took that job was I also got involved in administration there and student affairs as an assistant dean.

But I was also in charge of the region.

NJCAA sports is broken into regions, and I became the chair of the region for that.

Suffolk was in and kind of spelled out, I think, my future as a commissioner.

But it was, again, an amazing place.

I still have friends from those days, friends from those days at all my schools, but I was only there a short amount of time, but I learned a ton.

And then the East Coast Conference had come talk to me.

You know, I have a.

Had an emotional connection to the.

I've spent 12 years as an AD in the conference, and they were.

They needed to stabilize things a little bit.

They were.

The conference was going to be down to eight members, and so we needed to find some new members.

And, you know, Division 2 athletics in the Northeast is unlike.

Or at our conference, it was unlike a lot of, you know, other conferences around the country.

We didn't have football.

We, you know, we played some sports and we were very successful in sports like lacrosse, both lacrosses and soccers.

And we had, we did pretty well as a conference.

But you know, in five years, and then I'll, and then I'll take a break.

But in five years we brought in, we were pretty successful.

We brought in five.

Well, I'm sorry, in the 16 years I was there, we brought in five new schools.

But the other part is lost five schools during that time too.

You know, we had schools like, like that, like Southampton College, like Adelphi was a part of that conference and then Liu, CW Post was in there.

And so a lot of, a lot of changes in New York, New York Tech that dropped their athletic program.

So you know, it's sort of a microcosm of kind of where what's going on in college athletics in some ways right now and the challenges in higher education as a whole that some of our schools weren't able to maintain, well, not stay open or decide that athletics wasn't going to be a focus for them.

And so like New York Tech did, you know, so tons of change.

You know, when we think about, I say it's a transformative time in athletics now, but this has been going on for a while and there's a, there are a ton of challenges out there for schools that, smaller private schools, but even, you know, public schools in the New York metropolitan area that are challenged with enrollment, are challenged with, in making decisions on sports and divisional play.

And so, you know, it's not only happening at the big time athletic programs.

Everybody's dealing with change.

Bob, can we just be a little specific?

We're talking about schools like Dowling, Southampton no longer around.

NYIT cuts athletics, you lose schools like New, New Haven, Adelphi out of the ecc and then you have to go out there and try and get schools like D.C. and up in Buffalo and Staten island and you're trying to grab schools.

What is a typical budget like at a Division 2 level, you know, from top to bottom, you know, let's just say in comparison to a Division 1 school.

Well, you know, and again, because it depends on which schools we're talking about.

And it ran the gamut even within the ECC in Division 2 you need to have a minimum of 10 sports and either five men, five women or six women, four men.

And in the ECC we had schools that were right at that 10 that made that decision for a few reasons.

One would be for financial reasons because they were, they didn't feel like they would be able to fund a larger program or because they wanted to focus on being as good as they could in those sports that they had.

And so those budgets would probably be at the lower end, both in terms of operating and scholarship, because, again, you know, schools would make their own decisions about how much they wanted to invest in scholarship money.

Vision.

And then.

But then we had schools in the conference like St. Thomas Aquinas up in, you know, Upstate and Orange.

Yeah.

In Sparkle and Malloy, you know, who have added a ton of sports over the years because their strategy was trying to strengthen enrollment through college athletics.

And so in Division 2, there is no requirement.

Every scholarship was a headcount sport.

So you could take a chunk of money and divide it up as many ways as you can.

And if enrollment was the key, you could use athletic aid as seed money, you know, to package students, to build a roster.

Division 1 has gotten into that area a little bit more now with some of the rule changes.

But so, you know, in terms of operating budget, you know, at one point I should tell you that, you know, Mike mentioned in terms of, you know, our local Division 2 athletic conference, and for a long time, the majority of the schools in the old New York Collegiate Athletic Conference and then the east and then changed the name to East Coast Conference were local.

We were the most closely located Division 2 conference in the country.

At one point, when we started losing those schools you mentioned, Chris, we lost Concordia.

We lost.

As I was coming in, Adelphi and Concordia were leaving.

Those athletic directors were friends of mine, but they had made that decision and they felt for their own needs and their own direction.

They felt they needed to make a change into other Division 2 conferences, but we needed to continue.

And so at one point we were eight.

And then, as you said, we added University, District of Columbia, and then later Roberts Wesleyan from Rochester and then Damon from Buffalo, and then d' youville came in from Buffalo.

And then all of a sudden our footprint was very different.

And you could imagine the stress that that could create on time travel.

Travel on budgets, and continues to, you know, it's not an easy.

But if you need.

Truly, there are.

There's Maybe one or two independent schools in all of Division 2.

Maybe one.

And you need to be in a conference for a lot of reasons.

Scheduling, access to post season, you know, just viability of a program, you know, to meet, you know, in the old days of traveling around.

And the other part is that in the old days that I used to talk about, you know, when I first started at St. John's you know, St. John's would play, you know, against, you know, CW post or pace or a lot of those schools had, for example, Division 1 baseball back then.

New York Tech.

New York Tech.

And you could fill out your schedule with, with, you know, other smaller schools.

Not today.

You know, you can't do that today.

There's the.

You can't do it today for, for, you know, for post season opportunities.

You can't do it because you're recruiting athletes and they don't want to hear about playing the local D3 school down the street.

And so that's very challenging.

There's a major gap in some ways in most places between Division one and Division two.

Much smaller between two and three.

And then there are programs around the country in Division 2 which are, you know, really probably closer to Division 1.

Programs than not some in the Midwest especially.

Yep.

Yeah.

Grand Valley and schools like that.

Yep, definitely.

Again, we're talking to Dr. Bob Dranoff, recently the head of the East Coast Conference, retired, and now he's teaching over at St. John's in their graduate program.

And Bob, as you were mentioning some of the schools, I think I came up with a link that we need to think about here.

You mentioned Dowling, NYIT and Southampton.

I coached at all three of those and now they're all closed.

I think I got to stay out of division, too.

NYIT is still there.

They just don't have athletics.

Well, at least athletics, yeah, they dropped there at Grim Reaper, but I think.

You could still take credit for that.

Well, I appreciate that, but you know what, I know we're kind of making light of it, but let's take a school like NYIT who unfortunately, you know, had again, had success, had a Division 1 program drop their athletic program.

You know, you're talking about budgets and this is real stuff, especially when you're in a conference where you're traveling up to Buffalo and, you know, all around.

And while it's not flying across the country, still these budgets are worth, you know, talking about and really take up a good chunk of money.

I don't have to tell you about that.

We see recently some schools are even going.

St. Francis, I believe in Pennsylvania, went Division 3 to Division 1.

Hartford a couple of years ago, Division 2.

I'm a big believer in it.

I spent a lot of time in it, as did you.

Does Division 2 have to prune itself, change a little bit or where it's at right now, is it really going to be able to sustain that niche, do you think?

You know, even before I retired a couple years ago.

I was on the NCAA Division 2 Management Council for a long time.

It's the body that helps make a lot of the decisions and represents the institutions and the conferences in Division 2.

And so I was part of a lot of discussions and a lot of reviews of plan.

I would say to you that Division 2 and you know, I'm biased.

Like you, Mike, I'm biased.

I feel in a lot of ways it's almost the perfect concept of college athletics in that it does permit schools that are committed to being really strong athletically to give scholarship money.

And it's not just to have strong athletics or, you know, successful teams that are winning national championships.

But the idea behind it is schools are using that money to maintain programs, to build programs, to attract students to their school.

But the idea always behind Division 2 was a concept of balance that, you know, the concept is there.

You know, the reality is sometimes, unfortunately, I think in college athletics we've gotten to the point that, you know, most people think that athletics has to be year round, college athletics has to be a year round effort.

But in my mind, I think Division 2 is a perfect spot because it doesn't require students traveling all over the country to compete.

It's a little bit less of an emphasis on the full time athletic program and it looks for students to be able to really get involved and be part of other things on their campuses.

So I'm pretty proud of Division 2 in my time there.

So I think that it has the right concept.

I think though, like a lot of other things in higher education and college athletics, we look around and we see change at one level and then all of a sudden everybody else feels like they have to follow along.

Division two is growing significantly.

I also at one point was the chair of the Division 2 membership committee and Division 2 was growing at a pretty good clip and that seems to have, you know, quiet it down a little bit.

But part of, you know, you're right, schools have closed, schools have moved.

New York Tech, I still recall getting the call from their president when they announced they were dropping athletics.

They made the decision.

It was, it was during the COVID two years.

People, you know, the schools were challenged enrollment wise and financially.

They were making tough decisions.

And I think New York Tech felt that in order to try to come up with some significant savings that this could help them.

That was the second time they dropped.

Yeah.

Athletics in the history of the.

Of the.

That's right, yeah.

Institution.

I remember they dropped it when I was the AD over at Old Westbury because Tech used to use our gym at Old Westbury to play their basketball games.

But, you know, I. I think that schools look at athletics for lots of reasons.

I mentioned enrollment, you know, even at the.

Even at smaller institutions, you know, schools use it as a way to build morale, to build connections with their community, with their campus community, you know, to connect more with the general student population.

Very few Division 2 schools are making any kind of significant money, maybe a little bit of sponsorship money here and there, maybe, you know, from their streaming contracts, because even Division 2 schools now get some money from that.

But it's not like they're driven, you know, to be raising money for nil.

And there's no revenue share money going on with student athletes.

But so there's so much value, I think, to college programs.

But I think some other schools are being realistic about what they can afford and where they can compete and what their future is.

You know, within the Northeast region, a perfect scenario, a perfect picture is the Northeast tent.

Conference Commissioner Julie Rupert is a close friend of mine.

They have.

They had grown significantly, but in the last five or six years, they're all going.

I'm not even sure what the.

Yeah, I'm not sure what the number is now, but they've.

They lost New Haven last year, and then more recently, just a couple of weeks ago, St. Anselm, which was.

They're moving to Division 3.

Why do schools move to the Division 3?

Well, maybe because of the scholarship budget.

They don't.

You know, they feel that they could have a savings there, even though a lot of schools look at scholarship, again, like I said, as seed money.

We could give a little bit of money, and then maybe that grows our population.

St. Anselm's felt that they are better served, and they're serving their students and their community better by being in Division 2 and focusing more.

Less on athletics and more on academics, which, you know, you can't fault the school for moving in that direction either.

But that's been a big blow to the NE10, which was a powerhouse for a long time.

Bob, we love all your answers, and you've done a good job with all this.

I have a quick one that, you know, we forgot.

One school in the ECC that had merged, and that's CW Post, and they merged with LIU Brooklyn.

And I'm sure you saw recently that there were some situations where for years they basically were doing a bad job clerically.

How do you really have a situation where you're merging a Division 1 and a Division 2 school and put one person in Charge of all the paperwork.

I know you've probably worked with so many people.

I mean, we can even talk about the late Clyde Dowdy.

Like you've worked with some great people.

How does two schools merge into one and have that many bad situations of clerical work when now they're on three year probation?

Yeah, I, well, listen, so what was going on?

And even before years ago, when Southampton was still open, they were part of the, the Liu system too.

So you had two Division 2 schools and you had D1 Liu.

The decision.

So it really was.

Well, I guess maybe it could be termed a merger, but basically they closed down their Division 2 program and took all those, the sports and they just, you know, they said, okay, now we're just Division one.

And they've grown massively even since that time.

I don't, I don't know.

There are over 30 sports now that they're offering at LIU.

It's pretty, pretty crazy.

But how that happens is, I mean, I've read, you know, what they've said online, which was, you know, that was also during the COVID period.

It was during transitional period between, you know, pulling the programs together and, and you know, I'm not going to get into the business.

I did still hold a sore spot in my mind from when I got that phone call too, from the president.

Sure.

That that was happening.

I could just tell you it was half an hour before they were going to make the announcement to the public.

And they, and they let me know so that I could tell all the other half hour in my conference.

But I'll tell you, this is what I would, whenever I would meet a new president in our conference.

I would say there's three ways you could get in trouble as you're running an athletic program.

Probably four.

Now, the first one was that you aren't focused on the health and wellness of your student athletes.

And so you need to have a good sports medicine program.

You need to have coverage.

The other one is you could, if you don't do a good job running events and making sure your facilities are safe and because you know that could lead to lawsuits and fights and just not a good experience for the student athletes or the families that come to games now and then.

The third one always was compliance.

You know, it's.

You don't do the work that you have.

And listen, it's not easy work.

There's a lot of requirements, there's a lot of expectations, there's rules that change a lot.

And so you need somebody that's on top of it.

Because, again, who gets hurt in there?

Your student athletes could get hurt, coaches could get hurt, and the institution's reputation could get hurt.

And the fourth one now is that if you're not bringing in enough money, because, you know, the world of.

Especially at the higher levels, the world of the athletic director really, really is more.

Is almost all about raising money and not a lot about all the other things.

So, Bob, just one last question before we let you go.

And we thank you for all your insight.

Finish up on kind of a happier note.

And it was a lot of fun back then, I have to say.

Even the one year that I spent there, such a different time.

Can you say or recall one really outstanding, shining moment from your time at Dowling?

I'm sure you have so many, but is there one that sticks out from that time?

Because there were so many successful teams and.

And programs and things, despite the lack of facilities and travel budgets and all those things.

Is there anything that stands out to you?

You mean, besides meeting you?

You're making me feel good.

After I made that Division 2 comment that I was a grim reaper.

Thank you.

Were you.

Were you playing a sport?

Just remind me what you were doing.

When I was.

When I worked for.

For Phil Stern as the women's basketball assistant coach.

Get out of here.

Yeah.

Get out of here.

Holy man.

30 Years ago.

That's.

30 Years, Bob.

Sorry, Mike.

I'm sorry.

I thought it was Chris saying that.

Mike.

No, no, no.

Oh, we sound so similar.

Yeah, that's me.

That's me.

You guys do.

Yeah.

So I.

Well, yes, of course.

And I'm like.

I'm not going to say it was.

Phil Stern was the.

The highlight of my.

My time at Dowling.

I will tell you that.

I'm not gonna.

I'm not gonna tell you that it's any specific moment.

Okay.

You did have national championships.

We were successful.

You knew you won a couple of commissioner cups there, which was the overall success of athletic programs.

I will tell you that.

I think the most.

The greatest part for me was how hard we worked and how everybody bought in and student athletes, coaches, administrators.

I didn't have a lot of administrators.

No.

But, you know, we.

You know, it was just a matter of that we tried to do things the right way.

We didn't always get it done, but there were so many good people that came in through the door.

People like you people like, you know, all those coaches and the student athletes, I gotta tell you, some of them I still hear from today.

So hopefully we did the right thing.

Well, it was a great place to work and coach for and coach against.

And you've been such a great advocate for college athletics over the years and such an integral part of things locally.

And, you know, your impact on Division two, on the committees and everything else.

We could spend probably another hour going through it.

Hopefully we can have you on again.

But I can't thank you enough.

You know, Chris and I really, it just is college athletics, as we said at the beginning, it's ever changing, ever adjusting.

And to have someone like you who we can kind of reach out to and get a good reality what's going on, it's just invaluable to us.

So thank you again.

We wish you all the best.

I hope you get a little time off once the semester ends.

Are you teaching this summer or do you have some time?

No summer good for you.

Getting my grades in this week, but, but yeah, anytime I could.

You guys want to talk again, I'm happy to do it.

I, you know, I got a chance to listen to the program a couple of times after we spoke, Mike, and very impressive and you guys are real pros, so I'd be happy to help out if you need me.

Well, again, we truly appreciate it, Dr. Bob Dranoff, and be well and enjoy the summer.

And I'm sure I'll speak to you before, before then.

Thanks.

Okay.

We will catch up soon, most definitely.

Thank you so much.

Just a great segment right there from and really, it's just a great guy.

He's as nice as he sounds.

Perfect.

Yeah, you don't find anybody that says a negative word about Bob Dranoff for a good reason.

So we're going to take a quick break.

We're going to come back in the second hour.

We're going to have A.J.

Rovener join us, talk a little Knicks, Mets and probably some Yankees in there as well.

Foreign.

You're listening to Sports Talk New York.

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You're listening to Sports Talk New York on Long Island's wgbb.

And now back to the show.

Welcome back to the second hour here of Long Island Sports Talk, New York wgbb.

Once again, I'm Mike Widone joined by Chris Caputo, my co host.

Had a great segment with Dr. Bob Duranoff talking some college athletics and all things Division 1, 2, 3 junior colleges.

Really just an encyclopedia of knowledge on sports and gave us a great education.

But we're going to kind of come into the current day now.

New York Knicks.

We're going to talk specifically here with AJ Rovener, who I'm sure watched the game today.

You got the broom out four game sweep of the Philadelphia 76ers.

And Cap, just before we welcome AJ I think two weeks ago we were talking about the struggles of the Knicks and I don't think they've lost the game since then.

Seven in a row.

Unbelievable.

You know, a very talented team when they put things together.

And we, you know, we, we were talking about that, but I think I had said to you like, I think if they can get a couple of guys going that this team could take off.

And I saw them, you know, being able to possibly hit their stride.

So it is interesting to see how two weeks can really change how the playoffs look.

And now the Knicks have put their head down and just gone in and won home games, won road games and really, Mike, two impressive closeout games because you had the Hawks that they beat by 51 and then today they won by 30.

But let's be honest, that was another 40 something.

So AJ joins us today.

AJ Rovener, works at Madison Square Garden, watches a lot of the Knicks.

How are you doing today, A.J.

Great.

Thank you guys for having me on.

It's always fun and to be able to live out the experience at the Garden, it's really special.

Even the watch parties, I mean it's all, you know, I talk to my friends about and the friends that I work with there, that it's such a different experience and vibe.

You know, it's for those fans that maybe can't necessarily have that experience live.

It's all the true fans that are outside having fun and to be able to bring that inside, it's really cool and unique and I was there today, you know, they'll announce the starting lineup.

Still the Nick City Dancer there.

It's all in game production.

Just it's not the game on the floor, of course, it's where they're playing.

But it's been a lot of fun and blessed to see it live.

How many fans show up for like a watch party?

So today we had about 12,000 and usually expand like 12,000 at a watch party.

That's more than the Nets get for a game.

So the first round is really the one hundreds only and the next round we expanded up to row 17 of 24 in the 200s.

And I remember last year in the conference finals they went all the way up to the bridge.

So I'm expecting higher attendance, a little bit more of a late arriving crowd, but they pretty much hit capacity.

It's for a good cause.

$10 Per ticket all goes to the Garnet Dream.

So very cool stuff.

Yeah, that's cool.

And as far as I know the the Knicks would not be starting the next round against either the Cavs or the Pistons until at least next Sunday.

Is that right?

I know you have to follow the schedule for sure.

So it's all depend on that Cleveland Detroit series.

It could start as early as next Sunday and depending on how long that series goes, it could start next Tuesday.

But that's great for the Knicks.

I know some fans can be skeptical like hey, too much rest is not good.

But listen their second best offensive player in these players, OG Anunoby, who's been just fantastic and so important when the Knicks went down two one, he's such a silent force.

He should have been on the NBA all first team defensively.

I mean they're going to need him down the stretch and to get him extra rest.

And the Knicks still be able to take care of these two games in Philadelphia without him.

You know, I think all Knicks fans should be hoping that series goes to seven and Cleveland pulls it off because then they're going to have home court throughout until they would have to play, you know, what's most likely going to be the Thunder or Spurs in the NBA Finals.

So A.J.

You mentioned, you know, when the Knicks went down 2:1 to Atlanta and at that time, you know, people were like any New York fans talking about Mike Brown and you know, was he the right choice?

And maybe if the Knicks lose he's going to go and Billy Donovan comes in and all that kind of stuff.

Anywho, you know, here we are, you know, a couple weeks later and you know, certainly he, you can't take away what he's done.

But I want to ask you this question.

If the Knicks don't by some chance, and I think it would be a major, major upset if they didn't at least make it to the Finals.

Any issue with Mike Brown or is he, you know, by this impressive run here has he solidified himself as the future, you know, at least for a couple years here as the Knicks head.

Coach, to kind of backtrack, you know, before I really get into that, you know, the Knicks only lost those two games by a point, you know, and all their wins have been in such decisive fashion.

And most recently, I mean, in game one against Atlanta, they blew them out.

And then in games four, five, and six, they weren't close.

And then in game two, that was really the only close game in this series.

They.

I mean, their average point differential victory this series was 27.

So, I mean, just not competitive basketball.

And to answer your question about Brent, I certainly think he wouldn't have been the coach of the Knicks if they lost that first series.

But winning seven in a row, I mean that.

And I mean, they're just.

I remember talking to just my, you know, fellow co.

I mean, the games are just not competitive.

Like, they're just demolishing teams.

And so, I mean, I would say his job is safe, but I was talking to my buddy Joe on the train ride home.

If they don't win this series, he didn't do anything more than Thibodeau did.

So it's a very, very interesting conversation you have to have because it's just a ride of momentum they're going on right now.

I mean, it would definitely be heartbreaking if they couldn't get to the finals.

AJ the three Pointers have been a major success for the Knicks.

I mean, today, you know, putting up 11 in the first quarter and tying a franchise postseason record for the game.

Why is it that now, all of a sudden, it's not just part of their offense.

It has basically become the main focus point of their offense?

Well, Mike Brown was very adamant about shooting the three, and I think that the Knicks have really just taken that in stride.

I mean, there's just so many contributors.

When you have all five guys in the starting lineup that could shoot threes.

Josh Hart, shooting the best he's ever had from.

Has from three.

And then you go to the bench, they're just so much deeper than they were last year.

Jose Alvarado is that spark you got for nothing.

And he could shoot the three.

Landry Shamon, a guy on a veteran minimum, could shoot the three.

Deuce McBride, who's not son, could shoot the three.

Jordan Clarkson, another guy we got on the veteran minimum, you know, just sitting out there in the summer, he could shoot.

So, I mean, there's just.

So there's a plethora of options of guys that could just flat out shoot the basketball.

And if it's not one guy, it's another guy.

This is just the depth that they've built.

And I think that with the Thibodeau Knicks, they just ran out of gas last year.

They just weren't deep.

I mean, all five stars are playing over 40 minutes.

I mean, Carl Anthony Towns, like, hasn't played.

I mean, he's played like, you know, foul trouble, but, you know, he's Devin wanting to just shoot the three.

So, I mean, there is just.

There's so many options and so many different guys that could take over again.

I mean, Deuce McBride, 25 points today, just.

It's a really fun team to watch, and you can genuinely just see them molding together at the right time.

I think that's right, Mike.

I think, you know, they are a fun team to watch.

And you got guys like, you know, McBride and then you have, you know, Tyler Colic plays his role now.

And the crazy part is they're up 30 something.

Yeah, they stay up 30, you know, they go up 40.

You got Landry Shamut playing 12 minutes, scoring 12 points.

Like, that's the role for these guys.

You know, he's shooting like 67% from 3.

And you need to put guys in situations where they're role players and everybody has their niche and they know what they do.

Not like, oh, somebody got hurt.

And now you have a guy going in, playing 25 minutes, you don't need that.

And he hasn't played.

And I think we were talking about that the Knicks were throwing lineups out there that they had never put together during the regular season.

And I think that was something that Mike Brown talked with probably Brunson and Gent and all these, Brendan o', Connor, all these guys who are their assistant coaches and said, listen, we have to make sure that we have the right guys on the court.

So, AJ Let me ask you a question.

Since you're in the Garden so much and, you know, in the thick of things, if the Knicks were to pull this off and win the championship, would New York City, I don't even say it would be alive.

It would be beyond alive.

Can you take us through what you think it would be like in New York City for a couple days if the Knicks bull is off?

Yeah.

I mean, so it's funny.

So where I work at the guard, you know, sometimes the NYPD is very close to me.

And when the game starts, I'm going to be honest, you know, it's so hard to just not become a fan.

Right.

Like, you're there.

I've been Knicks fan my whole Life and things kind of wind down, you could really take it all in.

But I'll get into like a very deep conversation with New York Police Department.

I've been asking all the officers I've been seeing throughout this run.

I'm like, you ever just root for them to like lose like just so it doesn't get crazy.

And some of them are like, you know, it wouldn't hurt our case if, if they were to lose a feel.

And they just been playing so well.

And Plaza 33, which is their outdoor, not only do they have an indoor watch party with 12,000 people, there's a whole nother watch party outside which is completely, I mean it's pouring rain in Game 3, fans are out there soaking wet and ponchos, they're in there like sardines.

And just talking to the officers, they're like, this city is in trouble if they win.

I mean it's just going to be mayhem.

And then I was talking to one of the security supres in the arena and he's like, if they're going to win at all, it better be on the road.

He's like, we might not even be able to leave like if they want it all.

Good point.

Yeah.

I mean it's been so long, Ray.

The range of won one cup in over 80 years.

The Knicks last championship.

Walt Clyde Frazier's 82 years old now.

I mean just for 81, it's been a long time.

And back to back Eastern Conference finals appearances.

It's real and it feels more real than even did last year, I think.

All right, so obviously for home court advantage you would want the Pistons to lose and Cavs to win, but is there a certain team that you think the Knicks either match up well with or a team that you want to overcome?

If you are the Knicks, I think.

Both teams are just so differently constructed and for different reasons.

And I'll kind of go through why.

I think Detroit is more of a defensive minded team with Thompson and Duran really in that front court.

I think that brings a whole nother dimension.

And then with Cleveland, they're so guard based with Harden and Mitchell and that's why they brought Harden in and they got rid of Darius Garland because that core wasn't working.

So I think it's more of an offensive team of Cleveland.

Of course Harden has that track record that he can't win.

And the Knicks bounced Detroit last year.

I think they're very different in that way.

I don't know if there's a specific team that I want to Win or don't want to win, but I certainly just want Cleveland to win.

Not for the matchup.

I just think having home court, the Garden is so imperative and important.

Like last year, people let me line up against Boston better.

I'm like, why wouldn't you just want the home court?

It's like employees saying.

And I'm like, don't we want the money, too?

Like, we're going to be there, you know, so, you know, we're just gonna be there anyways.

So I. I'm gonna root for Cleveland.

I think they match up better against Cleveland.

The Horns a little older.

I think Brunson could probably take care of him more than Cunningham.

But I. I just feel good against whoever they go up against east, but honestly, I feel good against anybody they play.

They beat the spurs at home when they won, like, 20 or 21 or some crazy stretch.

They went toe to toe with the Thunder at home.

I was there.

I mean, they could be anybody, especially the way they're playing right now.

I agree.

I think that that's the case.

I just think that the Knicks just need to continue to take it one step at a time.

I do think the layoff is a little bit of an issue because it's going to be a minimum of seven days, if not more of them.

Not, you know, being in an active game.

But.

But I think once it comes, push comes to shove, thinking they're going to.

This is just my opinion.

They're going to be on the road for game one, playing against Detroit.

That's just my opinion.

I think Detroit's going to find a way to pull that out.

But it's.

What level is Cade Cunningham at?

Is he going to be above Brunson?

I don't think Brunson would be guarding him.

I think they'll put him on, you know, one of the other players.

But the question then becomes, you know, Tobias Harris and, you know, guys like Jenkins that shoot the ball.

You know, are they able to.

To limit them and deal with the physicality?

Because I think the Knicks have shown that the things that gave them problems, they were able to make changes.

So even if the Knicks went down, let's say, two one after three games, I still think they have a good shot in that series, even if they don't have home court advantage, because I think they've done a good job of finding where their problems are and making changes in the middle of a series.

And the one thing about Knicks fans, they travel, and they're loud, and they can be obnoxious.

Tell Philly that's.

And I mean, that's just the fact, like Josh Hart was like, this is not a sports town anymore.

Like, Knicks fans just travel and herds to Philadelphia.

And you know, like, for Knicks fans out, Detroit's not that far.

That's really talking to my boys.

Like, if Cleveland goes, like, they're not that far and fans want to travel because everywhere else is cheaper than New York.

I mean, that is just, that's just the truth.

And give him his flowers.

Mikel Bridges was phenomenal in this series.

He shut down Maxey.

That was the big deal.

I have an MSG group chat where we talk hoops a ton and I'm like, for the Knicks to really take control in this series, it's going to have to be Bridges on the defensive end.

And he just shut down Tyrese Maxey.

He did.

He shut him down.

I mean, as much as I love Brunson on the offensive end, he would even admit it.

He's a defensive liability and Bridges is that kind of guy that can really take over in the defensive end.

And I'm also going to credit Landry Shamon, a guy who wasn't in the rotation as you alluded to.

And he could really play defense on the wing.

He's a lengthy.

He could guard anybody.

Paul, George, Edgecombe, he can really move.

And I mean, if you.

There's a video, I believe it's after game Warner game too.

Like, he didn't play.

And in the back of the.

It's just him running sprints in the back, like, just like staying warm.

You know, something that a veteran, he could just soak his head like, hey, I've been in the rotation all year.

Now you're benching me, you know, and I mean, just a very fun player to watch and such a great shooter when he's on too.

And another guy, as I said earlier on the veteran minimum like Leon Rose has done such a great job constructing this team.

And it's great.

We don't have to talk about why or should we fire Carlos Mendoza.

We could talk about the positives of the New York Knicks.

So it gives us something positive to talk about.

AJ no doubt about it.

I mean, I watch them and I root my heart out, but it's a very challenging watch.

I mean, if you would have told me eight games out of the wild card, double digit games out of the National League east, and it's the middle of May.

I mean, not even the middle of May, it's really the beginning of May.

Yeah, but you're 25% through the season.

It's, it's truly insane.

But listen, I'm, I'm delusional.

I'm a die hard fan.

You know the Philadelphia.

I took a trip with my buddy yesterday, see the Flyers.

I was like $50 to go to game for like, let's make a day out of it.

I was off work, he was off work.

And they had a 2% chance after the Olympic break.

So listen, I think the Mets have like a 1.4 right now.

I mean it's probably even lower the OMG grimace year.

So hey, why not root and hope they could pull off a miracle, but they're talking about trading Peralta on June 1 and stuff like that.

So it could go downhill fast.

But as long as that guy's the manager, I can't, I can't see them making any sort of run.

Keep it positive.

Yeah, you know when I heard that too AJ about and it is a legit rumor that if they are out of it, getting rid of Peralta, when they traded for him, the excitement, you know, we finally we have the frontline starter, the ace.

And who would have thought that we would be having this conversation and if it'll be, you know, once again a fire sale and a start over.

I just don't get how upper management thought that getting rid of the entire coaching staff was getting rid of the entire coaching staff.

But keeping the manager was a good idea.

You know, getting.

You can say what you want with Alonzo and Nimmo and McNeil.

We could talk about that all day long.

But so much change, I mean, it was really, really rolling the dice thinking that everything was going to come up here, you know, opposite of snake eyes like it has.

I mean, do you think that was.

Do you agree with me that maybe there was a little too much change?

No doubt.

And when you look back on it, no matter what now, everyone was like, you know, Alonzo got paid too much money or this or that, or Stearns didn't look into it too much or all these different rumors you just read all around and you know, Alonzo really just blasted Stearns this last week, you know, absolutely blasted them.

It's impossible production to replace it's imp.

Like no power hitter in the franchise's history has been as good as him.

So getting rid of him, you know, he's gonna hit 35 homers, he's gonna have 110 RBI.

He's probably gonna play for better in Baltimore now he's raking.

He's on my fans Team, he's raking now, so, you know, and then McNeil, everybody want him out.

He's playing great.

Nimmo is a little cold, but the guys that they got to replace them are just so old.

And it's nothing against Marcus Simeon or Jorge Polanco.

I mean, who was great for the Mariners last year, but they're just.

They're on their.

They're on the back nine.

That's how I'll put.

They're on the back nine, and they're just old and there's.

And even if you try and get rid of them at the.

They're just not going to get much.

And, you know, Stearns looks like a complete, complete fool as bro lighting it up in Milwaukee.

And then we got two months of Freddie Peralta.

It's like, just dumb.

I mean, I immediately.

I looked up his contract, and I'm like, they don't resign them.

Stern's like a fool.

And it certainly looks that way.

It's just.

Yeah, it's.

Chris and I talked about this a couple weeks ago.

You know, I started watching the Mets going to games, you know, in the late 70s when I was, like, around 9, 10 years old.

And you could.

You could get two tickets for one on the rail and all that stuff.

I mean, I know with season tickets and corporations and boxes and whatever else, there's already so many tickets sold for the Mets.

But who's going to want to go to a game?

I mean, for what reason?

You know, one thing I'll definitely add, and.

And listen, I'm that fan that will go, no matter the record, no matter how many games that, like, I think there's nothing more fun than going with your pop.

And I know my dad's listening.

Like, scoring a game.

I've been scoring games since I was 4 years old at chasing, like, just.

It's my thing.

I know it's nerdy, it's past my time, but I just love doing it.

And, you know, I have season tickets for the team.

And the bottom line is that the Mets love to do dynamic pricing, which I don't know if you know what that means exactly, but basically, when the Met schedule comes out, there's certain colors based on what kind of game it is, like Marty and then like a lower tier.

So again, against the Twins on a Tuesday night or the Tigers coming up is the lowest tier.

But then the tight.

You know, the Yankees this weekend is the highest here.

They really try and get you on that dynamic pricing.

And the Mets do it half a season.

So with the.

Holt said, all right, we're going to be really good in the pennant race and we could just boost them up a little bit more.

So listen, it backfired on them.

Oh, yeah.

Which I'm happy about a little bit.

But they're like the only team that does this.

And it's just such a money grab.

It's not like our owner, I think, cares more about, you know, playgrounds and Catholic casinos and other things.

He doesn't really care.

He tried.

I bought Verlander, I bought Scherzer, I bought all these guys.

That didn't work.

Let's just start bringing more gamblers to clean.

That's how I think about it.

You're right.

I think it's naive to really think that this wasn't.

I mean, again, he has brought the money and whatever else, but I think it's naive for anybody to think that buying this baseball team wasn't part of this bigger grand plan to make this Citi Field area, you know, into this major gambling casino hotspot.

I mean, it's nicer than it has been, but it's.

As a businessman, it was definitely part of his plan.

No doubt about it.

And he did it in such a way that no fan can really think about it long term.

So, listen, our last owner was worse.

He gave money to a criminal in a Ponzi scheme.

So I can't really say he's any worse because it's almost impossible, you know, so, you know, like you know, signing Jason Bay and all these other guys that never panned out.

But I mean, listen, I think his days is prioritizing the method, at least putting his, you know, headspun, billions of dollars he makes towards the franchise.

I think those days are really over.

And I think he's focused on his other endeavors.

I mean, parking's $50.

You can't even park anymore unless you have a parking path there.

And, you know, I'm a seat to go.

So you.

I. I have a parking pass.

I know I let Chris go to one game, gave him mine, but, you know, there's a huge thing in the middle.

And I was talking to my cousin about this who, who loves going to games.

He's like, you know, in the middle of the summer, right?

If the Mets are out of it, at least, hey, you know, you could go to the parking lot for a one o' clock game.

You could fire up the grill.

You could have a couple drinks.

Your kids could play Whippleball or something.

Can't even do that.

Not anymore.

Something being built right in the middle cave and can't even have that fun anymore.

AJ thanks for coming on.

We gotta cut you off a couple weeks.

We're gonna have you come on and talk Giants draft with us.

So thanks again.

We appreciate it.

No problem, fellas.

Thanks.

I'm sorry if I talk.

No, no worries.

Thanks to AJ Rovener.

Thanks to Bob Drano.

You thank couple weeks, we'll be talking a lot football and some other things.

And we'll see where the Knicks are.

Thanks, everybody.

Cap, thank you.

And we'll see you in a few weeks.

Thanks, Brian Graves too.

The views expressed in the previous program did not necessarily represent those of the staff, management or owners of wgbb.