Host Bill Donohue looks back at memorable careers in hockey and baseball. Bill opens the show by talking with former New York Islanders goaltender Chico Resch, who shares stories about his journey from Moose Jaw to Long Island, including his early nerves, the origin of his painted goalie mask, and how he became known as “Chico.” He also recalls the excitement of playing at Nassau Coliseum and explains how teammates such as Billy Smith, Clark Gillies, and Bobby Nystrom, along with coach Al Arbour, helped turn the Islanders from a struggling expansion team into a championship organization.

Resch discusses the different personalities and playing styles on those Islanders teams, including Billy Smith’s natural instincts in goal and his own efforts to stand out and help the team. He also talks about the Islanders’ rivalries with the Rangers and Flyers, the strong connection between the team and its fans, and the difficult business side of hockey, including trades and roster changes.

Later, Vada Pinson Jr. joins the program and reflects on his father's outstanding baseball career. He highlights Pinson’s breakout 1961 season, his place among Major League Baseball’s leading hitters during the 1960s, and his Gold Glove defense. He also discusses the racism, negative media coverage, and other barriers his father faced, including the well-known incident involving sportswriter Earl Lawson. Pinson Jr. explains why he believes those issues may have hurt his father’s chances of being elected to the Baseball Hall of Fame.

In a special bonus hour, Bill talks with Savannah Bananas pitcher Frankie Moscatiello, followed by Barry Goudreau, an original member of the legendary rock band Boston.

Throughout the show, Donohue keeps the conversations relaxed and personal while giving his guests room to share their memories. The episode offers an entertaining look at two important sports careers and the people, challenges, and experiences that shaped them.

Takeaways:

• Bill Donohue moderated a relaxed two‑hour program in which he steered substantive interviews, cultivating an affable yet earnest atmosphere for extended reminiscence and analysis.
• Chico Resch reminisced about Long Island's communal fervor and explained how his painted goalie mask together with the 'Chico' sobriquet materially amplified his public persona and professional prospects.
• He delineated the performative and psychological dynamics of goaltending, portraying Billy Smith as a quasi‑phenomenon whose ritualized mentality and clutch orientation materially influenced playoff success.
• They unpacked the Islanders' strategic metamorphosis under Bill Torrey and Al Arbour, emphasizing the imperative for a secondary scoring nucleus and the sometimes merciless calculus of roster transactions.
• Vada Pinson III delivered a measured, data‑driven appraisal of his father's career, juxtaposing prolific hitting totals and defensive excellence against the institutional and media forces that complicated Hall of Fame recognition.
• He recounted racially charged episodes in Cincinnati — notably the Lawson altercation and insinuations of a 'Negro clique' — situating those incidents within broader patterns of regional prejudice and media power dynamics.
• They highlighted the mentorship and camaraderie among Black players like Vada Pinson Sr., Frank Robinson, and their welcoming of rookies such as Pete Rose, illustrating how interpersonal bonds shaped clubhouse culture and career trajectories.
• Collectively, the interviews foregrounded the entanglement of athletic performance, personal identity, and organizational decision‑making, offering listeners nuanced perspectives on legacy formation, memory, and the contingencies that define professional sport.

The views expressed in the following program do not necessarily represent those of the staff, management or owners of wgbb.

Live from the WGBB studios in Merrick, New York, this is Sports Talk New York.

Good evening and hello again everybody.

Welcome.

Welcome to Sports Talk New York on WGB here in Merrick, Long Island, New York.

Our engineer, Brian Graves, just across the way, righting the ship.

Glad you're aboard with us tonight.

Another two hour show for you folks tonight.

Up first, we welcome in the legendary Islanders and Devils goaltender Chico Reschedule.

Next up, we'll talk to Vada Pinson Jr. About the life and career of his father, the great Veda Pinson.

At 9 o' clock, we'll have some fun with Frankie Moscatello who is a pitcher on the wonderful Savannah Bananas.

Finally, we will switch gears for our sports loving rock and roll fans.

And welcome in former Boston guitar player, the great Barry Goodreau will join us.

So folks, I have got more than a feeling that we're going to have a great time tonight on Sports Talk New York.

Get it?

More than a Feeling Boston.

Okay, there we go.

Shut up and keep going as always.

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Well, our first guest hails from Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan.

He played most notably in his NHL career right up the road here with the New York Islanders at the Nassau Coliseum.

And he served as the color commentator for telecast of the New Jersey Devils games on MSG and msg.

I welcome to Sports Talk to New York tonight, Chico Rescho.

Good evening.

Hi, Billy.

It's so good to be able to talk to people from Long Island.

You know, my wife and my daughter, we grew up on Long Island.

It was really my first experience, you know, with hockey at a high level.

And I gotta tell you, Billy, I loved Long island back in the 70s.

The people, the atmosphere, you know, the old Coliseum and oh, it was just, it was like make believe.

A guy coming from Moose Shaw from Saskatchewan to Go to New York.

I'd never flown on a plane.

I thought, where is it?

I mean.

So anyway, just to make a long story short, Bill, I cannot tell you how special Long island is to the history of not only Chico Rich, but his wife Diane and his daughter Holly.

And like I say, we had some great teams.

That's always fun, right?

Winning's fun.

And then the fans just were so into it.

It was just a.

It was just a family feeling affair playing on Long Island.

And so it was just such a special place in my heart for Long Island.

Nice to know Chico.

Yeah, the Islander fans, definitely a special breed.

Different than the Ranger fans in a lot of ways, and we're proud of that.

So we'll take that with a grain of salt and let the Ranger fans stew and chew on that one for a while.

Tell us a little bit about Moose Jaw, Chico.

What's it like in Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan?

Well, first of all, Clark Gillies came up with a joke.

Clark Gilles, a great Islander who has passed on.

Now, he said, hey, you know where Moose Jaw is?

And I'd never heard this, and people say, no, where is it?

He said, six feet from the moose's butt.

I know, Corny.

I say, oh, Clarky.

Yeah.

And he always.

Clark Keeley's always had, like.

Because we were in the prairies, it was both grain and cattle.

And he'd say, I didn't have big calves when I played.

And he'd say, hey, Chico, did the rustlers get your calves?

You don't have any calves.

But he was a funny guy.

And we had.

But, I mean, Mooseaux just back then, it was a farming community.

You know, people just simple, not complicated.

They had a hockey team, so that was fun, but, you know, it was a great place to grow up.

But, you know, quite honestly, Billy, what I found, the hearts of the Long island people after you got to know them were very similar to the hearts of the people in Moose.

Everybody says, oh, New Yorkers are so outspoken.

They can be so abrasive.

And I never found that.

And I found out they say what they think sometimes, and you think, well, maybe you shouldn't have said that.

But they were always accommodating.

And I just love the people interacting with the fans.

And, you know, it all started in Moose Jaw.

And, you know, it was a great transition into the big Moose Jaw, which would be merit, or.

We lived in East Norwich by Oyster Bay.

Oh, nice.

Yeah.

Yeah, that was nice, too.

And so, yeah, it was just nothing but miles and warm feelings coming out of Long Island.

Nice.

Very nice.

Chico, do you remember your debut with the Islanders?

I do, but nobody else will because it happened.

I'm in the minor leagues in Fort Worth, and I'm thinking, I don't know if I'm ever going to get a chance because Jerry Deschardins was there and.

And Billy Smith, who was a great goalie, too, and Jerry was good.

But in, I think it was February, I got a call and Ed Chadwick was a coach.

He says, listen, you're going to get a chance to play with a big team.

Well, where are they playing?

They were playing in Oakland, California.

San Jose kind of plays out there now.

But at that time, they were called the Oakland Golden Seals.

Right.

So I went out there and Al says, you're playing, and, you know, it wasn't the greatest hockey environment, but I go out, Billy, and you know, there's only about 6,000 people in the stands.

And, you know, and I got beat 3 to 1.

Reggie Leach, I remember, scored a goal, but nothing significant.

So I thought, oh, that didn't work so well.

But Al said.

Arbor said, come on.

Going back to Long island, we're going to play the Minnesota North Stars one more.

Another game at home.

You're going to start that game.

So that's the game.

I remember the first home game at Nassau, and we won, like, five or six to two.

And they had JP And Jude Drouon, who eventually came to the Islanders and were so instrumental in our success.

But I remember that because I had a white mask.

I was clueless, but at least I won.

And so I thought, well, maybe I gave him something they can chew on to maybe think he could play in the NHL.

But, I mean, you never knew.

No, I wasn't a draft pick.

I was a free agent.

And so I never really knew.

I would just say, sometimes I'm in the NHL.

How did I get here?

Yeah, and that was humbling, but it was also a fun way to have gotten there.

There's two defunct franchises right there for you kids to look up.

The California Golden Seals.

The.

They had.

I love their old uniforms, and I think they had white skates.

They used white skates like Peggy Fleming.

And the Minnesota North Stars.

Another great team.

Minnesota.

Such a great hockey area.

And the North Stars were the team back then.

Just look those up, kids, and you'll get some more information.

We got Chico Resch with us tonight on the program.

Now, while you mention the mask, Chic, you have a pretty famous mask that you later developed, and people can Google that and get A look at it.

How did you come up with that design?

Or they can go up to the hall of Fame in Toronto, right?

It's up there.

Yeah.

All the painted masks and whatever.

Okay, so here's what's happened.

Here's how hockey's changed.

We had a guy, Joey, working in our clubhouse.

And he said, linda, my girlfriend, she's in high school.

They're in high school.

She's an artist.

You think I could take that white mask home over the weekend?

Because we didn't have a game Saturday or Sunday or Monday, and she'll paint it for you.

And I'm thinking, well, I don't know.

Everybody's just got white masks.

There's no real elaborate painted masks.

I said, but I was accommodating.

He was a good guy.

And I knew Linda.

I sure take it home.

So he brings it back.

We practiced Saturday.

Sunday was off.

Monday, he brings it back, Billy, and I look at it, and I said, whoa.

It had the long island down the middle of it.

The N and the Y was brightly colored.

And I thought, Tuesday night we had a game.

Can I really wear this, everybody?

And you worried more about other players on your team and other players and other teams that might say, oh, Chico, you're really hot dog, aren't you?

Yeah.

Oh, yeah.

You got the big basic mess.

So that's what I'm worried about.

So I'm.

I'm just chewing on it morning practice.

And I said, okay, I'm going with it, right?

And this is nowhere to lie, Billy.

So Tuesday night we're going out for warm up.

And there was a lot of people that came for warm up.

I had that mask on and I hit the ice and I would.

What I did was, Bill, when I was in the minor leagues, I thought, well, you got to do something different, just be noticed.

So I was one of the first guys.

Goalies used to come out first like they still do, but they would just come out slow and they would just meander out and they drop a puck or whatever and, you know, they practice, warm up two or three pucks.

But I said, I'm going to go flying out.

And so I started to be that part of my habit.

I would go down the Runway, out to the ice, and I wasn't just going to walk on ice.

Just started a little trot before I hit the door.

And then I would fly out on the ice and skate around as fast as I could.

Just.

I thought, you got to be noticed or else you're never going to make it.

But Anyway, Bill, when I went out and I had that mask on, there was a buzz among the early fans that were there to watch warm up, that I said, wow, they noticed it.

Yeah.

And then during the game, it was the same thing.

So it turned out two things that changed, really, my.

My career, in some ways, was that mask.

And then when Freddie Prince was Chico and the man and I kind of had mustache, I look Spanish, and I kind of look like him.

And the guys in the room said, he wants to be Spanish.

Let's start calling him Chico.

Everybody started calling me Chico, and the writers picked it up, and by the next weekend, I was Chico Resch, not Glen Resch.

And that changed me, too, because people like nicknames and they like that nickname.

And so those two things, the mask and the Chico, really made me at least known.

I still had to do it on the ice, but at least it was something that I could kind of feel good about, and that helped me play as well.

Yeah, well, you opened the door, Chico, for other guys to wear showy masks and painted masks.

Guys like Gilles Grattan on the Rangers had that Tiger mask, and Cheevers had the stitches on his mask up in Boston, and the guy it really became.

Another aspect of the sport was the goalies mask.

Absolutely, Billy.

You know, nothing much changed in the NHL like the jerseys, the crests were always the same.

But you're right, the white mask went to these painted and kind of creative masks.

And Julie Melosh had one that was really.

Unfortunately, it was a Ranger, and he didn't play long.

But, you know, the other thing is Billy talking about that when we first beat Philly, because they were the Broad Street Bullies, and then we beat the Rangers, that was when our fans kind of gave a sigh of relief and said, hey, we can get into this team.

This team's got some good things going.

And then if you remember that, that spring, and it wasn't fair to the Rangers, but the first round was only a best of three.

It wasn't a best of seven or a best of five.

So we beat the Rangers in a best of three, and that kind of did them in.

You know, Eddie Jocheman was getting older, and Derek Sanderson, and, you know, Raquel, all these guys were getting long in the tooth, and I always felt bad for them because that was kind of the end of the era where the Ranger fans thought the Rangers were going to win a Stanley Cup.

And, you know, we kind of disappointed and kind of killed that on them.

Yeah, it's a shame what happened.

To that Ranger club, Chico.

They built that club to win championships, to win Stanley Cups.

And like you say, those guys got a little older and that dream went out the window.

Guys, the gag line and Eddie Jockeman, they went to the Stanley cup finals one year.

That could have been it, but it wasn't.

And they had some great players back then, but you guys, as you said, the new boys in town.

Exactly.

And you know what really did them in the year before we played them, they were a much better team than Boston.

Excuse me, Philly, but you could intimidate.

I didn't like the rules, but I remember when David Schultz grabbed one of the Rangers behind the net and just pummeled him and nobody went to his aid.

And that turned that series around.

I think that was Dale Rolfe, Chico.

Yes, Dale Rolfe, exactly.

Billy, you know your history.

But here's what.

Here's the game changer for us Islanders.

So, you know, we didn't win much the first two years, and we started out that third year when I was a rookie, and we'd win some games, but, oh, how are we going to handle those Broad street bullies?

Are we going to be intimidated?

But we had Bobby Nystrom, we had Gary Howard, we had Clark Gillies, we had a couple other tough guys.

So when they started those antics, we pummeled them.

I don't mean we just beat them.

We pummeled them.

And I remember the games in Long island, the place was going crazy because we were beaten.

Not only beating them on the scoreboard, Billy, but we were beating them on the ice.

Yeah.

And that gave us confidence and.

And it kind of settled the Flyers down where after that, they didn't just try to beat us up and intimidate us.

And, you know, and that was a turning point as well, the physical aspect of what we had there.

And like, Bobby Nystrom, great guy.

Gary Howard, nice guy.

Clark Gillies, I told you, he's funny.

And so they could be tough, but they were also great guys.

They weren't like goofballs.

No.

And, you know, so that whole Islander team just grew into a family.

And quite honestly, the fans were like our parents.

You know, they would come out and support us and encourage us and, you know, they were there for us, win or lose after that.

And that's what I mean, it was just.

It was my.

Yeah.

During that run, Chico, you're exactly right.

Yes.

Chico Resch is with us tonight on Sports Talk New York.

Now, you ended up for a while sharing the goal with Billy Smith.

How did you feel about that?

And how did you feel about Billy as a goaltender?

Well, I'm glad you brought Smitty up because we were good friends and we are still good friends.

But here's the thing.

Smitty was unusual, as you know, he would chop guys he didn't like.

Sometimes he'd like.

I remember we were on the road and some fans after the game would say, hey, Smitty, can I have, Billy, can I have your autograph?

He says, no, you're up there bullying me during the game.

Enough on my autograph.

Yeah, like, he was tough, right?

But he and I were good friends.

And this is now he's changed as he's gotten older.

He's in the hall of Fame.

But here's what I would say.

Billy, you've been around sports and fans have watched sports.

Certain players are phenoms.

Don't ask me why.

God gave them a talent that even they don't understand, like Bobby Orr, Wayne Gretzky, Mario Lemieux, and in baseball and football, they don't even understand why they're so good, but they're phenoms.

And all I will say is, Billy Smith was a phenom goalie, but he didn't know why and he couldn't translate why.

I remember asking him, watching him play.

And I mean, Montreal Canadiens won four Stanley Cups.

They were really good.

Other teams were really good and they had great players.

And I would say, Smitty, you know, in that situation, that three on two or whatever, guy's coming down and he takes it in the corner like, what are you thinking?

And he said, I don't know.

He said, I'm not thinking any anything.

I, I, I'm just doing what I do.

But Billy, what he did was generally the right move, but he didn't know why.

He couldn't explain it to me.

And, but he just was this phenom, and that's why he won four Stanley Cups, because his biggest thing was he always thought the other teams trying to take money out of my pocket, and I'm not going to let that happen.

And so, you know, that's just the way he was.

He would sit in the locker room, he wasn't thinking of, oh, here comes Gila Fleur down the winger, or Mario Lemieux or some of the great players.

Wayne Gretzky, he, he wouldn't think of the game.

Until the referee blew the whistle.

Because I asked him.

And I said, well, when are you getting fired up, Billy?

He said, when the referee, back in the day, remember you.

They had the gold judges behind each neck right down there.

And so what?

The referee, whoever it was that night, he'd pick up the puck, he'd blow the whistle like, okay, guys, we're going to start the game.

And he'd point at one goal judge.

And that guy would flick the light on, say, okay, I'm ready.

Then he would go to the other end and point at him, and he would flick it on.

And Billy said, that's when I got sights for the game.

And I said, what do you mean you got psych?

What did you do?

He said, billy, I'm telling you why I love Smitty.

Maybe wanted to be a forward standing in his crease, but because he'd chop you.

But he said, I would pick one guy on the other team of the.

Of the five starting skaters.

And he said I would get a hate on.

He'd say, that guy, Bobby Clark, Billy Barber, whatever, they're going to try to take money out of my pocket.

He says, those guys are not going to do that.

He got fired up by getting his hedge on.

And I said, come on, Smitty, it had to be more.

He said, I'm telling you, chico, that's all I did.

So here's the final thing.

So I said to Billy, I said, okay, Smitty, what about, though, when you were in a slump?

And I remember him saying to me, chico, I don't like that word.

Don't call it slump.

So I said, okay, how about you weren't playing as well as you.

You did other games, like, you know, your play had dipped.

What would you do to overcome.

You know, because we all struggled with our confidence sometimes, right?

Because it was simple.

Instead of one guy on the other team, I picked two guys to get mad at and hate.

I just come on Twitter.

He said, honest.

That's how simple it was.

But then when it started to play, it just came to him.

And he was a great goalie, especially in the playoffs.

Oh, my.

Yeah.

When I say he was a money player, Billy, that's what drove him, too.

They're not taking money.

Remember, we were making.

I was making maybe 65,000.

Mitty was at 95, 100.

And then the top guy, Denny Potts, and maybe was 175 or 200.

And he's a, you know, he's a Hall of Famer.

We didn't make much Money.

So in the playoffs, I remember we got like, we could get a bonus of like 20,000 or 25 if we won the whole thing.

And so it was a lot of money to us players.

And Smitty said, that's what drove me, that extra money in the playoffs.

I have to believe him.

But there's Chico Resch on Billy Smith, folks, on exactly why.

You can figure out why he was called a money goaltender.

Chico Resch with us tonight on the program.

Now, Bill Torrey comes in Chico, and he starts breaking up the gang.

He sends guys like Billy Harris and Dave Lewis to the Kings for Butchie Goring.

You get sent to the Colorado Rockies, not the baseball team.

Kids, look that one up, too.

Another nice uniform, the old Colorado Rockies.

You go there with Tambolini and how did you feel leaving the island, Chico?

Well, first of all, you're just.

It didn't come together the year we won the Cup.

In the first part of the year, have.

Billy Harris is there, Davey Lewis.

But here's what you have to understand in hockey, you need two centimen.

If you look at championship teams, they have a 1 and 2 centerman.

We had Brian Trache and Bossi and Gilles and Tonelli, but we didn't have a second centerman.

Right?

And so their top checking line, I remember Ronald did it really well.

They would just be all over those guys, shut those guys down.

We didn't have a secondary scoring unit.

So Bill finally realized, and Bill Harris was his first ever pick.

And he never wanted to trade him, but he knew that he needed a second line center.

So when we traded.

And I'm there, we traded for Butch going, and now we had Butchie and Bobby Bourne on one side and Johnny Tonelli.

We had two dynamic lines.

Teams weren't going to shut us down and we just took off, right?

And that was the key.

And then we won the Cup.

I'll just tell you.

Yeah.

And so, you know, we had a meeting before.

We were like, I had a great season and I.

But I didn't start the playoffs against L. A.

It doesn't matter.

But, you know, here's the way I look at it, Billy.

I was a good goalie, but I was average.

Billy Smith was a phenom.

He didn't know why he was so good, but he was so good.

And so it just unfolded.

I played some that year, but Billy really shone and we won the Cup.

But then the next year, Torian Arbor and Al Arbor was the greatest coach ever.

Ever.

Don't let anyone tell you it was a greater hockey coach than Hell Arbor.

We loved him.

And, you know, Brian Trache would throw the rookie, throw a pie in his face.

Imagine this, doing this to a coach because his birthday was in training camp.

Yeah.

And.

And most coaches would flip out, or they.

He'd think, oh, the players don't respect him.

But Trots got too close.

Brian did, and smashed the pie.

I'll see if I could still see it.

It knocked out back against the.

The clothes dryer.

And then it was all over his face.

And he said, trot, I'm sending you back.

Trotch was from a swift current, but he called Al, called it Speedy Creek.

He wants sending you back to Speedy Creek for doing that.

But we never lost respect for Al, but he could laugh at himself.

But when it was crunch time, oh, boy, you listened to him.

So that's what happened that second year.

We're going in the last game of the year.

We're advanced, we're playing Vancouver.

Somebody at home, Gordy Lane, got hurt, or one of the defensemen got hurt.

Kenny Morrow had been called up.

And then they traded me that Monday because they needed a defenseman, and they got.

Oh, the guy from Colorado, Billy.

He won two cups.

McEwen, Mike McEwen.

Anyway, he played two years.

He was a good player, but it was.

It was crushing because you love those guys.

I remember Al, I was on the bus, we were going to Winnipeg, and Lord Henning was the assistant.

He had retired.

He says, chico, Davey, come on.

I said, we got traded.

He shook his head.

But we went in, and this is nowhere to lie, Billy.

Al Arbor was crying when he told this guy, I'm sorry, but we've got to trade you to Colorado.

And they got that defenseman.

And so it was crushing.

You know, I was.

But, you know, I.

What do you do?

That's sports, right, Bill?

Yeah, that's the way.

That's the way it goes, Chico.

You're here today, gone tomorrow.

Yep.

And you know what?

After the Islanders won the cup, they kept some of those guys too long.

And then when they traded them, it was too late.

And I can see why GMs do that, but it's the cutthroat business.

Once you see the players lost that edge, whatever, you better trade them.

But it's hard when it's a popular player and he's done so much for the franchise, like Gillies and Tonelli and, you know, other players from that era.

So it was.

It was.

It was a lot of tears.

My wife and I, when we knew, oh, I just can still cry.

I loved East Norwich and all the people.

I gotta tell you.

Billy.

How much time do we have?

About a minute.

Okay, really quickly, we win the Cup.

Okay, so what they do is you stay out all night and, you know, you party.

We went this time, they went to Bill Torrey's house and we were celebrating.

So the next morning is.

Is a Memorial Day.

They're going to have a parade at Oyster Bay.

It's going to come up the hill by.

By East Norwich.

I. I took my wife and my daughter.

We're standing there, we with the crowd watching the parade come up and I look and who's leading the parade with a flag?

He's still in the same blue suit he had the night we won the cup.

Butch Goring.

Butch.

He's beating the parade in Oyster Bay.

I'll still never forget that.

And he had big heels because Butchie wasn't that tall.

And he had big blue high heel shoes on.

And he's marching.

But, you know, he made it to the parade, Chico.

He did.

He let it.

So, nothing but good thoughts.

I mean, oh, Long Island, I just love it.

But enough.

I'm going to start crying if I don't shut up.

Al.

Chico, always a pleasure to have you with us.

I thank you for taking time out of your Sunday evening to spend some with us here in Merrick.

All the best to you, Chico and the Devils, except versus the Islanders beat the Rangers, please.

I can live with that.

Thank you very much.

It was a real pleasure being on your show.

All right, thanks again, Chico.

See you, buddy.

Bye.

Long Island.

That is the great Chico Resch, ladies and gentlemen.

Up next on Sports Talk New York, we will welcome in a special guest, Vada Pinson Jr. Talk about a great ball player, his dad, Vader Pinson.

Stick around, folks.

You're listening to Sports Talk New York.

Sports talk, you're listening to Sports Talk New York on Long Island's wgb.

And now back to the show.

All right, folks, welcome back.

Welcome back to Sports Talk New York here on WGBB AM FM radio, live from beautiful downtown Merrick, Long Island.

Beautiful soft evening today.

Tonight on Long island, beautiful sunset, nice smell from the pizzeria wafting up.

Right, Brian A Couple of doors down.

Just a very pleasant evening and we're glad you're with us tonight.

Our next guest, he is the son of a great ball player, Veda Pinson.

He played Vader was a center fielder in MLB for 18 years, most notably for the Cincinnati Reds.

Four time All Star with the Cincinnati Reds.

He really, he combined power, speed and some really strong defensive ability.

I'd like to welcome to Sports Talk New York tonight, Veda Pinson iii.

Veda, good evening.

Thanks for having me.

I really appreciate the opportunity to talk about my father's Major League baseball career and more importantly, who he was as a person.

You know, a lot of people know my father, his statistics, but to me, he was my dad.

And as I've gotten older, I've come to appreciate more just how remarkable his major league baseball career was.

Well, he also had a very special relationship with hall of Famer Frank Robinson.

Veda, that I read about.

Frank said he finally made a close friend in baseball.

I believe they were roommates on the road.

They lived near each other.

They hung out together a lot and they ate meals together.

And Frank said he'd never been close to anyone before.

Felt good to be with Vader Pinson.

Yeah, that's right.

You know, a lot of people don't know.

They went to high school together too.

They went to McClimens High School in Oakland, California.

They played on.

They didn't play on the same team.

Because my father was younger than Frank.

But Frank actually played on the same team as Curt Flood.

And you know, all three of those guys were great friends in Oakland, California coming up.

That's interesting.

I didn't know that.

Vade.

A great fact.

Great, great trivia question there, folks.

Now, the general manager of the Cincinnati Reds at the time, Bill DeWitt, he made several successful trades.

Frank Robinson is the MVP.

Hit.323, 37 homers, 124 RBIs.

Vader Pinson hit a career high.343, 16 homers, 87 RBIs.

He also led the league with 208 hits.

And he was runner up in the National League batting race behind the great Clemente.

Right, Veda?

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's an interesting.

That is a very interesting season to.

Me because, you know, it sticks out.

You just heard those numbers.

Do you know my father also didn't make the All Star team that year.

Yeah.

That's amazing.

I was like, oh, you have a.343 batting average and you don't make the All Star teams.

I was like, yeah, that's rough.

We're speaking with Vader Pinson Jr tonight on the program.

Now, also in 61, Vader, your dad finished third in the MVP balloting.

Not too bad, behind a pair of hall of Famers, of course, Frank Robinson.

Robinson.

And the Giants, Orlando Cepeda.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

That was the year I thought.

I think that if my dad had won the batting title from Roberto Clemente, I think they.

They would have had to give it to him because he got a gold glove.

He, you know, on that.

And the Reds were like, Frank Robinson, my dad, and a lot.

So, you know, I, you know, it's amazing.

It was a wonderful year for them.

For him, you know, that was his best year in Major League Baseball.

Yeah, they went to the Series, played the Yankees.

Vader had a disappointing World Series, and he was the first one to admit that.

Only got two hits.

But, heck, to the 61 Yankees, that's not too bad.

Not at all.

Well, the 61 Yankees, you know, I actually had an opportunity to watch the whole Series, and that Yankees team was a really strong team.

You know, they had everything they needed, you know, and I think the Reds needed a couple more pieces, you know, but it was a great.

It wasn't a great series for the Reds, but the Yankees are starting to, I would say, you know, put it on the Reds that year.

Now, there was an incident.

Vane, I'll talk about.

There was a Cincinnati sports writer by the name of Earl Lawson.

He wrote that Vader would hit.350 if he would only bunt once in a while instead of going for homers.

Now, this angered Vader, and he took a swing at Lawson.

You know that story.

Yeah, yeah.

Yo.

Definitely.

You know, there was a big concern.

Yeah, well, you know, me knowing my father, it takes a lot to get my father angry.

Yeah.

Because if you saw the rest of his career, you know, he was there.

And, you know, Earl Lawson had a lot of other players take pokes at him.

All of them.

You know, you've got to do it with a lot of players.

And, you know, during that time frame, I think that during that time frame, because, you know, I've actually Posted pictures of that, that.

That situation on my Facebook page.

And, you know, I was shocked, you know, because I know that brought an urgency up to my mom.

They say, hey, you know, because of the time frame.

You know, I was like, wow.

Because that.

There's a picture of my dad at the police station with Frank Robinson.

Frank Robinson.

He has a concern look on his face.

And I remember I asked my mom about the situation.

She said, well, he came with.

Because, you know, they had people threatening my dad at that point also in regards to hitting her lawsuit.

You know, time frame in Cincinnati, Ohio, if, you know that the 60s, you know, wasn't.

So I guess you could say, you know, for black ballplayers during that time frame, because I've heard a lot, I know a lot of stories.

Oh, yeah.

About that time frame, you know.

But, you know, I think my father really regretted that because I think that plays a part in possibly not getting him into the hall of Fame because of the.

You know, as everybody knows, the media has a strong presence in voting who gets in for the hall of Fame at this point.

And Earl Lawson was a big part of that also.

Yeah, he filed charges against Vader Pinson.

And Vader considered that really the most embarrassing moment of his career.

Usually a mild mannered guy.

And you're exactly right, Veda.

Cincinnati could be very racially charged.

They're just across the border from Kentucky, which is considered the South.

And I know Jackie Robinson had trouble in Cincinnati as well.

So you're exactly right saying that Vader encountered some racial prejudice from white fans sending threatening letters to him regarding this incident.

And as we said, it was defused, but still, Vader was very embarrassed by it, which shows you the man that he was.

Vader Pinson Jr. Is with us tonight on Sports Talk New York.

Now, Vader rebounded in 63, perhaps his greatest all around.

He really bounced back that year, Veda.

Yeah.

Hey, you know, the only reason that was because I was born in October.

Ah, yeah, that's the reason.

Yeah.

He got his only son.

Yup, you're exactly right.

Yeah.

Great incentive for the man.

Right?

I want to bring up the great Frank Robinson again.

His autobiography, folks, by the way, if you want to look it up, Frank Robinson is called extra innings.

And he remembered that some writers reporting that Vader and Frank formed what is known, what was called at the time a Negro clique.

That is gnawing at the morale of the club.

So there's another little racial charge there from the Cincinnati press, and Frank called it nonsense.

Veda and Frank were kind of inseparable for five years before that, but often teammates like that weren't called clique members.

So I think this was another racial jab at Vada and Frank Robinson.

And, you know, it's funny because, you know, I talked to my parents, my mother about it, you know, and we're talking to dad, and I remember, you know, if you knew Frank Robinson and if you knew my dad and if you watched him play on the field, they were very, very professional.

They.

They held it together at all times.

And, yeah, my mother always said that she doesn't even know where that actually came from, you know, because, you know, but, you know, black ball players are an entire.

They always had to be cautious about people who approached them at certain times, you know, because, you know, you know, they.

I felt like my dad and Frank were very friendly at all times into their fans.

But then again, you know, just, you know, I.

You know, I collaborate.

I have a kid after.

What's a Negro click?

Because I remember them talking about it in our living room in our home, and they, you know, and they said it was lesson.

I remember when my dad and Frank were playing with the California Angels, Frankie came over, and we were all sitting down watching.

Watching a basketball game as he was speaking in.

And then, you know, I heard my dad and Frank actually talking about it, and they said they felt like they were just coming up with things to, you know, to be.

Because I think at that point when they did it, that's when they really wanted to get rid of Frank.

Right.

And I don't know what transpired, because Michael's a good guy.

I knew him personally.

And every time, you know, he would always say.

He said, you're starting to look more like your dad.

And you always touch me on my head, you know, you'd always shake my hand, and, you know, and I just don't.

I just don't understand it.

Yeah, because, you know, there are a.

Lot of things I don't understand.

When the Reds played, my father played with the Reds.

I was like, how are you?

You have a person, a man who runs 3.3 seconds to first base, have him, you know, the setup man for Frank Robinson, you know, and they could.

And they couldn't really avoid their opinions, and they never did, because, like Jackie Robinson, they had to put, you know, they had to perform a certain way.

There was no way at A certain point that they were trying to bring down the morale of the team because, you know, that wasn't them in the locker room.

Self defeating, too.

It's a self defeating action to do that too, Veda.

Exactly.

You know, so, you know, because every time when I grew up and I got older and I actually got had the opportunity to go into many clubhouses, you know, and I remember the first time I walked into a clubhouse and you know, my father got a lot of respect from the players and the teammates.

So, you know, I really would have loved to, you know, I actually did go into a red locker room, but I don't remember that because I was just a baby, all almost like a, you know, growing up, you know, and I would love to know where that came from, you know, what actually really transpired up to that point, because it got came to a head.

Yeah.

You know, also, you know, where, you know, when they, when they did trade Frank, you know, the thing is, is that the Baltimore Orioles really didn't want Frank.

They wanted my dad, but the Reds wouldn't give my dad up at that point.

Ah.

You know, because he was having some solid seasons and, you know, and it turned out great for Frank, you know.

Oh yeah.

Another MVP.

Couple of World Series.

Yeah.

Well, he called the GM.

The GM Veda called Frank an old 30.

He was 30 years old, but he said he's an old 30.

And boy, did Frank prove him wrong.

Yeah, yeah, he sure did.

That was something else, you know, and I was like, you know, you know, I would love to have been, you know, a little older, you know, just to be able to understand that time frame.

Because Frank was a great baseball player and he proved it when he left the Reds, you know, and he got better, definitely.

Yep.

And the numbers prove it.

Now 63.

Vader.

There was a rookie that was taking the job of a popular second baseman by the name of Don Blassengame.

That cocky rookie.

His name was Pete Rose.

Now, Frank and Vader welcomed Pete Rose to the Reds and no one else would.

And what do you remember your dad saying about Pete Rose?

You know, I remember.

I remember Pete as a, as a kid, you know, I remember when we were getting.

Well, later years, when we were getting ready to leave the race and Pete was, you know, I don't, you know, after the time frame, you have to look at how baseball was played at that point.

People fell in love with all of the players because they knew who it was going to be around.

Right.

They knew who was on 18, everything every year.

And When Pete came up, you know, my dad.

You know, my dad.

My dad and Frank love Pete to death, you know, and, you know, and I remember talking about, you know, hey, you know, when he came into the locker room that first time, he got the real cold shoulder, right?

Nobody.

Nobody wanted to.

Nobody wanted to be affiliated because they didn't want, you know, that.

That guy that.

To leave and.

And, you know, and Frank and my dad to come under their wing.

And it's funny because I have.

I have pictures that I'm going to be posting on Facebook shortly of my dad, my dad, Frank, Tommy Harper at our house at a certain point in.

In Ohio.

And it's funny because there's only one white guy there.

And guess who that one woman like is?

It's Pete.

Ro.

Yeah, Pete.

He said he was ostracized by his Reds teammates.

None of them would talk to him.

And Pete has chronicled in one of his books that the only players that took him in and welcomed him, showed him the ropes around the league, were the black ballplayers like you said.

Vader, Frank Robinson.

And I forgot Tommy Harper as well.

Yeah.

And even Jesse Gonder, also another one.

Yeah, A lot of those guys, you know, you know, you know, fell in love with, you know, he was a really good guy.

You know, I always knew that, you know, he would always speak, you know, and came over and, you know, and my mother always.

He was.

You know, my mother's.

Our families, they connected even after my dad left Cincinnati.

You know, my mom is.

And Pete's first wife were really good friends.

So, you know, I think I spoke with her on Facebook, I think, a couple of years ago, before my mother passed.

And, you know, she asked how my mom was doing, and I told her that she was doing well.

And it's like, wow, it's amazing, you know, that, you know, that took a lot of backgrounds, but, you know, Pete was Pete, you know, he's that guy.

Pete Rose is that guy that, you know, like, when you have that schoolyard pick, he's that guy that you want to have that first guy that you want to pick because you know he's going to give it.

Give it.

Draw.

Yeah.

Give it his all.

And, you know, I have a lot of respect for Pete Rose.

You know, he was one of.

He's one of the greatest hitters of all time.

He's in my top 10 Major League Baseball players of all time.

Yeah.

And rightfully so.

4,256 Hits speak for themselves.

And there's another guy who deserves to Be in the hall of Fame, of course too is Pete Rose along with Vader Pinson And Veda Pinson Jr. Is with us tonight on Sports Talk New York.

Now I want to give some statistics.

Veda.

His first five full season Jad in Cincinnati.

985 Hits.

That was more than the first five full seasons of Stan Musial, Willie Mays, Hank Aaron and Frank Robinson.

He averaged 197 hits, 108 runs scored, 37 doubles, 10 triples, 20 homers, 88 RBIs and 26 stolen bases along with a.310 batting average.

Now that's a pretty good five year span right there.

That's perfect.

Yeah.

Mm.

Yeah.

And for that time you're exactly right.

Decade I was like, that is, you know, that blows me away.

You know.

And if you look at where he stands in hits in regards to all time hit leaders, he, he's in the top, the top 75.

Right.

One through 75 at this point.

And you know, it just makes you wonder, you know, why, you know, he wouldn't be in the hall of Fame at the time because the era that he played in was, you know, surrounded by oh my gosh, look at how many guys from the 60s that are actually in the hall of Fame.

Right.

It was a real golden era of baseball.

Veda, you're exactly right.

And not only was your dad a great hitter, we'll talk a little bit about he Gold Glove winner.

And his career fielding percentage was.981.172 outfield assists too.

That's pretty good.

Yeah.

Because I could have that speed to get to the ball quickly, you know.

Now his top target among pitchers.

I don't know if your dad ever mentioned to you Vada, who really gave him a hard time or who he hit very well.

Now I'll tell you what I read.

Mike McCormick, the great giants pitcher was one of his top targets.

And he called Juan Marichal, of course, and Bob Gibson, both Hall of Famers.

And he said they both kept him off balance and they were his most difficult mound foes, those two hall of Famers.

Yeah, that, that's, that's, you know, that's on point because I know my dad went to St. Louis.

He said.

I remember him talking him in Prankster man, you know, I went to St. Louis.

I'm so glad I had to go to Gibson anymore.

Right.

Because and to figure out.

My father and Mr. Gibson were good friends, too, because I have a clubhouse side of my dad and Bob Gibson was like a comedian.

Yeah, he was a prankster.

Yeah.

People don't realize Gibson was a prankster.

There's that famous photo, team picture of the St. Louis Cardinals and Bob Gibson and Bob Uecker are holding hands in the first row.

And yeah, there was a little to do with that with the Cardinals organization.

Nevertheless, they had to take another photo.

But yet, how did your dad, your and your mom feel about leaving Cincinnati and going to St. Louis?

Well, you know, my mom was ready to leave Cincinnati when we first got there, to tell you the truth.

Yeah, because I think there was a concern.

My mother had a really concern because, you know, after my first couple, my dad's first couple of seasons in Cincinnati, my mom, my dad wanted to move to Cincinnati.

And because of the, you know, the way Cincinnati was, a diploma, there's no way we're moving to Cincinnati.

We're going to stay in California.

But when my dad went to St. Louis, my dad was.

Was happy.

He was, he was very happy because he was actually going to a team where, you know, Curt Flood was there and that's one of my dad's best friends.

Yeah.

You know, and Luke Rock.

Right.

And Luba was there also.

So, you know, they have.

The St. Louis Cardinals had a really good team, but that one year my dad again got injured and he really never fully recovered from that, you know, and the St. Louis Cardinals got rid of him that very next year.

You know, I was like, wow, one and done.

Yeah.

You know, so they were duvet.

They would do the Cardinals to have really a dream outfield of Vader Pinson, Kurt Flood and Lou Brock.

And as you say, your dad got injured and that really never came to fruition.

It's a real shame, but as you said, your dad never really bounced back.

Rusty Staub is one that I could think of off the top of my head.

But usually 2,700 hits and the statistics that Veda had is enough to get you into Cooperstown.

Now, following his playing career, your dad became a coach and a hitting instructor for, I believe, Seattle, the White Sox, the Florida Marlins.

How did you know he wanted to get into coaching?

Well, that was, you know, when his last year.

I remember his last year when he, he actually got cut with the Milwaukee Brewers.

That's when, you know, he, he received A phone call where he was actually, you know, gonna start up with the Seattle Mariners.

I remember him coming home and bringing the Seattle new met, Seattle Mariners new year.

And he, you know, my dad loved being the coach.

A lot of the players today that he coached are actually on my Facebook page.

And I know that they know my dad because they'll all, you know, they said that he gave them some great pointers on hitting and everything, and he loved coaching the game.

You know, I have a lot of pictures of my dad in the Detroit Tigers uniform.

You know, my dad always, I said my dad looked like a manager.

He never got to that position.

But he, you know, with a lot of the players, they really respected my dad and gave him a lot of his recognition on their time when they played them major league baseball, Right?

He was only 57 years old.

Way, way too young to leave us a great man like Vader Pinson.

Now, I just want to bring out one fact before we go, Vader, that the great analyst Bill James, in his historical baseball abstract, easy for me to say, ranked Vader Pinson 18th among center fielders.

And that's ahead of hall of famers Hack Wilson, Hugh Duffy, Max Carey, and Earl Combs.

So there's testifying from the great Bill James about just the statistics and the ability of Vada Pinson.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

You know, when you hear that, you know, I've even heard one of my Facebook followers, actually, so say they talked to Willie Mays, and Willie Mays said that during that era that my dad was the second best center fielder in the major leagues at that point out there.

Yeah, and deservedly so, folks.

Google Veda Pinson.

There's a nice article on Veda on the Sabre page, the SocietyOfAmericanBaseballResearch.org, sabre.org check out that on Veda Pinson and his statistics and just some stories about the man himself.

And Veda, it's been a real pleasure having you with us.

I thank you for taking time out of your Sunday night to spend it with us here on Sports Talk New York.

I wish you all the best, and we'll keep following the efforts to get Veda Pinson on the veterans committee ballots.

Okay, perfect.

Thank you for having me.

I appreciate you having me on.

And have a great evening.

You, too.

That's Vada Pinson iii, ladies and gentlemen, the son of the great Vader Pinson.

Up next, we welcome in one of those Savannah bananas.

Frankie Moscatello will join us.

Stick around, folks.