Host Bill Donohue welcomes Hall-of-Famer Andre Dawson, better known as “The Hawk,” to the show tonight for a great conversation about how baseball has changed over the years and what it means to our culture. Dawson shares his thoughts on sportsmanship, talking about the rise of taunting and flashy celebrations in today’s game and how it differs from the values players followed during his career. After that, Wally Backman, a key member of the 1986 World Champion New York Mets, joins the discussion to talk about team chemistry, mentorship, and the lasting impact of that unforgettable season. Together, they offer a fun and insightful look at how personal experiences shape the larger story of baseball. Tune in for an engaging discussion that bridges the past and present of America’s pastime.

Takeaways:

• Hall-of-Famer Andre Dawson reflects on his early influences and the mentors who shaped his baseball career, highlighting the significance of personal connections in the sport.
• Dawson discusses the origin of his nickname 'The Hawk', which was bestowed upon him by an uncle, emphasizing how a supportive family can foster talent and confidence in athletes.
• The conversation delves into the evolution of baseball culture, with Dawson expressing concern over the decline of sportsmanship and the increase in taunting among players in contemporary baseball.
• Wally Backman shares insights on the importance of teamwork and chemistry, asserting that success in baseball transcends mere talent and is rooted in camaraderie and mutual support among teammates.
• Dawson elaborates on his preference for being recognized as a Chicago Cub in the Hall of Fame, revealing the emotional connection players have with their teams and fan bases throughout their careers.
• The episode concludes with reflections on the current state of Major League Baseball, with both Dawson and Backman discussing the impact of analytics and modern strategies on the game's traditional values.

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Staff, management or owners of wgbb.

Live from the WGBB studios in Merrick, New York, this is Sports Talk New York.

Good evening and hello again, everybody.

Welcome welcome to Sports Talk New York tonight on wgvb, Merrick Long Island, New York.

I'm your host, Bill Donahue.

Stormy night here on Long Island.

Nor' easter coming on through, but we'll keep you occupied, keep you warm and dry here tonight.

Our engineer, Brian Graves, he's with us as always tonight.

Hello, Brian.

He's good to go.

And again, we're glad to have you guys with us tonight.

Up first, we will welcome back to the show the great hall of Famer, the Hawk, Andre Dawson will be here.

So relax and enjoy the show tonight.

Great sports talk waiting for you up ahead.

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Our first guest, he spent most of his career with the Expos and the Cubs.

He's in the Cubs hall of Fame, the Expos hall of Fame, the Nationals Ring of Honor.

Now, kids may wonder who are the Expos and why is this gentleman in the Nat's Ring of Honor?

Well, look this up on your tablet when you get a chance, kids.

The Montreal Expos, they moved to Washington, they became the Nationals.

So check that out.

Read about the history and you'll enjoy that.

It's an honor to welcome back to the show tonight Andre Dawson.

Andre, good evening.

Good evening.

How are you?

Good, good.

Andre, it's glad to have you with us tonight.

Now, who were your boyhood idols growing up?

Andre?

Oh, there were a few.

Well, I will Say this outside.

My uncles who were father figures, they were the ones that really introduced me to the game of baseball.

Their mother was my chief mentor.

But in learning the game itself through my uncles, there was a lot of talk around the household.

The names that usually came to the forefront were the Mickey Mantles, the Hank Aarons, the William A's.

And those were the individuals that were always consistently in the limelight.

And who you probably took, or I should say, who I probably took a special liking towards.

Now, those are great names you mentioned, Andre.

What an era of baseball that was in the late 50s, the 60s.

Just tremendous.

That's when I grew up too.

And I remember those guys on the game of the week.

And just tremendous names that you mentioned there.

Now, how did you get the nickname the Hawk?

That was given to me by an uncle.

I was a young kid watching the men's adult team practice.

And after practice, one of my uncles, Matthew Napier, would summon me to hit me ground balls, hit me fungoes and throw me some bat practice.

And if the ball took a bad hop, I was always on third base and shortstop.

If it took a bad hop and sort of ricocheted off my body.

He said he really was surprised at the way I would pounce on the ball.

He said usually the kid would be a kid would be fearful if the ball hit them.

And he said I didn't really show that.

And he just started calling me Hulk for whatever reason that it stuck all those years.

For me, it was my form of concentration.

A lot of people thought that that intense scowl that I had, they said I had anyway, was the reasoning behind it.

But no, it was just my idea of focus and concentration.

My family nickname was Pudgy.

I really don't know why.

I was never really a fat kid.

But, you know, the Hawks just seemed to stick all those years and even till today.

Yes, it does.

That's for sure.

And Andre, now, saw you the other night at the Friendly Confines.

You sit in the crowd with the folks.

I thought that was great.

And nice throwback hat and jacket, Andre.

Cool.

Yeah.

Well, what happened was all of the boxes were, I guess, sold, right?

And there were tickets available.

And normally I don't sit out because for one, the seats are too tight.

I've had three different knee replacement procedures, a hip replacement and the up and down is something that, you know, I really don't take a special liking towards.

But it was fun.

It was exciting.

You know, there was 40 plus thousand people out there, and for me it was just.

It was just exciting.

To be a part of the fun, the jubilation, the excitement.

And like I say, normally I don't really sit out there a great deal, but I really enjoyed that.

Yeah, you looked great in the crowd, Andre.

Really tremendous.

And a tremendous night for the Cubbies.

Now, your hall of Fame plaque, you have an Expos cap on it.

We know that was chosen by the hall of Fame, and we know that you tried to get it switched to the Cubs, which is who you would have chosen to go into the hall of Fame as.

Now, what's happened with that?

Did they ever give you an answer on that?

Well, their answer was it's never been done and they don't want to disrupt, let's say, the Montreal fan base.

And I pretty much, you know, beg to differ.

I think the protocol has really changed in a sense.

My initial preference was to go in as a Cub because of a lot of things that transpired off the field as an Expo.

And by the time my plan days were over with the Expos, I had moved on from the organization and, you know, felt that, okay, the second half of my career is non related to the Expos.

And I just felt I had really a rejuvenation in Chicago playing on the natural playing surface.

I won an MVP award for the first time.

I really didn't think I would win it.

Playing across the board, you really don't get the exposure.

But I just, I just felt that I had moved on.

I had moved on from the organization, from the fan base, and I felt that I should have a say so in it.

It was no.

So you're talking about my career.

Right.

I feel that I could have some sort of say so on how I wanted to be represented.

Right.

And you know, I, I look back at what they say the protocol is with the committee making the selection and I, I had some reservations because they started admitting players, managers tell them that they're not going to wear an emblem.

And I was told that, well, the committee was going to be the one that makes the final decision.

Well, have five individuals that went in after I did and they didn't have an emblem.

And I said very early on, you know, either give me spee or, you know, a blank contract.

And they just said, well, there's nothing that can be done about it.

And what I was led to understand, the board, the committee did a redetermination and decided that unanimously they weren't going to do anything.

So that's pretty much where it is at this particular point in time.

Yeah, that I don't Agree with that, Andre.

That's terrible.

I'm not satisfied with that answer.

For folks that may not be familiar, Andre was colluded against by the Montreal Expos during that whole era of owner collusion against free agent ball players.

And to give you that answer, like you said, there have been several guys who went in with no emblem on their cap and that should at least been afforded.

I mean, if it's a cost of the plaque, I think Jane's got enough money to pay for that.

Also, Tony Larousse is going to have to get a new plaque done because everything on his is obsolete since he came back to manage the White Sox.

So that's not a satisfactory answer in my book.

But that's a story for another day.

Now, in his induction speech, the great Ryne Sandberg really pleaded your case to, to the people, to the hall of Famers, and to the powers that be in Cooperstown.

Talk a little bit about Ryan Sandberg and how missed he is in Chicago.

Yeah, one of my all time favorite teammates.

And as you mentioned, he did vouch for me during his hall of Fame induction speech, and I felt very honored and thrilled.

I walked right next to him and one of the quietest individuals that I had ever been around, but maybe a little sneaky, Frankie, but in a sense, just a no nonsense guy, terrific work ethic, and gave it his all each and every time he was out there on the playing field.

And so sad when we lost him a few months ago.

I will, you know, again say he was one of my all time favorites and his work ethic was impeccable.

And he's one of those individuals that you marvel at his game from a distance if you're the opposition and when you're his teammate was.

That was, you know, for me, I really enjoyed the opportunity those six years that I was able to be in the same lineup with him and go out there and play the game with him.

The great Ryan Sandberg, ladies and gentlemen, this year's postseason.

Andre, we're in the middle of it now.

It's brought up the topic of sportsmanship, brought that to the forefront.

I mean, you had the Toronto Blue Jays singing New York, New York, Vladdy Guerrero imitating John Sterling with the Yankees lose.

The Yankees lose.

The brewers the other night flew the L flag.

A little, a little knock there against the Cubbies.

It's not what it used to be.

These guys make all kinds of motions when they get to first base.

I remember Mickey Mantle once said he ran the bases with his head down after a Home run because he said the pitcher probably felt bad enough.

I mean, what is next out there?

They're going to be taunting each other on the field.

How do you feel about this topic of sportsmanship, Andre?

Well, I definitely agree that, you know, it's gotten a little bit out of hand, you know, the game change and these individuals make so much money today, they're allowed to do whatever it is they feel like doing, which they feel is necessary.

And there's a lot of taunting, a lot of animation in the game itself, a lot of hot dogging, which really wasn't quite the norm back during my era.

But I look at it, I look at it in a sense and you know, it's the tri.

It's distracting, but, you know, what are you going to do?

It's just where the game is today.

There's a lot of it that, that a lot of it that is going on and I just think that, you know, it's a bad sign that's sent to the kids, you know, because they pick up on this and they do it and you know, they find themselves in trouble in their leagues.

So I laugh at it in a sense, you know, because like I said, it's just where the game yesterday and you know, if you did it and you had some of the likes of the NOLAN Ryans, the J.R. richards, you had those guys on the mound, I tell you what, you'd be on your back a lot.

That's right.

But you know, as I mentioned, it's just, you know, where the game is today.

Right.

I guess we have to roll with the changes, Andre, as they say.

Now we're speaking with the Hawk tonight, the great Andre Dawson.

A lot of questioning of umpires being done these days too, Andre.

With, with the strike zone.

We have the replay now on the calls on the base paths, we see that being used now, the balls and strikes, we don't have that.

How do you feel about that being implemented into the game?

Well, you're going to have those that are going to, they're going to have their reservations and arguments with the automated system itself because they're going to think pictures above and it's going to be called a strike and vice versa.

So I like the human element.

That's why I say it's a tough game to watch today because of all of the changes that have gone on instant replay, training challenges, so be it.

Okay, I can understand that.

Because you want to make sure you get the right call on the base project and be determining factor in a game.

But umpires, you know, they're human and they're going to make mistakes, but the human element when it comes behind the plate, I'd rather not tamper with that because, you know, it's not that big of a difference when it comes to balls and strikes.

I just to make you more aware of knowing the plate, knowing the strike zone, and just swinging anything close, right?

And speaking of umpires, Andre, I had read, now I want you to confirm this for me if you can.

You were called out on a call, third strike, by Joe west, famous Joe west, and he ejected you for arguing that call.

Now, you were fined $500, a lot of money back then by the National League.

Now what they say is you paid by check and you wrote donation for the blind in the memo.

Is that true?

Yeah, that was just a list like that Joe, Country Joe, because, you know, Joe was Joe a little different.

You know, he kind of had you on a little bit.

And even when you know you're not in a batter's box, if you get jammed on a, on a, on a pitch, you get a base hit here, that would be a comment made when you're going out to your position.

But yeah, I did make the check made out donation for the blind.

And I just, you know, when I thought about that, I said, do I really want to do this?

And I said, you know, you know, why not?

I'll just have a little fun with it.

Yeah, it just something that filled out, put a stamp on the envelope and mailed it to Major League Baseball officers.

There you go.

So that is a true story, a great story from Andre Dawson.

Now, we talked a little bit earlier, Andre, about the collusion situation, Major League Baseball.

Now, Marvin Miller said that it was an agreement not to improve your team.

That's the way Marvin Miller put it.

Now, they wouldn't improve their offer.

And I speak of the Montreal Expos there, and no other team was making offers to you because the owners were in cahoots and they were colluding against free agent ballplayers.

You wanted to go where there was natural grass.

Of course, Montreal did wrong by you.

So you visited the Cubs in spring training and, and tell us what happened.

Well, my agent, the late Dick Moss, and I sat down and we decided, you know, no one's going to make us an offer.

And the best way for me to get out of Montreal, off the Asper turf, they were offering me an extension as a free agent.

But for $200,000 couldn't pay.

And.

And I made the comment, you know, it's a slap in the face.

It's not going to happen.

The Astroturf is starting to take its toll.

And I can see the writing on the wall.

It's probably time for me to move on.

And it pretty much held their ground.

They didn't budge.

I met with the president, the late John McHale, in West Palm Beach.

He said the office still stood.

And I made a comment to him, thank you very much.

No, I haven't entertained it at all.

I understand it's probably time for me to move on.

And that meant that I didn't have a job.

And my agent and I went out to his home in California.

We tossed around a few things, and he came up with the idea that, you know, I noticed you have two teams in particular that you really would like to join forces with, that being the Cubs and the other, the Atlanta Braves because they were both still in the National League.

A natural playing surface.

Atlanta because it was closer to my home, but Chicago, because I always enjoyed daytime baseball and rigged the field and that whole fan base.

And we just came up with the idea where we can go out to spring training, which had already started in Arizona.

We could show up on announce and request a meeting with Dallas Green.

And that's kind of how it played itself out.

We were standing outside of the fences, and Summer Nova, one of the security people, and mentioned that we would like to go in and speak with Mr. Green.

And we went in.

Dallas was surprised.

He didn't know what was going on.

And I. I mentioned to him, I said, Mr. Green, I'm.

I'm here not to take up too much of your time, but have a blank contract.

I want you to look at and consider making me an offer.

I would like to be a part of the Chicago club organization.

And he really didn't know what to make of it.

He made a comment that, well, he has young individuals that you need to give a look, give an opportunity to make that ball club.

And I fully understood.

And I say, I know, but I'm going to only leave this offer on the table for 24 hours.

I'm going to West Palm Beach.

I'm going to do the same thing with the Atlanta Braves.

And at that point, I was on my way back home.

And the next day I got a call, actually, as I was about to get in my vehicle and go to West Palm Beach.

And it was.

It was Dallas Green.

And he said, the best offer that we can make you is $500,000, which was 500,000 less than what Montreal was offering.

And I said, Mr. Green, I said, thank you very much.

I'll accept the offer.

And he got quiet.

I didn't really hit anything for about 15 seconds.

And finally I said, hello.

And he said, I'm here.

And I called you back in about an hour.

I know at that point, you know, he probably had to clear it with the commissioner's office because he wasn't supposed to make me an offer.

And sure enough, he did call me back and he said, welcome aboard.

We're glad to have you.

I know you was just here to take your time and get back out, but spring training had already started, I should say, and I was on my way back out the next day.

Nice.

Yeah.

And the rest, they say, is history.

Dallas Green gave you the contract and you went on to have.

Have great, great days for the Chicago Cubs.

The fan base, as you say, really took to you.

The bleacher bums out in the outfield and great days at the Friendly Confines.

Now, you are one of only eight players, Andre, Andre Dawson with us tonight to record 300 homers, 300 stolen bases.

One of the other players to do that is Carlos Beltran.

Now, There are only five members of the 400 Homer, 300 stolen base club.

One of those is Carlos Beltran.

Now, we have an interest in him, Andre, because he played for the Mets and he probably would go into the hall if elected as a New York Met.

And I don't know how you feel about his candidacy, but I'd like to ask you about the candidacy of Pete Rose or Joe Jackson.

What do you think of their chances to get in the hall when their committee votes?

Well, Carlos Beltran, first of all, he's definitely going to get in.

And I was amazed if you Google Beltran and you look at his career numbers, I'm amazed at how close and how very similar our careers are.

I mean, numbers wise, it's like almost identical.

And then when you talk about Julius, Joe and Pete, it's going to be up to the committee, I think.

Well, I don't really.

The committee I really can't speak volumes for because, you know, they're kind of all over the place.

And I've been a part of that.

I witness it firsthand.

I was a part of Marvin Miller not getting in and then later on getting in.

So I just think that, you know, that's going to be the determinant factor, where they are when it comes to who they're going to select to be a part of that process.

But I just feel that the hall being a museum of history and artifacts, that's in general what it is.

And you know, when you talk about these individuals, they provide so much history.

They do, yeah.

And as you say, the committee will have to deal with that and give them the consideration due to them.

Now, I want to talk about something quickly, Andre.

One of the best signatures of any athlete you can get is Andre Dawson.

So I advise you guys go to a card show and get him at the hall of Fame signings up in Cooperstown.

Because you're going to get your money's worth.

You're not going to get the junk and the scribbling of the guys today who don't know how to write in script.

To what do you attribute your beautiful penmanship, Andre?

Well, my aunt was my first grade teacher and what she would do is after class she would make me stay behind and write on the chalkboard.

And I thought it was some sort of form of punishment.

All of the other kids were gone and I wanted to go home, but she kept me behind.

She made me write in both cursive and manuscript.

And, you know, I took a lot of pride in it.

I focused on it.

I tried to do the best that I could just to please her so I wouldn't have to stay and do it so much.

But I attribute that to her because I was inducted into the High School hall of Fame and we had to take a teacher.

I had to take a teacher with me and that was a no brainer.

She went in with me.

But looking back at my signature, I must say I take a lot of pride in it.

It's just, you know, it's just the flow.

It comes out pretty natural and automatic for me.

And people always and continuously tell me, you know, you have one of the best looking autographs in all the sports and do I cherish it?

Yeah.

Because I think the late Herman Kindlebrew said it best.

He said, you know, if you're going to do it, you know, do it right, make it legible so that people can understand it and they know what it is that they're reading right.

Half of these guys today, if they didn't put their number, Andre, you wouldn't know who the heck it was.

And everybody gets a good one.

With you, it's like Mickey Mantle.

I keep bringing up Mantle, but he said at one time, Andre, they're paying enough for my signature.

It doesn't cost me much to give.

Him a good one.

So that's the way the vic looked at it.

So I agree with that.

What's keeping you busy these days, Andre?

Well, I did a lot for the Cubs, I should say.

I work for the Cubs at this particular point in time and I back and forth to Chicago.

My home is in Miami, Florida.

I didn't really have to relocate and I'm a funeral home owner.

I have a business here in South Florida, so that keeps me pretty busy also.

And other than that, just, you know, trying to enjoy, I don't think they're with such a thing as the golden years, but just trying to enjoy day to day lifestyle living.

That's the way to do it.

Andre, who do you like in the playoffs?

Well, the Dodgers probably will have to be dethroned.

You know, if anybody, anybody can do it.

You know, I don't really know the teams in the American League that well, but I think Toronto wins the American League and Milwaukee is feisty.

You know, you gotta be careful with them because they don't beat themselves.

They're grinding out.

The one question I have is how are they starting pitching going to play what role a part is going to play in the series?

Because the Dodgers, they're loaded.

They can throw four different starters at you.

Everybody's healthy for the most part.

And I just feel that, you know, you get back there, you get to that point, you're the reigning world champions.

Every team got to play just about, you know, as perfect as they can if they're going to determine you.

Right.

So I'm, I'm, I'm pulling for Christian Yellick.

I had him when, you know, he was here with the, with the Florida Marlins when I was working for them.

I'm hoping that, you know, he has a good series going forward, but I think the Dodgers will be tough and it'll be tough to dethrone them.

Yeah, I agree with you, Andre.

And we'll enjoy the rest of the playoffs now.

It's been an honor and a pleasure talking with you, Andre.

I thank you for taking time out your Sunday night to spend it with us up here in New York and we wish you all the best down the road.

I appreciate it.

Thank you very much.

And it was a pleasure to be guesting with you.

That was the great Andre Dawson, ladies and gentlemen.

Up next on Sports Talk New York.

We're welcome.

Stick around, folks.

You are listening to Sports Talk New York.

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And now back to the show.

All right, we're back.

We're back with Sports Talk New York on WGB AM FM radio, live from beautiful downtown Merrick, Long Island, New York, usa.

Continent of North America, planet Earth, Milky Way galaxy.

In case you're somewhere besides this planet.

Well, I got breaking news for you, folks.

This just in.

The jets lost today.

Yes, yes.

It's hard to believe, but they played over in Tottenham Hotspur Stadium, the home of the spurs in north London.

They're now 06, and it seems to me they've played consistently well enough to lose every week.

Now, whatever you want to take that as a grain of salt, the franchise is just a disaster.

At least the Titanic had a band, right, Brian, when they went down.

So that's all I'm going to say.

We're down to the league Championship series in Major League Baseball starts tonight.

Seattle playing Toronto north of the border.

It's one nothing Seattle.

I think my wife just texted me, but I lost it.

North of the border.

Tomorrow night, the Brew Crew visits Chavez Ravine.

It's so nice now to have the teams I don't like and would not want to advance out of the postseason picture altogether.

So I can just relax and enjoy the beauty of the game here on end.

He, along with his teammates, Tim Toufle, Lenny Dykstra, Mookie Wilson, those guys provided the spark that kick started the powerful Mets lineup.

If you stay tuned, we'll let you know when and how you could meet and hang out with this legendary met.

And I'm going to welcome back to the show tonight, number six, Wally Backman.

Wally, good evening.

Hey, it's nice to be here, Bill.

Nice to have you with us, Wally.

Great as always.

Now, you have said in the past that your parents instilled in you the desire to win.

Tell us a little bit about that.

Well, I just think it was, you know, it was about communication, how you go about your business in the right way.

To be as good as you can be and be the best teammate that you can be is always important.

Chemistry is probably one of the biggest things when you add it to Talent chemistry will take you a long ways.

So players have to really get together, be involved with each other, do things together.

You can't just put a team on a field that you think on paper is the best team.

Chemistry means a lot.

It certainly does.

You're right there, Wally.

Now, are there any coaches who worked with you along the way through the minors, maybe, who really helped improve your game on the road to the bigs?

Bobby Valentine, Buddy Harrelson, Davey Johnson, Lou Pinella, Joe Torrey.

I mean, I played for some of the greatest managers in baseball, so to say that I took a piece and a part of each one of them, I listened.

And that's what players.

I don't know if they don't do that today.

I suspect that they don't do it as much as we did it.

But there's always good things that come from those guys.

They're always.

Everybody's trying to help you, so you take it with a grain of salt, and if it helps you, you use it and it makes you a better player.

And, you know, the all.

All those managers that I just met, and I don't even think I said Jim Leland.

Those guys were all winners.

Yeah.

And they knew how to win, and they knew what chemistry was all about.

And you still have to have the product that you put on a field that can win.

But the chemistry, bar none, goes farther than anybody can imagine.

Some great names you mentioned there, Wally.

One of them, of course, the late Davy Johnson, who we lost a few weeks ago.

Tremendous manager for the New York Mets.

But when he came to Tidewater, that was really a big plus for you.

Oh, Davey was huge for me.

You know, it was.

I wasn't able to go back to Florida to see him because I had a terrible kidney stone.

I was in the hospital because it was so big.

So.

But anyway, I'm fine.

But no, he was a great, great manager.

A person who knew everything about chemistry.

You know, David was one of the first guys that really used the computer.

Right.

For saber metrics.

And, you know, a lot of people said, I never.

I was totally against it.

I was totally for it.

But it's what it is today, you know?

But great manager, knew his players, knew the opponents as well as anybody, and knew how to manage to beat those opponents.

He really knew how to put people in positions to succeed and not fail.

So we all know baseball's a big failure.

You know, three for 10 is.300, and that's a great batting average today.

It's unheard of, but he knew how to put guys in a position to succeed.

Great way to put it, Wally.

Yes, that is for sure.

Great second baseman.

He helped you with your defense.

Now, I want to go divert a little bit here, Wally, and ask you about.

I just spoke to Andre Dawson about this.

The idea of sportsmanship in Major League Baseball today seems going right out the window.

I mean, you have Vladimir Guerrero saying the Yankees lose after they beat the Yankees.

The Blue Jays singing New York, New York in the clubhouse to give the Yankees a little poke in the ribs.

You had the brewers flying the L flag after beating the Cubs.

I mean, these guys get a base hit and they're acting like they just won the lottery.

They're making all kinds of motions and stuff like that.

And I think taunting guys right on the field can't be far away.

What do you think of this stuff going on, Bill?

I don't like it.

I don't like the taunting.

I like players to be players and, you know, there's always friendships.

But I've always said if I was playing against my brother in a World Series and he was playing second base, I'd try to take him out as hard as I could.

And that's just the way the game is supposed to be played.

The game has changed.

You can't, you know, there's no contact anymore, you know, with the catchers and things like that.

So.

And I understand that the money is big, and so it's important that players can stay on the field as long as they can.

But you know what?

I think that the way the game was before, I think players stayed on the field more than they do today.

Yeah, Yeah, I agree with you.

One thing that comes to mind, Wally, when you were talking about knocking your brother down, I think it was Leo Durocher who said if his mother came into third, he'd knock her down.

His own mother, he said, I'd pick her up and I'd brush her off, but, mom, don't try to score.

You know, I agree.

I agree with him.

He's absolutely 100% right.

Yeah.

And that's the way the guys play the game now.

Well, then.

Now you were paired with a guy by the name of Kelvin Chapman.

Only Die Hard Met fans will remember Kelvin.

Then they brought in Tuffle to work at second base with you.

How did that make you feel when they brought in Tim Toufle?

Well, you know, Frank Cassidy, when he did that, I didn't really like it.

But, you know, as I look over time, it was really good for the team.

It made the team Better, you know, I mean, if you look at Tufts and my numbers combined as a second baseman, we probably had 100 and some RBIs.

We had multiple extra base hits, you know, tough.

Hit more home runs than I did.

I didn't hit many, but, you know, you look at the stolen bases and you're looking at two guys that are playing not every day at the same time, but you're looking at two guys that, you know, and I don't know the numbers exactly.

We probably stole 40 bases between us.

I know I sold 32 that year when we probably hit 14 or 15 home runs and drove in close to 100.

So, you know that at that time, you know, Davey was one of the big guys that tried to platoon and get the most out of two guys in one position.

And it worked.

It definitely worked.

I don't think Tuff was happy.

I don't think I was happy.

And I know I wasn't happy.

I wanted to play every day.

I think I played every day the year before and hit.270 something, but.

Which would be good today.

But, you know, it worked.

It made us a better team.

And we bought into Davey's system about the way that we played the game.

And, you know, Davey created championships, so did Frank Cassin.

Frank Cassian brought in the right people and, you know, that's how we won a championship.

I just wish the playoffs were the same today as they were back when we played, because everybody thought we had a dynasty.

And we really did.

You know, I remember we won 90 some games, 99 games or whatever one year, or 97 or whatever it was.

And we didn't even go to the playoffs because the Cardinals beat us.

Right?

Yeah.

You know, so a lot of things can happen when you're head to head.

So I think that's what we're seeing in baseball today.

These teams that we think you're going to win.

The Mets, the Yankees, nobody talks about the Blue Jays, great team.

I mean, they're up in Canada, whatever.

Milwaukee's a really good team.

You know, Seattle's been a team that's busted every year, except for this year.

They've got back to the playoffs.

So, you know, I don't know, you just gotta.

You gotta see who gets hot and who doesn't get hot, who plays good together.

And I think chemistry is.

I'll go back to chemistry.

Chemistry is a big part of success.

Yeah.

And all those teams have talent.

So how they intervene with each other is very important, I think.

And as you say, Wally, it's Who gets hot that'll take you to the playoffs.

We know that.

One of my favorite games, Wally, was the one against the Cincinnati Reds in Riverfront Stadium.

I remember that Eric Davis slides in hard on rain night at third base.

Now, Ray was a boxer.

He didn't back down.

Eric pushes Ray, so Ray holds off for the right cross, right to his face, and the bench is empty.

Where did you end up in that one, Wally?

I ended up in the middle somewhere.

You know, I didn't throw no punches or anything like that.

But you're absolutely right.

Ray was a boxer.

And, you know, we had.

Everybody had each other's back, so there was no worries whatsoever.

And I think when Ray hit Eric, he basically knocked him out on his feet.

He stayed on his feet, but it was.

It was.

You know, I look at that stuff and it brings back great memories just because I know that the togetherness that we had as a team, right?

And that was the game I tell people, where Davey alternated left and right hand pitchers, putting Roger McDowell and Jesse Orozco between right field and the pitcher's mound.

He had an answer for every batter the Reds put up.

Well, they were, you know what between Jesse and Roger.

They were both very good athletes.

So putting those guys in the outfield like he did and bringing them back and forth was not something that, as a player that we would think, well, this is crazy.

But we knew that they were both good athletes.

These guys shagged in the outfield.

They did everything every day.

They worked their butts off every day, and we knew that they could do it.

But for somebody to actually do it, which Davey did, was pretty amazing, actually.

Yeah, and it worked like hell, that's for sure.

That was the game, Wally.

I think the great hall of Famer, Dave Parker.

Fly ball to Dave and he just dropped it.

I mean, you didn't see that very often, right?

No.

You know, he used to always try to snatch that shit.

Yeah, great player.

And he tried to snatch it and threw it right out of his glove and cost him the game.

But, you know, it happens.

That's it.

You're exactly right.

Now, tremendous season, folks.

Like I said, the kids can look it up.

1986, like one of the guys in Twisted Sister says in the great let's Go Mets video, even if they lose a few games, they're so far ahead, it doesn't matter.

Well, it only matters in the end, you know, when it matters.

It's when you put that ring on your finger.

Yeah, that's when it matters.

And it worked.

It worked for you guys.

Now, social media, Wally, can you imagine that team with social media around?

Oh, my God, absolutely not.

It would have been crazy.

You know, all the things that we did, we did as a team.

And I believe that when social media came along and got bigger, that I think all the other teams were doing kind of the same stuff.

It was just so much bigger in New York, which is obviously the greatest city to ever play in, but I think the other cities did the same thing.

We were just more magnified, I think, in New York.

Yeah, that's for sure, Wally.

Yeah.

Now, I was thinking, how about Mike Scott with all that media around, right?

Hey, Mike Scott and I were roommates when he was with the Mets.

I didn't know that in the structural league.

And Scotty was a.

He was a good pitcher, but he was a.500 pitcher.

And when everything started to happen, we all thought, what is he doing?

You know?

But too many guys let it get to their head.

And you still got to play the game.

You got to still play the game.

And he's still got to make his pitches, which he did.

And nobody wanted to really face this guy in Game 7 against Houston.

And thank God we didn't have to.

Well, I'm always reminded, I think it was Jeffrey Leonard who said about Doc, he ain't God, man.

It's like Mike Scott, he can still be beat.

So I think you guys would have done well against, but it would have been a rough go.

Oh, no, for sure.

I mean, I know that.

I remember that one year Doc had a great year.

I think it was the year he won.

Might have been his rookie year, when he won 24 games or whatever it was.

And we went to St. Louis and he was getting roughed up and he came out.

I think Mel Sottlebutter came out to talk to Doc and.

And Doc says, I just want one more hitter.

And it happened to be.

What was the kid's name?

I can't think of his name, but Doc says, I'm gonna hit him in the head.

And everybody.

Keith's over there and we're saying, no, you can't hit this guy in the head.

He says, watch this, I'll break his leg.

And he did.

And it was a rookie.

Ford was his last name.

Oh, all right.

And he hit him in the leg and.

And broke his leg.

It was like, oh, my God, nobody can be that good.

But Doc was that Good.

Yup, he was.

That's a story for another day, Wally.

That's definitely now the two game sixes.

I remember the Houston game.

We heard the Mets were down.

I was working at Merrill lynch at the time.

We went to McCann's, which there were like 50 McCanns in Manhattan at the time.

So we figured, let's go down the bar, we'll watch the end of the game and the season will be over.

We were there all night.

Yeah, no, I know.

That's the game.

What were your memories looking back at that game against Houston?

Well, the memories were, you know, Lenny got the big hit.

You know, we scored those runs and we didn't.

The biggest memory, I think is for most of the players is we didn't want to go to Game 7 because we didn't want to have to face Mike Scott.

We knew how good he was.

Right.

And I can't remember who was supposed to pitch game seven, but I don't think it was.

I don't think it was Doc.

I don't think it was a good matchup with Mike Scott, but the way that he had pitched that year.

Because I believe Scott won the cyan that year.

I believe.

Didn't he?

I think so, yeah.

Why not?

Yeah.

So it was, you know, nobody wanted to have to play that Game seven.

And so we just kind of turned it around and we played our game.

I mean, it was the most stressful games that we played the whole season.

I know when we played Boston in the World Series, the last first few games, it was like we were in a daze because it was a sigh of relief that we beat Houston in that series.

So we woke up.

We woke up and finished the deal.

So.

It was a great year, a great time.

I couldn't tell you that I ever played with that great of players.

Now looking at the next Game 6 against the Red Sox.

Wally Backman with us tonight on Sports Talk New York.

So much controversy.

You had the Dave Stapleton coming in for Billy Buck.

You had Roger Clemens, whether he wanted to come out or not.

You guys knew Schiraldi, though.

Giraldi was the net.

We knew that.

And I'll say it to the late Bob McNamara, that he brought Dave Stapleton in, who I played against in a minor leagues.

He brought him in almost every game for defense because Buck had the bad Achilles tendons.

Right.

And I could see as a manager why he didn't bring Stapleton in.

But I can also see as a manager why you should have brought him.

In.

For defense because that was.

I Mean, we've all seen it a million times.

That was the most routine play that there was, and Billy just couldn't bend over.

And I think McRamil wanted him in there because he was a veteran and wanted him to be on the field when they won the World Series.

And you know what?

Sometimes I won a championship before that.

My number one starter, and this was in the minor leagues, my number one starter was.

He got crushed by a team, and so I wouldn't start him in the final game in the championship.

And I pitched the bullpen and we won and we were ahead, and I let him come in for the last three outs and get the save, and he hated me for the whole game until the end.

Yeah.

So you just.

You do what it takes to win.

And it takes 25 guys to win.

You can't win with one or two guys.

I don't care how much you pay somebody or whatever.

Two guys don't want a championship for you.

No, we saw that with the Mets this year, Wally.

We know that now.

They wanted to give Greg Jeffries a shot at second base.

So they send you to Minnesota.

Thoughts about leaving the Mets?

I hated it.

I thought I went back to the minor leagues.

Oh, boy.

You know, and partly my fault.

Joe McIlvaine was the assistant GM, and he called me into the.

Into his suite in Houston and.

Told.

Me what they were going to do.

And I told Joe I would rather move on because I wasn't going to play behind this guy.

And they accommodated me.

But it's the biggest mistake that I made.

I wish I would have stayed in New York and.

And just thought through it, and I would have got my job back.

I wasn't worried about that.

But it was, you know, it was a different time, you know, that they were doing different things, and it just didn't sit well with me.

And I don't think it's that well with a lot of players, but, you know, that's.

It's part of baseball that stuff happens.

Right.

It's time to say goodbye.

Sometimes, unfortunately, that happens.

I mean, the guy could hit, but there.

There wasn't really any position for him.

Well, defensively he stuck.

Right.

You know, but.

But he could hit.

There's no doubt he could hit.

His offense was probably almost second to.

Nobody's on the team at that time, but he had no position to play.

Now, if it was in today's world and there was a dh, he would have been a huge asset.

Yeah, but there wasn't that Austin back then, so.

Not in The National League?

No.

So, you know, Jeffries is a good guy.

He didn't mean any harm.

He did some different things throughout the course of the season.

You know, everybody put their bats in it in a bag and they rev up against each other, whatever.

And he wouldn't put his bats in the same bag.

He had his own bag.

So I mean, there was some different things that happened back then, but maybe that was the point of the turning for the different stuff.

I don't know.

Yeah, yeah.

Whatever happened, happened then.

That's that.

Now, the great Sandy Alderson.

Wally, you had differences with him, to say the least.

Have you mended any fences with Sandy Alderson?

Absolutely not.

Gotcha.

Okay.

Bad person.

Yeah, bad person.

Yeah.

I remember I wanted to get you on the show when you were managing the 51s and they wouldn't let me have you because they were afraid of what you'd say.

I remember that that was the reason.

Well, you know what, I retired for a couple years.

I think I'm coming back this year.

But bad person.

I would tell him straight to his face he's a bad person.

I'm telling you, he was a military man I wouldn't get in a foxhole with.

Yeah, okay, enough said on that one, Wally.

Now, as we were talking before texting each other, you're coming out back to Long island this weekend.

I am coming back.

I'm going to go to shoot.

I'm trying to remember.

I think it's Aiders.

It's the tavern in Union beach in Jersey.

I had the Long island location up here, but I lost it on Facebook.

No, that's from like 12 to 2 on Saturday.

Then I go to the Radisson Hotel, which is all the players stayed at on Long Island.

Yeah, and it's a, you know, it's like pictures, photos.

We got pre orders.

They can get it on Eventbrite or they can go to wallybackman.com and the one thing I wanted to let you know, bill, is over 80% of the money that I don't do many of these and over 80% of the money goes to tunnel to towers into St. Jude.

So it's not something I'm trying to make money at.

Trust me, if I was trying to make money, I wouldn't be donating this money to them.

But that's what I do.

I mean, it's few and far between.

If the radisson on the 18th is that Saturday evening, it starts at 5 o' clock and they can watch the game.

There's free orders and, you know, they can take pictures with me, whatever.

I can sign autographs for them.

I don't know what they're charged.

I think they're charged like 50 bucks a person.

But they can get it all on Wallybacklin.com or they can.

They could also send it to Tyler Onslaught on social media om that they could send it to him.

And he's the one that tried to set this up.

But it's not a money maker.

It's more a fundraiser for those two people.

And it's just something we all know how the world is.

So it's all something about giving back.

And you do that.

Wally well, it's been a pleasure.

Thanks for taking time out of your Sunday night to spend it with us back here at Sports Talk New York.

Wally, we thank you and we hope to see you this weekend.

Sounds good.

I'll be there.

That's Wally Backman, ladies and gentlemen.

That will do it for me tonight on Sports Talk New York.

I'd like to thank my guests Andre Dawson and Wally Backman, my engineer, Brian Graves, and, of course, you for joining us.

See you Next on Sunday, October 26, for more sports Talk New York.

Till then, be safe, be well.

Bill Donahue, wishing you a good evening, folks.

The views expressed in the previous program.

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Staff, management or owners of wgbb.