In this episode of Supply Chain Now, hosts Scott W. Luton and Jake Barr are joined by two of Manhattan’s best - Kristin Kay, Senior Design Lead, and Laura Beth Andres, Solutions Consulting Advisor. Together, they discuss the importance of transportation planning in enhancing supply chain efficiency and performance.

The conversation explores the best practices in inbound and outbound logistics, offering insights into optimizing shipment consolidation, resource allocation, and carrier selection. Kristin and Laura Beth share insights on how real-time data and cloud-native solutions are reshaping the transportation landscape, enabling businesses to meet evolving customer demands and manage disruptions more effectively.

Tune in to hear how Manhattan's innovative solutions are helping supply chain leaders streamline logistics, boost resilience, and drive ROI in today’s dynamic global market.

Jump into the conversation:

(00:00) Intro

(03:12) Exploring key challenges in transportation planning

(07:45) Addressing inbound and outbound logistics complexities

(11:28) The role of technology in driving supply chain efficiency

(14:50) Optimizing shipment consolidation for cost savings

(17:35) Balancing resource allocation in logistics

(20:41) Effective carrier selection strategies for better outcomes

(24:05) The impact of data on improving transportation decisions

(27:14) Managing dynamic carrier relationships

(30:19) Strategies for sustainable transportation in supply chain

(33:43) Integrating transportation and warehouse management

(35:25) Modeling tools for better decision-making

(36:56) Using predictive analytics to anticipate disruptions

(39:15) Importance of continuous improvement in logistics

(41:20) Building a resilient and efficient supply chain

Additional Links & Resources:

• Making the Case for TMS: Driving Supply Chain ROI- https://bit.ly/4f2Ykjt
• Connect with Kristin Kay: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristin-kay/
• Connect with Laura Andres: https://www.linkedin.com/in/laura-beth-andres-b224b0b/
• Learn more about Manhattan: http://www.manh.com/
• Connect with Jake: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jake-barr-3883501/
• Connect with Scott: https://www.linkedin.com/in/scottwindonluton/
• Learn more about Supply Chain Now: https://supplychainnow.com
• Watch and listen to more Supply Chain Now episodes here: https://supplychainnow.com/program/supply-chain-now
• Subscribe to Supply Chain Now on your favorite platform: https://supplychainnow.com/join
• Work with us! Download Supply Chain Now’s NEW Media Kit: https://bit.ly/3XH6OVk
• WEBINAR- Unlocking the Power of Digital Transformation: Building AstraZeneca's Resilient, Decision-Centric Supply Chain: https://bit.ly/4fHYooJ
• WEBINAR- The Cold Chain Dilemma: Why Visibility Falls Short and What Really Works: https://bit.ly/4hpu8k9
• WEBINAR- 2025 Supply Chain Outlook: Preparing for Economic and Commercial Shifts: https://bit.ly/4fKWvYx
• WEBINAR- Introduction to Microsoft Supply Chain: Enabling Scale and Complexity: https://bit.ly/40K1rsz
• WEBINAR- How Ferguson's Metrics-Driven Strategy Drove an 18% Improvement in Operational Efficiency: https://bit.ly/3YBbsFz
• WEBINAR- E2E Demand Planning – Tactics for Driving Value at Scale: https://bit.ly/4g5VdaD

This episode was hosted by Scott Luton and Jake Barr. For additional information, please visit our dedicated show page at: https://supplychainnow.com/optimizing-inbound-outbound-logistics-supply-chain-efficiency-1360

Welcome to Supply Chain Now, the voice of global supply chain. Supply Chain Now focuses on the best in the business for our worldwide audience, the people, the technologies, the best practices, and today's critical issues, the challenges, and opportunities. Stay tuned to hear from those making global business happen right here on Supply Chain Now.

Hey hey, good morning, good afternoon, good evening wherever you may be. Scott Luton and Jake Barr with you here on Supply Chain Now. Hey Jake, AKA the John Wayne of global supply chain. How you doing today?

I'm too wonderfully. Halloween is upon us so nothing scarier or worse to talk about about than transportation today. I mean come on.

That's right. We were talking a little about Halloween and the pre show including the massive amounts of candy inventory that the bar household gives away. We'll have to touch on that in a later show maybe, but wonderful show here today. Great show here today. Very timely and relevant. We dialed in on taking your inbound and outbound logistics to the next level. We're going to be discussing how critical transportation planning is to overall supply chain performance, offering practitioner driven insights on topics such as the current challenges out in the transportation market in a greater supply chain world, how to optimize shipment consolidation and resource allocation, carrier selection which gets forgotten about quite often these days and the need and how to create a balanced, successful approach to inbound and outbound transportation. All that and much, much more to welcome in a few business leaders to share their expertise.

Jake, I tell you, give it all. Given our panel's incredible expertise and your immense background supply chain leadership, making it happen should be a good show, huh?

Big great show. You know, the amount of chaos that we go through anymore on an average day and week to manage it, just even a basic supply chain operation, being able to have the right kind of solution sets to help mitigate some of those chaotic disruptions is critical.

That's right. Well said. Looking forward to diving in. But folks, got two reminders before we get started. Let us know what you think. And secondly, if you enjoy today's show, be sure to share it with a friend or your network. They'll be glad you did. Okay folks.

Jake, I am going to welcome in our esteemed panel here today. Looking forward to learning from Kristin Kayay, Senior Dsign Lead with Manhattan Associates and her colleague, Laura Beth Andres, Solutions Consulting Advisor with Manhattan. Hey. Hey Kristin, how you doing today?

I'm having a great day.

You are. And you've got a big end of the week coming. We may touch on that later. And Laura Beth, how are you doing today?

Great.

Can't complain.

Can't complain. That's right. We get a break from summer weather here in metro Atlanta and it's a beautiful, beautiful day. All right. Jake's important that we don't leave anybody behind here. And everybody knows we love nicknames around here, right? But it just so happens that Kristin and Laura Beth come with nicknames here today. So, folks, when we say KK, of course we're talking referring to Kristin Kay. And we say LB, we'll be referring to Laura Beth Andres.

I don't want to lose anybody here today. But secondly, Jake, now that we've level set there, we've got an interesting fun warmup question, really for all three of y'all. And I'm going to start KK with you. Tell us one thing that a lot of folks don't know about Laura Beth.

I would say one thing people might not know about Laura Beth is she is an amazing mom of two of the coolest kids that I've ever met. They are so cool. But she has a great surprise plan for them. She got them a Disney Cruise for Christmas. But the thing you might not know is the real reason she picked a Disney Cruise is because she heard how amazing the kids club is. She gets to drop them off all day and go to those adults only zones where a drink in her hand.

I highly recommend it, LB, because truthfully, I've done it with my grandchildren. It works wonders.

Oh, man, I am jealous. So LB, that's down. Do your kids get the cool factor from you or your significant other?

I think my significant other.

Okay, that's the. Fair enough, fair enough. So tell us, LB, if you would, one thing that most folks don't know about Kristin.

Well, KK has a bit of a celebrity factor in her family. She just went to the premiere of a PBS documentary all about her grandfather called Grace Ball because he played for the Yankees in his earlier years. And the whole family is obviously watching the World Series. They're a little bit thumped, but they're true fans and they'll absolutely turn in tonight. Tune in tonight.

KK congratulations. Scott is a wannabe. He's a Braves fan.

That's true. That's true. It's not our. But as we learn in the pre show. Thank you for sharing, LB. Bobby Richardson, KK I think is your grandfather's name. Is that right?

That's right.

Played second base for the Yankees and I can't wait to check out the documentary. So that is awesome. Okay, before we move on, Jake, there's one thing I learned in the green room. I did not know about you. Please do share one element of your global travels with everybody here.

Oh I've been to all the seven wonder what had been titled the seven Wonders of the World right now.

What so that's remarkable. I'm not sure if I've met anyone in my all of my journey that's made that accomplishment. What was your favorite one of the seven?

They're all unique in their own right but I as you know Scott, I am a massive history buff and so Machu Picchu highly recommend the experience of walking on the Great Wall of China. I highly welcome recommend you could say something positive about all of them but it grounds you in the humanity of the world and more importantly the fact that we are here but for a brief period.

Well said Jake. Well said. So that that with that we got to get to work. Maybe, who knows, maybe we'll take a Disney Cruise and do this next time Disney Cruise watching documentary heading to Maku Miku next time. How about that? We'll see. We'll see if we can make that happen. So this is what we want to do. LB and KK.

Let's make sure context is so important right in this ever fast moving world we're in. I want to start with providing our global audience some valuable context. So Kristin, if you would tell us briefly about your background and what Manhattan does in a nutshell.

Absolutely. So I started about 14 years ago at Manhattan Associates and implementation. I've been implementing TMS for about 14 years and moved into the design role that solution architect coming in and deciding how is this going to work with your requirements and your network and also integrating with your secondary tertiary systems to make sure we can support you all the way through Go live. And as a part of that I've been involved with a lot of the sales cycles, project estimations, implementation all around and keeping our product management aligned with what customers are asking for. So that's been my background implementing the tms. And then in terms of Manhattan Associates, if you haven't heard of us, we're a software company based here in Atlanta, but really with a global presence, offices all around the world and we specialize in supply chain and omnichannel commerce solutions. So we provide software for managing and optimizing warehouse operations, transportation, inventory and order management. And we focus on unifying what previously have been very siloed solutions to open new opportunities for efficiency and collaboration inside of these supply chains that we're challenged with.

Oh, supply chain unity is a wonderful, wonderful thing Kristin and man, what an incredible 14 plus years that your career has already been. You were sharing about some of the big things you did right out of the gate in the grocery industry. So welcome, welcome, welcome. LB on a similar, on a similar angle, would love to learn a little bit more about your background if you'd share more.

Yeah.

So my first job out of college was actually in operations with Coca Cola. So I was a route planner there making sure that all everyone had their Coca Cola when they needed it. And then I moved into Manhattan Associates also in the implementation side. So I was in implementation for about six, six and a half years designing, implementing solutions. And then I moved into our sales team to support our account managers, account executives, when we're going in with opportunities and prospects to really be the transportation expert, making sure that our solution can actually fill the holes and make sure that we can provide the ROI that our customers are looking for.

So Jake, I'll tell you between KK and LB's experience and of course also what you've done in global supply chain, I think we've got an outstanding conversation teed up here today.

High powered talent and I can't carry on her soul because she's a Clemson grad and she was also a math geek. So few she and I both were doing homework for other people in college apparently.

Okay, fair enough, fair enough. And yes, a fellow Clemson Tiger, but her proper as that's where she graduated from. So it's great to have both of y'all here. So much to get into. And let's do this, let's set the tail a little bit more. You know, y'all work, both of you individually and of course by extension your team work with a wide variety of industry leaders across the globe. You know what challenges I'm poses to you, KK first, what challenges do you regularly see out in the marketplace, especially when it comes to our topic here today, which is inbound and outbound transportation planning? Your thoughts, KK.

So one of the major issues that I find recurring when it comes to combining the concepts of inbound and outbound transportation and optimization is the risk that you'll spend time and effort making a plan that has to be majorly undone and redone by someone else that has more or better information down the line in the process. So a lot of people are hesitant to make a plan that has to be caused a lot of manual work to get more involved. So what we want to inspect is what information is available. A lot of it comes down to your driver availability, what hours of service do you know? A lot of our larger Dedicated customers can't assume things that you can with a private fleet about full hours of service or location or what they did earlier in the week. So those are a lot of the. The constraints that challenge the ability to include inbound and outbound in the same plan.

Yeah, that's good stuff there. And Jake, really quick, before I go to LB, that risk of having to rework the plan over and over again and all the resources that it brings and the friction it can create, the burnout it can create, that is a big risk that might go under reported in many circles, huh?

It's a huge operational factor. I mean, when you think about the amount of transportation flow you've got going out of any even moderately scaled sized facility, right. You're talking a couple hundred trucks or more or double that exponentially in big scale facilities. And when you're talking the inbound flow and the outbound flow, just the sheer coordination of knowing it's not just the box, but knowing all of the data around those boxes in the conditions of. Well, I can use this one, but I. Okay, if you use that one, and here's why. Right. You can't keep up with that from a human factor.

Excellent point there. And LB, what other challenges come to your mind that you're seeing time and time again as you work with companies to do other things, but include optimizing inbound and outbound transportation?

I think it again goes back to the timing. So if we think about on the inbound side, a lot of times you're using your common carrier base to move that inbound freight. And if you hold some of that inbound freight, thinking that you might be able to get it covered with your dedicated, or you might be able to get it with your private fleet for doing that round trip, back, haul return, reverse logistics move, then a lot of times you're going to get into a capacity crunch if you actually can't align that inbound and outbound. So really just making sure that you're committed to the timing and all the partners that play into getting that timing correct, I think is what I see as the biggest challenge.

Yep, good stuff there. LB and Jake, what I heard there, you may have heard something different, but there's a tremendous opportunity to make it all more holistic. Right. And we got to lean into the opportunities, especially as technology poses so many new levers to pull and optimize. Jake, your thoughts?

Yeah, Scott, you have to remember that in a operation fundamental, whether it's a dc, a plant, whatever, it's a living, breathing organism Right. And unfortunately, you've got a plan, but the plan is constantly being changed or up updated. And so fundamentally, when you're thinking about how do I know whether I'm going to be able to use a round trip situation or how do I even factor in what the capacity is, inbound flow, and if I'm using someone that may be, for example, a private fleet, how am I factoring in the horizon of what my schedule looks like and how it just changed? Right. Well, in a traditional operation, someone's taking that offline and looking at it, you don't have the time to take it offline. If you're really going to squeeze the pennies and make the operation move and automate the processes, you've got to be able to view it as these are separate data sources. They have to be ingested together. And you've got to run a solver to be able to optimize that.

Outstanding. We all need more solvers in our organizations and maybe our homes and maybe.

The Berines will get one next year.

All right. All right. So hey, really quick before we move on. So now we've, we've learned a little more about KK and LB. We've added some context to some common challenges we're seeing out there as it relates to transportation. We're about to move more into the topic here today. Optimizing inbound and outbound logistics for supply chain efficiency. It's a beautiful thing.

Okay, we got our topic. We've set the table now. We're going to unpack kind of the main, the main plate here today. So I want to start, though, with a fundamental question. And I want to start with you. LB here. Would you speak to the role of transportation planning, the critical role of transportation planning when it comes to boosting overall supply chain performance?

Yeah, I think you have to kind of ask yourself, how do we measure performance? Each organization measures performance differently. And I think that's the process of really trying to understand how transportation can impact your performance. Maybe it's that you need to make sure that your customers are being served and serviced at a certain time period that your sales team has sold them on. Maybe it's two days, maybe it's three days that you have to make sure those goods are there. Or maybe it's that I have to squeeze as much money out of the transportation operating budget as possible because that was my direction from my superiors. Or maybe it's that I actually just need to make sure that I'm keeping my warehouse operating smoothly. I'm getting the right work to the floor at the right time so that I'm not only doing my planning, but I'm also impacting positively my warehouse operations. So after you figure out what that performance metric is and for your organization, then you can go into things like if I'm looking at delivering at a very small time period today, thanks Amazon.

Then you can look at maybe thinking about dynamic cross stocking network structures or maybe relay points in your network so that that freight is continuously moving right. Without the cost of those team drivers. Or maybe when you're thinking about your reducing the transportation cost overall, then you're thinking about optimization, continual optimization. Making sure that if any new orders come in, they're being placed on an existing truck before we create a new truck to go out on the road. Because every truck costs money. Or maybe looking at mode shopping, because if I am not grounded by when I have to get these goods to my customer, but based on my sales team, then maybe I could look to a little bit more of elongated mode delivery schedule, but reduce costs. Right? And then finally smoothing the operations from planning to execution. That's Manhattan Active supply chain.

If you don't know Manhattan's Active supply chain solution is Manhattan Transportation and Manhattan Warehouse Management on one single application. So in transportation planning, I can look to the warehouse, I can see what tasks are needed and I can make sure that I am fulfilling all those tasks in the warehouse with the work that I'm sending to the floor. So really being able to take away those silos and have that seamless optimization across Transportation and Warehouse Management.

Oh, we could do a whole series. I think based on that response there. There's two things, Jake. Two important things I heard of I'd love for you to weigh in on. First off, you know, how we measure what's important and how kind of everything cascades down from there is where LB started. And then kind of one of the big opportunities, advantages, whatever the right word is that she ended on, was integrating our transportation and our warehouse management from a technology standpoint. Taking out, taking the silos that can exist in so many organizations out of the equation. What'd you hear there, Jake?

Well, let's be very blunt and keep it real. She listed multiple things that I may want. Well, actually I'm in the camp and most of our clients are as well. They want all of it, right? Not just one of them. They want all of them. So it speaks to the need to actually be able to look across all these, thinking about them as outcomes and still be able to solve and optimize against the collective. Right now, the second piece is equally important. Look, the days of being able to work in a siloed architecture, my wms, completely different than my tms, which is different than my order management solution, which is different than my executional planning horizon, right? For production, et cetera, they're gone, right? The amount of change in updates that you have to do to manage not only the chaotic demand volatility, but also the marketplace realities.

I mean, last time I checked KK, LB, you know, transportation volatility has been going through the roof in terms of carrier A versus carrier B on, on time performance on their capability to deliver. Not only getting to the place where they need to pick it up, but also getting to the destination. So when you've got that amount of dynamic nature, the need to bring these together so that you can optimize the full end to end flow is critical.

Yeah, well said, well said. And I love the keep it real moments. So important we got to find more unification for sure. All right, KK, I want to ask you about when it comes to optimizing shipment consolidation so we can reduce costs and improve those delivery times that you know that new expectations continue to impact every. Every single hour, it seems. What would be some of your advice there?

I think it takes Jake and I back to our nerdy math classes. It's not hard to. If you have constraints, then model costs and minimize it. That's the easy part. The hard part we find is what are the right constraints? What are the constraints that you can control and what are the constraints that you can't control that have to be honored? What are things that you could be adjusted and made more flexible with work from IT or oper operations? And what are things that you as a company in operations cannot bend on? And we find that sometimes these things change over time. In times of plenty, maybe customer satisfaction on time delivery, delivering exactly in a certain window becomes the most important. But when times get a little tougher, economy takes a turn. We'll open those windows wide up.

As long as we can reduce trucks and reduce miles, we'll save the money and we'll be flexible at the the stores or at the vendors. So I find that what we need to do is look at what are the constraints that we're operating within. What can we move, what can we change with changes in IT and operations and what can we not move? And then within that, how are we going to model our costs? Because modeling cost comes down to one thing. If you're talking about labor in the warehouse versus the work your dispatchers are doing touching a million pieces of paper versus the amount of work done to decide am I making the right appointment time. So there's a lot of different costs and a lot of times we just focus on a freight and an accessorial charge. Right. So we need to think about all the costs that are involved to both reduce the amount of interaction that you have to have, but then also be completely aware and blunt about what constraints we can control and what can we not control.

The days of us trying to think about those constraints as being single variable that apply to all the business are gone. Right. So you've got to solve now for Wait, KK actually, this segment of the customer base I want to solve this way and this portion of the customer base from a channel perspective I want to solve differently.

Excellent point. And I love two main themes I heard there. First of all, math still wins. KK Jake and LB. Right. Math still wins and the importance of constantly challenging assumptions, how we've always done it and what those norms that has led to. And Kristin, I heard a lot of that in your response there. Let's kind of take it up a notch or two and talk about some strategies here that supply chain leaders can consider when looking to strike that important balance.

Right. When it comes to inbound and outbound transportation. So we can really maximize our ability to streamline overall logistics operations and as Jake said, those critical outcomes and the performance. LB tell us more.

Yeah, I think aligning the inbound and outbound schedules as a strategic initiative is where this all begins. So being able to look into those constraints that maybe you can discuss with your partners, internal and external leveraging a modeling tool. Again, back to the math. You have to leverage a tool that's going to be able to look at these what if scenarios, look at these policy changes, quantify those changes and then take that information to these partners, take that information to your buyers and let them know if I could just change my ordering patterns for this group of vendors and change them, maybe shift them from Monday to Tuesday because I'm already in that area, that would reduce my overall transportation costs by X amount. Being able to really quantify these decisions and give reasons of why this makes the most sense for the company as a whole, it really allows you to make some of those pivots that if you can't quantify, you're just asking kind of for favor. So being able to leverage these modeling tools, produce the math and the calculations to support what you're needing operationally, I Think is what really is driving our customers right now to be able to make these big changes.

Massive opportunities, Jake. Of course, the modeling opportunities that in scenario planning at modern day technology gives us, gosh, what we can go through in an hour versus past previous manual exercises took forever to do. Jake, what'd you hear there from LB?

I couldn't agree more, Scott. The world of scenario modeling of outcomes is absolutely critical. You have too many dimensions you're trying to play across today and unfortunately you can't solve it by yourself. So you've got to be able to look at a variety of potential options and viewpoints so that you can actually map out some alternate types of reality, how you want it to play out. If you don't do that, you're lost.

And that does not bode well for your supply chain performance, is my hunch. Is that right, Jake?

No. All right, hang the shingle. Going out of business.

All right, good stuff there, Jake. KK and LB, let's see here. Let's talk about resource allocation. Right. And KK I'll start with you. I'm gonna pose this both to you and LB share some insights on the importance of course of optimizing how we allocate resources, especially by keeping at least one, if not maybe both of our keen eyes on maximizing efficiency and minimizing waste in all of its forms. Right, in all of its forms. KK, your thoughts?

Yeah, I agree. I think anybody that comes from different industries thinks of what are resources differently. So I'm specifically talking about your transportation resources when it comes to vehicles, drivers, fuel, time, time of everybody, your drivers and your operations, and thinking about the most efficient and cost effective manner in which you can run your transportation operations. So I think that it involves a lot of data driven decisions, but also acknowledging what the constraints you're dealing with. You may have work in a shop where your unions are going to pick each day by seniority, right? There's certain things you can't work around, but I do think there are some things we can do to look at minimizing waste. One of the main things we've been talking a lot recently about is the amount of work that happens in the warehouse when you either or your shipment plan didn't fill the truck and they're having to manually scramble to fill it or you have overflows because your order management system estimated some certain number of leak volume and pallets. But in reality when it gets to the warehouse, they're going to stack it a different way. So you have work on the Shipping air, you have work on the overflows.

So one of the ways we found to kind of increase that efficiency is how can I make my transportation plan with awareness of how the warehouse is going to be palletizing. And so that's something that we're moving into. How is this going to work? How are they going to work together and seeing the benefits from that. Because I think, you know, your transportation planning operations don't change that much. You just have better order data because now it is informed by the warehouse palletization. But I think that it's going to save a lot of work on the warehousing side and. Or save a lot of shipping air.

Yeah, KK a lot of good stuff there. Before I move over to LB, Jake, comment on what we heard there from Kristin.

KK gave a great description of what I'll call the evolution of the, think about it, of the discipline. Right. So from a historical perspective, transportation was about, well, wait, I'm doing root acquisition of carriage movement support resources to actually get either materials or finished product or intermediates, et cetera, from point A to point B, right? Well, that's great, but you've got so many moving parts and variables that you have to take into account today where you really need to turn those folks into, I'll call it supply chain data scientist, data value engineers. Right? Where yes, I'm doing a acquisition of a service, but actually the only way to optimize it is to look upstream into the other support processes that are feeding into it, i.e. The distribution center, the warehouse operation. Because look, I'm going to pay for that vehicle to move. I'd much rather it be optimized before it actually leaves the dock.

Right. So I'm getting the absolute value out of it instead of after the fact, trying to reconcile and say, well, Jesus, why my cost per unit go up by 8% over this time frame? Well, duh, it's because I wasn't optimizing what I actually ended up putting into.

Yeah, yeah, we need a lot more of those supply chain data value engineers, as you put it. And I loved your evolution of the discipline, as you called it. A lot of good stuff there. LB let's go back, kind of get your thoughts on transportation resource allocation. Your advice there, LB Yeah, so I.

Think that KK and I, coming from the implementation world, can attest to the fact that once we get that project done, we will see a lot of our customers getting stuck in that go live configuration. So that's just a moment of time configuration and what you have to do is you have to buy a tool that's going to be able to grow with you, that's going to be able to continually optimize and figure out what of those areas that you're kind of suboptimal in. And then also make sure you're picking a partner that's going to be able to do that continuous improvement program visit with you, reevaluate your optimization, reevaluate the way that you're using the tool, reevaluate your network in general, making sure that you have a partner that's not just a solution, that's going to make sure you have everything you can get out of the technology package. So moving away from just, you know, what math can do for you, but making sure that you are growing your learning and you're not staying stagnant with the selections and the configuration and the tools that you're leveraging.

Oh, LB, I love that. Jake, we talk about this a lot. Choosing the right technology, the right solution that can grow with you. Because what you need, what's gotten you today, to this point today, is not what's going to get you to the same point next year. Selecting the right solution that can continually be optimized is critical. And then the other thing I heard LB kind of describe, Jake, is maybe still in a term from the healthcare industry is that critical aftercare after successful implementation.

Right.

That keeps driving value as the needs of the business and the environment continues to change and as customers continue to would do what they always do, which is demand more and more and more.

Jake, your thoughts? The old, the old world was you went out, you looked for a static solution, you were doing a math optimization problem, you were doing a point in time. I'm sorry, throw it away. We live in a, in a hectic dynamic world and the reality is you're constantly doing resets of your operation nonstop. The chaos is only increasing. So the idea that I can have a static fixed point up. No, you're going to continue to need to, I call it the self healing supply chain. Right. Fundamentally you're going to continue to need to adjust the way the unit op runs in order to get the outcomes.

And unfortunately we sell into channels where they changed their minds. Right, right. What was important to them yesterday is a little bit different today. And so I can't just have a fixed static way. I've got to be able to come in, change the parameters, change the setup and then allow it to run and optimize again.

You paint a beautiful picture there, Jake.

Certainly it's an ugly picture, it's not a beautiful picture, but it's real world. It's why we call it supply chain gainful lifetime employment. Okay.

So in my brain at least the picture was being painted is how it used to be done and what used to at least make things work. And now the massive opportunity that is, that exists to do things much different and to delight the customers as you do it and provide for that critical scalability. Right. So organizations can grow easier while they're still delighting customers. So that was a beautiful picture I had between my ears. Let's move on to carrier selection. LB Just a second ago, actually, you and Jake, I think Kristin was kind of, kind of alluding to this, you know, selecting the right partner. Well, that also is important and can be at times, from what I've seen in my experience, an afterthought when it comes to carrier selection.

So I want to ask UK first, best practices for selecting the right carriers based on cost, capacity, service levels and some of those other key factors. Your thoughts?

KK I think we've really seen the carrier selection market evolve, especially with the introduction of technologies such as Uber Freight, RXO emerge, all of these companies that are offering availability to more of a carrier base, but then also looking at, well, how do I guarantee that kind of service? So looking at your business, do you need fast access to capacity or do you need that service level? Or what do we want? Jake? Both. Right, so what we're looking at is how can we look at all of these options in one solve? How do I look at my existing contracts with my common carriers? How do I look at my dedicated and my private fleet? And how do I take into account these marketplaces at one time, not in some kind of waterfall mentality, but with everything I have, what's the right solub to use multiple options across my network? Because you don't just want to pick one thing from a risk perspective. So I see a lot of people moving towards what's the right mix for my group, but how can my TMS help me make that decision? I don't want to make it so siloed that things can't be flexible because people might call out sick or the economy might change and the, you know, marketplace gets cheaper. How do I make the right choices without a large amount of pain on the maintenance perspective of my system? So that's what we see in terms of best practices. And then the next part is this word that gets thrown around a lot. But then what does it mean in Reality for transportation, which is sustainability. Right. So first we see a lot of people just gathering the data, right? What's the data in terms of who I select and what impact it has on my sustainability data.

But then also we start to see do I want any of these factors to start to affect my selection, Do I want sustainability or on time ratio or tender reject ratio to be affecting my choices or do I just want to measure it? So finding systems that let you both collect the data but then also say, you know what, I think I'm going to start to use that information in my carrier selection to not just look at cost from a dollars perspective, but also from an impact perspective.

I love that. Jake, before we move over to get LB's expertise here, I love the opportunity that Kristin talked about in taking our gains as a transportation, as a supply chain team. And of course infusing those, it makes so much sense infusing those into how we select carriers that match what we're trying to do. Jake, what'd you hear there from KK?

I heard what I love, which is math. Okay. Fundamentally it is doing large scale problem solving. It's doing evaluation of discrete pieces of information and running it through trade off. And so it's doing optimization, it's doing analysis. You know KK, the one of the things that you actually didn't bring up was actually yeah, I know the selection is one thing, but I can actually use dynamic data about current trends of that to help me. And even when I decide Scott, to have a primary and a backup and I'm splitting the volumes between the two or multiple carriers or multiple modes of sources, I can actually use the live data to actually then overlay switching how I'm going to allocate the business out based on the performance so I don't have to wait to a static event or an evaluation time period to actually take advantage of making sure that we're still optimizing.

Excellent point, Jake. Selection is critical, but management of the carriers you select, which you're speaking to is as important. LB, we're talking carrier selection and getting both you and Kristin to weigh in on some of your expertise and advise there. What would you suggest?

Yeah, I would say, Jake, the reason that KK didn't really talk about that is because that was my part of the answer.

Oh no. But I was trying to give her street cred. Come on.

So cloud native architecture, right. That unlocks the ability to crunch this big data. You have to be able to pull in all of this real time true historical data to Be able to predictably analyze what is the best carrier for this. It's not just about, okay, your performance and your historical, but it's also predicting what the future is going to hold based on your history. And that's what this cloud native architecture allows. I'm in sales, so here I've got to do it. The only transportation leader in the magic quadrant that is on a true cloud native architecture is Manhattan Active Transportation. So we can compute that big data, we can foreign a cast, we can predictably analyze what is going to what we expect to happen based on all the data that we're collecting, caching and crunching.

All right, Jake, I bet that's music to your ears, but I want to speak for you. What'd you hear there from LB?

The same thing. I mean fundamentally it's a big data solve problem, right? And we've got to come to grips with that, guys. Transportation at its very core is at the heart of large scale data problem solving. And you got to be grounded in that at your essence if you're going to be successful in trying to make both trade offs and the correct decisions. And what LB added to it was the piece that I was trying to get out, which was the predictive nature of it. Right. I've got so much chaos going on in my operation, I actually need to be ahead of the curve, not reconciling behind me on what happened. The only way to generate those better results is to predictably be able to get out in front of the conditions and to help course correct based on what's happening.

Yeah. You know Jake, as you all three of y'all have been sharing your responses and advice here today, you're talking earlier, Jake, about how painful, right, supply chain can be. And I hadn't used this little segment in a long time. But if you remember back, I think it was Rocky II and Mr. T was Clubber Lang, right. And there was a reporter in that movie that asked Clubber Lane, what does the future hold with this big fight coming up? And he had a one word response as he kind of grimaced at the reporter and said, pain.

Pain, right.

But about three octaves lower and a lot cooler than I could do it. And so I promise is now just going somewhere. What we know, what we know as sure as the sun is rising tomorrow, is that supply chain, global supply chain, brings chaos, brings pain, brings friction, brings surprises, you name it. All the more reason, right, all the more reason to change how business is done and pull all these incredible levers that we have sitting right in front of us that will position our team to find and deliver on more success, easier for our customers, which has tremendous ripple effects. Those carriers we're talking about selecting, well, hey, they're looking for good business too, right? Doing business better, right? With our transportation planning, our transportation execution makes it more, makes us and our business more appealing for them. Team members, suppliers, the whole ecosystem. Massive opportunity here, Jake. Before I make sure folks know how to get.

We got some resources, folks from the Manhattan team. We'll share in just a second. We also make sure you know how to connect with KK and LB, who's going to be on a world tour like Taylor Swift soon with their supply chain prowess. But Jake, seriously though, all that kidding aside, the important moment that a lot of supply chain leaders are faced with here today is what we're talking about. Your thoughts?

We've talked a lot about the operational box. We also need to talk about the macroeconomic effect that plays out in this very important arena fundamentally. You know, KK and LB we didn't even have time to get into. Well, wait a minute, what's the current state of the transportation number of players and suppliers that are out there, you know, the default rates and the folks that are going belly up at the moment because they can't finance, you know, the operations based on the amount of freight that's available to move across the various modes. So when you take that into account, that just makes the need for what we discussed all the more important in mission critical. I would love to say we operate in an environment where things are simple. We don't supply chains are messy. They always have been.

The issue that we're dealing with now is we don't live in a world of single variable failures anymore. We live in a world of multiple variable failures. I got a supplier drop it out on me. I've got a transportation partner dropping out on me concurrently. They're not doing one after the other doing it at the same time. So the ripple effect of then trying to say, hey, I'm going to be Superman or Superwoman and run a pristine operation without dynamic support, your chance of success is minimal.

That's right. You got a better chance maybe of picking the right lotto numbers. KK and LB and Jake, I really wish we could bookend this with another hour, but I bet y'all have jam packed schedules. I want to make sure we've got a couple questions we're going to pass along. And again, folks, we love making connections and helping our global audience make connections with our outstanding guests. We have here at Supply Chain Now. So KK Space, make sure folks know how to track you down. But do you want to share a little good news of what the end of week poses for you and a friend?

Sure, why not? We got time. So this weekend me and my sister are going to see Taylor Swift in Indianapolis and we're thrilled. I'm so excited. But you know, it's going to come down to, I won't lie, when I'm going to be going past all of these places with this massive amount of people, I will think about a little bit the amount of product they had to get in there and how it affected transportation. But really, I'm probably just going to be singing and making bracelets.

Well, all right, so. So first off, I can't wait for.

That article to pay for the trip.

Oh, gosh, goodness gracious, yes, Taylor. Taylor Swift is beloved all the world around, I'll tell you. But I look forward to that blog article on what Taylor Swift can teach us about global supply chain. Kristin, to your point, and secondly, beyond the concert, how can folks track you down to talk, chop and talk about changing the game?

To track me down, the best way would definitely be through LinkedIn or through LB in implementation. You usually get to talk to me once you've talked to LB, so. But I'm happy to talk to anybody through LinkedIn.

Wonderful, KK. I appreciate that. All right, so LB, first off, congrats on Manhattan's success as you were touching on your earlier response. That is outstanding. I bet you love having all sorts of conversations with supply chain leaders that are looking to reach new heights of performance. So how can folks connect with you? LB.

That's right. So we're going to post a link, I'm sure so you can just request a demo directly from Manhattan and I can come and visit you all and give a demonstration of our Manhattan Active Transportation Management solution and show you the new world of cloud native architecture and how our technology can truly predict and help solve the transportation challenges that you're seeing today.

LB, I love it. Be a solver. We gotta call and connect with more solvers. Close. Not just across global supply chain, but across global business. I might would even add across global humanity, but that might be another show. All right, and folks, as LB mentioned and Jake, we're coming to you for your patented key takeaway from today's conversation. But before we do, a couple resources.

Hey, don't take our word for it from today's conversation. Book a demo as Tricia and Amanda behind the scenes help make production happen. Big thanks to you both. We got a convenient link right there. Book that demo, have that conversation, kick the tires hard, ask the tough questions. I am confident after spending an hour with KK and LB they take all the tough questions and probably give give magical responses. Is my hunch kind of like that Disney Cruise you'll be on soon?

If you had only known them decades earlier to where they could have done your math homework. That's right.

I need help man. Especially with college calculus. Oh my goodness folks, Other Resources we got one more check out. The Manhattan team brought this interesting white paper here today. Informative white paper focused on making the case for TMS driving supply chain return on investment. Now this white paper is going to help you, number one, uncover the key areas that consistently deliver savings, value and continuous improvement across your supply chain, organization and business. Maybe help you be a better, what'd Jake call it, A supply chain data value engineer. But also it's going to offer up been there, done that.

Key topics to consider when selecting the right TMS provider and we have included the link right here to download that white paper and check it out so we know how to connect with KKnLB. We've shared a couple resources Jake, before we wrap here today, I'd love to get your patented key takeaway from what I think has been a great conversation.

It has been actually. I love these types of chats because it reinforces my fundamental view of look, we live in an environment today where we simply cannot muscle our way to the right way about both operational performance or optimization. I would love to say it's about throwing bright, talented people against it. The people will always be a key role, but much rather have the folks that I have within an organizational context actually keeping me ahead of the curve, anticipating where we potentially can either take advantage of an opportunity or importantly avoid a problem. And that just simply speaks again to the dynamic nature that we live in of the business environment that makes up supply chain.

Well said. Jake Barr, the John Wayne Global Supply Chain A Supply Chain hall of Famer. Great have these conversations with you but really have enjoyed the other two future Supply Chain hall of Famers that was spent time with us here today. Kristin Kay, Senior Design Lead with Manhattan Associates. Kristin aka KK Great to have you talk with you here today.

Thank you.

Safe travels later this week and enjoy have a wonderful time. And Laura Beth Andres, aka LB, Solutions Consulting Advisor with Manhattan LB. Really enjoyed what you and KK both shared and I wish you safe travels on the well deserved vacation via the Disney Cruise coming up soon.

Thank you.

Oh, and speaking of future blog articles, Halloween Supply Chain. So LB, I'm coming to you with your observations from the week in a few days. All right, A lot of good stuff. KK, LB, Jake, Bar, appreciate y'all being here. But folks, the most important thing, KK and LB and Jake shared a ton of expertise here today. Things you can do with great technologies like Manhattan, things you can do with your team from a process standpoint and then some. Take one thing. Your homework is simple.

Take one thing you heard here today from this incredible panel. Put it into practice. Take it back to your teams. Your team members are ready to do business different. Do business easier, to take the delight of your customers to a whole new level. And I would argue that transportation at the core of Supply Chain is a really important first step. So with all that said, on behalf of the entire team here at Supply Chain Now, Scott Luton, challenge you do good, give forward, be the change that needed, hat's needed. And we'll see you next time right back here at Supply Chain Now. Thanks, everybody.

Thanks for being a part of our Supply Chain Now community. Check out all of our programming at supplychainnow.com and make sure you subscribe to Supply Chain Now anywhere you listen to podcasts and Follow us on Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter and Instagram. See you next time on Supply Chain Now.