Want help building a brand strategy that keeps clients coming back? Work with Deirdre to craft your uncopyable brand, offers, messaging, and experiences that make your growth inevitable.

—

What if you’re not lacking confidence at all... you’re just missing clarity? In this episode, Deirdre Martin and Kelly Jahner-Byrne, “the how gal,” dig into why so many brilliant founders second-guess themselves in sales, stay stuck in overthinking, and mistake uncertainty for incapability. This conversation gets to the heart of what really builds momentum in business: knowing who you help, what you sell, and what your next best step actually is. You’ll leave with a sharper lens on sales, growth, and the identity shifts that happen when you stop trying to feel ready and start getting clear.

For the full list of timestamps, key takeaways, and all resources mentioned, visit the full episode page here: https://www.deirdremartin.ie/blog/why-sales-feels-harder-than-it-should

If your revenue is looked suspiciously similar for the

last three years, if you're visible but not converting, if you've hired

marketing help or sales help, but even at that, it still feels clunky.

It's because your sales and marketing are not holding hands.

And when those two, when they break up, your revenue is being affected

possibly more than you realize.

And listen, I see this every single week with coaches, consultants,

service providers who are trying to scale to multi-six figures.

And beyond.

They're busy.

They're posting, they're out networking, they're doing all of the things.

But when the messaging is fuzzy, the sales conversations can feel forced.

And when you're not closing as many sales as you could, it's normal for your

confidence to start to wobble a bit.

And today we're fixing that.

I'm Deirdre Martin, award-winning speaker, bestselling author, and I help

entrepreneurs build brands that break through six figures without burning out.

And in this episode, I'm joined by someone who has built her entire reputation

around answering one question, how?

Kelly Jahner Byrne, also known as the How Gal is a sales strategist,

certified speaking professional, bestselling author and founder of the How

publishing company, and how conferences, which stands for helping others win.

And this conversation is fricking powerful.

We're talking why clarity beats confidence every single time.

Why most books don't sell and how to fix it, how speaking

accelerates your authority.

The difference between random networking and being in strategic rooms and

how to stop hitting revenue plateau.

By the end of this episode, you'll know exactly how to align your

messaging, your rooms, and your revenue.

So 2026 becomes your strongest year yet.

Let's dive in.

Kelly, welcome to the Master Your Business podcast.

KJB - Kelly Jahner-Byrne: Good morning and welcome.

Glad to be here.

Morning, evening.

What time of day is it?

I guess it depends on where you're at,

Exactly.

And whenever you're listening,

kelly, I'm so excited to have you on the show.

We have been talking, I wanna say, for the best part of six

months or a year at this stage.

And we've even managed to meet in person despite our different accents,

which has been so fun, and we've got something exciting that we're working

on together, which is even more fun.

But Kelly, for those people who have never met you, you are known as the how gal

KJB - Kelly Jahner-Byrne: Mm-hmm.

you help people so much with sales and networking

and publishing and so many things.

So I know that you meet founders who say, I know what to do when

it comes to sales and networking.

I'm just not doing it.

What's really going on for them?

KJB - Kelly Jahner-Byrne: Well, I think it's, two problems.

Simple ones first, it's clarity of what you know, what do you sell, who

do you sell it to, and confidence.

It's in this day and age, I believe that it is really easy

to have your confidence shaken.

It does not have any bearing if you're a CEO, a CFO, or

if you're brand new in a job.

There's a lot of uncertainty in business today, and business is

moving faster than it ever has.

And because technology the way that we sell, the manner in which people

get their information delivered.

Is changing all of the time.

I think it creates a little bit of an unnerving unsettled feeling for people.

And because of that, I think that we second guess

ourselves right out of a sale.

I think we second guess ourselves right out of growth.

And it starts with clarity.

And I think that the clarity exercise used to be, you know, we get our

marketing plan, we get our sales plan down, and it was a weekly thing or a

monthly thing, or even a quarterly thing.

Now I think it's a daily thing and it's daily practices of clarity.

And why do you think so many?

Smart, successful founders still feel that lack of confidence or you know,

why are they not getting that clarity?

What's making them resistant or avoidant when it comes to the sales process?

KJB - Kelly Jahner-Byrne: Well, I know for myself sometimes it's too many choices.

It's too many tools.

You know, all you need to do really is spend a few minutes.

On the internet or for some people doom scrolling.

You know, after the workday is done and you're looking at, five minutes to

5 million, and if you just had these three success factors, or if you had,

you know, blue hair whatever it is that they're selling, it doesn't even matter.

But so many people now are looking at all of the choices and too

many choices creates confusion in your brain and a lack of clarity.

When you confuse 'em, you lose them.

And so I think that we, as founders or as CEOs of companies,

sometimes it's a lot of noise.

And you might be the leader of a very successful company, but

you're still human, still human.

And no matter what happens the human factor is always going to need

to be factored in to your sales.

So I try to limit the choices that I present to myself for

growth and sales or marketing.

Whatever system we might be enacting for another part of our business.

And I try to boil it down to fewer choices because more choices

is not always better choices.

It's not better options.

Agreed.

Yeah.

More choice can lead to analysis, paralysis,

KJB - Kelly Jahner-Byrne: Oh, mm-hmm.

I totally hear what you're saying in terms of the connection

between confidence and clarity and how that can impact choices as well.

Which do you think comes first then in that sense?

Is it confidence or clarity

KJB - Kelly Jahner-Byrne: I think that people.

That is a question I get all the time when I'm speaking, whether I'm speaking, you

know, in the US or if I'm speaking abroad.

What, whatever, wherever I'm at.

People are people.

We all want to know what the next step is.

And I believe that it is clarity first.

You don't build yourself up with confidence, although,

yes, you need to in business.

We need to build ourselves up so that ultimately we are confident, but it

is in knowing your next best step.

That clarity comes through.

So whether I'm working with a coaching client or I'm speaking to a group, it

could be five people or 5,000 people.

When you can get people clear on what their next best step is, they're not

looking at the four flights of stairs that they've got carry something up.

It's just step by step by step.

And so we have to have a big picture mentality, but you need to

know what your next best step is because as you mentioned, people

get into analysis paralysis.

How are we getting up the whole staircase?

We are getting there and we're gonna get onto step number one first and clarity.

I believe, I used to think that it was confidence before clarity, but as time

goes on and as we help businesses become more successful, it is clarity first.

'cause clarity breeds that confidence.

You are speaking my language.

I mean, clarity is one of the first things I work on with people as well

because I think otherwise it's like, you're trying to get through that

forest but there's so many trees and you just can't see the path.

Right.

and one of the things I've noticed, and I'd love to hear your thoughts

on this, is that I often see people who are really great at selling, but

then they kind of hit a plateau where, they might hit annual sales that are

roughly the same year on year and it's like just to get to that next level.

And you mentioned the next step, but does that clarity.

Confidence, you know, when they have the clarity around what that next step

is, I guess is what I'm trying to say.

Is it then usually the strategy around that next step, or does it

come back to their personal identity?

KJB - Kelly Jahner-Byrne: Well, I believe it's a strategy because if you're just

selling totally on personal identity, you will always hit a plateau, in my opinion.

I think you'll always hit a plateau, and I think people hit a plateau

because you'll aim, you'll shoot for just about where you need to be.

I think people need to continue to set the bar higher, But a concept that I'm

working on is, do we set the bar wider?

Let's just say that you're in an industry and there's four major players, and

now you have brought all four major players on, and they're your clients.

Now what.

Now what?

You know, we have to think about wider, and that's where I believe

that the strategy comes in.

And if you are clear around what your strategy is based on what

the bottom line goal is, or your top line goal, right, it's gonna

be a lot easier for you to move.

I just know that companies oftentimes build relationships

with only the few key people, okay?

In this day and age, what happens when the key people leave your

marketing plan can leave your sales plan, can leave the some of the

corporate you know, culture can leave.

So that's where I believe that it's important from a sales aspect

and from a marketing aspect, is to build relationships wide.

Because when you have more coverage, you are more known.

And that goes with your sales plan.

I believe it goes with your marketing plan as well.

It has to be an overall strategic plan that once we land the

fish, so to speak, right?

Once you grab that big fish, now what?

Now what?

My thinking has always been what will we do when we achieve x?

I focus more on what will we do when we achieve X rather than how will we

achieve x or so much energy being expended on getting just too x. You know, a

great example is this writing a book.

So there's so many people that would love to write a book, And they

wanna write a bestselling book.

Okay, let's put yourself in the seat that it is a bestseller.

Now what?

Now what's the plan?

And I think in organizations, individuals and organizations, we work so hard on

getting to the goal that we don't know how to market or sell beyond the goal.

And so that's where I think that planning and just taking it step

by step, step-by-step leads to more clarity and less overwhelm.

But I think you need to know what you're gonna do once you get to where, you

know, you've worked so hard to get.

And so when you look at that and you look at the possible

next steps for founders, like what types of different sales do you

see them using or ones that they're missing out that they could use?

And I'm talking like direct sales, inbound sales, referrals, authority type stuff

on stage, books, events, all the things.

What types of sales do you see them using?

KJB - Kelly Jahner-Byrne: Well, I see founders and CEOs, we

just did a bestselling book and we took 12 first time authors.

Across the finish line that's one thing that we do with the how companies

is the, how gal is the speaking aspect and the coaching aspect.

But we have how publishing and so, and how stands for help others win.

That's, so if people are wondering what is the how gal, it's help others win.

That's our company.

That's what we do.

But with these 12 new bestsellers, we knew that we were gonna get 'em to bestseller.

How do we know?

Well, there's no guarantee but it's a winners thought process.

And I kept drilling down with the authors.

Okay, you're a bestseller now.

What?

Oh, I just can't wait to get there.

Why?

So, I think we have to begin with the question.

Why?

So when you're asking about, you know, how do you apply inbound sales or outbound

sales, I think you need to know why.

Why do you wanna achieve something?

This is a trap.

I see.

Happening, you know, in the US especially we have a lot of people that have

gone fractional, they're fractional workers from fractional CMOs to A CEO

to, you know what, whatever role you have, fractional operations directors.

In fact we have, in our company, we have fractional tech.

And it's an interesting piece that for the sales part of it, we are always looking

at why do we want to achieve something?

And here is our magic bullet.

We change our mind because sometimes your why changes and that is okay.

And I believe that sometimes companies get stuck.

A bigger ship is harder to move, but sometimes companies get stuck on a

goal that they're going to achieve.

Here's an example.

You want to write a book, it's not in your idea to be a bestseller.

You just wanna write a book to get the ideas out on paper.

For Legacy.

That's a great goal, right?

You wanna sell that book, or maybe you wanna gift that book.

But if you look at what is the why?

The why is I wanna leave a legacy, a question could

then become a legacy To who?

Just those closest to you or would you like to do some legacy work?

And then the why changes.

The why changes because of the impact you want to make.

But for inbound sales are outbound sales.

I think that we always need to be focusing on what is our next best step.

Clarity.

And then asking why is it important?

Why do we wanna get there?

And I find with small business owners and some fractional folks,

sometimes it's just a checkbox.

I won't tell you that's the right or the wrong answer because sometimes people need

to have a checkbox, you know, I did that.

I bungee jumped.

I'm never doing that, by the way.

not something I ever wanna be doing.

But if that's your goal, why?

And so, you know, the whole sales piece, I believe the days of I don't

wanna say influencers are done, but I think people are questioning why does

someone have such influence and why do people buy, why are they buying?

And I believe there will always be an emotional piece in sales,

whether it's inbound, outbound, there will always be an emotional piece.

And I hope that there's always an emotional piece because it's people

that are involved in the process.

Oh, I love everything you've just said there.

And again, so aligned with the type of work that I do at my clients in

terms of building their brands as well.

We always come back with starting with why and what are your

fundamental beliefs around that.

But I also love what you said about showing up with that winning mindset.

I think that's the conviction that you need to show up with

every day in your business.

And when you're missing that, then people can feel it and they're

less likely to connect and engage with you and wanna buy from you.

Kelly talking about sales, one of the things that, again, I've seen with

clients is that sometimes they just.

They get stuck in that again, revenue plateau almost.

And in terms of moving forward, what is the fastest path to revenue versus the

most sustainable path to revenue growth.

KJB - Kelly Jahner-Byrne: I think a fast path to revenue is obviously

understanding who you're selling to, I think that is massively important.

You've gotta understand your client otherwise you're never gonna get,

you know, across the finish line, whatever that finish line is for you.

Right.

But I do believe that when people get to a plateau, I think you have to look

at, is there more money in the market?

Right.

I guess if you're taking the assumption that you can make more and there

is more money in the market to be made, I think sometimes the revenue

plateau comes back to systems.

What are your systems in place?

In the last year we've implemented a different CRM system.

Painful, really painful, but once you get past the pain of implementing the

system, now you have an understanding of why you are at where you're at.

I do believe that revenue plateaus, it depends on your industry and it does

depend on, you know, what you're doing.

If you're working with a two person operation, could they go

to tens of millions, I suppose?

In theory they could, but I think you have to be realistic as well as

where can you collaborate to sell more, market more and earn more.

So the revenue plateau, I think also is a mindset.

Hmm.

KJB - Kelly Jahner-Byrne: We've always done it this way.

If we continue to, go, we've always done it this way, I think in some cases

that will hurt us, but I believe when it comes to people skills, people are people

we've evolved, but we haven't changed.

We still need to be seen, heard, loved, trusted, liked.

Those are basic needs.

And I do believe that when you really sharpen your skills, you

increase the ability to get past a revenue plateau because you're

growing yourself as a person as well.

I see it in salespeople that, you know, the old school salespeople, I've

been in this industry for 30 years and this is how we do it, and then

all of a sudden something changes.

Well, what changed?

Some of the players are not the same, so it's the people that changed, right?

So are you continuously building the relationships with the new people?

You have.

So a revenue plateau for me brings in three basic questions.

What has changed?

Why has it changed?

And how are we going to best address the changes?

Three great questions for people to reflect

on when they're listening.

And you mentioned there as you were talking about marketing

more and selling more.

In your world, where does marketing end and sales begin?

KJB - Kelly Jahner-Byrne: I think that they have to be connected.

I don't believe that marketing can be going one direction

and sales is going the other.

We see that in regimes that are changing.

So if sales is old school and marketing is new school.

Sales might not be using the marketing strategy and plan.

They may be just going down, well, this is what I've always done and you know,

I'm experienced and I know the industry.

Well, then what you start to do is you start to, you know, bend the resources.

'cause you're wasting money on marketing.

There are more organizations today I believe, that are wasting money

on marketing because sales and marketing aren't hanging out together.

You know, this is a good time to, get together and have a pint and have a chat.

So that you've built a relationship inside of your own organization

between sales and marketing

I'd love for you to share an example of a really great

sales conversation that went well because marketing did its job first.

KJB - Kelly Jahner-Byrne: Well, when marketing does its job first

you have the right messaging.

Because what happens when salespeople are saying something other than the

messaging, then that's not a good thing.

Here would be a simple example, A brand we all can understand.

Nike, their tagline.

Just do it.

Okay, if you are, and this is brutal, but let's just say that you are very

unhealthy looking, severely overweight and you are the Nike sales rep.

Well, you are not just doing it, you're doing something else, right?

And so I think that in that, you know, kind of grossly contrasting example,

people could understand that you need to speak and look like what you're marketing.

You know, for me, the How Gal that's a strange name, right?

It's a weird name that we've had since 2017 when we rebranded,

so how people don't come to me to learn how to do anything.

Right.

I don't know.

Show people how to do 'em.

People come to me because they wanna be helped and in sales, more people

want to be helped than gotten.

So when we start using language, like we need to get more sales, I think

we're shooting ourselves in the foot.

We need to help more people achieve what they want with the

products or services that we have.

And marketing needs to be in alignment with that.

So sales can continue to put out the message.

When it's not congruent and it's not consistent, then we have chaos.

And there's where your lack of confidence comes in because it's a lack of clarity.

So it's, for me, it's very, very simple.

And sometimes people say that, well, I'm in sales and marketing.

I believe marketing is in sales, and sales is in marketing.

And if they're ever not holding hands the relationship is broken, you know, and.

Yeah.

KJB - Kelly Jahner-Byrne: we have chaos then.

So I think it's two separate interwoven tasks that have to happen

within a company, or even if you're a solopreneur or a small business

owner with just limited staff you need to look at it because I don't

think one exists without the other.

There are not just great salespeople.

I believe that great salespeople are great little marketers as well, because

they take the message and they bring it to life because they solve the problem.

And

Mm-hmm.

KJB - Kelly Jahner-Byrne: money exchanges hands.

I love that.

And same principle in my mindset and an analogy that I use to help people

understand this a little bit better is if there's an airplane in the sky, you've

got two engines, one on each side, one is sales and the other is marketing.

If one of those engines dropped, you know, the plane is gonna be in trouble.

It's not gonna get to its destination as easily as it could and vice versa.

Because you mentioned about marketing and the impact that can have in

sales and that messaging alignment.

How can people take feedback from the sales side to sharpen their

marketing and their messaging?

KJB - Kelly Jahner-Byrne: They absolutely should take it from the sales side as

well, two scenarios, if you have a sales relationship, an existing sales

relationship, let's call it a mature, long-term sales relationship, and the

salespeople are seeing that, you know, X, y, Z is company is struggling.

Because what we're selling them, isn't working and it's not a product development

or a service development type issue.

What could be happening is that the salespeople are, you

know, not in alignment with what the message actually is.

So the sales folks should be telling what's going on out in the industry.

So marketing can sharpen the saw.

You know, if something isn't selling and you have good salespeople, I

would look at a couple of things.

I would look at what are the salespeople telling?

Are we overselling our boots, right?

Are we over marketing?

And I see that a lot, and that is in a lack of customer service.

You know, look at big brands, Walmart, they're not known for customer service.

They're known as the low price leader.

So if you go into Walmart looking for a, higher end store experience,

well then whose fault is that?

Is it the customer?

Could be.

But you know, Walmart is known as the low price leader.

That is what they market to, and that is what they get, and that's

what their customers are looking for.

So the sales process and the marketing process is, it's on brand, it's on task.

But if you have a little boutique shop and you're very service focused

and you know, everything is very nice, people will have an expectation

because that's your message.

They're not walking through the door.

If they find cheap goods in there, then the messaging is off, right?

You're trying to be something to everybody.

And that is where salespeople get really frustrated is when marketing

doesn't listen to what's going on or they haven't done their market research.

So that is where you really do have to have a partnership when teams in sales

and teams in marketing are at odds.

I just see frustration and I see a lot of dollars that go out of a company just

whos serious dollars go out of a company.

But I think the time needs to be spent on good marketing so that you

actually know what you're selling.

I find so many salespeople don't really know what they're selling.

I've got, you know?

with founders as well, and like a lot of the

people listening are solopreneurs,

KJB - Kelly Jahner-Byrne: Mm-hmm.

they're scaling their business to several hundred thousand

and they struggle with their offer, and because they're not clear on their

offer, you said if you confuse, you lose.

I say that same statement, A confused mind will never buy, but

also a confused mind will never sell

KJB - Kelly Jahner-Byrne: Mm-hmm.

because

KJB - Kelly Jahner-Byrne: sure.

know your offers.

Right.

And for people who are listening, Kelly, if they have their sales and

marketing fully aligned what could that look like inside their business?

KJB - Kelly Jahner-Byrne: If your sales and marketing are really

aligned, one thing is you have peace.

And I think a lot of founders and small business owners would like to have a

little bit more peace knowing that things are working and there is the factor of

time that everything, you can't just put together a marketing campaign and poo and

the next morning, you know, you go viral.

Yes, companies do that, but let's be realistic for those people that are

scaling their business to, you know, maybe you're trying to get to your

first a hundred k. And now you've had offers that are at two or 3000.

You have experience now.

So unless you're going to stay in the two or 3000 lane and you

wanna grow and serve more of them, then there's gotta be more of you.

To be able to do that.

And I see oftentimes as founders or solopreneurs, small business owners are

trying to scale to their next couple of a hundred thousand or maybe get to their

first million, you need to either kind of increase who you are working with

or you need to go a little bit wider.

There needs to be some sort of a system in place that you can serve more.

Otherwise, that's where people get stuck in that money milestone.

And if you want to stay in that lane, that is okay.

I see it with coaches.

A coach charges hypothetically $5,000 for a coaching package.

Well, you have so much bandwidth, so yes, you can grow to a point, but

unless you can invent more hours.

Or a more rinse and repeat or a, an introductory program that is a

lead generator that you market that where you get some lower hanging

fruit, it will be very difficult.

You'll always have this same book of business and your prices will increase

with, you know, your 3% or whatever.

And for some people that's what they want and that is okay.

But if you want growth, you better be talking to marketing

and continuously analyzing what's happening in the marketplace and

keep sharpening your message.

The sharper you get your messaging, the clearer the funnel is.

The customers that are looking for you or need what you have, you'll

connect, you'll find one another.

Oh yes.

Oh, just agree with everything you're saying, Kelly.

I think this is why we get on so well.

I'm like, it sounds like the kind of thing I'd say as well.

I love it.

And it's so nice to hear other people who are on the exact same wavelength.

It's great.

And Kelly, let me just go back and ask you about the books and the

speaking events and the stages and

KJB - Kelly Jahner-Byrne: Hmm.

like that, and how when they're done right, that they

can help you grow your business,

KJB - Kelly Jahner-Byrne: Absolutely.

plateau and that sales and marketing piece, bringing that together.

KJB - Kelly Jahner-Byrne: So I wrote my first book in 2001, and I went down

the, traditional self-publishing path.

And I wrote the book for it was a checkbox.

To be very transparent is I love books.

I'm an avid reader.

And as a young gal, I love to be at the library.

I'd ride my bike to the library and I loved books, and I just I think

knowledge is really, really powerful.

So when I wrote that first book, bear in mind at the time I was, you know, I

know we've got an international audience, but I was Mrs. Minnesota at the time.

So here I am, a corporate woman, and I ran to be Mrs. Minnesota and I won.

And during that time, I had a great mentor that said, because I'm, I've

been a speaker for years, many, many, many years more than 25 years.

And a mentor of mine said, you need to write that book now.

And I wrote that book on volunteerism.

Okay.

These are lanes, right?

I'm a corporate gal working in the hotel industry.

I'm speaking and I'm Mrs. Minnesota.

How did I make that work for me?

Well, I wrote about my volunteer experiences because everything that

I had a chance to learn in marketing and in sales and in nonprofit and

all these, I wrote about, and that book then became a calling card.

And a book is, you know, it's a forever thing.

So that book, volunteer for Life became, you know, we sold it,

we sold like 2,500 copies of it.

It was a crazy experience.

And it was really, really fun.

And the process in which I wrote it was, you know, it was fast.

We wrote it over a weekend and a couple of months later it was done.

So we do things with speed, that is our marketing line.

We do things that are excellent and we do them at a pace.

So, fast forward, I have this book and, you know, volunteer work is

a heartbeat of our world, right?

We all need that.

It's a great training ground.

It's a great place to practice your marketing skills.

It's really a great place to practice your sales skills because

who's gonna beat up a volunteer?

Right?

You know, we're volunteering to do good, right?

For heart Association or cancer research or whatever.

So, fast forward as I grow my business and I leave the corporate world, I know that

a book is an incredible marketing tool, but most people don't know how to use it.

You know, Deirdre, it's just so frustrating that people are

like, yep, I wanna write a book.

And they have zero plan.

Well, my philosophy is if you're gonna write a book, then write a bestseller.

And there is a strategy behind that.

So, last year before my birthday in August my publishing friend said, you

know, you re need to get your book going.

And I'm like, well, I wanna self-publish it and put my

own name on it, which we did.

We wrote the book in 33 days.

So from pen, 'cause we did do pen to paper con conceptually.

And then of course, you know, typing away from that time to the release

of the book was 33 days and it went bestseller in five categories.

How did we use that to market?

We took the message, which is how to win, right?

So help others win to win.

That's our whole theme.

So the title was a marketing piece and it's truth.

So marketing doesn't work either if it isn't truth.

You can do it, but I know in your experience, it doesn't last.

It's gotta last.

Yeah.

KJB - Kelly Jahner-Byrne: this book,

once you have your book what most people think is that, oh,

we're gonna sell tons of copies, you know, in a bookstore online.

No, you take that book with you everywhere you go and it becomes your calling card.

And I don't wanna let people say that it's an expensive calling card.

It becomes your calling card because you add value to it in the way you present it.

And those are some of the tactics and sales strategies that our company uses

with how publishing to help people build brand authority and to build sales you

know, just sales exceptional results.

But so many people don't do that thing.

I said early on.

Okay.

Once you have it right, once it's in your hot little hand, the

book now what do we do with it?

What's the plan after?

And I believe that if you have clarity on the plan, after and after, it makes

taking that next best step, simple.

And you stop being paralyzed with imposter syndrome and you

know, oh, is this gonna work?

Fear is gonna be with you all the time.

It's just part of it.

But fear and excitement live in the same heart shaken world.

Flip fear to excitement, not blind excitement but flip it to

excitement and your next best steps.

You just focus on that, the rhythm of the next best step.

And you forecast what do we do once we get to this pinnacle and this pinnacle?

That's the dreaming in business.

Entrepreneurs need to be dreamers, gotta have a little bit of a dreamer.

Marketing has to be dreamers.

Mm-hmm.

KJB - Kelly Jahner-Byrne: 'cause how do you other you exist?

But this book literally when used properly, is an incredible marketing tool.

It's an incredible sales tool.

It's an incredible authority tool, and it can really make the finance people happy.

'cause it builds the bottom line.

And what if somebody says, Kelly, I'm not ready to write a book.

KJB - Kelly Jahner-Byrne: Good luck, Chuck.

Nobody's ready to write a book.

If you are ready to write a book, you should have done it five years ago.

My opinion.

But, you know, here's the deal.

most people spend their life getting ready to get ready and then they're dead.

Then somebody else is getting you ready for the presentation, if

you know what I mean, the viewing.

So you're never gonna be ready.

So how do you get confident or comfortable with not being ready?

Get your marketing message down so you can lean back and rest

confidently that we've done the work.

And then every small success, you should tuck it behind you in your

mind . Don't rest on your laurels.

I believe that is a kiss of death, but tuck it behind you and say, you know what?

I just need one little confident inch.

You know, when we stand, we've all probably done it.

We've stood in a line for something, for Disney, for concert

tickets to enter a theater.

We've all stood in line.

And there is something about standing at the very back of

the line that is daunting.

I look at business as like being in a line.

What's interesting, if you were just to do that little inch forward,

that little shuffle forward, if you did that continuously and you were

in a long line continuously for 30 minutes, how far would you be?

It's the same thing with exercise.

It's the same thing with marketing.

Get the idea down.

Just sketch something that looks good, put it behind us, step forward, and

so many people are getting ready to get ready, that if you would just

put something down on paper and then just keep writing and writing.

It's easier to take stuff off the menu than it is to dream

up what's gonna be on the menu.

And then surround yourself with people.

Anybody that says they're a self-made man or a self-made woman, or a self-made

millionaire is lying to themselves and they're lying to the world

because how do you get to a million if somebody didn't buy your stuff?

So that self-made I believe, is a selfish and term that that is

I think it hurts your business.

So we don't ever say that we have a team of people.

Even when I was a solopreneur, I sought out advice and I purchase

services from other people.

So nobody makes it on their own.

And I believe that when you use a book, you are able to

share your knowledge with many.

When you use good marketing strategies, you can share your ideas with many.

And when you bring good marketing people on, you bring another bigger brain.

'cause I don't believe any one person has all the answers for sure.

That's such great advice, everything you said there.

Folks take note and great advice.

You are ready to write your book is the answer you'll get otherwise, and.

KJB - Kelly Jahner-Byrne: You're gonna always get that answer.

You're ready to write your book.

Unless you don't.

I would say what you should do is if you don't know what you wanna write about,

if you're at this juncture where I wanna write a book because I just wanna

write a book, then what I would do is I would brainstorm three basic topics.

What are three things that, you know, something you don't need

to be an expert to write a book.

What are three things you know, something about?

Mm.

KJB - Kelly Jahner-Byrne: you know a lot about something then there's your lane.

Amazing.

And when people get that concept and idea out and they're in the writing

stage, how can they use that book before it's even published or a bestseller

to start Better conversations.

KJB - Kelly Jahner-Byrne: Marketing, you know, so when we did our book our

first book, and remember this is 2001.

This is a, you know, before some of our listeners were probably even

born, I'm gathering or some of our listeners were maybe just starting

out in their businesses too as well.

So when we did that, what we did is we knew that we could have a cover design.

We didn't know what all of the content would be.

And in fact, we changed direction of how the book would

be written a couple of times.

But we figured out, we knew that the title was going to be volunteer.

It was centered around volunteerism.

And we made it very simple.

We didn't overthink it.

It was called Volunteer for Life.

Because I at that point up, you know, I had been a volunteer

since I was seven years old.

My, my mother voluntold me, you will show up here.

Right?

So I knew that I had gained so much from being a volunteer.

I'd learned skills from being on the radio to writing a marketing plan,

to sales skills, to understanding what a p and l was and everything in

between, what a silent auction was and all of the things that go into

many different facets of fundraising.

We did that book and we had that tagline, volunteer for life.

We didn't quite yet have.

You know, the achieving your personal and professional goals.

We didn't quite have that yet, but we created a mockup cover that we were

able to use when I spoke and when I was, you know, telling people ab about it.

And we used that literally because the process was, we wrote in May, and

then we did editing and all of that.

And the book was in my hot little hand in August, which is very fast for the time.

But we used it to you know, create curiosity.

I know marketers love that, that's music to your ears.

We used it to create curiosity.

Think about this for a second.

You have a corporate gal that's Mrs. Minnesota coming in to speak for,

let's just say a chamber of commerce.

Curiosity was peak.

She's a corporate gal. And you know, obviously I'm beating

up the pageantry world, right?

You know, but does this girl have any brain in her head, right?

Because we may have that stigma, I can tell you that if anybody's

getting across the finish line, there's a lot of brain in that head.

'cause it takes a lot of brain to do that.

So it created enough curiosity because the tagline volunteer for life was

what is she going to talk about?

And so that curiosity drove some book sales as well.

So I would say that if you're writing a book and you wanna

use it for good marketing think about what your title will be.

But don't get stuck on it.

Don't get analysis paralysis.

Short, sweet, and to the point.

Simple.

Understandable.

Interesting cur curiosity.

and I think that's a great connection as well between

having the book out there and then the speaking gigs that can come with it even

before the book goes live, potentially.

And can, 'cause I know you do a lot of conferences, Kelly, and you

KJB - Kelly Jahner-Byrne: Mm-hmm.

about this area as well.

So how does speaking accelerate sales for people?

Can you touch on that?

KJB - Kelly Jahner-Byrne: Absolutely.

Most people would rather die than be in the front of the room.

Right.

Get up and speak.

And women, you know, so I'm speaking to all of our women listeners, women

oftentimes shrink you know, back rather than taking the microphone.

I believe that there are some great tactics that you know, when you can get

up in, in front of the room and speak a little bit, it gives you authority.

You know, it's like the, we've been taught, right?

The teachers in the front of the room, they have more knowledge than we do.

Which is not always the case, right?

Just because you're in front of the room doesn't mean you're

the smartest one in the room.

But speaking takes a level of courage.

And courage takes sometimes a little bit of clarity.

Lots of people are courageous and don't have crystal clarity, but they

do know that there is a purpose.

So, when you're in front of the room and you've got this book and you

are in business, it's a trifecta.

I believe so.

I believe that there are more people that have a book in them

with some great knowledge to share.

Then then is coming forward.

Even though on Amazon, there's millions and millions of books that go up, you

know, that are there and available.

I believe that it is a, an incredible communication tool

and an incredible marketing tool.

It will grow your sales if you,

Hmm

KJB - Kelly Jahner-Byrne: we have one author that wrote their book and has great

content, but they didn't have a strategy.

There was no marketing strategy behind the launch.

Well, what do you suppose happened to the book?

There was very, very few sales.

So, do you know what we did?

We pulled it down and we're back in the drawing board.

Because, you know, it wasn't printed or anything.

It was just available on Kindle.

And we pulled it down because it, there were so many things wrong.

We didn't think the marketing through, so we helped that client

think the marketing through.

So I believe when it, when we are ready to launch shortly,

that it will go bestseller.

We're good at that.

Yeah, you

KJB - Kelly Jahner-Byrne: good.

We're good at that.

Yes, we have,

at that.

KJB - Kelly Jahner-Byrne: we only wanna publish bestsellers, so if you

wanna publish a book, come to us.

And if we don't think we can help you, we'll refer you.

You know?

'cause not all business is good business.

Mm-hmm.

love that too.

That totally aligns with me as well, Kelly.

I'm the same and I do the exact same thing.

Like you can't help everybody.

You can help us select few and that's better.

And Kelly, for the people who are going to leverage their book, or whether

they do or they don't have a book, how can they you mentioned sales from the

speaking opportunities, so how could they potentially turn one speaking

opportunity into multiple revenue streams?

Can you speak to that?

KJB - Kelly Jahner-Byrne: So one speaking opportunity.

You know, this is a great example because it's a real one and it just happened.

So I spoke at an event and in the audience, at the event,

there was about 600 women.

It was a women's conference in Minnesota where I live, and I spoke at that

conference and what happened was somebody was in the audience that was like,

oh my goodness, we have to have her.

So I ended up speaking at this other person's conference, and

it was about six months later.

In the process of that six months, I wrote my book How to Win.

And what I did was I had the book available.

Now I gave several copies of the book away as just giveaways and goodwill.

And, you know, I know my audience.

And I wanna help people.

So I gave it away to some young people.

The second conference I spoke at, I think live there was a thousand and

I think there was another 300 online.

So we gave that away, but I had the opportunity to sell that book.

In the back from the sales of that book, there was another person that got

a hold of the book and looked me up to see where in the world does she live.

Well, now I am going to an event.

I'll be doing something with the Milwaukee Bucks.

That's the professional basketball team.

They have a women's event called Her Day, Milwaukee Bucks Herd.

Right?

So her day, and I'll be doing something for that where we will have the

opportunity to sell more books there.

So it becomes a little bit of a, you know, rolling the snowball, the snowball's

getting bigger and bigger and bigger.

And the book creates curiosity.

It's a marketing tool.

The book can also be used as a tool, another tool.

When I am speaking, I could wrap it right into the fee and give everybody

a book because in that little book How to Win, there are some note pages.

So depending on how your book is set up.

It could be course materials, it could be a secondary revenue generator.

It's an authority builder.

And it can absolutely be the very big one thing, and that is a confidence builder.

It's just such excitement to have your book in your hand and look at

it and say, you know, there it is.

I got that outta my head and, into the wide world.

Hmm.

KJB - Kelly Jahner-Byrne: many ways that you can RevGen from your,

you know, from your printed word.

And so, I don't think everybody is right for writing a book.

I don't think a book is right for everybody, but I do believe a book

is right for a number of people.

But I think you should be crystal clear on why, what is the why?

And that comes back to really good marketing, figuring out what's the

message and why is the message important.

I see a lot of authors that write and they don't sell very many books, and

then that has the opposite effect.

Hmm.

KJB - Kelly Jahner-Byrne: If you've written your heart out and

edited and you've spent thousands.

Lots of people spend 20, 30, 40, $50,000 on a book that goes nowhere.

Yeah, it's crazy.

it can be a real bummer.

One of my coaching clients two years ago wrote a book.

She unfortunately lost her husband on her 50th birthday trip to Mexico.

He had a heart attack and, you know, a freak just unfortunate thing.

And she wrote a book about what she learned about this.

And it really is a financial book.

'cause she was 50 and wasn't the head of the finances.

Well, when she went down this road, she knew she really needed

to write the book for healing.

But she found an editor that really isn't a book editor.

Bad marketing plan.

Bad marketing plan.

Right.

And then she went to a book publishing company that told her

it would be another 18 months.

So that wasn't a great fit for her because she was a widow.

That was grieving a shorter, faster process.

Less expensive.

Might've been better.

Well, she was a coaching client and we spun that around a little bit

and saved her probably I'm gonna say conservatively we probably saved her

6,000, you know, euro, so I dunno, 7,000 bucks, something like that.

Whatever, whatever it is today.

Right.

But I think that's a lot of money, you know, that, and in the scheme

of things, for a big company, it might not be a lot, but I think that

for a solopreneur, that's a lot.

So.

If you're going to do this book thing, I think you need to think it through

and get some good input and be beware of where you get the advice from.

Look at the track record.

Look at the track record.

So don't just be marketed to, because there's a lot of talented, you know,

deirdre's out there in the world that are, that's their job is to market.

Your job as a consumer is to understand what your needs are.

Truly understand what your needs are before you buy.

Yes.

Okay.

I wanna shift gears a little bit and talk about networking and

the difference between strategic networking and random networking.

KJB - Kelly Jahner-Byrne: Yes.

Most people you know, I see here in the US there's lots of events from a

Chamber of Commerce to you know, an association type group or a conference.

And what I see is oftentimes people don't have.

A strategic marketing plan to why and where they network.

So, here's three quick tips.

Don't be impressed with how many people are in the room.

'cause you can be in a room you know, if you are you know, Herod's

and your in Walmart networking, you're not gonna find your clients.

Right?

And equally as much, if you have Walmart type items and you are in

Herods, they will see no value in you.

And so we have to be smart about the rooms we're in.

So the first thing I wanna speak to is, don't judge a room by its number.

Just like you wouldn't judge a book by its cover.

Don't judge a room by its number.

When people say, oh, there was only a hundred people there, you

know, I thought it would be bigger.

I'll tell you what my secret mind says.

You had zero plan, and you are on the McDonald's Supersize Me plan, which

I wonder how that's working for you.

You know?

And so when I go to an event I use this, my PSA plan, scan Action plan.

If you do not plan who you need to meet either personally or professionally,

we all have personal needs and there's businesses out there that

will sell to you and help that when your personal house is in order, your

professional house is easier in order.

So who do you need to meet personally?

Who do you need to meet professionally?

And who did you just meet that you could brag on?

Because that makes you look like a bigger person, that you're not just,

you know, Sally, the salesperson, trying to make a quick buck.

So that to me is a plan.

What do you do if you show up late?

What's that plan?

Most people walk in.

They've got, you know, a, if it's a lady a person on one hand, or you

know, big jacket or whatever, and you come in and you look unprepared.

People you come with that vibe.

It's human nature.

So you don't really have that ability.

So you need to plan who is it you need to meet?

And if I leave with, you know, one to four good connections, it was successful.

I don't care how many people were in the room because I can't logically grab.

You know, 50 cards unless you want to, unless you're doing the cold call thing.

So if that's your strategy, then go for it.

But for most people, that's not their strategy.

So, that networking piece I think is crucial.

And another tip is most people stay in the networking group that they've outgrown.

And that's a terrible marketing plan.

So if you continue to stay in swimming in the same pond, you know, you're gonna,

you're gonna stay in that same thing.

If you're a funeral home, right?

Yes, you are marketing to that same pond, but what you might be doing is

doing some outward marketing to people that could be moving to the area.

So you are moving outside the pond.

And I use a funeral home as an example because people get that.

That's a very personal and very local , business.

Yeah, it's service.

So like they say, the goldfish is only going to grow as

big as the bowl will hold.

The same is true with your networking

Yeah.

And great tips.

I love the PSA definitely.

I think everybody listening will be applying that going forward.

And so you mentioned action and I'm curious what action or thoughtful follow

up is really good after you've connected with somebody in networking event.

KJB - Kelly Jahner-Byrne: So that, you know, the PSA is

the plan when you get there.

The scan, scan the room.

I stay away from people that look like they are a circus or

that look negative or nervous.

I go for the best looking people in the room.

And what I mean by the best looking is the people that have

confidence, not cocky people that look happy, that look welcoming.

Because when I'm walking into a room, you know, I want to feel welcome.

I'm already maybe a little, you know, apprehensive.

I wanna feel welcome.

The action is what is your follow-up plan?

What is your follow-up plan that you will market yourself as a person first

before your service to your potential client or, to the new people you meet.

Action, I think is the one that people don't do.

And the old adage, the fortune is in the follow up.

It absolutely is.

I would venture to say, here's a question for listeners.

How many of you have business cards sitting on your desk or in a wallet

or a pocket that you've done nothing with, and you look at the card and

you have no idea who that person is?

Here's a tool, here's an action tool that you can do.

Look 'em up on LinkedIn.

Find out a little something about them.

Make a quick phone call and say, you know, if you don't even remember

what event it is you should maybe do a little research, but you you can

just say, you know, you be honest.

Act, action and accountability is transparency too.

Hey, Deirdre, I have your card on my desk and this is a voicemail or a live call.

I have your card on my desk and we met at an event and I thought enough

to you to grab the card, but in all honestly, I set the card and it got.

Shuffled around my desk and I know that I don't collect cards of people that that

I don't want to either help or serve.

So I would just love to get five minutes that we might reconnect, rekindle the

relationship and find out a little bit more about how we could help one another.

There's your script.

Love it.

So simple.

Like I say, transparent, quick, sharp, nice.

Oh, who wouldn't respond to that?

And be like, yeah let's catch up for five minutes.

KJB - Kelly Jahner-Byrne: Absolutely.

And that is a great, that's a great voicemail.

And it doesn't matter, whether you're in England or Ireland or you know,

Canada or America, when you just have a bit of an honest and transparent

but you have to tell them why.

Mm-hmm.

KJB - Kelly Jahner-Byrne: thought enough or it was important enough for me to

hold this card and it's moved around my desk and I just wanna be honest.

I know we needed to connect, and I just wanna get that first bold step forward.

Just be honest.

Love it.

KJB - Kelly Jahner-Byrne: That's good marketing.

It's, and it does create curiosity, right?

So Kelly, I'm super excited about our upcoming

event in April this year, 2026 in Ireland, which we intentionally

built as a two-part experience.

But first off, why don't you just talk to me a little bit about your

connection with Ireland and why you decided to partner with me on this.

KJB - Kelly Jahner-Byrne: Well, it was interesting because LinkedIn is

a powerful marketing tool and you know, Deirdre, you did the ultimate,

you created some curiosity, and lo and behold, here we are, we.

We connected and over these last many months, almost a year we've

talked back and forth, but I have been married to an Irishman.

He's a chef.

And so I've been married for 20 more than 28 years.

And so I am back and forth to Ireland quite often.

And it is definitely an interest to share some of the knowledge and

produce something internationally.

So this is just a wonderful, wonderful opportunity to do just that.

Oh, I'm so excited for it and it's gonna be epic

KJB - Kelly Jahner-Byrne: Oh, it's gonna be fast paced too.

It'll, we're gonna be moving and shaken so people will be learning and entertained.

We can't say that.

We'll have lots of hahas, but I think you're gonna have some haha

moments and some ahas as well.

for sure.

Haha and aha.

And we've intentionally designed this as a two part experience for people who attend.

So part of this looks like a two day training event, essentially, and then

a facilitated networking lunch with a wider audience that forms part of that.

So how about you share why we landed on that structure?

KJB - Kelly Jahner-Byrne: Absolutely, because we'll start with marketing

because everything comes with great messaging and clarity.

And so, Deirdre, you'll be teeing that up for all of us so that we can

really get our messaging sharp and honed and if we don't have a sharp

messaging, at least understand the structure and the process in doing that.

And most people are very confused when it comes around marketing.

They just throw something out there and hope that it works well.

We want to turn your hope into real help, and that's where this

marketing piece will come in.

And the other piece is people do not know how to sell.

They are very salesy.

We wanna take an approach that is different that if you're great in

sales, we'll be able to elevate it.

And if you're starting in sales, we aren't going to overwhelm you.

How do we marry that up?

Because we have a very specific room.

There's it's a limited seating, and we wanna make sure that the people

in the room can truly benefit.

Now, this wider event, the networking I have facilitated probably.

Over a hundred maybe it's 150 strategic structured networking events where you

are actually learning and practicing on people that you could do business with.

Everybody's in the same boat and we are learning together.

So this networking lunch will be great.

Don't think speed networking or speed dating or something that is very trite.

You will actually be able to look and identify who could be potential prospects.

So this wider event I'm excited about.

It's fun.

People really learn and you'll leave with some connections that you can

do business with or expand your wider circle and understand why, you know, it's

important to expand that wider circle.

So I'm really excited about welcoming lots of people to that luncheon and the right

people into the two day program with us.

It's going to be absolutely epic.

So if somebody wants 2026 to be their best year yet, you need to

be ready to come along with an open mind about your marketing, about your

sales, and about your networking.

Let's talk about who this event is not for Kelly.

'cause you said it's about the right people in the room and making sure

that we're circling in rooms that we know are gonna be beneficial for us.

So let's talk about who it's not for.

KJB - Kelly Jahner-Byrne: Well, I think it's not for the person

that has no desire to change.

I think that would be one.

I think that it's great to have a healthy sense of skepticism, but I think that

if you really wanna help grow your business, whether you are a founder or

you are somebody that is, you know, really scaling, there will be something there

for every one of you that are in the room.

I think it's for somebody that really wants to sharpen their saw

and really become good at effortless sales, at effortless conversations

and be getting structure around what you're doing and improving upon.

So it's for those people that really wanna grow, that are

ready to just say I need help.

I don't wanna do this alone anymore.

Or, we're having some success, but I wanna check in because I'm ready to grow.

I think that is really our target audience and the naysayers don't register.

Stay home.

Yes.

KJB - Kelly Jahner-Byrne: not ready to go, stay home.

If you're not ready to have some fun, stay home.

yeah, if you're not ready to grow, don't go simple

KJB - Kelly Jahner-Byrne: Exactly.

It's pretty simple.

Yeah.

And I think for anybody who's hit a revenue plateau, for anybody who's

about to take on , a sales person or a marketing person doing the work

that we are going to do in the room is going to set your team up and

your business up for future success.

So if you are in that space, this is also for you.

So Kelly, if somebody is listening and thinking, that sounds like a room that I

need to be in, what would you say to them?

KJB - Kelly Jahner-Byrne: I would say that you need to grab the link

and go in and apply, register.

We wanna know a little bit about you.

Deirdre and I are going to research who you are.

We want to know who's in the room and how we can best help you.

And that's why this room isn't a room for 150 people.

Because what I wanna do, if I'm traveling across the pond, so to speak,

I wanna be able to pour into those business owners that would really like

to grow, that would like to improve their connections, improve their

sales, and get your marketing on track.

This is a hands-on training.

So we'll ask you to bring some things so that you can best be prepared, because

two things I don't like to waste.

I can make more money, but I can't make more time.

And so I want to invest my time into those folks that really would like

to grow and want to do things better and maybe a little different but just

continue to work towards excellence.

Yes, and I think the same.

Expect us to reach out to you in advance and

KJB - Kelly Jahner-Byrne: Absolutely,

know that this is an international networking event.

It's not just going to be Irish folks.

There's gonna be folks from the United States and other countries

traveling to Ireland for this event.

So if you are a business owner and you want to expand your network

internationally and grow your connections, this is not to be missed.

Grab the link below the video and we'll see you there.

KJB - Kelly Jahner-Byrne: Absolutely.

We can't wait.

This is a chance for both Deirdre and I to share our networks as well because

you do need to practice what you preach.

I think it's, important.

So, if you look us up on LinkedIn, you'll see the the presence that we

have and I think that presence, I'd like to gift some of that forward

to people and connect people across the world to grow great business and

serve people at the highest level.

So grab the link and if you have to think about it too much, just grab the link.

Let's go.

Fantastic.

Kelly, thank you so much for joining me on The Master Your Business podcast.

What an educational conversation it was that was both full of hahas and

ahas and plenty more of those to come in our in-person event soon.

KJB - Kelly Jahner-Byrne: Absolutely.

We'll see you soon.

Wowsers, there were so many truth bombs in today's

episode, but let's recap with three.

First.

Clarity breeds confidence, not the other way around.

Despite what you might think second of sales and marketing aren't

aligned, you are leaking revenue.

Full stop.

That's it.

And third, the rooms you're in matter.

If you've outgrown the goldfish bowl that you're in, you need

to expand into a bigger one.

So here's your one actionable step that you can action immediately

from listening to this episode.

Go away.

Audit your messaging.

Ask yourself if my sales conversation and my marketing content sat

down for coffee, would they sound like they're the same person?

If the answer is no, that's what you need to work on next.

And if this episode lit a fire under you and maybe you're thinking, Ooh,

this is something that I'd like to learn more about, go and check out

the show notes where Kelly and I are hosting an in-person event Also.

If the networking session resonated to you, go back and listen to

My Mastery Business episode on building a category of one brand.

It will connect the dots beautifully for you.

Okay.

If this conversation helped you see your business differently, share it

with one entrepreneur who's stuck at a revenue plateau right now.

And if you're loving the Master Your Business Podcast, take 30 seconds

to rate, review and follow the show wherever you're listening in today.

Because the more founders we help master sales messaging and momentum, the fewer

brilliant businesses stay invisible, and that that is the mission right there.

Until next time, keep mastering your business.