How to Make and Keep Friends as an Adult

Why does making friends as an adult feel so much harder than it did in college or your early 20s, and what actually helps?

In Part 2 of our Friendship in America series, Maria Eliades talks with Alexandra Friedman, founder of Connection Feast, about adult friendship, loneliness, making new friends, keeping old ones, and what healthy friendships actually look and feel like.

After moving back to Seattle and struggling to build meaningful friendships, Alex started hosting structured dinners for strangers. Those gatherings eventually grew into Connection Feast, a company focused on helping adults build deeper connections and stronger social skills.

In this episode, Maria and Alexandra talk about why just meeting more people doesn’t always lead to the friendships we want, why friendships aren't convenient, and why finding the right people may mean leaning harder into the things that make you just a bit weird.

They also discuss:

• Why people can feel lonely even when they have friends or romantic partners
• How to make friends as an adult when you’re starting over in a new city
• Why the places we choose to meet people matter
• How many times to initiate activities before giving up
• Why “Hey, how are you?” can sometimes make reconnecting harder
• Why friendship breakups can hurt as much as romantic breakups
• How friendships change through marriage, parenthood, moves, and other life transitions

Plus, Alex answers a listener question about how to tell if a friendship has red flags, especially when disagreements happen.

If you’ve ever wondered how to make friends as an adult, how to keep friendships alive through life changes, or how to know if a friendship is worth repairing, this episode is for you.

About Alexandra Friedman

Alexandra Friedman is a Friendship and Connection Coach, community builder, and founder of Connection Feast, a social wellness company helping adults and people-focused companies build deeper friendships and strong social skills. Since 2018 she has guided close to 3,000 people through workshops, events, and coaching experiences that teach adults how to move past small talk, create meaningful relationships, and build a more connected life.

Our Pandora’s Box is a podcast for women in their late 20s (and late 20s at heart) who want to live life on their own terms.

Subscribe to the Our Pandora’s Box Substack and join the conversation at ourpandorasbox.substack.com.

Alexandra Friedman: People feel lonely even if they are in amazing, quote-unquote, romantic relationships, or not amazing. I mean, that can sometimes feel obvious. and this depth of loneliness, I believe sometimes can happen for a multitude of reasons. Oftentimes, when I'm working with clients and people, it's like lacking a deep connection to ourselves initially. Of course, there's other things, like how our culture is set up. Social media and parasocial relationships, burnout, and things that I think actually turn off our natural instinct to have deeper human connection. That is one element. But oftentimes, I see this happening because people are kind of avoiding that truth of themselves and digging deeper with themselves, and then knowing how to share that with other people.

Maria Eliades: And since we're getting much more personal this time, I thought I would, too.

Maria Eliades: When I went back to the U.S. after spending my 20s in Turkey, it was hard. My closest friends were now scattered across the world. One of my older close friends was now married and had not only kids, but also a vicious two-hour commute.

Maria Eliades: And most of my other friends from before had changed. Between reverse culture shock and having become a different person, many of my old friendships simply didn't fit anymore. But some did. And you know what? That whole experience is okay. It wasn't easy, and it took me a long time to find my footing in New York and in the U.S.

Maria Eliades: And my guest in this episode also understands that. Alexandra Friedman moved back to her hometown of Seattle, Washington, after almost two decades of living in other parts of the U.S. She knew almost no one when she returned, but she was determined to start fresh.

Maria Eliades: Despite that, she struggled, which led her to create a series of dinners that evolved into a full-time company called Connection Feast. Now, Alex and her team help adults and companies build deeper friendships and stronger social skills.

Maria Eliades: I really had a good time and had a really open conversation with Alex about staying friends through life transitions, how people look for friendship in all the wrong places, and what you can do to make or keep friends, whether you've moved to a new place or you want to reconnect to friends you already had.

Maria Eliades: So let's get into this conversation about friendship.

​

Alexandra Friedman: Thank you so much for having me, Maria. I'm excited to be in this box with you and dig deeper.

Maria Eliades: So I always open up the show with asking people how would you describe yourself in your 20s?

Alexandra Friedman: Oh my goodness. I love this question so much. In my 20s, I would describe myself as kind of like feeling like I needed to fit in a box, do the things and like earn my way into respect and to being able to feel as though I couldn't necessarily go for the creative part.

Alexandra Friedman: Like, "You can't find me here,

Alexandra Friedman: can't

Alexandra Friedman: find me here." And maybe a little bit of a Jack-in-the-Box, like popping up and you never know when it's gonna happen. It's like I just couldn't stay contained in the box, but I still felt like I had to play by the rules. And so I didn't quite escape the box matrix in that decade yet.

Maria Eliades: Yeah, I feel like that's what a lot of us go through in our 20s. We're, like, figuring out who we are and then also going back against, like, societal expectations of who women are supposed to be, right? How we're supposed to act, uh, how we're supposed to navigate a situation, and then finding out, what it is for ourselves that actually makes sense.

Alexandra Friedman: Yeah. It was interesting because, when I graduated from college, I went to a internship in New York.

Alexandra Friedman: and then I remember walking down the street and being like, "If I stay in New York, I'm probably gonna end up exactly where I think I will. I'm gonna be some VP of some, you know, like advertising agency,

Maria Eliades: Mm-hmm.

Alexandra Friedman: and, I'll be in a penthouse."

Maria Eliades: Okay.

Alexandra Friedman: That's what I did. I went to Santa Fe, New Mexico, and tried to figure out, exactly what I wanted to do if it wasn't going to be, like, living in Manhattan, being a travel writer, working in advertising.

Alexandra Friedman: And so I think that was my way of kind of poking outside the box a little bit. Like, I knew I had to get a career career, but could I do it in an area that wasn't so demanding and that would suck me dry, is what I

Alexandra Friedman: thought at the time.

Maria Eliades: Yeah.

Maria Eliades: Why Santa Fe?

Alexandra Friedman: Okay, this is such a funny of concept because intuitively it just came to me. I was walking down the street, and I gave myself my options. I was like, "I could move back to Seattle. I could move in with my brother," even though he didn't offer that. Or I could stay in Manhattan and look for a job, and those felt like the three options.

Maria Eliades: it's so funny that you say that because I did something kind of similar of I, I moved to Istanbul, Turkey a year out of graduating undergrad. I had been there exactly once. Now, I had lived vicariously through my father's stories growing up, so it wasn't so unfamiliar and I did a lot of reading before I went.

Maria Eliades: But, in a similar way, I could see myself, if I stayed in New York, because I'm from the area, probably would've gone into publishing,

Alexandra Friedman: Mm-hmm

Maria Eliades: which wouldn't have been the worst thing. Probably would've stayed here my whole life, but it was, this place was calling me.

Alexandra Friedman: Yeah. Oh, yeah. And was there any sort of, like, once you got there, did you continue getting and receiving these intuitive hits? How did you live in the moment there after arriving?

Maria Eliades: It felt like the place kept unfolding for me.

Alexandra Friedman: I really appreciate hearing that story. And what is it about our 20s, right? Like, where, I don't know if it's time, know if it's freedom. hopefully we do listen to those pings, and it's a privilege to be able to. And as I've gotten older, I don't know if you wrestled with this, I get the pings, but I feel sometimes more resistance. I don't know if it's time. I get scared sometimes about making the wrong choice, because I now see how many different, like, like you were saying, like, these different little twists that we can take that will completely change the trajectory of our lives. so sometimes I don't take the steps the way that I did in my 20s, and so I'm often channeling her, like, that age and that innocence, be able to take those risks.

Maria Eliades: I mean, I can say personally, that's what happened to me last year when I decided to leave the State Department.

Alexandra Friedman: Yeah

Maria Eliades: the conscious kept tapping and be like, "Hey, you, you see the writing on the wall. This is not going to be comfortable, but you know this is the right thing to do." And so, I thought about it enough to be like, "Okay, well, I'm gonna do this, and then take the next step, and then see where it, it leads me," which eventually involved moving back to New York.

Alexandra Friedman: Mm-hmm.

Maria Eliades: That gets me into actually this next question, because this whole episode, this is a two-parter. The second of the two parts is about talking about friendship and loneliness.

Alexandra Friedman: Yep

Maria Eliades: So I was wondering from your perspective and your experiences, what do you think is happening there? Why do you think people feel lonely if they have friends?

Alexandra Friedman: Oh, and

Alexandra Friedman: Now,

Alexandra Friedman: when I do do that, I feel a deeper sense of connection with myself, helps me feel a little bit,more fulfilled in that way, and I feel more in alignment, and therefore, more open to potentially creating more deeper connection with other people, because I'm not necessarily only seeking that out in them.

Maria Eliades: Yeah

Alexandra Friedman: to us necessarily financially.

Alexandra Friedman: That, you know, if you're gonna sit and meditate, by the time you're done with all these things, it's like 12 o'clock. You get going at work, right? So I honestly think that's a big thing, that people feel, lack of connection to themselves, like a deep, who am I? What makes me feel aligned? And can I get to that point enough to where I would even wanna share that with somebody else? Like, would I even know how to share that with somebody else? What is it?

Maria Eliades: Yeah, and you mentioned, I mean, people have these romantic relationships and they still don't feel fulfilled. What do you think is going on there?

Alexandra Friedman: Mm. You know, I feel like with the romantic relationships, of the biggest things that I hear, people really wanna feel seen and heard.

Alexandra Friedman: Like, it's a constant evolution. And I think that people have very high expectations on other people sometimes of wanting them to fill a lot of the needs that they'll never be able to fill. And I kinda lean more towards Esther Perel on this in the sense of we do need like a large community to help fulfill a lot of our needs, and it's like, what does this partnership offer me that does really fill my bucket, and is that enough to feel like I can get from other people what I'm not able to sustain in this relationship?

Alexandra Friedman: And then if I know how to actually speak up for my needs, is that person able to grow and lean in to help build that with me? And if so, I think that's where they start to feel a deeper connection, where they can ask for what they want, and that someone can lean in is like a super vulnerable thing to do.

Alexandra Friedman: And most people don't do it

Maria Eliades: Okay.

Alexandra Friedman: They wanna be on the phone and talk with them like half an hour to an hour a day.

Maria Eliades: Is that possible or realistic with adult life? I mean, it sounds like it taps back to, you know, what we had maybe in high school, what we had in college. What do you tell the client then of... What is possible with the thing that they want?

Alexandra Friedman: It, well, I think you really pinpointed it. It sounds like a younger version oftentimes to me of that person,

Maria Eliades: Mm-hmm.

Alexandra Friedman: and oftentimes we'll have to kinda dig deeper to figure out and explore. And I'm not always keen on necessarily going back in time, but oftentimes there's a need that wasn't fulfilled at a certain age, at some point, and there's a way for us to kinda fulfill that need,

Alexandra Friedman: to give ourselves.

Maria Eliades: Yeah.

Alexandra Friedman: if somebody is available for that.

Alexandra Friedman: And so it's, helping them, "Okay, that's good that you know what you desire. Now we're gonna explore maybe where that came from, just a little bit so that we can figure out how you can give that a little bit to yourself so that you're more available for a relationship, friendship that would be a little bit more consistent, but maybe not an everyday thing." 'Cause yeah, it's not necessarily realistic, and you're also setting someone up potentially to fail very quickly or feel let down if a day or two drops. You know, which it will. It's just not going to happen. So that's usually how I explore it with them,

Alexandra Friedman: what might be a more realistic way of engaging with somebody more consistently.

Alexandra Friedman: For example, voice notes daily. Some of my friends do that, but I don't have an expectation of when I'll hear back from them.

Maria Eliades: We talked a lot about asynchronous communication like that on the previous episode, so that's... I feel like in the States we don't have a culture yet around voice notes. I get most of my voice notes from my friends overseas.

Maria Eliades: But we don't expect to get a, a response back right away because sometimes those messages are long.

Alexandra Friedman: Right. and what's great about the overseas one is like actually because of the time difference, it's going to be a lull in time and maybe actually it works out perfectly.

Alexandra Friedman: I feel like when people want it to be that quick and a back and forth, it's really kinda setting themself up for something that won't be something that anybody can meet or very easy to disappoint them. And so we gotta set up some ways of like how can you share yourself with them in a way that's also good for them?

Alexandra Friedman: It

Maria Eliades: Could you take me back to the moment where you realized that you had something after you started doing these dinners?

Alexandra Friedman: Yes. Oh my goodness. So for people who are listening, I was

Alexandra Friedman: like, lived in Seattle until I was 18, and then I went to college. and then at 36, got a job at AWS, Amazon Web Services, and they, they move very quickly, and they're very excited to get you, at that time, moving back. I felt a lot of apprehension.

Alexandra Friedman: I was, like, avoiding Seattle. I felt like at first it was a failure to come back to where I came from, because my brothers had left, and that's what you did. so I, was like, "I'm gonna start fresh." I have maybe two friends from high school, one that I really talk to.

Alexandra Friedman: So I started hosting these dinner parties with quote, unquote, "strangers", people I'd meet, crosswalks, elevators, and people I knew but didn't really know. then, what started to happen was people wanted to come back to these dinner parties.

Alexandra Friedman: I started asking for referrals. People started hearing about it and messaging me. I started realizing I can't have the same people every time,

Maria Eliades: Mm.

Alexandra Friedman: 'Cause that's not allowing me to meet new people or other people meet new people. So, I started to ask for donations as well, and those came very easily. and then I realized while people are donating, I could maybe do ticketed events.

Alexandra Friedman: And all of this, it was no longer a dinner party.

Alexandra Friedman: What's so interesting is, I marketed it as like very programmed and connectivities, connection activities. I didn't advertise it as like you're gonna come here and just mingle and have prompts. I learned I had to really structure it, and I think that's what showed me I was really onto something, is that people were kind of sick of like just showing up and having to figure out how to create deeper connection.

Alexandra Friedman: They actually wanted to have some structure around it. And I think, as we all know from like Priya Parker stuff and whoever, like in a contained amount of time, people are fine with a lot of structure. In fact, they like it.

Maria Eliades: Hmm.

Alexandra Friedman: And that helped me realize I was onto something, that I was doing something different than what people were doing on Meetup or just these random things just to meet interesting people.

Alexandra Friedman: The irony of all of this is that I created it for myself, but in a host position. I often wasn't actually creating the deep connection like all the participants were. and so it created an interesting boundary for me where I then couldn't be friends with everyone, in fact didn't want to be.

Maria Eliades: That's really interesting. It does feel like for me, having lived in different places, that the U.S. really emphasizes extroversion

Alexandra Friedman: Yes

Maria Eliades: that's a reason why the introverts found it to be easier. I wonder what were the prompts that you found that really brought people out?

Alexandra Friedman: Oh yeah. Well, and also I wanna add in, in addition to telling you about some of the prompts, one of the things that I would promote is that, like everybody comes alone. That's also a really scary thing, and we don't do it as much in the States either. Prompts are really interesting, because how I looked at my programming and how I still look at the programming, and anybody listening, you can apply this kind of model to any sort of thing, maybe even it's a dinner party. I thought it was like an upside-down triangle,

Alexandra Friedman: How, how much can you do?

Maria Eliades: Right

Alexandra Friedman: This should replicate kind of what a healthy friendship should be in the real world outside of this,that you want to get closer over time. And it's okay if you don't share your deepest, darkest secrets at first. In fact, let it come a little bit naturally. In fact, don't share. That could be a red flag if you're doing that or receiving that too much. Or let me say an orange flag. Just something to be aware of. The prompts often would start out you know, more broad and then get a little bit more detailed, and they oftentimes, the parties and all of the events revolve around a theme.

Alexandra Friedman: So anything from platonic intimacy, to emotional intelligence, EQ, where people are so used to getting lists of what it means versus embodying it.

Alexandra Friedman: So we're helping them ask questions but also use their body in communicating too, no matter what the theme, and be playful as well. So like, that's how it always was. More broad, then get more detailed, and also the prompts were not just in our heads. We tried our best to make them with our bodies as well, and that could feel vulnerable but also, playful, and more tactile. Sometimes people would create things, too.

Maria Eliades: I love the, the sound of it because it's so symbolic, and it sounds like what you're doing also taps into the moment that we're in. Because when I think of masks, I think about things that we have masked and especially during the pandemic. I remember how difficult it was sometimes to read people because I couldn't see the lower half of their faces,

Alexandra Friedman: Yeah.

Maria Eliades: and to see who they were.

Maria Eliades: Yeah

Alexandra Friedman: yeah, for sure. Absolutely. And it's like, we're so used to these micro expressions that we're not even aware of, and then we interpret them incorrectly.

Maria Eliades: Right

Alexandra Friedman: I have a, you know, negative association with that topic, so I just assume they're feeling uncomfortable, right? you know, I'm projecting, and what does that look like? So that's also been really helpful too. ​

Maria Eliades: Our Pandora's Box is produced by Pentelic Productions, an independent podcast and strategic marketing company that I founded to help organizations and experts turn big ideas into thoughtful, compelling audio that connects with listeners like you.

Maria Eliades: Have a complex idea or a concept that you think would be great for a podcast, but don't know how to pull it off or don't have the staff to do it in-house?

Alexandra Friedman: Yeah, you know, we kinda talked a little bit about expectations, and that is a big thing. and I feel like that's a huge barrier. So many people have so much expectations on themselves that it's easy to put that on other people as well, so much to the point where they don't even reach out 'cause they feel like it might be a self-fulfilling prophecy, right?

Alexandra Friedman: That they so scared that they won't get what they want that they don't reach out at all. But I actually think that with the people I work with, a lot of the barriers happen where people are, not going to the right places to meet the right types of people that are great for them.

Maria Eliades: That's interesting. Tell me more.

Alexandra Friedman: But what I think is a barrier is that friendship or any relationship is not convenient. Your, it is not convenient, and it w- won't ever be. I'm sorry. So, you need to leave your neighborhood. You need to also lean into whatever makes you, you. The weirder, the better. I'm into ecstatic dance. I use this example a lot. I feel so at home with those people. I will go to ecstatic dance festivals. I'll go to ecstatic dance once or twice a week. and I will go to a lot of the events that they host. These people are so different than my other types of people that it's, like feel like by not hanging out with those crews even more, I'm holding myself back from my true colors.

Alexandra Friedman: They always feel like they're the one that's reaching out. They always feel like they're the one that, um, is initiating or making plans, or they just feel like someone didn't invite them to something they saw on social, and they feel left out, and they hold it against that person or that crew, and so they don't even see the yeses in front of them. I literally see people get approached by someone, like trying to engage with them, and they're, like not interested. Instead, I hear their same story over and over again of feeling, like left out, and this is a harder thing to unfold. It's not sometimes an easy switch, but it actually can be.

Alexandra Friedman: And I guess that's kind of multidimensional because we're focusing on the rejection, and sometimes they're focusing on the rejection of the true selves, you know? So that, and then, a few people will not leave their neighborhood, will not leave their house. You have to leave your comfort zone a little bit. This changes. People have kids, new parents, busy lives, but I just promise you, relationships at any time are not convenient, and it does mean stretching ourselves. And so I'd say those are the top three. Like, it's inconvenient, and that's okay 'cause it will really expand your life. Don't focus on the rejection, and, lean into who you are, like hard.

Alexandra Friedman: Go for the smaller pond. Go for the much, much, much smaller pond. It's really gonna benefit you. And when you follow those three things, plus some social skills, like that's the key. It's life changing. I feel like for me, when I find those people and I can lean into myself and I'm focusing on the yeses, I feel so freeing.

Maria Eliades: Yes is expansive, right? You're like, "I got a yes from this person. I'm going to this thing. I got this random invite to go to this person's book launch." You know? It's not that this person wasn't in my life, it's just we kind of fell out of touch.

Maria Eliades: You write to them, they're like, "Oh yeah, by the way, I'm doing this book launch." You're like, "Cool." You know?

Alexandra Friedman: Yeah

Maria Eliades: It's not that this person meant to leave me out, it's just we get busy

Alexandra Friedman: Yeah. it's also interesting, I think, that sometimes people unfortunately accidentally sabotage. maybe they get invited to things and they cancel a lot. But you never know what someone's going through.

Alexandra Friedman: At some point people will realize that and they just won't invite anymore. And, um, that may or may not be the true truth even if you aremaking your own things. So you wanna be true to your word to the best of your ability and follow through, and realizing that that's not convenient thing to do. You're gonna be tired.

Alexandra Friedman: Mm-hmm.

Maria Eliades: and a certain person, like you said, keeps saying no,

Alexandra Friedman: Mm-hmm.

Maria Eliades: Doesn't it feel natural to just stop inviting them? Because it looks like they're not interested.

Alexandra Friedman: Yeah. And of course, there's some nuance based on the history of the relationship a little bit, but in general, with a new connection, for me ... First of all, just hot second tip, 20%, I call them, like, anchors.

Maria Eliades: Okay.

Alexandra Friedman: 20% of the people are the social anchors actually creating the invites. 80% of, like, these other people are the receivers.

Maria Eliades: Hmm.

Alexandra Friedman: Everyone loves to be the receiver

Maria Eliades: Of course.

Alexandra Friedman: I feel like the most popular person ever. Like, keep these invites coming. wanna feel overwhelmed with my options. Thank you. I don't have to do the planning. You did all the coordinating.

Maria Eliades: Exactly.

Alexandra Friedman: up and

Maria Eliades: Mm-hmm

Alexandra Friedman: ugh, please. okay. Well, then I'm just allowing life to come at me versus sometimes co-creating with it.

Alexandra Friedman: I'll give them, like, sometimes two to three

Maria Eliades: Mm.

Alexandra Friedman: invites. And depending on the history, I might say, "Hey, like, super excited to see you. let me know when your schedule frees up."

Maria Eliades: Yeah

Alexandra Friedman: If it's a deeper friendship, I will check in like, "Hey," like I'll be sincere about it. If I don't know them too well, we just met at that book launch, I follow up and say, "I'm going to another book launch. You wanna meet up before and grab a coffee? I'm gonna go regardless."

Alexandra Friedman: But definitely by the third one, I won't do a big dramatic like, "I've invited you to three things now. You haven't said yes or you bailed. I'm not going to invite you to anything." I just move on to the people who are saying yes. I focus the energy there.

Maria Eliades: So you engage it with a spirit of generosity, it sounds like.

Alexandra Friedman: Yeah.

Alexandra Friedman: Also, like, sometimes I'll text someone and, this is happening today, I have a call with somebody. I texted her and I realized the last time we had texted was three and a half years ago.

Maria Eliades: Oof. So how did you... That can feel awkward right? If you haven't texted someone for any number of years, and then out of the blue, what made you text them? What made you feel okay with texting them?

Alexandra Friedman: I was like, I might spend some time in San Diego for the winter. So I was like, Who do I know there? So I pinged her and was like, "Can I chat with you just about neighborhoods and stuff? Like, can I get your advice?" And I realized, yeah, so we're not close friends,

Maria Eliades: Mm-hmm.

Alexandra Friedman: I'm just like, "Can you believe it's been three and a half years? That's wild. I'm so happy we re- reconnected. You down to chat this afternoon? I just levity.

Alexandra Friedman: Like, that's all you can do and if they're already okay to chat, then it's gonna be fine.

Alexandra Friedman: But if you're trying to reconnect with somebody, still levity.

Maria Eliades: When I'm texting them,I refuse, really I don't love like, "Hey, how are you?" Mm-mm.

Alexandra Friedman: For me personally, that feels super daunting.

Maria Eliades: Okay, so it's a big question to people. Where you get it, you're like, "Great, where do I start?"

Alexandra Friedman: See, like if things aren't going well, that's hard question. I gotta lie?

Alexandra Friedman: Offer me something, too. Like, "Hey, I was, went to this book launch, and I thought of you because this cover looks like you. Isn't that wild? By the way, curious how life is lighting you up these days? Drop me a line if you have a second, so curious."

Maria Eliades: That's a fair fear, right?

Alexandra Friedman: So fair. I've gotten over that by just like saying, "Oh my gosh," like calling people out of the blue.

Alexandra Friedman: I had like 15 minutes, I just wanted to check in and say hi," if they answer.

Alexandra Friedman: Or I send a voice note, like checking in for two minutes. I just want to take the pressure off them that it needs to be an hour and a half

Alexandra Friedman: by saying, "I also just like, I've had this quick drive and I'm thinking of you,"

Alexandra Friedman: And it's a quick connect. It's like better than nothing, right?

Maria Eliades: You know? That's, that's what it sounds like to me. and it's, it's also negotiation, like awareness, you know, being imaginative, being adaptive, to what friendship could be. it reminds me also of the, the listener question that I have, so I'll play that for you if you're up for it.

Alexandra Friedman: Love it.

Maria Eliades: Yeah? All right, let's go:

Beatrice: My name is Beatrice, and I live in Washington, DC, and I have a question about friendship. I feel like I am pretty educated now about what a healthy romantic relationship looks like. But I realize when dealing with my own friends, I don't always know what are the signs of a healthy relationship between friends.

Beatrice: How do I know a friendship for women in their twenties and early thirties is a healthy relationship, even with its lot of disagreements and small tensions? Thank you.

Alexandra Friedman: in general, a majority of the time the relationship should feel, your body should feel at ease around this person, at ease in planning with them, and enjoying time together. The truth is, there's more at stake in a romantic relationship a majority of the time that's gonna cause a little bit more of that potential, interdependence and conflict but in platonic relationships it's a beautiful path to practice deep intimacy, and in that comes a majority of the time it should feel. Now if you're noticing there's a lot of conflict coming up often, that's definitely a sign, and more so it's in the repair.

Alexandra Friedman: If the repair, is not really to a way that brings you closer over time, it would be a big sign for me. But majority of people don't know how to do repair, so that can be tricky, and you can teach people by demonstrating. And so for me, Beatrice, I look at it like, does my body a majority of the time feel good around this person? Does it also feel, like if something does come up, would I feel comfortable bringing it up?

Alexandra Friedman: If there's a lot of jealousy, those are some signs. If there's any sort of belittling, any sort of, misbehavior of undermining, that's an instant out for me from the beginning. So wanna look out for these things when you're first making friends with somebody. How does my body feel? Are they celebrating me? Are they curious? Am I getting to know them slowly over time, it's getting deeper?

Alexandra Friedman: Is there a level of trust? Can I trust them? I feel safe sharing stuff with them? And are they able to be there for me when I need them? And if, something does go down, are we able to repair?

Maria Eliades: That repair piece, huge.

Alexandra Friedman: It's so big. Have you ever, Maria, had an experience a friend, like that you had to repair, big or small?

Alexandra Friedman: Yeah.

Maria Eliades: With one of them, I reached out and said, "Hey, you know, I know this can't be the way it always was. Let me know, like, what do you wanna do?

Maria Eliades: Let me know. You don't have to tell me right now." In another instance, there was someone who, had held back telling me in the moment that something I was doing in different instances had bothered them, and they let it build up, and then they told me in an email,

Alexandra Friedman: Mm-hmm.

Maria Eliades: was so hurtful because I thought, "Okay, yes, maybe it would've been a little awkward at the time to tell me, but I would've much preferred you tell me in the moment, 'Hey," like, "I need you to stop doing that," you know, "This bothers me.

Maria Eliades: I feel this way when you do this.'" And I would've been like, "Okay.

Alexandra Friedman: Yeah

Maria Eliades: I'm aware. Now I know. You've told me that this bothers you. Now I can do something about it. I can't if you can't tell me."

Alexandra Friedman: And you can also do it with levity, you know, sometimes in a fun way that doesn't have to be a big deal. It's also in how we receive that feedback, right?

Alexandra Friedman: I think people might have been scared to share stuff with me in the past because I think I'm known as very sensitive.

Alexandra Friedman: But I think now I would be a lot more light in receiving that. Sometimes like you're having it happen and, realizing what we want in the future, and how maybe we need to demonstrate that ourselves. Yeah the email's tough.

Alexandra Friedman: Hearing it in the email, how... Yeah

Maria Eliades: Yeah. You know, I think it was a lot of feelings, a lot of emotions. I think she was probably scared, and so that's the way she ended up getting it out. And yeah, I understand why she did it. It really hurt.

Alexandra Friedman: Yeah. Did you maintain friendships with either of these people?

Alexandra Friedman: Mm-hmm.

Maria Eliades: He, he ghosted me after that.

Alexandra Friedman: Yeah. Aw. That ghosting's so hard.

Maria Eliades: Yeah.

Alexandra Friedman: I really appreciate hearing that and well, I appreciate you sharing this, it sounds...

Alexandra Friedman: I've had my experiences of breakups as well. And I've also had the opposite where we bring up the repair and it's brought us closer.

Maria Eliades: That's what usually happens in romantic relationships when the relationship is meant to last longer than a season. I think as you were saying, we learn a lot more about romantic relationships and how to handle things than necessarily friendships. And I feel like my relational skills, I developed certain ones in friendships.

Maria Eliades: I developed other ones that were a lot more intimate in romantic relationships, like the repair, like bringing something up and learning how to bring it up in a way that could give the person space to respond to it.

Alexandra Friedman: Yeah. There's only one way to get practice, right? And that's to do it.

Maria Eliades: Yeah, and sometimes mess up, and that's what it is.

Alexandra Friedman: let them know.

Alexandra Friedman: And, funny enough, it's, like, been really helpful. One resource I'd like to give, the listeners, and, Beatrice, I don't know the situation you're dealing with, but,

Alexandra Friedman: Brene Brown, had an interview.

Alexandra Friedman: I'll give you the link. "Dance With Anger." It's one of the most profound podcasts on

Alexandra Friedman: how to actually apologize. I had never officially learned how to apologize, ever. This was a conflict resolution skill that was life-changing for me. And when I did have conflict with friends, when there was something that bothered them, I learned I just apologize. State what I did wrong, and then how I will make sure not to do it in the future.

Alexandra Friedman: And no defending.

Alexandra Friedman: The whole point is to maintain the relationship, period. At another point I can bring up, "Hey, remember when we had..." At another time. But this was a life-changing skill for me, so I wanna point that, um, that podcast out, and I can give you source. but I so appreciate Beatrice's question and, can relate, and I hope, that some of these were helpful.

Maria Eliades: I'm sorry.

Alexandra Friedman: It's okay, I'm actually okay with it.

Maria Eliades: Okay.

Alexandra Friedman: Weren't that close, but it was just jarring.

Maria Eliades: Yeah. They can be. Really, in a surprising way. You know, we expect romantic breakups to be hard, but we don't expect how much those friendship breakups can really shake us to our core and have us question sometimes who we are or how we are with other people.

Alexandra Friedman: Yeah. What's interesting is like it feels like there's more access to more friend potentials than romantic potentials,

Alexandra Friedman: at least to me, but that's not true either.

Maria Eliades: No, no, we're not gonna be friends with everyone right? Not like close friends. It's, it's just not possible. We're not gonna be everyone's cup of tea.

Alexandra Friedman: I think about this a lot because, I'm 44, I don't have children. I am in a relationship, but often was single in and out, in and out kind of thing. and, still consider myself very maternal in other ways. I love spending time with my friends who have kids, but I certainly don't see them nearly as much because it demands that I go to them. But sometimes when I go to them, they're like hooking me up with great dinners. Like, I love, if their babies are important to them, they're important to me. I know a lot of people don't feel the same way.

Alexandra Friedman: I got to know them as a crazy college party friend. I got to know them in their like wild dating years, and now I get to see them as a loving partner and, then when they have kids. Nothing makes me more emotional than seeing somebody, like get married to someone they absolutely adore or have a family that they've been really trying to have through years of struggle. I get to see versions of them

Alexandra Friedman: that I didn't even know was possible, and I get to decide how I want to interact with them, and in the meantime, that might mean building my friendships other places. So I actually believe we can maintain those, but I think I'm like a poly friend type of person. I have a lot of deep friendships at different times, and I've just kind of accepted that as a way of surviving in the world that all of our lives are changing at different speeds and at different times. So I think maintain the friendships, and try looking at it like you get different versions of one person, so you actually get multiple friendships in one.

Alexandra Friedman: Oh yeah. I liked the do part. Well, the big thing that comes to me, and this is something I'm really needing to practice as well, really regulating yourself more often, especially before you're social. Just take a few minutes, whether that's at home or in your car, just take some breaths, get grounded so you can show up and be as present as possible in the dynamics with people so you can actually know how does my body feel around these people.

Alexandra Friedman: You absolutely have to go and put yourself in rooms with people more often, and learn how to read people, learn how to be read, learn how to make mistakes and how to repair instead of just going with the flows of life and getting so busy that we're not able to connect in person. So those are my two recommendations. You somatically balance yourself right before you hang, initiate, get out in the world and actually practice the social skills.

Maria Eliades: I love that you latched onto the do. I had a feeling that would be a nice opener for you to answer.

Maria Eliades: Thank you so much, Alex, for today. This was a great conversation. I think that people are really gonna benefit from it.

Alexandra Friedman: Absolutely, and thank you so much for the opportunity. Really love everything you're doing and bringing to the world, so thanks for having me.

Maria Eliades: My pleasure. My ​

Maria Eliades: thank you again, Alex, for coming on to _Our Pandora's Box_. I think my takeaways from today are in how I send text messages to people I haven't spoken to in a while.

Maria Eliades: I really thought that what Alex said about reaching out with something concrete and lighter made a lot of sense, because sometimes I am just as guilty of messaging people and saying, "Hey, how are you?" So I can see how that can come off as maybe a little much now. So I'm taking that one with me, and I'm definitely going to apply it.

Maria Eliades: And I really appreciate in this episode how generous Alex was and how understanding she was as well.

Maria Eliades: _Our Pandora's Box_ was produced, hosted, created, and edited by yours truly, Maria Eliades. Remember to stay hopeful and stay curious. I'll see you soon on the next Our Pandora's Box.