Northern Ontario is big—REALLY big—which can be a challenge for anyone trying to get from one city to another or to escape into our great wilderness. Roads, air, and rail networks are critical to the success of our tourism industry (and economy at large) and that’s why Destination Northern Ontario is making it a priority.

Ian Wood is a director on Destination Northern Ontario's board of directors and the chair of its ad hoc committee on transportation issues. In this episode, he lays out the current state of our transportation network, what should be done to improve them for visitors, and what YOU can do to help.

00:00 Introduction

01:18 Why Transportation is Key For Northern Ontario Tourism

03:19 Formation and Goal of the Transportation Issues Committee

05:32 Road Transportation in Northern Ontario

10:38 Air Transportation Post-COVID

14:40 Rail Transportation in Northern Ontario

17:36 Opportunities for Air Transportation

21:49 Opportunities for Rail Transportation

26:42 Opportunities for Road Transportation

30:10 How DNO is Advancing Improvements

31:36 Call to Action for Tourism Operators

32:35 The Top Priority

34:16 Postscript: New Air Routes!

Mentioned resources

1. Northern Ontario Transportation Challenges & Solutions destinationnorthernontario.ca/sites/default/files/2025-10/MC_Transportation%20Challenges%20and%20Solutions_04-14-25_LowRes.pdf

About the Destination: Northern Ontario podcast

This is a series for tourism business operators in rugged and beautiful Northern Ontario. Whether you're just starting out, or you've got years under your belt, this podcast will make sure you're well equipped for the journey. If you’re not an operator yet, but plan to buy a tourism business in the north, then check out Season 1 for case studies and expert guidance.

Learn more about tourism investment opportunities in Northern Ontario at invest.destination northernontario.ca. Follow DNO on Twitter/X, Facebook, Instagram, or LinkedIn.

The podcast is hosted by Michelle Samson and produced by Storied Places Media.

Those kinds of projects done thoughtfully and consistently can really

2

move the needle for us in the north.

3

Michelle Samson: Welcome to the

Destination Northern Ontario podcast.

4

This is a series for tourism

business operators here in the

5

rugged and beautiful North.

6

Whether you're just starting out,

or you've got years under your belt,

7

this podcast will make sure you're

well equipped for the journey.

8

I'm your host, Michelle Samson.

9

Northern Ontario is big, really big,

which can be a challenge when you're

10

trying to get from one city to another

or to escape into its great wilderness.

11

The state of the North's

transportation, from roads to air to

12

rail, is critical for its economy,

especially for the tourism industry.

13

That's why Destination Northern

Ontario is making it a priority.

14

Ian Wood is a director on Destination

Northern Ontario's board of

15

directors and the chair of its ad hoc

committee on transportation issues.

16

In this episode, we chat about the

current state of the road, air, and rail

17

networks; what could and should be done to

improve them; and what you can do to help.

18

To kick things off, I asked Ian to

summarize why transportation is so

19

important to tourism in Northern

Ontario and why there's a need to put

20

transportation in the spotlight right now.

21

Ian Wood: So transportation really is

foundational to the work in tourism.

22

It's not a direct responsibility of

Destination Northern Ontario, but

23

as most people would know, Northern

Ontario is an extremely large place.

24

Which means that our visitors,

our tourists, often have to

25

travel a long way to get here.

26

And once they're here, if they really

want to see some of the region, they

27

need to travel a lot within the region.

28

Transportation for tourism

overall is important as well.

29

We don't have Northern Ontario numbers,

but we do know that in Ontario as a whole

30

in 2024, the expenditures on tourism were

almost $5 billion, which is almost 17% of

31

the tourism spend is on transportation.

32

So it's not insignificant.

33

And in Northern Ontario, it, you know,

it's more important, because of the size

34

of the region that we're dealing with.

35

In terms of why now?

36

So, let me just say that what we're

talking about is an initiative

37

of the Destination Northern

Ontario Board of Directors.

38

Coming out of COVID, we were

spending a lot of time talking

39

about some of the issues around

transportation, and really, it was air

40

transportation that was the key for us.

41

And, I can even take you to an event.

42

Two years ago now, Thunder Bay was

hosting the Canada Winter Games,

43

or Canada Games Winter Edition.

44

And they actually had some of the

sporting bodies and some of the

45

events canceled simply because people

couldn't get there from across Canada,

46

Michelle Samson: Mmm.

47

Ian Wood: Or it was too

expensive for them to get there.

48

So, sports like weightlifting, even

downhill skiing, which for Thunder Bay

49

is a great sport, the organizing bodies

just said, we can't make this work.

50

We can't get our people in and out.

51

There's not enough flights,

not enough seats, and what is

52

available is too expensive.

53

Michelle Samson: Hmm.

54

Ian Wood: And that was a bit

of a wake up call for us.

55

We spend a lot of time trying to

promote our region, and hosting major

56

events like that is really critical

to our success and our growth.

57

And when you go to all the effort to stage

something like that and then have parts

58

of it be unsuccessful simply because of

transportation, we decided as a board

59

that we wanted to take a little bit

deeper dive into what was going on here.

60

And, we created an ad hoc

committee of board members.

61

I agreed to chair that

committee at that point.

62

So about year and a half,

almost 24 months ago now.

63

Michelle Samson: Hmm.

64

Yeah.

65

So tell me more about that committee

and what it hopes to accomplish.

66

Ian Wood: So well, we got together.

67

We decided that air transportation

would be our first focus, and it

68

was for our first six, eight months.

69

And then, uh, a little bit over a year

ago, we decided to add in road and

70

rail issues, to look at those as well.

71

But we started by talking to folks

specifically involved in aviation.

72

So we talked to airport managers and

municipalities across Northern Ontario.

73

We talked to other organizations that

we thought might be of interest as well.

74

So like chambers of commerce and municipal

associations, those types of things.

75

And we really wanted to get a sense of

what was going on, and we did do that.

76

We staged a panel discussion at our

Tourism Summit a year ago in North Bay.

77

And that was very

enlightening and positive.

78

And coming out of that discussion,

we started to feel like we might have

79

something to say and to communicate,

both within the industry, and to other

80

organizations, and then specifically

to governments at all three levels.

81

So over the course of 2025, we've

tried to pull together the information,

82

put our thoughts together, and

we produced a document, an issues

83

paper, that we can circulate to

bring a tourism perspective to others

84

involved in the transportation area.

85

Michelle Samson: Yeah, so we'll link

that document in the show notes, but this

86

episode is really gonna be covering a

lot of the highlights from that report.

87

We're gonna get into what you heard

from these stakeholders around the

88

issues and challenges, but also some

solutions and opportunities as well.

89

Maybe let's take a step back and

do a lay of the land to start.

90

We know obviously Northern Ontario

has roads and air and rail, but

91

maybe we can get into a little

bit more detail than that.

92

Ian Wood: Let me go back to talking

about the size again, because I think

93

even for people who live and work and

have grown up in Northern Ontario, we

94

sometimes forget about the size, and

how big it is and how far things are.

95

So, our area, RTO 13, they call

us, the Northern Ontario tourism

96

region, it stretches from the border

with Renfrew County, which is near

97

Mattawa on the east side and all

the way to the Manitoba border.

98

Right along that route is Highway 17.

99

So Highway 17 runs from border

to border, east-west across our

100

region, and that's 1,750 kilometers.

101

Which is a long, long way.

102

Just to reinforce how far that is, if

you go the other way, so if you start

103

on the eastern border and you go east,

1,750 kilometers takes you to Halifax.

104

Michelle Samson: Yep,

I've done that drive.

105

Ian Wood: Yeah, me too.

106

Michelle Samson: It's long!

107

Ian Wood: Yeah, exactly.

108

And if you go the other way

from the Manitoba border going

109

west, you're into Golden, BC.

110

Michelle Samson: Wow.

111

Ian Wood: So you're actually across the

Alberta border and into British Columbia.

112

So that's the dimension of

Northern Ontario, and why

113

transportation is so important.

114

So, part of our fact finding or

research on this area, we came across

115

the statistic that 94% of visitors

to Northern Ontario arrived by road.

116

Michelle Samson: Wow.

117

Huge majority.

118

Ian Wood: Yeah, although we, like I

say, we were triggered by concerns

119

around air, certainly, you know,

the meat of the issues are in roads.

120

There's 11,000 kilometers of provincial

highways within Northern Ontario.

121

Things are a long way apart.

122

And, you know, when it comes to

roads, it's Trans Canada Highway,

123

but not all of it is four lane.

124

In fact, much less of it is four

lane than in other jurisdictions.

125

So, those are the things that when

you start looking at it in depth,

126

you start seeing, sort of, what the

challenges are, but also how things

127

could be improved over time to make

it more efficient, safer, and more

128

attractive, quite frankly, for visitors.

129

Michelle Samson: That's

a lot to maintain too.

130

Ian Wood: It is a lot to maintain.

131

Maintain and renew, right?

132

Michelle Samson: Mm-hmm.

133

Ian Wood: You know, highways get old

and infrastructure gets old, but it's

134

important to keep it in the forefront.

135

The Trans Canada Highway is critical

infrastructure to the entire country.

136

Coming up on 10 years ago, some folks

might remember, we had a brand new bridge

137

in Nipigon, Ontario that had a failure.

138

Michelle Samson: Hmm.

139

Ian Wood: It was quite a new bridge

and it failed in the winter cold,

140

which was completely unexpected.

141

But when that bridge cut off, that's the

only way to cross this country by road.

142

Michelle Samson: Hmm.

143

Ian Wood: A single crossing at that time.

144

It's twinned now, but it's still the same,

you know, those two bridges are a hundred

145

feet apart crossing the Nipigon River.

146

And you know, it shows you

how vital that connection is.

147

1300 trucks a day use that to cross.

148

And those are trucks that are

moving long journeys East-West.

149

It's worth mentioning again, the lack of

four lane highway or, uh, cross sections.

150

Even the Scandinavian solution, they call

it a 2+1, which is essentially you have

151

three lanes, and the passing lane switches

back and forth every 10 kilometers or so.

152

That is coming, apparently,

to Northern Ontario.

153

So we're anxious to see that, but all of

these things take a long time in arriving.

154

And so I think it's worth us continually

talking about the need, because hopefully

155

that leads to changes in the future.

156

Visitor services along our highway,

if 94% of our visitors are coming by

157

road, and we look in other jurisdictions

like Quebec and Michigan and they have

158

these, or even Southern Ontario, they

have these great wayside services,

159

you know, and it's got a restaurant,

really nice washrooms and well kept.

160

Michelle Samson: The ONroutes.

161

Ian Wood: The ONroutes, yeah.

162

But in Quebec, ou know, they have

proper picnic facilities, and

163

washrooms and places for people to

have a snooze, and Michigan the same.

164

And in Northern Ontario,

we just don't have that.

165

And some of them that we did

have, you know, have been

166

closed in the last 10 years.

167

Michelle Samson: Hmm.

168

Ian Wood: So that's something

again that we don't see enough of.

169

And then the last real concern is

that we still have gaps in mobile

170

service, even on our major highways.

171

And people who travel tell

me that the gaps are larger

172

in terms of high speed data.

173

So, you know, even when you can get

a phone call through, you know, you

174

can't necessarily do your business.

175

So there's lots of room

for improvement there too.

176

Michelle Samson: Mm-hmm.

177

Yeah.

178

So how about air?

179

Ian Wood: So as I said earlier,

coming outta COVID, air, was, the

180

one that really created the sore

thumb that attracted our attention.

181

I mean, everybody knows that in COVID,

air travel basically, stopped, right?

182

Flights were cut and people

laid off in the airline

183

industry, et cetera, et cetera.

184

But coming out of COVID, there

was sort of an expectation

185

that we would be back to 2019.

186

And you know, in the beginning they

said, oh, well, in a year we'll

187

be back to where we were in 2019.

188

And then they said, oh, maybe

it'll take a little longer.

189

Maybe it'll take two or three years.

190

And the reality is, in Northern Ontario,

we're still nowhere near where we

191

were in 2019 in terms of the level of

passenger air service across the north.

192

There's fewer flights.

193

And in some areas, like Kenora and Dryden,

for example, they lost their air service

194

completely, their scheduled air service.

195

It doesn't exist.

196

Although there's a new one coming

and we can talk about that.

197

But it continues on, I mean, North Bay

198

last Air Canada connector flight to

Toronto, a service that's been in

199

place, they tell me, since the 1940s.

200

Michelle Samson: Wow.

201

Ian Wood: And it's very difficult

to maintain tourism connections,

202

business connections, general economic

development connections when you

203

don't have scheduled air service

and the easy connection to Toronto.

204

And we're lucky, in some ways,

because in Ontario we have Canada's

205

busiest airport and we have a

fantastic global gateway in Pearson.

206

But if you're not connected to

it, then it doesn't help you.

207

One of the things we did in the spring

of this year was sent a little note to

208

our provincial and federal ministers.

209

And we talked about places like Saskatoon

and Quebec City having better connections

210

into Toronto, into Pearson, than the

major cities in Northern Ontario.

211

It seems to me that the province should

maybe be thinking about that, right?

212

Michelle Samson: Yeah.

213

Ian Wood: From an economic

development, from a tourism, from

214

a business development and growth

perspective, it's so important for us.

215

Michelle Samson: Yeah.

216

Ian Wood: I mean, there are

economic reasons for this.

217

There were pilot shortages coming out

of COVID, so airlines really took the

218

opportunity to upgrade their fleets.

219

And they put on larger aircraft.

220

Larger aircraft don't necessarily

make economic sense for the

221

smaller centers that we are.

222

And so then that ends up

with reduced frequency.

223

There's no longer a first of

the morning flight into Pearson,

224

which connects you to the world.

225

So businesses, which in some ways are the

lifeblood of keeping these air connections

226

viable, they start choosing to drive

or other methods of transportation.

227

And then that reduces the opportunities

for both leisure outbound travel,

228

but also visitors coming in.

229

Michelle Samson: Yeah.

230

Ian Wood: It's a bit of a vicious

circle, and, you know, in Canada,

231

airports across Canada deliver positive

revenue to the federal government.

232

Like real money, it's a

revenue stream for them.

233

Which is different than

many other countries.

234

Many other countries see their airports

as a public service that needs to

235

be invested in by the government.

236

That's true in the States.

237

They subsidize airports.

238

They subsidize routes as essential routes.

239

We don't have that in Canada, so it

makes a challenging economic situation

240

for the managers of airports and their

municipal owners, where, you know,

241

they have to charge more to the fewer

passengers that use their services, which

242

ends up increasing fees and airfares.

243

And again, it's a negative

reinforcement cycle.

244

Michelle Samson: Right.

245

Yeah, we'll talk more about air but I just

wanna get that lay of the land of rail.

246

There's less going on there, but

there are some things to say.

247

Ian Wood: Yeah.

248

I mean, and railways are foundational

to Northern Ontario, right?

249

I mean, the two national mainlines

run right across the north.

250

Via continues to provide a service

on, uh, using the Canadian.

251

Although I don't wanna sound

negative about a tourism product,

252

but it really is basically only

a tourism product at this point.

253

It doesn't provide a lot in terms

of inter-city transportation.

254

Michelle Samson: Hmm.

255

Ian Wood: But you know, in the summertime

there's paddlers, even on that national

256

train, there are paddlers loading their

canoes on to get off in northwestern

257

Ontario and explore, which is great.

258

I mean, that is part of our

tourism economy, but it only

259

runs a couple of times a week.

260

And so the daily aspect

of it has gone long ago.

261

And it's often not on time because

takes precedent with the railways.

262

And that's the structure that the

government has set up with Via.

263

So, in terms of infrastructure, we've

got first class infrastructure there.

264

But in terms of passenger rail,

it's not really fully utilized and

265

there's a lot more potential for that.

266

The Province of Ontario has an interest

in rail in Northern Ontario and are

267

in the midst of bringing back the

Ontario Northlander Train, which

268

will connect Toronto and Cochrane.

269

Great.

270

I mean, I think that should be

271

getting closer and closer to that.

272

The schedule and the equipment are really

designed around a local population.

273

So this is really, I'd call it a pilot.

274

I mean, it's been out of service

for a good number of years,

275

and they're bringing it back.

276

So we're excited to see it come back.

277

We're really interested in the

potential for tourism in the future.

278

I don't know that the pilot

will even have the capacity.

279

It's just 130 seats going

each way on a daily basis.

280

But hopefully it'll prove successful.

281

and we'll look at potential

of future services that can

282

better the tourism potential.

283

I mean, rail, it's historic, as I said.

284

It's environmentally superior

to road traffic, and there

285

really isn't any experience that

duplicates how close you are.

286

I mean, we try to market our

wilderness, and that train right of

287

way is, I don't know, 40 feet across.

288

And, you know, you're often traveling

right next to lakes and through,

289

actually through the forest.

290

I took the train up to Kenora

from Sudbury, last summer.

291

It's really a great experience and one

that I think is eminently marketable.

292

I, you know, there's things like the

Rocky Mountaineer and other parts of

293

Canada, and there's a tourist train up

near Saguenay, Quebec City, and, I mean,

294

we have the Agawa canyon train, I don't

wanna minimize that . But there are many

295

more opportunities I think, for those

kinds of experiences in Northern Ontario.

296

Michelle Samson: Great.

297

So, you know, we've kind of given

the doom and gloom, but we wanna

298

bring the bright side here and

really wanna dig into all of those.

299

Where do you wanna start?

300

Road, air, or rail?

301

Ian Wood: Let's start with air.

302

We have done a fair amount of work

on a lot of conversations around air.

303

And there is no question that from an

economic development and from a high level

304

business perspective that air connections

are really important, especially,

305

as I say when, Southern Ontario has

one of the world's best airports.

306

Making that last mile connection

into Northern Ontario is

307

really important for us.

308

We think that quite frankly, the

federal government needs to take

309

another look at how medium sized

airports and we'll call 'em that for

310

our region, how they're funded and how

they can encourage more air services

311

and passenger services in this area.

312

It's not just leaving

it up to the airlines.

313

Of course, airlines will make an

economic business decision and

314

we can't fault them for that.

315

But this is an area where it's

important that from a community and

316

from an overall economic development

perspective, that they challenge this

317

and become innovative in terms of how

they can address that and make things

318

a little more cost effective, both for

the passengers and for the airlines.

319

That's on the federal side, and

that's not even just Northern Ontario.

320

That's right across Canada.

321

All the medium sized cities

have the same challenge.

322

Michelle Samson: Yep.

323

Ian Wood: From the provincial side.

324

It's interesting.

325

So the province, at first blush,

have said to us that aviation is

326

federal responsibility, that we don't

really have a responsibility there.

327

I guess, you know, as a first go, maybe

that's fine, but I I talked about the

328

size of Northern Ontario and the fact

remains that people in Saskatoon have

329

more options to get to Toronto and

back by air than people in Sudbury

330

or Timmons or Sault Saint Marie.

331

And to me, there's a policy piece

here that I think that the provincial

332

government could take a closer look at.

333

Again, because of the economic

development importance of air transport.

334

There are some new initiatives that

have taken place or are taking place.

335

A lot of these are being developed

by municipalities and airports

336

in partnership with airlines.

337

Michelle Samson: Hmm.

338

Ian Wood: So, and they

call them "shared risk."

339

So basically, it varies, but in

general, a municipality or an airport

340

is putting up a pool of money which the

airline can use to defray empty seats.

341

Michelle Samson: Hmm.

342

Ian Wood: You know, we'll lay on

an aircraft to fly back and forth

343

to Toronto or in Sudbury case, we

had a direct flight into Calgary

344

from June to October of this year.

345

And the negotiation happens that

the airline says they need a 65%

346

capacity or whatever to be met in

order to make this viable for them.

347

And a type of financial guarantee

is made so that when the seat

348

sales fall short of that capacity

that the difference is made up.

349

So that's the shared risk aspect of it.

350

And, I mean, again, I understand where

this is coming from, from a business

351

perspective, but municipalities

and airports don't have the kind of

352

financial resources that provinces

and federal governments do.

353

Michelle Samson: Yeah.

354

Ian Wood: And I think that this is a

place that the province could look at.

355

What does that mean?

356

Can we get involved with this?

357

What does it mean for us from an economic

development perspective, from a visitor

358

perspective, from a tourism growth

perspective, and can we make the economic

359

case that we should be involved in that?

360

And I think that's a serious conversation

that the province could have.

361

Michelle Samson: Yeah, definitely.

362

Ian Wood: Yeah, so that, from an air

perspective, that's where we're at.

363

And there are multiple folks, I talked

about Chambers of Commerce, there are

364

associations of airports and they are

singing the same song and working at that.

365

I think our role is just to say, we

think this is something worth looking at.

366

And from a tourism perspective, we see

the benefit for us and for our industry.

367

Michelle Samson: Absolutely.

368

All right.

369

Where do you wanna go next for

opportunities, road or rail?

370

Ian Wood: Well, let's talk

about, the rail lines.

371

So rail, the lines were

built by the railways.

372

They're owned by the railways.

373

It's their game.

374

But they are regulated by

the federal government.

375

And I think that there has to be room

for a passenger rail conversation other

376

than the Quebec City to Windsor corridor.

377

I think that we need our government

representatives to sit down and say

378

there are many advantages to rail

passenger traffic, and and we need to

379

figure out how we can make this work.

380

And reset the relationship.

381

It's a fascinating industry,

I don't pretend to understand

382

the economics of it all.

383

Freight trains get longer and longer

and longer, you know, a mile and

384

a half is not unusual anymore.

385

And where passengers can fit in,

I think there just needs serious

386

people on both sides of the

table having good discussions.

387

Via is a federal corporation.

388

I think they will do what they're told.

389

So it would be good if they were

asked to take things a little

390

more seriously outside of that

Windsor to Quebec City corridor.

391

I know we're engaged in looking at

a high speed train in that area, and

392

that's great, but I think that there

are real opportunities in the rest of

393

the country, and in our area, region

specifically that they could explore.

394

And I think if the relationship is

reset, if there's opportunities for

395

private sector operators like Rocky

Mountain Rail to look for opportunities

396

in Northern Ontario, I think there

could be really good, valid rail

397

excursion opportunities that would

be attractive to bringing in tourism.

398

And those kind of tours, people will

come from a very long way for rail tours.

399

I said I took the train from Sudbury

to Kenora last summer, and most of

400

the people in the dining car were not

from Canada, because they're doing the

401

Toronto-Vancouver train that's been

on their bucket list for 10 years.

402

So they're flying from Germany, from

Australia, you know, et cetera, et cetera.

403

And those are high yield, high value

visitors that we could all benefit from.

404

And I think the facilitation of the

railways to help with that would be great.

405

We're gonna talk about the federal

government's nation building

406

projects, for roads as well.

407

But I think that if they were to make

a move to twin the rail lines, huge

408

benefit for us in tourism, but also I

think for freight and for moving some

409

of the freight off of highways and

into something that's efficient and

410

safe and net positive for all of us.

411

Michelle Samson: So just

because I mean, rail is so

412

romantic in so many ways, right?

413

I guess like step one would be frequency

and reliability, and then once that

414

piece is kind of settled then you

kind of get into those excursions and

415

really building up the experience?

416

Ian Wood: I mean, yes and no, I think

they're almost two separate tracks.

417

Bad pun, but anyway, but if I use Rocky

Mountain Rail, and they started from

418

Calgary to Vancouver because there was

no passenger train there anymore, it had

419

been moved to the Edmonton-Jasper side.

420

That's where Via runs.

421

But it was the part of the old

Canadian route on Canadian Pacific

422

that was seen as, you know,

incredibly scenic and that's why Rocky

423

Mountain Rail tours started there.

424

But they are now running two,

two or three trains out of

425

Vancouver on different routes.

426

They're running two trains in the States

now, they've expanded into the States.

427

They're choosing sections of track

that have an anchor community at

428

either end and are very scenic.

429

Almost like a cruise boat on rails.

430

If the space were found on the rails, that

could almost happen in very short order.

431

Getting the priority for passengers to

run them on time, and efficiently and

432

that kind of thing is another question.

433

It will be very interesting to see how

successful the Ontario Northlander is,

434

because a portion of it is on tracks that

are fully controlled by Ontario Northland,

435

but a portion of it is also on CN tracks.

436

so it'll be interesting to see as

they implement that, because that's at

437

the forefront of their planning too.

438

We wanna make this an efficient service.

439

We wanna make it a viable

alternative to driving.

440

And so, that's a task that

they've set for themselves.

441

And as they bring that forward, it'll

be good to see how that works out

442

and where they can go from there.

443

But I think the real, as I said

earlier, Via is a, essentially,

444

a creature of the government.

445

And I think if the government tasks them

with doing something that they'll respond.

446

But it's been a long time since

anything like that has happened.

447

Michelle Samson: All right,

let's move on to road.

448

Ian Wood: Yeah.

449

So the roads, I think are, in some ways,

simpler in what needs to be done, but in

450

other ways, you know, much more complex.

451

I talked about this, Highway 17 itself,

across our region is 1,750 kilometers.

452

That's a long, long way if you're

going to figure out how to twin it,

453

how to create those four lane sections.

454

Having said that though, I know the

drive to the Maritimes, and I can

455

tell you that I started doing regular

456

25 years ago because my daughter

started at Dalhousie at that point.

457

In In those 25 years, from where I turned

off of the four lanes at Rivière-du-Loup,

458

all the way through to the Cobequid

Pass, the investment that's happened

459

from those provinces, but largely by

the federal government helping those

460

provinces, make those four lanes happen,

I mean, it's almost, it pretty much will

461

be four laned within the next year or two.

462

And it will be completely four laned

all the way from the main highway in

463

Quebec, all the way through to Halifax

and basically all the way to Cape Breton.

464

That project was incredible.

465

It's daunting, but course of time, it's

happened, and I think declaring it and

466

saying, we're gonna get there and we're

gonna provide consistent funding and get

467

at it year on year, eventually it happens.

468

So I think that really is the key for

the main 11 and 17 in Northern Ontario.

469

Now the province is committed to this

2+1 system going north outta North

470

Bay up towards, I'm trying to think of

where it's, well, New Liskeard anyway,

471

I think is where the first target is.

472

So that'll be great to see.

473

I've driven in northern Sweden,

I've seen this in action.

474

And it's far less expensive to

build, but the results in Sweden

475

have been dramatic in terms of the

reduction in terms of accidents.

476

And that's really from a tourism

perspective, we want people to be able to

477

feel comfortable and not be intimidated by

the distances and feel safe on our roads.

478

That's what we're looking for.

479

And the people who live here

I know are feeling the same.

480

But we think that those kinds

of projects done thoughtfully

481

and consistently can really move

the needle for us in the north.

482

The other thing we would really recommend

and would love to see is that some serious

483

thought be given to visitor services

when they're planning these projects.

484

Think about where that stopping point

is going to be, the facilities that

485

you need for truckers and for the

average person to, again, to feel

486

comfortable and safe on our highways.

487

And that's what we're all looking for.

488

The data and mobile phone coverage.I

489

think, again, probably it needs some

serious conversations with the providers.

490

But that doesn't seem insurmountable.

491

Some of the others seem much more

daunting than solving that problem.

492

But, these things need to be brought to

people's attention, or, it's really the

493

pace that we'd like to see stepped up.

494

Michelle Samson: Right.

495

I mean, yeah, the Feds have invested

so much in getting high speed internet

496

and data out to rural communities that

the, the next frontier really seems

497

like the highways after that point.

498

So, we're gonna cross our fingers and

we're gonna hope that does happen.

499

So I think you've already covered my

next question about what DNO is doing.

500

Unless there's something else

you wanna put it in there?

501

Ian Wood: I mean, I think We've produced

this paper, we're circulating it.

502

We can't dictate anything.

503

In fact, we're not mandated to do so.

504

And so our role is really to bring a

perspective that's a valid perspective

505

on behalf of our industry, and encourage

people to consider what options

506

might be available and to put some

thought and some emphasis behind it.

507

We continue to work with

other organizations.

508

So the Northwestern Ontario Municipal

Association and the Federation of Northern

509

Ontario Municipalities, which is the

Northeastern Municipal Association,

510

they went together to Ottawa basically

to ask for the four laning to be a

511

national project under the terms that

the federal government is looking for.

512

And, hopefully our voice helps a little

bit in those kind of initiatives.

513

Tourism Industry Association of

Ontario, Tourism Industry Association

514

of Canada, we've communicated this

to them and Destination Ontario

515

and TIAO have identified access as

priorities for them moving forward.

516

That's what we're talking about.

517

It's all about getting people in and

out and having them find their way

518

around in a safe and effective manner.

519

I'm not claiming that we instigated

any of this, but we're helping

520

to move the conversation along

and make sure it's not forgotten.

521

Michelle Samson: Yeah, and, you

know, there's tourism operators

522

who will be listening as well.

523

Is there anything that

they can do to help?

524

Ian Wood: I mean, yes.

525

Whenever operators are having

conversations, but especially

526

with local governments or their

MPPs, remember the importance of

527

transportation and reinforce it.

528

Nothing communicates more

effectively than a story, right?

529

So if there's an operator who's

got a story about either effective

530

transportation or a transportation issue

that's caused them real grief, those

531

kind of things, feel free to share those.

532

That's That's how people will

remember, and will encourage,

533

movement in these areas.

534

Michelle Samson: Kind of brings

us full circle back to your

535

story about the Canada Games.

536

It really does illustrate how a

problem can impact things on the

537

ground and similarly how solutions and

opportunities could push things forward.

538

So I think that's a great

piece of advice for them.

539

Alright.

540

One, second last question, I suppose.

541

If I could give you a magic wand,

Ian, and you could get one thing on

542

your wishlist done, what would it be?

543

What is that top priority?

544

Ian Wood: Yeah, I think I would have to

agree with the municipal associations

545

and talk about, I mean, if 94% of our

visitors are coming by road, and moving

546

around by road, then finding a way

to accelerate the pace of making our,

547

especially our Trans Canada Highway,

four lane, safe, efficient, resistant

548

to closures by weather and accidents.

549

You know, if that were to become a

nation building project for the next 20

550

to 25 years, that would be my wishlist.

551

Yeah.

552

Michelle Samson: Amazing.

553

I hate to break it to you, I do not have

a magic wand, but we're doing our best

554

to get the message out with this episode.

555

Any final thoughts before

we close this out, Ian?

556

Ian Wood: No, I appreciate

the opportunity.

557

I hope the people who are listening will

translate just a little bit into action.

558

And because you just never know who

you're going to be speaking with

559

next, or who you speak to next who's

gonna be speaking to somebody else

560

and where that's gonna lead to.

561

And so really that's all we can do is

to continue to talk about things and

562

recognize the importance to our industry

of moving these kind of things forward.

563

'Cause that's where growth will come from.

564

Michelle Samson: Alright, well,

I'll reiterate again that the

565

report that you guys prepared

will be linked in the show notes.

566

So if anybody needs a cheat

sheet for their conversations,

567

that's a good resource for them.

568

Thank you so much, Ian.

569

Ian Wood: Oh, Thank you, Michelle.

570

This was great.

571

Michelle Samson: And just

a quick postscript here.

572

The North Bay airport, which Ian

noted is losing its Air Canada route

573

to Toronto, has gotten some good news

since we recorded this interview.

574

Propair has announced that starting

575

from North Bay to Billy Bishop Airport

in Toronto with a shuttle to Pearson.

576

And as of January, 2026, North Star

Air is flying between Kenora and

577

Thunder Bay filling a gap left by

578

Sometimes when one airplane

door closes, another opens.

579

If you're a tourism business operator,

looking for more resources on

580

product development, human resources,

marketing, or partnerships, visit

581

DestinationNorthernOntario.ca

582

or any of the links in the show notes.

583

New episodes of this

podcast are coming soon.

584

Follow us on your favorite podcast

platform to be notified when it drops.

585

Destination: Northern Ontario is

produced by Storied Places Media

586

and hosted by me, Michelle Samson.

587

Thanks for listening.