Are you resisting digital marketing for your tourism business? Maybe you think your business is doing just fine without it, or that new technology feels a little overwhelming, or that you've got a Facebook page and isn't that enough? Whatever the reason, this episode’s guest—Mike Jacobs of The New Business—might just convince you to spend more time and money promoting yourself on the worldwide web. If you’re brand new to digital marketing, we’ve got actionable strategies for where to start. If you’re a veteran, you still want to tune in for Mike’s fascinating crystal ball insights on AI and the future of marketing.

• 02:59 Mike’s Case for Investing in Digital Marketing
• 08:51 The First Things You Should Invest In: Branding and a Website
• 16:35 The Next Step: Social Media
• 18:56 How Much Money to Spend and Where to Spend It
• 23:31 How AI is Changing Marketing
• 28:03 A Digital Marketing Success Story
• 31:12 Future Trends in Digital Marketing

Mentioned resources

• Emily Baillie’s episode of Let’s Talk Northern Ontario Tourism: https://player.captivate.fm/episode/6bb28c5d-3291-48fb-836c-d6e1fbca0e4b/

Find out more about The New Business and the Tourism Technology Company

• The New Business website: thenew.business
• Tourism Technology Company/Whereabouts website: tourism.tech

About the Destination: Northern Ontario podcast

This is a series for tourism business operators in rugged and beautiful Northern Ontario. Whether you're just starting out, or you've got years under your belt, this podcast will make sure you're well equipped for the journey. If you’re not an operator yet, but plan to buy a tourism business in the north, then check out Season 1 for case studies and expert guidance.

Learn more about tourism investment opportunities in Northern Ontario at invest.destination northernontario.ca. Follow DNO on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, or LinkedIn.

The podcast is hosted by Michelle Samson and produced by Storied Places Media.

The worst thing in any business is getting comfortable relying

2

on only one customer or customer segment

that you're not diversified from,

3

so you're not protected from at all.

4

Michelle Samson: Welcome to the

Destination Northern Ontario podcast.

5

This is a series for tourism

business operators here in the

6

rugged and beautiful North.

7

Whether you're just starting out,

or you've got years under your belt,

8

this podcast will make sure you're

well equipped for the journey.

9

I'm your host, Michelle Samson.

10

In this episode, we're continuing

with the topic of marketing, but

11

this time we're going deep into

the weeds of digital marketing.

12

Our guest is Mike Jacobs, the CEO of

The New Business, a digital marketing

13

agency that has been working in the

tourism space for the last 15 years.

14

They make websites, apps, ads, marketing

strategies and branding campaigns.

15

Basically everything that helps tourism

businesses reach visitors online.

16

If you've been resisting digital

marketing because your business is

17

doing just fine without it, or new

technology feels a little overwhelming,

18

or you've got a Facebook page and isn't

that enough, Mike just might convince

19

you to spend more time and money

promoting yourself on the worldwide web.

20

And if you have invested in digital

marketing already, Mike's got

21

advice and fascinating crystal

ball insights for you too.

22

But let's start with the basics.

23

I asked Mike to define

what digital marketing is.

24

Mike Jacobs: So marketing really

is at its core about taking your

25

product and choosing a market

that you want to take it to.

26

And for many of the people that we're

talking to today, it's about taking

27

a tourism product, like an experience

or an accommodation, an attraction,

28

and taking it to the market of

travelers of all kinds, tourists.

29

And online marketing is really

just the online part of that.

30

So you can you can definitely still

go and sell stuff in person through

31

travel agents, through yourself, on

the phone, by going to sports shows

32

around the world, North America.

33

But online is really all of the stuff

that happens on the internet and it

34

includes obviously largely things like

websites, social media, email marketing,

35

and now, AI and AI optimization.

36

The social media stuff, the website stuff,

a lot of that stuff includes building

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assets as well as using paid advertising.

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But there's also strategies

that don't require you to

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use any money to them happen.

40

So, leveraging the entirety of the

internet to take your product to market.

41

Michelle Samson: Yeah, I kind of, I

wanna dig into all of these things.

42

We're gonna save AI for a little

bit later in the conversation.

43

You mentioned, you know, all of these

ways of doing things that aren't

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online marketing that maybe a lot

of the operators who are listening

45

have found some success with.

46

They're still filling their rooms, they're

still getting people through the door.

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What is your case for investing in

online marketing when all of those

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things have maybe been working so far?

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Mike Jacobs: Yeah, this is probably

the most important question and

50

really more important for Northern

Ontario than probably anywhere

51

else that I've dealt with.

52

What we see in most of the successful

businesses in Northern Ontario is

53

that anywhere between 70 and 80% of

their customers are repeat customers.

54

And a lot of the research

around the tourism industry

55

in the north supports this.

56

What they found is just that once

people come to Northern Ontario,

57

they're very likely to come

back year after year after year.

58

And I mean, that other 20% is

kind of always up for grabs.

59

So when you have last minute

cancellations, or as we're seeing

60

now, you have people who are making

summer-like travel plans into September

61

and October every year, that's also

a way to see if there are new markets

62

to be grabbed and ways to expand your

business to generate more profits.

63

So that's, uh, that would be my sort

of way to sell why you should keep

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marketing is that other 20% is really

always up for grabs, and you need to

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make an investment to make sure that

future generations keep coming back.

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And the industry of marketing, especially

in the tourism space, says you you should

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invest about 20% of your net revenue back

into the marketing of your organization.

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So, if you're million dollar operation

and your net is like 200 grand, spend 20

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grand, spend 30 grand a year on marketing.

70

And that is just keeping you aware of

the trends and aware of how you have to

71

change your business to adapt to make sure

that the future generations are coming.

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Michelle Samson: Yeah, I kind of wanna

dig a little bit more into this, you

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know, making sure future generations

come back, but also the last minute

74

cancellations, and obviously top

of mind is everything that's been

75

happening with the United States.

76

You know, things can change so quickly

and the people who had been coming

77

year after year after year, suddenly

if 20% of them stopped coming, then

78

that's a big hit to your revenue.

79

So marketing is kind of an

insurance policy in a way, right?

80

Mike Jacobs: I would say that's, yeah,

that's exactly what I would say actually.

81

It's a way of making sure that

you've got business continuity.

82

And I mean, the worst thing in any

business is getting comfortable relying

83

on only one customer or customer segment

that you're not diversified from,

84

so you're not protected from at all.

85

One of my favorite stories from over the,

sort of, the height of COVID was from a

86

place called Branch's Seine River Lodge.

87

I'm sure either of the owners there

would be great guests on the podcast,

88

but while they were seeing, you know, a

massive reduction in visitors from the

89

US, which I have to add, so many of the

visitors that literally were legally

90

prevented from coming to Ontario over

some of those years were mostly rolling

91

forward their reservations, so, I mean,

that is just a testament to the power

92

of the product here in Northern Ontario.

93

But I would say if you look at what that

lodge did, it's a really interesting

94

case study for how marketing and the

positioning aspect comes with it can

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really provide a lifeline when things

change rapidly and dramatically.

96

So what they did is obviously

they, a lot of their American

97

visitors canceled their trips.

98

But they were quickly able to pivot

to adding a craft brewery option

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Michelle Samson: Hmm.

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Mike Jacobs: to their property.

101

Now, they're not fly in.

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If my memory serves correct, apologies

guys if you are, but I'm pretty sure their

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main lodge is not fly in, it's drive-in.

104

And so when they opened this craft

brewery, they sort of added all of the

105

things that go along with a craft brewery.

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There was meal options that went well

with coming and trying out a whole

107

bunch of different new beers, and

there were events, and there was music.

108

And so there was a reason for local

communities to travel to this place.

109

Even though they're not going there

for like a big remote fishing trip,

110

they're not treating it like their

bucket list vacation like many Americans

111

treat Northern Ontario vacations.

112

To them, it's just like, okay, now

this is a local option for something

113

fun to do while we're all in lockdown.

114

It's all on a big patio, we don't have

to wear masks, et cetera, et cetera.

115

And the power of taking things that

are trendy at the moment, like craft

116

breweries, and then using Facebook

and LinkedIn and Twitter and YouTube,

117

all of those things to get the message

out to local communities that this

118

is available and you should come.

119

And now that they've largely

resumed business operations, their

120

standard business operations, now

they have this additional element

121

that supercharges their business.

122

It's another level, another

venue for profitability.

123

Michelle Samson: Yeah,

so they kept it, eh?

124

Mike Jacobs: Yeah.

125

As far as I know, they're still

brewing the stuff there, and

126

it's another revenue source.

127

Michelle Samson: Right.

128

Okay.

129

So you just mentioned social media.

130

Earlier we talked about websites

and, you know, all the different ways

131

that you can do online marketing.

132

If you're really just starting

to take this advice and thinking,

133

okay, I will invest in something.

134

What is the first thing you need to have

when you're getting into online marketing?

135

Mike Jacobs: Yeah.

136

If you have nothing, and there are some

places in Northern Ontario obviously

137

doing so well with the returning

customers, there's not a lot of

138

reason for them to develop stuff, if

you're starting from total scratch, I

139

would say, trying to develop a brand

for your property is a good small

140

scale exercise for the off season.

141

It's something you can turn internally.

142

It's definitely something you can hire

high price consultants to do, but I

143

don't think it's necessarily needed.

144

And at its core, what I would say

branding really is, is about telling the

145

story of your business through values.

146

What I mean is your business has

a reason for existing, it has a

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story about how it came to be.

148

Either your grandparents bought

it and they built it up and they

149

attracted certain types of people

and they always wanted to offer

150

this hospitality experience.

151

And you took it over because it

was really important to continue

152

the legacy and you love the

guests and you love the lifestyle.

153

And you infuse the business

with the things that are

154

important to you, your values.

155

And this is usually at

the owner-operator level.

156

So just really trying to clearly

articulate what those values are

157

through the lens of the story of the

business, that will give you a brand.

158

And a brand isn't just a logo,

but a logo and like the fonts you

159

choose, the colors you choose.

160

A lot of that stuff very quickly

helps people identify, these are

161

signals to them about what it means.

162

So you've got a pine tree in your logo.

163

It's green, it's got some

orange, it's got a sunset.

164

People very quickly understand like,

okay, this is a nature-based place.

165

If you've got a fish in the

logo, if you've got a hook in the

166

logo, people understand, okay,

fishing is really important here.

167

So I would say take it the next step

further and say like, what is the

168

interesting nuance about your place

that really showcases how it is unique

169

amongst several similar properties.

170

There's all kinds of examples across

Northern Ontario, places that do

171

food better, places that have, you

know, legendary fish fry recipes.

172

Places that have like incredible guides.

173

There's all kinds of stuff.

174

So, refining that would be a first step.

175

If you're already at that place, you're

happy with your logo, you think you know

176

who you are, you think people understand

who you are, the next step is a website

177

because it really is the thing that you

own, where you get to really stake your

178

claim for who you are in the industry.

179

I don't think you need to go as

far as like creating a website

180

where you're posting new blog

content every week and you've got

181

features and videos and audio stuff.

182

It really can be pretty simple,

and don't make it hard on yourself.

183

The things that are kind of most

important are very basic things

184

like who, what, when, where, why.

185

People wanna see pictures.

186

They do wanna see video

too, if you've got it.

187

But they want to know where you are,

brief description of your services,

188

and how to get in touch with you.

189

That's it.

190

do it in the most polished and

professional way that you can manage.

191

So I'd almost say do less,

just do it as well as you can.

192

Michelle Samson: I've seen a lot of

operators, instead of doing a website,

193

do like a Facebook page or, you know,

if you're in accommodations, a listing

194

on Airbnb or that type of thing.

195

What are your thoughts

on that kind of approach?

196

Mike Jacobs: Yeah, I mean, these

things really depend on the type

197

of business that you're running.

198

There's all kinds of reasons

for these types of things.

199

My main sort of aversion to saying

like, Facebook should be your number one

200

marketing strategy is just that you're

really at the whims of Facebook and we've

201

seen this kind of work to independent

businesses owners negatively as a

202

result of depending on Facebook so much.

203

So for a long time we went through

a period of like, let's build our

204

followings, let's build our page, let's

put daily updates and everything there.

205

And then Facebook changes the

algorithm and people aren't

206

coming to your page anymore.

207

I think the shift we're seeing in

social media right now is everything

208

is interest-based rather than,

like, account or creator-based.

209

There's really no way for a small business

to break through unless you get insanely

210

lucky and just happen to capture something

like a bald eagle landing on the handle on

211

an outboard motor or something like that.

212

So, it's really a total fluke,

um, when the algorithm kind

213

of lets you get through.

214

So you're putting a lot of eggs

in the Facebook basket and you're

215

giving them a lot of power.

216

A website is kind of different.

217

You know, Google still has a lot of power

in determining whether or not somebody

218

comes to your website just accidentally.

219

But it is a place where people can,

like, type in the name of your business,

220

find your website, and then find your

way of telling your story basically.

221

Michelle Samson: How important is it

to use Google, to kind of claim your

222

business and add your hours, instead of

just sort of letting Google do its thing?

223

Mike Jacobs: Yeah, it's super important.

224

It can make a huge, huge

difference in the casual interest.

225

That 80% base that's coming back

year after year, they're not really

226

using Google to find you obviously.

227

But that other 20%, you know,

they're just looking around.

228

A lot of people will start trip

planning by using Google Maps.

229

And so if you claim your Google My

Business listing, the other thing is

230

you're just kind of leaving it open

for bad actors to claim and use it to

231

spam or direct people to competitors.

232

It's, yeah, it's not ideal.

233

It's definitely something you

should claim as quickly as you can.

234

That being said, I speak with

operators all the time and I know

235

a big concern is like, well, what

do I do if I get negative reviews?

236

Overpower them with positive reviews.

237

There's tons and tons of studies out

there that people who see five star

238

reviews and one star reviews basically

ignore whatever those people have to say.

239

And so you want to get, you know,

you want to get your four star

240

reviews as often as possible, uh,

because they're far more trustworthy.

241

They represent balanced opinions and

that's what people are looking for.

242

If you have a legitimate bad

review, you need to do something

243

about that in your business.

244

But if it's just somebody with a bone

to pick, respond calmly and rationally.

245

Don't get into fights with people.

246

It's all pretty common sense stuff.

247

Michelle Samson: Our sister podcast,

let's Talk Northern Ontario Tourism

248

has a great episode with Emily Baillie,

which is kind of similar to this

249

conversation, and I would recommend

anybody listening to this episode

250

should totally listen to that episode.

251

She gives some advice around using

AI to help you craft responses

252

to those negative reviews.

253

So, you know, instead of letting your

emotions get you on the internet and

254

on the keyboard a little bit too fast,

you can use AI to help temper that

255

response and be calm and thorough.

256

So, yeah, sorry to plug someone else's

episode while I'm talking to you, Mike.

257

Mike Jacobs: I know Emily super

well, and she is an expert.

258

She's really, really great at this

subject, so definitely listen to her.

259

Michelle Samson: And it'll be interesting

to hear what you say about AI, which

260

we will save again for another minute,

and then what she has to say about AI.

261

But, okay, so just kind of stacking

this up a bit, we've got our

262

brand, we've got our website, we've

claimed our business on Google.

263

What comes next after that?

264

Mike Jacobs: Um, on your website,

I would just add one more comment.

265

A lot of people feel like they

furiously have to keep the

266

website up to date all the time.

267

Try and update it seasonally.

268

Michelle Samson: Hmm.

269

Mike Jacobs: Update it once every three

months to match whatever season you're in.

270

Your customers, you know when they're

planning stuff, so update your website

271

right before they start planning their

summer stuff or their spring stuff.

272

And it really doesn't have to be much.

273

A couple of changes of words, change

the main image on the site, change

274

the videos, post a welcoming message.

275

That's it.

276

On the next step I would say

is the world of social media.

277

And the trends that I'm really

seeing right now is that most

278

of social media is video.

279

Posting static images and graphics and

illustration, it still has a place.

280

I'm not saying don't do it.

281

It definitely resonates better on

Facebook than any other platform.

282

But by and large, taking the

time to do some video is gonna

283

get you the best response.

284

And what we're largely seeing is

that things are interest-based.

285

They're not, again, like creator-based,

so nobody's really gonna follow

286

your business account anymore.

287

Your best chance of being seen is

just publishing new videos across all

288

platforms because they basically all

want video formatted for quick little

289

clips to be watched on your phone.

290

So 30 seconds and under, try to

find something really interesting

291

to shoot or talk about.

292

I would say empower your staff because

they're often toe to toe with the reality

293

of running your business every day.

294

Give them some guidelines, but

don't make them too prohibitive.

295

I think you'll find that actually

people are really interested in

296

the day-to-day comings and goings

of most tourism businesses.

297

So yeah, don't take it

too seriously at first.

298

Don't treat it like it

needs to be super polished.

299

In fact, more casual lo-fi stuff tends

to get a lot more attention these days

300

than polished corporate looking stuff.

301

Yeah, social video.

302

Michelle Samson: And that's such an

interesting point too 'cause we've

303

talked about like investing in marketing

and, you know, there's the time

304

investment, there's a money investment.

305

I, you know, I think we can already say

that social media can be one of those

306

things that you spend your time on.

307

But where would you recommend sort

of focusing money if you're going to

308

invest in and put money into this?

309

Mike Jacobs: Yeah, it's a good question.

310

If you don't have a website, I

would maybe put anywhere between

311

like two and five grand to pay

somebody to build a website for you.

312

If you're good with tech, you

know, there's lots of free

313

website builders out there.

314

I would still recommend putting

some money into Google AdWords.

315

Let's say your marketing

budget for a year was $20,000.

316

Five grand into building a website,

maybe another five grand into

317

Google AdWords, which is basically

just advertising in search.

318

The reason why I say that, even though

we're living in an era of AI snippets

319

directing people to AI results,

is that, you know, the product in

320

Northern Ontario is still pretty niche.

321

We're talking about a very specific

group of people who are likely

322

to come to Northern Ontario and

want to do that kind of trip.

323

And so AI right now is very

good at the general stuff and

324

taking traffic away there.

325

But for the niche stuff, you still have

a chance to capture new attention there.

326

What you want, really want to be

looking at there is your cost of

327

acquisition, so your cost per click.

328

And then just making sure that

you're following through to

329

see how do those people behave

when they get to your website?

330

Are they there for two

seconds and then leaving?

331

Or they staying there for 30

seconds and then moving on?

332

Or clicking a call button

or a book now button.

333

The rest of the money I would

probably put into social media.

334

I am a cautious supporter

of the Meta ecosystem.

335

I would say that demographically, a lot of

the people coming to Northern Ontario are

336

50 plus, and that matches with Facebook.

337

Michelle Samson: Hmm.

338

Mike Jacobs: A lot of that

demographic generally spends time

339

on Facebook, either reading stuff,

watching video content, et cetera.

340

It's also, it owns Instagram and WhatsApp.

341

And so it's really easy to do ads on

Facebook that also show up on Instagram.

342

So yeah, taking the time to

build interesting ads that

343

show up in those places.

344

The simpler, the better.

345

As I said before, do less.

346

Don't try to put out a hundred

different ads, put out two or three

347

ads and just watch how they perform.

348

I would also say that with any

kind of advertising, the first

349

six months to a year is really an

investment in like market research

350

Michelle Samson: Hmm.

351

Mike Jacobs: Because you're

gonna see how people respond to

352

different ways of being spoken to.

353

What images do they like?

354

What combination of words

resonates with them?

355

Once you have that information, you

can kind of take it and build new, even

356

more successful campaigns for yourself.

357

Michelle Samson: So you're saying you

need to experiment in those early stages?

358

Mike Jacobs: It is a bit of an experiment.

359

I mean, you think you know what resonates

with people about your business.

360

You're gonna find new information and

new nuance through doing advertising.

361

And a lot of people will go to a place of

like, I'm not seeing bookings immediately.

362

A booking is a high ticket item.

363

Nobody buys a plane ticket because

they see a billboard for Air France.

364

You know, it takes more than that.

365

So participating in all of the

DMO marketings, I mean, there's

366

tons of DMOs in Northern Ontario.

367

There's also DNO.

368

These give you other opportunities

and avenues to be seen by a

369

consumer before your ad hits them.

370

So where, you know, a Destination Ontario

or a Destination Northern Ontario is

371

reminding people like fishing exists,

hunting exists, snowmobile touring exists.

372

All of these products that are

storied Northern Ontario tourism

373

products, they're setting the stage

with awareness and repetition.

374

And businesses at the bottom of the

marketing funnel are there to say

375

like, okay, now that you are thinking

about that, our business is the

376

one you should choose because of X.

377

Michelle Samson: Yeah, for sure.

378

Okay, so we're getting deep into this and

I've teased AI a couple times already.

379

So maybe we should get to that.

380

Tell me about how AI is changing

this marketing game and, you know,

381

is this something that's just for the

advanced people who are doing online

382

marketing, or is this something for

the people who are newer to it as well?

383

Mike Jacobs: I mean, it is for everyone.

384

I definitely think you

have to take that approach.

385

I think anybody going into it today has

to go into it with a beginner's mindset

386

that you are there to observe and learn.

387

And in my estimation, the most important

thing is to be extremely critical of

388

what's happening because in a sense,

you are handing over some control of a

389

process that you would take much more

seriously than perhaps your AI agent is.

390

So be very critical as you're

going through these things.

391

But I would, you know, Barack Obama

did an interview about AI and after

392

he'd done sort of a really long and

protracted investigative period with

393

all of like the head thinkers and

the Open AIs and the Sam Altmans of

394

the world, and one of the technicians

had this very pithy observation.

395

And Obama said to them,

what would you equate this

396

transformation in technology to?

397

The tech said electricity.

398

Michelle Samson: Hmm.

399

Mike Jacobs: And so I would draw

the parallel that this isn't a fad.

400

There's no escape.

401

Michelle Samson: Hmm.

402

Mike Jacobs: But it is how

you are going to use it that's

403

gonna make all the difference.

404

And how the world uses it

has yet to be fully revealed.

405

So you need to be in there with a

beginner's mindset and just be like,

406

part of what's going on is that I'm just

gonna learn how this technology works.

407

Some of us might remember starting with

computers in the office and getting a

408

spreadsheet program and being able to like

automatically calculate insane things that

409

would've taken weeks before in minutes.

410

And now we're at this other

vast explosion in productivity.

411

In terms of how it impacts marketing

for individual businesses in

412

Northern Ontario, I think it really

is like an assistant for you.

413

Michelle Samson: Hmm.

414

Mike Jacobs: So if you are not, you know,

a marketer at heart or a creative person

415

at heart, but this stuff has to be done.

416

When you get to the point where you've

done the work of creating a website,

417

you've done the work of posting videos to

social, you can now ask this assistant to

418

act as a creative marketing professional

and critique the things that you've done.

419

So read the copy on the website and

tell me if this will attract, the

420

male, 45 to 75 angling audience who are

from the border states around Ontario.

421

It can do that stuff really well and give

you insights on what to focus on next.

422

You can definitely also use it to

write your copy for you, but it's

423

like anything else in the world when

you're asking somebody else, including

424

this, to do something for you.

425

The clearer you are with your needs,

the better job it will produce.

426

As somebody who's got a staff of 20

people, the times where I have skimped

427

on explaining a project, I pay for it,

and the times that I've methodically

428

laid everything out and explained every

detail, the team requires less of me and

429

they're able to do really great work.

430

So yeah, start with a beginner's mindset.

431

It's great for everything on the

marketing side, writing copy.

432

You can definitely generate images for it.

433

My contention personally is that tourism

is so much about place that showing an

434

artificially generated image, unless

it's like something really clever

435

and it's about something other than

the place, you know, it's showing

436

that you understand your audience or

connect with them on a different level.

437

It's a meme or something like that.

438

And it's not just like here's a

beautiful misty morning on Lake X.

439

I think it can go kind of wrong and I

think it decreases people's trust in you.

440

Michelle Samson: So just go out

and take a beautiful photo of

441

a misty morning on the lake.

442

Mike Jacobs: You know?

443

Yeah.

444

Michelle Samson: Okay.

445

And yeah, the Emily Baillie

episode has more tactical ideas.

446

So definitely recommend going over there.

447

I'd like to dig into your experience

a little bit before I let you go.

448

And, you know, you've worked with so many

clients and a big part of your process is

449

analytics and reporting, which I always

love, I think everyone likes to see

450

examples and also some proof, which is

what the analytics and reporting can do.

451

I'm wondering if you have a relevant

example, a client that did invest in

452

online marketing, whether it was ads or

website or social media or whatever it

453

is, and came out with some big wins from

it and that it was worth the investment?

454

Mike Jacobs: I'll give you

one story right off the hop.

455

This one is like one I'm intimately

familiar with, and it really

456

is about just one operator.

457

We do a lot of, you know, larger

sort of awareness campaigns.

458

But we had an operator,

indigenous operator, just

459

outside of Manitoulin Island.

460

And he was just starting his business.

461

So he had started two

of these glamping domes.

462

He had put them together under great

duress over the fall and winter, set

463

up everything absolutely perfectly.

464

Him and his wife did a spectacular

job making these really, really

465

attractive places to stay, they

were like nestled in the woods.

466

He also does guiding out

on the North Channel there.

467

They were just starting their business

and so we started working with them and

468

we built them a website and we were pretty

exacting about building that website.

469

And we built them a booking engine so

that they could take bookings right away.

470

And he is a younger guy,

really great at social media.

471

Like he has a drone, he's got one of

the gimbals to do everything stabilized.

472

He spends enough time on social

that he knows the trends.

473

He uses the editing software

that everybody uses.

474

And his first week with these two

glamping domes, he made $20,000

475

bucks right out of the gate.

476

That is not something

you hear about every day.

477

But the investment of an insane amount

of effort of making the product really

478

great, making the marketing really

great, we spent so many hours putting

479

all that stuff together, and then

making the social really great, all came

480

together in a business that was just

launched being instantly fully booked.

481

Michelle Samson: Wow.

482

Mike Jacobs: Yeah.

483

Michelle Samson: And starting

a business is so, I mean,

484

you're starting from scratch.

485

You don't have that 80% coming back.

486

You haven't built that yet.

487

Mike Jacobs: Yeah.

488

So taking the time to do each of

those things definitely pays off, but

489

he's a young guy, it's a monumental

amount of work to make that effort.

490

It was also a business that was

just starting up, so he had a

491

little bit of leeway, he could

put the rest of his life on hold

492

while all of these things happened.

493

If you're 30, 40 years into a very

successful business, to put everything

494

down and say, okay, I'm gonna focus

for the next month on a website, a

495

booking engine, great social presence

and some ads, and that's gonna bring me,

496

you know, another $20, $40, you know,

$60,000 a year, it's a harder sell.

497

I understand it.

498

We all get into our patterns, but I

can say if you do the full court press,

499

I've definitely seen the results myself.

500

It works.

501

Michelle Samson: Okay,

let's zoom out again.

502

Just briefly, I'd like to get

your view into the crystal ball.

503

You know, with everything you know

about marketing, everything you've

504

seen, how have things changed recently

and then like where do you think

505

things are gonna go in the near future?

506

Mike Jacobs: Yeah, well, search engine

optimization is really on its way out.

507

Michelle Samson: Hmm.

508

Mike Jacobs: It's a very

challenging environment.

509

AI optimization and getting recommended

by AI chatbots or chat agents, that's

510

gonna become a whole new field and

everybody trying to game that so

511

that their business gets recommended.

512

There's all kinds of ideas

floating around out there.

513

Honestly, by the time most of

the operators listening to this

514

put any of them into practice,

like they'll be out of date.

515

So in terms of what is going to happen,

we haven't really even scratched the

516

surface of what's possible with AI.

517

I would say that operationally a lot of

operators are gonna start to see packaged

518

solutions from businesses that address

parts of their business, like accounting,

519

bookkeeping, inventory management.

520

Things that are essentially kind of

low risk, that need a little bit of

521

human supervision anyways, those things

will start to become things that you

522

can buy for $20 a month that saves

you $200 a month in bookkeeping costs.

523

Et cetera, et cetera.

524

Those things will just get smarter and

better and better, and that will probably

525

happen on a one to two year horizon.

526

You'll start to see products that are

just like off the shelf plug and play.

527

In terms of like what a lot of people

talk about, where you've got like a whole

528

staff of AI agents working for you and

taking care of individual parts of your

529

business, I mean, this vision is great.

530

Especially in the tourism industry, we

often struggle to attract and maintain

531

people working at a lot of our operators.

532

This will fill a lot of gaps for us,

so I'm hoping that it just makes it

533

easier to run tourism businesses.

534

In terms of where it's going for

digital marketing, I have to say the

535

prognosis is not great at this moment.

536

I think we're about to go through a

period maybe of two to three years where

537

inundated with AI-generated content,

and a lot of that will be garbage.

538

Michelle Samson: AI slop, as they call it.

539

Mike Jacobs: AI slop.

540

Yeah.

541

The parallel I would draw is that in

the way that we're seeing a lot of

542

income inequality in the world right

now, people who can't afford access

543

to higher end experiences, that's

the internet they will experience.

544

And then we'll have more boutique

targeted services that still access

545

through the internet, but they will be

for people who can kind of afford it.

546

And a lot of it will be pay to play.

547

So it's almost like all of the good stuff

we've been watching for free will now

548

be paid to see, much like television,

cable streaming, all that kind of stuff.

549

So that would be the big

split on the content side.

550

Yeah, it's gonna be interesting to see

how travel planning changes as a result.

551

And how we insert tourism into that space.

552

I guess the crystal ball is kind of

revealing to me right now what the main

553

challenge is right now in using AI in

an optimal way for trip planning, is

554

that all of the big tech companies are

fighting to see who can dominate AI.

555

Michelle Samson: Hmm.

556

Mike Jacobs: So, Microsoft,

Google, Facebook, Twitter, all

557

have their own AI agents, Open AI.

558

They're all trying to control how

we use AI so that when the moment

559

comes for them to be able to profit

off of it, it's under their control.

560

Much like search or

social or office products.

561

And really where we're at is as consumers,

I mean, it's not the best outcome for us.

562

This kind of stuff stifles innovation.

563

It's gonna slow down the progress

of what we're able to do.

564

And it's gonna mean that we continue with

technology these walled garden approaches.

565

So if one company like Apple does

phones better, but another company

566

does email better, like Google, they

don't really work perfectly together.

567

Michelle Samson: Mm-hmm.

568

Mike Jacobs: And so the companies

will have no incentive to say like,

569

okay, we're gonna allow your agent

to like have a Google calendar, but

570

on an iPhone that can manually...

571

There may be some cases where they let

things slip through the cracks, but I

572

mean, it's essentially the blue bubble

green bubble problem all over again.

573

They're all fighting for control and

really it's just gonna be about us

574

consumers piecing together different

aspects of each system to try and

575

get it to do what we want it to do.

576

Yeah, unfortunately not the greatest

take on AI, but as somebody who's been

577

in tech since he was like 10 years

old, I don't see the pattern being very

578

different than anything else in the past.

579

Michelle Samson: Yeah.

580

And as much as we basically have to

engage with digital media, you know,

581

we can't completely disconnect, but it

makes it even more important to deliver

582

that experience when people do come to

see you and to give them that offline

583

experience, once you've convinced them to

hit that book button or walk through your

584

door for your restaurant or all of that,

and that real human connection, right?

585

Mike Jacobs: Yeah, absolutely.

586

A couple of months ago there was a

motel for sale somewhere in Ontario,

587

and I said, wouldn't it be interesting

if we like bought this motel and

588

then made it just fully automated,

like no people there whatsoever.

589

Use your phone to open the door.

590

There's meals in a vending machine you

can buy and heat up in a microwave.

591

You know, make robots do all

of the cleaning somehow, which

592

I'm sure would be fun to watch.

593

And the reaction from the industry

was like, what are you talking about?

594

This is a terrible idea.

595

People come for the people, they

come for the experience that people

596

make, and, yeah, they're right.

597

It really is.

598

That's where the buck stops in tourism.

599

So we can social media and websites

all we want, but at the end of the

600

day, they gotta have a good time.

601

Michelle Samson: It's a

good place to leave it off.

602

I know you gotta run, Mike.

603

So, um, thank you so much.

604

This was really interesting and

thanks for coming on the show.

605

Mike Jacobs: Yeah.

606

Appreciate it.

607

Great to meet you too.

608

Michelle Samson: That was Mike Jacobs,

the CEO of The New Business and co-founder

609

of the Tourism Technology Company.h

610

If you're a tourism business operator

looking for more resources on

611

product development, human resources,

marketing, or partnerships, visit

612

DestinationNorthernOntario.ca

613

or any of the links in the show notes.

614

New episodes of this

podcast are coming soon.

615

Follow us on your favorite podcast

platform to be notified when it drops.

616

Destination: Northern Ontario is

produced by Storied Places Media

617

and hosted by me, Michelle Samson.

618

Thanks for listening.