Is the UAE the next global gateway for finance?

Join us as we sit down with Kevin Kilty, Founder and CEO of Hubpay, the pioneering cross-border payment platform. Kevin reveals Hubpay's dual-phase strategy, from solving payment gaps for retail and business customers to leveraging the UAE's strategic position for global trade.

We dive into the massive impact of stablecoins and AI on the region's financial landscape, discussing how these technologies are poised to revolutionise global transactions, particularly for businesses operating in volatile markets.

Don't miss Kevin's insights on the booming potential of Middle East fintech and its implications for the international financial system.

Key Takeaways:

• The challenge of building a compliant cross-border payment infrastructure.
• Why stablecoins are a game-changer for transactions in unstable currency regions.
• The role of AI in streamlining business onboarding and operational efficiency.

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Foreign.

Connect with purpose.

I'm joined by Kevin Kilty, who's the founder and CEO of hubpay.

So welcome Kevin to, to our podcast.

Lovely to be here, Augusta.

Well, well, welcome and I think without me introducing Hub Pay, I think it would actually be better for you to introduce it.

So yeah, would you, would you kind of share with the audience?

You know, what is Hub Pay?

What are you doing, what are you trying to achieve with it?

Sure.

So Hub Pay is a cross border payment platform.

We've been trading about four years now in the UAE and effectively what we built, our main kind of product is a accounting, a payments and accounts platform for businesses from small up to large across the uae where we can onboard businesses very quickly, give them leading kind of FX pricing and rates and deliver kind of world class kind of service across payments internationally.

Cool.

Okay.

So were you the first, were you the first player in the Middle east doing this?

Was that, was that my uae?

Yeah, we were the first fintech.

Correct.

We were the first fintech.

The UAE only brought out a rogue framework about five years ago, initially one of the free zones in adgm.

Subsequently it has done so in DIFC and also now with the main regulator central bank of the, of the uae.

Okay, nice.

And what problem were you trying to solve?

I think we could have solved it in two phases.

So phase one, there was a very clear gap in the market for a transwise type solution for both retail and business customers and that's what you launched.

However, can of phase two, which we're now beginning to finally move into, and it's taken longer than we would have liked, is to build more of a cross border kind of platform for starting with businesses in uae, but business across the wider region and really leveraging the UAE's position as the kind of gateway to the emerging world, address a lot more of those kind of businesses, whether they're sending or receiving payments globally and of those payments are indeed over at any kind of currency or any destination.

And, and do you think that like what's Hudpay's edge in the context of the wider market, in the context of other firms that are doing this or similar things?

Yeah.

So I think in the, in the UAE initially there were no fintechs doing it.

So you and I are both originally from the UK and we saw everyone from Transferwise to Kinomonzo provide a simple solution where it was quick to kind of get an account, there was a solution to execute those payments kind of quite quickly and at a low cost.

And that gap was missing UA we still think it is missing banks typically focus on providing and making the money around deposits and lending.

Payments are always, have always been a bit of a secondary consideration.

So that's kind of how we started off and that's.

We still think that's a pretty major fundamental gap.

The second phase of that is going into a more integrated solution where we built out Hub Pay Connect and we've got a whole load of APIs.

So you have a business, you can connect your business to our platform and so you can have all of your payments fully automated and fully LinkedIn whether it's your accounting software or your Salesforce CRM or your Oracle analytics, et cetera.

And I think outside of the UAE we think that's still quite a significant gap across Europe.

So you still have a lot of kind of transvises and ebrease doing well on payments.

We haven't seen really a very integrated open API kind of platform to take it to the kind of next level.

Interesting.

Where did this idea come from?

Like had you spent time in the Middle east before?

You know you came up with this or how did this, how did this idea come come up?

So my background was banking, so I understood FX and payments and finance jeopardy fairly well.

I'd spent a significant amount of time across the inter emerging markets but more focused on kind of micro finance and seeing the benefit microfinance had in terms of transforming other economies.

And so I thought that was a really kind of interesting aspect.

And so my kind of view is just like if you look at a country like Nigeria, just how there's been a leapfrog where, you know, in the UK we had landlines, everyone had a landline, the house, they didn't went to mobile phones.

And so I see fintech having the same opportunity.

Fintech is being considerably devalued across Europe from retails to businesses to a whole range of different kind of verticals and products.

In the emerging world I see even greater potential because the gap is wider And UAE struck me as a great focal point to start in the UAE and then grow out to some of the countries I've been to, whether it's North Africa or wider Middle east or indeed Asia.

Has this space changed a huge amount then in the Middle east in the UAE over the last four or five years since you've been operating here?

I Think it's changed less than I possibly thought it was was going to if I'm being honest.

I think we've seen a number of providers come in similar to us but I think we're all fairly early on in terms of development and I think that has been down to the ecosystem hasn't fully developed but it's now gaining traction and picking up velocity.

So I think over the last kind of five years probably since we started, there wasn't a huge number of accelerator programs, venture capital was more limited, there wasn't a huge pool of engineers or people in that kind of space.

And so the momentum wasn't, wasn't quite there.

However, I would say in the last year or 18 months that's shifted quite considerably.

And one of the big factors in the wider kind of fintech space has been the growth and the success of launch of the REG framework and cryptocurrency.

Because what we're going to see, what we're beginning to see now is traditional kind of more, more traditional kind of fintech overlapping with cryptocurrency to create new financial consistency.

And what themes are you seeing then within this space?

Just more more broadly, more generally.

Three things best I think number one is the ability to onboard businesses and customers rapidly from a risk point of view because that's always with retail users has always been easier.

People at Revolut have done it very well with businesses it's been much more challenging and we haven't seen a huge level of innovation and change in that.

So I think the ability to onboard and get a business live very quickly is the kind of first kind of step relatively obvious but still has been quite challenging for a lot of businesses.

And then I'd say two other areas.

One will be around that level of integration where if you're a business right now you want a one stop shop for all your kind of payments needs across cards, across fx, across accounts.

You want to fully integrate in a system so when you make a payment it updates your accounting software real time, it updates your software real time, et cetera.

So I think a, a much more advanced kind of integrated platform.

And a third one, I would say the third theme is the most seismic shift and that is the stablecoin as a major financial system.

So you've seen USDT used by Tether in the United States and then also circle as the two leading kind of stablecoin providers where they've launched a digital token backed by the US dollar.

What that address was, if I'm sending you bitcoin the volatility in bitcoin on a daily basis is a very fan of thing.

So if you invoice me for recruit recruiting contract, I was like, hey, I'll pay it in bitcoin.

You'd be like, great, well, let's put some buffer in there because that could change by 3, 5% by the time I receive it.

Where if you invoice me in dollars and I say, well, I'm going to pay in usdt, you are getting the exact same kind of currency.

Right.

There is no volatility into it and it can be switched in from USDT into real physical dollars in seconds at barely any cost.

I think that we're beginning to see that make waves and I think it's going to have the biggest impact in kind of emerging, emerging markets.

Do you think that's going to shift your business long term?

I think that's the future of the business, Augusta.

Yeah.

Okay.

I think, I think the way I see it right now is it's going to be a major pillar of the business going forward.

So where we are right now is our position.

We've started in the uae.

UAE and we'll be growing out internationally.

We've got two other licenses pending in, in further jurisdictions.

We're licensed in Pakistan and Pakistan are going to bring out crypto license framework soon.

And what you'll be able to see is to go, okay, you know, let's say Steel, Steel and for limited, who was previously paying in dollars or euros or indeed maybe like Nigeria Naira just for some of their invoices, do they want to either send or receive USDT as well?

Right.

And again, they're going to want one platform to do that seamlessly where they can end up collecting fiat.

A lot of these companies themselves don't want to hold cryptocurrency or don't want to transact.

They want to deal with the fiat, but they want to benefit of the speed and the lack of friction and, and quite a few of this is lower cost.

Do you think this, this, this stablecoin plays predominantly within currencies where, like countries where their currency is not stable.

So emerging markets.

Yeah, I think we're seeing a, probably a more acute case there.

But I will give you an example.

We have seen transactions where people are trading, importing or exporting into Japan.

And Japan is, you know, third largest economy globally, very advanced kind of financial systems.

But Japan has three megabanks.

I used to work for one of them previously when I was in the city in London and they weighed down by legacy systems and that will be down by legacy cost.

So both the speed and the cost is quicker to go in, go from let's say euros to USDT to Japanese yen, what we call the stablecoin sandwich rather and vice versa, rather than straight from euros to Japanese yen.

Right.

And that is because, you know, so I spoke to somebody who was selling pharmaceuticals into Japan from Europe and they were waiting to get cap an ETM back and convert it back into euros and it was just taking five to seven days.

So really disrupting their working capital cycle.

And then the margins were ferociously high.

They were, the, the, the FX spreads were very expensive.

Once you, they brought to stablecoin, they were executing the trades within 30 minutes end to end and it was cheaper.

So the, the impact there in global trade, which is vastly more than what we sent on a retail level by about 100 to 200 times is massive.

And that's, you know, so the developer markets and emerging markets alike.

That's interesting.

So if you're a small business, medium business, large business, listening to that, using stable coins actually can reduce your cost and increase your speed of transfer.

Yeah, transfer.

Okay, interesting.

Very interesting.

I should take note.

Okay, so, and, and, and do you think that more and more stable coins are going to get created then it'll.

Be an interesting one.

So once again the United States leads, leads the industries on technology, right.

I mean from everything from social media to, to electric vehicles and then people can then replicate it.

Right.

I think it's a big challenge about what we're going to see.

And so I think the emergence of USDT and USDC has in my view, kind of maintained the dollar's supremacy at a time when especially with kind of trade wars going on, there is concern about the dollar losing its status as a result of the currency.

I think the fact that you have these stablecoins in play, I think they've ensured its prominence for the next 100 years.

Do I see other countries like Euros doing it?

Yeah, I absolutely think, I'm sure there already is one out from euro.

We're just not seeing it in the market as yet.

And I know China is now deciding and discussing it.

I think if you're a country in other markets, it's a, it's something you need to get to grips of right now because it's going to have a huge impact in sovereign nations monetary policy.

Because if everyone starts moving out of your currency for favors, for a digital stable token, that's going to be a huge problem about how you actually control Money supply because you know you're going to see an enormous splice on a currency.

So I think it's something the current and the, you will see more of it.

I saw recently Andrew Bailey, governor of bank of England, who was more conserved about it, said actually there's a use case for it and they are exploring it more, more actively and so be interested to see what the bank of England does, does, does in that rather soon.

The stablecoin play is really interesting because I think especially in relation to the devaluation of like the US dollar is the most prominent currency.

I think that's super interesting point because I've been thinking for a long time that US dollar is going to not be so prominent in even 10 years.

So.

Well, that's absolutely.

And you know, the current leadership has certainly accelerated that from where the economy was at, from a trade war point of view.

Because once you start putting on tariffs and stuff, you'll go like, you know, am I going to hold dollars anymore?

And then if you've seen the increase in kind of gold price, that's a huge indication where that capital fight has already taken place.

On the flip side, getting the Genius app passed through the Senate, we've had a whole lot of structural changes around cryptocurrency and stablecoin I think has allowed the kind of spirit entrepreneurship within that industry really just gained kind of further momentum.

And I say, I would say that's something the UAE has emulated very well with the viral licensing or the crypto firms.

There's a huge number of cryptocurrencies now, not just putting an office here, but putting their other regional, the global headquarters in the uae.

So I think that's going to be, I think that's going to be a significant boon for the uae.

Do you think that there in the future there's going to be a situation where certain cryptocurrencies like, like bitcoin is pegged against something like I know people are obviously.

Do you think that there's a future.

In that thing is difficult?

I think it's difficult for bitcoin to do that.

The criticism of Bitcoin is either an asset, you're a currency, you can't be both.

Right.

You know, gold stopped being a currency when people, people started using it as an asset.

Right.

And bitcoin has always been treated as an asset right now and economists have debated this.

That's the inherent problem there.

The way new bitcoin is mined naturally increases its value.

Right.

So there's this, it's, it's I think there's a catch 22 so no I don't think it's.

I think what you'll do is you'll love further maybe stablecoins maybe other.

The question is what do you, what do you peg it to?

You do already have digital tokens pegged to gold, right?

Will you have other digital tokens pegged to other kind of assets?

You know the, the Spanish and tokenization is doing so those are.

But I don't think you will see on Bitcoin.

I mean Bitcoin will stay a kind of independent free flow currency.

Interesting.

And how does AI impact your business or this whole sector?

How do you see it?

Yeah this is super interesting because we've seen there's a lot of tool that we've got you know Bloomberg on the TV playing in the office behind us and every day now there's a talk about are we in the AI bubble, is it similar to this kind of dotcom bubble etc.

And so I'm covering you know a lot of companies value operations increased without to say a real marketing improvement on how they're using AI to either improve business processes or increase efficiency.

I think that's the case for some more established businesses because their legacy systems will weigh them down.

There's only so much impact AI maybe be able to have right.

Is like putting another system on top of a few hundred worth of legacy systems that they already have in place within tech companies.

If it's not in integrated in every layer of your of your business you're in trouble.

And the point the impact has had on us it has been massive.

So I'll give you three examples.

One was you spoke about onboarding previously.

Now most banks may take weeks, sometimes months to onboard a business.

We've already got it down to 24 hours because we're using AI to capture process all the forms make sure that accurate.

We've tested out the new AI driven software.

It has a 0% error rating so far and so by early next year we think it's going to go down to minutes in terms of onboarding a business the whole thing will be done processed every kind of uploading right now how we do transaction monitoring to check for money laundering etc and building a program around that it would it's the rated thing is huge.

So that's a very obvious place.

Another obvious place I would say that is is significant is our CTO Dan Black has said to me about six to eight weeks ago he's he.

He runs a team of 10 engineers and he said, I've never been concerned before about my job.

And he said, I'm still feeling okay about it now.

But he said it's only in this last month we now are no longer coding.

So in one, I think our code base is about 250,000 lines of code and in four days, and that's taking like two years to build up.

And in four days he added 20,000 lines of code.

We went through QA testing perfectly.

And he did it all himself using AI.

He wasn't writing the code, he was simply writing the prompts to our ability.

Now we run one week engineering sprints.

So if you ask, let's say one of our customers, August, and you ask for a new product or a new feature or indeed an integration going back to software, we can move exponentially quicker than we could just a few months ago.

And so that, that ability, that growth of the business and that's it's going to have three kind of impacts in terms of how we grow the business.

One, our cost base in terms of huge engineering teams will not increase massively because simply we're doing much more less.

Two, our ability to respond to customers needs in terms of either a product or a feature they want it will be rapid.

And three is AI will begin to start thinking independently about what other new products or features you would want independent of kind of getting customer feedback or ideation ourselves.

Okay, super interesting.

Do you think then within your business or within your space, AI could be the great leveler in the sense that you're a C. Four years in five years in how much of your business is like the marketing, the relationship.

Yeah, how much of it is?

You know what I'm trying to get at is like for example, save as a new entry into the market.

Can they catch up in terms of the code's that quick to replicate all this stuff or is it a relationship business still and a marketing business still?

I think time to market, I mean it took us a full year just to build our core engineering stack, right.

In terms of, in terms of a basic ledger of payments going in, payments going out.

So we built all our tech in house.

I think that time to market now has gone from a year down to probably six weeks.

It's that kind of speed, right?

To answer your question, I still think there is a lot of operational build out.

We need to go and get licenses, we need to put teams in place, etc.

But if your engineering now is rapidly so much faster, you can free up more cost and more management time for the Other areas.

So yes, it improves the whole, the whole pace.

Our marketing cost and our relationship are a factor of business, but they're a more modest factor of the kind of business.

Right.

And I think the great leveler, what you will see, you'll see just like.

So Bill Gates was on CNBC yesterday and he said it's going to be almost, it's a bigger impact on the Internet.

And I remember when he was on the Tonight show, gosh, like 25 years ago, maybe more and my dad playing the clip or showing it to me and he, and he, when he Bill Gates, his initial kind of biography, autobiography.

And Gates was better.

And we've been asked about oh you know, what about the Internet.

And it's just, literally the Internet was just coming, coming to life and he was like, oh, it's the next big thing that's going to change everything.

Right.

And the point, the comparison I would make is look how many things were built on top of the Internet from E commerce to social media, et cetera.

What I think you will have in terms of AI is you will have complete new products imagined.

And I think both the two pillars I would say our business will be built on going forward is AI and stablecoins.

So future financial products we built on stablecoins, they'll be using smart contracts.

The smart contracts, the risk rating will be all analyzed by an AI machine.

There will be no involvement in doing transaction monitoring, credit risk assessment, credit committees.

That is all gone.

There'll be human oversight over a number of systems built by, by AI and that will transform trade.

And one point I would segue into it all is I think that will have a huge impact in places like UAE where it's become such a trading hub because in so many businesses the volume of trade and the volume of commerce will just increase exponentially.

Yeah.

What's your advice then to business owners or people who are, who are running companies at the moment with AI Like AI is obviously a buzzword and everyone talks about it, but practically, you know, what's your advice to people who are running businesses?

Where should they be looking to to add this?

I think so.

I, I would, I would extend the same advice I would kind of give to our, that would, that we're using internally.

And so we're going to do a series B fund raising end of Q1 of next of next year.

So in about five months from now.

And you have got a kind of hiring freeze until then.

Right.

We're trying to keep our costs really tight, get a profitability, execute a Fundraising however three of our hires is we're going to build out a whole AI team and the AI team is to go through all every different aspect of business from pay operations to finance to the risk team and go right.

Complete change of systems please.

You know we will have an AI authentic approach in here to transform our processes, rip out the cost and create a scenario where our business can scale aggressively without needing a significant increase in human capital.

Right.

So I think that would be, I would say to any established business look around and get somebody, just bring them in team, one or two people to think about what's the AI process that you could immediately implement to strip out cost, improve efficiencies and stuff like on, on improve stuff like error checking.

So you know we've got a payops team and they're reconciling payments.

Human error is just way too high in that.

Right.

Doesn't matter how good they are.

And so and you'll, you're going to see that across multiple different industries or how the error rate drops from everything from surgery to car crashes because you've got an AI machine defining the kind of safety parameters.

So I'd say that would be the one internally and then externally if you're looking to use providers tick kind of providers that have an AI first approach because the value add they're going to have in terms of services and features for external suppliers you're using will be significant.

Has your five year plan then changed completely since these use of AI within the business like have your projections just rapidly increased in terms of what I.

Think the projections I always put were probably slightly to address than any answer they probably haven't changed.

They probably just got slightly more justified.

I think the strategy has shifted Augusta.

I think the ability for us I've been I think the stablecoin and AI becoming two key pillars and seeing how much of it wasn't hype and the demand we're seeing from customers across that kind of space for a smart business, a business built on kind of a new front financial ecosystem effectively a FinTech 3.0.

I think that demand is so acute that yes we are going to grow launch in more markets than we previously planned and I think our growth trajectory will be faster in those markets.

If you're a business watching this and they, they're, they're wanting to do transactions, they're wanting to, they, they found this interesting the stablecoin piece when down the line are they, you know how easy it is easier is it for them to kind of start using hut it.

Will probably take you less than a day to go live with us as a business platform.

And we've got a very, what we call treasury essentials, just accounts and payment setup is leading in the market in the uae.

And then secondly, we're adding further features around that all the time in terms of, and in terms of stablecoins in the future.

But we've already done the kind of engineering, the work around it, so we're in a.

We're in a leading position to be able to offer that.

Interesting.

And what, what got you interested in starting your own thing in the first place?

Like, I know you were in banking and in finance and, you know, you obviously had this idea, but what drove.

You to do this?

It was complete accident.

It wasn't planned.

And I thought Dubai is a very good base to place myself, not necessarily intending to stay actually in Dubai, but looking to go to another market across the Middle east or Africa, and were ideally more in an impact investment environment.

And then when I was here, it's like, why has nobody launched a FinTech in the UAE?

It's got a huge market, it's rapidly growing, it's got so many roads into other markets across the region where there's a complete lack of penetration.

And I was like, well, you know, could I do this?

And I started doing research.

Then I had this license coming out and I was like, I'm actually, I'm gonna, I'm gonna go.

I'm.

I'm gonna go launch this.

And that's.

That's what happened.

And.

And then I got into an accelerator, which then kind of validated myself and validated the plan, and then we took fundraising, fundraising from there.

But to be quite frank, I tripped into it.

It wasn't a well thought through plan.

And you've obviously been in finance in this space a while now.

Yeah.

So what's kept you in the game?

Like, do you have any advice for people who are in very stressful jobs, like being a founder, being a CEO?

I know it's a very stressful industry.

Like, what do you, what do you do out of work to stay in the game longer?

Well, I would say there's probably two things.

There's the professional kind of systems that have kept business alive, and it's definitely been in a very tenuous position before when something hasn't launched.

We are too early in the market, as was the case through 22 to kind of 24.

But this last year, you know the capabilities that we needed came online, UAE came off the gray list last year etc.

And so the businesses has grown up multiple in terms of revenues just within the last six months.

And so what heads our larger networks having a really strong venture capital funding behind us.

Our LE vcs are run ventures from Salt Lake City but we've also got other VCs like Olive Tree I from Boston, ICU out of London, Stormbreaker Silicon Valley and they were enormously supportive and they saw the long term value and so I think that's why it's essential to be robust but also have a BC fund on a cap table as a opposed to some alternative funding like angels are good but not too many angels because they may not have, they may not have money to follow on when you're in challenging times when that plan hasn't come off as is often the case.

As often the case more than not would say though they can professional systems, personal systems outside Try and get a good sleep and try and work out and stay active to try and distract your mind so it can arrest.

At the weekends I try and go to the gym and I've been poor at doing so but in the last kind of year or so I've got a lot better in using some of the kind of more exciting outdoor stuff you can do in the uae.

So on Saturday I've been there before but I think it's the coolest thing ever is the surf.

Abu Dhabi this is where they create this artificial surfing wave in Abu Dhabi.

Not the cheapest activity but it's the coolest thing I've done in the UAE and it's much cheaper than going and getting on a plane going on a surf holiday.

So surfing on Saturday and then as the temperature cools I'm going rock climbing up in Russell Coma on Sunday and this incredible rock climbing valley called starda, like UA's largest mountain.

And I believe the UAE military bolted all the walls so you can sport climb pretty high about 300 meter climbing, climbing walls.

And so that's a great thing to get out of kernel out of the office and go someplace and think about something quite different.

What what's the purpose then long term for yourself and what like what keeps you going?

Yeah, you know I wouldn't trade my worst day in a startup for my best day working in banking or another in a corporate job.

And that's.

And that's just my personal preference.

Yes it can be absolutely grinding at times but it's enormously exciting and empowering and I think a lot of the kind of team have that kind of vibe.

You know, you just get through in a few months what you would, you wouldn't do in a few years in a more established kind of business.

Yeah, it comes with a lot of risk and a lot of pressure and that's not for everyone.

And people need to assess that whether they're a founder or whether they're just in the senior team.

Our senior team are incredible.

We're lucky to have them but they work very hard and you know there's times when I, when I, when we've had open conversations about burnout.

So the, the excitement of what you do day to day.

I've got no interest in doing anything else.

I've got no interest in selling out, retire, you know, what would I do?

I think I'd like to build hub for the long term.

I see a significant gap in the markets across the uae, across Europe and across the wider region for a much more evolved 3.0 fintech looking to address some of those friends around AI and stablecoin we discussed and you know, where could that go?

I think with the success and the growth of the capital markets in the UAE and also maybe the capital markets in, in let's say someplace like London, you could look at an IPO listing whether it's in one exchange or indeed a dual listing.

So it's a long term.

Long term might be the plan will.

Be to ipo I'd say about starting this.

Yeah.

Okay.

And, and you, you mentioned that you're coming up to a VC round like a series B.

How, what, what are you wanting from that?

Like will you be bringing in original investors to put more in?

Will you be bringing in people from outside?

You know, for anybody watching this, you know who's an investor.

Would you, are you, are you opening up to conversations now or what's, what's that?

Yeah, they're starting.

Well starting now.

So the strategy would be augusta.

I think our existing investors have been incredible.

They'll invest pro rata I think the idea is we are holding co Delaware C Corp.

So hubpay Inc. Is technically American and that holds owns the UAE business owns the Pakistan business.

Although in the future businesses internationally preferenced almost likely based on municipal conversations.

I think it'll probably be a US investor lead but I can't say that the surf him the there are other investors from the region, whether it's Saudi or whether it's the UAE who are keen to bring on board that have some bit more regional expertise and some Insight, but our position is our business in Q1 will hit profitability and so the capital and the kind of investors we need are ready to go.

Take this business that's no longer a startup, but it's now a scale up to see how quickly it can scale, how many countries have been launching and how, how much of an international player it can become.

So it certainly be like targeting that venture capital kind of funding, but the kind of growth stage investors and we've already, you know, this is a good thing about LinkedIn and Crunchbase.

You know, guys, you know, investors from Silicon Valley to Mumbai can find your details quite quickly and we've had quite a few reach outs and we've had a conversation say, well this is where we're at.

You can send information and you can track how we're doing and see if, see if there's a mutual fit.

Amazing.

And your presence right now, physical presence is in London and Dubai?

Yeah, I split my time at the moment.

It's more Dubai.

I think it'll be more international going forward.

Yeah.

Okay, interesting.

Well, it's been amazing to chat and thank you so much for your time and I look forward to seeing, seeing what you do with everything.

I look forward to tapping up at Series B to help us with the recruitment.

Augustus, thank you very much for your time.

Doesn't sound like you do too much.

With all the AI.

Absolutely.

I'm sure as we go deeper on the FX market, some of the smart traders, you know, and some of the quants would be, would be most value at.

But yeah, look forward to it.

Thank you.

Thank you very much for your time.

Thanks for your time, Kevin.

Thank you.

Thanks.

It.