Guest: David Hori, Principal at Topline Operators

Most acquisitions don’t fail because the numbers were wrong; they fail because the execution was. In this episode, we sit down with David Hori, a distinguished expert in operational transitions, to pull back the curtain on the "messy middle" of M&A, the post-acquisition integration. David argues that while a deal might look flawless on a spreadsheet, its ultimate success rests entirely on the shoulders of the people within the organisation and the culture they inhabit.

We discuss why transparency is essential during a transition, strategies for preventing the 'shock and disillusionment' that often follows a deal announcement, and the necessity of treating cultural due diligence as equally important as financial auditing.

Key Takeaways:

• The Execution Gap: The majority of acquisitions falter not during negotiation or financial structuring, but in the execution phase following the transaction.
• The Transparency Currency: A lack of transparency during the acquisition process creates disarray. Proactive engagement with key personnel before the deal closes is essential for stability.
• Personnel as the Pillar: Retaining key talent is the single most critical factor for success. This hinges on existing leaders' willingness to embrace and trust new management.
• Cultural Due Diligence: Misalignment between a "dynamic/innovative" culture and a "traditional/stable" one can be fatal. A thorough cultural assessment must be part of the pre-acquisition process.
• The Power of First Impressions: Simple, deliberate steps, such as thoughtful welcome communications, set the emotional and logistical tone for a seamless transition.

Notable Quotes:

"The success of an acquisition hinges on the willingness of key individuals to embrace new leadership."

"The true failure of a deal frequently manifests not in the negotiation, but in the inadequate integration of personnel and corporate culture."

In This Episode, We Discuss:

• The Myth of the "Paper Deal": Why a perfect financial model doesn't guarantee a successful company.
• Mitigating Employee Shock: Strategies for leadership to prepare their teams for a transition to avoid "Day 1" disillusionment.
• Building a Culture of Trust: How to align the values and expectations of two distinct entities to create a cohesive organisation.
• Real-World Success: David shares an illustrative example of an acquisition that achieved near-100% staff retention through thoughtful integration strategies.

Resources & Links:

Topline Operators:

https://www.toplineops.com/

Connect with David Hori:

• LI: https://www.linkedin.com/in/iamdavidhori/
• IG: https://www.instagram.com/thedavidhori/
• YT: https://www.youtube.com/@thedavidhori
• TT: https://www.tiktok.com/@thedavidhori

Welcome to another episode of Connect With Purpose.

Today I'm joined by David Horry, someone who's built his reputation around buying businesses and more importantly, making them actually work after the deal is done. So thanks so much for being on today, David.

Pleasure to be here. Thank you for having me.

Yeah, absolutely.

So I think something that I want to just dive right into is, you know, we've spoken before and you've mentioned that what essentially goes wrong after many acquisitions is integration. And deals don't usually fail on paper. It's actually they fail after they close.

So I think something that would be really useful for the audience to understand is why do you think that? Like, can you maybe give us an example of maybe a deal that you've seen that has looked perfect and then not. Not worked once it's once.

Once a deal's happened?

Yeah, absolutely.

So I think one of the things, you know, you mentioned it not working on paper, obviously, lots of people fall victim to, you know, not penciling in, you know, enough working capital or things like that.

But I think one that's kind of sneaky is that owners, executives may not be accustomed to being very transparent with their team, and that obviously persists when they're thinking about a transaction like selling the business. And so a lot of the leadership team and key employees are blindsided when it's announced.

And that's like, the moment that it's inked right Then owners are sharing this news a lot of the time for the first time with these people. And that causes quite the shockwave to go through the organization.

And so one of the things that I am regularly counseling owners on is, is there a piece of this that we can bring your leadership team into your key employees?

Because often a deal will actually hinge on a key person, a key couple of leaders staying and being willing to work under new leadership in order to make the deal successful. That's a huge one. The retention of team and leaders.

Interesting. And at what moment do you think this retention of the key people comes at risk? Is it whilst the deal's going on? Is it once a deal's closed?

Is it maybe a few months after it's closed? When do you tend to see these. These cracks appearing?

You know, again, I think people will get, like, they'll recognize with hindsight. Oh, that was. Yeah, they were asking for a lot of reports and data that they normally didn't.

And there was, like, a lot of secret meetings or blocks on the calendar. But they truly are blindsided when they show up. And they say, okay, We've got great news, right? Great news. We just sold the company.

And like they're trying to process that and is this good news? Things like that. And so, you know, one of the integrations that, and acquisitions that I've been a part of that was tremendously successful.

They thought a lot about that first moment, that first impression.

And so actually before the deal was even inked, the executive team went from location to location across the US and filmed a welcoming video that gave them a flavor of the team and the different offices and themselves, most importantly, and had a plan for articulating the, the growth that this acquisition was going to enable. And that was a really strong footing to launch the conversation into. It's like they're reeling and they're like, is this good news?

And then this video's playing with smiling faces and like, oh, we're excited to welcome you in, you know, like, so even if you can't be transparent with the team that that's being acquired, you can do things and put them in place to help with that from, from the moment that, that the deal signed and then afterwards too. And in that particular acquisition we had some really interesting strategies to ensure we retained up to 98% of that team.

Well, and what kind of strategies do you also think work? Like for example, I know a lot of people use things like equity options or long term incentive schemes. Do you think these things work?

There's a reason why they're widespread and I don't know if they're the best way to retain people because I've seen a lot of kind of, you know, what empty husks sitting at a computer post acquisition, right where they have those handcuffs and there's a strong financial incentive for them to stay, but their heart's not in it or you know, half the time they're looking for another opportunity because they don't trust and know that there's going to be opportunity for them or you know, the new mission doesn't align with their values. So I like to have these conversations and it depends on the size of an acquisition, right?

If it's hundreds of people, you know, you're not going to be able to meet with every single person that's coming into your organization, but you can certainly meet with the leaders and if it's a small one, you should make every effort to connect with each person.

Understand like what, what's your skill set, what's your aspirations, what are you driving towards and what are your goals professionally so that you can try to map that to the Strategy and also highlight for them things that are in the roadmap that might engage them better.

And that's where I focus more of my energy versus some, you know, convoluted compensation structure that's going to keep them, you know, handcuffed to the organization.

Okay. So it's always about the people. It's about the retention of the correct people when you buy a business.

More than anything else, I think more than anything else. And that's kind of under the assumption that when I'm buying a business, there's some fairly decent systems in place. Right.

Because if you don't have those systems, yeah, the team, you know, yeah. You might have bigger problems.

And when you look to buying businesses, do you look at, you know, do you get concerned when for example, you may have a fairly big team, but there's a very, there's a very, very few, like a few people that are excellent, really running the show. And then it's like that classic, you know, 20% are brilliant, 80% aren't that good.

Does that concern you or do you like, do you buy the business with the thought process that you'll come in and you'll strip the organization down?

I try to approach it with an open mind because I might have a theory around the people or the team and their capabilities, but it has to be validated and it would be a mistake to make an acquisition and then immediately implement some kind of plan that hasn't been pre validated. And I do look at key man risk. Right.

If, if the success of the business hinges on one or two people, I'm going to want to find ways to mitigate that risk, whether by like hiring other individuals to offset that or putting in place better processes to document what those individuals are doing along with financial incentives and everything else that I can do, engaging them in every possible way. But I try not to change too much post acquisition. That's where a lot of people go off the rails is, you know, they see the possibility.

And a lot of times these people are visionaries that are acquiring companies. They see this grand vision and they're in this huge rush to implement it.

And then when things change for the worse or for the better, you have no idea which change actually affected that. And you know, which people are most important, which people are not, are detracting from what you're trying to build.

And so come in, observe the current state, understand it, and then you can start to validate a lot of those things.

Or maybe you're going to come up with new ideas and recognize, you know, oh, I anticipated this being a problem and risk a bottleneck and actually we should focus elsewhere.

So what does the first 30 days look like then once you buy a business, what is the 30 day plan for you? You're obviously not wanting to make too much change. So what do you tend to go in and do?

And it's about creating goodwill.

There's a lot of like administrative things that are, that are happening to ensure that people again have what they need as they transition ent like insurance and things like that that are going to create stability and security for them. And then it's about those conversations. I want to have those conversations right away of again, what are your professional goals?

What brought you to the organization originally?

And here's how that potentially fits into the future vision that I have for an organization and where you can channel those things and where you're going to be challenged in the ways you want to be challenged. I want to paint that picture right really quickly and gather that data so that then we can again create follow ons once.

Also, you know, you're having those conversations, you're going to find some, some, you know, skeletons in the closet as it were, that didn't come up in due diligence.

And so that's an important place, you know, when you're talking to them to say like, I'm sure you've, you've had thoughts for years about, you know, like, what could be better, what would make things easier for your department, like give me those things. And you start to identify like, wow, I thought that day one this was going to be a priority.

Turns out, you know, maybe we have a massive hole in our, in our funnel or something like that, that, that then comes up.

And whose job do you think that is?

When you integrate an organization and an acquisition happens, who do you, whose job do you think it is to have these conversations and how many people do you speak to? So for example, say it's a huge firm, how many are you talking to and whose job is it to have these chats?

Yeah, so if we're going with a big firm, the answer is you can have an entire team spun up around this. Again, one of the best acquisition and integrations I've been a part of, they had what they called the pmo.

So they were people that were within the acquiring organization that had full time jobs, but they were designated as the three primary people across various responsibility sectors to drive the integration and post acquisition. And then we also spun up again internal employees of the acquiring entity to be culture ambassadors.

So we found the people that were really excited about the mission and you know, were committed long term to the company and we said, hey, we have this opportunity for you to be culture ambassadors.

And we trained them up and they were paired off one to many with people that were coming into the organization to give them that not just warm welcome and an immediate connection.

Because I think that's something that gets kind of ignored for a long time is an acquisition happens and nothing changes for months, maybe even years. And you never reach across the aisle and meet, you know, your, your, your counterpart. And so they're already establishing connections.

And then the, the, the most important thing I think that these culture ambassadors were able to do is they have all of this, you know, tribal knowledge, right? And like they know who's who in the zoo and where to go and find these things.

And that relieved a lot of pressure on operations and HR and things like that to have these culture ambassadors engage with these people and say, oh you, you hit a snag. Oh, you should talk to so and so or that that's, you know, you go here and find that information and so it can be done and done well and at a.

Very personally, if you think about it from the outset. But I know that those executives also connected with dozens of individuals across the organization daily.

And so that was, that became a big part of the focus is just connecting with people, having important conversations, getting to know them, ensuring that they're getting multiple opportunities to hear about the vision, to see where they fit into it. It was a massive, massive focus.

Do you think that when an acquisition happens, sometimes the fallout can also be from the firm that's doing the acquiring. Do you think fallout can happen on that side as well?

Absolutely. Yeah. And I think that's a very common scenario, right?

So especially, you know, it can, I see it tend to happen with these giant private equity roll ups where, you know, you're, you're, you're bringing together a bunch of companies that maybe don't have a lot in common for the purpose of, you know, trimming the fat and selling it upstream to somebody else, you know, artificially juicing the numbers.

And that's a difficult thing to, you know, like I guess mission or End goal or North Star is like, hey, we're going to really, you know, trim the fat here and then make it valuable to somebody else. And we're not really sure how you fit into that. That's difficult for anybody to, to get in line with.

And beyond that, I do tend to think that Culture alignment plays a big role in acquisitions and it's often not looked at. So I'll. I'll make, you know, one thing that if you're growing by acquisition, that's maybe a strategy of yours.

You're probably on the spectrum erring towards more innovative. You think outside the box, you're taking action.

And if you go and acquire businesses on the other end of the spectrum, that's more towards status quo. Steady Eddie.

Just keep selling more, working harder, and then you smash those two companies together, you're setting yourself up for a tremendous culture shock, no matter how you package it, no matter how you frame it, because you've inherited a group of people that are not used to change, that in fact don't like it, and they've joined a company around, we know what to expect. It never changes. And now you've got all these people like, this is normal. This is what we do, this is how we grow, this is how we win.

And so culture is something that I look at a lot.

Do you think it's possible to pair two cultures that are so different? Do you think that's possible?

Or do you think that should be a really big warning sign for a company trying to acquire a company that is just too different?

You have to look at it really, really honestly. Can it be done? Yes. And again, in an acquisition, there's inevitable churn, there's inevitable mismatches.

You know, even if culturally maybe, you know, like you're both innovative, there's still going to be people that aren't on board with the mission or are going to try to detract from what you're building. And you're going to have to identify those and support them in finding something else. And, you know, also bring in new people.

Whether it's replacement or net new, you're going to have to bring in new people to help bridge that gap. And, you know, one of the specific groups that I see struggle with this the most are sales teams.

Actually, sales teams tends to find a method that, that pays their bills. Right. They get really good at selling a certain way and they don't want to change it because that can make.

Create some lumpiness in their revenue or make it disappear. And so often, even if the.

The cultures are the same, but now you have a new method or a new playbook for selling, you're gonna have to replace a lot of your sales team that Gudu just acquired.

Wow. And that's challenging because that's where the revenue comes from. So that's. That must be. Yeah. Okay, what then do you do to accept?

Obviously, there's culture, there's these conversations with people, but is there anything else that organizations can be thinking of about structuring things so that the firm that they're acquiring talent stays? Is there anything else these firms can be doing?

Let's see.

I mean, we talked about financial incentives, engaging people with challenges that they want to be challenged in painting a picture for them to go into the future. I think, Again, being transparent, if your leadership style allows for that, or anywhere that you can bring transparency to it.

That's something that I counsel executives on and I bring to, you know, transactions. I don't ever want to overstate or misstate something because I am constantly investing in trust.

And if there isn't trust there, it kind of, again, matters less what you say, what incentives you put in place.

And so, you know, this has been a difficult line to hold where, yes, we are absolutely focused on growth and we are acquiring this entity because it's going to enable us to expand. And we definitely want to highlight that. But I'm not going to sit there and tell them that everybody's job is safe. Right.

That wouldn't be, I think, an overstatement. And I'm also not going to try to mask them that this is going to be really difficult and painful.

You know, there's going to be pain associated with this and we're going to work through this and we've thought about some of the things that we can do to help, but we don't have the best ideas and we need your help to do that. But no, it's going to be challenging and we're going to struggle to figure it out and we're going to get some things wrong.

So bringing that transparency and that human element I think serves people because I think many leaders think they need to have this grand vision and, and also have all the best ideas and also have all the answers and everything. Sunshine.

They shield the team from bad news, from challenge, from, you know, the reality that this is messy and difficult or mistakes were made and you're not going to get the best of your team and the trust ultimately, if that's your approach.

And when you've come to buy, buy a firm and you've got, for example, a founder or a few people who are founders in an organization, how do you structure a deal so that they are. You are essentially enforcing that they make sure that this works. Like how.

How many years do you tend to keep them in the organization or how do you structure a deals to A deal to protect yourself of a founder just leaving.

Yeah, I mean, you certainly want to tie it to give yourself the most Runway possible. And again, ideally they're gonna found a channel where they get to again, continue building on the dream that set them in motion in the first place.

And that's not possible and always likely. Some people are just serial founders, right?

They just, they've got all kinds of ideas and they get it up and running and they can't wait to start building the next one. So not realistic.

And so, you know, my advice is, yes, let's structure it so that they're incentivized financially, career wise, to be engaged and continue building for two, three, maybe four years. But again, I'm going to be proactive. I'm not going to wait around and bet that they're going to hang around.

I'm going to create redundancies and ensure that I'm getting downloads out of their head and that they're imparting that stuff that's critical to the business, to their team and have mechanisms for capturing that.

That way if they decide like, I don't care, there's no dollar amount or no title or, you know, number of team members and resources you can give me towards this project that's going to keep me here. Okay, well then now we know. And we're not going to totally bomb because you're, you're, you're, you're heading off to a different venture.

How much do you, when you look to, when you look at acquiring something, how much weight do you give to the people in that organization versus the systems or the data or the IP they have? Like, how do you weight it? How do you value it?

Because if so much of this is a human thing and you can lose these people, the good people, you can, you can lose these people. Like, do you, are you, are you, are you essentially reducing the value of the company based on that or how are you valuing organizations in that way?

I tend to value businesses through the lens of risk.

And so if I'm looking at an organization where there's a tremendous amount of risk associated with people or a key person, I'll factor that in to the valuation or I'll need to structure the deal around this owner gets significantly less if the GM leaves within a certain time frame. Right. I want to tie the outcome so that I can bounce back.

I can take that revenue hit temporarily because the GM left with all that knowledge and I'm basically building from scratch. But I'm not going to get torpedoed by it. But the answer is it depends, right? I'm literally looking at an.

I don't look at just owner operator companies. In fact, often I'm like, man, you're trying to sell me a job, not a business. Like you don't have employees.

You know, I don't care, you know, about your systems and process. There's no team. But I'm actively engaged with.

An owner that has zero team is just an owner operator because I see the ability to with how simple his business is. There's like zero risk on that side of things.

And I can go and very confidently hire the team I need to take over what he's doing and run with the processes that exist. So there's always exceptions. There's not a hard line rule, rule or metric that I can give you on that.

What deal have you worked on in your career that taught you all these lessons? Or has it been one like many, many deals? Or has there been one particular deal that maybe didn't go so well that you learned a huge amount from?

I think I did learn a lot. I know I keep referencing this private equity acquisition that I was a part of and I learned a lot about based on what went right with it.

I haven't had a lot go sideways, but I also have seen a number that were not that meaningful for a long time again.

So one of the first acquisitions I was a part of was with a global law firm and they acquired a group of law firms in Australia and they wanted to be able to add Australia to the, to the map. Right.

And that was one of those where years went by and there still wasn't true collaboration and they weren't making the most of the opportunity to, you know, engage them and cross sell and, you know, leverage their expertise and their brand. They were kind of just left on an island by themselves. And then we're like, good, now they're part of us.

So that's one that again, as a people person, I was reaching out and making connections and seeing that they weren't, they were feeling like they were on an island. And in fact, you know, they were and also recognizing they were tremendously underutilized.

And you know, part of that is at big companies that happens. But I think that's a tremendous mistake.

You know, if you just want to put something on the map, that's one of those things that, that makes the deal at risk. Right? It could be been a great deal, Great, great win for both firms.

But if you're not going to integrate them, give them, you know resources and, and engage them. You know, you could slowly lose all of that.

How do you know when integration is going, is going well? Is that because revenue's gone up a lot or is it just the people? Or how do you, how do you assess that integration is going, is going?

How you, how you plan?

I guess maybe I kind of always assume that it's, it's going off the rails. And I work really hard. Like they never. You never. There's no destination where I'm like, we got there, we're safe. Right?

I'm constantly, again, I mentioned trust, I'm investing in trust. But you know, just because we get past the 30 day mark, the 60 day mark, the 90 day, six months, I don't ever take my foot off the gas.

And you just can't.

And you know, it just the, the focus and the emphasis shifts over time where it's like, I gotta build trust so that they want to stay and I gotta show them that there's something worth staying for. Okay, now I'm shifting into, I gotta deliver on that.

I can't just tell them that we're gonna build something really meaningful and they're gonna be engaged professionally. I've got to give them opportunities to be engaged.

I've got to have that map back to something or I, that I need to support them going elsewhere because I can't deliver on that and I can have a transparent conversation with them. And so there are metrics like retention we've talked about already, the number of people that stay for an extended period of time post acquisition.

Certainly then when you're able to reduce costs and revenue, increase revenue because of cross selling and bundling and other things, maybe you acquired a new geography or a new service line or something like that, and now you can cross sell to customers.

Those are, those are indications that, yes, we were expecting that we would be able to sell more or that cross selling would have this impact to our revenue or bottom line. And now we're seeing that that's good. So those are some things.

And what, what's your purpose in work? How, what got you into all of this? Originally,.

Great question.

I got into business originally because I wanted to help people and I started in HR because I found, you know, the business application of helping people thrive professionally and personally was in hr.

And coming out of my gosh, the third acquisition, third exit via acquisition, I was about to jump into my fourth startup and I realized, I think I want to do this for myself. I've been building other people's dreams and Now I want to go build for myself. So that's one driver I've enjoyed building on somebody else's vision.

I have some ideas that I want to go and execute on. So that was one. And it's still under the umbrella of helping people.

And actually, I've accidentally stumbled into coaching and advising business owners.

I never set out to be a coach or advisor, but I was speaking with so many business owners about potentially buying their company, who I found one had no idea how the process worked, what to expect. And also I realized, you know, one of the things that I really dig deeply on is why. Why are you selling? Why are we having this conversation? Why now?

And what I found is that these people were just actually stuck. You know, they tried a couple things. You know, one that comes to mind, Jeff, he's like, gosh, can I be honest?

I've just never broken through the $3 million revenue ceiling. And what he doesn't realize is that there are things that we can do to. To break through that.

And selling isn't the right reason, you know, like, oh, I can't break through the $3 million ceiling. I'm gonna sell. That's a terrible reason to sell. Like, all the hard yards are behind him. He has a profitable, successful business.

He gets to take two months off a year and live in Florida and sit in the sunshine like, you've got a great business if you've got gas in the tank, and a desire like, let's. Let's partner together and get you past that, because you need a new playbook. You've done all the little tiny optimizing to get you to that ceiling.

And that's why it feels like you can't break through because you can't optimize your way to 10 million. There's a new playbook that you need to. To engage in order to be able to get to where you need to be.

And so I've accidentally gotten into that, all of it again, because I want to help people. I want them to thrive. I want to support people.

And I think the second thing is $14 trillion is going to be switching hands in the next 10 years because of the baby boomers. Many of them are business owners.

And beyond there being this financial opportunity, we have an obligation to our communities, to our economy, to our society to make the most of that. Because if that just shutters and leaves and exits the economy, we're going to be in a tremendously difficult place.

And so I think there's an obligation to help them, to engage them to have a plan and make sure that what they built over years and decades doesn't just again slowly wind down and eventually close their doors, which is what's happening to most of them right now.

And do you think that's because when people take over companies, they, they. It wasn't their dream, it wasn't their purpose, and that's why they can't necessarily make it work?

Or was it because they weren't necessarily cut from the same cloth as the person who scaled that business originally?

Sorry, I'm not sure I'm understanding the question. Can you repeat it?

Sure, sure. So when, when somebody, when somebody takes over a business, so for example, they. A business, why do you think these often, these often fail?

Is that, is that because it just wasn't their passion, it wasn't that purpose, or do you think that they just don't understand it? Or what do you think the issues, where the issues lie there with people inheriting these things.

There are a number of reasons why businesses fail post acquisition.

One of them, though, and again, I see this happening a lot because people focus on the financial opportunity of this $14 trillion trading hands, and there's this kind of prevalent message and a lot of marketing aimed at people that are maybe working W2 jobs, saying this is your ticket out of a cubicle job. Buy a business and instantly, you know, you go from being, you know, a cog to the owner, you call the shots. And that's very seductive, right?

To somebody that feels like they're stuck and not getting where they want to on the timeline they want to, you know, it's kind of like the cheat code, right?

And I think it's, it's not untrue that you can go out and buy a business and become the owner, but if you don't have the skill sets to support it, or it's not in a vertical that you have expertise in, or you don't have line of sight on how you add value post acquisition, that's where I think a lot, a lot struggle. And you know, again, there's just tremendous inexperience engaging in M and A right now.

There's again, some of the pitfalls that I've highlighted already. And then I think many people, you know, you see this in their personal lives maybe, but then it's also how they run their business.

They run it on the margin, right? So or exceed what they can actually do.

And so they're making these massive capital expenditures from day one that then when the J curve hits post acquisition, they're like, oh, we don't have enough working capital, or, you know, we're running it. So, you know, I was talking to a business owner literally last week. I was like, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

So, like, 10% of your revenue is going to this, this line item, like, where. How do you make any money? When. When, you know, you're lucky if you get 13% margin, like, how do you make any money? He's like, yeah, it's.

It's pretty hard. We're actually not profitable, but we're next year. You know, we're in, like, based on what? You don't have a plan.

Like, that's really alarming to me that you bought a company and it's not profitable, and you think that just working more hours is going to produce a different result. So those are some things that I would share.

Interesting.

And this is obviously a business which, you know, when you're in this world of acquiring companies, helping people acquire companies, it's a stressful world. Right. How do you. How do you. How have you stayed in this game so long and continue to thrive?

What do you do outside of work that differentiates yourself? How do you. How do you deal with stress? How do you. How do you. How have you managed to play the long game in this industry?

Yeah, part of it is being on mission. You know, I, Prior to deciding to go and focus on buying businesses, you know, I, I'm a believer. I'm a Christian.

And so I said, God, I have these skills and desires and experiences, but you take them and use them how you want. And I do feel like I have this M and a passion for a reason. So I'm trusting that and moving towards that, believing he's going to bless that.

And then I also, when it comes to my calendar, I block first and foremost, the most important things. And it is not buying businesses. The first thing that goes into my calendar is dropping off my daughter at school and picking her up.

And before that happens, you know, before any meeting has any opportunity to be scheduled again, I'm doing the things that keep me fed. I got to make sure that I get fed. And so I'm reading my Bible, I'm going to the gym. Those are the things that, like, make this sustainable.

And one, if I can be transparent, that's actually, I'm struggling with right now and embracing and learning about is just not getting sucked into the M and A world that everybody else lives in and doing it the way that they do it. You know, I, I bump elbows with a lot of people that are tremendously serious and very sober and stressed. And they wear a collared shirt.

And you know, like, I, I was falling into that and being like, that's what I gotta do. And I'm like, no, why? Why? I own this business. I.

If they're gonna sell to me, it's not because I'm wearing a collared shirt or don't wear a hat, you know, like. And so I want fun. Like, my marketing has to be playful for me to feel great about sustainably creating it.

So I'm bringing playfulness, I'm bringing fun. I'm being me with these crazy doodles in my background. If anybody's watching this and not listening, my wall's covered with my doodles.

And that, I think has been tremendously life giving in my journey.

I love that. I love that. So bringing yourself to a normally quite strict and strict business. I like that. That's awesome.

And I know that you mentioned to me obviously before today that you're launching something pretty cool at the moment. So. Yeah. Would you like to tell the listeners about that?

Thank you for remembering. I so appreciate that. Yes, I would love to.

So again, I've realized that one of the biggest challenges that many of these business owners that are coming to a retirement age have, not just those, but in general even, is that they have no idea where to start when it comes to thinking about selling their business. They have no idea what's involved in the process, who they're going to talk to, the things like that.

And again, I want to help as many people as I can. And so I have launched recently a weekly webinar for those business owners.

And I share the top things that people, business owners that sell and don't lose their sanity and don't leave their team feeling like they were left high and dry and have less regrets. What do they do differently?

And then I also leave time at the end to answer individual owner questions because everybody has a little bit of nuance or one burning question that they want to ask. And so I'm able to answer those live. So weekly webinar on Thursdays.

I'm happy to share a link for you to share with your audience, but it just gives you kind of sheds light on the landscape of what's involved in selling your business. Whether you decide to sell your business or not, either way it's going to help your business.

That sounds amazing. I will definitely be definitely becoming. I think that's great. Awesome. Yeah.

Well, thank you so much for your time, David and I look forward to seeing all your future continued success. And thank you for coming on today.

Esther, thank you for sharing your platform with me, and I'm excited to see what you continue to build across the globe. It's tremendously impressive, and I love what you're doing, so thank you.

Thank you.