Howard Tam is an Urban Planner, a proud foodie, and the founder of Eat More Scarborough food tours. Through immersive culinary experiences, Howard is championing culinary tourism while shining a light on the incredible diversity and stories within one of Toronto’s most vibrant neighbourhoods.

In this tasty episode of Hyper Local, we chomp into:

• The power of culinary tourism, how it supports local restaurants, and why we urgently need to do more.
• How shared meals and food tours help combat loneliness by bringing people together to socialize, connect, and build genuine community.
• Celebrating Scarborough’s incredible culinary diversity and the immigrant entrepreneurs behind it, and their incredible stories.
• Reclaiming and amplifying hyper-local narratives through food and storytelling.
• Using culture + food as tools for economic and social impact — turning “suburbs” into must-visit destinations.
• Collaborations with plazaPOPS, Destination Scarborough, and BIAs like the Young BIA.
• And much more!

Howard’s message is clear: Great cities aren’t just built, they’re tasted, shared, and told through the people who live in them. When we eat together, we fight isolation and strengthen the social fabric of our communities.

This episode is a must-listen for anyone passionate about food, community development, economic development, placemaking, food entrepreneurship, or using culinary tourism to create more connected, thriving neighbourhoods.

Now some work for YOU! What’s one hyper-local restaurant, spot, or shared food experience in your community that deserves way more attention? Or share a time when a meal brought people together and reduced that sense of loneliness. Drop it in the comments, let’s celebrate the power of food to connect everyone.

#HyperLocalPodcast #EatMoreScarborough #CulinaryTourism #Scarborough #Toronto #FoodTours #CommunityStories #Placemaking #EconomicDevelopment #CombatLoneliness #Urbanism #CityBuilding #Ontario #SupportLocalRestaurants #HyperLocalPod #EcDev

Welcome to Hyperlocal, a podcast dedicated to

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inspiring economic developers, job

creators, and community champions.

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I'm your host, Mason Ainsworth.

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Speaker: Howard Tam is a major foodie,

and today we are gonna explore down

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the rabbit hole of culinary tourism.

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We're gonna talk about the

best restaurants to eat at.

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We're gonna talk about how food and

economic development go hand-in-hand, not

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only to get you something good to eat, but

also to get some more economic development

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happening within your community.

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Mason Ainsworth: Before we get

into today's episode, I wanted

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Now let's get into it.

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Howard, thank you so much for taking

the time to join me on Hyperlocal Today.

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Howard: Really great to be here.

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Yeah.

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Thanks for having me, Jason.

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Mason Ainsworth: My absolute pleasure.

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Uh, so I know usually we hop

right into the origin story and

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trust me we're gonna get there.

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But I also had some fun little rapid

style questions, uh, that a friend had

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sent to me in regards to food, because

we're gonna be talking about food and

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in the food sector a little bit today.

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Uh, so just off the cuff, you

gotta pick one or the other.

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Okay.

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Howard: Alright, let's do

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Mason Ainsworth: it.

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Okay.

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So salty or sweet,

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Howard: salty.

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Mason Ainsworth: Coffee or tea,

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Howard: tea,

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Mason Ainsworth: dine in, or takeout,

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Howard: dine in

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Mason Ainsworth: street

food or fine dining,

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Howard: street food,

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Mason Ainsworth: early

breakfast or a late night snack.

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Howard: Depends on the

context, but I do like both.

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Mason Ainsworth: Okay.

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Spicy food, love it or not so much?

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It love it.

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Love it.

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Me too.

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Me too.

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I'm a big fan of, uh, spicy,

dessert before or after dinner

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Howard: after.

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Mason Ainsworth: Okay, cool.

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Very cool.

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Well, thank you so much.

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That was fun.

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Haven't done that before.

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So, uh, if folks are listening

and they kind of like that,

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feel free to let us know.

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But now we will jump right into things.

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so Howard, I usually start off with folks

with kind of their personal origin story.

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I find it's really interesting to

hear where different folks are from,

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uh, whether they're from economic

development or another sector,

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and just get to know them a bit.

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Uh, and obviously as we've kind of already

established, you're a major foodie.

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Mm-hmm.

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Uh, but you've also been a policy advisor

at the Ministry of Infrastructure.

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To your role as a lecturer for the

Urban planning studio courses at

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Toronto Metropolitan University,

formerly Ryerson, and now the

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foodie in chief or foodie in Chef.

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Oh my goodness, that's so embarrassing.

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Eat more food tours.

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Uh, what sparked your passion for

food and economic development and how

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did this journey that you've been on,

uh, lead you to where you are today?

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Kind of connecting those things together?

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Howard: Yeah.

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Uh, I mean, I actually started

my career as an urban planner.

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I went into that actually

because I really loved cities.

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I loved cities, urban policy.

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I grew up in the suburbs and so I

actually always had this thing about

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like wanting to make the suburbs a

better place, uh, especially for.

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younger people, right?

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Uh, like teenagers or kids, right?

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Because growing up in the suburbs I

would have to get driven to places.

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I would have to ask people to drive

me or find a ride or and it was

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always like either just to the mall or

somebody else's house and always wanted

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to improve that and find something,

you know, a nice third place, right?

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A place that like people could hang out

in and didn't require you to buy anything.

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So, um, I went into urban planning

with sort of those, those sort of

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mindsets and wanted to design and

create spaces that really worked.

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And, uh, that actually led me to,

uh, oddly enough, my, my family's

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actually from Hong Kong, but I had

never really spent a lot of time there.

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But it led me there because I really

wanted to see, urban planning up close

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in a, in a very different context.

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And that I got like Hong Kong is

as many people describe it as a

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kind of like a blade runner city.

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It's very high density, uh, lots

of like crazy infrastructure and

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some of the most efficient, you

know, public transit in the world.

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And so it's, it's a really interesting

place to actually really study this

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topic and really learn about it.

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So I came back full of ideas and,

uh, that's actually when I, I started

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working for the government of Ontario.

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that's where the role of Ministry

of Infrastructure came in.

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And, um, it was.

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Not what I expected.

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And I, I kind of wanted to really do my

own thing, um, because a lot of the work

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that was going on there was very, I mean,

obviously bureaucratic and very slow as,

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as the reputation of government often is.

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But I really wanted to really get

involved more in community and actually

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working more directly with community

and really trying to come up with

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these solutions from the ground up.

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And so, that's how I started doing work,

uh, actually in public consultation

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public engagement, that led me

into the work as a lecturer for the

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Toronto Metropolitan University.

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what also you didn't mention was that I,

I also did some, some time at the Rotman

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School of Management at the U of T where

uh, I helped to, lead a course called

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Citi Lab, where we actually looked at.

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Uh, local economic development,

especially with regards to small business.

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it Was actually like, um, a

student consulting kind of studio

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course, uh, where the, uh, business

students would come in and we try to

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connect them with actually a local

economic development opportunity.

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A.

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Be it working with a BIA or working

with an actual small business to

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help them figure out some of their,

you know, business fundamentals

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and how they can improve and, and,

uh, better do what they're doing in

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terms of their mission and strategy.

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And so that's actually where like I

started to connect some of these dots

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together and, uh, realized really like

how important, uh, first of all, like

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local economic development and community

economic development really was to

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local neighborhoods and communities.

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But also really started to see how

my urban planning lens kind of came

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into this because like we talk a lot

about community in urban planning.

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We talk a lot about how do we actually

build things for, uh, neighborhoods and

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places and, and the people who live there.

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But the thread through all that too

also is economic development, right?

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A neighborhood just isn't a

neighborhood without its business.

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Right.

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So so in many respects, like

that's actually where some of this

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started to come together for me.

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And, uh, one of the things I loved about

being an urban planner was doing a lot

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of site visits, visiting neighborhoods

and communities, learning about their

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story, really getting into talking

to, to local people about like, what

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really matters about this neighborhood?

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And where do you go for, you know,

the best food or, you know, the

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best like place to hang out, right?

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Best coffee shop, things like that.

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And that's when I started

thinking about like.

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Food as one of these of these channels.

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So I lived, in downtown Toronto

for a few years and then I moved

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back to Scarborough around 2017.

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And, uh, at that time, Scarborough

was just starting to come together

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actually with its story around food.

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So for many years it, like it, it had

already been growing and developing

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and kind of people who knew, who knew.

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And I grew up in Scarborough.

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Kind of was aware of this story, right?

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But it really didn't hit home until I

moved back and started seeing all these

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like news articles popping up, right?

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Scarborough, best food

suburb in the world, right?

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And, uh, a lot of my friends from the

city would start asking me, Hey would

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you be interested in like showing

me some restaurants in Scarborough?

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I wanted to learn about

this, this food scene.

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And that's when I started discovering it

a bit more and getting deeper into it.

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And over time, uh,

these, these like little.

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Tours I had with friends kind of started

developing, uh, a life of its own.

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And that's kind of where Eat

More Food Tours came from.

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We started doing these food tours because

yeah, there was actually like demand and

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I was, uh, pleasantly surprised actually

that people really wanted to see this.

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and I saw this as a, as a,

of course an opportunity.

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And so we just started doing it as

a bit of a hobby business initially.

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But it has grown now into, uh, into

a business that we work on full-time.

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Mason Ainsworth: That's incredible.

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And, uh, for any entrepreneurs out there

who are thinking about starting your

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own business, I highly recommend that.

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I think you've, uh, you said it out well

as you took a, you know, a passion that

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you had, got some friends together and

then said, Hey, like, this is pretty cool.

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Maybe we can turn this into something.

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Did a little bit of work on it on the side

and then turned it into, uh, an entire

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business that you're doing full-time.

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I think that is, uh, phenomenal, Howard.

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So thank you, uh, for your commitment

to entrepreneurship and, uh.

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To economic development and also to the

food space as a big, uh, foodie myself.

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Howard: Yeah.

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Thank you.

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And, uh, obviously food is

a, is a big story these days.

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Here in Toronto, here in S Scarborough,

I would say probably every third business

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that opens is food or food related now.

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So it's definitely something that, that.

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Is capturing a lot of

people's imagination.

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And all kinds of stories that go with

that, you know, from professionals

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who, uh, start out in their own

profession and then decide they

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wanna run a food business, right?

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to people like creatives who have like

really wonderful ideas for building

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amazing, uh, spaces for community, right?

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Starting food businesses.

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So, lots, lots of stuff to unpack there

and, and really, really talk about.

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Mason Ainsworth: I love it and I think,

uh, food is, has such a unique place

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in the world out of everything is when

you come together and you, you know,

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quote unquote break bread with somebody.

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I think that in itself is just

such a special experience.

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'Cause you're in that situation

and if you look back, you know,

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throughout time, it's, it's also

a vulnerable situation, right?

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You're sitting there, you're eating

but you're also bonding with people.

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So I think the more we can eat

together as people and we can share

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some of those experiences, the closer

we're gonna become as a society,

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which I, I really appreciate.

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And it comes to that mm-hmm.

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Importance of place that you

spoke to as well, and having those

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spaces for people to come together.

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Howard: Mm-hmm.

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Absolutely.

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Mason Ainsworth: Uh, so just before

we hop to the next question, I did

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have a very nerdy question for you.

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I know you mentioned the, uh,

blade Runner city of Hong Kong.

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Have you watched the Blade Runners?

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Howard: Yeah, I watched the old

one, not the remake, but yeah.

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Mason Ainsworth: Nice.

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Well the classic is the classic, right?

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So the new one was pretty,

pretty good as well.

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But yeah, you can't beat the

original, that's for sure.

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But anyways, getting back on

track, Howard eat more food tours.

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Let's talk about that a bit more in

detail for folks who are not aware.

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I know you kind of told us a little

bit about the journey, uh, but I'm

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curious, you know, who's involved

with that, what it does specifically.

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How that works for folks who are

interested and why it would be of

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interest to economic developers, whether

that's in the GTA, uh, or whether

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that's elsewhere in Ontario or beyond.

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Howard: Yeah.

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So maybe I'll start with what

it does, uh, and how it works.

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Question.

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So we're, uh.

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Food tour company.

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We're involved in culinary tourism,

uh, which is the more broader

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industry that this falls in.

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And, um, culinary tourism

has been around for a while.

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It's, I would say that, uh, it's

definitely mu been much bigger in other

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places around the world historically.

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So think of, you know, your farm

to table tours in Italy or your,

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cuisine tours in Paris, right?

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Best French dining, things like that.

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And, uh, I, I think it's a, it's a

category that, um, has really only

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started to grow in Canada more recently.

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it's definitely still something

that, uh, is quite new, I would

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say, even here in Toronto.

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Generally speaking, we've only ever

seen like a few other, uh, organizations

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that even do this in, in Toronto.

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And so how it works is, we take groups

of people around to eat literally.

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Our group sizes are anywhere

from five to 25 people.

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We can go up to 30 as well if, if needed.

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But, uh, but we, we think that the sweet

spot is more in the 20 to 25 range that

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allows us to really connect with folks.

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Uh, so there's a lot more

opportunity to chat and talk, uh,

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and learn about different things.

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For our tours, we often bring out a lot

of, uh, information about the restaurant.

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So we spend a lot of time actually

researching and learning about this,

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and I'll get to that in a second.

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But, uh, we talk a little

bit about the restaurant.

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We talk a little bit about the cuisine

and the type of cuisine that we're having.

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We get a little bit into

some of the history and the

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heritage behind the cuisine.

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And then as part of the tour itself,

you get to sample the food and then

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we'll, we'll go from stop to stop.

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Uh, usually about four stops on

a tour three savory, one suite.

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And then by the end of

it, you will have had.

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more than enough food actually for a

meal, plus probably some take home.

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And, uh, we, we order direct from

the restaurants like we usually

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get like the sort of larger portion

sizes and we sort of pre-portioned

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it out for each individual person.

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And of course, along the way

we'll do little like games

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and um, uh, activities, right?

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So sometimes we have little

scavenger hunts for people.

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Uh, sometimes we have

like quiz games, right?

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And a lot of it is really just

to help people learn a little bit

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more about the neighborhood and the

community that they're walking through.

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So if they're on the lookout for

the gazebo, right, they'll be on

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the lookout for the gazebo and

we'll give a little prize for that.

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So these are, these are some of

the little things that are part of

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the tour itself, the experience.

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And we really designed

that from top to bottom.

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So, uh, a lot of that goes

into the sort of research side

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of it as I mentioned before.

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So we actually try every restaurant

before we take people there.

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I just.

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Think it's unethical if you don't.

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And, uh, and so so we spend,

uh, so we spend time doing that.

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We call these, the recons.

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So we actually go, we sample the

food, we try out different dishes.

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Uh, then we actually see if we want

to talk to the owner about like if we

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really like the food, if we want to talk

to the owner about the, uh, restaurant

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the story of the restaurant, right?

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We try to start to learn

a little bit about that.

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We talk to them about, logistics, right?

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So we start to like, think about can this

fit a group size that we're looking for?

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What about the washrooms?

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Is the restaurant accessible?

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Right?

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So logistical considerations

start to come into it.

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And then we'll start to think about how

we might arrange the tour to come in here.

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Would we want one long table?

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Would we want a few scattered tables?

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Depending on the experience and the

vibe of the restaurant, it really.

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Changes that, uh, quite a bit.

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And then we'll, we'll go to market, start

to develop the tour, uh, market, it,

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create you know, social media assets.

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And we do a lot of advertising

on, uh, on social media.

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Uh, mostly through Instagram.

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Uh, LinkedIn, and Facebook.

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and that's basically how we

sort of bring this all to life.

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And in terms of like, who's involved,

like, we work directly with the

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restaurants as, uh, as I just mentioned.

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Uh, we have an internal staff team

comprised of, uh, our social media

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manager admin staff, uh, and an

operations team that deals with

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the logistics behind the tours.

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Uh, so organizing, say a bus, if we need

to get from one place to another, that's.

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A little bit further apart

organizing the the food.

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So, uh, getting somebody, for example,

to work directly with the restaurants to

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make sure the order is on time, right?

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Uh, the delivery is

happening, things like that.

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And so that's, that all goes

into like part of our operations

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process and development.

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Um, and we train all of our staff to

understand actually how that works.

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And in terms of what it means really

for economic development, I think

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food tourism, I mean, because the

food industry is growing so quickly

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and there's so much interest in food,

uh, I mean, you see it everywhere.

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You just log onto any

social media channel, right?

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You've got foodie bloggers, influencers,

all talking about their latest meal trying

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to find the next best experience, right?

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Whether or not they're

being sponsored or not.

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I mean, there is, there is

definitely deep interest in it.

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And, and a lot of these

videos do get lots of likes.

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They go viral and things like that.

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And so I think like in, I would

say that like in every community

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there's always good food and

there's always good food stories.

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And the point is it doesn't

have to be the world's best.

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In fact, even that's even like a

subjective, I think, measure Right

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sometimes, because ultimately it's really

up to uh, the person tasting the food to

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determine whether or not it's the best.

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And I don't think that's really the point

that the story here, the story is really

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about being able to talk about food.

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As a community to talk about

like what makes the place and

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what makes the food great.

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And ultimately from economic development

perspective, how do we connect that

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story to more people so that more people

then want to patronize these particular

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places because of the story, right?

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Like, like storytelling is a

really powerful tool and really

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ultimately as food tour guides are.

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Our job here actually is

to be the storyteller.

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We're actually helping to gather

that story through the research

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process that we've done to share

that story with as many people as

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possible who come on the tours.

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And through that, develop a relationship

between the customer and the restaurant.

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Uh, and I'll say that like so many times

we've seen people on our tours because

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we do a lot of our tours in the suburbs,

including in Scarborough Markham, um.

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And, and when we bring people out on

our tours, what's really crazy is that

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there are people who may have lived

in Scarborough or may have lived in

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Toronto for years, and they'll come

on our tours for the first time and

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we'll take them to a restaurant.

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They'll be like, I've driven by this

place, like probably a hundred times.

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I never thought to stop here.

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I'm definitely coming back

because the food here is so good.

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And, and that's because like,

again, like many of these

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places don't look interesting.

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But the point is, is once you get

connected into that story, and once

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you get connected into that context and

that environment, it completely changes

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your, your viewpoint about, a particular

place, uh, an area or a district, right?

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Um, that's actually what will bring

people back and we'll continue to

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support these businesses long term.

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I'm pretty sure that like.

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If those people that we have connected

with in that way, we'll be going back

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to that restaurant multiple times.

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Mason Ainsworth: I love that.

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And I, and I think having those good,

uh, food stories are so important,

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uh, not only for the economy, but

for, uh, just retention of, of people

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who are coming to your establishment.

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Mm-hmm.

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And I know that, you know, on the, the

positive note, but also on the negative

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side, like a, a bad story at a restaurant

can, you know, be shared a thousand times.

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I can think of examples where I've had

a, you know, really negative, Experience

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at a place and you know, you go and you

tell all your friends, well, it's the

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same thing reversed if you go someplace

and you go, oh yeah, like we went on this

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sweet tour and we met these really amazing

people and we went to these different

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restaurants and did you know that the

person who has this restaurant is like.

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You know, third generation running

the restaurant and it's been in their

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family for this long, and there's this

specific item that they make and that

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actually traces all the way back to

like their home and this other country.

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And like just little things like that

are, are so cool compared to just

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going in and ordering something and

then you get the food given to you

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and, and no one really says anything.

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So I think.

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Building that story in, uh, just

makes it more exciting and really

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is part of that experience.

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And I think, uh, story and

experience are very much, you

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know, hand in hand and yeah.

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Uh, I always heard, you know, not to

go too dark, but, uh, when you die

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eventually, uh, and people always

ask, oh, well, you know, well,

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what are people gonna think of me?

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And there's a ton of studies out there

and they really show that they're not.

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So much remembering like, oh yeah, you

were super successful in business, or

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you did this, or you won this award.

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It's how did this person make me feel?

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Howard: Mm.

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Mason Ainsworth: And I think it's the same

thing with, restaurants and with food is,

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you know, the food it, you know, obviously

you want it to be good tasting and you

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want it to be great, but it's also do

you feel good when you go to this place?

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And I think of some of my

favorite restaurants over time.

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And, and yeah, the food was awesome, but

also it was the conversations I had with

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the owners or the way the staff made

me feel, or how, you know, me and my

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friends got treated and things like that.

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So I think you're right

on the ball with this.

415

Howard: Yeah, and I think like,

no, nowhere does that pop up.

416

So obviously than in social media

where I mean like the story of the

417

place, the story of the owner, the

story of the person can really elevate.

418

Restaurant status, right?

419

You see it happening all the time.

420

All like all across different

channels and, and mediums.

421

But like, it, it is something that

really like changes and, and it'll be

422

funny because like sometimes you'll

even hear like, you know, someone

423

come back from one of those places

and be like, yeah, the food was

424

okay, but I got to meet the owner.

425

And like, you know, that that

person was really cool, you know.

426

Mason Ainsworth: A hundred percent.

427

Absolutely.

428

Uh, so I know we've talked a bit

about, uh, culinary tourism and, and

429

food tourism a bit in the food sector.

430

I'm curious outside of your business

directly, what are you hearing

431

that's going on out there and kind

of the broader, like Ontario or,

432

uh, elsewhere from, uh, different

folks in the food industry?

433

Howard: Yeah, I think when it comes to

the, like the broader industry, I mean,

434

I think we've all seen the headlines,

you know, restaurants are, are suffering.

435

There's definitely, uh, like a downturn

folks are eating out less because of

436

the economic conditions and climate.

437

I would say that like within the kind

of restaurants that we are dealing with,

438

uh, a lot of times we do hear that story.

439

We do hear the, it's getting

tough, uh, expenses are going up.

440

We have to raise our prices.

441

That's definitely part of it.

442

But also I, I, I wanted to

bring the perspective of.

443

So it sometimes depends also on what

community you're actually serving.

444

And actually what is it that you're

selling in terms of food, right.

445

Because.

446

What's, what's really interesting is

that like in, in places like Toronto

447

suburbs where it's very multicultural

and there's restaurants that cater to

448

all kinds of tastes and it even gets down

to the very, like, very specific, right?

449

So, uh, there's a restaurant

that we go to for example, that

450

serves not just Indian food.

451

They serve.

452

Hydro body breakfast items.

453

Right?

454

It's, it's very specific.

455

It's very

456

Mason Ainsworth: sorry.

457

Hydro body breakfast items.

458

Howard: Yes.

459

Uh, please

460

Mason Ainsworth: explain.

461

Howard: So hydro bed is

a, is a city in India.

462

It's in South Central India.

463

I've never been there myself,

but from what the owner tells me,

464

there's like a really big thing

about breakfast Street food.

465

Uh, it's a, it's a very

common thing there.

466

And people will, you know.

467

Go and like line up for

it, things like that.

468

And so he tried to bring

that concept here to Toronto.

469

Um, and he opened a restaurant that's

very specific, at least selling these,

470

these kinds of, uh, street food items.

471

And.

472

From what I can tell,

he's doing very well.

473

Even right now.

474

And I think it's because of the

specificity of what he's trying to do.

475

Like, because we now have a community

that's large enough to support that.

476

Right.

477

There's enough people from.

478

Habad or who have tried that kind

of food before, who then want to

479

actually seek out a restaurant or

a place that's actually serving it.

480

And he might be like one of like, you

know, four in the entire city, right?

481

So that's why I'm saying

it really depends, right?

482

It depends on what you're doing

and what you're trying to serve.

483

if it gets to the, to a certain level

where it's serving a very specific

484

community or very specific need I do see

there actually is quite a bit of actual.

485

growth and development in those worlds.

486

But also like in other places, I can

also see that there are people who

487

are, who have had a really rough time.

488

And so, uh, I like, I think like with

many economic development stories, it's

489

not a size, one size fits all story.

490

But in general though I think

though that, the rising costs of

491

doing business are taking a bite

out of, out of everyone's pocket.

492

Um, and that's something that I think

we need to really like, think about,

493

especially from a, I think a policy

perspective in many of the inner

494

suburbs in Toronto, we do also have this

challenge around, uh, redevelopment.

495

which is causing displacement

gentrification, right?

496

Because rents go up uh, once the new

building comes in, that sort of thing.

497

And, um.

498

That's something I think that like

from a policy perspective we could

499

work a little bit more on is how do we

actually ensure that there continues to

500

be affordable spaces because also for

new entrants into the marketplace, like

501

somebody who wants to start the next,

hydro batty breakfast food joint, right?

502

Where would they go actually

to be able to actually start up

503

their venture, uh, especially if

they don't have a lot of capital.

504

So there's, there is something to be said

about how do we actually, create that and

505

create programs and supports to actually

continue to develop that into the future.

506

Mason Ainsworth: Very cool.

507

Well, thank you so much

for explaining that.

508

I'm definitely excited to line up in the

future and get some Breakfast Street food.

509

That sounds right up my alley.

510

Uh, and yeah, it's, it's an

interesting place out there right now.

511

So we're gonna just, uh,

park policy for a second.

512

'cause I am gonna loop back to

that 'cause I did have a question

513

for you, uh, in that area.

514

But, uh, I know you, you talked a bit

about collaboration and uh, obviously

515

collaboration is the, the key to

success in economic development.

516

We really thrive on those partnerships.

517

I'm curious if you can share a story

with us of a successful collaboration,

518

uh, that stands out in your mind that

could be with a municipality and maybe

519

the culinary sector, or a business

maybe that you've partnered with in

520

the past, and how kind of working

together, uh, led to something positive.

521

Howard: Yeah.

522

Um, I'll talk about actually

like two ones really quickly.

523

So, uh, one of our longest standing

partnerships has been with an organization

524

called Scarborough Arts, here in Toronto.

525

They're, uh, known as lo local arts

service organizations, so they're

526

partially funded by the city.

527

And the idea is that they help to

develop, um, community arts outside

528

of the, of the downtown core.

529

So so scrub arts has been around

530

And part of what they see is that, you

know, art covers all, all different

531

aspects, including culinary arts.

532

And so we've been working with them for

a number of years now in a partnership

533

where we, work on sort of combining art

and food together as part of a food tour.

534

Um, and we run many series, of these tours

over the years including one of, one of

535

our actually bestselling tours called the

Night Tour where we actually visit, um.

536

in the suburbs of Toronto, there are

many of these, what we call night plazas.

537

They're places where you can really go

that really liven up actually after dark.

538

It's very much like kind of a, a culture

from, abroad in the sense that uh, if you

539

think about like night markets in Asia

or night markets in South Asia, right?

540

That's the kind of vibe that these

plazas really sort of bring out.

541

At night.

542

And so you'll a lot, you'll see a lot of

like late night, you know, bubble tea or

543

kebobs or chai bars and things like that.

544

Lights are all on, it's

bright neon signs everywhere.

545

And, uh, there's lots of people mulling

about in the parking lot, right?

546

And so.

547

With this tour, we take people out to

see some of these sites in Scarborough.

548

and they've been our, like,

one of our bestselling tours

549

for like three years running.

550

and part of it is to kind of like

talk about the art of nightlife

551

culture, and night culture and where

that comes from and, um, trying to

552

actually imbue also like a sense

of like participatory artwork.

553

So we'll encourage, you know,

people to do, uh, chalk murals

554

on the side of a wall, right?

555

Um, that's all part of it.

556

and it's really just like,

again, trying to, trying to

557

connect the dots between art.

558

Culture food.

559

Right.

560

And it's been a very successful

partnership, I would say with

561

Scarborough Arts in that sense.

562

we've definitely been able to, uh, help

the organization connect more outside of

563

the more traditional artist communities.

564

We've, I think, been able to help

people who come on the tours, see that.

565

Art is alive and well all

across, you know, the suburbs.

566

And, it may not be in the same ways

that you would see them maybe in an

567

urban center, but like public art and

displays of art are happening everywhere.

568

And I think that, uh, it helps

also connect the dots around sort

569

of how this then translates into

culture and, and what makes the

570

cultures of communities come to life.

571

So that, that's the first one.

572

And then the the other partnership

I'll talk about is uh, one we

573

did with, uh, with the BIA.

574

So, uh, last year we actually had the

really great privilege of working with the

575

downtown Young Business Improvement area.

576

It's one of the largest bs in the country.

577

In terms of their budget and,

you know, the, the kind of.

578

Property owners that

are part of their PIA.

579

Uh, so this, for example, it actually

includes the Eaton Center, uh,

580

as one of their property members.

581

And, um, we, uh, we worked with

them on a series of food tours to

582

discover, uh, food in their community.

583

In the central core of this, of

Toronto and they actually offered to

584

sponsor pretty much most of the tours.

585

So we were able to offer

them for an amazing.

586

$10 really to the community.

587

And really it was just seen as more of a

larger community of effort to promote the

588

businesses, to promote uh, local food.

589

And so we, we really like, researched

and kind of dug up like restaurants that,

590

like even the, the BIA team wasn't fully

familiar with but we were able to really

591

like help people see that like there's

actually good food to be discovered in.

592

In this neighborhood, uh, which

traditionally was known more for,

593

um, I think fast food chains and

you know not necessarily, you know,

594

good, authentic uh, local dining.

595

And so yeah, we delivered those

tours and it was like a huge success.

596

We saw that like a lot of the

businesses, many of whom, who may not

597

have actually traditionally engaged

with the BIA actually coming out and

598

wanting to be a part of this to the

point where there was actually more.

599

sort of requests from the businesses

that there actually was in terms

600

of number of tours we could

deliver to feature all of them.

601

And, it drilled a lot of people,

uh, and it got a lot more people

602

aware of what the BIA was doing and

with some of the, uh, businesses

603

and activities in the neighborhood.

604

So I think it was a major win for,

for us and for them, uh, to be able

605

to create this sense of, uh, the

larger community development Right.

606

Happening right in our downtown core.

607

Mason Ainsworth: Beautiful.

608

I love that.

609

And uh, and that's such a great example

of partnerships in collaboration across,

610

uh, different industries and such.

611

I know we've talked in a few episodes

about, uh, bs, uh, on the podcast

612

now, and we've had, uh, Rachel

from, uh, Obi, which was great.

613

Uh, but yeah, all these

things interconnect.

614

So the more we can get together

and support each other, the more

615

we can support our communities,

which I think is phenomenal.

616

Howard: Absolutely.

617

Yeah.

618

Um, and we'd love to continue to

do those sorts of partnerships.

619

Um, we do have, some potential ones also

with some D Os, so destination marketing

620

organizations, um, and also with, uh,

some other bis in Toronto as well.

621

Mason Ainsworth: Congratulations.

622

That's awesome to hear.

623

Uh, so Howard I said

I'd loop back to policy.

624

Mm-hmm.

625

And we definitely are about to, uh,

advice for economic developers, for

626

someone in economic development, what

policies or programs do you think

627

would help support their culinary

tourism sector and their community?

628

Howard: Yeah.

629

Um, I mean, I think, uh.

630

not to sound, uh, uh, like a broken record

here, but I think food tourism is actually

631

really one really great starting point.

632

I mean, it.

633

It does require a bit of work to set up.

634

And it does require a little bit of

time sort of to, you know get it right.

635

And also in terms of like building kind

of, awareness and kind of like a, like

636

a market demand for, you know, people

wanting to do, uh, something like that.

637

But I think that is one very direct way

that you can actually build relationships

638

between restaurants and customers.

639

And I think that's really the key

here is to, like, I think especially

640

with food, which is something that's

so personal and so visceral, right.

641

It's important I think

to, to really think about.

642

That relationship beyond just a

simple transaction of I go to you,

643

you give me food, I give you money.

644

It like, it's a little bit, I think beyond

that because I think also, uh, at this,

645

especially at this time too, and, and we

see it and we hear it everywhere, right?

646

Like, obviously like the economy

isn't, isn't doing great.

647

So that's causing a lot of anxiety.

648

The politics of our world

is causing a lot of anxiety.

649

But also like we, we've heard

of you know, loneliness is,

650

is a, is a big problem, right?

651

A lot of people, feel, uh, lonely

or, you know, they live alone or

652

they feel like they don't have anyone

that they can connect with, right?

653

So I think like even.

654

Providing an opportunity for

someone to have a relationship

655

with a restaurant, with an owner,

with a server that really helps.

656

Especially if we're talking

about trying to build sort of

657

a relationship you know, to.

658

Improve the economy too, and

improve sort of food businesses.

659

I think that that storytelling

piece is a really great tool

660

to actually help with that.

661

And I think like the difference between

sort of telling a story, just like say,

662

putting up a website with like, here's

like five restaurants in our area and

663

here's their sort of written story.

664

The difference between

being able to read that.

665

And go, ah.

666

Versus being able to experience

that and go, oh, right.

667

I think that actually is what to

me makes sort of food tourism as a,

668

as an aspect really stand out, as

a way to actually help build that

669

connection through experience for

a particular customer or client.

670

also like, as I mentioned before, I think

finding ways to support food entrepreneurs

671

I think would be really helpful.

672

Uh, so again, more affordable

startup spaces, you know,

673

kitchens things like that.

674

Uh, I've seen many models

of this around Canada.

675

But like the idea of even just

like a shared kitchen facility.

676

Like, say in a mini food court with like

three or four different vendors, right?

677

That could really help to cut down costs.

678

I think like models like

that are really cool.

679

Uh, one of the more, I think,

fascinating ones, are, from East Asia.

680

So in.

681

Hong Kong.

682

And in Singapore there are these, um,

government owned food courts cooked

683

food centers or hawker centers, uh,

that exist where the rent is very low.

684

It's a publicly owned facility.

685

And the point is, is that it's,

um, uh, a place really that you

686

can get really affordable meals.

687

Government sees it as a way like a

government support in a way, right?

688

To be able to provide, uh, more

affordable food for the local population.

689

And, um, and so many businesses do

start out in these places and eventually

690

move out and develop, into a more

traditional brick and mortar store.

691

And I think especially at this time,

like thinking about, yeah, like what

692

can we do directly to really help

encourage more people to dine out.

693

More programs like, you know,

the delicious festivals or food

694

festivals would be really good.

695

And also designing them so that they

fit with different kinds of cuisines.

696

'cause not all restaurants

can do the three course meal.

697

So, um, there's definitely, I think a

ways to, uh, to support that or to design

698

those programs to really fit with that.

699

One other piece, uh, that I want to give

a shout out to is, one of our other

700

partners that we've worked with is a group

called Plaza Pops, right here in Toronto.

701

Basically, what they did was they set

up these, um, outdoor patio places,

702

really beautiful patio spots by the way

that were fabricated and designed, uh,

703

with the community in terms of like the

kinds of features that they would have

704

and in terms of the sort of the, uh,

artistic components that they would have.

705

And, uh, they pop these up in

strip plazas in the suburbs.

706

So one of the challenges of any

suburban communities is, as I

707

mentioned third spaces are hard to

find, especially again, third spaces

708

don't require you to buy something.

709

Um, and so they managed to be able to

talk to strip plaza owners in places

710

like Scarborough and in Otoko to, uh,

give up a little bit of their parking

711

lot to be able to install a pop-up.

712

Public space.

713

So, uh, with planters, with

benches, uh, tables, right?

714

A little bit of shade,

right for the summertime.

715

these were usually, uh, taken down.

716

They were set up in the spring.

717

They'd be taken down in the fall.

718

Um, but the idea really is that it,

it provides that extra space and they

719

found that it was actually a really,

important space because, uh, now

720

people had a new place to hang out.

721

They would be able to buy food from

the plaza, take it outside, eat in a

722

patio, especially where restaurants

didn't have their own patio.

723

Right.

724

Eat in the patio, hang out

with their friends, right.

725

Chat for hours.

726

And again, like if you don't want

to buy anything, you don't have to.

727

You can just sit there and enjoy it.

728

And I really wanted to like highlight

that also as a, as a policy tool to think

729

about, especially in, suburban communities

where there aren't necessarily like the

730

traditional main streets that we think

about, uh, where there's a lot of parking

731

lots, there's a lot of, empty space.

732

And so this, this is a tool I

think that really can help with

733

encouraging people to stay longer in

some of these places that are meant

734

to be driven to and driven out of.

735

Like we could actually really start

to create I think little pockets

736

of public spaces and, and really

develop the placemaking ability

737

of some of these plazas, uh, as

these potential third spaces.

738

And again, just in that way, encourage

people to patronize the businesses more.

739

Mason Ainsworth: I love that.

740

That's, uh, that's super exciting and what

a cool idea, uh, Howard, what's missing?

741

Is there anything we didn't

talk about today that would be

742

of interest to our listeners?

743

Howard: Yeah, I think to the point

about, good food in every community, uh,

744

just to really wanted to just kind of

like point out again, I think there's,

745

there's good food in every community.

746

We're really good at finding them.

747

But also just like I would say

to economic developers and to,

748

community developers everywhere.

749

Don't be afraid to actually try doing

food tourism in your neighborhood.

750

Like I know there's always this

fear that like, oh, we don't

751

have the best restaurants.

752

Those are all downtown,

or something like that.

753

There's always a way

you can tell that story.

754

Talent in an authentic way and in a

way that really connects with people.

755

That brings people in.

756

Right.

757

cause I'd love to see culinary

tourism be a part of actually

758

every community in Canada.

759

Uh, I think there's a

huge potential for it.

760

We have a really.

761

Amazing and fascinating food history, food

culture from all the different cultures

762

that have come to Canada and including

our indigenous culture that's, that

763

has been here for generations, right?

764

there is a lot of opportunity

to tell that story in a much

765

more vibrant and engaging way.

766

And I think like culinary tourism

is one way to get that started.

767

And also help people really

understand cross-cultural differences.

768

Uh, understand also what

connects us together as people.

769

Like as an example of that, one story

we always mention on all of our tours

770

is, uh, how, um, uh, have you ever

noticed that every culture has like

771

something that's like a dumpling,

basically something wrapped in dough?

772

It's a very common thing and that

that's no coincidence, right?

773

That like, it's because we as like

humans are so connected together in

774

the sense that wherever we travel, we

bring our food with us, uh, we bring

775

our recipes with us, we may need to

modify, we may need to change it, right?

776

But the point really is that there's

so much in food that actually brings

777

us closer together, literally.

778

And, uh, helps us really understand

where we're all coming from.

779

That I think it's a really great

way to, again, use it as a tool to

780

talk about uh, not just supporting

our restaurants, but talking about

781

community, talking about culture and

talking about what makes our neighborhood

782

a great place to share stories.

783

Mason Ainsworth: I love it.

784

And, uh, and make sure you folks

who are listening, you get out

785

there and you try it tell that story

and bring those people together

786

because everybody's got a dumpling.

787

I love that.

788

And, uh, I just have a couple questions,

uh, left for you before we, uh, close off.

789

Howard.

790

Uh, we have a mystery question.

791

From one of our former Medi,

the Ambassadors of Economic

792

Development and Innovation at the

University of Waterloo, Janet Song.

793

Okay.

794

So thank you so much,

Janet, for the question.

795

Uh, the question is, which moment

with a local restaurant or business

796

made you realize this work was

bigger than just doing tours?

797

Howard: Yeah, I would say it

was probably a couple years ago.

798

We had, um.

799

one lady she's a bit elderly.

800

Say she's probably was

probably in about her sixties.

801

She came to actually four

tours of ours in a row.

802

Um, she signed up, uh, and

came again and again and again.

803

And we kept seeing her name

on the registration list

804

and we'd be like, oh, cool.

805

You know she's coming again.

806

This is so cool.

807

And by the fourth tour, I just,

kind of asked her like, thanks

808

for coming to all these tours what

brought you out to so many tours?

809

we love it, but like, yeah, just curious.

810

Right?

811

Was it like our advertising, you

know, was it me, you know, dancing

812

on Instagram that got you out here?

813

Was it the food?

814

Right.

815

And she said something that

Really touched my heart.

816

And, really made me think a lot more

about the impact of these tours.

817

And she said, well, you know,

I am elderly and I live alone.

818

I often dine alone and this is

really an opportunity for me to

819

get out and eat with other people.

820

And I really value that and.

821

It was just one of those moments

where like, I just was like, wow,

822

like I actually didn't really

have a, a direct response at that

823

moment because I was just really.

824

Appreciating that.

825

And also as we mentioned before

talked a little bit about the, like

826

the loneliness epidemic, right?

827

Like, like that's when it came home

to me as well about like how important

828

this is actually for people to find

community, for people to find each other.

829

And just seeing, I guess that

impact, like even at that very.

830

Individualized level was something that

really just struck me as like, yeah,

831

this is why we do need to keep doing

this, uh, is because we can help with

832

alleviating somebody's loneliness.

833

That's great.

834

Yeah.

835

Mason Ainsworth: Beautiful.

836

I think, uh, I think that's, uh,

that's wonderful and, and really

837

shows, uh, some of the root there

and, and the loneliness epidemic,

838

especially after COVID obviously.

839

Something that was there I

think before, but really got

840

amplified as a result of that.

841

And I think we're seeing a lot of

the repercussions of such things now.

842

So it's so important to have

opportunities to bring people together,

843

to have those shared spaces, to have

opportunities where somebody can do

844

something as simple as just eat with

somebody and have a conversation.

845

I think that really builds a stronger

community and I, I'm so glad that, uh,

846

they decided to share that story with you.

847

Howard: Yeah, me too.

848

Yeah, and I like, I'll, I'll just say

this one last piece too is that like, I

849

think when I first got into like policy

work, I always thought about impact

850

from that sort of macro level of like,

Hey, we can change this policy and

851

it'll benefit like thousands of people.

852

And uh, and I still believe in that.

853

It's not to say I don't, it's

just that it was stories like

854

this and also seeing people.

855

Go to restaurants for the first

time and you know, that eyes

856

close, head nodding moment where

they're like, that this is so good.

857

Right?

858

Like and seeing that like, you know,

you can deliver, That impact and that

859

change at that such individual level

that was like a, like a moment for me

860

too, to realize just like how important

it is both to be on the ground and

861

delivering that individual person

to person change as much as it is.

862

At that policy level, doing that, like

macro change just as a, as a personal

863

note of like, how I started to come to

see where impact is actually happening.

864

Mason Ainsworth: Awesome.

865

Uh, so Howard, I've got

one last question for you.

866

How do people book a tour and

how do they get in touch with you

867

if they're interested in setting

up a tour in their community?

868

Howard: Yeah, so you can

just go to our website.

869

It's, uh, eat more scarborough.com.

870

our business originally started as

Eat more Scarborough food tours.

871

Uh, now we're eat more food

tours 'cause we do stuff outside

872

of Scarborough, but eat more.

873

scarborough.com

874

is still our original website

where you can book tours with us.

875

Scarborough or not.

876

So you send us an email if you want

to book a private tour with us.

877

If you want to check out our tour

schedule, that will be posted.

878

Uh, there's a link to our

tour schedule on the website.

879

You can book through there.

880

Uh, all of our tours you can book

online and register with us directly.

881

Can also follow us on Instagram,

uh, more Scarborough is our handle

882

as well as, uh, on LinkedIn.

883

And you can also sign up for a newsletter.

884

Also through the website so that you

can get informed of all the latest

885

tours and events that are happening.

886

Mason Ainsworth: Perfect.

887

Thank you so much, uh, Howard, I can't

wait to see you dancing on Instagram,

888

so I will make sure to check that out.

889

Yes.

890

Uh, but in all seriousness, uh, thank you

so much for taking the time to share your

891

story with us today and, uh, hopefully

we've inspired some other people to

892

share what's going on in their community.

893

Howard: Yeah.

894

No, I, uh, I hope this is helpful

for for folks and, uh, all I will

895

say is I hope you get a chance to

get out there and enjoy your local

896

restaurants and keep eating well.

897

Mason Ainsworth: Thanks for

being a part of the conversation.

898

If you enjoyed this episode

of Hyperlocal, share it with a

899

colleague or on LinkedIn and tag us.

900

Every share helps us connect with

more economic developers and continue

901

telling these important local stories