How do values move from words on a wall to ways of working that truly shape a culture?

In this conversation, Bev Attfield Partner at Within People sits down with Madeleine Drake Director of People and Culture at Stok and Sabrina Banadaga VP of Marketing at Shift, to explore how values come alive in real workplaces. Together, they talk about what it takes to turn shared ideals into everyday behaviors, and how leaders can nurture belonging and purpose by living their values out loud.

From using technology thoughtfully to keep values relevant, to keeping things simple and human, this episode offers practical insights for anyone looking to bring more meaning into how their organization works and grows.

Listen in to discover:

How values act as a compass for decision-making and belonging

Why the most transformative values are the ones that feel lived, not written

The role leaders play in making values thrive day-to-day

Why simplicity and creativity matter in bringing values to life

We are live thank you so much for joining us in

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this event

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Bev Attfield: hosted by Within People.

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Within People is a growth and culture

consultancy that helps leaders

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around the world strategize and

implement human centered cultures.

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And we are very much

interested in how we work with.

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Leaders who are progressive thinkers

around how do you actually build

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intentional cultures that help you

have the impact that you wanna have

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in a way that really celebrates and

surfaces the talents and energy of your

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incredible people in your employee base.

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And today we are going to be

talking about a topic that is very

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near and dear to within peoples.

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Behaviors and actions that are attached

to those values that lead to the impact

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that organization can have, which aligns

with their purpose and their mission and

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their reason for existing in the world.

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we think this is a really

important conversation to have

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specifically now in this moment

of time that we find ourselves.

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we think that by and large most leaders

acknowledge that values are important.

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But oftentimes it's really hard to put

those values into practice and to use

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those values as guardrails that can steer

us into the behaviors that we wanna have.

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why values are important?

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they serve a number of

different functions for us.

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they are that compass for us.

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they guide us.

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They're that common language that we have

when we dunno the answer to something

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or when we have to make a decision.

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They create belonging amongst people

in teams, especially across hybrid

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and global teams, where maybe you

don't have that in-person moment to

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ground those norms and rituals that

are part of who you're as a culture.

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And we also like to think that

values help us attract and

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keep incredible talent, right?

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People come to work for us because

they see themselves echoed in their

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own values They know they are arriving

in a space where a company has thought

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about their values and are using

them to guide the business through

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innovation product development and

how they support their customers.

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And most importantly, how

they look after their people.

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we believe that values are a

critical part of culture and they're

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definitely worth talking about.

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And not only talking about,

but putting into practice.

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So I'm Biv Atfield, I'm a partner

at Within people and I have

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the privilege of working with.

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Very progressive, warm, human-centered

leaders like the two folks we have

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with us here today who are gonna

have a conversation with me about the

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importance of values, how to put them

into practice, and what sometimes gets

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in the way of us really making them

actionable behaviors and not just words.

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On a wall or in a slide deck, so I'd love

to introduce Madeline Drake, director

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of People and Culture at Stoke, and

Sabrina Ger, VP of Marketing at Shift.

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Both of these leaders, are

clients of within people.

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I've had the opportunity to work

with them developing their sets

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of values over the past year.

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And we've had quite a lot of fun doing it.

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And I've arrived at what I hope, and

you're gonna hear more from both of them.

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They can speak to it, but a set of

values for each of them that's really

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reflective of who their business

is, what they care about, and how

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they would love to see their folks

show up in service of those values.

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Madeline, I'm gonna come to you first.

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Love to hear you just share

a little bit about yourself.

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What does Stoke do and why do

you personally care about values?

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Madeleine Drake: Thank you, Bev.

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I'm very excited to be here.

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The values project for Stoke in

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of my favorite things to work on.

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So, a little bit about myself.

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My name is Meline Drake or Madeline

Drake, and I'm the Director of

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People and Culture here at Stoke.

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I like to also believe that, we bring

our whole self to work, and I like to

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share the other facets of who I am.

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So, I'm a mother, a snowboarder,

a poet, and a lifelong learner.

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Stoke leads organizations

to decarbonize now.

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we integrate expertise in ESG and

sustainability consulting in carbon

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engineering and project delivery

to support owners and clients

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from the enterprise to the asset

level to provide them with the

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the strategy and the management

and technical support to translate

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their bold commitments into action.

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And we're also a B Corp certified company.

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So for me, because we've got these

big, bold clients taking these

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big, bold actions, we really need

values to support us in that work.

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And that's why I believe that, it's

important to talk about these values

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and how they translate into action.

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Bev Attfield: Brilliant.

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Thanks Madeline.

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I can, attest firsthand to, you know, how

you have beautifully been able to bring.

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Your humanity and your humility

as well to the process of finding

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and crafting values, right?

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And infusing that with this really

authentic sort of feeling around

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what it means to be at Stoke,

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That's a true extension of the

things we care about and the

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impact that we wanna have at Stoke.

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Sabrina, I'm gonna come to you.

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Same question.

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Can you share a bit about yourself?

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What does, shift do and why do

you personally care about values?

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Sabrina Banadyga: Yes, thank you, Bev.

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it's amazing to be here.

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My name is Sabrina, VP Marketing at Shift.

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My career is centered around

storytelling, and I'm passionate about

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connecting users or customers with

the solutions to their pain points.

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That's what I get up to do every day.

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At Shift, I get the privilege of

blending creativity and strategy.

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Building a brand that really does

reflect both innovation and integrity.

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And one of the things that I've been

observing in the last couple years is

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without integrity, it's difficult to

have innovation in a meaningful way.

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I, will talk more about values in

this call, but I found the process of

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creating values within people was really.

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It brought meaning in ways that

I've never quite experienced

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before with the creation of Values.

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Shift is a browser that simplifies

people's way of managing their digital

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lives, their digital workflows.

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It unifies apps.

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It's the world's most

customizable browser.

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It brings all accounts, apps, extensions

into one place and helps individuals and

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teams cut through that digital clutter.

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Having more focus, getting

more meaningful work done.

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Ultimately at shift, we don't believe that

productivity is about getting more done.

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It's about doing what matters.

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And at shift We absolutely work

hard and we also work smarter.

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through the product, it

unlocks the ability to do that.

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Values matter.

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They've always mattered to me.

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I've done lots of different leadership

courses in values, values based

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leadership, and I care deeply about

values and how they show up every day

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for our teams and customers in the

fast moving tech environment, which is.

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What we're in at shift values

have helped us anchor keeping us

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aligned and authentic and human.

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They don't, my, the values at

shift don't just guide how we

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work, but how we live and, show up.

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One of the things I've been reflecting

on too is that I don't, that success

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really isn't measured by results.

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how we actually achieve them.

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Then the impact that success

metric leaves behind.

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We are a carbon neutral browser

and that impact and what we're

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leaving behind or not leaving

behind as a result of our product

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is very much anchored in our values.

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Bev Attfield: Thanks, Sabrina.

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What I'm hearing from both of you is

the meaning behind what we do, right?

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I think that you're both in very human

centric businesses, but you are impact

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and purpose led, you care about the

way that you are going about doing

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your business and building the product

servicing your clients and having the

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outcomes feel like a meaningful experience

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The world and the people that

are in it as you go about that.

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I think that's ultimately,

what values help us do, They

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help us articulate and express.

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different companies obviously

have different values.

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Some have the same, but the meaning

is different to each company,

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But.

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Are ultimately those guideposts for us

to understand whether or not we're on

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track with how we're showing up together.

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Right.

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And without them, it becomes

a bit chaotic, right?

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And it becomes a little bit harder to

keep everyone aligned on where we wanna

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be pointing with our North Star, right?

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so, thank you both.

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You said it best.

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I had thought Should I

introduce each of you?

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And then I thought, you know what

I really wanna hear in your own

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words, what these topics mean to you

and hear from you about what your

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businesses are achieving in the world.

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But speaking of the world, we're gonna

start at a very high context level here

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I'd like to play a little bit

around understanding why values

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are key to building workplace

culture today more than ever.

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I think we all appreciate the feeling

of the business landscape today,

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whether it's due to economic shifts.

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Disruption thanks to ai.

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Hybrid work continues to be a gnarly

problem that we have not yet solved

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as a fallout from the pandemic.

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And just generally, the philosophical

shifts happening around the world driven

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by politics and socio political topics

are really putting strains on business

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And are starting to put some pressure

on, you know, standing up for building.

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People centered, kind, caring workplaces

where we really are looking after people.

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that's why I think that talking about

values today is really critical to

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making sure we are holding firm on

the things that we really believe in.

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And just recently I saw a news

article shared by one of our

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partners around one of the founders

of Ben and Jerry's Ice Cream.

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Stepped away, stepped and has not wanted

to continue in with that business,

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which is owned by Unilever, I believe,

because he believes that he cannot see

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Ben and Jerry's original set of values

continue to be lived in that context.

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So we're seeing that, and that's just

one example, where either people are

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standing up and saying, we can't back

down from what we believe is true.

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To the other end of the spectrum, Where

people are capitulating and saying they

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will align with whatever the current

way of thinking is about the world and

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not what they believe is right for their

business according to their values.

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I think we're in quite a prickly

time right now, I'm not going to be

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facilitating a political conversation

here, but I think we need to acknowledge

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that we're living through some

interesting and challenging times.

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the first question I have.

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For Madeline and Sabrina is, and maybe

Madeline, I'll come to you first.

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Why did you prioritize

articulating values for Stoke?

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When we did?

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Why this time?

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Why now?

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Madeleine Drake: Yeah.

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Bev Attfield: So

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Madeleine Drake: Stoke has had,

a set of values used for several

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years, and Stoke acquired a Canadian.

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Sustainability consulting firm last

year, we believed it was the right

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time for a refresh, a unifying,

catalyzing moment to set us forward in

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the next several years Stoke is here

to boldly catalyze an environmentally

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restorative and socially equitable world.

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That's a really bold ambitious,

Daunting, inspiring, exciting, purpose.

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And in order to retain, engage, motivate,

inspire the team members that we have,

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we need a set of guiding principles.

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A North Star, to get us

to where we need to go.

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the power of these words,

I believe, will support.

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Us in energizing, and getting us to that

purpose we're boldly trying to achieve.

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Bev Attfield: Yeah, that's a really

important point, Madeline, that values

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don't just exist for the sake of values.

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they are part of a cultural framework that

needs to have a guiding life that gives us

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the reason why we would have those values.

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Right?

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Thanks Madeline.

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Sabrina, how about you?

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There was also an interesting context

for how we arrived at the need to have

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a set of values for your business.

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So tell us more.

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Sabrina Banadyga: there were two

companies that merged together and

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they each had their own set of values.

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They, they weren't, the values weren't in

conflict we needed a shared foundation.

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We're, building, something very

disruptive in a crowded space.

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Two cultures coming together.

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So our values to exercise, we, we knew

we just didn't wanna do this exercise.

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To have slogans to put on a

wall but actionable behaviors

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that hold us accountable.

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They connect us to each other.

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And to our customers and we needed that.

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We have a remote team and

to have something to anchor

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was really important to us.

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articulating the values was a fascinating

thing when we went through this exercise,

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is that it meant codifying the culture

that we already felt in practice so that

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as we scale and we have exponentially

scaled over the last couple of years.

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We just never lose the heartbeat

of who we actually are.

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Bev Attfield: I love that idea

of bottling up, what it means

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to be here and be us, right?

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That's one way we can describe what

values are, It's a way to codify what

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it means to be here, and that's really

important particularly in times of

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uncertainty or rapid change, we need

it for business as usual moments.

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But, I'm curious about in your both of

your experience, how have the values

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that you have as you come through this

evolution for both of you, interestingly

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that you both arrived at a set of values

through some sort of evolutionary process.

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How do values help you stay grounded

in your businesses with your people in

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times of uncertainty or rapid change or

some moment of triage for the business?

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Sabrina, maybe I'll come to you first

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Sabrina Banadyga: Yeah.

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Well, being in tech, there's rapid change.

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Madeleine Drake: You're always in triage.

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Sabrina Banadyga: Yes.

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Always.

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And while it's exciting, I love it.

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I wouldn't be here if I didn't At the same

time, markets are shifting constantly.

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Priorities we're pivoting constantly to

keep up, to get ahead, and we have to

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be agile values have really anchored us.

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one of our values, for

example, is connect with heart.

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It reminds us to lead with empathy

even when things are really hard.

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And even another value, for

example, is go together.

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And this is something that has

ensured that no one's, no one

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feels isolated when things get

hard, that no one's left behind.

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We are in this together.

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We wanna see each other succeed.

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And I've never been in a

culture that embodies that to

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the degree that shift does.

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Like I mentioned before, it's not

just because we went through a values

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exercise, we just needed to articulate it.

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They definitely give us confidence when

context changes the way we show up for

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each other and our customers really

remain steady in tumultuous times.

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Bev Attfield: I love that.

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Thank you also for sharing some

examples of your values that really

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gives some detail and color here too.

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Something you said around the confidence,

when the context changes, when you all

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know that you can hold onto something

that is constant, even though things are

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changing, Is a really powerful part of

what I'm hearing about your experience.

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Sabrina Madeline, how about for

you, what whatcha seeing in terms

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of how you're using values to

help ground you and guide you?

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Madeleine Drake: Yeah, so

our values keep us focused.

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I mean, the world is noisy and messy

and difficult, and they keep us

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tethered to where we are aimed to go.

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they allow us to keep centered

accountable and in our lane.

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one of the things they have

helped us do is develop processes

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and tools internally to.

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Put action towards our commitments.

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for example, we created,

what we call an issue tree.

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this is what we refer to

when events happen outside

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of stoke that impact stoker.

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And we need to decide how as leaders,

we're going to respond to those events.

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sometimes those events are directly

tied to our purpose or impact, a

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multitude or a majority of our stoker,

in which case we have different

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actions that we take accordingly.

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the issue tree is like a decision tree.

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It's a decision making tool steeped in

our values and gives us a map to respond

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in alignment with our values to events

impacting us directly or indirectly.

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This has been a really helpful way

for us to guide decision making,

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especially on zesty, hairy topics.

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just this last weekend, there was

an executive order published in

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the US related to immigration.

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we have stoker that have immigration

statuses that were going to be affected.

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this decision tree embedded in our values.

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Helped leadership come to a decision

around how to, care deeply, which is one

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of our values, and own our responsibility

and our accountability to communication

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with leaders, with the peoples

directly affected with the company.

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And so this, this is one example

of how Stoke is living, our

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values in this tumultuous time.

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Bev Attfield: What I'm hearing in that

too, Madeline, is it's not just whether

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or not you respond, right, but it's

the how of the response that's really

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important and where the values reveal

themselves as useful and critical

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to the experience of the moment.

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without those values.

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You don't have that calibration point

of like, what should this feel for

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us when we respond to these moments?

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Like the example you mentioned

with the immigration issue.

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I'm appreciating the examples you're both

sharing and I hope our audience will, you

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know, really take away like the intention

that you are both bringing as well to

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where the values start to arrive for us.

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Right.

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And that leads us into our next

topic set, which is around.

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What transformative

values look and feel like.

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I think in both of the, examples you

both shared, you know, you could have had

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values that just were statements, right?

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But that didn't actually give

you the guidance to, well,

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how should we use this value?

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And what are the things that are

important to us as a business?

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Behavior that align

and support that value.

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in my experience, all values

aren't created equal many times.

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Probably more often than not, values

are written without clear supporting

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behaviors that lead to action and impact

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After all, values aren't really about

the words, even though the words are

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incredibly powerful and important.

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Transformative values are the ones that

intentionally help us shape and build our

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culture because they're designed to have

clear actions and behaviors set out so

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that there's no doubt what it means for

us to show up for each of those values.

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Right.

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Sabrina, I'm gonna come

to you for this one.

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In your experience, you've gotten your

hands dirty, building the values that we

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built together over the past year, and

you've had other experiences with building

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values as well, but what is the difference

between a value that's simply good?

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the words sound great, but they don't

really take action versus a value that

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actually transforms how people show up.

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Sabrina Banadyga: Yeah.

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words like honesty or trust,

how do you not agree with that?

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a transformative value is behavioral.

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It's unique to the culture,

that was the cool experience

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about coming up with our values.

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We did it as an entire company.

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It wasn't just the leadership

team in a boardroom One of

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our values, do hard things.

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asks us to try new ways to

seek feedback, to turn, turning

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failure into learning opportunity.

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So that an example of a value.

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It really challenges us to show up

differently and not just not along.

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We've had ex many different experiences.

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Pre-product launch in July, post-product

launch that I often indexed to every day.

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Like we do hard things.

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This is hard.

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it's part of who we are.

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We just do it and we get through it.

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I think that's the transformation

that I've seen, especially in

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comparison to other workplaces, other

cultures where we didn't have that.

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We didn't have anything to

anchor us into transformation.

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Bev Attfield: Yeah.

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And I think that there's another

dimension to the value set as well.

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Sabrina, when you talked about your

value of do hard things, and that

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you really do embody that value.

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But what you've got and why this is also

transformative is in your set of values.

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You've got a bit of a counterbalance

with Connect with Heart, which is

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one of your other values, So it's not

just falling into the shadow side of

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doing hard things all the time, but

you've gotta counter that with how

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are you connecting with heart when you

are showing up to that set of values.

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So maybe speak a little bit about,

where else does that show up and

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why is that important that we have

those counterbalances in the values

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Sabrina Banadyga: That's

such a great question.

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It's coming off the heels of A couple

conversations that happened yesterday.

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There was the hard thing that we needed

to do, and I am a bit of a grinder.

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I wanna get it done, I wanna go fast

and we need to make quick decisions.

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Let's test it.

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see if it's working,

and then iterate on it.

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And in that drive there can also.

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A bit of friction, and

that's, that's natural.

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That is part of what's hard.

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But without pulling myself out of just

get it done and into, I need to have a

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heart to heart with this person about

this hard thing, it wouldn't have

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felt as good at the end of the day.

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It would've felt more like

a grind rather than like a

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meaningful progression forward.

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interesting.

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Bev Attfield: Yeah.

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So I mean, values are transformative

in that they compel us to focus on

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the experience that we're having with

other humans that are in this with us.

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And I think that's really where we start

to see transformative values shine,

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Is where we can really start to use

them in the day to day as well, Like

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you're doing with the rest of your team.

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Madeline, any thoughts from you?

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I'm gonna come to you with another

question in a moment, but any thoughts,

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about, the difference between a

good value and a transformative

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value from your perspective?

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Madeleine Drake: I wanted to add

that I think one of the things

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Sabrina said that really stood out

to me is the uniqueness of values.

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They are unique because we are unique.

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And that's perhaps how you can tell that

the values are solid because they are us.

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They are true.

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Our essence, they feel like they

are a reflection of who we are

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and who we want to continue to be.

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sometimes it's hard to bring a hundred

percent of our best selves every

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day, on days where we feel like we're

only bringing 30% of our best self.

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The values remind us who we are

on our best days and who we wanna

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continue to be going forward.

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And that's important because the world is

Tough They help us and provide structure

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as a support system to move us forward.

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Bev Attfield: Yeah.

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That's such a critical aspect of

transformation in my mind, around like,

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values aren't just who we are today.

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Like, they're not just a, you know,

expression of who we are and what we know

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to be true about ourselves, but they've

gotta have an edgy aspiration to them

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that can pull us forward into the future.

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Right.

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And that's why when we go

through these journeys with.

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Clients sometimes we arrive with a

challenge around, where's the edge

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in the value that you're offering?

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How do you make it a productive, energetic

set of words that can propel you forward?

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It isn't just, oh, well

this is who we are today.

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I love that you revealed that,

parting values made you okay.

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Sabrina and Madeline, we've been

through values journeys together.

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We've done some incredible work together.

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And I've really enjoyed the journey.

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I think you both have too, but the

juicy question that I'm holding, and

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I've been ruminating about for a while,

is, can AI write transformative values?

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So we've just talked about what

transformative values look like.

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Do you think AI can

write values like that?

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No.

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Madeleine Drake: It's a simple Hell no.

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No, it cannot.

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Okay.

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Say more.

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AI is an excellent tool

to stress test values.

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It provides another perspective.

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It allows you to, it's a great critiquing.

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Tools.

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So you can ask it multiple questions.

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Looking for bias, trying to challenge

what you are crafting, That's helpful,

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and has certainly been part of our process

as we've created our values at Stoke.

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However, it's artificial intelligence.

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It's not real relational.

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True.

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Steeped in experience intelligence, and

that is critical foundational to creating

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transformative values in order for the

values to be unique like we were just

442

talking about, in order for the values to

reflect us and who we want to continue to

443

be going forward, they need to come from

us, they must be of us, and come from

444

a place of truth and lived experience

there's no way that AI can possibly know

445

what it's like to feel like a stoker.

446

AI is not a stoker, and so it doesn't

know what truly moves us to action

447

or inspires us So while it's a good

tool it cannot be the designer.

448

Agreed.

449

Bev Attfield: completely agree.

450

I think there's a yet that we have

to put in there though, because

451

I think once we reach artificial

general intelligence we're gonna be

452

quite astounded at how experiential

and relational the robots can be.

453

Right.

454

And we most certainly will be finding

ourselves having this conversation,

455

in different ways, over time.

456

But yes, ultimately AI cannot

really do the function that is at

457

its core, a very human experience.

458

Right.

459

And I love what you mentioned about

using AI for aspects of building values.

460

It's incredible how powerful that

aspect of AI is to help us test our

461

own thinking and make sure we're not

slipping into stereotypes and biases.

462

Which is a really important

part of that tool.

463

It's gonna be really interesting

to see what happens over time.

464

Madeline, I wanna ask you a follow up

question, and it's something that we spoke

465

about in our prep for this call, where

you were talking about another definition

466

of ai, which is artificial intimacy.

467

Yes.

468

And I wonder, like, I was super curious

about what that was, and I know that

469

Brene Brown and Esther Perel, have

been talking about that extensively,

470

but can you give the listeners just a

little bit of a snapshot of why did you

471

bring that up and why is that important

472

Definition for us to

be paying attention to.

473

Madeleine Drake: I think as we embed

AI in the ways that we work, we must

474

also at the same time be thinking about

how we are making sure that we are not

475

creating cultures of artificial intimacy.

476

let's look at how we can take

advantage of AI to support

477

our work and grow our impact.

478

Yet we must also have one eye on, you

know, what I just said, but then also

479

have the other eye on our people and

ensuring that we aren't creating spaces.

480

that feel artificial, we must continue

to nurture and care for our people.

481

that combination of utilizing the

tool to grow our impact and our

482

technical abilities is fantastic.

483

And if you can combine that

with growing the relational

484

intelligence of an organization.

485

That combination, I think is what

catapults us into the leading edge

486

of our markets and industries.

487

Bev Attfield: Yeah, I think there's

some guidance being offered as I've

488

been reading more broadly around AI

and how it's gonna impact workplaces

489

and the shift to society at large.

490

how do we start to determine what

are the human led functions and

491

what are the AI led functions?

492

I think maybe looking through the

lens of artificial intimacy might

493

give us some clues around what are

the things we must protect as humans?

494

what are those special things

that we as humans do that we

495

shouldn't be looking to replace?

496

Technology that might be offered to us.

497

Sabrina, any quick thoughts from you

on AI's ability to write transformative

498

values and would you have used a bot

instead of people to build your values?

499

Absolutely not.

500

Sabrina Banadyga: I love ai, but it

generates copy, I don't feel like it

501

can differentiate between something like

toxic positivity or genuine empathy.

502

the human nuance, which.

503

You guys have both been saying is

what makes values transformative.

504

Bev Attfield: Yeah, 100% agree.

505

speaking of the humans making values

transformative, I want to wrap up with

506

our third topic getting practical about

how do we take those values off the wall

507

or slide deck and actually into practice.

508

for us, it within people, like we have

a way of architecting values that have

509

behaviors hardwired into the value itself.

510

We also have all of our values start

with a verb so that you are immediately

511

expressing that there is an action

involved with that value, it isn't

512

just trust or honesty as one word.

513

Values, right?

514

There's actually an expression with

a verb, but all that being said.

515

That's fair.

516

And well, we can wire the actions

into the phrasing of the value, but

517

how do we actually live those values?

518

Right?

519

And so the questions that I'd love

you to, lead us into here, Sabrina,

520

I'll come to you first on this one,

is what doing at shift to actually

521

move beyond the words with your values

and the sentiment of your values and

522

the feeling that those values create.

523

And impact and really the ways that you

work together is what it comes down to.

524

Right.

525

So, whatcha doing?

526

Can you give us some examples?

527

Sabrina Banadyga: Yeah.

528

at shift we, bake our values

into rituals and, systems.

529

One very fun thing we did this year.

530

We've, we've had a year runway to have

some fun and bake these, these values

531

in, in our company offsite in July.

532

We, we hadn't started with an

annual award ceremony, one of the

533

evenings that we called the shifty.

534

we.

535

Called on our shift to nominate their

colleagues for awards tied to our

536

four values and purpose statement.

537

there were five winners.

538

We offered them a financial gift.

539

A additional day off to take in

the year, and then we made custom

540

bobbleheads of them instead of trophies.

541

some of them are in their office,

some of them ended up on family

542

mantles in the living room next to

the graduation picture from college.

543

that Landed so well with the team.

544

We had a ton of fun and everybody

laughed and cried and hugged, in

545

our hiring process, we used values

to inform stages of recruitment.

546

So we really wanna ensure that

our new teammates kind of really

547

embody the culture from day one.

548

We weave them into one-on-ones

into our Slack channels.

549

Every company offsite, we do live.

550

Giy filming, on a green screen.

551

we've created custom gies for each

value that we'll share around Slack

552

and call out people for acknowledging

that they're embodying these values.

553

And so I think it's almost

like what doesn't it touch?

554

'cause we, we do weave it in

to a lot of different aspects

555

of what we do on a daily basis.

556

Bev Attfield: I like that sentiment

of what doesn't touch, because

557

if there's a shifty involved.

558

The value should be evident, right?

559

you've taken such an expansive

approach to thinking about every

560

dimension of your business and the

functions in your business using it

561

for, you know, things like product

conversations and decision making and.

562

Strategic roadmap is even informed

by your, your purpose and values.

563

you've done a brilliant job of thinking

about the practical living of the values

564

the measuring of them And the celebration

of them, which is such an important

565

aspect of creating the norm for people to

lean into those values and embody them.

566

Sabrina Banadyga: We're baked into the

567

And at the top of our trail map for

568

the pillars of what we were

working were underneath that.

569

So we knew like everything we

were doing does it ladder up to

570

what we said we were gonna do.

571

that also helped us with strategic

planning, as you were just mentioning.

572

Bev Attfield: Yeah.

573

And there's some real clarity that comes

from that it takes away some of the

574

questions that have to be asked, and helps

everybody align around their day to day.

575

Right.

576

Because after all, we all come to our

workplaces and we are a collection

577

of all people that are there.

578

Right.

579

If people are.

580

By and large leaning into and using the

values in their day to day, you must

581

eventually start to feel like there's a

palpable way of being in that culture,

582

yes, people are gonna have different.

583

words and are gonna show up differently

because of being unique individuals.

584

But I love what you're talking about

there, Sabrina, Iran finding those ways

585

where like, where doesn't it show up?

586

And the question is, well it

shows up everywhere, right?

587

So, awesome.

588

Madeline, anything to add to that

before we go to the next question?

589

I think Sabrina captured it well.

590

Yeah, I think that's good.

591

Alright.

592

Question for you, Madeline, as you've

been on this journey to create and

593

involve the values at Stoke, and I know

that you've had other experiences before

594

developing and implementing values,

but help our listeners understand

595

like what are some of the lessons

you've learned along the way, right?

596

Around how do we create this really

important set of codified words

597

that express who we're as a culture.

598

Madeleine Drake: The thing that

comes up for me is that it's a

599

creative process, and I think

about the process of creating art.

600

you don't just end up with an

awesome painting done right away.

601

It takes time to sculpt or to

paint, or to write a novel, right?

602

similarly.

603

it takes a lot of time to do well, and

part of that time commitment is consulting

604

with the right stakeholders, with the

right groups of people that reflect

605

are, are gonna reflect and provide the

stress and challenge needed and the

606

rigor needed to ensure that those unique

values are a reflection of who we are

607

and who we say we want to continue to be.

608

The time commitment and the commitment to

doing it well, and I think what surprised

609

me was how joyful of a process it was.

610

I told, I said right at the very beginning

when I was introducing myself, this was

611

one of my favorite projects of the year

because of its creative nature, because

612

it's got this messy kind of element

of like you're in the moment trying to

613

come up with better and more aligned

words to who you are as an organization.

614

it was really fun for me.

615

And so that caught me by surprise,

how actually joyful that was.

616

Bev Attfield: And what do

you think made it joyful?

617

so that folks who are listening to this

and you know, they might need to be

618

pitching a values project or knowing that

they need to transform their values to

619

maybe the C-suite and they're not sure

how to talk about a journey or, or pitch

620

a journey that could be joyful because.

621

It just feels like it's a waste of time.

622

It's gonna take a lot of effort.

623

Why do we need to include other voices?

624

Can we not just as the execs sit

in the room like Sabrina, you were

625

saying that's not what you did.

626

that can feel heavy for people to try

and get approval for their journey.

627

So what made it fun and joyful for you?

628

Madeleine Drake: aside from working

with within who are fabulous partners

629

to Stoke who I've said it in the word

partnership, it feels so wonderful

630

to, to be working with within, aside

from that, joyful experience, I mean,

631

really you have to ask yourself,

are you a people first organization?

632

are you truly committed to creating a

culture where you want people to show

633

up in their values, in your values, and.

634

The answer is yes.

635

Then you have to do the hard thing

like Sabrina was just mentioning,

636

and take that commitment and

take it true, true to heart.

637

what makes it joyful is the

experience of being with your

638

people while you're crafting it.

639

And so if you are truly a people

and culture first organization,

640

then you understand the importance

And the time that is required to

641

put into the relationship with your

people to get to know your people,

642

to make sure that the values you

create, truly reflect the collective.

643

And that's a joyful experience for me.

644

Bev Attfield: Yeah, it's probably one

of the most important things that a

645

business can do is defined and articulate.

646

What they stand for.

647

Right.

648

And taking the time and making the

investment in it is well worth it

649

because it gives you the ability

to bring everybody along in so many

650

different ways that really help your

bottom line at the end of the day.

651

every person's experience is different.

652

Sabrina.

653

Feel free to build on what

Madeline, was talking about.

654

But if you can find a way to frame

this as something that is incredibly

655

enjoyable and co-creative, it can

take you that much further, I believe.

656

So Sabrina, anything to add

from your side of things around,

657

lessons learned along the way?

658

Sabrina Banadyga: I think.

659

I'm gonna answer that, but I wanted

to also add something that I said in

660

a presentation at our company offsite,

was that our purpose and our values

661

power the people and that the people

power the performance and that the

662

performance powers the possibilities.

663

And so that is something that we've

seen that shift in terms of starting

664

with like, why are we doing this?

665

It's, it does have a bottom line.

666

It's can be sometimes hard

to articulate that, but.

667

I would say some of the lessons that I

have learned in this process and have

668

seen in my own personal life is that

values really only matter if the leaders

669

embody it and if they model them visibly.

670

if we say we go together as our

value, but we operate in silos,

671

then the value collapses and it

creates the opposite of engagement.

672

consistency matters

673

and if not lived from the top,

they can't thrive elsewhere.

674

It's not easy to show up every

day to our values and purpose.

675

We're human beings in a human body in

this wild world, and it can be very.

676

Challenging.

677

Some values may be easier to show

up to than others, but through that

678

experience, we can support each other

maybe I'm a bit more of an independent

679

contributor acting like that right now.

680

I need to rally.

681

And work more across departmentally

rather than just within marketing

682

on this exercise because

it needs to impact product.

683

We need to talk to customer service.

684

So there's lots of layers of that

685

Bev Attfield: Yeah.

686

Thanks Sabrina.

687

And that's actually a good segue into

our closing question as we wrap up here.

688

I wanted to ask for both of you

to offer a few words of advice

689

for others who have great values.

690

But they dunno how to activate them.

691

And Sabrina, you already gave a

big clue there around it's gotta

692

start with the leaders, right?

693

what other couple of words of advice

might you both have to offer, about where

694

people start to activate the values?

695

Madeleine Drake: I have a bit

of a motto for myself this

696

year that I've been trying to.

697

Implement at work.

698

And it's this, it's actually an

acronym and it's, it's a ISS and we

699

actually say, keep it Simple, Stoker.

700

And it's this concept that like,

oftentimes the solution is so much

701

simpler than you think it needs to be.

702

rather than thinking of complex ways to.

703

Embed or launch a, you know, insert

action verb, the values, like actually

704

what's the simplest thing that you can do?

705

Like how do you, how can you reach

people in a really simple manner?

706

that's been really helpful for us this

last year and yeah, connecting with

707

people and getting to know really what

it is for them, that makes 'em tick.

708

And trying to weave the values

simply into that connection.

709

Sabrina?

710

Sabrina Banadyga: Yeah, I love that.

711

I think starting small and just making

it a behavior, it's, it doesn't, I

712

think sometimes it can feel like this

big thing to take on, but similar to

713

keeping it simple, it's starting small.

714

And we often say like, what would it

look like in our next meeting project

715

initiative or quarter if we just chose a

value and said, what would it look like

716

if, if I embodied this really kind of

building rituals around those actions

717

until they become second nature and

actually sacred, it doesn't, you know,

718

transformation isn't just gonna happen in,

in a, in a single webinar or in a single.

719

Event it's an accumulation of

those lived behaviors over time.

720

Bev Attfield: Yeah, that's a great point

to end on around this being a journey.

721

there might be a destination, but it

really is about the journey and sometimes

722

that journey takes longer than you might

expect, it is the accumulation of many

723

simple actions that add up to the feeling

we create when we are living our values.

724

Well, thank you both.

725

This has been a really conversation.

726

I'm gonna put you both on the spot very

quickly, and ask you to end by sharing.

727

If values had to be a song or a

book for you, what would it be?

728

If you had to pick something that

would be your anthem or your go-to

729

book or values, what would it be?

730

I

731

Madeleine Drake: don't even know

that I know this song that well,

732

but when you asked that question, I

of the Tiger came up for me, Rocky.

733

There's something joyful.

734

One of our values is Stoke joy.

735

It just felt playful and

action oriented and, strong

736

Bev Attfield: I'm gonna

go with get it done right?

737

Madeleine Drake: I'm gonna go with Io the

Tiger, even though I can barely sing it.

738

Love it.

739

Bev Attfield: Love it.

740

Sabrina, how about you?

741

Sabrina Banadyga: I can't remember

the exact name of the book.

742

it has, something to do with.

743

Zig Zig when others are zagging

it's a brand book and I'm a brand

744

geek, so this book really codifies

what we've been doing at shift.

745

Like, are we gonna do it because

everybody else is doing it

746

or are we gonna not do it?

747

Else is doing it and we're gonna

go over here and do this thing.

748

Bev Attfield: Brilliant.

749

I love having that as sort of

the guiding, like just be a

750

bit weird and different, right?

751

Don't follow the herd.

752

And that absolutely is

expressed in your values.

753

thank you both so much.

754

I'm so grateful that I have had

the opportunity to work with

755

both of you and continue to work

with both of you in other ways.

756

You know, just really appreciate

that we are having this conversation,

757

and I hope that it will continue

because as we know, business and

758

culture and people continue to evolve.

759

But the one constant that can

guide us is if we have a really

760

incredible set of transformative

values that help us navigate through.

761

Whatever we're facing

with our folks in our day.

762

So thank you so much for being here.

763

This has been really wonderful

and we'll at the next.

764

Thank you to our listeners

for tuning in today.

765

Really hope you found this time together

valuable and if you are a leader who is

766

wanting to be more curious, hope that

you feel more resourced coming out of

767

this today, thank you so much to Emily,

our producer, who always brings us

768

together and helps us to create this.

769

These brilliant episodes, which we

really hope will move the needle on the

770

experience that people have at work.

771

So please do tune in to our

podcast every month for more

772

episodes on what's happening in

the culture and leadership space.

773

What's on the minds of leaders committed

to change in our community and other

774

future of work content you crave.

775

Re imagining work from within is

available wherever you podcasts.

776

That's a wrap for today.

777

Thank you so much.

778

And we'll see you next time.