Mental health and work-life balance in the kitchen are of paramount importance within the hospitality industry, and this discussion is poignantly highlighted by our distinguished guests, Chef Ben Goldman and Tom Mitchell from The Burnt Chef Project. Chef Goldman, with his extensive experience across high-volume restaurants and advocacy work, illuminates the pressing need for healthier environments in culinary spaces. Tom Mitchell further expands on this critical dialogue, sharing insights into the mission of The Burnt Chef Project, which aims to foster awareness and provide resources for mental wellness within the sector. The episode delves into the transformative power of community and support systems, encouraging those in the industry to seek help and connect with peers. Listeners can expect an engaging exploration of the challenges faced by culinary professionals and the steps being taken to cultivate a more supportive and sustainable workplace culture.

In this enlightening episode of the Walk-In Talk Podcast, the spotlight is cast upon the vital yet often neglected discourse surrounding mental health and work-life balance within the culinary profession. Featuring Chef Ben Goldman, a culinary expert with a trajectory spanning various esteemed kitchens, and Tom Mitchell from the Burnt Chef Project, this episode serves as a compelling exploration of the challenges faced by culinary professionals. Goldman shares his personal narrative, revealing the intense pressures and emotional toll that come with working in high-stakes restaurant environments. He articulates a profound need for a cultural shift in the industry, advocating for increased mental health awareness and support systems to assist chefs in navigating their demanding careers.

Mitchell complements Goldman’s insights by elaborating on the mission of the Burnt Chef Project, which seeks to establish sustainable kitchens that prioritize mental well-being. He discusses the organization's initiatives aimed at fostering healthier work environments and dispelling the stigma associated with mental health issues. This dialogue underscores the importance of community and shared experiences as pivotal elements in addressing the mental health crisis affecting the hospitality sector. The episode also features a live segment from the California Restaurant Show, highlighting the evolving expectations of guests and the necessity of delivering not just exceptional food, but also profound hospitality experiences.

As the conversation unfolds, listeners are presented with actionable advice and resources to help cultivate a supportive and balanced professional life. The episode serves as a clarion call to the culinary community, urging individuals to seek help, engage in open dialogues, and contribute to a culture that values mental health as an integral component of success in the culinary arts. Through their candid discussions, Goldman and Mitchell illuminate the path towards a brighter, more supportive future for the hospitality industry.

Takeaways:

• This episode of the Walk-In Talk Podcast addresses the critical issue of mental health in the hospitality industry, emphasizing the urgent need for open conversations.
• Chef Ben Goldman shares his journey of recovery and the importance of finding a healthy work-life balance in a high-pressure culinary environment.
• Tom Mitchell discusses the mission of the Burnt Chef Project, which aims to provide resources for mental health support within the restaurant community.
• The podcast highlights the significance of community and connection in combating loneliness and substance abuse among hospitality workers.
• Listeners are encouraged to seek help through initiatives like Ben's Friends, emphasizing the importance of sharing struggles with those who understand.
• The discussion underlines that changing the culture of the hospitality industry requires not only support for employees but also a shift in customer expectations and behaviors.

You've just stepped inside the Walk and Talk podcast, number one in the nation for food lovers, chefs and storytellers.

I'm Carl Fiordini, your host, shining a light on the flavor, the hustle and the heart of the industry.

We're the official podcast for the New York, California and Florida restaurant shows, the Pizza Tomorrow Summit, the US Culinary Open at nafm, and the North American media platform for the Burnt Chef project, recorded at Ibis Images Studios where food photography comes alive.

I get the first bite.

Find out more info at thewalk and talk.com this week on the Walk and Talk podcast, we're diving into the most important conversations in hospitality today.

Mental health and work life balance in the kitchen.

Our main guest is Chef Ben Goldman, a Florida native whose career has spanned high volume restaurants in Miami, consulting abroad, but now allows him to give back to the industry through his work and advocacy with the Burn Chef project.

We're also joined by Tom Mitchell, who leads the Burnt Chef project in North America.

Tom will share insight into the organization's mission and the progress they're making to build healthier, more sustainable kitchens across the continent.

And finally, we'll feature a special insert from the California Restaurant show in Anaheim, a conversation with Preston Lee from the 30% rule, recorded live on the show floor.

Wow, it was awesome.

It's a packed episode with inspiration, honesty, and plenty of takeaways for anyone in the hospitality world.

Oh, yeah, Chef.

I mean, what an experience, right?

I mean, let me just set this up.

So you were going to fly in number one, right?

And this is just from like Fort Lauderdale, Tampa.

So it wasn't like a.

It wasn't a big deal, but everything got postponed, right?

There was a delay and then you're like, hey, you know what?

I'm jumping in the car and I'm heading up.

Which you did.

Went shopping late last night.

Pouring rain, the heavens opened up and the floods came.

It was crazy.

Yet we still did what we had to do.

We procured all the ingredients that we needed to do.

I just wanted to thank my buddy Richard Gallagher over at Kiawah, and he totally hooked up on the sashimi, so hell yes to that.

How did you like it?

This is.

This is the industry, right?

You know, when everything goes wrong, Murphy's Law, it can and will.

So, yeah, it was pouring yesterday.

Missed my flight in the morning, ended up renting a car, driving straight out here, and we made it happen.

You know, I think the only thing.

We were missing is like a, you know, a health inspector to pop in somehow that Would have been apropos.

I should have.

I should have rented a boat.

All right, so I want to.

I want to let everyone know that I do have on hold the.

Tom Mitchell, the head leadership of the Burn Shaft project.

We're going to usher him on here shortly.

I just want everyone to know that the man is here with us today.

So it's going to be a packed day.

Before we get into anything, Jeff, you.

You did some bangers, man.

What did you.

They were fun.

It was a good time, right?

Yeah, it was off the cuff.

It was fun.

Those dishes were super nostalgic of things that I used to make a long time ago.

I haven't tried or made some of those things in.

In quite a while, but the smells and the tastes, it was fun, man.

I just.

I enjoyed working with you guys.

I enjoyed the camaraderie.

I just enjoyed, you know, being here and doing something.

Yeah, but talk about.

Talk about the Mediterranean dish first.

Okay.

So I spent my last year of high school in Israel.

It was an option.

And, like, me and nine friends went and we lived in this, like, little commune, and every so often we go to Ben Yehuda street, which is located in the center of Israel, right in Jerusalem, and they're known for their shawarma and pita and laffa.

So the first dish that we did, we had some of that Aussie lamb that Aussie select that you had gotten us, the pastrami cure, which when you told me about it, my initial thought was, like, shawarma, perfect.

I want something soft.

I want something warm.

And I been playing around with pizza dough lately, and I was like, let's fry this pizza dough.

Let's fry it.

Let's make it nice and fluffy.

Let's put some lamb on top.

We'll get some feta.

We'll blend it up and make a sauce.

Garlicky feta y. Salty umami lamb dish.

And it was just like that.

It was like, you know, being back in Israel and eating that lamb for the first time, feeling like home.

And that's what I wanted, you know, Mediterranean food, my favorite.

You know, you can't beat it.

And, you know, so first of all, the.

The pizza dough and the.

The spice combo that you put on there was out of.

Out of this world.

Right?

You can just, like, John was just going to town on the pizza dough, but when you introduced the sauce, it was like an explosion, and it was fresh, and it was just freaking delicious.

I'm kind of pissed at you a little bit.

I'm a little upset.

What did I do wrong?

What?

You never did the dish before like that?

Yeah.

Particular way.

I just.

We just.

Just pulled some ingredients out, and we just.

We just came through and, you know, shout out to my friend Dante for hooking up with a quick pizza dough recipe.

On my way here, I needed something, and he's.

He's my buddy.

He's my go to whenever I need a quick dough recipe.

Well, it would.

It would have took me 35 years to figure that out, you're saying.

You know what I mean?

I eat.

I don't.

I'm.

I'm not the cook.

Well, now you know what you're doing.

You have it on video.

You could watch it forward, backward, reverse, on the toilet.

Whatever you want to do.

You know how to make it.

Now, why do you think I knew this?

You know, I. I see what you're up to.

You know what I'm up to, right?

I get the baddest chefs in town.

They come here, and I get to eat their stuff.

It's.

It's great.

You know, it's a terrific.

It's networking at its finest, is what it is.

Dish two, what was it?

So I used to work with this guy in Boston, Ken Oranger, who is like the OG and.

And he had me working at one of his Japanese contemporary Japanese restaurants called Uni.

And there was a dish on the menu that was like this Thai ceviche with tuna.

And it wasn't like anything else I'd ever had before.

And something that just stuck with me for the last 15 years, and I haven't made it since.

But for whatever reason, on my way here, I just wanted to recreate it, so I did.

So it was tuna.

It's a Thai vinaigrette we make with panela, which is like a cane sugar and then fish sauce and lime juice.

So it's got all those Thai, authentic Thai ingredients, coconut milk, and then, you know, the tuna, some fried garlic, shallots, lemongrass, and it's.

I don't know.

It's great.

It's.

It's.

It's a.

It's a refreshing dish.

I only wish that yesterday I had Will or Jordan.

A few of our guys would do cinematography with us.

I wish they were with us on our odyssey to get these ingredients.

Man.

You know, we started at, you know, Publix, which is like, all right, great.

You know, everybody knows that, and they have a lot of stuff.

But chef, he needed more, he needed extra, and he needed my life.

So we ended up.

I don't know where we were All I know is that it was.

It was hailing bucket size drops of water.

And we went into this like it was an Asian market and it was absolutely shady.

It was a front for sure, but.

Man, I swear it was.

That was something where it would have been part of a documentary.

Yeah, we needed a rowboat in order to get there.

We were driving through, like four or five feet.

That's what it felt like.

We weren't.

There was no.

Steering was no longer an option.

It was kind of like just let the current take you wherever you're gonna go.

And we floated to the right destination.

Thank God we made it.

And back.

All right, so your early spark with food, you started kind of young.

What drew you into the kitchen?

I think just like mixing and cooking and just like, just, just the combination of things.

I, I.

When I was younger, I really wanted to do something in the medical field.

I wanted to be a neuroscientist or some type of chemist.

I really loved science, and I, I just didn't do well in school.

That's.

That's just the truth.

I did well in high school.

I just didn't do well in college.

I got absorbed by, you know, the partying and all of the extracurricular activities.

And I came home and my mom was like, you're a really good cook.

And I had wanted to get a degree in something.

I'd wanted to do something, and I was just inspired.

I went and go looked at a culinary school.

I think it went to the Fort Lauderdale Institute and Johnson and Wales.

But when I went to Johnson and Wales and I saw those kitchens, it was like a laboratory.

They were so pristine.

Everybody was just rifled in their chef whites.

They looked super clean.

Everybody was clean cut.

And it was militant almost.

And structure has always attracted me at my core, at my default, I'm attracted to structure.

I just perform well in structured environments.

And, you know, that coupled with just like the beautiful facility they had, I just, I knew I wanted to at least give it a shot, and I did.

You know, I remember working for.

Well, I remember, I remember my.

One of my first classes was like international cuisine.

And the chef took me under her wing.

And she introduced me to Andrea Curto Randazzo.

Her husband, Frank Curtor Randazzo.

I think he was the chef at Aquavi at the time.

They owned a restaurant called Tallulah in Miami.

It was on 23rd and Collins.

Little Italian restaurant, rustic cavatelli pasta.

They did, like, nose to tail cooking, which was super cool at the time.

And I remember coming she came into the classroom and I see her behind the two way mirror and she points at me and she wags her finger and I go walking outside.

And I was nervous, but I felt like, you know, like, oh, I'm the man, you know, they want to talk to me.

And sure enough, she asked me if I wanted to come work for her.

And it was my first kitchen job ever.

There were guys there, they were, you know, much older than me.

Much cooler than me, too.

I was freaking nerd.

I got in there, I didn't know how to hold the knife properly.

And I remember burning my finger the first day I burnt my thumb on, I don't know, a sizzle pan or whatever.

And I guess the chef had every single server and employee in the restaurant come over and ask me if I was okay.

Thought everybody was being genuine.

So, yeah, my finger's fine.

I think I'm gonna blister up a little bit.

But, you know, did they.

Did they have you chop flour or drain all the hot water out of the coffee?

That came later on?

Yeah, yeah.

And then, and then the sous chef came up to me with a hot sizzle pan that had been sitting over an open flame for like, you know, all.

And he took it with a pair of tongs and he rolled up his sleeve and he just singed himself like nine times down his arm just to prove a point.

And I kept my mouth shut.

You know, that was the last time I ever complained about being burned in the kitchen.

Whoever said kitchens were toxic?

Whoever said that?

Well, you know, that's a good segue into the bird chef.

Well, yeah, because it can't be real, right?

So your formative years, right?

You trained in some high pressure kitchens early on, good or bad.

I know you have some lessons out of that, which kind of, you know, talk about segue into burnt chef.

You actually enjoy culinary.

And you took a hold of it very quickly, and that is what got you into some of these, you know, higher end kitchens.

But it also kind of got you into the life, the restaurant life.

Talk about that.

I think the quote unquote, restaurant life came before the kitchens.

But that was the.

That was the desire, that was the attraction as I realized that alternative lifestyle was welcome in the kitchen.

You know, guys were doing coke on the line, they were drinking, they were doing drugs after work.

I mean, you're in such a high pressure environment.

You're, you know, demanded perfection.

Your expectations are super high.

You're in a pressure cooker, you know, no pun intended.

When you're in the Kitchen.

And by the time you get finished, your adrenaline's pumping, you had a good shift with the boys.

You're looking forward to that shift.

Beer at the end of the night, and then you just want to get loaded, man.

You just need a release.

And for me, anything that I put in my body that felt good or took me outside of myself from the time I was 16 or 17 years old, I wanted to do that all the time.

And I felt like it was customary in the kitchen.

So I excelled really quickly cooking wise, and I was able to keep myself afloat.

It looked good on the outside.

Nobody questioned what was going on on the inside.

And that's where everything was kind of taking hold over me.

Know, I can really appreciate that.

I remember towards the end of my, my tenure of being in the building in restaurants, and I was still in my, I don't know, early, early to mid-20s.

And, you know, I started when I was about 15, you know, busboy, went through the whole gamut.

Ended up, you know, front of the house, management and, you know, server.

I did all this stuff in front of house.

But I do remember upon my initial exit, because I did circle back around to help some family out.

But it was to the point where, you know, the bartender, you go out at night, you go out until 8 o' clock in the morning, but when you get back to the, to your shift the next day, they're filling your, they're filling your styrofoam cup up with whatever you want.

You know what I mean?

So you're getting, you're getting hammered at work and, you know, for me, and I'm very blessed that I didn't have any.

I don't personally have the addictive gene, but I was so unhappy that I did that.

Like, it was just, I was, I was participating in that part of the life.

And I realized one day I was like, nah, this is no good.

This is just terrible.

I wish there was a burnt chef, you know, 20 years ago, 25 years ago.

Me too, Me too.

You know, I, you were just, you were, you were talking and I'm thinking about, you know, I just had like the perfect concoction.

When I worked in the restaurant, I'd wake up, I'd take something, I was good to go for 12 hours and I didn't come down.

I'd settle down with something at the end of the night and I was good for 18 hours.

I was 19, 20, 21 years old.

I could put anything in my system and get up the next day and scrub oysters for 12 hours if I needed to, and I'd pass out over that sink, but I'd be scrubbing those oysters.

That was one thing about me was as far as I fell, I was still always ambitious.

I had a North Star.

You know, there were principles.

My parents did instill good principles and morals inside of me, and those kept me going despite, you know, the debacle and all of the stuff that I put in my body at the time.

Again, it was normal.

I had told one of the stories when we first started about a chef who choked me out and told me that I couldn't say anything other than yes, Chef, or we chef in the kitchen.

I came from that divide before, when chefs were still in that part of that old archaic form of barking orders and, you know, throwing pots and pans.

And then I was also in that area when chefs started to realize that those sorts of behaviors weren't going to fly anymore and they weren't going to retain good cooks or chefs.

People would just pack their stuff up and they'd go find another job elsewhere.

There's lots of inspiring chefs out there, and there's lots of inspiring chefs that have a good head on their shoulders, too.

But can you share at what stage or what point in your culinary life that you decided that, you know what, I need to make a change?

I don't know if I made that decision.

I think life made it for me, and I became desperate enough to change something.

I really don't believe anybody can change unless they're desperate.

I remember being in Boston when I was 21.

It just turned 21.

I was legal drinking age, and I was drinking a lot, and I was spiraling out of control.

My parents came to visit me, and I was emaciated.

They were so concerned about me at the time.

I ended up coming back to Miami.

I finished school at Johnson and Wales.

I went back to school, and things got progressively worse before they got better.

You know, I was waking up in hospitals.

Happened not once, twice, three times.

Third time it happened.

Nobody was there.

I had no family there, no friends.

Everybody was kind of sick and tired of my behavior, of my selfishness.

And I remember, you know, going back home.

I couldn't.

I couldn't do anything.

And it was my dad.

My dad came into my room, and he offered his hand, and he said, listen, you've got a problem, and if you're willing to do something about it, there's help, and we'll help you.

We'll help you figure out what needs to be done.

In order to get you where you need to go.

And I felt so alone at the time that my dad had checked out a long time ago because I was crashing cars, I was getting arrested, I was waking up in hospitals.

I mean, nobody wanted anything to do with me, really.

And that was the first time that he opened his heart to me and told me that help was.

Was there if I was willing to take it.

And I said, yeah.

I was so desperate.

I was so.

My life had become so unmanageable at that point that I was willing to do something different.

Right?

Tell an egomaniac to do something different.

It definitely takes a certain bottom.

And I had hit my rock bottom at the time, and I went into treatment.

That was part of my story.

You know, I talk openly about it now.

I'm very transparent about my sobriety and about my recovery because I continue to work a program.

But back then, I went to treatment and I spent 30 days in a rehab center.

And I didn't even know.

I didn't know I belonged there.

I didn't know what I was doing there.

I didn't know that there was an other way of getting out of the hole I had dug myself.

But I was willing to do anything other than what I was doing at that point to get out.

And I remember some guys, I remember being in a room with, like, 40 other guys.

They were talking about some really heavy stuff, stuff that couldn't even wrap my head around at the time.

And I just felt so compelled to be honest.

Just honest.

Just a gut dump of things that I had been keeping inside for so long.

Pain and trauma and just stuff that I just didn't want to tell anybody.

And I raised my hand in front of a group of strangers, and I just vomited.

The gut dump of, like, anything that was meaningful at the time came out.

And I can remember that feeling afterwards.

I wanted to puke.

I felt so nervous.

I was like, what are they going to think of me?

I was more concerned about saving face than saving my ass at the time.

And a young guy next to me raised his hand and he was like, yo, bro, me too.

And he told his story and it was the same.

And that was the first time I felt like I wasn't alone.

And I think that was the beginning of recovery for me and then figuring out how to find work, life, balance after that.

But that was the beginning.

That was where I found myself.

Do you know it starts with for men.

Men love their mothers, and it's a special relationship, but when it comes to this this vein, this path, it's your dad.

If you have a father, it's your father that does it.

And it's your father that says, hey, man, I'm going to let you.

I'm going to let you eat crow for a little while.

You're going to fall on your face, and that poor man is going to, you know.

You know that he's suffering, right?

But there you are, you're eating your crow, and when you hit rock bottom, and hopefully it's not a situation where, you know, you're hospitalized for too long or worse, right?

At that stage, they come and they open.

They open themselves.

They open their heart, they open their mouth, and they say, hey, I'm here for you.

I've had, though, I. I've had that myself with my father.

And it's, you know, so I can.

I'm staring at you in your eyeballs, and I can.

I can see it and I can feel it, and I see what you're saying, right?

Thank God for fathers is all I will say.

Thank God for good men.

Good men, mentors, fathers.

Yes, that's all in the same breath.

Truthfully.

There's no other man on the planet that's going to love another man the way your father is gonna love his son.

Doesn't exist.

There's no other male that is gonna love another dude the way a father loves the son.

Doesn't happen.

So with that said, that's where we learn everything again.

If you're fortunate enough to have the father, some people, you know, whatever the circumstances are, death, they leave whatever.

They don't have that.

And that's where other men step in, and they're there for the support, and then the organizations and whatnot that are there for the support.

But, man, I'm just feeling your vibe, that's all.

I mean, sometimes I'll talk myself here into a stupor with these sort of topics.

So don't judge me.

You're speaking my language, you know, and this is a.

This is something that I focus on not only in the Burnt Chef project, but also in recovery is Young men need positive male role models, period.

Especially now.

I mean, look around.

And this also pertains to the kitchen, too.

It's not a chef's responsibility to father his cooks, but it's a chef's responsibility to lead by example and to be a positive role model.

I mean, when you're a young cook in the kitchen, you look up to that chef.

I mean, that chef is God in your eyes.

You want to know what he Knows you want to learn.

And you're constantly giving him your report card.

Look at my chives.

Look at my scallion.

Look what I did today.

And you want that pat on the back that you never get.

And when you do get it, there's no feeling like it.

My dad is a good man, and I'm very fortunate to have positive male role models in my life.

And my relationship with my father wasn't always great.

When I was, you know, sick and suffering, we were.

I don't want to say we were estranged, but we didn't have a great relationship.

But now, after being sober for a while and having rebuilt that relationship with my father, we're closer than we've ever been before.

Well, that's how it works.

When you're doing things that you know inherently are wrong, the last person you want to talk to or confront is your father or mother, for that matter.

Your parents.

You don't want them to know what you're up to because you know better.

And it's easier for someone to get help or advice or something from strangers, absolute strangers, before they're going to take any advice or guidance from their own parents.

Right.

It's the way that nature works.

It's unfortunate.

And then you go through your hell, you go through your struggles.

You get dragged through the mud and whatnot.

And then one day you're like, oh, my gosh, these people, they were looking out for me.

And then you have this, aha.

Like, wow, I figured it out.

And then that's where your relationship, you know, with your parents, with your dad, that's where that starts to develop and blossom.

And then by then, you're, you know, you're already into your manhood, and you're already into your, you know, 25, 30s and beyond.

And then it's almost too late.

You know, it kind of sucks.

It really does.

We squander all the best time because we don't know any better.

We're dumb.

We really are bad choices.

Dumb.

Tom, I know that you're on hold, and I know that you're hearing all of this.

I have to believe that you want to jump in and welcome to the program.

Yeah.

Hi, Carl.

Hi, Ben.

Hey, Todd.

And the first thing I want to say is, thank you, Ben.

That was brilliant.

Like, to stand up and explain and say what you say was amazing, and I really appreciate that because that's what's going to help get rid of the stigma in our industry.

You know, a couple of things I'd like to say.

One, and to what you were saying Carl, I'm going to quote John Wayne.

Bad things happen when good men don't step up.

And it's just the way it is if somebody doesn't do something.

This is why I'm doing this and this is why I'm so passionate about this.

I love this business but I love the people that are in this business and if it's not us who that's what it comes down to.

One other thing, Ben, when you were talking about culinary school, when I went to culinary school stock when wood stoves were popular, it was a situation where my favorite course was the science of food chemistry or food was brilliant.

And I've spent years now developing and engineering all kinds of foods including gluten free foods for my wife.

We really love the idea of being a cook and I won't use the word chef in this category because I look at as a cook, you take ingredients, you take like a chemical compound and you put it together and make something brilliant.

Was it should.

It's the joy I've always got out of ducking.

All right, for those who may not know, Tom, what's let's talk about the Burn Shaft Project for a minute and just your role in leading it across North America.

The Burn Shaft Project was created in the UK and it was created to provide awareness to ongoing mental health issues in the hostility industry.

We provide triage and therapy as required direction to associated groups and service and training for staff and management and owners.

Now we're also heavily into self care providing individuals with information to be better prepare them for the pressures and stresses both physical and mental.

My role is to set up Canada and the U.S. as a North American division of the project, creating the nonprofit corporations and eventual charities to be autonomous in our market.

And that's pretty much the whole organization where we are right now.

Well, I can tell you with assurance that you know, team walk and talk, we're all about it.

We're blessed to be a part of the organization in the capacity that we are.

And this particular podcast, this episode, today's production are one of many that will be Burnt Chef project focused.

So thank you for the opportunity.

You and Chris and Colleen and the gang.

No problem at all.

We had a blast at the California Restaurant show in Anaheim.

Let's have a listen to what Preston Lee has to say and give him a follow over at the 30 rule on Instagram.

Good food is not in demand.

Good food is saturated market.

What's in demand is an elevated hospitality experience.

And it's rare.

I started off in the industry as a busser.

I got moved up to a server.

Very aggressive.

I want to make that money.

I became an entitled server.

So it's all about me.

All about my tips, all about my shifts, all about when I get cut.

And I had a really bad attitude and it ended up getting me fired.

And I almost went homeless cuz I couldn't get another job.

I said something's got to change cuz I felt like a freaking loser.

That's why I decided to take ownership and realized I screwed up.

This is all my fault and I want to build myself up again.

So I land in a restaurant.

My focus was the guest experience.

If I, if I can get the guest to come back, then we'll be busy next week, next month, next year.

And all of a sudden people start asking for, for my section.

My GM noticed this.

We started putting a game plan together to start some learning and development.

We developed it, started teaching the other staff that the restaurant almost doubled in sales within 14 months.

That's when I understood the power of training and systems and guest experience.

I did that for about 10 years for different companies and they decided I want to go out and help independent restaurant owners develop these things that most million billion dollar companies have access to.

I want to develop those same things for them and give them access and the tools to be able to do.

It and affordability to be able to do it.

30% right?

You got food overhead, 30% labor trying to get down to 20%.

So it's focusing on the people, people development, developing your people to execute at a high level so that you can give your guests the best experience possible.

Brand value goes through the roof then and then customer attention upsells.

All that stuff falls behind as A5 products.

Our plan works on multiple levels, right?

Because we work with mom and pop shops and we work with somewhere like 50 units.

So the, the mom and pop shop, we need the systems and the infrastructure to grow and scale into our little shop.

Make sure we maximize profits.

We get ourselves off the floor.

The bigger groups are like, we need to learn how to grow at scale in order for my owner to not have to be in the restaurant and he can focus on building out the rest of the business.

And I can tell you, like Tyler Florence, we worked with him recently and he said, I go, what was your first job?

He goes I was a dishwasher.

I'm like how'd you, how were you as a dishwasher?

He goes I was the best freaking dishwasher.

I'll tell you.

That much, or at least I tried to be like, I had a freaking system.

I'd grab plates out of all the server's hands.

I was sweating every day, but I made sure I was the best dishwasher.

Now, Tyler Florence is, like, one of the most successful chefs in the world, arguably.

So focus on building yourself up and not building yourself down.

Chef Ben, so you have a connection with Burnt Chef.

What is it about their mission that resonates with you personally?

Well, I'm in my own recovery process, and I have a lot of experience working in kitchens.

So we're just.

It seems natural that, you know, we say in recovery, you can only keep what you have by freely giving it away and, you know, being of support when it's needed.

When the hand of recovery, you know, when.

When somebody in need of help reaches out, you know, the.

It's our job to reach back and help.

So I got affiliated with the Burnt Shaft program through somebody who I worked very closely with.

His name is Patrick Lingle.

We worked together at Planta restaurants.

He was the general manager.

I was the chef there for a while.

And, you know, we both had our journey and our process, and we became very close over time.

And I reached out to him because I had noticed that he had a part in the Bergshaft project, and he gives back a lot in the recovery community as well.

And I just wanted to.

To be a part of it.

And I was inspired.

I really wanted to be in that environment.

And I worked my way up to getting my cac, which is your certified Addiction counselor certification, which allowed me to have my own group of patients.

And I was counseling 17 people at the time, and some of which who also worked in the hospitality sector.

So it was only fitting that I helped the Burnt Chef organization.

And whenever I can be a part of giving back or helping out, I want to.

So in your personal journey and your experience so far, the good and the bad, how does that translate into your leadership style?

And not only your leadership style, but your career direction at this point?

So I had to find my own healthy work life balance, right?

And the kitchen.

I just kept finding myself in a burnout culture.

As evolved as kitchens in the hospitality industry has become, there is still a large part of the industry that hasn't.

And for me, it's difficult for me to find balance working in restaurants.

When I'm the executive chef at a restaurant, I feel like I own the Place I have to be there.

First one in, last one out.

Are you a cocky chef?

Is that what you're saying?

I mean, I have to admit this on camera, Absolutely.

Yeah.

We're letting it all hang out here.

It's so difficult to ask for help when you're.

When you're, you know, when you want to be the hero and you want to be the star, it's so difficult to reach out and ask for help.

And I've had to learn that the hard way over the years.

And, you know, through repeated experiences of humiliation and despair, I've learned my lessons.

And when I took a step back to work in the substance abuse clinic, that was kind of me trying to find anything other than working in the industry, anything other than cooking again.

I wanted to spend more time with my family.

My nieces and nephews were really young.

I mean, they still are, but at the time, they had just been born, and I wanted to be there for them.

I wanted to spend more time with my wife, who was my girlfriend at the time, and I wanted to play more sports and participate in activities that were healthy for me, and I just couldn't find the time to do that.

So most recently, I started my own company.

I've been working in the private sector as a private chef for a little while now, and I still get to do what I love to do.

But I've found a nice, healthy work life balance.

And that algorithm was kind of like an aha moment, because I feel like there are other chefs out there who are migrating out of restaurants and who are looking for something where they could still give their gift without burning out.

And, you know, one of the main tenets that I've learned through my experience is principles before personalities.

You know, principles first.

Having boundaries is very important.

Being able to communicate those boundaries and have people around you that you can communicate freely with without feeling neglected or belittled or, you know, I just.

I'd been around so much toxicity, and for me, I wanted to create a place where chefs and industry people could find a third door, an alternative method to be able to do what they love to do and at the same time, be able to have a work life balance.

So this is your staffing agency, basically, is what you're kind of referencing.

Tell us a little bit.

Get a little deeper into that.

Sure.

I've had a lot of fun over the last, I would say, nine months working for a specific family as a private chef.

I never saw myself really committing to that.

It just wasn't in the trajectory for Me and creating my own agency was formed because I felt like I could be a platform or a launching point for chefs to create their own brands, be able to work for private clients, be able to put on their own venues, dinners, parties, whatever they are inspired to do, and be able to create those connections for them.

So finding the right clients, the right people, and putting them in touch with them and being able to put on something special that allows them agency gives them back their autonomy and a little bit of ownership as well.

Tom, from your perspective, what are the biggest challenges, either cultural or otherwise, that face the industry today regarding mental health?

Well, it's interesting what Ben said.

It's really important to have boundaries.

And if you don't have boundaries, you'll get into trouble right away.

But what the DOT is showing us is that loneliness and substance abuse are the top issues.

Loneliness, it seems odd for that to be an issue intuitively.

Look at it this way.

People naturally need to feel they are part of something, a community that they have people who care about them and they can talk to.

Substance abuse can come from several areas.

Physical pain is the obvious one.

If you're in a 10 hour shift and your feet in the heat and you're running, you need to be physically fit to perform at peak levels.

Think of being a chef cook as a high level athlete.

Most people in the millennial and Z generations were given no physical IQ understanding in school.

Once the body starts to feel pain, the mind develops anxiety and fear.

Alcohol and drugs mask that for a while.

So that's two of the biggest things we're dealing with and that we're trying to provide resources for.

Yeah, Tom, to reiterate what you were saying about loneliness, because that resonated with me a lot.

I can be in a room full of people and still feel alone.

And I remember feeling like that for a long time.

And you're right, the alternative substances can feel like your best friend.

They take you outside of that loneliness, that feeling of despair, hopelessness is the keyword.

Then that bottle becomes your best friend and your ultimate destroyer in the long run.

You're absolutely correct.

And you know, I've been telling people for years, and this is not about religion necessarily, but if you don't have faith in yourself and the company you work for, in the people you're working with, you don't have hope.

And if you don't have hope, that's where drugs and alcohol has a place to live.

Yep.

Yeah, I totally agree.

The thing that comes to mind, there's that famous TED talk The opposite of addiction isn't sobriety.

It's connection.

Yeah, absolutely.

Absolutely.

You know, the funny thing is, Is we have 41ambassadors in North America now, and everybody talked to us immediately about, where's the big group I can talk to?

Where's the, you know, where's the audience?

Where's the difference I can make?

And I shocked them all by saying, the biggest difference you can make is get six people from the industry together for a coffee one day and just talk.

It's one of the most healing things you can do and absolutely the simplest thing you can do.

So, Ben, helping others for chefs and hospitality, people who feel burned out or stuck in your experiences.

Now, what's one practical thing that they can start doing to take back some balance?

Well, to bring Patrick up again, he's doing this thing where he's got a meeting he hosts in Miami, and it's called Ben's Friends.

They're popping up all over the place now.

And what Tom was saying, too, finding a place where you can meet and talk about your struggles, finding somebody who you share a common connection with or somebody who's just willing to listen and being able to confide in whatever it is that's going on, because you're only as sick as your secrets.

If you could find somebody to share your thoughts with.

And I have people in my life that I call on a daily basis that I share my thoughts with, my deepest, darkest thoughts.

I've got those.

What are they called?

Evasive.

Yeah, those two.

I've got those invasive thoughts that pop up when I'm driving on the freeway, and I've got a lot of free time on my hands.

Free time is the devil's playground for me.

I can't be idle.

I've got to be busy.

And busyness comes with discipline.

Well, you know, I'm going to say something about that, because here's the thing.

It is good to talk to people, but here's the tricky part.

You can't talk to people who are still living that life, because all that's going to happen is you talk yourself, yourselves.

You talk yourselves into a stupor, and before you know it, you're out drinking or getting high or whatever it is that.

The.

Whatever struggle it is that you have, it gets exacerbated.

So you need to talk to people who are a little bit further along in the process than you are.

You can't be the customer and the hustler.

You got to be.

You're one or the other.

Either.

You're the one that Like I can help you or they're the one that is going to anchor you down.

They're gonna, they're gonna pull you down because when you get two people together or a group of people together that have the same problems now it's a party.

And you got to be really, really careful with that.

And I know this from my own experiences.

I know this, I've experienced this myself.

To have the support system, Ben, that you're talking about and obviously to have the support system that's available through the Burchf project where you have people who, who, who experienced all of these struggles and, and they all have their stories, but they're also in a place that mentally where they can, they can actually add the, the assistance they can add value to, to your life.

Am I crazy?

No.

I mean, I'm not thinking the blind leading the blind.

You know, you find somebody to co sign your bs, right?

And that's, that's where the mind wants to go.

Especially when you're playing around.

It's very inconvenient for an alcoholic or an addict to get sober.

You know, that is take the drug or the substance out of the system and you've solved the symptom, but you haven't solved the problem.

I like to say the problem is between my two ears.

You know, I'm the problem.

The Burnt Chef project does have people who have done the work and who understand what it is that they're talking about when it comes to mental health and substance abuse.

And talking to people who work a program of some sort or who have recovery in their lives, who are living along spiritual principles is a better person to talk to obviously than somebody who's still out there ripping and running.

Yeah, Tom, what say you about that?

I agree.

It is such a challenge.

Like I watched it throughout my entire career where alcohol was the answer to everything and after work it was see how much alcohol you could consume.

And like I like to say to people who ask, I went all pro a few seasons, that's for sure.

And you know, what did, what did it get me?

Well, a divorce.

It got me a number of other things that were complex to my life and getting out of it, getting away from those people, finding new people.

I'm in a world of data right now and here's something to chew on.

It takes 10 hours to make an acquaintance.

It takes 50 hours to make a friend, and it takes 150 to 200 hours to make a close friend.

You don't have any time on your hands.

It's really hard to do that.

And you need a close friend.

Everybody needs a close friend.

So that's the absolute truth.

And if the common denominator are the drugs or the alcohol or whatever the.

Or whatever that reckless behavior is, then that's the.

That's the thread that ties you together.

And some of those people that we're around because we're enjoying those same things, well, they're not really your friends, and they're certainly not going to help you.

And they're the ones that are going to suffocate you or drown you, and you don't even realize it.

Yeah, I think something needs to be said for somebody who's still sick and suffering, listening to this podcast and feels like isolation is the only way.

Because when I'm in my.

When I'm in the throes of it, and even now when I'm emotionally unstable or there's something going on in my life, my first instinct is to isolate.

I don't want to talk to anybody.

I don't want you to tell me what to do.

I was talking with a very close friend the other day, and I had told her that I had went through, you know, some troubling times in the last couple of months.

And she said, why did you call me?

You know, and I said, well, I was up to something, and I didn't really want you to tell me to stop.

She's like, I never tell you to stop doing what you're doing.

But for you to just reach out and be like, listen, the devil's got a hold on me right now.

And for me to just know that where you're at is enough.

Never going to tell you to stop doing it or get in your way.

And I thought that was important, to just have the permission to be like, hey, listen, I don't want to talk about what's going on, but there's something going on.

And just to have a friend who gets that.

Well, nobody wants to get preached to in the best of times, right?

And forget it.

If you're.

If you're face down in the gutter, so to speak, that's the last thing you want to hear, is somebody getting preachy with you.

So I can appreciate that it's good to have a person that isn't judgmental in that capacity or can, you know, keep things under the lid a lot.

There's a lot of gossipy stuff that goes on there, a lot of tea drinking out there amongst that sort of crowd.

And if you have friends or family or somebody in Your life that isn't that.

You need to take advantage of it.

You know, normally I wait till the end of the program for this, but just for the.

Just for giggles, Tom, how does.

How if somebody's listening right now and they actually wanted to speak to somebody or find something immediately, how would they do that?

What I'd initially advise is go to our website, theburnshaftproject.com and start there, because there's individual help and there's commercial help.

And what you want to do is go into the individual help, go your area.

You'll find other organizations which we work with.

This is not a competition, it's a collaboration.

Okay?

So all of the groups that we know of that are going to help the industry are available through there.

On top of that, we offer an EA2, which means you call an 800 number, you get triage, and you can get up to six opportunities for therapy.

You know, just get the ball rolling.

To get you started on the right path, you may be directed to something like Ben's Friends.

You may be directed to chow.

You may be directed to any one of the organizations that are out there because it's important that we all work together and make this as beneficial as we can.

Thank you, Tom.

The other part to this is your lifestyle.

Obviously, if you're putting in mad hours, 15 hours, whatever a day, and you're living that sort of life, your health is clearly not priority.

But as it turns out, if you're active, that helps clean out your brain.

Chef, what are you doing?

Jiu jitsu.

You're in the gym.

You know, I think I kicked your ass.

But look, at the end of the day, I'm only kidding.

At the end of the day, how does that help you clear your mind?

How do you stay focused with just being active?

So this has always been a hobby of mine.

I. I'll tell you what.

I was 12 years old when my crush told me she thought I was fat.

And I was crushed.

I quickly developed an eating disorder and I was like, I am never going to be overweight again.

I started working out.

It became an addiction like anything else.

And I'd always been into sports.

I was into soccer, hockey.

I played a season of football.

I did a lot of action sports when I was younger.

But keeping myself in shape and feeling my best physically has always been a passion of mine.

I focus and I.

And I spend a lot of time on what Tom said earlier.

Me time, you know, self love, giving back to myself.

I really want to feel like my best, not just emotionally and mentally, but also physically.

So I, I actually exercise a lot.

I train, I like to cycle.

I'm big into jiu jitsu.

I had my first competition a couple years back.

It was a blast.

You know, checks all the boxes for me.

And, and you know, I, I mean besides all of that, I just enjoy being at my best.

I think that's the, the, you know, and, and, and where I come from, it's, it's not about promoting the stuff you got, you got to get up in the morning at 5:30 and be like David Goggins.

And you know, you, you gotta get to it or you're, you're, you're, you know, you're, you're going nowhere.

But it's about finding purpose.

Giving your body and your mind the opportunity to feel at its best.

It's one thing if you're isolating and you feel depressed and you're going through the throes of a dark night and you know you're not eating healthy and you know, you try these quick fix remedies, it's like lighting a match in a rainstorm.

But if you start going through like the things you can control, I can control my physical health.

I can just control who I surround myself with.

I can control what I'm putting in my body.

You're at least giving yourself a fighting chance to get to the plate and make a healthy start to changing the way that you feel.

Well, I think it does a little bit more than that too.

Like what you said is 100% accurate.

But when you're out there and you're physically active and you're getting your body's endorphins, it changes your perspective.

And perspective oftentimes is what leads you into the right direction.

Healthy choices and a healthy lifestyle equates to a healthy lifestyle.

Meaning maybe you're not going to be mentally in the position to make the wrong choice because you're treating yourself and your body properly.

So well said.

Listen, this is not for everybody.

When I get up in the morning, I remember for a long time I had just anxiety.

Just waking up in the morning and just facing the world, just going to work.

One thing that's really helped me, a faculty of mine that I could take anywhere I go, even when I'm stripped of everything, is breath work.

I'm a big advocate of breath work.

I found this guy in Miami.

At one point he taught me the WIM HOF method.

And from that point I did my own research and I learned how to do Sufi forms of breathing and I go on YouTube, I look at videos, and I've taught myself numerous amounts of breath.

I. I sit on my yoga mat in the morning.

I close my eyes across my legs.

I'm not the kind of guy who could sit still for very long.

It's very difficult for me to sit in meditation.

But if I start breathing, focusing on the breath and doing these fun, you know, exercises, it puts me in that place that you're talking about where I can start making healthy choices.

Just 20 minutes of that in the morning puts me in a completely different frame, or mind frame, mindset, where I can start my day and start making grounded, healthy choices, centered choices.

So, Wim hof, if you actually do that, the amount of oxygen that gets put into your body, it's amazing.

I've done that.

And the feeling, it's euphoric almost.

It's intense.

Super, super intense.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You're working with your central nervous system.

You're working with the sympathetic nervous system, which is the thing, the fight or flight thing that tells you to run, freeze, fight, if you can tap into that and you can really dial it down.

And even in the kitchen, like Tom was saying, feeling that adrenaline rush in the kitchen and being on edge all the time, you're playing with actual chemicals in your body.

You're playing with dopamine, you're playing with adrenaline cortisol.

Being able to get those chemicals under control, whether you're a pro athlete, whether you are in the army, whether you're working in a kitchen, that.

That thing will keep you alive a lot longer, and it'll keep you healthier alive a lot longer as well.

Tom, one of the other things you might want to consider is your gut, because the.

The what goes into your gut is directly related to what hormones you create in your body.

If you want endorphin, if you want oxytocin, if you want all a feel good, good hormones, your gut has to be healthy, and it has to be well fed.

And we all know that people that produce food most often eat very poorly, and that's a sad state of affairs.

Don't tell me not to eat pork belly.

Who are you?

No, no, you're.

You're.

You're all the pork belly you want, but throw a vegetable on it.

I know, I'm.

I'm zingchi, always kimchi, always give you nhr.

All right, so here's the thing, Tom.

Let's talk about the future vision for the Burn Chef project.

Five years from now, what do you think the industry looks like?

And do you think Burn Chef Project North America is going to have an impact on that outcome?

Great question.

So last week I was on a panel at the next food Expo and it was probably one of the best overall food shows I'd been in, I've been involved in for quite a while.

And our panel on the main stage attracted the largest audience out of all the panels that were there in the course of three days.

That's astonishing and it speaks hugely to what we're doing.

But what it comes down to is that my hope is that young people will be coming back to the industry, that people in the industry stay on, and that the hostility space becomes a healthy, fun and fulfilling career.

It won't be easy, and it's a long draw.

And it's not just the culture we need to change inside the kitchen or inside the bar or inside the front end staff.

It's the culture we have to change by the customer.

The number of restaurateurs I've talked to in the last little while who are actually firing customers now instead of staff is huge.

And this is important.

If you don't know how to comport yourself when you go out into a public space, you should not allow, be allowed to be there.

And it's just that simple.

Because one of the ugliest things that happens in our industry is the angry customer.

So five years from now, I'd like to see a society where we appreciate hospitality, where you appreciate the service industry and the people that are into it.

Ain't it appreciated as much?

Well said, Tom.

Ben, looking ahead, what's next for you personally and also with your role as an ambassador for the Burn Chef project?

I think the most important thing, and not just an ambassador for the Burnt Chef project, and I say this to everybody who's listening, is be your own best ambassador.

That's been a big theme of mine lately.

And learning how to represent myself and the people that I work for and work with.

Being a brand ambassador for my family, for my wife, I think that's what's next for me is self improvement.

I think the most honorable thing you can do is not change the world or change the people around you, but change yourself.

And part of, you know, my journey with the Goldman Agency, the things that I'm working on, is to make our industry, make the world, make myself a little bit better.

With the Burnt Chef project and with the industry, I, you know, also second what Tom was saying, it's difficult to change the, you know, the terrible customer that comes into your restaurant.

I've had my fair share of them.

But if we can change the way we treat our employees, I think in turn, it affects the way that we help the customers and in turn changes the ethos.

So I just would like to see things improving overall and happy to be with you guys today.

Excellent.

This was an amazing episode.

Tom, how do we find you over at Burnshelf?

Quick, you can find me at ambassadors Canada@theburnchefproject.com or you go to LinkedIn and just put in Tom Mitchell, Calgary, and you'll find me right away.

And you can find me at Chef Benjamin Goldman on Instagram.

I also have a business Instagram called the GoldmanAgency.

Or just look me up on LinkedIn.

I love it.

What a great day and great show.

Love you guys.

We are out, out.