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107. Sacred Sexuality: More Wholeness, Healing & Connection With Amanda Testa

Episode 107 • 14th November 2024 • The Art of We • Krista Van Derveer and Dr. Will Van Derveer

Amanda Testa 0:00

I feel like you cannot tread these waters safely without a really strong base of support and care and safety. And again, we can only have a safe, brave enough experience that we can create. But it's like, as you talk about a lot on this podcast, you know, we have to have that base of of emotional and physical safety to go deeper.

Krista Van Derveer 0:18

erved hundreds of clients and: 1000

Amanda Testa 1:50

It's such an honor to be here with the both of you. Thank you for having me.

Krista Van Derveer 1:53

I want to just quickly get into this conversation, because there's going to be a lot of questions I think that will and I have, and then also that we can kind of channel the people who listen to the art of we that they questions that they might have. But I would love to hear a little bit about you becoming a sex coach after being a southern debutante, which I don't know. This story, I'm excited to hear about this. Wondering if you would kick us off with that.

Amanda Testa 2:18

Yeah people always ask, What in the world led you to go down this path. I was raised in South Georgia in a pretty conservative environment, Southern Baptist upbringing, lots of religious conditioning, lots of good girl conditioning. You know, I was very much taught to be pretty and pleasing and quiet.

Krista Van Derveer 2:37

Oof, yes, I totally know.

Amanda Testa 2:39

And it was hard for me. It was very hard for me, and I know growing up, I didn't really have many good tools to process a lot of that, so a lot of it was internalized with unhealthy behaviors and coping mechanisms which were not supportive. And after I graduated from college, I went to the University of Georgia, and then I moved to Colorado, and one of the things that I realized is I have spent, I'm now 51 so since 30 years, kind of deprogramming myself from a lot of this. Because, you know, that turned out in my relationships, I felt a very big need to perform, to please. I wasn't able to speak my needs. And also, you know, I had some sexual trauma that I have been healing for years as well. And part of that was not being able to speak up, not being able to defend myself or speak my needs. And so that was a lot of what I kind of moved through my life, with a lot of that conditioning to keep myself kind of stuck. And my only release was unhealthy habits, you know, like binge eating or alcohol or all these unhealthy things. So as I, you know, grew in life and had a very successful corporate career in sales and marketing, and I met my amazing husband after a long battle walking my father through early onset Alzheimer's. And so through that, I think that was some of the awakenings to, you know, life is short. You can't live in this way and really not connecting to the truth of who you are. I think I had segmented a lot of different parts of myself. And when I started dating my husband, one of the things he told me was, I don't want you to be a Pollyanna, which that just blew my mind, because I thought, Wow, I've never heard that from anyone before.

Krista Van Derveer 4:26

What do you what did he mean by that? Exactly,

Amanda Testa 4:28

because I think he could see a lot of that pleasing behavior, right? Is like I wouldn't speak my mind fully, or I would hold back. And he had been married before. He didn't want that. He was, you know, very open to relating in new ways, which was a gift to me totally. And I remember being like, Ah, okay. Now he's probably like, oh, I should have been careful what I've said, but it's great because I think part of this process, too is just starting to unlearn some of that performance. So shortly after we got. Married, I got pregnant, and after my daughter was born, I found myself it was a huge initiation in a lot of ways, because I brought that type A personality and that wanting to do everything right to parenting, and I decided to stay home with her and really devote all of my being to this parenting role. And through that, I even more disconnected from myself. And I just remember one morning I was, I think she was around a year old, and I was like, tripping over toys going to the bathroom. And I was just like, Oh, no one ever does anything around here, just grouchy and miserable. And I remember looking at myself in the mirror and having zero recollection with the person looking back at me, and I just thought in that moment, this is not how I want to live. Like this cannot be my life. And I couldn't understand what I was doing wrong, because I was taking care of myself. I worked out. I you know, I'd followed one of my passions around health and wellness, and I was a personal trainer, and I was teaching stroller stride, which was a workout for moms. I was involved in my community. I thought I was taking care of myself, but I just deeply disconnected. So in that moment, I just made a commitment to following the bread crumbs. And one of those bread crumbs happened to lead to this course with one of my mentors. And I was thinking, all right, well, anyone with a you know, that's dealing with a lot can realize, like, often your sex life goes to the back burner. And so I thought, well, that surely couldn't. Could use some help. So let me just take this class and see what it's class and see what it's all about. And I think something in the advertising was around, you know, connecting to your sexuality. I was like, Well, sure, let's give that a go. I never really realized I was disconnected from it. But through this class, I found like, oh my gosh, this is like a whole world as a well educated woman. Here I am in my 30s, and I've never learned about my own anatomy in this way. I've never learned all these things. And I It really blew my mind afterwards, I just noticed such a change in my own body. And there was a lot of healing that went on because, you know, it was dealing with a lot of things somatically, like actually working with my body and my pelvis and all of these things to kind of release stuck stress cycles and stuck energy so that I could have more feeling, more pleasure, and just more energy flow. And so that just blew my mind. And I was like, why are we never taught these things? I want to teach everyone about this because it is so amazing and incredible. So that's kind of the start of it.

Krista Van Derveer 7:16

Let me ask you this too, was your husband involved with the class at the time, like, or were you doing this work on your own?

Amanda Testa 7:22

No, I was doing it all on my own, yeah, which I think was really important for me, because it was more about reconnecting to my own body in a new way. Because I think anytime we go through a life transition, even if it's just, you know, I feel like every five years, we go through another transition, and it's reconnecting to our body in new ways. And I had. So I didn't really have a lot of pain, but there was a lot of numbness and a lot of disconnection and a lot of disassociation happening that I wasn't even aware of. You know, in all our sexual experiences, I thought they were great, but looking back, so much of it was around performing or doing things that I wanted that would make my partner feel good. Yes, was all about doing it for them, which was some of that good conditioning I heard along the way too. Of like, always, please your husband never say no, or they will find someone else. You know, all this really unhealthy messaging is very southern. It is not about pleasure or your own joy in any stretch of the imagination.

Krista Van Derveer 8:14

Thank you so much for sharing all of that. I can relate to a lot of that messaging, even though I didn't grow up in the South, but will, did grow up in the South? And I'm curious, just at a high level, Will, were you given that messaging as a male, too around, not making sure that you don't upset your partner, or you have to perform, or that kind of thing, or were you not, did you not get that messaging specifically around, like sexual connection?

Dr. Will Van Derveer 8:39

Well the messaging was mostly from my friends and the culture at large. Like, I didn't actually get much direction or instruction from my parents, but there was definitely an ambient, performative messaging that was happening for me and my friends too. And some of it, you know, comes from movies and, you know, internet pornography and all the things that boys teenagers are exposed to. And, you know, nowadays it's much younger than teenagers. Unfortunately, kids or little boys are getting into porn. You know, I think I read somewhere 8 years old. It's really crazy.

Krista Van Derveer 9:17

What was the messaging?

Dr. Will Van Derveer 9:19

The whole message of like, you should always be really hard. You should be ready to go. Sex has a kind of very driving, kind of hard, kind of pounding, kind of masculine warrior kind of vibe, like there's no room in that messaging for relaxing and even really enjoying. It's more like conquering and winning and competing, you know, like in the fraternity I was in in college, it was all about that, you know, like, oh, did you get laid last night after the party, or whatever?

Krista Van Derveer 9:54

Or how many times?

Dr. Will Van Derveer 9:55

How many times? Yeah, exactly, so, for sure. And, you know, yeah, I. Only went to one debutante event in Nashville growing up. Bless her heart, my my date who was assigned to me, of course, because that's how it was done, at least in the in the setting I was in, had two or three drinks at the beginning of the event, which I'm kind of in retrospect. I'm wondering, like, how did that work? Because we were, you know, 15 or 16 years old, and I don't think she'd ever had a drink of alcohol before, and she got really drunk and ended up in the bathroom of the place for the whole night, throwing up. So it was, it was kind of a, I hope that she doesn't have PTSD from that. But in any case, it was just a really intense set of messaging for boys too, I would say. And you know, there's really not much room for, like, slowing down being present, experiencing any kind of creativity, or letting what's welling up inside of you, drive what's happening, as opposed to just like a mental exercise of this is what I'm supposed to be doing right now.

Krista Van Derveer: 10:55

Yeah, thanks for sharing that. And there's so many ways that I was culturally indoctrinated around different messaging as well. That is definitely not the conversation that we're having today. It's, you know, I think, I think, Amanda, you're gonna lead us into a different kind of conversation, yeah, and I would say will, and I have done a lot of work around our sexuality in different ways, which we're very grateful for, but just wanted to relate with the conditioning and the place that you were coming from. And yeah, Want to keep hearing the evolution of your story. A lot of layers. Yes, yeah, so many layers. So please, thank you for sharing, and please continue on your story of how you continued to work those messages.

Amanda Testa: 11:34

So you know through that, that's one of the things that really started my passion around learning more about sacred sexuality and sex, because it was always something I was always something I was interested in. And I, you know, I enjoyed it. I thought it was great, but I didn't realize how much more there was to it. And I think one of the things I really realized in my relationship was how much it opened my heart to my partner. Because I think there was a lot of layers of protection, a lot of layers of fear, a lot of layers of, you know, part of the thing too, I realized, is, even in my 20s and 30s, when I was, you know, dating and living my own life and really kind of stepping into my own independence, was kind of the other edge of the pendulum where I was like, I don't need anybody. I don't need a man. Why in the world would I want that? And so part of me was always protective of like, well, I need to have my own situation, just in case it doesn't work out right. I don't need to go I don't need to fully surrender into this, because that's not safe. And so there was that layer of protection and so, and I didn't realize, like, how much physically it was, like, in my chest and holding me back. So that was one thing. And I think the other thing between my husband and I really understanding the wholeness. I think that's one of the things I love about the sacred sexuality is around, you know, the wholeness. So often we have different aspects of ourselves, and we, you know, we segment these different parts of ourselves. And so maybe we have our desires feel like shadowy, dark things, or we don't allow them to see the light, or we don't share certain aspects of ourselves, and so those parts, you know, they they hold us back. And with this in, kind of in some of these teachings around tantric sexuality, which really is more about Neo Tantra, when we weave in the sex and into it, because a lot of the classical tantric text is not so much about sexuality. This is kind of more of a new way of viewing it, from a western point of view, that kind of happened in the 60s, but that we are, you know, we weave these different parts of ourselves together so that we can see the divinity in all of who we are. And when we can see that in ourselves, it makes it much easier to see that in our partners, so that we can kind of get into states where we can realize we don't look at the day to day humanness of this person that maybe left the toilet seat up right? We're like, this is like a divine being, and I want to, like, feel that connection to them in that way.

Krista Van Derveer: 13:46

Is this a little bit similar to parts work, like internal family systems at its core,

Amanda Testa: 13:51

it is in some ways, which is so interesting, because I think a lot of these traditions are becoming more and more backed by science today, which is amazing, but yes.

Krista Van Derveer: 14:00

It also reminds me of this seeing each other as a divine being and not the person who left their seat up, which, by the way, will does amazing job of not that I've ever asked you, but you I always walk into the bathroom they don't have the seat up. But there's other things that could get into my way of seeing you as a divine being, but one of our relationship agreements that is probably, I think, one of the hardest ones for us, one of the hardest ones, which is to see each other with fresh eyes every day, not as our filters of each other. And I really wonder how much that plays into this conversation of sacred sexuality, which we can get into that yes, but I really appreciate you talking about the background of tantric sex, and then maybe you're going towards the difference of that, between that and sacred sexuality. I'm wondering what the difference might be in terms of this conversation.

Amanda Testa: 14:50

I think this is a good question to note, because Tantra is often misunderstood in the West. Is purely about sexuality, but you know, it's actually a very profound and rich spiritual tradition. And philosophy that dates back 1000s of years, but at its core, it really values both the body and the spirit as sacred, seeing them not as separate, but as interconnected aspects of divine energy. And so, you know, and with classical Tantra, there's so many intricate rituals and teachings that require years of study and respect for lineage, because it's, you know, it's deeply rooted in Indian cultural, philosophical and spiritual frameworks. So, you know, specifically, when I'm teachers like Osho in the 60s that brought this tradition to the west kind of had a different way of bringing it that Western people could understand. And so I think a lot of these Neo tantric teachings that based are based there. Some of the beautiful things about it, though, are, you know, it's really teaching us that our bodies, in some ways, are holy maps of the universe, and through embodiment practices, we can reconnect with our most sacred selves, and again, with that, you know, when you're thinking in your relationship, it's that kind of concept of a sacred union where there's a really deep level and presence and connection that honors both partners as whole and Divine, so that, in turn, you know, opens up these really profound levels of intimacy, beautiful.

Krista Van Derveer: 16:05

Well, I have so many questions already. I'm wondering if the if you do want to say anything more about your story before we get into we can dive in. Yeah, okay, but eventually you came to the place of like this. This is where it's at. I want to bring more of this into the world. I want to be working with people. I want to be teaching, and you've been doing that for how many years now.

Amanda Testa: 16:26

So I started doing a lot more study in like the like, in around 2012 and then in 2014 is when I started deepening my journey. And then I started, you know, so with one of my teachers who I learned a lot of this from, was Layla Martin, and so I did her Vita coaching certification in 2016 and then through that work, I realized right away, working with sexuality, that there are many layers, and there's a lot of trauma and all the things woven in there. So I wanted to do more training specifically around trauma. So I have studied somatic experiencing and alchemical alignment and rebloom, which is another coaching certification. So I've done a lot in that realm too, because it's so connected. I feel like you cannot tread these waters safely without a really strong base of support and care and safety. And again, we can only have a safe, brave enough experience that we can create. But it's like, really, as you talk about a lot on this podcast, you know, we have to have that base of emotional and physical safety to go deeper.

Dr. Will Van Derveer: 17:24

Definitely,

Krista Van Derveer: 17:26

totally, yes, absolutely. Well, want to give you the opportunity to dive in here. If there's anything where you want to start us, kick us off.

Dr. Will Van Derveer: 17:33

I have a lot of questions, but I'm going to hold off for now, because I don't want to jump ahead and Okay,

Krista Van Derveer: 17:36

Why don't we just start with for the people who are listening, what are some misconceptions about? Let's call it sacred sexuality. And I'll kick off by saying that we're very excited to have you on this podcast. And when will and I were talking a little bit about the topic, I think both of us can relate around the perspective of there's so many different people out there who are teaching a lot of different things around, whether it's tantric sex or sacred sexuality. There's a lot of different ways to talk about it. I feel like I've had many different experiences. The hardest ones being around, feeling like what people are bringing in around the messaging feels very ungrounded. It feels very like super high energy versus embodiment, like what you're talking about, it feels like it's kind of this fantasy realm that you get into, and then also you're out of it and you're back into reality of this, this plane, at least. So I'm just wondering what you would have to say about all of that, and what some misconceptions from your standpoint is around even talking about what sacred sex sexuality is, and what the opportunity might be for for people who are listening, if they have the same kind of setup that Will and I have.

Amanda Testa: 18:51

It is true, because often when people hear Tantra, they think of like Sting having marathon sex. And some of the things about that are, yes, it can be ways to tap into these heightened states of energy where you are able to sustain longer connections and connection to pleasure. And what I think about we really are trying to bring a consciousness to sex. It's like bringing a more of a sacred experience to the everyday. And I think that's even a lot of mindfulness, right? It's a lot of weaving together, a lot of these things that a lot of people in conscious partnership already do. But we don't necessarily think of it as tantric or as sacred sexuality, right? Because I think when we are able to kind of drop into a deeper level of connection, and when we oftentimes, people come to this work because they're like, Oh, I really want to have, you know, full body orgasms, and I want to have so much more pleasure in my body, and part of that is you have to first the duty and not fun thing, which is unraveling all the pain and all of the the blockages that are in your body first, right? Because oftentimes, you know, if we're thinking about that map, if we're thinking about, you know, trying to take our connecting to our sexual energy, number one. What even is that it's really just our life force energy. It's like the aliveness within us, and allowing that to flow more freely up and through our body, as a very simple way to say it. And we can do this through practices. A lot of when I'm working with clients and they want to learn some of these practices, a lot of it is learned. But the thing is, you can't always just, you know, if it was all just learned, then you would have everything you need to know just off YouTube or listening to a podcast, right? But often, there's all the things that stand in the way, right when we go to unwind, the energy in our in our root, for example, that's where a lot of our sense of belonging is, where a lot of our, you know, in our navel and stuff with worthiness and belonging and receptivity and all of these things. So when we go to kind of open up these parts of our body, there can be physiological tension and blocks. And so some of the ways this shows up, which is also very connected with somatic experiencing, is, you know, when we have these like tensions, or we hear a message, you know, say, for example, you're a kid and you are maybe looking at some porn, and then your bomb comes in, and you're like, oh, and you like, shut it down. And there's a part of you that never fully got to let that go. And so maybe even in your body, there's like tightness in your pelvis, or there's like a shame around sex or pleasure, right? So it's like, when you start to open up to more energy and more sensation, then you realize, like, oh, first I got to feel all these uncomfortable things, and maybe I want to cry, or maybe I'm super enraged, and I feel like I need to kick someone, or whatever it is. And so when we are when we get to do this work, we can give ourselves a space in which to do that, right? So I think that is how we can take something that feels really esoteric, like, you want to get to these higher states of connection and ecstasy and pleasure, but we have to do the grounded work first of like, what does it feel like to actually be in my body and feel sensation? Does that make sense?

Dr. Will Van Derveer: 21:51

I think it makes a lot of sense. I feel like the sort of desire that I think is human nature, or maybe you could say, I like to say, maybe lower human nature, because there's also human nature that is more aligned with our inner divinity, right, our human potential, our capacities, but the lower, the lower human nature that wants to get more pleasure and get away from more pain is one that I just keep coming back to in our culture, not just American culture, which I think is probably the worst example, maybe, but global culture has been, you know, kind of infected, maybe, with this materialist desire to get more pleasure and get less pain and and so I think, in the interest of wholeness, I really appreciate what you're pointing toward is, is this kind of within sacred sexuality, Maybe a tendency to engage in, like spiritual bypassing, and not deal with the injuries that are blocks to opening up channels of pleasure. And you know, it's just sometimes it's very on the it can be very gross level, but then sometimes extremely subtle, like, and I feel like the more one develops along the spiritual path, the more subtle those tendencies, the harder they are to catch, you know. But they're still there, because we still have an ego, no matter how far we go, you know. So I'm appreciating you starting the conversation with that.

Amanda Testa: 23:13

It’s so true. And I mean, our bodies are wired to go towards pleasure and away from pain, right, right? That's how they're meant to be. So it makes sense, right? Yeah,

Krista Van Derveer: 23:23

I have a kind of a logistical question for you, Amanda, which is, when you're talking about moving the energy or being with the energy of these different contractions or pain in our body in different parts, and let's just say, I think you use the navel as an example if you're working with DID YOU SAY THAT was like self doubt and it's around worthiness, like receptivity and worthiness?

Amanda Testa: 23:42

Yes, worthiness.

Krista Van Derveer: 23:47

So in your experience, as you're working with those themes, do you actually feel in your body an opening? Do you feel a related, very direct noticing of I feel more free in my worthy and I feel actually more worthy, and I actually then feel more of an energetic freeness in my navel area. Is that how you experience it?

Amanda Testa: 24:10

I love that question, because I think you know a lot of what this is, sometimes you do have to practice. I feel like that's part of it is practicing, because we do have to kind of teach our bodies and beings new ways to to be with each other. And so that's why I often encourage people to have not only practices they do together, but a solo practice. So for example, if you are wanting to connect more to your navel or to your womb, for example, the energy of that space, even just spending time breathing into that space, spending time bringing your awareness and intention, and that can take time to learn, like, what are the sensations I'm feeling, and is it pain? And is it, you know, disconnection, or is it numbness, or whatever it is, and really kind of letting yourself be with what's there and over time, you know, I noticed in my own experience, there was not a lot of I could not connect to any sensation at first. I was like, This is dumb. This makes no sense. I'm such a breathe into my womb. That's the dumbest thing ever. But then after doing it for a while, I was like, Oh my gosh, all of a sudden, like, I was really listening, and I was tuning in, and there was like, messages that my body had for me. And I was like, this makes so much sense. Wow, is it any wonder that I have really bad cramps when I have all this interesting information that was coming out, you know, and it came through, you know, maybe feeling certain pains or tension, and then kind of just like breathing into that for a minute and noticing as as I give more time and attention with that place, maybe there was emotion that wanted to come out, like I had a lot of grief. A lot of grief, and I had a lot of like ache and, you know, and it doesn't always happen overnight, right? I think I did, you know, a lot of practice around this, but over time, I became able to really feel more, and then it would feel like warm. And now, when I tune into it, I can really feel like tingles of pleasure and openness, and when I feel disconnected, or if I feel like it feels like a place I can go, I can connect and find some good sensations. And if I spend enough time, usually there's some good insights that come too, because it is like a seat of creative, creativity and power. So it is something you can connect to. And for me, it is a pleasant sensation.

Krista Van Derveer: 26:24

I love this conversation, and it sounds like there's a lot of the somatic experiencing that you're talking about inside of this conversation, which is also what I'm hearing is an aspect of your definition of sacred sexuality.

Amanda Testa: 26:36

It's really about liberating energy, yeah, and liberating that ability to take the energy and instead of, like, it going down and out. Like, if you think about a lot of times, if people just want a really quick orgasm, there's nothing wrong with that, right? I'm not judging any kind of pleasure anyone gets, but sometimes we're just, like, in a really fast paced environment, and you know, with the lives that we live, that we're just like, Okay, I just have five minutes. I'm just gonna get the or you're gonna get the vibrate and have the orgasm, or whatever. Or, like, we're gonna have a really quick connection, and that'll be fine. And sometimes that's fine. But if that's like, the way it is, every single time, there's probably not a lot of presence and connectivity and sensation and pleasure happening, but so and often that kind of is, like the energy, you feel it and just like, and then it goes down and up. And really, when we are learning to build the energy, we take it and we really let it build, and pay attention to the sensation, and use a lot of holistic sex tools like breath and intention and movement and sound and all these things to kind of let that energy grow and build, and then it starts to come up through your body. So you can take that pleasure. That's when people are talking about full body orgasm. That's it. You feel the sensations, but they're not just localized in one area. You can take them and you can kind of spread them through your body, and that energy moves. And you know, you can get to these altered states, which, again, like you know a lot about, when we are in these altered states, our brains can make new connections. And I think that's some of the you know, if you do deep enough meditation or breath work, or whatever it is, you can get to those different states that often people enjoy totally.

Krista Van Derveer: 28:05

I love this conversation for many different reasons.

Dr. Will Van Derveer: 28:08

I guess at the risk of maybe going a little too meta. It keeps coming up the question about our relationship with pleasure, just in general. And I would say sexual pleasure has its own very specific kind of cultural layering that's super intense in our culture. But just pleasure in general, I think, is really I'm just reflecting on, like, the way I talk about pleasure in my life, and like, with my inner circle of dudes, like, we talk about chasing dopamine, we talk about going for the shiny object. And, you know, these are things that we call each other out about and we try not to kind of get derailed in our lives in that way. But there's a negative kind of association that I'm just kind of realizing in this moment of the way I talk about pleasure in general is like, oh, it's off course from mission and purpose and achievement and whatever things. So it's just, it's interesting that I'm not allowing myself permission to have more pleasure in my life, you know, to have a different, maybe more nuanced and neutral, maybe attitude about it. I'm curious what you have to say about our cultural experiences of pleasure.

Amanda Testa: 29:17

That is so true. That is one of the reasons why it can feel so hard because our culture really doesn't celebrate pleasure. It doesn't drive us towards pleasure. You know, it's more about productivity and getting things done. And specifically, a lot of the messaging that men receive is all around. You know, you gotta provide. You gotta, you know, step up. You can't mess around. You've gotta, you know, there's no time for that, no time for emotions, all of that. And so, you know, and often these patterns, we can become very successful because of them, right? Typically, those, those goal oriented behaviors serve us well in life, and often these success patterns that serve us well in business, they then sometimes limit that intimate connection, because we sometimes come to it with a goal, right? My goal is to have an orgasm, or my goal is to like. Get this done, or I want to feel connected, so I'm going to do this, and then I'll feel more connected. So it's like, really, there's like, this achievement based relating, happening.

Dr. Will Van Derveer: 30:07

Guilty as charged.

Krista Van Derveer: 30:10

I would say you are guilty as charged, but I want to stand for how we've been doing, what the perspective is from The Art of we and how we've actually been really working that inside of our relationship, right? And a good idea like, we really stand for intentionality. We're really standing for regulation, prioritizing regulation, which we have noticed. We've talked a lot about this recently, how much more we do have access to pleasure because of the work that we've done. And so I find that there's this beautiful way that we've been working in this we also have been a lot of conversations historically with female leaders about how, from my perspective, if we're doing the aligned, the soul aligned, work in the world, will actually we are actually feeling turned on in our bodies. So I think that there's a really beautiful coming together between you and me will about how we do relationship. So I don't want people who are listening just to put you in the chat. In the category that you just put yourself into, because I don't think it's totally accurate.

Dr. Will Van Derveer: 31:07

Well I mean, it is. It is an achievement based mentality a lot of the time. I love what Amanda said about practices. You know that you need to practice, and I think that we do do a really good job in our partnership of practicing down regulation connection, really attending to the animal nervous system. Of you know, when we leave each other's presence, when we come back into each other's presence, we have specific things we do to really support those sometimes tenuous, you know, moments in a connection. And I would love to hear you maybe, if you're open to it, Krista, share your journey with your sexuality and your experiences that you brought into our relationship that helped you feel more connected to your body and your pleasure. Because when I met you, I felt kind of daunted, because you had done work with your sexuality that I hadn't done with mine, and that was really good for me, actually, to, here comes the achievement again. To need to, you know, sort of step up my game.

Krista Van Derveer: 32:07

And maybe, you know, maybe there's some coaching Amanda can give us here about where we are now, because not that there's anything wrong, but I am curious what Amanda you would say to our journey. So I, I did a lot of work early on. And Mom and Daddy might want to turn off the episode. I won't say anything too explicit, but I did do some work early on. And this is this was like these workshops that some of us doing more of this authentic relating here in town would do, and we would go to those with these workshops which did have the flavor of tantra and sacred sexuality, but what it really felt like it was was a demonstration about how to get each other off. And while I walked away being like, wow, I learned a lot of stuff, I also walked away feeling pretty gross, like, I don't know how I really feel about this, and if I'll come back and do this again. But then I did do a deep dive of about nine months in person, immersion with a bunch of women who were teaching other women how to really be with our bodies. I would consider the sacred sexuality. It was wiping away all the indoctrinated cultural messaging and actually getting in these deeper touch with our bodies, like you were saying the emotions what's coming up, and that was a really big game changer for me. And I would imagine that's a lot of the work that you're doing, Amanda, with clients. So shortly after being in that immersion, my then partner passed away, and then I was in I was single, and there was actually this really beautiful period of being single where I brought a lot of that work into my grief, my healing, my own relationship with myself and my soul, my spirit, and all the things that sexually that was actually really, really, really potent. And I think that's what you're speaking to will is when we met, I was really in that practice, and I think that we have taken some of these practices into our our life, but I also feel like we've gotten a little bit away from the deeper intentionality at times of that, like we have this practice that we call skin time, where it's basically like, put our skin on each other's skin and feel what's there. And skin time has kind of devolved into not really skin time, but just intimacy, which I wouldn't say it's devolved, but the intention of it has kind of fallen away. So maybe there's something there that you can share with us about what you would suggest that we might want to start practicing from your experience, to bring more of this intentional, sacred sexuality back into our everyday or every week time together.

Amanda Testa: 34:39

First of all, thank you for sharing all that. And I think that it's when we're looking at inviting our wholeness to sex that's one of the things that you know Tantra will say in this Neo tantric teachings, where we are able to instead of judging parts of ourselves, maybe it's the achiever part, maybe it's whatever the emotional part that we can bring all that in to. Our sexual experience, and that's not what we've ever seen or been taught, right? So if we're fully letting go during sex, that could be you could have emotions, you could get angry, you could get really primal, and we're often scared of that, so we don't allow ourselves to surrender to those levels. And I think too, like learning to hold space for each other, to be that full and to be able to have all the aspects, because, you know, whether it's fully allowing your emotionality or even if there is, that's fine if there's sometimes a goal, because we can have that too. But really, you're, you know, it sounds like that skin to skin time is that beautiful presence and that just being together and just being feeling the skin, feeling the sensation, with no goal. And oftentimes that can be such a beautiful place to be, because we can notice all the things that come up with that. Or maybe it's like, oh, now are we gonna what are we gonna do? Am I gonna feel pressure? Do I want it? What am I scolds? Is going on? Like, we can just be present with all the thoughts and all the things that our bodies do in that experience, and just kind of notice it and hold it and like, be really kind to ourselves. Like, wow, I really noticed. There's a part of me that's like, wants to have sex right now, and I'm really mad. I just have to sit here and touch sit here in touch. Or there's a part of me that's like, oh, I needed to really fold those clothes. But then we can, like, change. We start working with our mind to, like, be present and that let that be a meditation of just like, feeling the skin. What does it feel like to notice to be together? Like, where is it warm? What else do I notice? I think that's a beautiful practice. And I think that's a really when we're talking about somatic sex and things of that nature, that's one of the really basic practices, is like being able to just be together and connect to the sensations without any kind of goal, but just being present. I love that you do that, and it's normal that we like life. We're always busy, things change, so it's good to just always know. And we can be like, Oh, I acknowledge where we are. Maybe I'm noticing that we have kind of shifted what we do during this time, and maybe Let's reconnect to our intention. Or what do we want this to look like? Or how could we both enjoy it more? Like, is there anything else you need to receive here? Or what else you know? Just have the conversation that you so eloquently teach people how to do here. Like, about that, right?

Krista Van Derveer: 36:54

Yeah, thanks for sharing that. We actually did something really beautiful the other day. Which will you you were really leading this, which was, it was after the election happened, and we were having skin time, and you helped kick us off around a deeper connection, around just being, what does your body have to say about the election results? And I tuned into my body and came up with a bunch of really deep insights about what my body was actually feeling about it, not my head, but my body. And really got some big, valuable nuggets for not just my life, but also from being together in those moments. I feel like naming our states about what's what we're thinking about, whether it's the laundry, like you said, or like a part of me doesn't want to be here right now, or a part of me wants this, or part of me, whatever. I think naming it really helps move the energy. And if we can be in the agreement with our partner that if I say a part of me doesn't want to have sex with you right now, or doesn't want to be intimate with you right now, can we hold that as okay versus a that's the way it is, or you don't want me, or there's something wrong.

Dr. Will Van Derveer: 38:02

Yeah, it's really powerful. What, what you're talking about? Amanda of bringing the wholeness to the bedroom, right? That this kind of quality of its performance really ultimately, right? It's like, I want to put a certain thing forward, and I want to keep a certain thing in the shadow or behind the performance, and it's kind of like stingy, is what I'm feeling right now, is like it's not generous to all of us, to the wholeness of all the parts of us, to refuse to even log to see if there are other parts that have things that they need to be known about.

Amanda Testa: 38:35

So true. And I think even just being aware of that, even in a sexual experience, if you're noticing that sometimes it can be okay to just pause, right and just say this part is really wanting to do something else. And you can be like, that's okay, you know, what is that? What might that part need to be a little more present? Or can we just give that part a minute? We can always just pause and come back. And I think that's the other thing, that sometimes it can kind of feel like it will derail things. But if you kind of have that commitment that we'll come back to it, like, let's just have a pause, and then we can get back to what we're doing. And if it derail things, we'll deal with that. But most of the time when you can kind of teach yourself to have those pauses, then you can pick back up. I think that's one of the things, too, about when we can start to work with our sexual energy and letting it be a container to heal, that we can use our sexual encounters as, not only it's not always going to be some ritual, but when we have those deeper opportunities to connect and really process and be together and hold each other in that and you can take turns, you know, surrendering and receiving and giving and conquering, it's like you get to embody all these different aspects of yourself and play in that realm. And it can be such a healing experience, I think, through creating those types of containers to play like that, that then you can you feel so much better afterwards, you feel so much more creative, and then you want to do it more. And so it's not just about the pleasure that's part of it, but it's also like, God, so much more has come from this. And I realize it can be. Be more than I felt possible for sure.

Krista Van Derveer: 40:02

Amanda, I would love for you to talk a little bit more. And you were kind of pointing to it, and you mentioned it earlier on the podcast about trauma, sexual trauma, and the possibility for healing inside of intimacy with your partner. I'm curious what you would say to the person who's listening, who gets pretty stuck or contracted or limited in their capacity, because they do have some deep trauma.

Amanda Testa: 40:27

I always encourage to get support, because oftentimes there's some things we could just can't work through on our own, but the more we can kind of learn how to hold ourselves and when we work with the practitioner, we can get better skills of like, Oh, and this comes up, I realize what my body needs and what I can do, or how I can tell my partner to help me. If this happens, say, for example, if you are someone who maybe goes into like, freeze or disconnection, sometimes, not always, but the more you kind of pay attention, you can get more clear of like I am, like so if you think of a scale of, like, red, yellow, green, there's also blue. And blue can be like, I can feel like I might be moving into a place where I'm going to go away. Can we pause and like, just look in my eyes, or, like, touch my let me feel you things like that, that you can bring your awareness back to something that is connecting. Then that's sometimes a way to like, okay, come back. Versus just let you going through the motions. You can't always you can always catch it, but the more you practice, you can get more discerning of noticing, like, right before I go into a pattern that I don't want to do anymore. And I would say too, what we can do is develop our own practice. I think that's some of the most healing that I had was around my own personal I call it a sacred self pleasure practice, because it really is tuning into my body, being in consent with myself, learning what my body likes and doesn't like, and where are the points where I need to work through some things right? Maybe there's places on my body where, if that gets touched, it's like an immediate trigger. And so I can be with that and be like, what else needs to happen here? How can I be more loving and bringing some compassion here, and also going very, very slow. One of the things that one of my teachers told me, which is so true, especially around sexuality, is that we can only go as fast as the slowest part of us is ready to go. We cannot push it and we want like, we're achieving people, most of us being like, I want this to be solved yesterday. Why do I still have this after all these years? Yeah, but it's like, just being patient and, like, really trusting that slow part.

Krista Van Derveer: 42:23

Yeah, thank you that I love, I love hearing you speak to that. And we speak a lot about trauma in different ways. We don't really directly talk about sexual trauma on this podcast so far. So it's good to be bringing that element in, because I think it's such an important part of our healing, our wholeness, like you're saying. And I know there's a lot of people who need a lot of support with that kind of a linear conversation that I want to touch on before close, because just like I could be talking to you for a couple hours here, but I want to ask you about a typical male perspective that I think it's confused with Tantra, or sacred sacred sexuality, which is this concept that the man should be lasting as long as possible, and if he's evolved and developed and doing the quote, unquote right thing, then he should be able to last for a very long time inside of a sexual encounter. Well, I don't know if you would, if you want to add anything to that perception as a cultural, you know, American male perception, but I would be curious, Amanda, how you respond to that, unless there's something you want to add to that.

Dr. Will Van Derveer: 43:31

Well, I mean, there's a billion dollar pharmaceutical industry behind that, you know, so totally. It's a whole nother story, but, yeah, but I think it's also connected in with for men, and as I think I can speak for myself and men that I've talked to about this that there's this shame around not delivering the pleasure to the woman, but it's not the kind of pleasure that we're talking about here with Amanda. It's the kind of pleasure of the orgasm, right? And, okay, you know, I checked that box. I satisfied my woman, I gave her, quote, unquote, gave her an orgasm. And therefore I'm not at risk of being abandoned or thrown out with the garbage or so that's that's a heavy, heavy message for guys. And so I think when men are accused, you know, in you know, fairly accused of being goal oriented and going after the orgasm. I think that is a part of what we're working with over here as guys, is that many of us have a terrible concern, fear that if our woman doesn't have pleasure or an orgasm, it's bad news for our relationship, because some guy out there is going to be able to do that for you. That's sort of like the achiever mentality, I guess.

Amanda Testa: 44:44

Yeah well, I appreciate you sharing that tender truth well, because it is a big thing like that, wanting to please and feeling, you know, if I don't do a good job, then I'm going to be out, and there's someone else that can do it. I think from both sides, we can hear those messages. And, you know, I think to. When it comes to performing. And I know Krista, your question was more around like lasting and I think when you're talking about sacred sexuality, it's not know so much about the erection or the that it's more about the energy and the connection. And so I think too, when you can focus more on that, there's a lot of stress that you can take off of that pressure to perform, because sometimes that can even show up in the way of performing, right? Because we there's a lot of stress, and then that can inhibit erections, too. And like, when it comes to erectile dysfunction, dysfunction, there's a lot of things to make sure, like, number one, yeah, I just want to always have people check their health and make sure that there's no other health issues going on. But also just realizing, like, this is something too when we're talking about having our own pleasure practices, that even with penis owners, men can do this too, right, like and one of the things that I often say is that it's also bringing acceptance to whatever is when we're talking about wholeness, is like there can be such beauty and Power in a soft penis. So thinking about that, you know, we really have to change our mindset around what sex looks like, and also realizing there can be a time for softness and surrender, and still there can be pleasure and connection, and maybe it just looks a little different, because there's millions of ways to still be intimate and bring connection and pleasure to each other without an erection. So I think that is kind of a you like you say that is one of the misconceptions. But I think that's often what's sold, because that's what the messaging is out there, right? That men want this. So let's sell this like amazing outcome, which is true, right? That can happen. You can last longer and have better connection, less pressure on yourself. And when we're talking about two men earlier, when I was talking about those things that can be wrapped up, there could be other things that are wrapped up in there that you can always work through with men that, you know, some of my clients, we we work through these things, and then they realize, like, oh, I realize, like the stress level is part of what it is. So of course, I'm not going to be able to, you know, get into a place where I can even have pleasure. So there's layers. Like you said, there's layers

Krista Van Derveer: 47:02

Beautiful. Well, Amanda, again, there's so much rich conversation content in this conversation. I feel so grateful for you taking the time to come on with us. We might have to have a part two,

Dr. Will Van Derveer: 47:15

I think so

Krista Van Derveer: 47:16

definitely in the future, so we can get into some other layers here, because it's such a rich conversation and valuable conversation. But before we head out today, I'm wondering if how people can find you and and if they want to find out more about you, what's the best place to go, and if there's anything else you want to add before we we wrap up for today,

Amanda Testa: 47:35

I just thank you both so much again for sharing these vulnerable conversations, and I think it's that's how we learn. And I really appreciate you having me here. And for those who are listening, you can find me at my website. It's Amanda testa.com I also have a podcast called Find your feminine fire, and I speak a lot about these kind of topics there. So you can find me at those places. And I do have some some free gifts for you, if you want to go to Amanda testa.com/the goods. Like, get the goods. Amanda testa.com/the goods and you can go there as well.

Krista Van Derveer: 48:07

Great. And we'll put all those links in the show notes. And thank you again, Amanda. We're so grateful. And yeah, if you're open to it, we'll do a part two sometime. Thanks, Amanda. I would love it. Okay, great. Thank you. And thank you for listeners for joining in. We are so grateful to have you in our community. And if you want to reach out to Amanda, please do so. And if you are enjoying the content on this podcast, we would so appreciate you leaving a rating and review, because it helps us understand what we're doing great how we can improve, and also helps people find us. So thank you again, and have a wonderful weekend. Bye.

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