Ready to rethink compliance in communication?

In our first episode of Land and Deliver, we dive into one of the biggest challenges for communicators today: balancing creativity with compliance. Too often, compliance feels like a roadblock—but what if we told you it could actually be your ally?

Join Darren and Louise, as they unpack why compliance matters and how you can weave it into your creative process without losing the spark that makes your message compelling.

Takeaways:

1. Recognising the significance of compliance while crafting messages for audiences.
2. Using early involvement of compliance teams in the creative process to mitigate potential misunderstandings and legal complications.
3. Clarity in messaging is essential; utilizing straightforward language ensures that audiences comprehend intended communications effectively.
4. Simplifying messages and focusing on essential information enhances clarity, preventing audience confusion and promoting effective communication.

We’ll share real-world examples—like the BBC’s controversial edit of a Donald Trump speech—that highlight the risks of getting it wrong and the ethical responsibilities communicators face.

You’ll also discover our Eco Model: three simple principles to help you stay compliant while crafting messages that resonate. Think of it as your roadmap for avoiding last-minute headaches and delivering content that’s both authentic and impactful.

Whether you work in a highly regulated industry or just want to sharpen your communication strategy, this episode is packed with insights to help you turn compliance from a “frenemy” into a trusted partner.

1. 🎧 Tune in now and learn how to land your message and deliver it with confidence!

That when it comes to working on a message, we really want to make sure that people understand the importance of compliance is there.

But don't let it get in the way.

Don't let it impact on the wonderful stories that you want to share.

Yeah.

They've got to be your frenemy.

Frenemy.

We'll get that.

Maybe we should get T shirts or coasters with that on your frenemy.

Hello and welcome to Land and Deliver.

Our first episode.

Luis, Exciting it is where Louise here helps you land your message with clarity.

And Darren helps you to deliver it so people will listen, care and act.

It's lovely to have your company and we're excited to have a little chat, aren't we, about this topic.

I'm really looking forward to it.

Indeed.

Yeah.

And we've known each other for a long time, Darren, in terms of our media industry expertise, where we've crossed paths in many different ways with video, audio presenting behind the scenes.

Yeah.

So it's love to be here and we're really keen to make sure that we can help share with you the benefit of our experience and knowledge.

So, Lou, PTSD time.

Oh, go on.

Now, I want to kind of just recap on something that happened last year that I think is really, really unresolved for a lot of us.

Not in the political sense, but especially for compliance based industries.

And I'm talking about the Donald Trump edit from Panorama.

Yes.

Okay.

Because.

Because you know, politically it was, was a, a massive headache for the BBC.

But I think something that we can talk about is, yes, it is a massive headache and you know, it is what it is.

But I don't know about you are you've worked in compliance based comms.

I've worked in compliance, indeed, yes.

Yes.

And it's that absolute nightmare scenario they always envisage happening and it just makes an absolute nightmare for creatives.

So let's just kind of quickly go through the, the incident again.

If we can't remember what happens, we've blocked it out of our memory.

Indeed.

Yes.

This is the thing and I think you're right.

It's also, it's certainly had some wider.

Raised some wider questions and question marks around how we communicate the messages and stories that we share and also when it's not okay to bend the rules.

So, yes, basically, as you may recall with the BBC Panorama documentary, There's a Speech Earth, Mr. Donald Trump, leader of the United States of America, giving his speech and the BBC took said speech and basically molded and edited it to sound and inflame the situation more.

Now it's a really historical speech because I believe it's the Capitol Hill one.

So when he was there actually speaking about power and, and being in and out of power, and what he basically, what they basically did is took it and edited it in a way that made him look more aggressive or maybe in his words, look more confrontational in terms of what he wanted to do for politics.

What's really annoying for me as someone who's edited video for a long time, A long time, A long time, is that it kind of violates that first rule of editing in that you don't change the meaning of what's being said.

You know, there are instances where, you know, you and I may interview people on camera and they've trying to get the message out over a couple of takes because they're not very professional.

And so, you know, you make that up, you make that together, but essentially it's what they want to say.

Yeah, but with Donald Trump, it was, you know, two phrases really said something like 40 minutes apart and changed.

Although, you know, in that moment it changed the meaning of what he was saying and making it an implicit call to arms rather than just adding five or six seconds to kind of place it in different parts of the story speech.

And I think at the time that this blew up in the media and in the news, it's fair to say.

And you'll know this, Darren has song, it edits videos.

There's certain style devices you can use to show that time has lapsed between comments, be it a flash or.

Well, I say flash, there's probably a better word for it, let's be honest.

But, you know, there's certain device style devices you can use to show that time has lapsed between two.

And they didn't do that.

They made it seem like one seamless piece of content.

And I think the other thing where compliance comes in is, is they made it seem this was something that was picked up a while ago, but it was kind of hushed where they didn't want it to get out as a story and a message.

So when we heard this as the public, at first I thought, oh, this has just been picked up.

They've just heard that this was wrong.

No, no, no.

The BBC knew it had been wrong for a long time and actually kept that away from the public to try and work it out.

And, and it didn't.

A memo got leaked and then we all heard what, what happened.

But that's really interesting.

Because what happened was because they lost control of the message because, because of essentially someone edited it wrong and no one picked it up.

And you know, when we, when we think about, when we're making messaging for compliance based industries now, you know, as someone who worked at the BBC, you know, it's compliance hell.

It's a real, real nightmare to get that done.

And so, you know, and he got these narratives about BBC bias and all the rest of it, but those of us who are in the industry and making messaging understand that it's, you know, someone made a stupid mistake and it wasn't picked up.

But, you know, they had compliance for it, didn't they?

Yeah, this is the thing.

When I worked at the BBC in radio and a bit in tv, definitely there are certain, I mean, lots of paperwork, lots of forms that when you're pre recording and making a program just like Panorama would have you fill out this form that basically says, are there any issues in there that are contentious?

So for example, political views or something that may be perceived as derogatory by some of the audience.

And as soon as there is something like that, you work with your editor to work out, okay, what is it?

Do we have to put a disclaimer up?

Do we have to warn people it's flashing images and photography, for example, or that, you know, the certain words used that may cause offense.

So you're already starting to build, as you're starting to work on a program, you've got your storyboard of what you filmed, you've got your script, you know what you filmed, you're then sat in the edit with your editing person and you're working through that form as you go through your feet.

Hang on a minute.

According to our editorial policy, we have to make sure that we flag that, you know, we might need subtitles for this or that you have to warn people, people flash photography is being used and, or some wording here is, may cause offense.

So already in that early stage of the edit, you're already starting to fill out that form.

Then your editor who's with you editing it, but then your editing director is also spending time with you as well.

And so this isn't something that comes about overnight.

Editing takes so long as you know and there's lots of paperwork and opportunities for you to flag.

Hang on a minute, something's right here.

Or we may want to include something in the edit, but does it fit?

And you start to build up that paperwork and that form and it is long winded for compliance, but it's there for good reason.

And then once you've made the program, it does go through various layers of who watches it and who signs it off.

So this isn't just, oh, we've edited it, let's broadcast it out and it's done.

There are parameters and procedures in place for a reason.

And I know when I worked at the BBC, I was.

Yeah, that certainly I went through that procedure.

And I think if I look through my garage, I've probably got some old forms somewhere that he shows it.

That's really funny, isn't it?

Because, I mean, you know, companies that have heavily complianced.

It's a nightmare.

Compliance has gone wrong.

And so they want to.

If you're trying to make, you know, a really interesting story for, like, pharmaceutical or.

Or finance, you know, there's that struggle that goes on where compliance goes wrong.

You.

And I remember a story, a BBC story.

I don't think I've shared this with you, actually.

A very famous BBC radio dj, all right, was once working for a very big BBC radio station.

I notice you're choosing your words carefully here.

Well, at the time.

At the time, I was working for a company you might have heard of, especially in London, called Capital Radio.

But what was really interesting is that that particular famous radio DJ was having a public spat with another famous personality who was around at the time.

And so Capital Radio owned a couple of radio stations over the country.

And what would happen is that.

That you'd be amazed at the number of people that send in demos to.

To.

To work for them.

Loads and loads of demos.

And even when I was there in the.

And one tape was sent in by this personality who wanted to work for the company on a certain one of their radio stations.

So I happened to mention to this DJ that I had a tape of this person.

He said, oh, I can give you X amount of money.

I'll have that tape and I can take the mickey out of it on my radio show, Rivals.

Yeah.

So I'm going, hang on a minute.

Haven't you got to go through, like, compliance or some sort of legal thing?

He says, yes, I do.

If I have to go through.

Followed by a paperclip, it's 15 formers.

But for your tape as an envelope of cash.

Yeah.

And obviously, just to be really reset, I didn't give him the tape, by.

The way, because you're moraled and you have.

And you have.

You have morals.

Yes.

It wasn't enough money.

No.

I Didn't give it to him.

But even in the BBC, where it's really heavily complianced, there are little loopholes and compliance.

People can really freak out about that because let's just.

I did give him the tape and he just went ahead and did it.

There's all that legal compliance that he's just by sidesteps completely.

And.

And it could have been a libel issue, for example.

And I think the reason why we're talking about this as well is because we know as people who work in the creative media industries, how important it is to get a message across well and to make it really be delivered with clarity and with impact for people to act.

But sometimes there's so much caution and fear because whether you're in the legal industry, housing, whether you're in local government that I've worked in as well, you're in the healthcare industry, you know full well that there's lots of great things you want to promote and advertise and talk about, but with that comes the caution of, oh, we got to say this, got to include that.

And next thing you know, I just think of those adverts, like when you're driving and you hear the kind of disclaimer of depending on this order, do this, do that, a disclaimer, go to the website, don't do this or don't do that.

And they say it really quickly to include it.

Yeah.

But, you know, so, so we're saying as comms professionals and experts, that when it comes to working on a message, we really want to make sure that people understand the importance of compliance is there, but don't let it get in the way, don't let it impact on the wonderful stories that you want to share.

I remember when I worked writing adverts for pharmacy and we had this request from them to say, the adverts you're writing are very, very nice.

Thank you very much.

They're a little bit dull and bland.

Yeah.

So can you write us more exciting?

And, you know, you, when you wrote a script, you had to go through their, their compliance process and what would happen was that you write the excited scripts and it would go to the people that had, you know, commissioned the script from you and they go, that's fine.

And then it would go to their head of department.

That's fine.

And then it would come through legal and like all the life had been drained out of it.

You know, active ingredients can help to do.

Yeah.

Which, you know, is, is perfectly fine.

Yeah.

But you then, you know, I just remember sitting with My, with my team and, and a month later thinking, you know, you've got all this wonderful creative that we'd sat down doing and then by the time it's come through compliance and 15 tracked changes.

Yeah, it's true.

I worked with a high street beauty brand for six and a half, seven years.

It was the same.

And because a lot of the time you're talking about healthcare beauty products that have, you know, you want to say it's going to make you look younger.

You can't say that.

It's going to make, you know, it's going to help you lose weight.

You can't say that.

And you're like, okay, so what can we say?

And yeah, you're right.

And here you have kind of two extreme kind of sides of it.

You have the element of actually want to be creative.

Oh no, we have to be careful.

So what can we do about it?

What can we do to solve this situation and make lives easier based on what we know and how we can work with people and help them?

So basically you end up with messages that are technically perfect but emotionally invisible and also not that creative.

We can do better, right?

We can, we can.

We kind of come up with this idea for you to, to help just understand the, the environment you're in.

You know, you need to have compliance in there.

You know, they've got to be your.

Your frenemy.

We'll get that.

Maybe we should get T shirts or coasters with that on.

Frenemy.

Compliance.

Be my frenemy, please.

So we found this way, which we can.

Yeah.

When we're approaching this right from the start, that just gets everything easier and less friction and less fear.

And those few urgent Reword emails at 4:55 where.

When you're right up until the deadline.

Yeah, you're up to the deadline.

So we've boiled it down to this kind of process that we've learned really.

The hard way.

Yeah, the hard way, Darren.

We've been through it.

We know.

So to grow those creative ideas responsibly, we've come up with eco.

Yes.

E. C. Okay, so what's the E?

The E is early.

We think it's really important to not just leave these things to chance at the last minute.

Get in there early and start thinking about some of the, some of the ways, I suppose the disclaimers, some of the things that you're going to want to include in terms of compliance and what that means to make sure it's not afterthought and also to make sure that if there's anyone you need to consider, like a legal team, they're in there from the beginning rather than, oh, great, we've done this.

We're just about to film record.

Should we ask legal?

Okay, should have had that conversation earlier, please, just to make sure everything is considered.

So, yeah, E is for early because.

I mean, I mean, I know if you ever watched the program, have I got news for you.

They have someone up in the TV gallery from Legal, literally listening to everything that's being said and, and scoring them.

So there's something's going to be libelous or not wrong or not factual, then they're there ready and waiting.

So then you're not recording it, you've downed the studio, and then they come back at you.

And I think the thing also we should point out here, a lot of media content seems like it's seamlessly just been created off the hoof.

Anything that is worthwhile and impactful is planned.

And there's nothing wrong with planning.

Planning is brilliant because when you plan, you know what's coming up, you know what you're going to cover, and that allows you to be early and to kind of prevent any of these legalities from getting in the way.

So people are often astounded when I work with them.

Oh, so this is planned.

Yeah.

I didn't just open a microphone and start talking.

We've.

We've had to work through what we're going to record and film because in order to do that, you get the best.

It's easier to edit.

But also you're having these considerations earlier.

And I know sometimes we're in a society where we're time poor, where you think, actually, I haven't got time for this, just quickly do it.

But spending that valuable time to plan means that the E for eco and early means you can have those considerations and consider them rather than them being an afterthought.

Yeah.

I think also it may sound counterintuitive, but I genuinely think, you know, compliance should be your friend.

I'm always on the lookout for ideas.

And actually having someone from compliance in the creative meeting, it may sound like a downer.

They're going to come over and say, oh, you shouldn't have that in there and have that whatever.

But also, I think being curious, not furious, they suddenly tell you what you can't do.

Yeah.

And saying, so, okay, well, why can't we put that in there?

And then they will say, could be a spark for an idea.

It's true.

To go, actually, we'll do it this Way.

Yeah, you're right.

They help you to kind of circumvent it and problem solve.

Rather than you have to send an email and start a whole email chain.

That person's there, you're right in the room at the time, say, right, guys can't do that.

It's okay, so what can we do?

And they can help you solve it there and then.

And then you're like, great, move on to the next.

We're sorted.

Rather than, oh, I don't know, oh, did we do that?

Oh, I'm not sure.

Or did we ask that person or will this emailer.

That's where you're wasting time.

Yeah, yeah, you can't be doing that.

So, yeah.

E is for early.

I feel like I'm on Sesame street now.

The E is for early.

C is for clear.

We want things that are clear, Darren.

We do.

I think it's just really understanding when you've got that, that feedback in the moment from compliance.

So let's say they're in the room with you and say, okay, you know, you want to say this thing, but legally we have to in finance, say your house is at risk or say this, that and the other.

It's always really good to have a really clear hold on that, on that message.

Always all through.

So when legal are coming through to you and saying, we add this or take this away or whatever, just have in your head, okay, what's the impact on the message?

And you know, do.

Is that getting in the way of the message?

Now obviously you can't then go, you know, stick a metaphorical sign up at your, your compliance people, but then that informs your conversation as to, okay, how can we, how can we not quite have our cake and eat it so we're both happy, but then say to the compliance, for example, by saying that it's going to muddy the message.

Is there another way of doing it?

Can we, you know, you know, can we perhaps address that compliance issue and thinking creatively around another way of solving it maybe?

I think so.

And I think when we talk about being clear as part of this eco model, it's the words you choose to use as well.

There's that phrase, isn't it?

Diamond English.

That's very clear, no jargon.

And in the world of comms and marketing, when I'm making and creating campaigns without being patronizing, you're talking like you're talking to an 8 or 9 year old.

That's how simple you have to make it sometimes.

Because if you think about how these messages are Being consumed.

We live in a world where we're so distracted, we are consuming messages while we're on the train, on a bus, while we're walking the dog, while we're cooking, while we're at our desks, and there's loads of stuff going on around us.

So if you think that we are trying to vie for people's attention and grab them, when this complete message is created, it needs to be clear, needs to be memorable, and it needs to give people the opportunity to act.

So the words that you use as well need to be.

No jargon, you know, it needs to be really explicitly clear that people remember.

I mean, going back to Trump, I watched a documentary on him that basically was analyzing why he's so successful with his political messages.

And he said it, this documentary, he said it's because he speaks like a child.

Make America great again.

There's no way you can misunderstand that.

His phrasing, his sentences are short.

The words, you make active America great again.

You know, even when you, you know, when he talks, even in front of the biggest dignitaries of the world, he's.

Oh, yeah, you know, we're gonna, he's never talking in long sentences, in phrasing and words that are over complicated where you needed.

Where you needed thesaurus.

And I think that's the thing when we talk about clear and clarity.

It's just, we can be in industries where we're so used to industry words and speak, but we need to make it clear to the, to the man or the woman on the street.

And that's where I think the seeing clear comes from.

You know, step away and think, would this make sense to someone if I spoke it to them in a supermarket, in a lift, on the street?

Because if it doesn't, you're losing people.

You're losing people.

So the clear really has to be with the chosen words that you go with.

And I think, I don't know about you, but when I talk about the work I do with, it's in video broadcasting, no one in my family really cares.

So actually, they make the best, best people to experiment your messaging.

Because.

And this is the thing is that I think if you experiment with someone who doesn't know it, doesn't know it, I don't know it, or.

And I sometimes, even when my kids were 7 or 8, they're a bit older now, but, you know, I would, I would seriously test something I'd written and just see how well they understood it or didn't.

Exactly.

And just by testing on someone Who's a bit removed from you.

Yeah.

You know, would your mum know what you were talking about?

Yeah, instantly.

And if they don't, then it's a great.

It's a great benchmark.

And I think in terms of this process, I know when I've worked on programming and campaigns before, you're so close to it.

So it's great to step away from it and give it to a trusted colleague, he's probably in your team, but a few steps removed and say to them, right, what do you think?

Does it make sense?

Because they will probably spot a gap that you hadn't even thought of.

But actually at that stage you're better off this spoiled then, rather than when it's out in public externally.

I remember showing someone something and they completely misunderstood it and it was like the opposite.

Yeah.

And I thought.

I hadn't thought about that, I hadn't seen it.

And, you know, just by, you know, sense checking with anybody, everything you do.

Yes, it's.

And some people kind of as a bit of a bias and kind of cheating.

But seriously, it saves you troubles in the long term.

Yeah.

Until, you know, if you do it internally, you can make those mistakes then.

And it's just an internal conversation rather than, oh, we've got to get the legal team in because it's external.

And remember.

Yeah.

If you.

If you might make you do a print run.

Yeah.

And you haven't checked your message.

It's legally compliant, but you haven't checked your message.

And then somebody else comes and looks at it and goes, oh, I thought it was that way around.

So we've got our E, which is for early.

We've got C for clear, and the.

O is for only what's needed.

Okay.

So this is where we get down to not getting, I suppose, not casting our net so wide that it then becomes confusing.

Only what's needed is really sticking to the core of the message that we want to deliver.

So, yeah, when you're in that compliance meeting and they're telling you what you have to do, what you don't have to do.

If you're talking finance, for example, you've got to put all these million and one caveats in.

Well, if you've got your message really loud and clear, then it gives you a really good benchmark to go.

Do we need everything in there?

Can we actually say what we want to say in a kind of a feeling way?

So you're not being specific, but your, Your overall message is actually something more conceptual, then you can say that and it might not need so much legal compliance.

The more specific you are, sometimes, the more legal compliance you need, and that's even from a message point of view, you don't need that.

True.

I think what we're seeing more and more as well, especially in the finance world, like you say, Darren, is when a bank, for example, wants to make a message or share a message, they'll tell you that message in a feeling way, like you said, and then they will signpost you to where you can then go and find out more the T's and sees more the details because they haven't got time to put it all out there.

And let's be honest, in the world of marketing and messaging, is that what you need?

First of all, no.

You want to grab people, give them that call to action, and if they want to qualify it or find out the sources or really try and understand if this message is true.

Well, if you've been able to include that in a booklet, a brochure, presentation or a website, you can then explain behind the scenes of what that message means.

But it's not the first thing you always have to lead with because sometimes when you try and cram too much in, you lose the simplicity, you lose the feeling.

People don't know what to do next and then you're thinking, well, what was it worth?

So actually, don't be afraid to scale it back.

Less is more.

I always say if you tell them everything, they remember nothing.

Yeah, what do you want me to do next?

What?

Because there's so much pressure from Compliance to get everything in those tick boxes that if you remember the, oh, you know, only what's needed, then you can make sure that message is clear and just keep scaling it back.

I think of the beauty adverts, if you see on TV nowadays, I know it's a hair dye advertise and they'll say, you know, this hair dye covers 60% more grays than our competitors.

Pause the advert and look at what they've done.

At the bottom of the advert, they put some writing and then it tells you, you know, based on 60 customers who use the hair dye.

But you know they're not going to go into 60 customers use the hair dye.

They did it like this.

They try.

They don't tell you all that because as a, as a business, they want to tell me as a customer, and I don't dye my hair, by the way, in case you're wondering.

But they're trying to ask more than my life's worth.

But they're trying to tell me as a customer that, you know, I can cover more gray than a leading competitor.

Now, as the customer, if I'm thinking, is this true?

I can then pause the advert, see how they did the survey, but they've already got me with the message.

They've already got me.

They've already got me buying the product and if I want to check it, I can.

But for compliance, they've done their compliance.

They have on the advert, qualified, it explained how they did the survey and research, but they haven't blighted the message so much that I forget.

And guess what, I'm going to go and buy that hair dye because I now know what the message is.

But I also know that the compliance has been done and regulatory wise, that TV advert is there because it has ticked the boxes.

But also I think former from a product point of view, if we're talking about hair dye, for example, then actually the message is actually not about that at all.

It's about lifestyle, right?

Yeah, exactly.

You want to go out with lovely hair, look great and the compliance, the chemicals, whatever, is neither here nor there to you.

But it's in there.

Yeah, but you've got to do it from a legal perspective.

So when you're writing the message, yeah, you know, just think about, do you have to talk about the chemicals or the stats and just go, you're going to feel a great human being.

Great.

So, Eco, we now know that it's all about being early and clear and using only what's needed.

So you can come back and watch this episode again if you need to pick up on these points or share it with someone who you think really needs this guidance.

So that's how we can get those messages across in that regulated environment.

So if we're still clear and we're still creative, we might actually have a message that lands with a human being and gets to do something they wanted to do.

Really?

Absolutely.

So we hope that's been useful and be lovely if you want to share this episode with others who you think will find it useful.

So thanks for listening to our first episode of Land and Deliver.

Now, if you want to catch up on anything we've talked about in this episode, then you can go to our website and look at the show notes and also you can catch up with us and sign up to the podcast so you can get those show notes that include the Eco model that you can print out and keep, buy and also hear about future episodes.

Just to go to our website at Land and Deliver.

Co UK until next time.

See you soon.

Take care.