Welcome to the Potential Leader Lab. I'm your host, Perry Maughmer, and this is where we don't just talk about leadership. We explore, experiment, and hopefully, we evolve our thinking and our behaviors to create a better world for those we care deeply about. Now, this isn't your typical leadership podcast, hopefully. We don't throw around feel good quotes and teach how to climb the corporate ladder. Here, we're about evolution, figuring out what really what it really takes to unlock the leader within you. We believe leadership is not reserved for those with titles or authority, and it really is about action, influence, and owning the moment when leadership is required. And this lab is really built for people I call the relentless few.

Those who are willing to explore every edge, experiment with boundaries that most won't touch, and evolve through sheer force of will. The ones who break the mold, grow stronger with every challenge, and leave the world transformed in their wake. It is messy, uncomfortable, and at times brutally honest, but that's where the real growth happens. Leadership is not something you become, it's something you do. And here in the lab, we're going to explore and experiment on just how to do that. So if you're ready to unlock the potential you already have and embrace leadership as a moment to moment choice, then let's start exploring. And today, we're gonna talk about the brutal truth of light and darkness. Now, this, this episode was kind of, I guess, it originated when I read a quote by Charles Bukowski.

Now, for those of you that don't know Charles Bukowski, he's a poet. He's an interesting guy. You can go read about him on your own. Not, not politically correct, not a, not a model of behavior that you would wanna emulate, probably. So I'm gonna we're gonna focus on the duality of life, joy and suffering, light and dark. And we're gonna introduce some ideas that these opposites aren't they're not contradictions, but they're intertwined aspects of our existence. So I'm gonna start by just reading you this brief quote by, Bukowski. It is curious that the people who rail against my work seem to overlook the sections of it which entail joy and love and hope, and there are such sections.

My days, my years, my life has been ups and downs, light and darknesses. If I wrote only and continually of the light and never mentioned the other, then, as an artist, I would be a liar. Now so today, we're gonna talk about the parts of life that most people don't wanna talk about or face, the real and raw moments that make us who we are. Now, I I think that I believe this because I think leadership is a creative and artistic act. Because leadership, like art, is about creating something new and inspiring. It's about seeing the world in different ways and helping other people's other people see that too. Both being an artist and being a leader require vision, creativity, a willingness to experiment and try new things, along with an ability to communicate and connect with other people. Now, we have highs and lows in leadership and in life.

And if we if we seek only to accentuate the light, we're denying ourselves the full experience of growth. So we need to have a deeper conversation about honesty and leadership, and the willingness to fake face the darkness head on. We need to I believe we need to normalize the dark, not try to avoid or eradicate it. So Thomas More, an Irish writer and poet, said the following, even in the darkest moments, there is a glimmer of hope. The dark night is not the end, but a passage to a new beginning, a chance to rebuild your life on a more solid foundation. And then in her book Night Vision, Seeing Ourselves Through Dark Moods, Mariana Alessandri said the following. She shared this quote from Soren Kierkegaard, and that is anxiety is an intelligent reaction to a world filled with violence and war and poverty in which we're mostly impotent. And she said that anxiety is trying to say something big, and a lot of existentialist philosophy is devoted to the idea that we are terrified of big things.

Death, nothingness, choice, and freedom. We'll scrub toilets if it means avoiding an existential crisis. But darkness is part of life, and it's part of us. And if we trash it, we trash ourselves. Darkness actually adds a lot of things to our lives. We learn our most valuable lessons that we tend to remember for a very long time from the darkness, and it teaches us to appreciate and value the moments of beauty in our life. It stresses our own emotional and mental working mechanisms. And through that stress, it can point out flaws that we need to fix in order to build a stronger inner system.

So, we really do need to embrace both components of what we do. We we can't we can't just look for the light. We can't ignore the darkness. We can't we can't abhor the darkness. I routinely ask people, especially when it comes to to developing as a leader, and then leadership development, because not only, it seems in our society a lot, and we do this with our kids, and we do it I I find that we're doing it in the work environment as well, is we're we're trying to reduce the risk of failure for people. We're trying to make it easier for people.

And, I think that's a mistake

because we don't grow from easy. Kara Lawson. You guys should look this up. I've probably mentioned it before. Kara Lawson is the head basketball head women's basketball coach at Duke, and she has this great, like, 2 minute and 44 second video on YouTube where she talks, about do hard better. She said, she tells her team it's just an impromptu discussion she's having with her team, and she said, it never gets easier, and we should never want it to get easier. We have to become people. We have to winners are people people that are successful in life, not winners.

No one use that term. People that are successful in their life are people who learn how to do hard better. Because it never gets easier and we try to convince ourselves, if I only get through this, it'll be easier. If I only do this, then the next next quarter will be easier. If I only get through this week, next week will be easier. No. It's never gonna get easier. So we need to learn how to do hard better, and that means we have to learn from mistakes.

We have to make mistakes, we have to fail, we have to get up, and we have to go forward. As Rocky said in in the film Rocky Balboa, he said, it ain't about how hard you can hit, it's about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward. But if we if we deny people that option, if we don't allow people to fail, if we don't allow people to hurt, if we don't allow people to feel lousy, right, it doesn't feel good to fail. It doesn't feel good to fall down and scrape your knee. But how else do you learn? I routinely ask leaders in in meetings when we talk about this. I'm like, what did you learn the most in your career from when you were successful or when you failed? And every time, the resounding response is, we learn the most lasting lessons from our failures. Okay. Well, if that's the case, how are we setting other people up to find those same lessons? The best thing we can do as leaders is create opportunities for what I'll call, small failure, non fatal failure when it comes to business.

You know, don't let people do something that's gonna detrimentally impact your business, but you've gotta give them situations where they're gonna fall down and metaphorically scrape their knee. And you gotta let it happen. And you can't rescue them. They have to figure it out. They have to be okay with the darkness. Feeling bad is not a bad thing, and we shouldn't make people feel bad about feeling bad. It's okay to feel bad. It's motivational.

Because if we feel bad, we then behave in a different way so we don't feel that way again. That's learning. Because we do have what I call a we we kinda have, what I'll call the lie of perpetual light. We have this obsession with positivity. Everything's about I mean, look at look at fucking social media. It's all the everybody's perfect curated life. There's no we don't often see people sharing struggle and pain and moments of doubt. And this is that's leadership.

Struggle, pain, moments of doubt. That pretty much sums up your day as a leader. And then if if you're trying to only show your strength and you're hiding vulnerability,

that's not doing anybody any good. Certainly not doing you any good. It's not real. It's not life.

I mean, we have this toxic positivity, this belief that people should always have a positive mindset no matter how difficult the situation is. And there are benefits to being optimistic and engaging in positive thinking, but toxic positivity rejects all the difficult emotions in favor of a cheerful, false facade. One of my favorite sayings is use a smile as your umbrella, and your ass will get soaking wet. Like, I'm big. I I I really optimism? Okay? I'm more pragmatism. Right? I'm more about I'm more pragmatic. And and I believe in you know, it's it's the Stockdale paradox. I have no idea.

All I can do is acknowledge the brutal facts of our current situation. This sucks. I don't have any idea how long it's gonna last. I don't even have any idea how we're gonna get out of it. All I have is complete and utter faith that the people I'm with will figure it out. That's Stockdale paradox. But we've built this culture around fake light and curated moments of joy, where weakness and doubt are filtered out like noise in the background. It's not healthy.

It's not helpful, and it doesn't build leaders for the future. There are consequences to ignoring darkness. When we deny the darker parts of our lives, we and not acknowledge failure and fear and uncertainty, we lose the ability to grow. And embracing that failure builds resilience. And if we and and if you're if you have leaders that fail to acknowledge the struggle, either personally or with their teams, that ultimately just stagnates. Because without that, you don't grow. And if you deny the darkness long enough, it will eat you alive. Nobody grows from endless light.

Growth comes from the shadows. Nothing in nature has light all the time. I mean, you have to be very careful of chasing light. And what I mean by light is success, recognition, happiness. And if that's all you're chasing, then how are you gonna develop resilience and grit when you face inevitable hardships? You have to learn how to fail. You have to learn how to experience failure in a positive way. Because if all you ever find is success, it doesn't mean anything because you never faced any turmoil to get it. You never overcame anything.

And this has nothing to do, I'm gonna say with age, it has to do with with experiences. But there are there are entire organizations that are very successful now that weren't always successful, and people that work there that never experienced a downturn. And I know some leaders in some of those companies who are terrified when it happens because they're not certain that the people in the organization

can bounce back. We learn to bounce back from failure. So, we can't be happy all the time. It has to rain sometimes. But if

you think about that, you know, in a bit the bigger metaphysical challenge. Right? I'm and and I know this probably isn't something everybody wants to talk about, but the only thing that gives life value is death. So if you really truly think about the big the biggest, harriest question you could address, life only has value and is so we only we only cling to it so tightly because of death. Because if you lived forever, it would be boring, and it wouldn't matter, and there would be no tenacity required. But, the fact that we know we're gonna die makes life extremely valuable. We wanna hold on to it because of the thing that we know is coming. Light needs dark. Good needs bad.

Yin yang. You go in every culture, this exists. But we can't just continually seek out light. So when we embrace the darkness, there is a necessity in suffering. We need struggle and pain and failure. It's it's not only is it unavoidable, it's essential. Without suffering, there's no there's no growth. You don't grow.

I've said for I've noticed and in my and so in my experiences, there is only one thing that drives people to evolve most often, and that's pain. It's physical pain, emotional pain, psychological pain, financial pain. I just use pain as an umbrella that when my fear of the known exceeds my fear of the unknown, I'll act. And so I could often tell you that if you're just success after success after success, you'll just stop growing, because it's not motivational. The avoidance of pain is motivational. This isn't about glorifying it. We just have to acknowledge it as a part of life that teaches us more than constant joy ever could. Pain isn't the enemy.

It is the teacher we're all trying to avoid, but it's the one we need most. It teaches us like no other thing. I mean, even in dark times, there's beauty and love and hope and joy in the struggle. I mean, I I know I've told this one of the most one of the biggest epiphanies I ever had was that was that a moment of failure. I had filed bankruptcy from a failed business years ago. We had sold our house because we had to, and then we moved into this little farmhouse, and where I'm standing, had this huge picture window. I can I drive by it all the time still? I I live out by where it is, and I'll drive by it a couple times a week. And there was this this huge picture window that faced the driveway.

And I'm standing there. The kids were Lisa and I were standing there, and the kids were probably 6, 4, and 1. Right? So, you know, they're we're just all kind of in the house. And I look out the picture window out into the driveway, and there's a tow truck out there towing our cars away because they were repossessed. Now, there's a funny story there. I tried to give those damn cars back well in advance they would not take them. I told them I couldn't I had to wait, I don't know, 6 months before they finally came and towed them away. I tried to give them back.

They wouldn't take them. It's a whole another story. But I just found that odd when I called the place that I'm not gonna pay for this anymore, and they're like, okay. I'm like, you wanna come get it? Nope. We have to go through the process. I'm like, okay. So anyway, they're towing the cars away. And it was at that moment that I looked at Lisa and I went, You know what just dawned on me?

They can take everything away from me, except what truly matters. Can't take you. Can't take the kids. As long as I have you guys, as long as we

have each other, we're fine. Because that that stuff doesn't matter.

Well, that was a that was not a happy time. I wasn't feeling great.

I wasn't feeling great about myself, but there was joy in that. There was joy in that darkness that I would never have got to that point by being successful. I mean, in the middle of the worst storm, you'll find the smallest light, which could be a conversation with a friend, just a moment by yourself while you're still, and a reminder that there's more to life than just the pain. Give me one second. There's this great and in case you haven't realized, I have all these computers. And that's because today, what I did was I I usually have paper because I love paper. And I printed off all of my notes for the podcast, and then I, promptly forgot them. And so, I'm working off my luckily, I do have my computers.

So, I can work off of them. But what I'm looking for right now, and you're just gonna have to give me a minute because I'll find it in just a second, is a this great quote that I ran into about this very thing. So I have it right here in front of me, and it's by it's from a book called Kafka on the Shore by Haruki Murakami. And it says, and once the storm is over, you won't remember how you made it through, or how you managed to survive. You won't even be sure whether the storm is really over. But one thing is certain, when you come out of the storm, you won't be the same person who walked in. That's what this storm's all about. One more time.

And once the storm is over, you won't remember how you made it through, or even how you managed to survive. You won't even be sure whether the storm is really over. But one thing is certain, when you come out of the storm, you won't be the same person who walked in. That's what this storm's all about. So when you think about that, when you think about your life, it's storm after storm after storm, and you're never coming out the same way you went in, which is the purpose of the storm. So things aren't happening to you, they're happening for you. Just think about that. If you if you and I'm sure everybody has said this when something happens that you didn't want to happen, and you say, why is this happening to me? If you changed one word if you changed one word, and I'll thank I'll I'll eternally thank Hillary Blair for giving me this statement about words create worlds.

But if you if you just change one word in

that statement, instead of saying, why is this happening to me? If you say, why is this happening for me? Think about that. The next time something bad happens, say, why is this happening for me? And find a reason and take advantage of it.

You know, stoics tell us all events are neutral. Suffering begins the moment we assign meaning. You have the choice to assign whatever meaning you want. If it's happening for you, that's a very different meaning than if it's happening to you. As a leader, you've got to exemplify this. You've got to embrace embrace both sides. Be open about your own struggles. Show show other people how leadership isn't about having the answers, but it's about being authentic.

I know this is not gonna be comfortable, but if you're gonna lead, people need to see your darkness. They need to know

the struggle isn't something they hide. It's something to share and learn from. In one

of my I take every every meeting I go to, I take an example of Kintsugi, which is a Japanese art of repairing broken pottery with gold. And the the philosophy is, it embraces imperfections by highlighting the cracks rather than hiding them. And that symbolizes that flaws and breaks are part of history our history and and they're beautiful. And we accept and celebrate our own vulnerabilities and hardships because it fosters resilience and growth as we recognize our scars make us stronger and more unique.

I've often, and

it it puts me at peace, but I tell people all the time, I would never wish my life on anybody else, but I would also not change one thing. Because it got me to where I am right now, and right now is pretty fucking cool. So I wouldn't change a thing. I wouldn't wish it on anybody, because I've made a ton of bad of bad decisions in my life. I've had a ton of storms that I've gone through. Most self inflicted, as with all of us, if we really truly acknowledge it. But I learned. Now, I will say sometimes there's this great quote that says, in life lessons are repeated until they're learned.

And so I will tell you, some of them took years before I figured out I was being taught a lesson and then did something about it. One of them took nearly 20 years before it dawned on me that I was the problem. Once I acknowledged that, the world changed for me. Took 20 years. I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed when it comes to some things. Now, here's the thing. Both art and leading are a reflection of reality. And that if and he said remember, Bukowski said his last line, if I own if I wrote only and continually of the light and never mentioned the other, then as an artist, I would be a liar.

Okay. Think about that. If you're if you're a leader and you're only showing people the light, if you're only showing people your light and not your darkness, you are a liar. If you only present people with a curated aspects of your leadership and your life, and you paint this unrealistic picture for them, you are lying to yourself and to your people.

And leadership, like life, is nothing if it isn't honest.

And courage must be vulnerable, because vulnerability is true strength, and that's in the moment of transparency. If you wanna connect with people, it's in those moments of transparency. That's where real connections happen, because that's human. Because if I, as a leader, admit I don't have all the questions, I'm inviting collaboration. I'm I'm inviting innovation. I'm inviting deeper loyalty from those around me. This isn't weakness. It's the ultimate form of strength because vulnerability invites people in.

Courage isn't found in the light. It's it's found in the dark, admitting that you don't know what's next and moving forward anyway because then people can relate to you. People can connect with you. Again, it's a simpler, more authentic way to exist in the world. It's pretty scary, because you have no idea what's gonna happen, and you are releasing the you're releasing the need for control. I didn't say releasing control because

you don't have any.

You fool yourself into thinking you do because it, you know, it helps us. I get it. I understand. But once we give up that need for control, things change. When you when you fully embrace both the light and dark side of you, and we stop being afraid of failure and rejection and hardship, then we become resilient and adaptable. And and by and here's the thing, capable of real growth. That's the thing. We become capable of of of evolution once we acknowledge failure, rejection, and hardship.

It's common whether you want it or not. It also inspires inspires much deeper loyalty and respect from your team because you're now human. You're now real. You're now authentic.

And you can stop pretending at that point and start living. That is at that point is when real, true leadership begins, at that point, when you're willing to give up the lie,

and just stand there in all of your humanity. Now, if you remember Bukowski said that joy, love, and hope aren't found in spite of darkness, but within it. Life's beauty comes from its complexity, and it's only when we can acknowledge both sides of it that we really truly live fully. Joy and hope are not waiting for you on the other side of darkness, they're right in the middle of it, if you're willing to look. This is not about, you know, we do hard better. We don't have to wait to the other side. We in the middle of the darkness is joy and hope. When I was standing there with my wife and my kids, and they're asking me why these people are taking our cars, is one of the most joyful moments of my life.

It changed everything for me.

But if I would have been so if I would

have been so focused on the and trying to avoid the negative, trying to move on quickly, trying to pretend like it wasn't bad, it was bad. It was really bad. It was not fun. It was a a legitimate

storm, one of many.

But it still provided me joy and

hope. So, here's what I'd like you to do. Stop chasing the light.

Embrace all of it, the darkness and the light. Live fully, lead fully. Be honest in your struggles, in your doubts, in your failures. It's the only way to grow and absolutely the only way to lead. If you wanna lead, start embracing the darkness. Because the world doesn't need perfect leaders, it needs real ones. So that's it for today's exploration. Now it's up to you to create your own experiments on the way to your own personal evolution, if you so choose.

Remember, leadership is not something that happens to you, it's something you step into. You already have the tools, the influence, and the potential. The only thing left is for you to recognize the moment when leadership is needed and act. So what's your next move? Where will you step up? Because leadership is not about waiting for permission, it's about recognizing that you're already capable right now. The question is, the only question ever, will you take action? Now, if you found today's lab session valuable, make sure to subscribe, share, and keep coming back for more raw, unfiltered conversations on how to unlock the leader within you, so you can create a better world for those you care deeply about. And until next time, remember, leadership's a verb. Go do it.