Are you always expected to have answers? What if true value lies in letting go?

I explore Gelassenheit—Martin Heidegger’s idea of “release”—and what it means for personal growth.

I reflect personally on how reading Heidegger’s concept of "Gelassenheit" (“release”) shook up my beliefs about value, leadership presence, and how to genuinely serve others.

In this episode, I take you inside the journey from my early identity as “the one with answers,” through decades of facilitating groups and leading, to an uncomfortable but liberating realization: there’s another way to show up—by letting go of needing to provide the perfect insight, and instead dwelling in true presence.

Listeners will leave thinking about:

• What Gelassenheit means, its philosophical roots in Meister Eckhart and Heidegger, and how it differs from typical Western thinking
• The difference between calculative (problem-solving) and meditative (aware, open) thinking—and why it matters
• How striving to add value can mask unmet needs for admiration and belonging, and how to notice when this pattern surfaces
• Practical reflections on being present in high-stakes group settings, letting go of prepared answers, and inviting authentic connection
• The ongoing challenge and real-world impact of shifting from “awaiting” the chance to perform to “waiting” openly for what arises

I process this concept in real time, inviting you to reconsider your own habits of mind.

Frequently Asked Questions

What is Gelassenheit?

Gelassenheit is a German term meaning "release," explored by Martin Heidegger and first coined by Meister Eckhart. It describes a way of letting go—not from something, but letting things be, enabling openness and presence in each moment.

What is the difference between calculative and meditative thinking?

Calculative thinking quickly reduces everything to problems, resources, or outcomes to be solved, while meditative thinking is about being open, attentive, and present without rushing to control or resolve.

Can anyone benefit from practicing Gelassenheit?

Yes, anyone interested in self-awareness, peace, and transformative leadership can benefit, though it requires continuous self-observation and courage to let go of old patterns.

Perry Maughmer believes the world deserves better leadership; that in every human interaction there is the opportunity to either build others up or tear them down; and that leadership is the choice we make in those moments.

These beliefs led Perry to create the Potential Leader Lab. He wanted to offer those who share his beliefs the space and safety to explore transformative ideas, experiment with new behaviors, and evolve into the leaders they were meant to be and that the world needs.

This is a framework he has used again and again with his Vistage peer advisory groups and companies like Turn-Key Tunneling, Convergint, Haughn &  Associates, I Am Boundless, Ketchum & Walton, LSP Technologies, and Ahlum & Arbor.

Perry lives and works on the shores of Buckeye Lake in Ohio, in the mountains of northwest Georgia, and on the beach in Anna Maria, Florida with his amazingly creative wife Lisa. They have 2 rescue dogs and are intermittently visited by their 3 wonderful children throughout the year. Perry & Lisa are living life in crescendo and focused on exploring, experimenting, and evolving their vision of a life they have no desire to retire from.

Copyright 2026 Perry Maughmer

Welcome to The Relentless Few. And

so today kicks off an idea.

So we'll see how it goes. Because, you know, everything

I do, I like to think of as a draft and not a final product.

And so this will be. This will definitely be a draft. And my

goal here is to record reality, not content.

So here it is. There's a. There's a

concept that

I stumbled across in reading Martin Heidegger, and

this is. It stuck with me that the. The German word is glassenheit.

And I'll explain in a little bit. And. And you can go look it up

if you want to, but it stuck with me. I read it probably

six months ago and it's just. I've been making little notes and

I've actually got a tab on my. A couple tabs on my computer open to

different references for it. And I just

kept letting it percolate in the background. And

so this is kind of an external

processing of all of that and where I've come

to be with it. And so we'll see if that resonates

with anybody. I'm going to do this all through kind of a lens of.

I'm going to start with my beliefs and then some of my

behaviors and then how I notice the impact and then

awareness. And it isn't really in that order. It actually starts with impact first

and then awareness and then going back and questioning the underlying

belief and then seeing the behavior if you. If it was in that order.

So here goes.

So what this resonated for me. So

Gelassenheit. And it's G E L

A S S E N H E I T

Gelassenheit. And what that really. What it

means is release. And we'll. I'm gonna. I'm gonna

explain a lot more about that because it's not. It's not release from anything. It's.

It is literally release, which

really presents something for me personally, why I'm attracted to it,

because it presents an opportunity for

a different way to show up.

And that is actually why the title of this

recording is another way to show up. And it's really important

for me. I have no idea if it's going to be important or relevant to

anybody else. And part of this is I don't

want to intellectualize and universalize this

as meaning for somebody. Anybody else, because I don't know if it does.

It does for me. And so I'm going to keep everything in the first person

because there is no lesson to be learned here. That's part of

this process. It's not that I'm learning to show up in a way

where there isn't an answer and there isn't a lesson. To me, everything is not

a lesson to be learned. And I can't learn the lesson

because it forces me to jump ahead

when I notice something because I'm immediately trying

to intellectualize it, pull out the lesson and

then learn and then move forward. That's what I'm trying

to stop for myself. And it's really hard.

It's been really challenging. I'm making progress, but

it's really challenging. So anyway, here's where this started for me.

I went back and I looked. I went way, way back.

And so when I'm nine years old, I'm in third

grade and I get an opportunity. I get. I don't

know how it came about selected or volunteered. I don't

really recall that, but I remember we had a President's assembly.

And so I was

tasked with

memorizing a roughly 30 page story

to recite at the President's Day assembly. So that would

have been some, you know, February, mid February. And I remember this

was given. This was, this was. I was, I was given this assignment

sometime in, right around Christmas. So for about 30 to

45 days I had this book. And the name of the story, I remember it

very clearly, was called Marriott Valley Forge. Appropriate

enough for President's Day. Right. So I don't

know, 30 to 45 days. I remember I would read, I would read it

and then recite it at home. So I would spend, you know, I remember my

mom, not so much my dad, but I do remember my mom, you know,

listening and she would have the book and then I would do a couple pages

and then I would, you know, make sure I had that right, and so on

and so forth. So you get the process. So over, you know, 30, 45

days, just, just, just basically rote memorization, just

over and over and over again. Repetition, repetition, repetition. So

time comes, as far as I can remember, I don't, I have a really

positive thought about this. So I think it went well. I have no idea

because, you know, I just, you know, I like everybody else, don't remember history

clearly, but got up in front of the, the, you know,

assembled, you know, all the classes and the

teachers and the students and, and

parents and whoever came and recited this story.

I'm sure there were some hiccups, but for the most part that's what I remember

now. What that, what that triggered in me, if I go back

there, was from that point Forward. I was

always the one with an answer. It really

wasn't anything I ever decided. It was just something that

happened. And I don't ever remember it being

different. That's the interesting part of this for me is

I don't remember it being different. This is just the way it's always

been. So you can imagine if you're nine and that starts and

you get the. I'll just call it the reputation for being the

person that can do things like that. Then, you know, because I

was committed, I wasn't. And I remember what I

remember the feelings. Like I don't remember being anxious. I don't remember being

scared. I just remember being locked in. Like it was fun.

It was fun because I was doing something that nobody

else in my group wanted to or thought they could

do. So I guess that was the fun part for me.

And then it became who I was. Like,

that's how people understood me, as the person who did that.

So then it just got. I just started leaning into it, right? So then it

became a thing and became an identity.

Now if I think about this,

what it satisfied for me was I. It wasn't

because it really wasn't about attention seeking. I didn't want the public

attention for it. What it, what it meant

to me was my value now depended on being admired for what I can

do. And that resonated with me. Like I wanted

other people to admire me for what I was capable

of doing. Not outwardly, not. Not

publicly recognized. I just. I just wanted them, I guess

it just kind of like to be in awe of. Of what I could do.

I like that feeling at that, you know, when I was, you know, 9,

10 years old. And so then that just became what I

sought. Ongoing

now brings me. So, yeah, it's roughly 50

years ago. So I've been doing this for 50 years

in every way, shape or form you could imagine. And.

And so then for the last, you know, dozen years,

doing what I do with facilitating and being a vistage chair and,

and getting up in front of people, that.

That very thing's a strength. It's. It's why people.

That's why people come to me, I guess, because I have answers. Because

I can quickly assimilate information and listen

to them and give them something meaningful.

But it didn't feel the same anymore. It reads as

like competence and professionalism, good at your job. And it's almost

like a currency, you know, it's a currency in that situation, like in a

vistage meeting or in a boardroom with A group of leaders.

It's that, that scenario that, that environment is built to reward what

I do. But it didn't, it wasn't.

It doesn't feel the same way anymore. And, and I don't, to

be quite candid, I just don't want to have to, I don't want to have

to keep being in the room. So now let's go back to Glassenheit.

So this was, this was actually, the original term

was a guy named Meister Eckhart. Now Meister

Eckhart was this person,

I believe, somewhere in the. Let

me, let me tell you,

I have some notes here because I wanted to make sure that

I could give you some details.

And I want to say.

Oh, just bear with me.

Should be right.

Okay, so he lived from about 1260 to

1328 AD and he was

a German Dominican theologian, philosopher and mystic.

All right, so, so there. Now you know, now you know who Meister

Eckhart is. And now it got picked up by Heidegger, which is

where I read it. But Eckhart was a person who

really came up with it. And his had a fairly

religious bent to it. And he said what, he said,

Glassenheit, was that

yourself was emptied. There was no will to dominate

and no will to be regarded in any certain way.

And so that's a tough one

because it can be, you know, it

can feel like you're giving up your edge if you, if you want to do

that, because you're not. The point here is, and I'm still trying to make sense

of this and I've been thinking of, I've been, you know, notes and reading and

all that stuff for about six months now and, and it still is not clear

to me because it's such a foreign concept because, because you're not,

it's not a release from anything. It is a. Just a

releasing of. Not a releasing from.

And that's really hard. It's hard for me to wrap my head around. So

the, the way this showed up for me in behaviors is

that I, I walk

into meetings, I walk into conversations, I walk into anything

in, in the course of what I do for a living.

And I'm, and I'll explain this in a second, I'm awaiting

what's going to happen. Not really waiting. And

awaiting is different than waiting because awaiting

means I've already pre decided what's coming. And I'm kind of

orienting myself around delivering the insight.

And that's different than waiting because waiting is being

open and having like an Attentive readiness.

I haven't predetermined anything. I'm actually in that

moment waiting to see what happens. So if I'm awaiting,

that means I'm awaiting something, right? So there's a something that I'm

awaiting. That's how I spend my time. I spend my time

awaiting. When I'm going into a meeting, when I'm going in anything with a group,

with one person, it's always about, okay, what am I facing? What are my

possible answers? How am I going to add value? And that becomes. The trigger for

me is adding value, right? It's

instinctual for me at every turn because I'm listening for the opportunity

to add value because I have to earn the right to be in the room.

That's my. That's my behavior. My behavior drives. Because my underlying belief

is that I've got to add value to be in the room. That's

my belief which drives all this behavior. So

genuine waiting is like an attentive openness to

what's actually arriving. So there is no predetermined

anything, topic, object, solution,

anything. It's literally being open to what happens in the room.

And so that's what I've been working on

with, I can honestly say

middling success.

So if I'm preparing the answer before I'm in the room,

and I'm kind of managing that moment of delivery and I'm tracking whether it

lands and if it produced, to be honest, it produced

the awe and admiration that I'm seeking, that's not a healthy way

to be. And it's also not helpful. It's not healthy for me. It's

not helpful for other people. And it's. And it's really, you know,

and I'm gonna. There's this other differentiation between

calculative and meditative thinking, which we'll get to in a little bit,

because that kind of calculative mode is I'm treating that

room as something to produce an effect in

rather than something to actually be in. Like, I'm not. I'm

not aware. I'm not. I'm not open in the room at the moment, which is

really what I want. Because there's a peacefulness in this room. And I guess

this is really what led me here, is seeking

peace in my work.

Because what I had convinced myself of was that the

work, the way I did the work,

caused a lot of stress and tension for me. And so I was making

the case in my head for a number of months and going on

a year or two, that this work couldn't be done forever because

of the toll of doing it.

And as I started leaning more into the

reading more existential philosophers and

phenomenology and people that were the founding fathers of

phenomenology, Heidegger being one of the big ones, I ran

across all this and suddenly came to me that there,

there's a different way, and for me, a better way, and hopefully for

other people, a better way to do the work that I do that

doesn't produce stress because there is

another way I can show up. Now, that's

sounds simple, but it's far from easy. So

the impact,

I'm not dwelling in the actual encounter, like the impact

on other people is, yeah, I'm giving people solutions, I'm giving people

answers, I'm giving people insights, whatever you want to call it.

But I'm not sure that's the value. I'm not sure that's the.

It's not what I. It's not what I want to do for.

For 50, you know, let's call it

48, 49 years. It's what I did without

thinking. I never, never even thought about this. I just thought, hey,

this was. This was the value. This is what I do. This is. And when

I ask other people over the years, you know, what value do I bring? It

was always, well, you're very insightful. You can see through. You can cut through all

this. You can. And I get that. But what was I losing in

the process? And what were other people losing in that process?

Because if I'm managing whether I'll be admired

instead of dwelling in the actual encounter, what are, what is everybody in that

encounter losing? That. That's where I wanted to be. This.

To open up a space for people and invite them in

to see what happens. Because when you, when you bring a room together of anywhere

from 15 to 18 people once a month,

to think that the hubris involved, first of all,

in creating an agenda, which I do, and there has to

be, you know, they call it what you want, agenda, intentions, whatever.

But to create an agenda two weeks in advance and then have these, you know,

these people who are leading in organizations who are choosing to lead

show up on that day and then having no way or

having no interest. I guess not. And I don't know if

it's interest but no availability to be open to what's happening in the room that

day. However, those people showed up because they've, you know, they've read the agenda

and whatever. But how are they showing up? What do they need. And

where's the space for that? Where's the space for

taking that one day and making it into a conversation

that's meaningful for everybody in the room instead of

simply adhering to an agenda that may or may not

apply anymore?

So the impact

on an awaited answer isn't the same as a weighted one.

And I don't mean weighted W, e I, G, H, T e D. I

actually mean weighted W, a, I, T e d. So if

I'm giving an answer, and I know most of the folks that I work

with, and I know a lot about their background, I know a lot about their

company, so when I give them an awaited answer, you

know something I've already preloaded, it isn't necessarily bad,

but I may not be completely aware and

awakened to what's in the room at the time.

They may actually get value out of it. But

that's not. There's not truth arising from what's actually present

between me and the people in the room. And that's where

I want to go. That's. That's what I'm. Because there's a peace

in that for me. P, E A C. You know, there's

a. There's a. There's actually a.

And I guess peace is the best word I can come up with. It's just

being at peace with it and being part of what's going on in

the room and being totally open and aware and present

with what's going on in the room seems to me to be a

much more powerful thing than coming up with

answers. And there's a cost of that. The impact.

Going back to the impact, because we talked about beliefs, I talked about some of

my behaviors with the impact. There's a. There's a subtle cost.

Because what I want, you know, what I've been wanting for a long time,

since I was nine years old, is to be admired for my competence, you know,

and it's rewarded by everyone

because no one really has a reason to question it. Because that's why they. That's

why everybody. That's why one of the things that people come for, I guess. And

that's what makes it durable instead of, like, obviously broken, because

it's just part of the. I'm gonna use the term game.

It's part of the agreement.

And this is something. And there's a huge paradox here because I

can't fix it by trying harder to let go of it.

Right? That's the same thing just redirected. So I have

to. That's where we Skip into awareness. And I think

part of this has come up for me and I'm sure when I'm bringing it

up to, to teams that I work with and in meetings, because it's

been something that I've. That I've been hyper aware of lately,

lately, which is being able to slow down and

allow these things to happen. And I think that's

a real issue for us. Wait a minute. There it

was. There it was. Bam. Got it. Okay, so I want you to see what

I just did. I turned. I universalized it, right? That's

what I was going to do. I was going to make a lesson out of

it. I was going to. We were going to learn. We're going to learn. We're

going to learn it. We're going to learn something today. That's not what I meant

to do. So I'm aware of it and I caught it. So I want to

back up. For me, slowing down

is hard just for me. I don't know about anybody else,

but for me it's hard because of back to the

value and wanting to add as much value as possible. And I actually, when

people, when we're in those meetings and people start talking,

the behavior. I'm going to skip back one to behavior

is that when I hear somebody start talking about something that I've heard

them talk about before, I'm already ahead. I'm already awaiting

the opportunity to give the answer

under the guise of listening, which I'm not. Because

the, the pace at which I'm working,

my internal clock, I'm not allowing for that connection to

happen. I'm not allowing myself to truly listen and be

curious because

we've already, I've already jumped ahead and that's the

behavior that doesn't deliver the value,

the real genuine value that could be delivered, I think.

And so the awareness side is the real discipline

in Gelassenheit isn't releasing. It's noticing when

that grip has returned. It's noticing what I just did.

It's noticing when I get the instinct to do it,

when the grip of wanting to be seen as the one who gets

it, who has it, who can cut through and say what

it is. And that's what this, this whole

effort, this whole discussion today is about willing to be seen

differently. Because again, I'm. I'm recording

reality and I'm thinking out loud. I'm not recording

content. I have, I have tons of notes and, and different

things that, that pertain to what we're talking about today, but no content.

Like I Don't have an answer. I don't. I don't have a package where I'm

going to deliver any steps to sense. And I figured it out.

I have not figured it out. I don't think I'm only 10 to

20% into being able to really understand what it means to me,

let alone explaining it to anybody else, because I have no idea if it matters

to anybody else. That to me, that's just hubris.

So I want to dwell in

it, not on it, but I do want to dwell in it. I

want to sit with it. And that's not a

state that I achieve and then carry forward. It's

something I have to stay in moment to moment to be

able to dwell in something and not dwell on it. And that's

another thing that I'm working on and trying to differentiate when one

slips over to the other. And so what

I'm trying to think through is how does this show up? How do I

know if this is how I'm showing up? And it really

will be about noticing

and noticing and then releasing, you know, glass and height. It's.

It's about releasing it when I do notice it and then continuing to notice it

and release it. And I

want. I want insight for people to arise

instead of it being produced. And so that means I have

got to release the grip on whatever happens and

not worrying about if it's impressive or not. And that will be hard.

And you know what? Will I be able to

ever leave a meeting and not feel like

I've been genuinely useful the way that I would

determine useful or productive before

and not admired for it, but

still feel at peace about how I showed up? That will be

the tough thing for me. That's. That's very uncomfortable.

I've been trying. I actually came

up with a little phrase for myself, and this is this. I don't know how

it works for anybody else, but for me, this particular thing started.

Let's see, it's 2026. It started in

2024. I actually came up with this little mantra of

taking up less space. I had this little phrase that I would share that I

wanted to take up less space in all areas of my life, both. I wanted

to be lighter. I wanted to take up less space physically. I wanted to take

up less space emotionally and mentally and cognitively and

metaphorically and whatever other, you know, ecumenically, however you want

to say it, right? It was just about taking up less space. I didn't even

know what it. I look back now, and when I

said That I didn't even know what it meant like I thought I did.

And that was in January of 2024, so

well over two years ago. And I'm still trying to figure it out.

Like, what I thought it meant then is not how I understand it

now. So I just kept at it. And I can look back now and go,

okay, I think this is what I meant back then. And I have

words for it. Like, I knew it was out there, and

I'm still, again, maybe 20% into it, of really, truly

understanding what that means and how that. How I can show up different.

And it's a long man. This stuff takes a while,

much longer than I'd like it to. I'd like to be able to evolve

on demand, if that were a thing, but it

isn't and it shouldn't be. And so that's

where I want to get my. I want to wrap my head around

calculative thinking versus meditative thinking.

Because calculative thinking.

Calculative thinking is how I've thought for, you know, 50 years.

It. It immediately reduces everything to a resource or a

means or a problem to solve, or an insight or a learning or something, right?

It jumps right to it because of the uncomfortableness.

Because when something. When a problem arises, it. It

generates discomfort. And so my first

intuition is to intellectualize it so I can learn from it and then I

can move away from it. And I don't think that's

helpful for me. Sometimes it's okay, but not all the

time because that discomfort is a good indicator. It means

something. And that's what meditative thinking is. It's thinking

without that reflex to use or control or grasp

something, to understand something and then move on and

then learn it. You know, say that I've learned from it because I haven't

learned. Haven't learned from it. I don't even understand it. I can. That can attest

to that by this very thing about, you know, walking around

proclaiming that I want to, you know, take up less space. I had

no idea what that actually meant, and I didn't.

It wasn't done with me. Like the. The thing. Something

happened and I knew it. I could. I could feel it, but

I didn't understand what it was. And I still. Now I'm

closer to actually understanding how far away I am,

if that makes any sense. I haven't.

There's nothing to figure out. That's the other part of this. That's

what releasing is that it becomes. There's nothing

to figure out.

There's

Meister Eckhart, he. He gave this sermon. It

was called Blessed are the Poor in spirit. Now remember, this is, you know,

1200, 1300s, and he talked about,

he gave these radical definitions of the concept. It was a three part structure.

It was wanting nothing, knowing nothing and having nothing.

And there's some radical stuff, I'm sure, back then, and it's

even radical now. For me now, wanting nothing was not

about material things. It was about

not having a self that needs an outcome to complete itself,

which is totally foreign for us in Western culture.

But to him, true poverty meant

releasing wanting altogether, not redirecting

it towards something more noble, but being able to release

wanting altogether. So that was wanting nothing and then

knowing nothing is not. Again, it's not literal ignorance.

What he meant was releasing the self's need to know itself as

devoted, as advancing or making progress.

Because the more I can say, I know I'm becoming more

released or more spiritual or more empty, now introduced a

self that's watching and measuring itself. So real

poverty go back to blessed are the poor. Real poverty doesn't

know itself as poverty. Real poverty doesn't know itself

as poverty because it's released it. And then having nothing.

And this is probably the most radical of the three. It's not about

possessions, not even a place or a where.

But if you have. He what Eckhart. Eckhart's logic was

this. If you have something, if you still have some empty

space you're keeping ready and available, you still have something,

you have the readiness itself, the container, you have the intention.

True poverty means not even holding open a special place.

There's nothing prepared, there's just nothing.

And in that total absence, not the presence of readiness,

but the total absence of. That's where Eckhart, he's a

theologian, says the birth of God actually happens

now. So want nothing, know nothing, have nothing.

And that goes back to that. This is for him, Gelassenheit. It's

release. It's releasement.

So that's where I'm at.

It's an interesting place to be for me.

I feel.

I feel slightly more at peace

the more I start to

internalize what this means and

how it provides me with another way to show up

that does truly align with

how I want to. How I want to serve people,

how I want what I want to offer,

that kind of emptiness. And to me,

that emptiness turns into presence. Because

if all of that judgment and calculative

thinking and awaiting is

gone, then I offer presence

for the other person to step into and

be.

Again, this is the way I've been.

Let's call it 50 years. So

the step one, the awareness, right? Awareness and impact.

I catch myself now, like, I see when I'm gripping for it. I see because

I. I hold on tight to it and I. I see it readily.

And there are a lot of instances where I can. I can release that grip

and be. But, man, that sometimes that.

That pull is tough.

And these are some. I mean, I. I can't tell you how many

times I've read over some of this stuff. And it. I just don't. I mean,

it is not processing like it is some. It is deep to the

point of, you know,

like reading something a dozen times and still struggling

with, trying to truly understand what it said. Which,

by the way, is awesome.

It's a. For me, it's a great use of time

because that's how. That's what I have to do. What I have to do is

show up for people in a way that

aligns with what I believe is

needed. And I've

talked. I've actually written some stuff down about wanting a more

monastic approach to what I do

and being that emptiness,

providing that. That emptiness, which I don't view as a bad thing because

that means I'm fully present because I'm not bringing anything with

me. I've released it all. So I can. I can

listen and I can hear

and I can be curious.

So that's where we're at. That's where

I'm at. Somewhere we're at again. There I went and did it again.

Nothing to learn, no lesson, no conclusion

at all for me. But I'm

in it and I really enjoy it

and it matters to me and

that's why I share it. So I hope

it's been interesting to listen to.

If it has, then stay tuned because at some point

you might hear more about something else and another string that gets

pulled and how this all connects and

how I continue to try to make sense

of the life I'm living. And I hope

you're doing the same for you.

We'll talk again soon. Thanks.