Welcome to this special—and final—episode of the Relentless Few podcast.

I take some time to reflect on the journey this podcast has taken—from its origins and growth to why I’m choosing to bring it to a close, at least in its current form.

Throughout our time together, I’ve built everything around the E4 rhythm: explore, experiment, evaluate, and edit. Today, I challenge the common belief that ending or pausing something means we’ve failed. In reality, I see this as an essential, conscious edit and an evolution in who I am and the work I want to do next.

I invite you to join me as I reckon with the inevitability of drift, share how I’m returning to what matters most, and explain why the process of periodic reflection and editing isn’t just a framework—it’s a way of being.

As I step away from this podcast, my hope is that you’ll consider where you might need to explore, experiment, and edit in your own life. Remember: endings aren’t failures. The music continues, even if the arrangement changes. This episode is my closing reflection on becoming, authorship of our lives, and staying relentlessly true to what matters most.

Moments

00:00 "Final Podcast Episode Announcement"

05:55 "Embrace Curiosity, Not Self-Judgment"

08:13 "Embrace Change: Experiment, Evaluate, Evolve"

11:31 Podcast Ending Decision Reflections

14:11 Evolving Through Intentional Choices

17:15 Intentional Choices, No Regrets

20:16 Creating the Self: Intentional Growth

Perry Maughmer believes the world deserves better leadership; that in every human interaction there is the opportunity to either build others up or tear them down; and that leadership is the choice we make in those moments.

These beliefs led Perry to create the Potential Leader Lab. He wanted to offer those who share his beliefs the space and safety to explore transformative ideas, experiment with new behaviors, and evolve into the leaders they were meant to be and that the world needs.

This is a framework he has used again and again with his Vistage peer advisory groups and companies like Turn-Key Tunneling, Convergint, Haughn &  Associates, I Am Boundless, Ketchum & Walton, LSP Technologies, and Ahlum & Arbor.

Perry lives and works on the shores of Buckeye Lake in Ohio, in the mountains of northwest Georgia, and on the beach in Anna Maria, Florida with his amazingly creative wife Lisa. They have 2 rescue dogs and are intermittently visited by their 3 wonderful children throughout the year. Perry & Lisa are living life in crescendo and focused on exploring, experimenting, and evolving their vision of a life they have no desire to retire from.

Copyright 2025 Perry Maughmer

Welcome to The Relentless Few podcast and I'm your host, Perry Maughmer. So this is the third in a series of three podcasts, and they were the. The theme of these, the name of them was if this is the End. And I heard from several people, so I appreciate folks emailing me. And I guess the title of this one will be if this is the End. And staying with the theme, the second part of that title is it's the Evolution. And so I want to start off by. I think it's important.

And one of the things we talk about a lot is how do you. Is connecting, you know, your. Your head and your body. And so I think it's important from an embodiment standpoint to talk about not just what we think, but how we feel. And I can tell you that the way I feel right now is. Is the best way I can sum it up is peaceful with. With where this has ended up. And so I'd like you to.

I'd like to welcome everybody back to what will be and must be for now, the final transmission of this podcast as it sits. For now. Because I have no idea what the future holds. And there may be. I guess what I would say is if I find it, if I find meaning in a message that I feel needs to be put out there or transmitted, I might do that. But this will be the final scheduled version of this podcast. And it's funny because as I thought about it, it's a. It's a natural evolution and an editing that goes on for me because all of the genesis of this and how it started over the last couple years, because I believe this is like the 81st episode, a lot of it took on a life of its own, which is kind of why it's ending in its current form, because it was all created to get into rhythm with other people.

And it ended up turning into emails every week. And we're going to do it. Instead of every two weeks, we're going to do it every week. Because if. If you do it every week, it. People get used to it and they listen more and all of that stuff, which that's what led me to the evaluation stage of. Of the E4 rhythm, which was evaluating why I was doing any of any of that. And it didn't align with what I wanted to do.

So that's why we're moving on. So this. Not really. I don't view this as a goodbye. It's just part of. It's actually evolution in real time. This is a choice. It's A conscious edit.

And it's a return from drift. And for me, drift is just the accumulation of unconscious choices. So if you've been listening, you know, this far from sudden, it's a result of the very rhythm I've been practicing and preaching and pushing for everybody, which is explore, experiment, evaluate, and edit. And that's why this isn't failure. It's actually that rhythm at work. So, and I want to also say, as I was. As I was thinking about recording this and going over notes the last couple hours, I talk about this word, ending. And I think we've been sold a lie, that stopping or ending something implies failure, and that if we change our minds or our direction means we were wrong to begin with.

And to be quite honest, that's one of the reasons that the E4 rhythm comes up for me, is because it erases that judgment, which I think is implied. And I just don't believe that our lives as humans work that way. We can't just commit to something and then never change it or never stop it. And if we do change it or stop it, we can't get wrapped up in judgment about the thing was wrong, because it probably wasn't just like this. There's nothing. I have no regrets about doing this podcast, and I have no regrets about ending this podcast. It was great. I'm editing it.

Not because I didn't love it, because I did. And not because it didn't have value, because I think it did, but because I've become someone else by doing it, and that someone else knows. This part is complete now. And that's the rhythm of becoming. And Maurice Merlot Ponty said, becoming is the mode of truth. And so truth isn't static. It doesn't sit on a pedestal somewhere in a museum waiting to be found. We find truth through becoming.

Truth unfolds during our experience, in the act of doing and reflecting. And that's how this ties directly into E4, because clarity comes through immersion, not through observation. I didn't know the podcast had completed its purpose until I became someone else through it. So that rhythm that explore, experiment, evaluate, edit, isn't linear. It's not a straight line. It's not a one and done. It's done again and again and again until the work aligns with the life you're meant to live. And so here's the thing.

Drift is inevitable. Return is optional because drift happens to all of us all the time, because the world, right, I don't have to tell you why it happens. We don't choose It. It's just. Drift is loud, right? We're bombarded with messages every day. It's not subtle. It does creep. And it kind of whispers to you and it convinces you you're still on track even as the track disappears beneath your feet.

And drift is that slow erosion of alignment. And the longer you go without checking back in, the more you rationalize staying off course. You begin serving the momentum of the thing, not the meaning behind it. And the podcast became something I did because I had done it, because people expected it, because it quote, unquote worked. But Emmanuel Levinas said, we are always already elsewhere than where we are. And I think that's the challenge. We get pulled into the future, right? We get pulled. This elsewhereness is subtle but constant, requiring almost demanding a practice of return.

And that's what's being practiced here, right? Is that return, the return to what was most important to me. I was able to re evaluate what was important to me and then edit according to that. And that's what underscores the importance of a periodic devaluation, to realize if we're off course and to make a conscious choice to edit. But there's nothing. The thing we have to overcome. We have to move from judgment to curiosity to do that. Because if we're so busy judging ourselves, that's what will prevent us from actually evaluating and editing, because we're too busy judging ourselves and calling ourselves failure for needing to evolve, which is just. It's just what's sad.

It's what it is. So I think that what this episode for me is, it's a return. It's a reckoning of sorts. It's an edit. And that's why it's important to understand that E4 rhythm is not a framework. It's a way of being. And too many, too, too many of us look for hacks or systems or models or tips or tricks because we're predisposed to look for answers. We just want to solve things and move on.

And this is a rhythm of becoming. It's how you live when you refuse to be numb. Explore not just options but yourself. What moves you, what unsettles you, what's quietly been asking you, questioning and requesting your attention. Miguel de Unamuno said, he who does not seek is not truly alive. He who does not seek is not truly alive. And that speaks to the vitality of searching and longing and questioning. A life that isn't probing or restless isn't really living.

It's existing. But we have to admit that stasis is A form of death. You know, you can't just maintain it doesn't work that way. And this is why we explore. It's an invitation to remain in that state of curiosity, in state of doubt and quest. This podcast was part of my search and ending. It is part of what I found and what now must be explored next. Action is our only access point to evolution.

That's why experimentation is critical. And then we have to evaluate not just the outcomes, but the experience itself. Who were we when we started versus who are we? Through the act itself. And then editing is by far the hardest part. Letting go of things that we once loved, the habits that have served us, the identity that fit. Ending is both death and rebirth. It's where most people bail, to be honest with you. But those relentless few, the few people, because all can.

Most don't. Few will. Those few people won't bail. They actually bleed for this. Henri Bergson said, to change is to mature. To mature is to go on creating oneself endlessly. So just when we think about that kind of evolutionary thinking, placing creativity at the center of existence, life is a process. Life is process, not product.

You're never finished. You don't arrive. You can always be editing. And that's why I like to say, you know, the relentless few. We're done when we're dead. That's when we're done. And it's so you can look at that one of two ways on a spectrum. You can look at it as horribly weighty and heavy and sense of duty and responsibility, or the other side of that is, if you look at it, that's judgment.

If you look at it from a curiosity standpoint, it's evolution. It's endless opportunity to become. And that is truly inspirational to me, because the edit phase is where most people resist. We're afraid to evolve, afraid to lose what we've built. But if you're serious about freedom, you've got to be willing to change the instrument without abandoning the music. That's what evolution is. We're changing the instrument. We're not abandoning the music.

This podcast is now an edit. That doesn't mean it didn't belong. It just means its time is complete. And I wouldn't have known that without living through the rhythm. So this isn't just philosophy. It's existence. We are not static beings. We are not fixed.

We are becoming constantly and relentlessly, either by choice or not. So even if you decide, Rush was right. Even if you decide not to make a choice, that's a choice. So we're becoming someone. Either way, the choice we have is, is it going to be intentional? Are you going to become someone intentionally? And the only way to live authentically is to act, to take responsibility for our choices and face the consequences with open eyes. Sartre said man is nothing else but what he makes of himself. You are what you do, not what you intend. And your identity is not a fixed state.

It's forged in action. And that's the connection to experiment. It's the essential proving ground. I created this podcast not to theorize, but to act my way into being. And now I'm acting again, not to preserve the form, but to remain faithful to the self that I'm making. And I can't get lost in abstractions. I have to stay in the experience that lived moment and what it feels like to do the work, not just talk about it. And that's.

Lisa texted me this morning and she's like, well, how do you feel about recording the podcast? She's asked me several times over the last couple weeks because we're not in total agreement on whether it should end or not. And I told her, I said, I feel great, I feel at peace, I feel joyful, and I feel relieved because I feel like I've come back to this decision supports other things because this wasn't made in a vacuum. Like, this decision to end. This wasn't made in a vacuum. It was an edit. It was an edit to create room for something else that was that came out of this. Something that over the past two years that has come through my exploration that I've discovered that I would never have discovered otherwise. For those of you that have been around for a while, we used to be an E3.

For several years it was an E3 framework. And through all of my research and discussions and actions and using it with people, it became apparent to me that it was not only did it need to have four pieces, one of the pieces was not accurate. So I had to change things up a little bit. That felt good, but that would never have happened without this. So again, this experience for me, what I did, this exploration served a purpose. It served a great purpose for me. It just. Now it doesn't belong anymore.

Then it's just its time is complete. And I wouldn't have known that without living through the rhythm. So the next part of this is we have to. Yann Patocka said, all knowledge is in service of the practical task of existence. And this is the last thing or not the last thing. But this is a very important piece of this. This is the experimentation piece as well. Theories must collapse into the dirt and friction of reality or be discarded.

We cannot think our way into things. We have to act our way. That's why exploration is important. It's an action. Experimentation is really important. We have to do right. I wasn't podcasting for the sake of the content. I was podcasting because it was part of my own becoming.

And then when that no longer served the practical task of my existence, it became clutter. It needed to be edited. And the. And that's what I'm doing. Because when I go back to what I want most, what I want most is hanging out there as the thing that. It gives me context for all of these decisions. Because in order to explore and experiment and evaluate and edit, it has to be in context of something. It can't be on its own.

So it's in context of what I want most. And then I realized from a return on energy, because that's what we need to focus on as humans, because we have a limited amount of. Where did I want to direct it? Because for everything I say yes to, I'm saying no to something else. And so I wanted to make sure that I was saying no to the right things so I could say yes to the right things. I mean, this podcast taught me how I show up in the world. It made me pay attention to my voice, to my fears, to the places that I hide. And now I'm going to step away. Not because I'm retreating, but because I'm evolving.

And I'm not. I'm not stopping. I'm just shifting the space where I do the work, the work's going to continue. The medium was the means. The message remains. And let me be very clear. Stepping away from this podcast isn't about stopping. It's about stopping the performance.

I've realized something through this rhythm, something that I wouldn't have seen without the exploration and these experiments. And this time, what I'll call in the dark. I found what I call the work. Not the work. I talk about the work I do. And here's the truth. The work is not the job. It's not what pays the bills or builds the resume.

It's how we show up in the world, fully, consistently, and fiercely for those we care deeply about. The work is about alignment. It's about integrity. Showing up when it's hard, choosing presence over distraction. It's quiet, it's unseen, and it costs more than most people are willing to pay. And that's the line for me now. If. If you don't want to do the work, I'm not going to talk about it.

I don't want or need followers. I need fellow travelers. That's what I need. And so this. This talking about it is. I've talked about it enough at this point. Now I have to go do the work, because that work that I'm going to do, I won't be promoting it, I won't be posting about it. And if you're meant to find it, you will, but only if you're ready to walk through it, not just think or talk about it for yourself.

And that's. I want you to. As this whole thing's going on, this discussion you're having, that you're experiencing within the voices in my head, I want you to. I want you to find yourself in it. What are you thinking about right now? What in your life are you thinking about? Where are you in that rhythm? What are you exploring, experimenting with, evaluating and editing? Because, by the way, all four of those things can go on at the same time with many different things. So it's not linear. You don't have to follow a process. You're not doing one, then the other.

Oftentimes if we experiment with something, we have to go back and explore more on something else before we can get to evaluate and edit. It's perfectly okay. But where do you see this in your life? This isn't. I'm not somehow special or different from anybody else. This happens for all of us. It's either happening to us or for us. You get to choose. It can either happen for you if you're.

If you're ahead of it and intentional, or it happens to you. That's your choice, though. So I want you to think about as I finish this up, where do you see yourself here? Right? Where does. Where does this mean? What does this mean to you in your life? Are there places to edit? Are there places that would. Are there no's that you need to say that would help you say yes to things that matter most to you? And do you even know what you want most? So I regret nothing about this podcast. Not the less than stellar, messy episodes, not the stumbles and not the shifts in tone, pace, or direction or even name. I don't regret any of it. Everything I've done here mattered to me.

Not because it made me known, but because it made me more me. And I don't regret walking away either. Because I'm not escaping, I'm not hiding. I'm editing. This podcast was just one Instrument, the music's going to continue. It'll be a different rhythm, but the same song, because the melody is going to be the same, only the arrangement is going to change. And that's very specific on my part, because I'm going to evolve the way I work and the way I do the work. And my commitment to the work requires certain things stop, and this is one of them.

And that whole. The melody being the same and the arrangement. Changing this podcast is just a transmission. The podcast is not the essence. It's an arrangement. The deeper melody, my rhythm, my reason, all of that remains intact, and that's part of the editing process. I'm not abandoning the work. I'm just changing the arrangement through which the work is expressed.

Form dies, but rhythm endures. So what now? I don't know. And that's kind of the point. I mean, I have a direction, not a destination, right? That's important for me. I don't have the ego to believe I can select a destination, I can select a direction, and then I'll figure out the destination. And I actually. I don't know that I'll ever have one, because, as Cervantes says, the journey is the end, right? So I'm clearing off that space to explore again, to experiment without obligation, to let the work lead me instead of clinging to the structure I built around it. It's funny, because experimenting is a lot like playing.

Play is defined as an activity where the activity is the goal. There's no desired outcome in play. If you truly play, the activity itself is the goal. Like, you do it to do it. You don't do it for an outcome. And if you do that, just think about if you're playing in the purest sense of the words. If you ever watch kids play, they're completely present in that moment. They honor that moment because that's the thing.

The thing is to do the thing, not to do it, to get something. At some point, we shift as humans, as we develop into what we'll call adults, whatever that means, and we start to shift to, I gotta do something to get something. We no longer just do something to do something. So if this podcast did mean anything to you, don't. Don't mourn its end at all. Mourn the parts of your own life you're afraid to edit and then get to work, explore, experiment, evaluate, and edit over and over, brutally, beautifully, until you've intentionally become someone worth being. The self is not something that we find. It's something we create.

There is no essential self waiting to be discovered. It's not out there somewhere for you to find. You create it along the way. And it's actually forged. And we all are forged through our experiences. And they're not good or bad, they're just experiences. I've said this before, and I think it fits here. And that is.

Lisa and I talk many times about our life today together. And I tell my kids, I'm like, look, I would never wish my life on anybody. But I also would not change one thing, because all of those experiences forged me into who I am now, doing what I do now. And I'm. I'm really happy with that. So I can't go back and. And want to change any of that stuff. Because all of it had value, because it helped me become.

It helped me develop the. The tenacity for self. Authorship. Not ownership, but authorship. Because we're constantly writing the story of our life. So this has been always been, regardless of the title, it's always been the relentless view. But more than that, it's been the E4 at play. It's been the recurrence effect at work.

It's the willingness to return. I'd like to thank you for walking it with me. And now you have the same choice that I have. You can carry it or bury it. I choose to carry it. And that's to stay true to the rhythm beneath the thing that I'm working on. But in order to do that, I firmly believe this, we've got to be willing to disappear to do this work, even when no one is watching. Especially then.

Let the noise pass. Let the spotlight burn out. What matters doesn't need an audience. It needs your devotion. And if you feel that pull, follow it. If not, that's okay too. As always, no judgment. But I'll be where the work lives.

Quiet, unseen, relentless.