We thrive in community. Barry welcomes back Pastor Kelly Rhodes for an in-depth conversation on resilience in fatherhood. They discuss the pros and cons of radical self-reliance and adaptability, the importance of responding rather than reacting, and how to maintain balanced, healthy relationships.
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Transcripts
Barry Edgemon:
Resilience is of powerful character for a dad to have, but today we're going to talk about.
Barry Edgemon:
Not only resilience, how good it is, but it's sourcing and how it can destroy a man's life and his family unbridled unhealthy resilience kills instead of builds.
Barry Edgemon:
This is Barry with Father Seekers and this is the podcast Teach me to Father.
Barry Edgemon:
I'm back with my friend and brother and spiritual influencer in my life, pastor Kelly Rhodes in Lebanon, Missouri.
Barry Edgemon:
Thanks for coming back again, pastor Kelly.
Kelly Rhodes:
Happy to be here, man.
Barry Edgemon:
Yep.
Barry Edgemon:
And if you have not listened to the two previous podcast, uh, Kelly has shared his story with us and his rich history, um, of family and fatherhood and, and ministry.
Barry Edgemon:
Today we're gonna talk about something that every father has this spiritual.
Barry Edgemon:
It's a deficit if it's not used right.
Barry Edgemon:
It's called resilience.
Barry Edgemon:
And today we're going to explore resilience.
Barry Edgemon:
It's pros and its cons, how to use it in a healthy way, and how the majority of fatherless fathers use it in an unhealthy unfashionable way that could hurt.
Barry Edgemon:
Damage you more and your family.
Barry Edgemon:
Here's the first one,
Barry Edgemon:
radical self-reliance and adaptability.
Barry Edgemon:
Mm-hmm.
Barry Edgemon:
So, so for me.
Barry Edgemon:
In my mind, previously I was faster, quicker, and better alone.
Barry Edgemon:
I was the lone wolf.
Barry Edgemon:
Right.
Barry Edgemon:
As I've come to understand, there is no such thing as lone wolves.
Barry Edgemon:
Mm. In, in the kingdom and in fatherhood.
Barry Edgemon:
Mm-hmm.
Barry Edgemon:
Talk to us about radical self-reliance and adaptability in the pro and the con format.
Kelly Rhodes:
Uh, one of the things that my mentor, Dwayne Dekin says all the time is that for every mile of road, there's two miles a ditch.
Kelly Rhodes:
Come on.
Kelly Rhodes:
You know, the idea that, uh, you know about self-reliance and adaptability, there's a very healthy aspect of that.
Kelly Rhodes:
You know, we, we need to have that, uh, in many areas of our life.
Kelly Rhodes:
Um, however, there's, two ditches there are.
Kelly Rhodes:
One is, is that weakness of I can't do anything on my own.
Kelly Rhodes:
I just don't have the power and I have the confidence, I have that, whatever.
Kelly Rhodes:
And so we're stuck in a place where, um.
Kelly Rhodes:
Not only do we have to rely on everybody else, we don't think we can rely on ourself at all.
Kelly Rhodes:
Wow.
Kelly Rhodes:
And that's a dangerous place to be.
Kelly Rhodes:
Yes, and And that's something that needs to be overcome by a lot of us.
Kelly Rhodes:
In fact, that's a very immature way of seeing yourself.
Kelly Rhodes:
'cause God has given you gifts, tools, and abilities.
Kelly Rhodes:
So that you can accomplish the things that he needs to, to accomplish on your own.
Kelly Rhodes:
However, the other side of that ditch is that thing that says, I don't need anybody else.
Kelly Rhodes:
And that's true until you do.
Kelly Rhodes:
The reality is, is that, is that one of us is not better than all of us.
Kelly Rhodes:
Hmm.
Kelly Rhodes:
And you may be very adept in solving all kinds of problems.
Kelly Rhodes:
You eventually find a problem that you can't solve, and the reality is, is that unless you're able to bring in somebody else, make that connection, make, make that, build that relationship.
Kelly Rhodes:
You're gonna be stuck at your limits and you'll never be able to surpass what you can do on your own.
Kelly Rhodes:
And honestly, your family probably needs you to be able to surpass that.
Kelly Rhodes:
We are created to live in community, which means we're not meant to be by our by ourself all the time.
Kelly Rhodes:
And what's what's more, uh, when you really think about it, particularly if you wanna raise kids, you wanna raise sons if you model for them the lone wolf.
Barry Edgemon:
Hmm.
Kelly Rhodes:
What's gonna happen whenever they grow up?
Barry Edgemon:
Hmm.
Kelly Rhodes:
Are they gonna be on their own away from you?
Kelly Rhodes:
Hmm
Barry Edgemon:
hmm.
Kelly Rhodes:
Are you, are you teaching them?
Barry Edgemon:
Mm-hmm.
Kelly Rhodes:
How to have disconnection with you by maintaining dis disconnection from others.
Kelly Rhodes:
Hmm.
Kelly Rhodes:
And so we have to model that, that healthy form of self-reliance, that has confidence that it can do the things that are necessary.
Kelly Rhodes:
But has humility that says I can bring others in for my greater good and not fall on either side of that ditch.
Barry Edgemon:
Hmm.
Barry Edgemon:
You said a lot there that, um, so I'm, you said a lot that I'm like, I got some peach bubbles going off all over my brain, but one of them is what, isn't this the greatest?
Barry Edgemon:
Um.
Barry Edgemon:
Petri dish for pride and arrogance to sneak in or fear of intimacy and fear of failure.
Barry Edgemon:
Mm. I find myself equally centered between those two extremes.
Barry Edgemon:
Yeah, and I don't, I'm not sure how to escape that, that gambit.
Barry Edgemon:
How do you do it?
Kelly Rhodes:
Personally,
Barry Edgemon:
personally,
Kelly Rhodes:
intentionally, the only way that you overcome fear of intimacy is by, just from me.
Kelly Rhodes:
It's, it's stepping through that wall.
Kelly Rhodes:
I, I can either choose to have a fear of intimacy or I can try to find my comfort in isolation.
Kelly Rhodes:
And I'm gonna, I'm gonna go up against God's creative design by choosing isolation because we were not meant to be alone.
Kelly Rhodes:
It's one of the first things that God said, right?
Kelly Rhodes:
It's like
Barry Edgemon:
mm-hmm.
Kelly Rhodes:
Man was not meant to be alone.
Kelly Rhodes:
Mm-hmm.
Kelly Rhodes:
So he creates a spouse for us.
Barry Edgemon:
Mm-hmm.
Barry Edgemon:
You know,
Kelly Rhodes:
we look at it that way.
Kelly Rhodes:
We're, we don't wanna fight our design.
Kelly Rhodes:
Um, and so we, we need to, you know, kind of break down those walls of, of.
Kelly Rhodes:
Fear that keep us from the intimacy that God has created us for.
Kelly Rhodes:
And that's with, you know, our spouses.
Kelly Rhodes:
That's also our relationships with other men, our brothers, our fathers, and if there are other men in our life that we may be biologically connected to, but they can't have that connection that we need.
Kelly Rhodes:
Cool.
Kelly Rhodes:
Let's find that connection in the church.
Barry Edgemon:
So you've hit on a nerve there.
Barry Edgemon:
One of the things that I see the biggest mistake with some of the guys that have started on the journey with father seekers, and it is, um, just because we're together mm-hmm.
Barry Edgemon:
Doesn't mean we're healthy.
Barry Edgemon:
Right?
Barry Edgemon:
So what are the things that we have to do?
Barry Edgemon:
We've talked about spiritual fathers, we've talked about spiritual mentors, we've talked about spiritual brothers.
Barry Edgemon:
Mm-hmm.
Barry Edgemon:
Um, we've talked about having other men in your life more than just one or two, maybe a circle of three or four, five guys who bring different per perspective and and value to the conversation.
Barry Edgemon:
Right.
Barry Edgemon:
Um.
Barry Edgemon:
So, so how do I, how do I, how do I define or measure whether or not the people I'm including in my life are healthy or unhealthy?
Barry Edgemon:
What's the marker for that?
Kelly Rhodes:
Let's, let's talk about health real quick.
Kelly Rhodes:
Health itself is a moving target.
Barry Edgemon:
Hmm.
Kelly Rhodes:
You know, um, we're always gonna be chasing some level, some measure of health, and the way we achieve it and define it and pursue it is gonna change over time.
Kelly Rhodes:
If you think about it, I'm 47 mm. Um.
Kelly Rhodes:
I'm looking at health differently now than at 17 and at 27 and 37, and I'm sure when I'm 57 I'll have a different perspective as well.
Kelly Rhodes:
There's gonna be different markers that we look to to say, this is, this is healthy, or this is not.
Kelly Rhodes:
Not everything is as simple as BMI.
Kelly Rhodes:
And did you get, you know, eight hours of sleep or drink, you know, a gallon of water today?
Kelly Rhodes:
Mm-hmm.
Kelly Rhodes:
Mm-hmm.
Kelly Rhodes:
Mm-hmm.
Kelly Rhodes:
And so, so we need to think about health being a, a continuum also in that when we look at the circle of friends that we have, when we look at what's healthy, I think it's important for us to, um, to acknowledge that it's okay for us to have friends who are healthier than we are.
Kelly Rhodes:
'cause they can help pick us up.
Kelly Rhodes:
But I also think there's an important component for us and we need to look for people who we can pour pull up as well.
Kelly Rhodes:
Not everybody that's in our circle should be people who serve us.
Barry Edgemon:
Mm-hmm.
Kelly Rhodes:
There need to be people that we are serving as well.
Kelly Rhodes:
Mm-hmm.
Kelly Rhodes:
But there needs to be a balance.
Kelly Rhodes:
Mm-hmm.
Kelly Rhodes:
So that we can, can be burned out.
Kelly Rhodes:
We need people who are pouring into us.
Kelly Rhodes:
We need to be pouring into other people.
Kelly Rhodes:
Mm-hmm.
Kelly Rhodes:
What that does is it helps us take the focus off ourself.
Barry Edgemon:
So I've heard it said that you need a circle of guys, four to five guys.
Barry Edgemon:
Yeah.
Barry Edgemon:
Uh, and if you are the smartest guy or the fastest in the circle, you've outgrown that circle.
Barry Edgemon:
Mm-hmm.
Barry Edgemon:
Because you need to be in a healthy situation.
Barry Edgemon:
You need to be somewhere in the middle.
Barry Edgemon:
Yeah.
Barry Edgemon:
Um.
Barry Edgemon:
If you're, if you're, if you're all at a similar place and moving together, that's one thing.
Barry Edgemon:
But if you're in a group that there's a hierarchy, unless it's like a spiritual father kind of a thing where he's, he's, he's mentoring three or or four young, young dads, young sons.
Barry Edgemon:
It doesn't seem like it would be healthy if, because then it would turn into a pecking order and experience, uh, crowns making king.
Barry Edgemon:
Is that accurate or, or not?
Kelly Rhodes:
I, I think it, I think it can be, I immediately think of, um, the story of Henry.
Kelly Rhodes:
Now I'm familiar with Henry now, and I certainly don't subscribe to everything he taught or believe, but mm-hmm.
Kelly Rhodes:
It's interesting that, uh, he was a Catholic priest, um, who was a teacher at Harvard.
Kelly Rhodes:
He's a teacher at Yale.
Kelly Rhodes:
He's doing all these, he's world renowned speaker and he's written these books and do you know what the, one of the last assignments that they gave him was?
Kelly Rhodes:
Hmm.
Kelly Rhodes:
He was sent to La la which is a, a commune for people who struggle with mental disability.
Barry Edgemon:
Hmm.
Kelly Rhodes:
And so here's this vaunted academic, and he's called to spend the rest of his career with people who, you know, have the IQ of a child.
Kelly Rhodes:
Hmm.
Kelly Rhodes:
Or severe mental handicap or disability.
Kelly Rhodes:
Hmm.
Kelly Rhodes:
From that experience and the humbling that he went through himself to serve that community, I think now, and produced some of his greatest works.
Barry Edgemon:
Oh, wow.
Kelly Rhodes:
And so I think.
Kelly Rhodes:
I think we need to, to be careful as we craft our circle, for
Barry Edgemon:
sure.
Barry Edgemon:
Mm-hmm.
Kelly Rhodes:
But we also need to say, okay, God, if this is the people that you have me surrounded with, and if this is a purpose that you have called me to pursue, how do I need to humble myself to be the man that you've called me to be in this season and this scenario with these people?
Barry Edgemon:
Here's the next one.
Barry Edgemon:
This is a.
Barry Edgemon:
This is a touchy one because it, it, it will, this, this would, this is one of the ones that I ran across in research that has high triggering power.
Barry Edgemon:
Let's go.
Barry Edgemon:
Yep.
Barry Edgemon:
Deep empathy and protective instincts.
Barry Edgemon:
Framed with this question, how has your experience of growing up without a father influenced the way you respond to your children's emotional needs or vulnerabilities?
Barry Edgemon:
Oh wow.
Barry Edgemon:
Yeah.
Barry Edgemon:
Yeah.
Barry Edgemon:
It's like for me.
Barry Edgemon:
My grandfather was a, he was the guy who was the key influencer in my life for most of my life.
Barry Edgemon:
And, uh, man of character, man of few words.
Barry Edgemon:
Mm-hmm.
Barry Edgemon:
Man of quiet action.
Barry Edgemon:
Uh, he reminded me a lot if I had to movie, movie character him, he would remind me of.
Barry Edgemon:
John Wayne and the Quiet Man.
Barry Edgemon:
Okay.
Barry Edgemon:
One of my favorite movies in all, all history of the world.
Barry Edgemon:
He was, um, he was, he was, he was one of those guys, but he was a gentleman and a, a soft guy.
Barry Edgemon:
But I've heard stories from guys who.
Barry Edgemon:
And culture teaches us this, uh, even southern culture where I'm from, you are, yeah.
Barry Edgemon:
Uh, men don't cry.
Barry Edgemon:
Buckle up, hide your motions, that kind of thing.
Barry Edgemon:
So with that in mind, not knowing all the, all the places where people listen, right?
Barry Edgemon:
How do we, how do we really, he, we weren't groomed.
Barry Edgemon:
We becoming a, a father starts at birth like we.
Barry Edgemon:
We start out as a son, but we're observing a father, right?
Barry Edgemon:
If you don't have a father to observe, then you don't know how.
Barry Edgemon:
You didn't get to be on stage and watch him deal with you so that you know how to deal with yours, right?
Barry Edgemon:
So how does a guy, deep empathy, protective instincts, and especially helicopter parenting, be a man, man up, or.
Barry Edgemon:
Parent of Parentification Is that, that I, parentification.
Barry Edgemon:
Parentification.
Kelly Rhodes:
Yeah.
Kelly Rhodes:
So there's a lot going on there.
Kelly Rhodes:
Yep.
Kelly Rhodes:
But I think one way to, to really, um, to, to, to make it practical is that we need to learn how to respond rather than react,
Barry Edgemon:
respond.
Kelly Rhodes:
And by respond, like response is something that you, that you put a little bit of thought into.
Kelly Rhodes:
Now you don't always have a week to sit down and figure out what you're gonna do in a situation, but to learn how to respond rather than react.
Kelly Rhodes:
A lot of times our reaction is destructive.
Kelly Rhodes:
Mm. It's damaging 'cause we haven't put any thought to it at all.
Kelly Rhodes:
Um, that might be, you know, a physical reaction, like a flinch or something like that.
Kelly Rhodes:
Um.
Kelly Rhodes:
If you think about it, like, I have flinched before and hit people and knocked drinks outta their hands and things like that and ruined an outfit or something like that, that, that's happened to me.
Kelly Rhodes:
I'm sometimes
Barry Edgemon:
clumsy.
Barry Edgemon:
Mm-hmm.
Kelly Rhodes:
A lot of times we react to something without thought and we will say things, we will do things we'll, make decisions that had we chosen to take a little bit more time to give a a response, we would've made a different choice.
Kelly Rhodes:
We would've said different words.
Kelly Rhodes:
We would've had a different tone.
Kelly Rhodes:
And so it's learning how to control ourselves so that we're not driven by an immediate reaction.
Kelly Rhodes:
But, but to kind of slow down a little bit, most of our decisions are made in haste.
Kelly Rhodes:
Uh, our pastor, uh, around here, Ethan Jones, our worship pastors, fond of saying haste makes waste.
Kelly Rhodes:
And so whenever we react too quickly without really understanding the problem, therefore not understanding our solution, we'll multiply the mistakes.
Kelly Rhodes:
So I we're, we're crockpots not microwaves.
Barry Edgemon:
Mm-hmm.
Barry Edgemon:
It's
Kelly Rhodes:
learning how to slow down a little bit and not be in such a rush.
Kelly Rhodes:
Um, there's a lot of, a lot of problems are, are caused by not understanding the problem we're trying to resolve.
Barry Edgemon:
So impulsive familial leadership is catastrophic.
Kelly Rhodes:
Absolutely.
Barry Edgemon:
Slash forward slash when it's emotionally driven.
Kelly Rhodes:
Yeah.
Barry Edgemon:
Anger, frustration, inadequacy in parenting.
Barry Edgemon:
Some of my, my friends who are in military or police or former police all have this, this saying that, um, I've adopted.
Barry Edgemon:
I try to, even in conversation, I try to apply the five second rule just to pause five seconds.
Barry Edgemon:
That's a long time.
Barry Edgemon:
Yeah.
Barry Edgemon:
In a conversation.
Barry Edgemon:
Yeah.
Barry Edgemon:
Um, but their, their thing is slow is smooth.
Barry Edgemon:
Mm-hmm.
Barry Edgemon:
Smooth is fast.
Barry Edgemon:
Yeah.
Barry Edgemon:
And there's, there's a repetitiveness with that, that if, if we can ingrain that inside our psyche.
Barry Edgemon:
Create a, I don't know if you like, a, a preemptive entryway to neural pathways.
Barry Edgemon:
Yeah.
Barry Edgemon:
Like slow down, like, let's pause on this.
Barry Edgemon:
'cause you're talking to a, a 3-year-old who spilled the milk and you told 'em not to seven times, but they did it anyway.
Barry Edgemon:
Right?
Barry Edgemon:
It's slow down.
Barry Edgemon:
Mm-hmm.
Barry Edgemon:
Um, why?
Barry Edgemon:
Why is it that we, okay, here's me, so my worst thing with my kids mm-hmm.
Barry Edgemon:
Is I, I parented out of ignorance, lack of knowledge combined with the most evil of cocktails.
Barry Edgemon:
Fear of the unknown.
Barry Edgemon:
Right.
Barry Edgemon:
And fear for them.
Barry Edgemon:
Right.
Barry Edgemon:
And fear for failure of self and them.
Barry Edgemon:
Right.
Barry Edgemon:
If a guy's in that quandary, how does he break out of that looping effect?
Barry Edgemon:
That it's a close loop that, that, that has no breaks.
Barry Edgemon:
So there's an exit.
Barry Edgemon:
How do you break out of that?
Kelly Rhodes:
Again, it's intentionally, uh, whenever you understand, finally come to the place where you understand that fear is what's driving you.
Kelly Rhodes:
Or if it's ignorance, that's what's driving you.
Kelly Rhodes:
You have to confront what you don't know, and you have to confront what that fear is to really understand what it is.
Kelly Rhodes:
I'm afraid I'm gonna fail.
Kelly Rhodes:
This isn't news to anybody, you're going to fail, you know?
Kelly Rhodes:
And, and that if we have to allow failure.
Kelly Rhodes:
I, I love that you brought up Maxwell earlier in one of the earlier podcasts we did, you know, that failing forward idea, the, the, the more we're able to learn from failure.
Kelly Rhodes:
The less failure we're gonna deal with.
Barry Edgemon:
Mm-hmm.
Kelly Rhodes:
You know, failure is a wonderful teacher, so don't be afraid of it, but, but do be willing to admit it.
Kelly Rhodes:
Do be willing to be a great student of it.
Kelly Rhodes:
Do be willing to, uh, change and adapt because of what you've learned through your failure
Barry Edgemon:
steward the lessons of your failure.
Barry Edgemon:
Yes,
Kelly Rhodes:
very much so.
Barry Edgemon:
Um, I think that.
Barry Edgemon:
As I'm sitting here recalling our previous conversations, there's a lot tied to this shame, fear, rejection, inadequacy, identity, inferiority in insignificance, intimidation like this whole, like this one right here.
Barry Edgemon:
Um, when we, we, we don't, we have an unhealthy deep empathy.
Barry Edgemon:
Yeah.
Barry Edgemon:
And protective instincts or we have healthy, or we have a heman woman hater club kind of grow up and be a man, boy or Right.
Barry Edgemon:
That kind of thing.
Barry Edgemon:
Wow.
Barry Edgemon:
Here's another one third element of this.
Barry Edgemon:
This whole idea of the resilience, the, the, the resilience of fatherless father's relentless commitment to growth in identity formation.
Kelly Rhodes:
Oh yeah.
Barry Edgemon:
Re, uh, and, and relentless meaning, if it's relentless, I don't feel like it's healthy, but if it's, you keep using the word intentional.
Barry Edgemon:
Intentional sounds more healthy to me than relentless.
Barry Edgemon:
Relentless seems unending and a slave master of demand.
Kelly Rhodes:
I think that relentless in the way you're using that word in, in term here.
Kelly Rhodes:
Carries with a a, a built in dissatisfaction.
Barry Edgemon:
Oh, that's so good.
Kelly Rhodes:
And we'll just take it back to the garden.
Kelly Rhodes:
Why did God rest?
Kelly Rhodes:
Because he was tired.
Kelly Rhodes:
God's limitless.
Kelly Rhodes:
He can't get, get tired.
Kelly Rhodes:
He rested 'cause he was satisfied with what he made.
Kelly Rhodes:
We have to come to this place of satisfaction.
Kelly Rhodes:
And what I've found, particularly as I think about my identity in Christ and my relationship with God, is that I can find a place of satisfaction that also carries with it the ability to allow God to build hunger within me.
Kelly Rhodes:
So I am satisfied and with who I am in Christ and what God's called me to.
Kelly Rhodes:
But because of my intimacy with him, he builds a hunger inside of me that helps me long for more without feeling inadequate.
Barry Edgemon:
So relentlessness is
Barry Edgemon:
without sounding very Pentecostal and charismatic, which is.
Barry Edgemon:
Don't, that's another podcast.
Barry Edgemon:
Don't, don't, don't text me on this.
Barry Edgemon:
Just, just don't, uh, the relentless words thrown around a lot.
Barry Edgemon:
Yeah.
Barry Edgemon:
And it just doesn't seem, it seems very flesh driven to me.
Barry Edgemon:
But when you're talking about a hunger for what's good and true and pure, that supersedes the relentless piece.
Barry Edgemon:
Relentless is something I do.
Barry Edgemon:
Hunger is something that I. Like I have to develop that in me.
Barry Edgemon:
Oh, okay.
Barry Edgemon:
Here's another one.
Kelly Rhodes:
Well, before we go there.
Kelly Rhodes:
Yeah.
Kelly Rhodes:
You know, what is that?
Kelly Rhodes:
What is that?
Kelly Rhodes:
That command that we're told in Psalm, Psalm 46.
Kelly Rhodes:
Cease striving and know that I am God.
Kelly Rhodes:
Ooh.
Kelly Rhodes:
Be still and know that I'm God.
Kelly Rhodes:
It, it's coming to this place of understanding our identity in him.
Kelly Rhodes:
Once we begin to understand our identity in him and our relationship with him, then he drives us.
Kelly Rhodes:
So delight yourself in the Lord and he will give you the desires of your heart.
Kelly Rhodes:
That's good.
Kelly Rhodes:
He, he drives us.
Kelly Rhodes:
That's good.
Kelly Rhodes:
The things that are good, true, and pure, that he has planned for us.
Kelly Rhodes:
That he's designed for us.
Barry Edgemon:
So now you're talking about fatherhood, being a father, fatherhood of God,
Barry Edgemon:
being a healing.
Barry Edgemon:
Factor in a fatherless heart.
Kelly Rhodes:
Absolutely.
Kelly Rhodes:
Like in a forming factor.
Barry Edgemon:
A forming, what, what does that mean?
Kelly Rhodes:
It's, it's, it's a healing.
Kelly Rhodes:
The things that have been hurt and a forming for the things that he is purposed for.
Kelly Rhodes:
Okay.
Barry Edgemon:
So that opens up a deep pool because formation, I'm going to call it pathway.
Barry Edgemon:
Some would call it.
Barry Edgemon:
Endearing, some would call it how do we, how do we get there from here?
Barry Edgemon:
Yeah.
Barry Edgemon:
Like how do I, how do I, how do I, how do I, here's the, here's the greatest struggle I think with fatherless guys.
Barry Edgemon:
Uh, you have a void that is significant and crucial and in spectacular, but it is the void that must be recognized and dealt with and filled.
Barry Edgemon:
With the proper, not just information, but experience and the proper interaction with God.
Barry Edgemon:
Like there is a father, hunger in every man, every woman that can only be answered by God himself.
Barry Edgemon:
That's why fathers exist, to point their family, their kids to God.
Barry Edgemon:
But you're talking about this other thing of where, where even fatherless guys could draw near to God and have.
Barry Edgemon:
Begin this formation piece of healing, like original design.
Barry Edgemon:
Like they're, they're reformatted to original design, is that what you're saying?
Kelly Rhodes:
Absolutely.
Kelly Rhodes:
Okay.
Kelly Rhodes:
Yeah.
Kelly Rhodes:
It's, it's allowing God to come in and, and be our father.
Kelly Rhodes:
Mm-hmm.
Kelly Rhodes:
The way that's so necessary.
Kelly Rhodes:
And, and if you think about it this way, this might be a little stretch here, so don't text Barry.
Kelly Rhodes:
Probably not.
Kelly Rhodes:
But, um.
Kelly Rhodes:
You know, when you read Wild at Heart by John Eldridge, hello.
Kelly Rhodes:
Great book.
Kelly Rhodes:
Great great book.
Kelly Rhodes:
Bingo.
Kelly Rhodes:
That's a classic.
Kelly Rhodes:
Every guy needs to read that book.
Kelly Rhodes:
Um, he talks about how the fact of matter is no matter how good of a father you had, no matter how good of a father you're gonna be, there's a wound.
Kelly Rhodes:
Yeah.
Kelly Rhodes:
Because we are in, we are inadequate in our humanity.
Kelly Rhodes:
Mm-hmm.
Kelly Rhodes:
We're inadequate to fulfill the role that only God the Father can fulfill.
Kelly Rhodes:
And so I, I wonder, Barry.
Kelly Rhodes:
If only those who are, can acknowledge their need for father, their fatherlessness can be formed by the father.
Barry Edgemon:
That's, uh, I've never, I've never put it, I've not been able to put it in those words, but I think.
Barry Edgemon:
I think that's why father seekers exist to try to communicate that.
Barry Edgemon:
And I don't even know that we do a good job at it, but, but
Barry Edgemon:
yeah.
Barry Edgemon:
The father, um, McGee calls it robber.
Barry Edgemon:
S McGee calls it Father Hunger and his book Father Hunger.
Barry Edgemon:
Yeah.
Barry Edgemon:
And his book, uh, the Parent Factor.
Kelly Rhodes:
Yeah.
Kelly Rhodes:
Yeah.
Barry Edgemon:
Uh.
Barry Edgemon:
You know, the gospel is really the answer to this thoughtlessness thing.
Barry Edgemon:
It's not just for sin man,
Kelly Rhodes:
a hundred percent.
Kelly Rhodes:
It's to
Barry Edgemon:
restore mankind.
Kelly Rhodes:
I think we think too narrowly about what sin is.
Kelly Rhodes:
Sometimes we think it's not, it not doing certain things and.
Kelly Rhodes:
And doing certain things, but it's all the ways in which we fall short.
Barry Edgemon:
Uh, missing the mark Harmatia.
Barry Edgemon:
Yeah.
Barry Edgemon:
Is that it?
Barry Edgemon:
Okay.
Barry Edgemon:
Here's another one.
Barry Edgemon:
This, this would, this is, might feed into what we're talking about here.
Barry Edgemon:
Uh, the ability to forge and rely on alternative support systems.
Barry Edgemon:
Here's a question
Barry Edgemon:
Okay.
Barry Edgemon:
That I'm asking the fathers that are listening.
Barry Edgemon:
To tune their ears 'cause you're gonna have a good answer on this.
Barry Edgemon:
Who have we as fatherless fathers turned to for support or guidance as a father?
Barry Edgemon:
And how have these relationships shaped our parenting journey?
Barry Edgemon:
Most of us would say stalled out.
Barry Edgemon:
Cave shadow dweller, like I'm near the light, but not in the light.
Barry Edgemon:
I'm listening.
Barry Edgemon:
I'm,
Barry Edgemon:
how do I do this in a healthy fashion and engage in the parenting journey?
Barry Edgemon:
How do I do that to forge and rely on healthy?
Barry Edgemon:
Alternative support systems?
Kelly Rhodes:
Well, if you're asking that question, you doing one of the most important things is realize that there's a need, like I need, I need help.
Kelly Rhodes:
I, I need to connect with somebody or something that can help, help me get there.
Kelly Rhodes:
Once you realize there's a need, it's just a matter of.
Kelly Rhodes:
Taking time to, to look around and finding that need.
Kelly Rhodes:
Um, and there's a lot of, you know, things out there that can help fill that void.
Kelly Rhodes:
If we need that help, I'm gonna tell you that one of the greatest places you're gonna find it is, is in the church with other Christian men.
Kelly Rhodes:
Mm. You know, and it's, it's going there and, and have an open eyes to see, you know.
Kelly Rhodes:
Who of these guys is, is really doing a good job?
Kelly Rhodes:
Fathering their children.
Barry Edgemon:
Mm-hmm.
Kelly Rhodes:
Who of these guys are men?
Kelly Rhodes:
Who other men are turning to?
Kelly Rhodes:
Mm-hmm.
Kelly Rhodes:
You know?
Kelly Rhodes:
Ooh.
Kelly Rhodes:
You open your eyes and you, you, you look at the fruit and that now everybody always says, you know, as Christians, we're not supposed to judge.
Kelly Rhodes:
Well, yeah, we are.
Kelly Rhodes:
Yeah, we are.
Kelly Rhodes:
Yeah.
Kelly Rhodes:
Particularly in this area, because when you look and you see, um, where this is being produced somewhere else, then that gives us the, hopefully the, the courage and the drive to go up and ask that question.
Barry Edgemon:
Mm.
Kelly Rhodes:
Hey man, I see, I see the way you're living.
Kelly Rhodes:
I see the way you treat your wife.
Kelly Rhodes:
See the way you treat your kids.
Kelly Rhodes:
I, I, I need to learn from you.
Kelly Rhodes:
Can, would you, would you walk with me through this?
Kelly Rhodes:
Yeah.
Kelly Rhodes:
You know, have that open discussion and when you're able to have that open discussion, be ready for the no.
Kelly Rhodes:
Hmm.
Kelly Rhodes:
In fact, if they say no, that's probably a really good person who you pick to talk to.
Kelly Rhodes:
Mm-hmm.
Barry Edgemon:
Yeah.
Kelly Rhodes:
Um, but also, uh, hope that they say, let me pray about that.
Kelly Rhodes:
That's, that's, that's, that's the, that's another good sign.
Barry Edgemon:
That's the indicator.
Barry Edgemon:
Yeah.
Barry Edgemon:
Like, and I think about it.
Barry Edgemon:
I think, I think all those guys don't know how to pursue Yeah.
Barry Edgemon:
And persist because we take it as rejection.
Barry Edgemon:
Yeah.
Barry Edgemon:
Like, I'm so desperate for me to even come to you and ask you, it's taken me six months to get the guts up and to humble myself and to be so miserable in my lack of knowledge.
Barry Edgemon:
Yeah.
Barry Edgemon:
That I'm.
Barry Edgemon:
I am almost begging you for help.
Barry Edgemon:
Yeah.
Barry Edgemon:
And I think sometimes, depending on the case, God, God will, will make us pursue him through these other, these other avenues.
Barry Edgemon:
Absolutely.
Barry Edgemon:
Um, I, on this whole thing.
Barry Edgemon:
Of reliance, and that's how we started the untold reliance of fatherless fathers.
Barry Edgemon:
It surely can be unhealthy and matter of fact, it drives many guys to do foolishness or to die early.
Barry Edgemon:
Oh yeah.
Barry Edgemon:
Um, but there's a but, but it, on the other hand, it's a demand of of the kingdom that we rely upon each other.
Barry Edgemon:
Yeah.
Barry Edgemon:
I love Hogo.
Barry Edgemon:
What you said that God said in the garden man's not meant to to to be alone.
Barry Edgemon:
He needed a woman.
Barry Edgemon:
He needed animals, but he also needs other men.
Barry Edgemon:
Yeah, right.
Barry Edgemon:
For sure.
Barry Edgemon:
Here's one that I think that gets skewed and messed up and I feel like we are off.
Barry Edgemon:
I think this is why some guys.
Barry Edgemon:
Push faith out of the picture and just say, uh, yeah, that faith, that Bible thing is not for me.
Barry Edgemon:
Here's the fifth element.
Barry Edgemon:
Persistent optimism and faith in the face of adversity.
Barry Edgemon:
There is a healthy faith.
Barry Edgemon:
Mm-hmm.
Barry Edgemon:
And that healthy faith is inclusive of.
Barry Edgemon:
Intimate relationship with God and brothers, hopefully spiritual father, or perhaps you've renewed your relationship with your dad.
Barry Edgemon:
But here's the question.
Barry Edgemon:
When facing setbacks or doubts as a father,
Barry Edgemon:
what are the healthy beliefs and practices that I need to pursue?
Barry Edgemon:
To make my family healthy
Barry Edgemon:
because we have multiple opportunities and cases for foolishness to go on in the kingdom.
Kelly Rhodes:
Yeah.
Kelly Rhodes:
I think one of the most important things you can pursue in this avenue is authenticity.
Barry Edgemon:
Come on, I,
Kelly Rhodes:
Morris is coth and taught, and we have, well, I live in the Bible Belt.
Kelly Rhodes:
Hmm.
Kelly Rhodes:
Everybody's got a church, everybody's got a preacher.
Kelly Rhodes:
Mm-hmm.
Kelly Rhodes:
And we have some of the highest rates of spousal abuse in the country in southern Missouri.
Kelly Rhodes:
We have, uh, such a, such a strong drug problem that they call methamphetamine.
Kelly Rhodes:
Four ones, seven.
Kelly Rhodes:
That's our area code, other parts of the country.
Barry Edgemon:
That's a story.
Kelly Rhodes:
And so whenever you, whenever you look at, you know, all those things, negative things are true.
Kelly Rhodes:
And we have 85 churches in this.
Kelly Rhodes:
Good Lord.
Kelly Rhodes:
Just in this, just in this county.
Kelly Rhodes:
Whenever I, I look at the reality of what all of that points to and what that means is that there's a lot of people who have been talking the faith but not living it out at home.
Kelly Rhodes:
And so we have to be authentic with this.
Kelly Rhodes:
We, we can't.
Kelly Rhodes:
In fact, I've got, I've got a guy that, uh, he's not a client of mine.
Kelly Rhodes:
He's, he's, he attends church here occasionally and, um.
Kelly Rhodes:
The reason why he's so furious and angry with God is because he was raised by someone who said, amen.
Kelly Rhodes:
Amen.
Kelly Rhodes:
Amen.
Kelly Rhodes:
On Sunday.
Kelly Rhodes:
And then beat him like a dog on Sunday afternoon.
Barry Edgemon:
Hmm.
Kelly Rhodes:
And now it doesn't have to be that kind of extreme, it could just be that you're, that you are a Sunday Christian and you are a Monday, everything else, and you, your kids and your family sees that disparity and they think, well, what is this?
Barry Edgemon:
Pastor Shepherd, counselor, father, spiritual father, spiritual son.
Barry Edgemon:
Son.
Barry Edgemon:
What do you say to the guy that's had the horrible religious experience, Arians, that would deter him from seeking genuine, authentic?
Barry Edgemon:
Discipleship and following Christ.
Barry Edgemon:
What do you say to that guy?
Barry Edgemon:
Right now?
Kelly Rhodes:
The pain you've experienced is not the pain from the Lord.
Barry Edgemon:
Come on.
Barry Edgemon:
Yes,
Kelly Rhodes:
I'm, I'm, I'm sorry that you've.
Kelly Rhodes:
Oh, that you've been hurt in that way, but there's something within you that that is calling you to something authentic and real.
Kelly Rhodes:
And you know it because you're asking the question.
Kelly Rhodes:
Mm-hmm.
Kelly Rhodes:
There's something that God put inside of you that's drawing you to him.
Barry Edgemon:
Mm-hmm.
Kelly Rhodes:
Pascal said, there's a Gods shaped void in all of us.
Kelly Rhodes:
Come on, you Cas.
Kelly Rhodes:
I love him.
Kelly Rhodes:
You can't fill it with money, you can't fill it with with relationships.
Kelly Rhodes:
You can't fill it with achievement or accomplishment or anything like that at all.
Kelly Rhodes:
It is only.
Kelly Rhodes:
Through a powerful life changing relationship with God the Father through the Son, filled with the Holy Spirit.
Kelly Rhodes:
Mm-hmm.
Kelly Rhodes:
That, that void gets filled, and when that happens, there's nothing else like it.
Barry Edgemon:
The greatest, I feel like the greatest deception that any man could bear is to believe that his, his historical religious experience is the.
Barry Edgemon:
Is the highlight or the epitome of what God had to offer him in the future?
Kelly Rhodes:
Say that again man.
Kelly Rhodes:
That was good
Barry Edgemon:
that, that to me, I think, I think the greatest travesty and devastation for a man to experience is for his historical, experiential knowledge of past religious experience is all that God has for him for the future.
Barry Edgemon:
In fact is, in fact it is.
Barry Edgemon:
In fact, I have gone back and I went to one of the greatest schools in the nation for theological training.
Barry Edgemon:
Yeah.
Barry Edgemon:
But I've gone back and rehearsed and, and studied again, and we have to investigate and interrogate.
Barry Edgemon:
And hold onto and, uh, catch and release.
Barry Edgemon:
Catch what's good and hold it.
Barry Edgemon:
Yeah.
Barry Edgemon:
And release what's not applicable and doesn't apply because maybe it was for a time or a season, but it's skewed for this day and hour.
Barry Edgemon:
Not theology, not biblical, not biblical doctrine, but, but actual.
Barry Edgemon:
Cultural norms, cultural pieces and ideas and, and those little, those little colloquialisms that were good for the church in those days, which I think that, that this fresh new wine that God has for today and that new wine for us as fatherless fathers is, is, is, is a personal, quiet experience with him.
Barry Edgemon:
Yeah.
Barry Edgemon:
Lived out in private, but experienced publicly.
Barry Edgemon:
With, with a healthy church and other men.
Barry Edgemon:
Absolutely.
Barry Edgemon:
Hey, if, if this, if this has pierced your interest today, reach out to us@fathersecrets.org.
Barry Edgemon:
Lots of stuff to grab for, for just the click and the download.
Barry Edgemon:
Father Fuel the podcast.
Barry Edgemon:
Teach me to father, listen, engage in this.
Barry Edgemon:
You cannot do it alone.
Barry Edgemon:
Thank you again, my friend.
Kelly Rhodes:
One, one thing I wanna say just before we wrap up.
Kelly Rhodes:
Yep.
Kelly Rhodes:
The idea that we've experienced everything we've experienced in the past, really regarding our relationship with God, that, that the epitomes in the past is antithetical to the gospel.
Barry Edgemon:
Come on.
Kelly Rhodes:
Everything we read in the New Testament tells us that the best is yet to come.
Kelly Rhodes:
The best is yet to come.
Kelly Rhodes:
And if you want that.
Kelly Rhodes:
Father Seekers is a great place to start finding it.
Kelly Rhodes:
Come on, find it in your local church.
Kelly Rhodes:
You can find somebody who preaches the gospel and lives it out.
Barry Edgemon:
Yes.
Kelly Rhodes:
Is a Bible guy.
Kelly Rhodes:
Bible Bible church.
Kelly Rhodes:
Mm-hmm.
Kelly Rhodes:
And dive in because God has something more for you than what you've known before.
Barry Edgemon:
Mm. That's good.
Barry Edgemon:
That's a, that's a great way to leave to exit this little series here.
Barry Edgemon:
And if you don't have a place to go, there are places you will have to search them out.
Barry Edgemon:
But it is available.
Barry Edgemon:
This is Barry with Father Stickers and Pastor Kelly Rhodes with Podcast.
