This episode delves into the intricate dynamics of transitioning from independent artist management to operating within the confines of a larger agency, elucidating how such a shift can diminish one’s initial passion for the craft. We explore the journey of an artist who, while initially motivated by a desire to foster and promote musical talent, found that the structural limitations of a corporate environment stifled creativity and personal connection. The discussion further emphasizes the paramount importance of understanding the business aspects of the music industry, positing that knowledge in this realm is essential for artists to safeguard their interests and navigate the complexities of their careers. We advocate for musicians to cultivate their unique identities, rather than merely being perceived through the lens of their collaborations with established artists. This episode serves as a compelling reminder that while technical skills are crucial, the necessity of strategic self-promotion and market understanding cannot be overstated in the pursuit of artistic success.

Takeaways:

• The transition from managing artists independently to working within a larger agency can significantly alter one's passion for the music industry.
• A profound understanding of the business side of music is essential for musicians to avoid exploitation and foster their careers effectively.
• Emerging musicians should prioritize developing their unique identity rather than solely being recognized through associations with established artists.
• It is imperative for artists to cultivate their own following and market presence before seeking managerial assistance to ensure sustainable growth.
• Learning how to strategically promote oneself is crucial; merely releasing music is insufficient without a comprehensive marketing approach.
• Incorporating personal creativity into business practices can lead to fulfilling careers that resonate with one's true artistic identity.

Nice.

So there's a.

So you mentioned.

Actually something I wanted to talk a little bit about because you had mentioned managing artists earlier on, and I know you got up with the agency, and probably, I have a feeling just the switch from doing this on your own to having to work under, like, the structure of a bigger company in the industry probably took that love away.

I would imagine.

I've seen it in other.

In other cases as well.

But what was it like for you at first?

Like, what made you initially want to even get into the management artist spot?

I would say, like, I think it was at the time, whenever the group that I was in, when it comes to, like, the group that I was in college, that was kind of like my spot.

Like, we already had a producer in the group.

We had a.

He had a guy who was like, you know, kind of vocalist, and we had a guy who was the mixing engineer.

And I was like, oh, maybe I'm the business guy, you know, And I kind of liked it, too, because it was cool to, like, you know, book things for artists and kind of, you know, create this, you know, this public vision, like, look for artists and stuff like that and kind of help them push their career.

And that was like.

And that was the kind of the encouragement behind it, because I started.

When I started getting the business classes, it was just like, oh, man, this is like.

This is super cool.

Like, you know, this is actually pretty.

Pretty easy.

Like, oh, these are mechanical royalties.

This is.

This is how you do, you know, set up, be like a beginner publicist, you know, all this kind of stuff.

Yeah.

I was like, oh, okay.

And then I think school was like, oh, man, this could be cool.

And then when I went to the real thing, I was like, oh, this is serious.

Yeah.

Like, the fact, like, a couple of artists that I work with at the company, I was there for, like, a year.

I never even met the artist.

Oh, wow.

Yeah.

Like, it was like.

And I was just like, no touch.

I was like, whoa, this is like something.

I was like, what?

Like, you know.

And so I was just like, man, it's not even like, a personal connection there.

And I was just like.

I just like.

And I.

I don't know.

I.

I kind of like, I've always, you know, had the hunger for music, and I thought, like, I could be very creative with doing business, which I think people can be.

But it's just.

It's just like, that would have to be your.

At the forefront, you know what I'm saying?

That would have to be, like, the Business side would have to be the forefront.

You're being creative with that.

But for me, and really inside of me, it was like the music was at the forefront instead of the business side.

And so that is what caused me to, you know, shift and go to like just being creative instead of staying in the management managing element.

Right.

For sure.

I, I don't know too much about guitars, but I usually see bass in like the traditional four string or like you had mentioned the six string.

However, in most of your videos, maybe I'm blind.

It looks like you're using a five string bass.

Is that true?

And why did you pick a five string bass?

Honestly, I started off on a four string and I think everybody should start off on a four string.

Because it's honestly like the best, the easiest way to like kind of understand everything.

Right.

But the reason why I did went to a five string because I did start, I did have a six string, but it was just like the tone.

I'd never used that high string.

And like I started realizing when I started playing with bands and getting into the professional scene that like I don't want to be on top of the guitar player.

Because if I'm on that like high C string, it's like, it's just right there at the guitar player area.

And I was in like.

So it was just, it wasn't a thing.

So the, the reason why I did five strings set up four is because I started playing in R B funk, you know, gospel environments.

And I was just like, man, this low B string is very useful, you know, like if I'm playing because in gospel you're playing like flats a lot of times.

And you could play like a low E flat or D flat or even like a low, you know, on there.

And so but like, if you don't have that, like, it's like you're playing kind of high.

You know what I'm saying?

Yeah.

Plus it's a convenient thumb rest and then you have a regular four string.

He's always got these alternative uses for things, man.

No, because I know what you're saying.

Like if somebody'd be like, hey, can you just play bass like in some sort of jam?

And I don't know what to do with that low string.

I just put my thumb on it and then the other four and pretend that everything's okay.

I mean, that's a good point.

That is hilarious.

Would you ever go back into the business side as far as it relates to other artists again, management or anything else?

Well, you know, it's actually kind of played into my favor being in the music industry because now I know the business side, a lot of musicians, and I would definitely suggest anybody who's a musician learn the business side of music because you, you won't be taken advantage of as, you know, like, because I think when you, when it's just.

Because for most musicians it's all about the music.

The music, the music, you know.

Yeah, I just need to be good.

I just need to be the most killing, you know, musician out there.

But the thing is, is that if you don't have like the knowledge of the business, it's going to be hard for you to grow in the business.

You know what I'm saying?

And so like, and so like if.

And that's the reason why, like, I feel like it's helped me and even with.

Because I produce a lot more now.

And so like when it comes to talking to artists and these, like, because a lot of artists I work with are like just up and comers and stuff like that.

And so like, I'm like, I have now have a mindset of like, hey, this is what you need to do to promote yourself.

You know, even though I'm not managing them, I can give them advice and like, hey, you know, this is what can really, you know, help you, you grow.

And not just like.

Because a lot of people just think, oh, I'm just gonna put out a song and if it's good, then it'll sell people.

Which, I mean, there's a little bit to that.

I mean, like.

But I, I definitely think that, that it's, it's, it goes hand in hand with a strategy, you know what I'm saying?

It's like there's a reason why labels, like, why whenever somebody releases a song with labels, it blows up quicker than if it was just somebody who just released a song to their friends.

You know what I'm saying?

Right, right.

So anyways, that's, that's how, that's.

I honestly.

And that's how I use my management now.

Like the management knowledge now as far as like, you know, when it comes.

To being creative and everything that makes sense for sure.

What, what, what advice would you give to somebody coming up behind you as far as just a musician?

A couple of things that they should consider strongly as far as like, just how they get their own music out and who to trust and how to navigate the space.

You know, there is a.

When it comes to like, I have, I kind of have like two mindsets of like, I have One that's for the musician and one that's for, like, the artists now for.

For the musician, this is something like.

This is kind of like something I've, like, had in my mind for a long time.

But, like, we are.

Our identity a lot of times is through other people, you know, like, and.

And as a young person, I didn't really realize what that meant is, like, because I have so many friends, play with all these big artists, all these things.

But what's so funny is that, like, when you think about them as musician, you don't.

You don't think about, like, you know, James Jamerson is just, like, sometimes you don't think about him as just James Jamerson.

He was the.

He was the guy on.

Right.

You know, what's, you know, Marvin Day, what's going on?

That's his.

His identity was by the artist was, like, kind of taken and shown through the artist rather than just himself.

Totally.

And so, like, what I feel like for young musicians now is that, like, try to find your own thing, you know?

Like, that's part of the reason why I wanted to, you know, do YouTube and kind of, like, do my own thing.

Because at the end of my life, end of my career, I don't want people to just know me as, like, oh, he's the guy that played with this artist.

And this artist.

Right.

Or this person, you know, whatever I want to have.

I definitely want to do that.

Play with big artists and different things like that.

But at the end of the day, I want people to remember me for me and not for somebody else, you know?

Yeah.

That makes perfect sense.

It does seem like a way.

It's.

It really feels weird.

Yeah.

When somebody lists or.

Or talks about a musician or an engineer or anybody like that, and instead of talking about what they do, they just list names of who they've worked with.

Where does that end?

Then you go to that person, and who do they work with?

How do you communicate someone's abilities without just name dropping?

Well, and that.

And that's.

Honestly, literally, that's the whole point, because I'm just like, there's a guy I did a session with, like, early last year before the Pandemic hit.

And, like, he was like.

He said, yeah, I've been playing with this artist, you know, for 20 years.

And he.

And he's like, in his, like, late 50s, and he's still gigging out.

And I was like, do you, you know, have any, like.

And he doesn't know what to do.

He's like, he doesn't want to, you know, he's still playing with that artist and he doesn't really want to go on the road anymore.

But that's his identity now.

Right.

And it's legs are in that basket.

Yeah, yeah.

And I was.

And I was just like, man, for musicians, I feel like one huge piece of advice is like, find what it is.

Like, and now with technology right now, it's easy to do this, but find what it is that you.

Who you are.

You know, if it's.

If it's on YouTube, if it's on any type of social media, if it's, you know, what.

Whatever it is, like, find.

Find that for yourself rather than, you know, finding that through other people.

Because that.

Because in the end of your life, you don't want to be known as that person that's just played with a whole bunch of people.

Their credits is the.

The only list is not.

And not the person.

Yeah, that's great advice.

But when it comes to the artist side of things, when it comes to getting music out there, a lot of people were just like, oh, man, I need a manager to get me to this next level.

I need a.

I need like, you know, publicist.

All these other people.

Yeah, publicists and all this.

Other people, which those do help.

But the first thing you have to think about is that, like, you want to get yourself to a point at yourself.

It's like it's this.

You're creating a business for yourself, you know.

Yeah, because like, it's just like a way a business starts is nobody wants to invest in a business that they don't know is going to.

They have a market or they don't have, like, you know, people to, you know, that, like, their stuff.

And so, like, when it comes to being an artist, you have to think about that in that sense because it's like, all right, I'm going to do this until I start getting a following.

I have a friend or multiple friends that like, they didn't.

They didn't have managers and they just.

They just like started releasing their stuff and trying to find their market and just thinking about it, just like a business.

And then I think they had like maybe like 50,000 monthly listeners on Spotify or something like that.

They got on all on their own.

Then a manager reached out to him.

It was like, hey, I would love to, you know, work with you.

And then that's when you get to that point when you're like, you know, pushing yourself as far as you possibly can and find your market on your own.

And you develop that, you know that audience, then somebody like a manager could come in and have something to manage.

You know what I'm saying?

Exactly.

Because like because the thing is if you don't have anything to manage, why do you why do you need a manager, you know what I'm saying?

And so finding and also finding like when it comes to releasing music, finding the market that you're working, you know, that you're, you know trying to release too because like sometimes it's like like if you're, if you're trying to do R and B but you want to do have a pop swing, you need to know what people listeners to R and B like like and what people who are listeners to pop like and find which what what you identify with and then, and then connect those and then you find your sound, you know what I'm saying?

Because then you're finding that niche of audience when it comes to that.