Shownotes
Join us as we dive into the fascinating world of sports broadcasting with John Kocsis Jr., the voice of the Columbia Fireflies. In this episode, we explore the rich history of sports broadcasting, from its early days in the late 19th century to the modern era of streaming and digital media. John shares his personal journey from aspiring baseball player to becoming a seasoned announcer, highlighting the challenges and triumphs along the way. We discuss the competitive landscape of broadcasting, the art of storytelling in play-by-play commentary, and the importance of preparation in delivering engaging narratives to audiences. With insights into memorable moments, catchphrases, and the future of broadcasting, this conversation is a deep dive into a career that brings the excitement of sports to life for fans everywhere.
John Kocsis is author of Play-by-Play from the Minors.
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Transcripts
Welcome to Wonderland, the podcast where I go down the rabbit hole to research things you may be curious about.
Speaker B:My name is Ami and I'll be.
Ami:Your guide on this trip to Wonderland.
Speaker B:Hi there, my wonderlings, and welcome back for another episode of welcome to Wonderland.
Speaker B:I'm really excited because today I have with me John Kossas Jr.
Speaker B:The voice of the Columbia Fireflies, author of Play by Play from the Miners, profiles of baseball broadcasters from Scranton to Yakima, and clutch bowler, if I'm saying so myself.
Speaker B:So welcome John.
John Kossas Jr.:Well, thank you for the introduction and for overestimating my bowling skills to everyone watching.
Ami:So what was I wondering about this week that John could provide us some insight into?
John Kossas Jr.:I wonder, I wonder, I wonder, I wonder, I wonder, I wonder, I wonder.
Speaker B:I wonder, I wonder.
Ami:John is the play by play announcer for the Columbia Fireflies and we're going to spend some time venturing down the rabbit hole this week with him as we learn more about sports broadcasting.
Ami:Before we get in too deep, let's hear a little more about our guest.
John Kossas Jr.:Yeah, so I grew up in Cleveland, Ohio in the late 90s and I was left handed.
John Kossas Jr.:So I want to be Jim Tomey for the longest time and I think it was about fourth or fifth grade when I realized I wasn't going to hit 600 home runs in Major league baseball.
John Kossas Jr.:And that journey led me to where we are today, just talking about baseball for people to listen to and telling the stories of all the people on the field.
Speaker B:Excellent.
Speaker B:And we'll actually come back to that because one of the questions is a little bit about that.
Speaker B:So in welcome to Wonderland, I don't know if you ever listened to it, but what we do is I kind of take a topic, I explore things that people may wonder about it and then put it out into the world and these interview type ones.
Speaker B:I've done it a couple of different ways, but likely what I'll do is I will still go back and do some research on sports broadcasting and the history of sports broadcasting and all of that and splice it all together for this episode.
Ami:So to start, John and I very quickly went over some of the highlights of sports broadcasting history.
Speaker B:So a quick overview of sports broadcasting.
Speaker B: ports broadcast is likely the: Speaker B:And here are some of the other early milestones.
Speaker B:1911 was the first pre recorded sportscast in Kansas where a group recreated football plays based on Telegraph.
Speaker B:1921, the first broadcast of a sporting event, a ten round boxing match between Dundee and Johnny Ray at Pittsburgh's motor square garden.
Speaker B:1939, the first live broadcast in the United States, a college baseball game between Princeton Tigers and Columbia lions was on NBC.
Speaker B: And then in: Speaker B:Starts calling minor league baseball games for.
John Kossas Jr.:The West Virginia Power.
Speaker B:Yeah, there we go.
Speaker B:So that brings us up to history.
Speaker B:Obviously by the time you were doing it, I said early on they started out recreating telegraphs and were just basically broadcasting that over radio.
Speaker B:And now and we'll get into a little more, but it's things like webcast and streaming and all of that.
Speaker B:So it's an entirely different world now.
John Kossas Jr.:And it's kind of funny that you mentioned that too because Al Michaels, who started off at the University of Hawaii actually did those broadcast recreations when he was there quite a bit.
John Kossas Jr.:So he was going through the telegraph and, and just doing that.
John Kossas Jr.:And there are some people in minor league baseball, like Jesse Goldberg Strassler with the Lansing Lug Nuts who pay tribute to those people each year and do one rebroadcast game each year.
John Kossas Jr.:So something that is actually still idolized a little bit, still looked at a little bit.
Speaker B:I did not know that.
John Kossas Jr.:There are certainly broadcasters who, although Al Michaels has been doing it forever since Miracle on Ice, who are still active, who had to start off doing that in their career.
Speaker B:Oh, you are a plethora of knowledge.
Ami:To give a little more context to our conversation, I'm here with some additional information from the Rabbit Hole.
Ami: ng about the America's cup in: Ami:If you listened to welcome to Wonderland episode 13 on radio, then that name may sound familiar to you.
Ami:If you haven't, go give it a listen.
Ami:It is honestly one of my most favorite episodes.
Ami:I learned so much researching it so that everyone is on the same page though.
Ami:Guglielmo Marconi was, among other things, an Italian engineer and inventor who created the practical radio wave based wireless telegraph system.
Ami:His work essentially laid the foundation for the future of radio, television and all modern wireless communication systems.
Ami: otball game done in Kansas in: Ami: ,: Ami: layers and was shared to over: Ami:This was very different than sports broadcasting as we know it now, as no one involved in the recreation was at the game or watching it live.
Ami:After I mentioned this, John shared a little tidbit about other broadcasters who pay tribute to this initial way of broadcasting by doing recreations.
Ami:I went down a little rabbit hole and learned a little more about this.
Ami: ncisco Giants so well between: Ami:But perhaps the most surprising thing I found while in this rabbit hole was that prior to his time as the 40th President of the United States, Ronald Reagan worked as a sports announcer for WHO Radio in Des Moines, Iowa.
Ami:He called Chicago Cubs games Go Cubbies.
Ami:But since he was not at the game, he would recreate the action by reading off of a telegraph, which included plays transcribed from Morse code from a telegraph operator.
Ami: ,: Ami:Apparently it was the ninth inning and the two teams were tied, 00.
Ami:A batter by the name of Billy Georges faced up against pitcher Dizzy Dean and the telegraph line went dead.
Ami:To avoid losing his audience, Reagan improvised a streak of foul balls that went on for 12 minutes until the wire came back.
Ami:It turns out I could keep going on about Reagan's sports broadcasting career, but this episode isn't about him.
Ami:So out of this rabbit hole and back on topic with us after these recreations, I glossed over what is probably the first really real broadcast that is close to what you think of when you think of sports broadcasting.
Ami: The: Ami: ,: Ami:Reportedly, the ten round match wasn't actually very exciting and ended with no decision, but it marked a real change in the way sports world would be brought to the masses, with the Associated Press reporting that radio operators were treated to the action of the ring battle with all of the realism of each blow and each bit of ring strategy enacted in the instant that it occurred.
Ami:Radio brought the sounds of the conflict, the clang of the gong and the shout of the fans.
Ami:This broadcast between Dundee and Ray was just the first of many to come.
Ami:Eventually these play by play accounts would be heard on television in addition to the radio.
Ami:And now people can listen to games with a touch of their fingertips on their smartphones.
Ami:And as people have such ready access, it may make them wonder about the voices behind the calls.
Ami:Join me as we pop back into my interview with John Kosas Jr.
Ami:As he answers some listener questions and some of mine.
Speaker B:Okay, so we're going to go ahead and get into some of the questions because I know we're pressed on time.
Speaker B:Guys.
Speaker B: at Sakura park, which was the: Speaker B:It's the world's happiest place.
Speaker B:Some people say it's Disney, but it's not.
Speaker B:It's right here in Columbia, South Carolina.
Speaker B:But it's also when they do their Christmas lights.
Speaker B:So we've got to be out here on a specific time.
Speaker B:So we're going to kind of move through this.
Speaker B:So first up, I've got a question from Cheryl and I'm going to play it for you here.
Speaker B:Hopefully you can hear it.
John Kossas Jr.:I guess the general question is how did you get into sports broadcasting?
John Kossas Jr.:Is it something because you played baseball.
Speaker B:And you loved it so much and you said, I want to just keep.
John Kossas Jr.:Doing this forever and ever and.
John Kossas Jr.:Or is it something you said, no.
Speaker B:I want to be a sportscaster and I want.
John Kossas Jr.:Do you go to school for that?
John Kossas Jr.:Do you get a degree for that?
John Kossas Jr.:Hey, Cheryl.
John Kossas Jr.:Yeah, so as I said kind of at the top of the show, I wanted to be a baseball player forever.
John Kossas Jr.:I wanted to be Jim Thomey specifically.
John Kossas Jr.:It didn't, didn't work out so well.
John Kossas Jr.:But then, yeah, I absolutely went along and at first I just thought of things I was good at.
John Kossas Jr.:I was really talented at writing when I was in fifth, sixth grade.
John Kossas Jr.:Got good test scores and reading comprehension stuff.
John Kossas Jr.:So I wanted to be a sports writer.
John Kossas Jr.:Became the editor in chief of my high school newspaper and whilst I was there, I was kind of thrown into a couple of really fun opportunities.
John Kossas Jr.:One was that our state, our basketball team made the state tournament a couple years in a row and I got interviewed on ESPN about our basketball team.
John Kossas Jr.:And then I utilized that to have a couple week long internship with one of the ESPN Cleveland broadcasters.
John Kossas Jr.:So to be able to do that kind of transitioned me from written to looking at things more through a broadcast standpoint.
John Kossas Jr.:I went to Ohio University for broadcast journalism.
John Kossas Jr.:So same type of thing you'd go through to be on the news at night or to go ahead and be a PR person for a local ad agency.
John Kossas Jr.:Similar types of skill sets, similar types of learning.
John Kossas Jr.:Just like if you're a kindergarten teacher or you're a college professor, you're still going to be going through similar courses and get a similar degree.
John Kossas Jr.:So there is indeed that.
John Kossas Jr.:And I think it was my sophomore year I had an internship in college where I broadcasted for the Southern Ohio Cop Reds.
John Kossas Jr.:And while I did that internship, I traveled on the bus for the first time and I got to call 45 baseball games over the course of two months.
John Kossas Jr.:And at that point I said, okay, this is definitely what I want to do professionally.
John Kossas Jr.:If I could find a way to get paid for this, then I'll be in the clear.
John Kossas Jr.:And it took some time, but after a couple years in minor league baseball, I found the Columbia Fireflies.
John Kossas Jr.:And I've been here now for about five years.
Speaker B:Ah, and I'm glad you're here.
Speaker B:I know that you went to school for this, but is it something that is kind of a required course of action?
Speaker B:Like can someone get a job doing play by play without having had a formal education?
John Kossas Jr.:Yeah.
John Kossas Jr.:Marco Lenave with the Akron Rubber Ducks.
John Kossas Jr.:That's double A for the Cleveland Guardians.
John Kossas Jr.:I believe he has a degree in biochemistry and he's the broadcaster for the Rubber Ducks.
John Kossas Jr.:So certainly without a degree or with a degree in something else, you could.
John Kossas Jr.:But at the end of the day, it all comes down to experience in play by play from the minors.
John Kossas Jr.:You'll read some stories from Rob Ford, who's currently the Houston Astros broadcaster.
John Kossas Jr.:And he said that his first tape was sitting in the bleachers at a Yankees game because he's from the Bronx.
John Kossas Jr.:So he sent that tape out to a bunch of people to get his first internship.
John Kossas Jr.:There's no one way works for every way path to minor league baseball or to broadcasting in sports specifically.
John Kossas Jr.:But at the end of the day, getting your teeth cut and calling sports, whether that's your little brothers tee ball team or whether that's going to be going to a Yankees game is definitely going to be the best way to see if you've got the stuff.
Speaker B:Awesome.
Speaker B:So our next question here is from Bob Blair in Spartanburg, South Carolina.
Speaker B:This is Blair's question.
John Kossas Jr.:What is the biggest challenge being a sportscaster?
John Kossas Jr.:All right, Blair there.
John Kossas Jr.:It depends on how you want to look at it.
John Kossas Jr.:I mean, getting into the field is really tough.
John Kossas Jr.:Right.
John Kossas Jr.:So if you're looking at baseball specifically, there are 120 minor league teams.
John Kossas Jr.:Not every minor league team has a broadcaster.
John Kossas Jr.:And there are probably about 150 to 200 jobs circulating around Major League Baseball between, you know, the 30 radio crews, the 30 television crews and then the network crews that cover those games.
John Kossas Jr.:So you're talking about in the country, there are 350 baseball play by play jobs.
Speaker B:You've got one of them.
John Kossas Jr.:Exactly.
John Kossas Jr.: k like before they stopped in: John Kossas Jr.:So there are plenty more people than positions available for it.
John Kossas Jr.:And sometimes it's not even a skill aspect as much as is who do you know.
John Kossas Jr.:So getting in the door is certainly a very large challenge.
John Kossas Jr.:But then once you're already in the chair, the big challenge is staying prepared, right?
John Kossas Jr.:Especially in today's digital information age, everyone knows everything, right?
John Kossas Jr.:Like you can look down on your phone and you can see someone's batting average, slugging percentage, home runs, all notes on their career and stuff.
John Kossas Jr.:Whereas, you know, 30 years ago, everyone just trusted that the voice of God was going to tell you what was right.
John Kossas Jr.:So now people certainly have to be a little bit more prepared.
John Kossas Jr.:So that way you don't mess up someone's story or anything like that.
Speaker B:So is that what you do?
Speaker B:Do you have to pull out your phone and be like, this is Joe Smith, who?
Speaker B:Whatever.
Speaker B:Because we've talked about this before and you've got all of the statistics.
Speaker B:Baseball is big on statistics.
Speaker B:They'll be like, this hasn't happened since it rained on a Tuesday in April in 76 years.
Speaker B:Will it happen tonight?
Speaker B:So, like, certainly people don't just have that in their head, do they?
Speaker B:Do y'all have that in your head?
John Kossas Jr.:There are certain things that you have in your head just because you've looked at them recently or something like that.
John Kossas Jr.:But I mean, every day I put together a stat pack that's just got the gaudy numbers of each player on each team.
John Kossas Jr.:And then each day I put together game notes which are more of like the story of the Columbia Fireflies going through game by game.
John Kossas Jr.:And, you know, it takes about an hour and a half to update those each and every day.
John Kossas Jr.:And some of those are, what's your record on a Tuesday?
John Kossas Jr.:What's your record when you're wearing this jersey or that jersey or, you know, all those silly things.
John Kossas Jr.:That way you can say, man, when this team wears the blues this year, they're terrible, right?
John Kossas Jr.:They're, they're 10 and 35.
John Kossas Jr.:Well, it doesn't happen if you don't write down what happens every time they wear the blue jersey.
John Kossas Jr.:So that type of stuff just comes from, again, that preparation.
John Kossas Jr.:And for me, a lot of that comes through game notes and through statistical packs.
Speaker B:So that's where your writing background, I assume, is very helpful in being able to provide that color to all of that and not just be like, they win when they wear blue, they lose when they wear white.
John Kossas Jr.:Yeah, absolutely.
John Kossas Jr.:Being able to be a storyteller is super important because I think anyone could talk into a mic, right?
John Kossas Jr.:It's being able to make it interesting through the art of storytelling.
Speaker B:Yeah, I agree with that.
Speaker B:So to keep things moving along here, and speaking of things that, you know, knowing what to say, this next question is from Jenny in West Columbia.
John Kossas Jr.:What do you say when you have no idea what just happened?
John Kossas Jr.:That's what I want to know.
John Kossas Jr.:Like, you went to the bathroom or something.
Speaker B:Maybe they don't get bathroom breaks.
John Kossas Jr.:That's a good one.
John Kossas Jr.:Do you get bathroom breaks?
Speaker B:All right, so two part question for you on that one.
John Kossas Jr.:I guess we'll start with the second half because that's.
John Kossas Jr.:That's easier.
John Kossas Jr.:You don't get bathroom breaks.
John Kossas Jr.:So I pre record my pregame show, and I always go to the bathroom during my pregame show.
John Kossas Jr.:If you got to go in between innings, you got a minute and 15 seconds.
John Kossas Jr.:So you got to really hustle down there.
Speaker B:How far is the bathroom?
John Kossas Jr.:The bathroom for me is, I think it's like 45 steps.
John Kossas Jr.:So it's not super far, but you certainly have to hustle to get back before anyone notices.
John Kossas Jr.:And then as far as, like, what do you say when you don't know what to say?
John Kossas Jr.:Sometimes it's okay to say you don't know.
John Kossas Jr.:Right.
John Kossas Jr.:Especially if it's, you know, an injury or something like that.
John Kossas Jr.:So if you see someone all hobbled up on the ground and you're not sure exactly what happened, just wait.
John Kossas Jr.:Just say, hey, like, clearly this person's hurt or this person's injured in some type of fashion, but medical staff's looking at it.
John Kossas Jr.:We'll provide updates when we can.
John Kossas Jr.:Because the worst thing you can do is say false information.
John Kossas Jr.:Because if people aren't staying tuned in, it's obviously going to hurt you a little bit.
John Kossas Jr.:If you say false information, then they're talking to other people, whether that's their family, their friends, or maybe, you know, it is a news source that's tuning in.
John Kossas Jr.:And they go, oh, man, you know, prize prospect gets injured.
John Kossas Jr.:And you said it looks like he broke his foot.
John Kossas Jr.:Well, if it turns out that he actually hit his leg, and it's just a bruise, and it's nothing to do with his foot.
John Kossas Jr.:Now, that's incorrect information circulating.
John Kossas Jr.:So it's okay to say you don't know.
John Kossas Jr.:And then I know.
John Kossas Jr.:A lot of people have setups.
John Kossas Jr.:So, like Joe Buck's big setup that he uses is when someone throws a pitch, a lot of times he automatically says the batter's name.
John Kossas Jr.:So batter swings, and that gives him enough time to, you know, okay, I'm going to judge how far that fly ball is going to be.
John Kossas Jr.:So you're talking about the Freddy Freeman home run chase during the World Series and during the nlcs.
John Kossas Jr.:Right.
John Kossas Jr.:So the time it takes him to say Freddie Freeman, that ball is already halfway to the outfield fence.
John Kossas Jr.:So then he can really be dramatic about it and he can say he clobbered the ball or whatever.
John Kossas Jr.:It doesn't sound like you're taking time to judge it.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:So is silence an option?
John Kossas Jr.:Silence is a huge option.
John Kossas Jr.:Ben Scully was maybe one of the best at using silence.
John Kossas Jr.:After Hank Aaron hit his home run to pass Babe Ruth, he was silent for 35 seconds.
John Kossas Jr.:Let the crowd speak for itself is what you say a lot of times.
John Kossas Jr.:So in a lot of my calls, if it's like a walk off home run or something, I'll say what happened?
John Kossas Jr.:And then I'll let the guy round second or round third and let them go that 90ft.
John Kossas Jr.:So that way you can hear the crowd screaming.
John Kossas Jr.:Because the crowd screaming is going to tell people way more about excitement than me screaming by myself.
Speaker B:Okay, So I don't know which way I want to go with this.
Speaker B:I've got a couple of questions from Blair still, and she asked you in the earlier ones, and two of them kind of lead up or lend into what we're talking about here.
Speaker B:I'm going to go ahead and go with this one.
Speaker B:She wants to know about catchphrases.
John Kossas Jr.:So do you have any special catchphrases.
Ami:You like to use during your broadcasts?
John Kossas Jr.:So the one that's kind of stuck early on is I say elevate and celebrate when someone throws a high fastball past a swinging bat.
John Kossas Jr.:And that one's gotten a lot of people to say, like, oh, that's really cool.
John Kossas Jr.:Tough thing is finding something unique, right?
John Kossas Jr.:You could say, touch them all, but that's already been done.
John Kossas Jr.:You can say, my, oh, my.
John Kossas Jr.:But there's a famous call from a Seattle Mariners broadcaster about that.
John Kossas Jr.:I could say all of Tom Hamilton's phrases that I listened to growing up, but it wouldn't Be my catchphrase.
John Kossas Jr.:Right.
John Kossas Jr.:So there are certainly times I nod to other broadcasters and kind of use their phrases, but I certainly, I try to just tell the action as accurately as possible.
John Kossas Jr.:And if something sounds really good, I'll use it multiple times.
John Kossas Jr.:Then like elevate and celebrate.
John Kossas Jr.:Sometimes it becomes something that's kind of like a catchphrase.
Speaker B:So do you try them out?
Speaker B:One of them you're like, you know, you throw something out there and you're like, oh, no, that did not land well.
John Kossas Jr.:You think about it, you know, like if a guy has a good season at this level, he gets 100 strikeouts.
John Kossas Jr.: pitchers on your team, so got: John Kossas Jr.:So if you're like, man, I really like how I said that, then maybe you bring it back or you try something a little bit different.
John Kossas Jr.:And then I think it's more of like a don't force it and just develop it type thing.
Speaker B:Okay, yeah, that makes sense.
Speaker B:I feel like we're just going back and forth real quick with these questions.
Speaker B:So I'm sorry, listeners for that, but we're gonna go ahead and go with Blair again here.
Speaker B:What's the most exciting moment you've called.
Ami:In your broadcasting career and what made it so special?
John Kossas Jr.: , right after the pandemic in: John Kossas Jr.:The Fireflies had never had a walk off home run before.
John Kossas Jr.:And this kid from the Netherlands comes up to the plate named Darrell Collins, 19 years old, had three or four home runs that entire season and hit a walk off grand Islam in the 10th inning to beat the Myrtle Beach Pelicans in front of the only sellout crowd that year.
John Kossas Jr.:And it was reduced capacity because all the pandemic stuff, but it really felt like baseball returned that night.
John Kossas Jr.:So walk off grand slam obviously is about as exciting as it can get.
John Kossas Jr.:It's extra innings, which means it was a close game the entire time through.
John Kossas Jr.:But then to be able to do that, you know, in front of a loud crowd for the first time in 600, 700 days at that point, it really was special.
John Kossas Jr.:So the lefty Cowan steps in.
John Kossas Jr.:This is the situation every little kid dreams of.
John Kossas Jr.:Extra innings, bases loaded, a tie ball game, 19 year old out of the Netherlands getting delivered dream professionally in his second professional season.
John Kossas Jr.:Wright throws home and that's lifted to right field.
John Kossas Jr.:It's a walk off grad slam From Daryl Collins.
Ami:That's the ball game.
John Kossas Jr.:Columbia wins it.
John Kossas Jr.:Three Gatorade coolers on the field.
John Kossas Jr.:They're waiting for the lefty to come around.
John Kossas Jr.:The first walk off home run in Columbia Fireflies history.
John Kossas Jr.:He slams the helmet around third and there it is, the Fireflies with it.
John Kossas Jr.:Holy cow.
John Kossas Jr.:Darrell Collins with his third home run of the season.
Speaker B:That was special as.
Speaker B:And I'm so glad that that's the story that you told because Blair was actually at that game.
John Kossas Jr.:That's awesome.
Speaker B:She's my sister, so that was her first game here.
Speaker B:I brought her down to go see them and my niece Haley, and we sat right over here and they also had a foul ball hit.
Speaker B:The outpost one or the foul pole.
Speaker B:So that was a free Chick fil a sandwich that night.
Speaker B:So we got a free Chick fil a sandwich and then it was that walk off home run over there.
Speaker B:So your most exciting play.
Speaker B:She was actually here to experience.
John Kossas Jr.:Oh, and Blair, that is still the only ball that has hit that left foul pole off at Howard's back.
John Kossas Jr.:Lisandra Rodriguez hit one off the right field foul pole this year.
John Kossas Jr.:But those are the only two that have hit a foul pole in Fireflies history.
Speaker B:So I didn't know that.
Speaker B:Look at that.
Speaker B:We experienced a great game, Blair.
Speaker B:So part of coming to the baseball games is, and what's fun about them to me is the culture of a minor league game.
Speaker B:You've got all the games in between, the mini games, the things like that.
Speaker B:And in your book, you talk about some of that stuff, you know, Tonya Harding.
Speaker B:And we've had these conversations.
Speaker B:But Cheyenne from Irmo now has a question about the activities.
Speaker B:They are not her favorite.
John Kossas Jr.:Okay, maybe because I personally have always wondered why in the world there are so many activities in between all of like the game.
John Kossas Jr.:Like, they've always got to bring something out.
John Kossas Jr.:They've got to have people doing stuff.
John Kossas Jr.:I mean, it's entertaining.
John Kossas Jr.:But I'm also kind of like, why do we have to be entertained 247 during the game?
John Kossas Jr.:I mean, I know they probably can't answer that, but maybe they have an opinion on it because, like, I just, I just want to watch the game.
John Kossas Jr.:Like, I don't care to pay attention to all that other stuff.
Speaker B:So what do you do in between innings?
John Kossas Jr.:You chitchat about the game or you chitchat about other things?
Speaker B:It's like a break.
John Kossas Jr.:Yeah.
John Kossas Jr.:Or like you go use the bathroom, go get another beer, like, well, Cheyenne, you're a baseball traditionalist in the best way possible.
John Kossas Jr.:Thirty years ago, you would go to a game and there would be nothing.
John Kossas Jr.:Right.
John Kossas Jr.:People got upset when you did the wave 30 years ago, really.
John Kossas Jr.:But kind of as we've introduced more and more of these things as an industry, I really think it's helped people come to like it.
John Kossas Jr.:And I think the big thing is to remember that the average person that comes to this game is a family of three or a family of four.
John Kossas Jr.:And it's really hard to drag a six year old and keep them entertained for three hours.
John Kossas Jr.:So if you're able to have someone throw in T shirts to get the kid excited, if you're able to play a song and tell the kid today, dance along to that song, I think it's something that really adds to their experience and it gets families to come out more and more frequently.
John Kossas Jr.:But I think also it doesn't have to be kid orientated.
John Kossas Jr.:Some of my favorite promotions were back when I was in West Virginia, we did redneck night.
John Kossas Jr.:We did.
John Kossas Jr.:What was it called?
John Kossas Jr.:Something Monday.
John Kossas Jr.:It was mugshot.
John Kossas Jr.:Mugshot Monday.
John Kossas Jr.:There we go.
John Kossas Jr.:Where we had some guy hopped our fence and ended up stealing a bunch of stuff from the ballpark.
John Kossas Jr.:He got arrested wearing a power jersey.
John Kossas Jr.:Had some train tracks trying to sell it off.
John Kossas Jr.:So we allowed people to bring in mug shots to get free entered to the ballpark that next night.
John Kossas Jr.:So I think just, you know, that creativity, having fun, it's great for kids, but it's also just great for people who might not be the biggest baseball fan.
John Kossas Jr.:Not everyone's a season ticket member that'll go to 66 straight games.
John Kossas Jr.:But maybe having Bluey out is a reason that a family of four might want to come to Seger park and have some fun.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:Well, and I like the games.
Speaker B:I mean, I got to do one on my birthday.
Speaker B:Was that last year?
Speaker B:Not this past birthday.
Speaker B:Birthday before your 40th?
Speaker B:No.
Speaker B:It wasn't your 30th birthday?
Speaker B:No, no, not this past birthday.
Speaker B:Birthday before Barrett got me on the list.
Speaker B:So I got to play one of the games up on the dugouts.
Speaker B:I got to guess the Lowe's bag.
Speaker B:There we go.
Speaker B:Yeah, I was pretty excited because.
Speaker B:And unfortunately I picked it first.
Speaker B:And I was like, oh, I know what this is.
Speaker B:Like, I can feel that this is the winning bag.
Speaker B:And obviously the fun of the game.
Speaker B:I'm supposed to be like, let's go with a different one.
Speaker B:But I'm like, but the different one's a losing bag.
Speaker B:So I was like, I'm gonna keep it.
Speaker B:And so then I got my chips and salsa and popcorn or whatever's in the bags.
Speaker B:Big win, big winner.
Speaker B:All right, so Blair had a question about who's your favorite athlete to call?
Speaker B:Like, you just really enjoy watching them play and calling what they're doing.
John Kossas Jr.:That I've gotten to broadcast for.
John Kossas Jr.:It was O'Neal Cruz when I was back in West Virginia, 6'six 18 year old who was playing shortstop, kind of just a freak of nature athlete.
John Kossas Jr.:He got traded from the Dodgers to the Pittsburgh Pirates at the trade deadline.
John Kossas Jr.:The Pirates have a rule where if you haven't gotten major league playing time, you kind of have to look like you play for the Yankees.
John Kossas Jr.:So you can't have the long hair, you can't have the beard or anything like that.
John Kossas Jr.:And he came from the Dodger system, so he had these long dreads and didn't speak any English and showed up first day to batting practice and he.
John Kossas Jr.:In West Virginia, it would be like hitting a home run over that right field fence right there.
John Kossas Jr.:But then there was a street and he hit it over the street and then he hit it to a parking lot where there was a CVS and it was seven rows deep into the parking lot.
John Kossas Jr.:One of my game days was out there sitting on the phone, almost got hit by it.
John Kossas Jr.:Holy cow.
John Kossas Jr.:He called me and was like, who?
John Kossas Jr.:Who hit that ball?
John Kossas Jr.:There's no way.
John Kossas Jr.:That had to be 500ft.
John Kossas Jr.:And it was O'Neal Cruz.
John Kossas Jr.:And he had a flair for when you needed something to happen.
John Kossas Jr.:He made it happen.
John Kossas Jr.:Super strong arm.
John Kossas Jr.:In fact, now that he's in the majors, we can measure how strong it is.
John Kossas Jr.:This last year he had two of the strongest cast throws for a fielder in all of Major League Baseball and has had some of the best exit velocities.
John Kossas Jr.:So it wasn't just like seeing it at the single A level with this 18, 19 year old.
John Kossas Jr.:It was now watching him in the majors going, man, this kid grew up and is still outperforming everyone else.
Speaker B:That's really neat.
Speaker B:So in a dream world where you know it's not reality, if you could pick a player that you could call their game for, like you could call anybody that you want to pass present, doesn't matter, who would it be?
John Kossas Jr.:That'd be tough.
John Kossas Jr.:A couple would pop off pretty quickly.
John Kossas Jr.:I think it'd be really cool to see Satchel Page in his prime.
John Kossas Jr.:Prime before he got to get integrated.
John Kossas Jr.:Fantastic pitcher.
John Kossas Jr.:Ended up pitching for the Cleveland Indians back in the 40s, but really didn't start pitching in the majors until he was well past his prime because of segregation.
John Kossas Jr.:So I think it'd be really cool to be able to call him, you know, in an ideal world where baseball was together, not segregated.
John Kossas Jr.:In his prime, being able to strike out guys like a Babe Ruth or strike out like a Mickey Mantle, that way you could say, hey, this guy really was one of the best pitchers of all time.
John Kossas Jr.:Jim Tomey would be really cool just because he was my childhood idol growing up.
John Kossas Jr.:And then Francisco Lindor kind of really got me into baseball.
John Kossas Jr.:The Indians drafted him my senior year of high school in the first round.
John Kossas Jr.:So then when I was in college, whenever he made it to a new team, I would make it my goal to visit that team.
John Kossas Jr.:So I started off in Mahoning Valley in short season, and I went to Mahoning Valley for a game so I could see him.
John Kossas Jr.:Then Lake county was only 10 minutes from my house, so I went there.
John Kossas Jr.:And then when I made it up to akron, it was 45 minutes from my house.
John Kossas Jr.:So I went there and got to see him at each step until he made it to Cleveland.
John Kossas Jr.:And then I started working, or I started working in minor league baseball two or three years after that.
Speaker B:So that's really neat.
Speaker B:So you already talked about the competition for broadcasters and that it's a competitive job market.
Speaker B:And is it.
Speaker B:Is it like a job market, though?
Speaker B:So can.
Speaker B:Can you be traded to a different team, like, or is it literally you just go and apply someplace and that's where you work?
Speaker B:And then at the end you're like, all right, here's my two weeks notice.
Speaker B:I'm going to go work at this other place.
Speaker B:Do you get poached?
Speaker B:Like, is this.
Speaker B:Is it like a job like in the traditional sense, or is it more like being in the world of athletics?
John Kossas Jr.:Both.
John Kossas Jr.:So there have been broadcasters who have been traded before.
John Kossas Jr.:That would not happen on, like, a minor league team today with the way that it's set up.
John Kossas Jr.:But I can't remember the guy's name, but some guy in like the 50s was traded for an actual player.
John Kossas Jr.:Only broadcaster be traded for an actual player.
Ami:I'm going to interrupt here so I can give some context to this question on broadcasters being traded.
Ami:It looks like the situation that John was referring to was a broadcaster by the name of Ernie Harwell.
Ami: In the late: Ami:Branch Rickey was impressed with Harwell and believed he could be a substitute for Dodgers announcer Red Barber, who was apparently suffering from a bleeding Ulcer.
Ami:In order to get the Crackers to agree to let Harwell break his contract so he could call for the Dodgers, the Dodgers traded catcher Cliff Dapper to the Crackers.
Ami:I also came across several other very bizarre trades that have happened in baseball history.
Ami: casting, I'll save that for a: Ami:So back to our regularly scheduled programming.
John Kossas Jr.:So that has happened.
John Kossas Jr.: It wouldn't happen in: John Kossas Jr.:I apply, I've had people try to post me before.
John Kossas Jr.:I'm not going to say their team names publicly, but I've certainly had people say, hey, this offer is open if you'd like to leave X spot or Y spot.
John Kossas Jr.: s a lot more popular prior to: John Kossas Jr.:They used to just fly everyone in.
John Kossas Jr.:So every major league team and every minor league team had executives out there.
John Kossas Jr.:And so they would have all these people kind of fly into Orlando or Nashville or D.C.
John Kossas Jr.:or Vegas or whatever.
John Kossas Jr.:And for four days, every job opening that could be made public would be made public.
John Kossas Jr.:And all these people would interview against each other.
John Kossas Jr.:And I think when I got my Hagerstown, Maryland job, my interview was 2am or 3am in a sports book.
John Kossas Jr.:And we had some beers or I.
Speaker B:Was very concerned for you at 2am but if it's over a beer, it's fine.
John Kossas Jr.:Yeah.
John Kossas Jr.:And then I had a job interview at 9am where they had it at a bar and you had some beers.
John Kossas Jr.:Winter meetings, there just wasn't a time.
John Kossas Jr.:It's like vacation.
Speaker B:Beers all day long.
Speaker B:Yeah, got it.
John Kossas Jr.:Or like in D.C.
John Kossas Jr.:i remember this guy invited me to an oyster bar for an interview and I went to the wrong oyster bar.
John Kossas Jr.:And then I went to another one and he was sitting there and he was like, okay, well here's where we're at from like a drinks perspective.
John Kossas Jr.:He's like, you gotta play catch up.
John Kossas Jr.:So it was almost like doing the airport test where people are like, okay, not only does your real work, not only does your resume work for me, but we work 15 hour days in the summer a lot of times.
John Kossas Jr.:So is this going to be someone that I can enjoy hanging around when we've got six straight days in the summer and we're here from 10am until 10, 11pm or is this going to be a stick in the mud?
Speaker B:So you're not a stick in the mud?
John Kossas Jr.:Hopefully not.
Speaker B:He's not a stick in the mud.
Speaker B:I've known John for a couple years now.
Speaker B:All right, So I know we're getting close on time.
Speaker B:I'm going to start wrapping this up.
Speaker B:We started out kind of talking about where sports broadcasting started.
Speaker B:Where is it going?
John Kossas Jr.:That's a great question.
John Kossas Jr.:With a lot of the regional sports networks going bankrupt and seeing deals like the Amazon deal for Thursday Night Football have a ton of success, certainly envision it being on streaming more.
John Kossas Jr.:But then how do they monetize?
John Kossas Jr.:That is going to be a fantastic question.
John Kossas Jr.:You're seeing a lot more physically branded things now.
John Kossas Jr.:So the baseball helmets that said Strauss during the playoffs, that was, from what I understand, a very, very lucrative partnership deal.
John Kossas Jr.: you look at baseball in like: John Kossas Jr.:Today in park revenue is less than 30% of a baseball team's total revenue.
John Kossas Jr.:Most of that revenue comes from social and broadcast rights.
John Kossas Jr.:The Yankees being able to sign guys like Aaron Judge to super long contracts or wherever Juan Soto ends up signing this off season, that's probably going to be because of a team's broadcast revenue or because of something cool they've done on social that's allowed them to monetize social a little bit better through their digital revenues.
John Kossas Jr.:So it's less about like, hey, let's make sure we've got 35,000 people in the park tonight spending $75 on a ticket and $50 on whatever and more on, hey, can we have a $300 million broadcast deal this year?
Speaker B:Right?
John Kossas Jr.:So the real thing about it is when you're switching from cable and that guaranteed money because cable packages work where, you know, if you have an $80 cable bill, $2 of that's going towards CBS.
John Kossas Jr.:And then CBS pays the NFL a dollar of that to guarantee their games or whatever.
John Kossas Jr.:So now when you've got streaming services, they're probably going to be paying per event.
John Kossas Jr.:Is that going to be more lucrative or less lucrative is the real question.
Ami:So, breaking away from my chat with John again to talk about some of these numbers.
Ami: billion in revenue in: Ami:As John indicated, revenue for the MLB is generated by several sources, including broadcast rights, merchandise sales, ticket sales and sponsorships.
Ami: of MLB TV deals in the US for: Ami: wn the most valuable teams of: Ami:I won't get into some of those numbers so as not to stray too far from our current rabbit hole, but since such a large part of revenue is from broadcasting rights, much of the information in the article is relevant to our subject.
Ami:According to this article, the local media rights for many MLB teams are under serious pressure.
Ami:Forbes reports that as an example, the Arizona Diamondbacks and San Diego Padres both received less revenue than expected from their regional sports networks or RSNs, after Diamond Sports went into bankruptcy and the MLB took over their local rights.
Ami:The article goes on to talk about While there is decline in the revenue from some of the RSNs, there are some individual franchises which boast really lucrative media deals.
Ami: years until: Ami: into some of the numbers from: Ami:But for now, back to my conversation with John.
Speaker B:We are now kind of to the unscripted part.
Speaker B:So we talked about the fact that you probably won't be traded.
Speaker B:Probably doesn't happen at this level unless.
John Kossas Jr.:I really fall off.
John Kossas Jr.:Well, whatever the kid from the rookie did, right, If I break my arm and start throwing 99, maybe I get traded at the Yankees.
Speaker B:We'll keep an eye out for that.
Speaker B:So what does a future look like?
Speaker B:So you started at the single A level.
Speaker B:We're here at single A.
Speaker B:Before this you were at single A.
Speaker B:Like, do you move up, like, or is this good, like for you personally as a sports broadcaster?
Speaker B:Like, are there ambitions of going up to different levels the same way as a minor league player would want to go up to, you know, up the ranks and get to the show?
Speaker B:Is that the same thing for someone like you?
John Kossas Jr.:Yeah, the same and different.
John Kossas Jr.:Right.
John Kossas Jr.:So the same of the higher you go, the more people are going to be watching the larger market it typically is.
John Kossas Jr.:Right.
John Kossas Jr.:Like Indianapolis is certainly a larger market than Columbia.
John Kossas Jr.:Right.
John Kossas Jr.:So.
John Kossas Jr.:Or even Charlotte, since that's the closest Triple A team to here.
John Kossas Jr.:But so there's always the want for more people to be watching you and obviously if there's more stuff being seen, then there's more money in it and stuff like that.
John Kossas Jr.:So that's obviously something that I think everyone strives to do, but it's got to be the right move and it's got to make sense When I first broke into minor league baseball, I said I'd give myself four years to get a full time job with benefits.
John Kossas Jr.:And the rationale behind that was I was 23 years old.
John Kossas Jr.:So that four year mark was when I would have to start paying for my own insurance if it wasn't for an employer picking and for the kids listening at home.
John Kossas Jr.:I had to look it up because it was close.
John Kossas Jr.:It's like $600 a month, so you certainly want to find an employer to help you pay for that.
John Kossas Jr.:But when I was kind of going through all that stuff, I said, okay, how am I going to break in first?
John Kossas Jr.:I'm going to get just any internships.
John Kossas Jr.: So: John Kossas Jr.:2018 was, I said, I want a broadcast specific internship, right?
John Kossas Jr.:And at any point, if I didn't hit these goals, I was saying, okay, maybe it's time to look back.
John Kossas Jr.:I remember like straight out of college, I had a couple talk radio job offers.
John Kossas Jr.:I had an MMJ job offer, but I specifically wanted to try the baseball thing.
John Kossas Jr.:So I said, okay, let's try and get through and get to this broadcast specific internship, which I got after having the foot in the door in West Virginia.
John Kossas Jr.:So that's why I spent two years there.
John Kossas Jr.:And then I said, okay, I've learned for two years, it's time to see if I can run the show by myself.
John Kossas Jr.: nt from a team that drew like: John Kossas Jr.:They drew like 150 a night.
John Kossas Jr.:And so a lot of quiet ballparks, but fantastic staff there.
John Kossas Jr.:And, you know, it was just the difference between Columbia and Hagerstown is money in, right?
John Kossas Jr.:So it's, you know, Columbia has 30 front office staff members who are all making sales calls or who are all doing marketing initiatives to make things really fun here.
John Kossas Jr.:Hagerstown had fun.
John Kossas Jr.:So you're just not able to pour as much effort in every game.
John Kossas Jr.:So there are some games where 30 people come out and you're calling a game, and more people are listening on the radio by far than are physically in the stands.
John Kossas Jr.:So when I was in Hagerstown, I knew it was a temporary thing.
John Kossas Jr.:I was happy I had number one job.
John Kossas Jr.:I thought I did a really good job there.
John Kossas Jr.:And I said, okay, now I need to find a market that I can be in for a while.
John Kossas Jr.:That's when Columbia came right in time for a worldwide pandemic.
John Kossas Jr.:So I moved to Columbia.
Speaker B:Terrible time by the way, to enter the job market.
John Kossas Jr.:Yeah.
John Kossas Jr.: ed to Colombia in February of: Speaker B:Yeah.
John Kossas Jr.:Fortunately, we have a fantastic job, have a fantastic ownership group, have a fantastic leadership team here that really helped us out throughout the pandemic, and we made sure that everyone was going to make it through the pandemic together.
John Kossas Jr.:And, you know, I think when I first got here, I said five to seven years was kind of where I was looking at before.
John Kossas Jr.:I really wanted to look at those AAA and, you know, maybe one day down the road, major league opportunities.
John Kossas Jr.:And, you know, it's one of those things where it's.
John Kossas Jr.:I'm really comfortable here, got a great setup, I've got, you know, a ballpark that draws.
John Kossas Jr.:So it's always exciting to be here.
John Kossas Jr.:But, you know, if the right opportunity were to come along, it'd be really hard to say no.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So what's a team that you would never want to call for, like, just for your own personal, like.
Speaker B:So for me, obviously it'd be the Cardinals, but, like, I just don't think I could do it.
Speaker B:But is there any team that you're just like, no, totally not out.
Speaker B:If they're like, we will give you $6 million to call these games.
John Kossas Jr.:So what's funny is I feel like some of the Carolina League rivalries, for me, hit home more than the major league rivalries.
John Kossas Jr.:So, like Cleveland, you know, they ran the AL Central for the first 15 years of my life, and Detroit was really bad for a while, and Minnesota was really bad for a while, and the White Sox are still really bad, and the Royals go up and down.
John Kossas Jr.:So Cleveland doesn't have that true rival.
John Kossas Jr.:Like, you've got Yankees, Red Sox or Dodgers, Giants.
Speaker B:Right.
John Kossas Jr.:So there's no baseball team I grew up hating.
John Kossas Jr.:And I think now I honestly watch a lot of baseball and I'm looking for guys that I've called before, wherever they may be.
John Kossas Jr.:Because it's not just Pittsburgh, Washington and Kansas City.
John Kossas Jr.:Right.
John Kossas Jr.:Like, Walter Pennington got traded to the Texas Rangers this year.
John Kossas Jr.:So, you know, like, if I can see one of my former guys playing at the major league level and it's 9:00 at night, Fireflies are done.
John Kossas Jr.:I'll pop it on MLBT and root for that guy specifically.
John Kossas Jr.:So I don't think I have a major league team that I wouldn't call for, but I think there are certainly some minor league situations where I just wouldn't go there.
John Kossas Jr.:There have been a couple places that have offered Me a gig where it's just like, man, that would be so much more difficult than what I have currently in Columbia.
Speaker B:So, guys, John wrote this book called Play by Play from the Minors.
Speaker B:We talked about it a little bit at the beginning.
Speaker B:I have started reading it.
Speaker B:Not this copy though.
Speaker B:This is a copy that is a giveaway for one of you.
Speaker B:Listeners will post details on social media and everything.
Speaker B:It is signed.
Speaker B:Look at that.
Speaker B:And it didn't even get signed today.
Speaker B: th of: Speaker B:Because I bought this at your book signing at All Good Books.
Speaker B:And just we never have done this episode yet anyway, so I've got it here.
Speaker B:But in this, John profiles.
Speaker B:Oh, how many?
John Kossas Jr.:Thirteen.
Speaker B:Oh, 13 different broadcasters.
Speaker B:And so tell us a little bit about this before we close out tonight.
John Kossas Jr.:Yeah, this was my big pandemic project.
John Kossas Jr.:This was.
John Kossas Jr.:I moved across the country and I was told we were going to shelter in place for.
John Kossas Jr.:What was it, three weeks?
John Kossas Jr.:Was the original three weeks or something?
John Kossas Jr.:Yeah.
John Kossas Jr.:And so I said, sweet, in three weeks I'm going to visit as many parks around Columbia that I can.
John Kossas Jr.:I'm going to go camping a couple times and see what happens.
John Kossas Jr.:And then, you know, after a couple months of that, I had visited all the closed places to visit.
John Kossas Jr.:I had hiked wherever I could hike.
John Kossas Jr.:And I said, okay, I gotta figure out something to keep myself busy, something that's challenging.
John Kossas Jr.:And I looked at the AAA level and I believe it was seven AAA broadcasters out of the 30 had written a book.
John Kossas Jr.:So I said, ah, that might be a cool thing to do.
John Kossas Jr.:And I obviously know a lot of broadcasters, but I wanted to be able to network a little bit more while we were all kind of staying stationary.
John Kossas Jr.:So I started off and I talked to a couple people I knew and then I asked them if they knew of anyone they thought would be someone that would be a good fit to talk and tell some stories.
John Kossas Jr.:And I think it was only three or four months of actually writing the book.
John Kossas Jr.:Then it was finding a publisher and editing the book.
John Kossas Jr.:And then the publisher wanted me to add two more chapters and 10,000 more words.
John Kossas Jr.:So it was rewriting and starting to get through that process again.
John Kossas Jr.: n it finally got published in: Speaker B:Well, for any of you guys who are sports fans, it reads really easily.
Speaker B:You are a good writer, so good job on that.
Speaker B:I'm not, like I said, I've started.
Speaker B: all the way through it since: Speaker B:I don't know what happened.
Speaker B:But anyhow, so it does read really easily.
Speaker B:It's very interesting.
Speaker B:You hear some really neat stories in here.
Speaker B:And so if you're a lucky winner, then I will get this to you.
Speaker B:If you're not, then you can pick it up on Amazon.
John Kossas Jr.:Amazon, McFarland Books, Barnes and Noble Online Books, a million online.
John Kossas Jr.:So plenty of different options depending on if you're a member of any of those and you get a special discount.
Speaker B:All right, so I really appreciate you doing this with me.
Speaker B:I know that we've talked about doing it for a hot minute now, and obviously I love being out here at Sacra Park.
Speaker B:You know, I'm not a full season member, but I'm a partial season member.
Speaker B:And then I always pick up extra tickets throughout the season because I just.
Speaker B:I love being here.
Speaker B:It makes me happy.
Speaker B:All my stress melts away.
Speaker B:I love watching games.
Speaker B:We sit down there in the first row, right behind the home plate.
Speaker B:Barrett whistles up at John, who sits up in the booth behind us.
Speaker B:But I love being here, and I'm so glad that y'all made your acquaintanceship so that we can make our acquaintanceship.
Speaker B:And then, you know, now we're friends.
John Kossas Jr.:Absolutely.
Speaker B:Who foal together on Tuesdays.
Speaker B:But it's a fun place to be and you have a very cool job, so I'm pretty jealous of that.
Speaker B:But we're gonna go ahead and close out for tonight.
Speaker B:Is there anything else that we didn't touch on that you kind of hope that we would or anything else that you'd like to say?
John Kossas Jr.:Well, first, just thanks so much for having me.
John Kossas Jr.:And for those of you who might not be able to go to a Fireflies game but still want to see a mii, you can certainly tune into our broadcast and she's always available.
Speaker B:That's true.
Speaker B:You can see me when you see.
John Kossas Jr.:The batter, so you can.
John Kossas Jr.:You can check out the Fireflies.
Speaker B:And they would hear you.
John Kossas Jr.:Yeah, you would hear me while doing that.
John Kossas Jr.:So you could check out the Fireflies.
John Kossas Jr.:See your favorite podcaster.
John Kossas Jr.:It all works.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:All right, well, then that is all I've got.
Ami:So thank you for tuning in with me, my Wonderlings, as we got to go down the rabbit hole of sports broadcasting with John Kosas Jr.
Ami:Voice of the Columbia Fireflies single, a affiliate of the Kansas City Royals.
Ami:Until next time, be safe, be kind, and stay curious.
John Kossas Jr.:The welcome to Wonderland podcast is copyrighted by Ami Bland and is part of Big Media.
John Kossas Jr.: s podcast was recorded at the: John Kossas Jr.:Subscribe to this podcast Wherever you get your podcasts, please follow, like and share this podcast.
John Kossas Jr.:Find welcome to Wonderland on Facebook at welcome to Wonderland, the podcast and on X, the app formerly known as Twitter.
John Kossas Jr.:At WonderlandPod, check out behind the Scenes Moments and other videos on TikTok WonderlandPod.
John Kossas Jr.:And finally, check out Pictures, additional information and go further down the rabbit hole on our website at www.wtwlpod.com.
John Kossas Jr.:to submit corrections, additional information, or requests for the episodes, please email the hostess at welcome to wonderlandthepodmail.com SA.
Speaker B:I can't even do that.
Speaker B:And I read it every single time.
Speaker B:He didn't stutter on a gnat flew in my eye.
Speaker B:But like, I stutter.
Speaker B:I'm like.
Speaker B:And you're like, I've never seen this text before in my life, but I'm just going to do it flawlessly.
Speaker B:I guess that's what you do for a living.
